The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[shaz619]

I dunno. I just think Cody against a heel would be 10x more interesting. Face v face matches feuds rarely deliver. Because you have to dig deep to find a reason for two good guys to fight. And in 2022 we've all gone past two guys fighting over who is the best. This strikes me as a match more suited to SummerSlam than Mania.

They don’t but can if you have two major stars which we’ve seen in history and the heel/baby dynamic is rarely respected if we are being honest and the fans disregard it during PPV’s especially smark towns and city’s. If we look at Seth for example, he is a heel yet is so over with the smark crowd and he predominately hasn’t eliminated his baby face spots, when these guys get in the ring, from a psychology POV in the modern era, the match dynamic just flows from spot to spot and the audience eats that, its done in a way which is largely formulaic. This is why I feel its harmless and with the short turn around time between when Cody hypothetically is expected to return and his match at mania, I don’t think this is a bad choice. Alternatively, what do you think they will do with Cody? I don’t feel the heat in a world title programme with Reigns. Do you remember back in 02 when Hunter was out and came back to win the RR? the company really hyped his return quiet a bit and put a great deal of effort into it, when Vince was around they said Cody’s return would be treated in the same light, but that hasn’t been the case with Hunter taking the reigns. But lets see what they do in the new year and if his return will get the golden shovel treatment.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

They don’t but can if you have two major stars which we’ve seen in history and the heel/baby dynamic is rarely respected if we are being honest and the fans disregard it during PPV’s especially smark towns and city’s. If we look at Seth for example, he is a heel yet is so over with the smark crowd and he predominately hasn’t eliminated his baby face spots, when these guys get in the ring, from a psychology POV in the modern era, the match dynamic just flows from spot to spot and the audience eats that, its done in a way which is largely formulaic. This is why I feel its harmless and with the short turn around time between when Cody hypothetically is expected to return and his match at mania, I don’t think this is a bad choice. Alternatively, what do you think they will do with Cody? I don’t feel the heat in a world title programme with Reigns. Do you remember back in 02 when Hunter was out and came back to win the RR? the company really hyped his return quiet a bit and put a great deal of effort into it, when Vince was around they said Cody’s return would be treated in the same light, but that hasn’t been the case with Hunter taking the reigns. But lets see what they do in the new year and if his return will get the golden shovel treatment.

Yeah I mean it does not exactly feel like they are going in the direction of Cody v Reigns right now. Because the way I see it, this current Bloodline storyline is going to continue till atleast February with Roman's heavy involvement. After that they can branch out to Zayn/KO v The Usos. And with Elimination Chamber being in Montreal you just know its likely going to be Reigns v Zayn or Reigns v KO.

So I don't know if two months is enough to build that match. We'll have to see I guess. I think they are probably waiting on The Rock, and whether he will be available or not. Off the top of my head, I can't really think of a big money match for Cody. Besides the one against Roman. So I don't really have a solution either.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

If HHH wants to restore some prestige back to the IC title he should book Gunter v Lesnar for the belt. Would be one of the biggest mid-card matches in the history of WrestleMania, and a guaranteed banger.

 

[shaz619]

Yeah I mean it does not exactly feel like they are going in the direction of Cody v Reigns right now. Because the way I see it, this current Bloodline storyline is going to continue till atleast February with Roman's heavy involvement. After that they can branch out to Zayn/KO v The Usos. And with Elimination Chamber being in Montreal you just know its likely going to be Reigns v Zayn or Reigns v KO.

So I don't know if two months is enough to build that match. We'll have to see I guess. I think they are probably waiting on The Rock, and whether he will be available or not. Off the top of my head, I can't really think of a big money match for Cody. Besides the one against Roman. So I don't really have a solution either.

It wouldn’t shock me if Reigns v Zayn is pencilled in for mania but at the very least I expect that match to be a stadium show. Reigns v KO could be the premier match to at mania, these two will have huge plans because I understand both KO and Zayn are members of the HHH Kiss my behind club

I don’t think The Rock will work this year, but I wouldn’t be surprised by an appearance to build towards something bigger down the line. If The Rock was going to work, I bet we wouldn’t hear the end of it.

 

[shaz619]

If HHH wants to restore some prestige back to the IC title he should book Gunter v Lesnar for the belt. Would be one of the biggest mid-card matches in the history of WrestleMania, and a guaranteed banger.

That match would be mental!

Btw there is a clip on social media of AJ/Gunther working during a house show and it looked like a real banger! I didn’t watch the entire clip because I hope they work during a televised event, how about that to? Gunther v AJ for the title!!

At this point, is there anyone Gunther can’t have a great match with? what a performer

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It wouldn’t shock me if Reigns v Zayn is pencilled in for mania but at the very least I expect that match to be a stadium show. Reigns v KO could be the premier match to at mania, these two will have huge plans because I understand both KO and Zayn are members of the HHH Kiss my behind club

I don’t think The Rock will work this year, but I wouldn’t be surprised by an appearance to build towards something bigger down the line. If The Rock was going to work, I bet we wouldn’t hear the end of it.

The only issue with Reigns v KO is that we have seen it too many times, and we will probably see it again at Royal Rumble. I would love nothing more than for Zayn v Reigns to main-event Mania. But somehow that feels too improbable...even with HHH in-charge and Vince out of the picture.

If Rock doesn't work Mania, it should be Cody v Reigns. Keeping the belt on Reigns for another year is madness.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That match would be mental!

Btw there is a clip on social media of AJ/Gunther working during a house show and it looked like a real banger! I didn’t watch the entire clip because I hope they work during a televised event, how about that to? Gunther v AJ for the title!!

At this point, is there anyone Gunther can’t have a great match with? what a performer

Would be a great match. And a feud that they can do immediately after Mania because that's when the next WWE Draft is supposed to be. They can even involve the OC and Imperium. You could do tag matches and 6-man tags leading up to AJ v Gunther.

Can't really think of anyone. He's truly one of a kind. But he seems to thrive when he is in the ring with smaller, more athletic guys.

Amazing to think that until a few years ago he said that he would never move to the US. I'm glad he took the boatload of money that WWE probably offered him.

 

[shaz619]

The only issue with Reigns v KO is that we have seen it too many times, and we will probably see it again at Royal Rumble. I would love nothing more than for Zayn v Reigns to main-event Mania. But somehow that feels too improbable...even with HHH in-charge and Vince out of the picture.

If Rock doesn't work Mania, it should be Cody v Reigns. Keeping the belt on Reigns for another year is madness.

They’ve done the long run before and it all depends on what the feedback has been during live events, if he was to continue you need a strong story to. Cody’s time will come, if he is that guy then they should be selling it hard post RR; as it stands, the momentum and face potential is with Zayn, I would put him down as another strong contender for the RR. I agree Reigns/KO doesn’t have the same appeal.

 

[shaz619]

Would be a great match. And a feud that they can do immediately after Mania because that's when the next WWE Draft is supposed to be. They can even involve the OC and Imperium. You could do tag matches and 6-man tags leading up to AJ v Gunther.

Can't really think of anyone. He's truly one of a kind. But he seems to thrive when he is in the ring with smaller, more athletic guys.

Amazing to think that until a few years ago he said that he would never move to the US. I'm glad he took the boatload of money that WWE probably offered him.

Whoever he wrestles I just love his style, truly one of a kind right now. The Lesnar match is very likely, wherever it happens. It would be great if we got 3 matches out of them but that’s being greedy on my side

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Whoever he wrestles I just love his style, truly one of a kind right now. The Lesnar match is very likely, wherever it happens. It would be great if we got 3 matches out of them but that’s being greedy on my side

Oh yeah fore sure. I mean you can't just have that match and leave it. Its a match that must be revisited atleast three times. Preferably at the big PPVs, because it is just that kind of a match.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

They’ve done the long run before and it all depends on what the feedback has been during live events, if he was to continue you need a strong story to. Cody’s time will come, if he is that guy then they should be selling it hard post RR; as it stands, the momentum and face potential is with Zayn, I would put him down as another strong contender for the RR. I agree Reigns/KO doesn’t have the same appeal.

I mean I would lose it if that match happened. And if you have that match, I don't see how Zayn doesn't win. But having seen the WWE product for such a long time, I don't know if I'm ready to believe that it will happen. Call me a cynic, but it is the WWE at the end of the day.

Needless to say though, I would be over the moon if I am proven wrong.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I'm very skeptical of a Starks v Jericho feud. Primarily because I can't think of anyone besides Moxley (during the early days of AEW) and maybe Cody, that have come out of a feud with Chris Jericho, better than they were going in.

Eddie Kingston was perhaps the worst casualty. A guy who was one of the most over guys in the company and someone who was morphing into that Dusty-esque average joe babyface before he entered into an unnecessarily long and drawn-out feud with Jericho that destroyed his momentum and relegated him to the bottom of the card. Now, he can't even get on TV despite being one of the best promos in the business and his booking has arguably been the worst of any of the guys on the roster. And that includes FTR.

A feud with Jericho should be something to look forward to for any young talent. But the way Jericho's recent feuds have played out, you get the indication that he more interested in getting some shine off the young guy than he is in putting some shine on him.

It's also very curious that he always has to enter into a feud with someone that is slowly starting to gain traction with the fans. He's done this with Orange Cassidy, MJF, Eddie Kingston and now Ricky Starks.


I'm glad Starks got to blister him in his promo though. There were some great lines in there. He may not be on the level of MJF, Mox or a well-booked and motivated Eddie Kingston, but he is definitely one of the best promos in the company for me, who is getting better day by day.

 

[shaz619]

I'm very skeptical of a Starks v Jericho feud. Primarily because I can't think of anyone besides Moxley (during the early days of AEW) and maybe Cody, that have come out of a feud with Chris Jericho, better than they were going in.

Eddie Kingston was perhaps the worst casualty. A guy who was one of the most over guys in the company and someone who was morphing into that Dusty-esque average joe babyface before he entered into an unnecessarily long and drawn-out feud with Jericho that destroyed his momentum and relegated him to the bottom of the card. Now, he can't even get on TV despite being one of the best promos in the business and his booking has arguably been the worst of any of the guys on the roster. And that includes FTR.

A feud with Jericho should be something to look forward to for any young talent. But the way Jericho's recent feuds have played out, you get the indication that he more interested in getting some shine off the young guy than he is in putting some shine on him.

It's also very curious that he always has to enter into a feud with someone that is slowly starting to gain traction with the fans. He's done this with Orange Cassidy, MJF, Eddie Kingston and now Ricky Starks.


I'm glad Starks got to blister him in his promo though. There were some great lines in there. He may not be on the level of MJF, Mox or a well-booked and motivated Eddie Kingston, but he is definitely one of the best promos in the company for me, who is getting better day by day.

Jericho always stands tall, I can’t remember the last time he did the job in a rubber match against a non main event talent ? defeats the objective of his vet status, even friggin Shawn Michaels went out of his way to elevate others in the 2000’s, they didn’t come out looking worse off.

I haven’t watched this since the MJF/Starks match so will check out the videos.

Btw I read Wardlow was done dirty this week? there are some rumours that the reason for this is him speaking out in favour of Punk when the Ellite were trying to establish the narrative that Punk got Cobana fired

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Jericho always stands tall, I can’t remember the last time he did the job in a rubber match against a non main event talent ? defeats the objective of his vet status, even friggin Shawn Michaels went out of his way to elevate others in the 2000’s, they didn’t come out looking worse off.

I haven’t watched this since the MJF/Starks match so will check out the videos.

Btw I read Wardlow was done dirty this week? there are some rumours that the reason for this is him speaking out in favour of Punk when the Ellite were trying to establish the narrative that Punk got Cobana fired

I haven't watched Dynamite yet but that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Dax mentioned on his new podcast recently that Punk used to take out MJF, Hobbs, Wardlow, Cash for dinner all the time. And its certainly abundantly clear at this point that the Bucks had their camp which included all their like-minded cohorts, and Punk had his camp. Which probably wasn't a formal camp, but included guys like Wardlow, FTR, MJF, Starks...guys who had a similar vision for what wrestling should be.

Wardlow to his credit is a really diplomatic guy. I have seen alot of his interviews. (a) he always tries to maintain kayfabe, which I always appreciate, (b) he never goes out and talks s**t about anyone. So even if he defended Punk it likely was not by burying The Elite. That being said, if there is anyone who deserves to be blamed for sinking Wardlow, its Tony Khan. He has the single biggest hand in killing Wardlow's momentum with his garbage booking. Wardlow was white-hot coming out of that feud with MJF. And the first thing that this idiot did was book him in a joke match with 15 security guards. Even if The Elite had something to do with whatever happened to Wardlow this week, it was probably the finishing touch.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] what do you make of this? https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/...s-plea-he-and-elite-find-way-make-it-work-duh

Too early to dream of Punk coming back as the biggest heel in the business with molten lava heat?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I mean I know The Elite are petty and childish and immature and bunch of man children. But this would actually be the greatest thing for their careers. It would not only bring them unprecedented attention and make them a money-drawing group for the first time in their pathetic lives, but they would also be the heroic babyfaces in this feud. Heck you could add FTR to the mix and make it a faction vs. faction feud.

I'm still not going to put my money on both parties working it out. Just because The Elite are little children that are more than happy to play in their little sandbox and not draw any money or bring in any new fans. Because at the end of the day they still have that indierific mindset of wanting to appeal only to their fanbase.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Hearing Roman vs Rock is a done deal for Mania. With Dwayne out of Black Adam and DCU, think he'll definitely have more time now. And now that his own studio produces most of his films, the injury isn't going to be a factor in him not doing a match.

They haven't aired any Cody promo or update in a few months, which means he's likely coming back for Rumble.

Walter vs Drew is a feud I can't wait for.

My guess is Sami will be the iron man in the Rumble.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Hearing Roman vs Rock is a done deal for Mania. With Dwayne out of Black Adam and DCU, think he'll definitely have more time now. And now that his own studio produces most of his films, the injury isn't going to be a factor in him not doing a match.

They haven't aired any Cody promo or update in a few months, which means he's likely coming back for Rumble.

Walter vs Drew is a feud I can't wait for.

My guess is Sami will be the iron man in the Rumble.

There are rumors swirling that both belts could be defended in different matches. Seth v Cody or Drew is rumored for Night 1 and Roman v Rock or Cody is rumored for Night 2. Will be interesting to see how they get one of the belts off Roman if these rumors do have some truth to them. I still don't think that The Rock is a lock for Mania. Because its not just about him being available for that week. He also need ample time to train and get in ring shape. As great as he looks, he is still 50 and hasn't wrestled a full-length match in close to a decade.

Drew v Gunther is a dream match for sure. I'd love to see those two get in the ring and just beat the absolute tar out of each other. And I'm sure it will happen sooner rather than later.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Hearing Roman vs Rock is a done deal for Mania. With Dwayne out of Black Adam and DCU, think he'll definitely have more time now. And now that his own studio produces most of his films, the injury isn't going to be a factor in him not doing a match.

They haven't aired any Cody promo or update in a few months, which means he's likely coming back for Rumble.

Walter vs Drew is a feud I can't wait for.

My guess is Sami will be the iron man in the Rumble.

Pretty good bet I reckon.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

As rubbish as RAW has been lately, I am pretty psyched for the Rumble and WrestleMania season. I think its kinda impossible not to be.

Next year's Rumble in particular has the potential to be off-the-charts.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

As rubbish as RAW has been lately, I am pretty psyched for the Rumble and WrestleMania season. I think its kinda impossible not to be.

Next year's Rumble in particular has the potential to be off-the-charts.

I am getting my hopes up cause WWE has a knack of disappointing fans.

But yes, Rumble is the most exciting time of the year. More so than Mania IMO. 2013,20142015,2016,2017,2018 all could have been much better rumbles yet were disappointing. People seem to love 2018 rumble cause Nakamura won, but I found it pretty dull tbh.

2020, 2001 and 2006 are amongst my favorites.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I am getting my hopes up cause WWE has a knack of disappointing fans.

But yes, Rumble is the most exciting time of the year. More so than Mania IMO. 2013,20142015,2016,2017,2018 all could have been much better rumbles yet were disappointing. People seem to love 2018 rumble cause Nakamura won, but I found it pretty dull tbh.

2020, 2001 and 2006 are amongst my favorites.

Yeah I concur on all 3. I'm a BIG fan of 2004 too. That for me is an example of a near perfect Rumble. But also agree that most from the modern era have been woefully disappointing.

 

[shaz619]

I haven't watched Dynamite yet but that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Dax mentioned on his new podcast recently that Punk used to take out MJF, Hobbs, Wardlow, Cash for dinner all the time. And its certainly abundantly clear at this point that the Bucks had their camp which included all their like-minded cohorts, and Punk had his camp. Which probably wasn't a formal camp, but included guys like Wardlow, FTR, MJF, Starks...guys who had a similar vision for what wrestling should be.

Wardlow to his credit is a really diplomatic guy. I have seen alot of his interviews. (a) he always tries to maintain kayfabe, which I always appreciate, (b) he never goes out and talks s**t about anyone. So even if he defended Punk it likely was not by burying The Elite. That being said, if there is anyone who deserves to be blamed for sinking Wardlow, its Tony Khan. He has the single biggest hand in killing Wardlow's momentum with his garbage booking. Wardlow was white-hot coming out of that feud with MJF. And the first thing that this idiot did was book him in a joke match with 15 security guards. Even if The Elite had something to do with whatever happened to Wardlow this week, it was probably the finishing touch.

TK deserves the criticism, and especially appeasing his friendship with The Elite who we already know have some creative authority, it wouldn’t shock me if Wardlow was on the receiving end, how long does Wardlow have left on his AEW contract?

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] what do you make of this? https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/...s-plea-he-and-elite-find-way-make-it-work-duh

Too early to dream of Punk coming back as the biggest heel in the business with molten lava heat?

He would get nuclear heat from the autistic AEW hispter smarks, I for one would enjoy him ripping them a new one each week it’s hard to say what will happen at this point, if all agree on something it’s great for AEW really, Punk is the star they need to appease, not the children. Punk doesn’t need this either

 

[shaz619]

As rubbish as RAW has been lately, I am pretty psyched for the Rumble and WrestleMania season. I think its kinda impossible not to be.

Next year's Rumble in particular has the potential to be off-the-charts.

Yes WM season should be exciting with so many unknown possibilities which are all thrilling, it’s a dream scenario for Hunter to walk into, I hope he doesn’t mess it up

 

[BunnyRabbit]

He would get nuclear heat from the autistic AEW hispter smarks, I for one would enjoy him ripping them a new one each week it’s hard to say what will happen at this point, if all agree on something it’s great for AEW really, Punk is the star they need to appease, not the children. Punk doesn’t need this either

Punk going to WWE is more likely at this stage than going back to that locker room of cameloens.

 

[shaz619]

I am getting my hopes up cause WWE has a knack of disappointing fans.

But yes, Rumble is the most exciting time of the year. More so than Mania IMO. 2013,20142015,2016,2017,2018 all could have been much better rumbles yet were disappointing. People seem to love 2018 rumble cause Nakamura won, but I found it pretty dull tbh.

2020, 2001 and 2006 are amongst my favorites.

Yeah I concur on all 3. I'm a BIG fan of 2004 too. That for me is an example of a near perfect Rumble. But also agree that most from the modern era have been woefully disappointing.

99% of the modern ones were horrible, no real psychology or proper build, but the one where Drew won with Lesnar in there was special

 

[BunnyRabbit]

99% of the modern ones were horrible, no real psychology or proper build, but the one where Drew won with Lesnar in there was special

Yes definitely. The one that Edge won was also good back in late 2000s.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

TK deserves the criticism, and especially appeasing his friendship with The Elite who we already know have some creative authority, it wouldn’t shock me if Wardlow was on the receiving end, how long does Wardlow have left on his AEW contract?

I saw the Wardlow bit and to be fairly honest, i didn't get what was so offensive about it. The match was fairly good. A classic heel vs. injured babyface match. And the post-match deal felt like a good way to write Wardlow off TV for a few weeks until he makes a triumphant return to take revenge against the heel that wronged him.

As for his contract, my guess would be that either its up this year or he took the option and it runs till next year. Either way, despite the garbage booking Wardlow is not someone who has gotten disillusioned with AEW yet. But that might not be true for very long if TK doesn't improve his booking.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He would get nuclear heat from the autistic AEW hispter smarks, I for one would enjoy him ripping them a new one each week it’s hard to say what will happen at this point, if all agree on something it’s great for AEW really, Punk is the star they need to appease, not the children. Punk doesn’t need this either

Wrestling Observer Newsletter: "Chris Jericho and veterans ensured the locker-room that CM Punk would not come back".

Jericho seems committed to being an even bigger stooge of Meltzer than The Elite. Not the first time he has fed his version of the truth to Dave...certainly won't be the last. Its remarkable how insecure and politically motivated this guy has become.

Btw, would recommend checking out Dax's podcast on Punk. You can find it on YouTube. It goes a long way in dispelling the lies about Punk that the Observer and the hipster marks have been regurgitating.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Wrestling Observer Newsletter: "Chris Jericho and veterans ensured the locker-room that CM Punk would not come back".

Jericho seems committed to being an even bigger stooge of Meltzer than The Elite. Not the first time he has fed his version of the truth to Dave...certainly won't be the last. Its remarkable how insecure and politically motivated this guy has become.

Btw, would recommend checking out Dax's podcast on Punk. You can find it on YouTube. It goes a long way in dispelling the lies about Punk that the Observer and the hipster marks have been regurgitating.

If the owner of a wrestling promotions covets winning the Booker of The Year award rather than fixing and improving his promotion in terms of generating profit and growing it, then you should know what state his employees and prized possessions would be of.

Looking at how much of an imbecile TK is, I actually admire Vince and Trips/HBK for not letting their decisions be decided by what a random blogger thinks. Shawn has been booking NXT for a year now and he's been doing exactly what the current NXT was made for (to develop the raw guys who don't have any pro wrestling experience)

 

[shaz619]

Smackdown was pretty good. Finally, the needle starts to move on the Howdy/Wyatt/LA-Knight shitck, I have been impressed with LA Knight, Wyatt has helped showcase his vast talents on the mic. Finally! the QUEEN has returned to a monumental pop, I really enjoyed that, much needed injection to the division, it has been too long, Flair is arguably the best ever to do it and that was one hell of a finishing stretch, are people afraid to go up to Ronda and tell her how horrible she is on the mic? she was NEVER this bad during her first run, she barely makes much of an effort, maybe it’s a lack of respect for Hunter / his leadership. The main event was a nice way to close the show, classic SD main event involving the heavyweights and KO got the W, although I feel it would have been harmless if Cena got the pin considering the live audience, its nice to do things for the fans in attendance, its a concept lost on Huntdeep.

 

[shaz619]

Wrestling Observer Newsletter: "Chris Jericho and veterans ensured the locker-room that CM Punk would not come back".

Jericho seems committed to being an even bigger stooge of Meltzer than The Elite. Not the first time he has fed his version of the truth to Dave...certainly won't be the last. Its remarkable how insecure and politically motivated this guy has become.

Btw, would recommend checking out Dax's podcast on Punk. You can find it on YouTube. It goes a long way in dispelling the lies about Punk that the Observer and the hipster marks have been regurgitating.

Everything Jim and Brian have said about Jericho has come true, and thing is Jericho doesn’t give two hoots, they were right about the elite to. It’s tough pill to swallow being a big Jericho mark, I wish it didn’t come to this. I didn’t realise Dax had a podcast what is it called and the episode? nice one

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Everything Jim and Brian have said about Jericho has come true, and thing is Jericho doesn’t give two hoots, they were right about the elite to. It’s tough pill to swallow being a big Jericho mark, I wish it didn’t come to this. I didn’t realise Dax had a podcast what is it called and the episode? nice one

It has been a tough pill for me to swallow as well. But I have been seeing Jericho's progression ever since he came to AEW. He is simply not the same person he was in WWE. He is basically AEW's version of Hulk Hogan and there are many parallels between what Hogan was doing in WCW and what Jericho is doing in AEW. Jericho has to be much smarter ofcourse because of the presence of the internet. He has to factor in what people will say about him online...Hogan didn't have to worry about all that. But the constant politicking, rarely ever putting over someone clean, using your influence as the biggest star in the company to elevate yourself and your friends, and booking your own angles and storylines because the booker is both your buddy and a mark for you...these are all things that both Jericho and Hogan have in common.

It's called FTR with Dax. Here's a link of the first episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf90jRww-zY

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Smackdown was pretty good. Finally, the needle starts to move on the Howdy/Wyatt/LA-Knight shitck, I have been impressed with LA Knight, Wyatt has helped showcase his vast talents on the mic. Finally! the QUEEN has returned to a monumental pop, I really enjoyed that, much needed injection to the division, it has been too long, Flair is arguably the best ever to do it and that was one hell of a finishing stretch, are people afraid to go up to Ronda and tell her how horrible she is on the mic? she was NEVER this bad during her first run, she barely makes much of an effort, maybe it’s a lack of respect for Hunter / his leadership. The main event was a nice way to close the show, classic SD main event involving the heavyweights and KO got the W, although I feel it would have been harmless if Cena got the pin considering the live audience, its nice to do things for the fans in attendance, its a concept lost on Huntdeep.

It was definitely the best episode of SmackDown or RAW in a very long time. The Bray stuff is still a little too vague for me. Would like this storyline to pick up pace now. Its definitely intriguing but the progression has been too slow for my liking.

The Charlotte comeback was great and well-executed. Ronda's title run has felt like an afterthought and she needed to be put out of her misery. The matches have been rotten, the promos have been even worse and despite the name value that she has, her presence has not elevated SD! over the last 6 months. Maybe that's down to her opponents. But Ronda has never felt like less of a big deal than she does right now. Will be interesting to see how she factors into Mania plans.

Very much enjoyed the main-event. But I think that KO needed to get the pin here going into the match against Reigns. Infact I think that he should have pinned Reigns here because people already have trouble buying anyone as a genuine threat to Reigns. Him pinning Reigns would atleast give him something going into a match with a guy who has been World Champion for 2 years.

Also, did you notice the nasty cut that KO got on his eye? Me thinks that was a receipt from Reigns for KO busting Reigns' eardrum during the WarGames match. But man oh man did that look gnarly.

 

[shaz619]

It was definitely the best episode of SmackDown or RAW in a very long time. The Bray stuff is still a little too vague for me. Would like this storyline to pick up pace now. Its definitely intriguing but the progression has been too slow for my liking.

The Charlotte comeback was great and well-executed. Ronda's title run has felt like an afterthought and she needed to be put out of her misery. The matches have been rotten, the promos have been even worse and despite the name value that she has, her presence has not elevated SD! over the last 6 months. Maybe that's down to her opponents. But Ronda has never felt like less of a big deal than she does right now. Will be interesting to see how she factors into Mania plans.

Very much enjoyed the main-event. But I think that KO needed to get the pin here going into the match against Reigns. Infact I think that he should have pinned Reigns here because people already have trouble buying anyone as a genuine threat to Reigns. Him pinning Reigns would atleast give him something going into a match with a guy who has been World Champion for 2 years.

Also, did you notice the nasty cut that KO got on his eye? Me thinks that was a receipt from Reigns for KO busting Reigns' eardrum during the WarGames match. But man oh man did that look gnarly.

I was going to post in this thread about Wyatt angle needing to pick up but for now I will take the segment on SD, and it was great to see Uncle Howdy, it’s intriguing his attack on Wyatt, there’s mystery around the character in a good way but hopefully they can now build on this and give us a bit more.

You know what, to be fair to Ronda her match with Gonzales was pretty decent actually, the two have chemistry and with the right opponent Ronda can have great matches. But my problem with her is that, it seems like she isn’t bothered and I think booking have not handled her well at all. I’ve seen her cut promos live in UK and they were never so bad, I believe she is not given much of a script to follow either, they should be utilising her persona from MMA like in the first run. So at this point, it’s probably a great idea to hit reset and hence the title change was brilliant and received a huge pop

I know what you mean, but it would play off better on TV if they tried to balance the need long term with the live audience, I feel Hunter gets consumed with getting his guys over that he forgets that aspect, these are ticking paying customers and a Cena for the win would have blown the roof off. But hey, if KO was going to pin Reigns, I’d be all for that! it would mean so much more, but the ending to that great match was a little flat. I actually had two questions from a complete casual; when did Reigns get beat last and why is Kevin Owens using Austin’s move yes I think you are right, it may have been a receipt lol

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

If the owner of a wrestling promotions covets winning the Booker of The Year award rather than fixing and improving his promotion in terms of generating profit and growing it, then you should know what state his employees and prized possessions would be of.

Looking at how much of an imbecile TK is, I actually admire Vince and Trips/HBK for not letting their decisions be decided by what a random blogger thinks. Shawn has been booking NXT for a year now and he's been doing exactly what the current NXT was made for (to develop the raw guys who don't have any pro wrestling experience)

I dunno if Shawn booking of NXT is anything to look upto tho. The show is hard to watch, most of the talent is still very green and we all heard Kevin Nash's quote from a few months ago where he asked Shawn why all the guys and girls were doing flips? To which Shawn replied, that's what the people like these days.

Tony Khan is a complete mark and some of the things he says just make you roll your eyes: "I will be doing a full court press for Booker of the Year", but the saving grace with him is that he can still put on entertaining television (for better or worse) because of the talent roster at his disposal. And because he is a mark, he oftentimes books dream matches that most fans want to see. He fudges it up with the finishes and psychology because he doesn't have enough experience doing this. But its not like he doesn't come up with good stuff.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Speaking of which, the Swerve/Keith Lee and Rick Ross segment on Dynamite from a couple of weeks back was comedy gold. It was the kind of stuff that you could never see on WWE TV because of how scripted and regimented everything is. I don't know what was the intention going into this segment, but what they ended up with was legendary stuff. I dunno if you guys have seen this or not, but you simply must:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BiDhQ1ETz8

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I dunno if Shawn booking of NXT is anything to look upto tho. The show is hard to watch, most of the talent is still very green and we all heard Kevin Nash's quote from a few months ago where he asked Shawn why all the guys and girls were doing flips? To which Shawn replied, that's what the people like these days.

Tony Khan is a complete mark and some of the things he says just make you roll your eyes: "I will be doing a full court press for Booker of the Year", but the saving grace with him is that he can still put on entertaining television (for better or worse) because of the talent roster at his disposal. And because he is a mark, he oftentimes books dream matches that most fans want to see. He fudges it up with the finishes and psychology because he doesn't have enough experience doing this. But its not like he doesn't come up with good stuff.

nxt's goal is totally different to what it was a few years ago. he doesn't have signing power (atleast when vince was still there)
back then, it was an alternate for fans who wanted to see in ring action and longer matches where majority of signees were indie guys with years of experience.

Now it's simply a developmental territory where people with minimal exposure to wrestling are trained and developed. Looking at how much Carmelo Hayes, Waller, Breakker, Sikoa etc have improved, can tell you it's definitely working (in the direction they wanted). Like it's definitely something they are doing for themselves and not for pleasing pseudojournalists.

Regarding Nash's comments, I think he was telling HBK to slow down the action and HBK said it's what the fans like these days. And honestly speaking, Nash was hardly known for putting up good wrestling matches. Scott Hall was probably the best worker in NWO.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

nxt's goal is totally different to what it was a few years ago. he doesn't have signing power (atleast when vince was still there)
back then, it was an alternate for fans who wanted to see in ring action and longer matches where majority of signees were indie guys with years of experience.

Now it's simply a developmental territory where people with minimal exposure to wrestling are trained and developed. Looking at how much Carmelo Hayes, Waller, Breakker, Sikoa etc have improved, can tell you it's definitely working (in the direction they wanted). Like it's definitely something they are doing for themselves and not for pleasing pseudojournalists.

Regarding Nash's comments, I think he was telling HBK to slow down the action and HBK said it's what the fans like these days. And honestly speaking, Nash was hardly known for putting up good wrestling matches. Scott Hall was probably the best worker in NWO.

Yeah but even the NXT talent that makes it to the main-roster tends to be very green these days. Which tells you that not a good enough job is being done to polish them into main-roster stars. At the end of the day, the best way to learn is by working every week on house shows. Working on TV is not entirely the same because a TV show has to accommodate a number of things, and may not necessarily be focused towards guys and girls in getting their reps in.

AEW atleast has their YouTube shows which they can use to help their wrestlers get some reps.

That may be true but Nash's work-rate has nothing to do with his comments, which are very pertinent and also indictive of the fact that everyone is doing this fast-paced, gymnastics inspired style.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah but even the NXT talent that makes it to the main-roster tends to be very green these days. Which tells you that not a good enough job is being done to polish them into main-roster stars. At the end of the day, the best way to learn is by working every week on house shows. Working on TV is not entirely the same because a TV show has to accommodate a number of things, and may not necessarily be focused towards guys and girls in getting their reps in.

AEW atleast has their YouTube shows which they can use to help their wrestlers get some reps.

That may be true but Nash's work-rate has nothing to do with his comments, which are very pertinent and also indictive of the fact that everyone is doing this fast-paced, gymnastics inspired style.

Since NXT 2.0 started, only Solo Sikoa has been called up from that crop. So don't know which one are you pointing towards. NXT does have its own live events and their talent works there. Some of NXT guys wrestle on mainevent as well.

Ciampa, Black, Reilly, Cole, Priest, Riddle etc none of them does that style.

 

[shaz619]

Yeah but even the NXT talent that makes it to the main-roster tends to be very green these days. Which tells you that not a good enough job is being done to polish them into main-roster stars. At the end of the day, the best way to learn is by working every week on house shows. Working on TV is not entirely the same because a TV show has to accommodate a number of things, and may not necessarily be focused towards guys and girls in getting their reps in.

AEW atleast has their YouTube shows which they can use to help their wrestlers get some reps.

That may be true but Nash's work-rate has nothing to do with his comments, which are very pertinent and also indictive of the fact that everyone is doing this fast-paced, gymnastics inspired style.

Honestly, the less said about AEW’s so called development program the better. I don’t know what they are gaining from their youtube smark shows regardless but they are certainly not doing anything for the “home grown” talent.

NXT has done some dark shows themselves outside of Florida but when it comes to training via house shows, am sure back in the old days they were more for proving to Vince what was known by whichever promoter running the development territory, they were done to ease the talent into the main roster and execute the character for the first time in an arena, all the fundamental training and ability to get familiar with a TV format would have been done beforehand, and before they had development territory they had talent scouts namely Jim Ross and then they’d just give them a stretch of house shows and make a decision, Jim had some decent signing power. I think that’s where they are trying to go now have something similar to Florida or OVW, although it wont be quiet the same because NXT have a TV deal with a high profile network, although you could argue that’s exactly what they need as a live testing ground. I think Shawn is doing a decent job tbh it’s a shame what happened with Mandy, I thought she was his star pupil, Solo Sikoa has been a success on the main roster to, Shawn himself worked a lot with Umaga when he did that character and am sure he has so much value to add on a 1-1 basis, apparently KO heads there sometimes just to speak with Shawn and having him there is golden for anyone on the main roster who need to talk to a genuine GOAT and not the pretender with motorway lines on his forehead and massive 4/10 nose.

A development territory allows you to develop talents from the ground up and these can be brilliant for those already from an athletic background and its good to have something like the performance centre / experienced trainers there, obviously I feel they should still be open to bringing in guys from outside this loop and they’ve done that as well.

For someone like AEW who may not be in a position like WWE or have the resources or pro wrestling acumen, they need good talent scouts at the very least. Ideally they would have some form of development but they don’t, I don’t think its bad going for WWE rejects but it’s a bit of a short cut or worse, specialising too early in terms of who they want to appease (smarks) and thus bringing in indy garbage wrestling to their programs and having them work the same way they did before smaller audiences thinking that’s what they need to drive their business

 

[James]

Just realised this week that WWE isn’t on Sky Sports anymore.

It moved to the less accessible and more expensive BT Sport add on.

A pity.

 

[shaz619]

Just realised this week that WWE isn’t on Sky Sports anymore.

It moved to the less accessible and more expensive BT Sport add on.

A pity.

It has been on BT for a while now, they outbid Sky back in 2019 and if am honest, they have promoted WWE much better then Sky ever did. I agree BT and Sky in general are horrid from a cost and access POV.

But if you become a new customer of EE, you get BT sports free for 3 months I believe, I had it back then. Personally, I can never watch a full RAW or SD episode each week anymore and Youtube highlights on the WWE channel more than do the job and if there’s something big on, I will look for it another way. Then there’s WWE’s subscription service the Network, its good if you like to watch PPV for 9.99 opposed to paying in excess of 20 quid on Box office and there is tons of archive content to.

Also, AEW is an alternative program and you can watch weekly episodes for free on ITV4 (tape delay) on Fridays at 11pm, you will see some familiar names like Chris Jericho, Bryan Danielson, Jon Moxley and Sting (Yes he is still wrestling) and new guys like MJF and Ricky Starks who I rate highly, there is so much garbage outside these names to so be warned, it can be a decent casual watch though although I resort to YT highlights again

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Since NXT 2.0 started, only Solo Sikoa has been called up from that crop. So don't know which one are you pointing towards. NXT does have its own live events and their talent works there. Some of NXT guys wrestle on mainevent as well.

Ciampa, Black, Reilly, Cole, Priest, Riddle etc none of them does that style.

Pretty much all the names you mentioned above: Solo, Waller, Breakker. Haven't really seen much of Carmelo Hayes so I can't speak on him. But the rest are all fairly green talents.

Ciampa, Black, Reilly, Cole, Priest and Riddle all came to NXT after years in ROH and the indies.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Pretty much all the names you mentioned above: Solo, Waller, Breakker. Haven't really seen much of Carmelo Hayes so I can't speak on him. But the rest are all fairly green talents.

Ciampa, Black, Reilly, Cole, Priest and Riddle all came to NXT after years in ROH and the indies.

Waller and Breakker haven't been called up to the main roster yet. Bron only had one match to promote NXT 2.0. And Waller only made an appearance when AJ went to NXT for a feud with him.

I would agree about Bron not being ready yet and maybe he'll never be as good of a worker as the likes of Tyler Bate, Pete Dunne etc but WWE are more interested in guys who have the larger than life look and Bron is incredibly agile and improving steadily. He does need to improve his mic skills though.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Regarding Waller, he's actually a pretty good talent. I think he has a bright future.

Hayes is ready for the main roster I believe.

Solo was called either a bit early or he is just too similar to the Usos.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Honestly, the less said about AEW’s so called development program the better. I don’t know what they are gaining from their youtube smark shows regardless but they are certainly not doing anything for the “home grown” talent.

NXT has done some dark shows themselves outside of Florida but when it comes to training via house shows, am sure back in the old days they were more for proving to Vince what was known by whichever promoter running the development territory, they were done to ease the talent into the main roster and execute the character for the first time in an arena, all the fundamental training and ability to get familiar with a TV format would have been done beforehand, and before they had development territory they had talent scouts namely Jim Ross and then they’d just give them a stretch of house shows and make a decision, Jim had some decent signing power. I think that’s where they are trying to go now have something similar to Florida or OVW, although it wont be quiet the same because NXT have a TV deal with a high profile network, although you could argue that’s exactly what they need as a live testing ground. I think Shawn is doing a decent job tbh it’s a shame what happened with Mandy, I thought she was his star pupil, Solo Sikoa has been a success on the main roster to, Shawn himself worked a lot with Umaga when he did that character and am sure he has so much value to add on a 1-1 basis, apparently KO heads there sometimes just to speak with Shawn and having him there is golden for anyone on the main roster who need to talk to a genuine GOAT and not the pretender with motorway lines on his forehead and massive 4/10 nose.

A development territory allows you to develop talents from the ground up and these can be brilliant for those already from an athletic background and its good to have something like the performance centre / experienced trainers there, obviously I feel they should still be open to bringing in guys from outside this loop and they’ve done that as well.

For someone like AEW who may not be in a position like WWE or have the resources or pro wrestling acumen, they need good talent scouts at the very least. Ideally they would have some form of development but they don’t, I don’t think its bad going for WWE rejects but it’s a bit of a short cut or worse, specialising too early in terms of who they want to appease (smarks) and thus bringing in indy garbage wrestling to their programs and having them work the same way they did before smaller audiences thinking that’s what they need to drive their business

I'm not saying that AEW's development program is any good. But they've still managed to sign a number of good young talents, who could be something one day. While a number of other young guys have been pushed/featured heavily on the show ever since it went on-air. How many good young talents does WWE has right now, besides Theory, Breakker and Solo Sikoa? Guys who could be stars in the near future?

I also think that there is something fundamentally wrong with WWE's development program, where they make a concentrated effort to go after far too many college athletes and NFL rejects. Guys who have no interest in wrestling besides making money. People like that always take longer to develop because they don't get the business.

I also think that its a damning indictment of WWE's talent development program that the only real star that they have created in the last decade or so is Roman Reigns.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Regarding Waller, he's actually a pretty good talent. I think he has a bright future.

Hayes is ready for the main roster I believe.

Solo was called either a bit early or he is just too similar to the Usos.

I mean the less said about his in-ring, the better. But he definitely has personality, which is why I can see him being a major main-roster name one day. This might seem like a dig, but I actually see him as a better version of The Miz.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

NJPW's annual Tokyo Dome show is tonight apparently. While I'll probably skip most matches on the card, there are some that I am interested in seeing. The big one is obviously Omega v Ospreay. But Okada v Jay White should be good too. FTR is in action as well, defending their IWGP tag belts in a match that they will probably lose. And then ofcourse there's the high probability of Sasha Banks showing up at the event aswell.

 

[shaz619]

I'm not saying that AEW's development program is any good. But they've still managed to sign a number of good young talents, who could be something one day. While a number of other young guys have been pushed/featured heavily on the show ever since it went on-air. How many good young talents does WWE has right now, besides Theory, Breakker and Solo Sikoa? Guys who could be stars in the near future?

I also think that there is something fundamentally wrong with WWE's development program, where they make a concentrated effort to go after far too many college athletes and NFL rejects. Guys who have no interest in wrestling besides making money. People like that always take longer to develop because they don't get the business.

I also think that its a damning indictment of WWE's talent development program that the only real star that they have created in the last decade or so is Roman Reigns.

Signing someone is one thing but developing and harnessing that talent is another ball game, we’ve seen them botch the booking of some vets, there is little hope for the youngsters and even worse when there is no support centre or network around them. The guys who I love down there were proven talents long before they joined the company. Despite what has been said, Punk took it upon himself to be a mentor and try to help, he wasn’t hired for that purpose and AEW were lucky to have someone like that who wasn’t just there to collect a pay check. But I’d always favour excessive structure compared to none at all.

Lets be honest, in this era, if you manage to mould even one of those guys into the next big thing, that’s huge. The likes of Hogan, Austin, Cena, Taker, Rock and Reigns only come around so often. But I think they have a decent crop and support system present to feed talent to the main roster, who gets over is dependent on a number of factors and the names you mentioned is a handful to be honest. I don’t think they will turn a blind eye outside their loop, ROH was evidence of that long before NXT 2.0 and I feel the likes of Wardlow, MJF and Starks would surely be on their agenda, I seem them benefiting from the machine and breaking out potentially as major stars in NA given the potential for huge exposure providing they are managed well

I would think as part of their recruitment they’d need some interest in WWE especially in this era, Kurt Angle famously wasn’t really that into it but he was intrigued being a free style wrestler, WWE are lucky Gable Stevenson is actually a big fan.

 

[shaz619]

NJPW's annual Tokyo Dome show is tonight apparently. While I'll probably skip most matches on the card, there are some that I am interested in seeing. The big one is obviously Omega v Ospreay. But Okada v Jay White should be good too. FTR is in action as well, defending their IWGP tag belts in a match that they will probably lose. And then ofcourse there's the high probability of Sasha Banks showing up at the event aswell.

I will probably watch Okada v White but they’ve fought so often now, NJPW dilute rivalries super fast. Not interested in Omega or Ospreay. I also need to check out Nakamura vs The Great Muta from NOAH

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I mean the less said about his in-ring, the better. But he definitely has personality, which is why I can see him being a major main-roster name one day. This might seem like a dig, but I actually see him as a better version of The Miz.

Don't know when was the last time you saw Waller, but he is actually very good in the ring now.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Don't know when was the last time you saw Waller, but he is actually very good in the ring now.

Saw him in that weird TNA King of the Mountain rip-off that NXT did last month

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Signing someone is one thing but developing and harnessing that talent is another ball game, we’ve seen them botch the booking of some vets, there is little hope for the youngsters and even worse when there is no support centre or network around them. The guys who I love down there were proven talents long before they joined the company. Despite what has been said, Punk took it upon himself to be a mentor and try to help, he wasn’t hired for that purpose and AEW were lucky to have someone like that who wasn’t just there to collect a pay check. But I’d always favour excessive structure compared to none at all.

Lets be honest, in this era, if you manage to mould even one of those guys into the next big thing, that’s huge. The likes of Hogan, Austin, Cena, Taker, Rock and Reigns only come around so often. But I think they have a decent crop and support system present to feed talent to the main roster, who gets over is dependent on a number of factors and the names you mentioned is a handful to be honest. I don’t think they will turn a blind eye outside their loop, ROH was evidence of that long before NXT 2.0 and I feel the likes of Wardlow, MJF and Starks would surely be on their agenda, I seem them benefiting from the machine and breaking out potentially as major stars in NA given the potential for huge exposure providing they are managed well

I would think as part of their recruitment they’d need some interest in WWE especially in this era, Kurt Angle famously wasn’t really that into it but he was intrigued being a free style wrestler, WWE are lucky Gable Stevenson is actually a big fan.

Again, I'm not saying that AEW is any good at harnessing talent. But I can atleast appreciate them for pushing younger guys in prominent spots. There is lack of structure yes, but there are also alot of vets in that dressing room like Dustin, Arn, Sting, Jerry Lynn who are helping out young guys that want to be helped and don't act like they know everything.

WWE despite having all that structure and all those resources have not invested in young talent for a very long time. For years they have been content with simply bringing back the part-timers for the big events and big money matches. Maybe things will change now that Hunter is in-charge. But for me, the biggest reason why WWE has such a serious lack of top-name talent right now is because they simply have not invested in them the way they have in the past.

I'm not saying that athletes should not be scouted. But I think the amount of focus they are giving to that with their WWE NIL program and other stuff is not something especially productive. Because the simple fact is that a Kurt Angle only comes around once in a generation. But the amount of time and energy that it will take to turn some of these athletes into wrestlers would be far more time-consuming than simply molding someone who has wrestled on the indies for a few years.

 

[shaz619]

Again, I'm not saying that AEW is any good at harnessing talent. But I can atleast appreciate them for pushing younger guys in prominent spots. There is lack of structure yes, but there are also alot of vets in that dressing room like Dustin, Arn, Sting, Jerry Lynn who are helping out young guys that want to be helped and don't act like they know everything.

WWE despite having all that structure and all those resources have not invested in young talent for a very long time. For years they have been content with simply bringing back the part-timers for the big events and big money matches. Maybe things will change now that Hunter is in-charge. But for me, the biggest reason why WWE has such a serious lack of top-name talent right now is because they simply have not invested in them the way they have in the past.

I'm not saying that athletes should not be scouted. But I think the amount of focus they are giving to that with their WWE NIL program and other stuff is not something especially productive. Because the simple fact is that a Kurt Angle only comes around once in a generation. But the amount of time and energy that it will take to turn some of these athletes into wrestlers would be far more time-consuming than simply molding someone who has wrestled on the indies for a few years.

Pushing is more of a booking thing, it’s only after all this time and drama that the likes of MJF and Starks are coming into the spotlight. Majority of their guys signed had some form of experience, unfortunately that is hit and miss when you don’t have a filter for what is good/bad or sign people due to nepotism.

Do you really think those names are making a substantial difference? at this point in their careers I feel they much rather not get caught up in backstage politics and do what they are asked / no more. As you know there are groups and some which like you to play by their rules and if not your push is sabotaged. Sure there are probably some wrestlers there who are smart enough to seek advice from legends.

I see what you mean, I think their hirings from greco roman or free style wrestling are very clever though. Historically, such athletes from these backgrounds pick things up swiftly and have tremendous technique. They’ve scouted those from MMA but I would think they are harder to train. A balance is good, athletes in the current era are a must for the style which is worked and the company has generally succeeded with this approach. In this day and age, independent wrestling is probably at its weakest point, it doesn’t help WWE that ROH was acquired by AEW, they were a bit of an unofficial talent hub. And those talents which are decent, tend to get snapped up pretty quick / have options beyond WWE. I haven’t followed the indy scene in years but in this spot oriented era the quality must be horrific, any decent names out there in NA? WWE’s best bet would be Europe and tbh they did invest in the talent here through NXT UK bringing the likes of Imperium, Dunne and WALTER, I think this overlooked, best thing about indy talent here is they are trained old school

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Saw him in that weird TNA King of the Mountain rip-off that NXT did last month

Hmmm okay i'd say let's see how he does against Breakker. I'll say he'll outshine him there.

 

[shaz619]

Finally, the most loyal fans in the world have been rewarded with a proper PPV in the UK! Money in the Bank will be held at the 02 arena in London! I hope tickets are affordable, for anyone interested you should sign up for the pre-sale because the secondary market here is ridiculous.

This was a matter of time after the successful event in Cardiff and the revenue generated, WWE finally realising the potential

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Pushing is more of a booking thing, it’s only after all this time and drama that the likes of MJF and Starks are coming into the spotlight. Majority of their guys signed had some form of experience, unfortunately that is hit and miss when you don’t have a filter for what is good/bad or sign people due to nepotism.

Do you really think those names are making a substantial difference? at this point in their careers I feel they much rather not get caught up in backstage politics and do what they are asked / no more. As you know there are groups and some which like you to play by their rules and if not your push is sabotaged. Sure there are probably some wrestlers there who are smart enough to seek advice from legends.

I see what you mean, I think their hirings from greco roman or free style wrestling are very clever though. Historically, such athletes from these backgrounds pick things up swiftly and have tremendous technique. They’ve scouted those from MMA but I would think they are harder to train. A balance is good, athletes in the current era are a must for the style which is worked and the company has generally succeeded with this approach. In this day and age, independent wrestling is probably at its weakest point, it doesn’t help WWE that ROH was acquired by AEW, they were a bit of an unofficial talent hub. And those talents which are decent, tend to get snapped up pretty quick / have options beyond WWE. I haven’t followed the indy scene in years but in this spot oriented era the quality must be horrific, any decent names out there in NA? WWE’s best bet would be Europe and tbh they did invest in the talent here through NXT UK bringing the likes of Imperium, Dunne and WALTER, I think this overlooked, best thing about indy talent here is they are trained old school

Yeah its a tricky place for them to navigate for sure. AEW actually feels alot like the middle-ground between an indie promotion and a major wrestling company. It seems to have elements of both.

Yeah you're right. And I don't think there's anyone left at this point. All the major independent talents in the US have been signed by AEW, WWE or if not them then IMPACT or MLW. PWG has oftentimes offered a good spotlight to indie talent in the past. But even their BOLA line-up this year is loaded with IMPACT and Mexican talent. The last class of acclaimed indie talent comprised of guys like Garcia, Yuta, Lee Moriarty.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Pushing is more of a booking thing, it’s only after all this time and drama that the likes of MJF and Starks are coming into the spotlight. Majority of their guys signed had some form of experience, unfortunately that is hit and miss when you don’t have a filter for what is good/bad or sign people due to nepotism.

Do you really think those names are making a substantial difference? at this point in their careers I feel they much rather not get caught up in backstage politics and do what they are asked / no more. As you know there are groups and some which like you to play by their rules and if not your push is sabotaged. Sure there are probably some wrestlers there who are smart enough to seek advice from legends.

I see what you mean, I think their hirings from greco roman or free style wrestling are very clever though. Historically, such athletes from these backgrounds pick things up swiftly and have tremendous technique. They’ve scouted those from MMA but I would think they are harder to train. A balance is good, athletes in the current era are a must for the style which is worked and the company has generally succeeded with this approach. In this day and age, independent wrestling is probably at its weakest point, it doesn’t help WWE that ROH was acquired by AEW, they were a bit of an unofficial talent hub. And those talents which are decent, tend to get snapped up pretty quick / have options beyond WWE. I haven’t followed the indy scene in years but in this spot oriented era the quality must be horrific, any decent names out there in NA? WWE’s best bet would be Europe and tbh they did invest in the talent here through NXT UK bringing the likes of Imperium, Dunne and WALTER, I think this overlooked, best thing about indy talent here is they are trained old school

I see your point though. I think with the indies drying up, WWE has been forced to create a long-term strategy to unearth new talent.

And honestly, I don't see indie wrestling being that major going forward outside of PWG, GCW and smaller regional promotions like DEFY. Because with the presence of AEW, you just know that TK is going to sign any half-decent indie talent that he can get his hands on.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Darby winning the TNT Championship in his hometown was a great moment. As much as I liked Joe as the TV Champion, I think its surprises and upsets like these that make pro-wrestling so great. It was AEW's Seattle debut so he got a huge pop from a packed crowd too.

Starks beating Jericho was nice and that was another match for which the crowd popped big on the finish. Until ofcourse Starks got obliterated in the aftermath, just so Jericho could ensure that this was not a one-off but the start of another drawn out, overlong Chris Jericho feud where by the end its hard to gauge if the guy being elevated was even elevated at all.

The MJF/Bryan segment was gold. It was hilarious watching MJF name-drop Cornette ). Talk about a way to get heat with the marks and boys in the back in one fell swoop. But I think even more significantly, this segment basically told us what the main-event of the next PPV is going to be. And I don't know about you [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION], but my mouth is already watering at the thought of MJF v Bryan Danielson is a 60-minute Ironman Match! Hell yes!! Plus, we will get a month of Bryan jumping through hoops, as is the case with all of MJF's opponents. But this time its just going to be him wrestling every week till Feb 9, as opposed to him going after MJF's stooges.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzMzEhIzOU

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Omega v Ospreay was a pretty good match. It was not 6.25 stars lol. I suspected that Meltzer would mark out for this and that's exactly what he did. Second highest rated match in the Observer ever. Okada v Jay White was pretty good too. Sasha Banks' debut was alright. But the IWGP Jr. Heavyweight title match this year was disappointing, as was the FTR match (not because of them tho). Didn't bother to see any of the other matches.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Also, guys [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION], Vince is back! I had a feeling that him going away was too good to be true. He never came across as the kind of guy who would simply walk away. It seems he will burn his creation to the ground and get richer doing it, then let his daughter or son-in-law run it. All signs point towards a potential sale, which has been rumored ever since Nick Khan came onboard anyway. No idea what WWE will look like when all is said and done. Will it be another Disney? Will it be owned by the Saudis? Imagine Mansoor as the Undisputed WWE Champion lol. Most funny is probably how the guys that came back to WWE are feeling now...thinking it was the start of a new era. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.

I just hope Vince doesn't get a hold of creative. I'd atleast like to see the current storylines play out till WrestleMania.

 

[shaz619]

Darby winning the TNT Championship in his hometown was a great moment. As much as I liked Joe as the TV Champion, I think its surprises and upsets like these that make pro-wrestling so great. It was AEW's Seattle debut so he got a huge pop from a packed crowd too.

Starks beating Jericho was nice and that was another match for which the crowd popped big on the finish. Until ofcourse Starks got obliterated in the aftermath, just so Jericho could ensure that this was not a one-off but the start of another drawn out, overlong Chris Jericho feud where by the end its hard to gauge if the guy being elevated was even elevated at all.

The MJF/Bryan segment was gold. It was hilarious watching MJF name-drop Cornette ). Talk about a way to get heat with the marks and boys in the back in one fell swoop. But I think even more significantly, this segment basically told us what the main-event of the next PPV is going to be. And I don't know about you [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION], but my mouth is already watering at the thought of MJF v Bryan Danielson is a 60-minute Ironman Match! Hell yes!! Plus, we will get a month of Bryan jumping through hoops, as is the case with all of MJF's opponents. But this time its just going to be him wrestling every week till Feb 9, as opposed to him going after MJF's stooges.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzMzEhIzOU

Jericho taking note of all the heat online and opportunistically put him over, I guarantee it

I watched half of that video on my break and I am dying of laughter ) and my god I wouldn’t mind an Iron Man match at all, it would do wonders for MJF to work that type of match with Bryan

 

[shaz619]

Also, guys [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION], Vince is back! I had a feeling that him going away was too good to be true. He never came across as the kind of guy who would simply walk away. It seems he will burn his creation to the ground and get richer doing it, then let his daughter or son-in-law run it. All signs point towards a potential sale, which has been rumored ever since Nick Khan came onboard anyway. No idea what WWE will look like when all is said and done. Will it be another Disney? Will it be owned by the Saudis? Imagine Mansoor as the Undisputed WWE Champion lol. Most funny is probably how the guys that came back to WWE are feeling now...thinking it was the start of a new era. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.

I just hope Vince doesn't get a hold of creative. I'd atleast like to see the current storylines play out till WrestleMania.

Vince would never go down without a fight.

It may have seemed a stretch when I said this back then but I don’t believe it is far fetched. I am genuinely of the opinion that both Hunter and Steph outed Vince and in doing so they have now forced his hand. As you say he’d rather sell than let those two feel the power they have right now. A sale to the saudis would be a huge shock but wouldn’t surprise me, they have stakes in every game now. But there is sure to be major interest in the states, WWE have a handsome balance sheet and their debt/equity ratio is only 10 units more than Disney: and in the past 12 months it fell below 50% as their share-price is not too far removed from doubling!

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Omega v Ospreay was a pretty good match. It was not 6.25 stars lol. I suspected that Meltzer would mark out for this and that's exactly what he did. Second highest rated match in the Observer ever. Okada v Jay White was pretty good too. Sasha Banks' debut was alright. But the IWGP Jr. Heavyweight title match this year was disappointing, as was the FTR match (not because of them tho). Didn't bother to see any of the other matches.

Ospreay was always a good wrestler. but since bulking up and moving to heavyweight division, he has become an even better all round wrestler. He can still do flippy stuff, but he's limited them, he uses power based offense and some flips as well and uses in ring psychology as well. I am not bothered (actually I don't really care about how many stars an old ****** gives him) by stars, but I will definitely say he's been putting a lot of great matches for some time now. The only problem is his lack of good enough promo skills and effectively building a feud (something that doesn't happen in Japan or the indies). He used to get injured a lot, he still does but he has curbed his urges to go full insane.

One thing that gets him in trouble is his behavior on social media. Very uninhibited, very unpredictable. can do something really good and then would undo it with something a lot stupidder. Plus he has mental health issues. He has been dealing with depression and has contemplated suicide quite a few times even in his prime as a wrestler. So there are a lot of stuff that should be treated and fixed about him in this aspect.

WWE offered him contract 3 or 4 times I heard somewhere. He'd be a good commodity for them going forwards. He is young, well rounded and has presence. Promo work and gimmick, no better place than WWE for him to work on. Then, his injuries could be better managed there as well. But I think he genuinely loved Japanese wrestling.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Also, guys [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION], Vince is back! I had a feeling that him going away was too good to be true. He never came across as the kind of guy who would simply walk away. It seems he will burn his creation to the ground and get richer doing it, then let his daughter or son-in-law run it. All signs point towards a potential sale, which has been rumored ever since Nick Khan came onboard anyway. No idea what WWE will look like when all is said and done. Will it be another Disney? Will it be owned by the Saudis? Imagine Mansoor as the Undisputed WWE Champion lol. Most funny is probably how the guys that came back to WWE are feeling now...thinking it was the start of a new era. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.

I just hope Vince doesn't get a hold of creative. I'd atleast like to see the current storylines play out till WrestleMania.

I am going to remain silent on this stuff.

Cause I legit have no idea what is happening or what is about to happen. So i'll just see what happens. Bro seriously, what's wrong with Saudia that makes you hate them so much. British Empire and USA have done far heinous war crimes over the course of their history. As long as they don't do any evil stuff to us, Pakistanis (and Muslims), it's all fine in my book. We still get to go for Umrah and Hajj. And there's so much employment opportunities in Saudia for Pakistani and expats. I visited Saudia in 2019, just a few weeks after Crown Jewel (that HBK return match), and the general public was pretty happy with them hosting a wrestling event. Actually they had advertised it a lot in the country so much so that common man knew about a wrestling event happening there.

i thoroughly enjoyed my stay there. Makkah and Madinah are the two most soul soothing cities in the world.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] I had been planning to take my last exam right before the Rumble so that I would complete my tradition of streaming Royal Rumble live by waking up at 4 in the morning. But my exam is 2 days after Rumble, so guess this year, I'll have to break that streak to achieve another. Hopefully, will have a lot of time once January ends and my result comes fine. I guess for next 3 weeks, I'll be staying away from PP.

Will talk to you guys soon!

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Jericho taking note of all the heat online and opportunistically put him over, I guarantee it

I watched half of that video on my break and I am dying of laughter ) and my god I wouldn’t mind an Iron Man match at all, it would do wonders for MJF to work that type of match with Bryan

Their next PPV has the prospect to be a real banger. This match. The MITB style ladder match. Hobbs hopefully winning the All-Atlantic or TNT title in a quick squash considering the PPV will be in his hometown. Mox v Page in a gimmick match. The Elite v House of Black would actually be pretty good too. The only thing they will have to look at is that the card is not too long. Because for one thing, its impossible to have a very long card when you have a 60-minute Ironman match as the main event to begin with. WrestleMania 12 had 6 matches on the main card. Will be interesting to see who gets shafted. There certainly is no need for both the TNT and All-Atlantic titles to be defended at the PPV. Nor is there any need for that TBS Championship match to be on the card. Some matches can be relegated to the pre-show aswell.

Yup. The match should be great for MJF. And after that he can move on to Hangnail Adam Page. Who I'm guessing will beat Moxley on the PPV in a gimmick match. That feud has to be a proper one though. Because I really want MJF to rip Page apart verbally.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Vince would never go down without a fight.

It may have seemed a stretch when I said this back then but I don’t believe it is far fetched. I am genuinely of the opinion that both Hunter and Steph outed Vince and in doing so they have now forced his hand. As you say he’d rather sell than let those two feel the power they have right now. A sale to the saudis would be a huge shock but wouldn’t surprise me, they have stakes in every game now. But there is sure to be major interest in the states, WWE have a handsome balance sheet and their debt/equity ratio is only 10 units more than Disney: and in the past 12 months it fell below 50% as their share-price is not too far removed from doubling!

I also think that he really wants to be booker and head of creative until somebody takes that role from his cold, dead hands. I mean if he isn't willing to let his daughter and son-in-law run the show, then you can bet your house that he won't let anyone else run it either. Which is why it does not surprise me that rumors are swirling online that he has made him being head of creative a precondition for selling the company.

 

[shaz619]

I also think that he really wants to be booker and head of creative until somebody takes that role from his cold, dead hands. I mean if he isn't willing to let his daughter and son-in-law run the show, then you can bet your house that he won't let anyone else run it either. Which is why it does not surprise me that rumors are swirling online that he has made him being head of creative a precondition for selling the company.

If I take the personal angle out, surely this is the best time to sell the company when they are not too far removed from a staggering 100 dollars per share and the debt is below 50% in the recent past? but otherwise I agree he planned to do the role until his death. What have Jim and Brian said about this? their coverage of the whole thing has been fantastic

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] I had been planning to take my last exam right before the Rumble so that I would complete my tradition of streaming Royal Rumble live by waking up at 4 in the morning. But my exam is 2 days after Rumble, so guess this year, I'll have to break that streak to achieve another. Hopefully, will have a lot of time once January ends and my result comes fine. I guess for next 3 weeks, I'll be staying away from PP.

Will talk to you guys soon!

Good luck bro chat soon

 

[shaz619]

Their next PPV has the prospect to be a real banger. This match. The MITB style ladder match. Hobbs hopefully winning the All-Atlantic or TNT title in a quick squash considering the PPV will be in his hometown. Mox v Page in a gimmick match. The Elite v House of Black would actually be pretty good too. The only thing they will have to look at is that the card is not too long. Because for one thing, its impossible to have a very long card when you have a 60-minute Ironman match as the main event to begin with. WrestleMania 12 had 6 matches on the main card. Will be interesting to see who gets shafted. There certainly is no need for both the TNT and All-Atlantic titles to be defended at the PPV. Nor is there any need for that TBS Championship match to be on the card. Some matches can be relegated to the pre-show aswell.

Yup. The match should be great for MJF. And after that he can move on to Hangnail Adam Page. Who I'm guessing will beat Moxley on the PPV in a gimmick match. That feud has to be a proper one though. Because I really want MJF to rip Page apart verbally.

I am behind on AEW besides MJF/Bryan what would you say is the most compelling thing, I need to see what was happening with Starks to.

In my view the iron man match would play better on TV? what do you think? on PPV they wont cut the card to make room for it.

It would be interesting to go back and have a look at the Iron Man matches throughout history on PPV, can’t imagine there were too many.

Tony doesn’t seem like he thinks about these things, while doing coke he must be like aaaah F it lets do it!

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I am going to remain silent on this stuff.

Cause I legit have no idea what is happening or what is about to happen. So i'll just see what happens. Bro seriously, what's wrong with Saudia that makes you hate them so much. British Empire and USA have done far heinous war crimes over the course of their history. As long as they don't do any evil stuff to us, Pakistanis (and Muslims), it's all fine in my book. We still get to go for Umrah and Hajj. And there's so much employment opportunities in Saudia for Pakistani and expats. I visited Saudia in 2019, just a few weeks after Crown Jewel (that HBK return match), and the general public was pretty happy with them hosting a wrestling event. Actually they had advertised it a lot in the country so much so that common man knew about a wrestling event happening there.

i thoroughly enjoyed my stay there. Makkah and Madinah are the two most soul soothing cities in the world.

I can't speak for everyone else but I don't like Saudi Arabia for a multitude of reasons. I don't like the way they treat their women, I don't like the general curbs that exist in their society for anyone who isn't a rich Arab and I don't like their totalitarian regime. Alot of that also has to do with the fact that a number of people that I know, who have lived there, have found it to be a deeply racist country. A place where there is a literal social structure and hierarchy of people. And the respect that they are accorded is very much dependent on where they are on that totem pole. Pakistani expats in particular tend to be near the bottom end of this structure and the laborers in particular tend to be treated like sub-humans.

When it comes to being the absolute worst nobody can top the West. It will be hard for anyone to top the level of pure evil that they have committed throughout history. But when it comes to living conditions there is far more freedom in the West than there is in a place like Saudi Arabia.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

If I take the personal angle out, surely this is the best time to sell the company when they are not too far removed from a staggering 100 dollars per share and the debt is below 50% in the recent past? but otherwise I agree he planned to do the role until his death. What have Jim and Brian said about this? their coverage of the whole thing has been fantastic

I don't think they've said anything about that latest rumor. But yes, I have enjoyed their coverage. Particularly the Vince McMahon sound-effect

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I am behind on AEW besides MJF/Bryan what would you say is the most compelling thing, I need to see what was happening with Starks to.

In my view the iron man match would play better on TV? what do you think? on PPV they wont cut the card to make room for it.

It would be interesting to go back and have a look at the Iron Man matches throughout history on PPV, can’t imagine there were too many.

Tony doesn’t seem like he thinks about these things, while doing coke he must be like aaaah F it lets do it!

I think we will still be in in Week 6 of 665 of the Ricky Starks-Chris Jericho feud. AEW should add a Chris Jericho mode to their video-game. It can be like a career mode but the only difference will be that all you do in this mode is have a feud with Chris Jericho.

Funny you say that because my favorite Iron-Man matches have actually all taken place on TV. And some of the PPV ones have actually ranged from okay to mediocre, in my view. The two best 60-minute Iron-Man matches for me were Lesnar v Angle on SmackDown and Triple H v Benoit on RAW. The best Iron-Man match of recent years, Omega v PAC, also took place on Dynamite.

On the flip-side you have Orton v Cena (an absolute dud). It took place on the Bragging Rights PPV. Rock v Triple H from back in the day was also a thoroughly mediocre match with a ton of gaga...something that the Iron-Man match is designed specifically to keep out. And while I know that alot of people like Bret v Shawn at Mania, in my opinion it was a highly okay match at best.

The benefit about doing Iron-Man matches on TV is that you can time your commercial breaks perfectly to when the guys are catching their breath. Because I don't care who you are, nobody can go non-stop for 60-minutes.

Either that or he thinks too much. Remember in 2021 when a camera caught a glimpse of his notes at a Jacksonville Jaguars game? His notes were basically the Full Gear PPV card lol. Which he had to change afterwards because the PPV was a couple of months away.

 

[shaz619]

I think we will still be in in Week 6 of 665 of the Ricky Starks-Chris Jericho feud. AEW should add a Chris Jericho mode to their video-game. It can be like a career mode but the only difference will be that all you do in this mode is have a feud with Chris Jericho.

Funny you say that because my favorite Iron-Man matches have actually all taken place on TV. And some of the PPV ones have actually ranged from okay to mediocre, in my view. The two best 60-minute Iron-Man matches for me were Lesnar v Angle on SmackDown and Triple H v Benoit on RAW. The best Iron-Man match of recent years, Omega v PAC, also took place on Dynamite.

On the flip-side you have Orton v Cena (an absolute dud). It took place on the Bragging Rights PPV. Rock v Triple H from back in the day was also a thoroughly mediocre match with a ton of gaga...something that the Iron-Man match is designed specifically to keep out. And while I know that alot of people like Bret v Shawn at Mania, in my opinion it was a highly okay match at best.

The benefit about doing Iron-Man matches on TV is that you can time your commercial breaks perfectly to when the guys are catching their breath. Because I don't care who you are, nobody can go non-stop for 60-minutes.

Either that or he thinks too much. Remember in 2021 when a camera caught a glimpse of his notes at a Jacksonville Jaguars game? His notes were basically the Full Gear PPV card lol. Which he had to change afterwards because the PPV was a couple of months away.

The Bret/Shawn match is like marmite for many, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. If you never seen either guy before, that match was a great showcase of their abilities and to their credit they thought about pacing to and had the difficult task of getting that match over for the first time on a flagship PPV during WWE’s worst period, on a pure technical level it’s a masterpiece. Later matches certainly had great intensity and drama, but Shawn/Bret did eventually build towards a dramatic finishing stretch and the win for Shawn imo is one of the greatest moments in WM history, the boyhood dream came true, it’s one of those iconic images which will be replayed forever; Shawn achieved a lot, but that was arguably his crowning achievement. Smarks and casuals loved The Rock/HHH one but because HHH is in it, I am not sure it were that good but I haven’t watched it in ages. Bret/Angle is my favourite lol I think they could have gone for another hour, their shear competitiveness came out in every encounter and they took it to another level in that match, high intensity, high octane action between two once in a life time athletes who blurred the lines between fiction and reality, when they fought, it was like a shoot.

I can’t imagine either Omega or Pac in an ironman match it doesn’t get the juices flowing.

lol that sounds like he was on something in that scenario to Speaking of games, when is AEW fight forever out I was hoping it would be end of 2022

 

[shaz619]

I can't speak for everyone else but I don't like Saudi Arabia for a multitude of reasons. I don't like the way they treat their women, I don't like the general curbs that exist in their society for anyone who isn't a rich Arab and I don't like their totalitarian regime. Alot of that also has to do with the fact that a number of people that I know, who have lived there, have found it to be a deeply racist country. A place where there is a literal social structure and hierarchy of people. And the respect that they are accorded is very much dependent on where they are on that totem pole. Pakistani expats in particular tend to be near the bottom end of this structure and the laborers in particular tend to be treated like sub-humans.

When it comes to being the absolute worst nobody can top the West. It will be hard for anyone to top the level of pure evil that they have committed throughout history. But when it comes to living conditions there is far more freedom in the West than there is in a place like Saudi Arabia.

Am not a fan of the Saudi’s at all but after the western media coverage on Qatar, I find myself supporting them which was inconceivable, I am sick of the narrative over here, it’s pathetic, misinformed, biased and hypocritical. We in the UK should be the last to stand on the moral high ground.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Ospreay was always a good wrestler. but since bulking up and moving to heavyweight division, he has become an even better all round wrestler. He can still do flippy stuff, but he's limited them, he uses power based offense and some flips as well and uses in ring psychology as well. I am not bothered (actually I don't really care about how many stars an old ****** gives him) by stars, but I will definitely say he's been putting a lot of great matches for some time now. The only problem is his lack of good enough promo skills and effectively building a feud (something that doesn't happen in Japan or the indies). He used to get injured a lot, he still does but he has curbed his urges to go full insane.

One thing that gets him in trouble is his behavior on social media. Very uninhibited, very unpredictable. can do something really good and then would undo it with something a lot stupidder. Plus he has mental health issues. He has been dealing with depression and has contemplated suicide quite a few times even in his prime as a wrestler. So there are a lot of stuff that should be treated and fixed about him in this aspect.

WWE offered him contract 3 or 4 times I heard somewhere. He'd be a good commodity for them going forwards. He is young, well rounded and has presence. Promo work and gimmick, no better place than WWE for him to work on. Then, his injuries could be better managed there as well. But I think he genuinely loved Japanese wrestling.

Yeah I agree completely. He is a more complete wrestler now and has to rely less on the high-flying to stand-out. And I agree on the lack of promo skills too. He does not have much of a personality. And that New Japan environment, which does not rely much on promos and angles to build feuds has not exactly been the best place for him to work on his character.

I did not know about his mental health issues. Hope he works on them and gets better because he is a real asset to New Japan and one heck of a wrestler too.

Ignoring Uncle Dave's 6 (however many) stars, I would seriously recommend this match to you. Because both Ospreay and Omega were on top of their game for this one. Omega was performing at a level you don't see much in AEW these days, and something closer to what he was performing at when he was at his peak in New Japan. Ospreay was also completely switched on. It was a very physical and brutal match...the kind that you expect at a Tokyo Dome show and I can only imagine the state these two are in right now. A great match though and one of the best ones that New Japan has offered in recent years.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Am not a fan of the Saudi’s at all but after the western media coverage on Qatar, I find myself supporting them which was inconceivable, I am sick of the narrative over here, it’s pathetic, misinformed, biased and hypocritical. We in the UK should be the last to stand on the moral high ground.

I completely agree with you on that. And honestly, the West's coverage of the World Cup has been a real eye-opener in regards to the implicit and explicit Islamophobia that exists there. My gripe is less with Arab nations and more with Saudi.