The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[RedwoodOriginal]

The Bret/Shawn match is like marmite for many, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. If you never seen either guy before, that match was a great showcase of their abilities and to their credit they thought about pacing to and had the difficult task of getting that match over for the first time on a flagship PPV during WWE’s worst period, on a pure technical level it’s a masterpiece. Later matches certainly had great intensity and drama, but Shawn/Bret did eventually build towards a dramatic finishing stretch and the win for Shawn imo is one of the greatest moments in WM history, the boyhood dream came true, it’s one of those iconic images which will be replayed forever; Shawn achieved a lot, but that was arguably his crowning achievement. Smarks and casuals loved The Rock/HHH one but because HHH is in it, I am not sure it were that good but I haven’t watched it in ages. Bret/Angle is my favourite lol I think they could have gone for another hour, their shear competitiveness came out in every encounter and they took it to another level in that match, high intensity, high octane action between two once in a life time athletes who blurred the lines between fiction and reality, when they fought, it was like a shoot.

I can’t imagine either Omega or Pac in an ironman match it doesn’t get the juices flowing.

lol that sounds like he was on something in that scenario to Speaking of games, when is AEW fight forever out I was hoping it would be end of 2022

The Angle Lesnar match is unreal. And I agree completely. The pace at which these two wrestled for a 60-minute Ironman match was simply insane. I also think its probably their best or second best match (close one between that and the SummerSlam match).

Its actually a great match that I would highly recommend. Probably one of the best in AEW's history.

So last I checked there was a December 2023 release date on the Amazon Pre-Order page. It had been changed from December 2022. I guess we can add another thing to the list of things that AEW has botched royally.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] will be real quick here just saw the 6 man eliminator match today on raw and you both guys gotta see it. There wasn't much story going into the match but it was an extremely fun fast paced match with lots of great sequences. A must watch. Haven't really been enjoying any matches much for a few months now but this match for some reason is exactly something I restarted watching WWE in 2015 properly. Great mood elating stuff. Seth, Lashley and Finn are sooooooo good at their craft. It's a shame Judgement Day's been holding Finn back at what he's actually good at, the wrestling part.

And Redwood bro, I saw the two matches of Wrestlekingdom. I liked Okada vs White but was underwhelmed a bit by Omega Ospreay match. Felt like Ospreay held back a lot and took most of the punishment. Could have been much better if they were booked as equals there. Was good to see Omega doing Japan style again but he seemed just a little slow for his standards.

 

[ex-q-zit]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Even by his own standard today’s knock was insane. Virat Kohli is a different breed &#55357;&#56336; Surely he’ll go past Tendulkar and reach 50 ODI tons?! <a href="https://t.co/Cd8sQHfCQd">pic.twitter.com/Cd8sQHfCQd</a></p>— Drew McIntyre (@DMcIntyreWWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/DMcIntyreWWE/status/1614746353267265538?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 15, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[sweep_shot]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Even by his own standard today’s knock was insane. Virat Kohli is a different breed �� Surely he’ll go past Tendulkar and reach 50 ODI tons?! <a href="https://t.co/Cd8sQHfCQd">pic.twitter.com/Cd8sQHfCQd</a></p>— Drew McIntyre (@DMcIntyreWWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/DMcIntyreWWE/status/1614746353267265538?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 15, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Didn't know Drew watch or follow cricket!

 

[sweep_shot]

The Angle Lesnar match is unreal. And I agree completely. The pace at which these two wrestled for a 60-minute Ironman match was simply insane. I also think its probably their best or second best match (close one between that and the SummerSlam match).

Its actually a great match that I would highly recommend. Probably one of the best in AEW's history.

So last I checked there was a December 2023 release date on the Amazon Pre-Order page. It had been changed from December 2022. I guess we can add another thing to the list of things that AEW has botched royally.

I remember watching that Iron-Man match. It was a really good one.

I was surprised to see WWE title changed hands at a SmakDown show. During those days, heavyweight title never changed hands during regular shows.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Didn't know Drew watch or follow cricket!

I doubt that he does. He's Scottish. This is probably to draw attention to the show they are doing in India later this year.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I remember watching that Iron-Man match. It was a really good one.

I was surprised to see WWE title changed hands at a SmakDown show. During those days, heavyweight title never changed hands during regular shows.

Yup. Neither did you see many shows back then (or today) where one match took over most of the show's runtime.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] will be real quick here just saw the 6 man eliminator match today on raw and you both guys gotta see it. There wasn't much story going into the match but it was an extremely fun fast paced match with lots of great sequences. A must watch. Haven't really been enjoying any matches much for a few months now but this match for some reason is exactly something I restarted watching WWE in 2015 properly. Great mood elating stuff. Seth, Lashley and Finn are sooooooo good at their craft. It's a shame Judgement Day's been holding Finn back at what he's actually good at, the wrestling part.

And Redwood bro, I saw the two matches of Wrestlekingdom. I liked Okada vs White but was underwhelmed a bit by Omega Ospreay match. Felt like Ospreay held back a lot and took most of the punishment. Could have been much better if they were booked as equals there. Was good to see Omega doing Japan style again but he seemed just a little slow for his standards.

I managed to muddle my way through most of RAW this week but fell asleep right before the main-event. Hopefully I'll catch up on it tonight. RAW for me has not exactly been an easy watch these days. The quality has gone down drastically in the last few months. Hopefully RAW 30 next week is a bit better.

Really? Because I thought Omega took some serious punishment too. There were some nasty, nasty hits there from Ospreay although admittedly he himself took some punishment too. But to each their own I guess. Your point of Ospreay holding back might have some merit because according to Meltzer this is supposed to be the first match in a series of matches that will take place this year.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Saddened to hear about the passing of Jay Briscoe who died in a car accident last night. The imprint he and his brother have left on tag team wrestling will never be forgotten. It's a shame that despite being as good as he was, he was never able to wrestle in the biggest promotion in the world or even AEW. Just because something stupid he said on Twitter 9 years ago that he even apologized for.

At any rate, that series of matches that Dem Boyz had with FTR have immortalized them in pro-wrestling history. As has their remarkable run in ROH that began during the early 2000s and continued till today. I doubt there are two guys that personify ROH more than Jay and Mark.

Besides being a tag team great, Jay also became ROH World Champion back in 2012. Though the run was short-lived, I think it showed how much confidence and faith the company had in him.

A massive loss to pro-wrestling. Still in shock tbh. RIP Jay Briscoe.

 

[MenInG]

Wrestler Jay Briscoe has died at the age of 38 in a car accident.

According to reports in the US, the Ring Of Honor star was among two people killed in a car crash in Delaware on Tuesday.

Briscoe - real name Jamin Pugh - was described as an icon of professional wrestling who had dominated the Ring Of Honor promotion alongside his brother Mark.

In a tweet, Tony Khan, who owns All Elite Wrestling which took over Ring Of Honor in 2022, confirmed Briscoe's death.

"Sadly, Jamin Pugh has passed away," he wrote.

"Known to fans as Jay Briscoe, he was a star in ROH for over 20 years, from the first show until today.

"Jay and his brother Mark dominated ROH, reigning as champions to this day.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Saddened to hear about the passing of Jay Briscoe who died in a car accident last night. The imprint he and his brother have left on tag team wrestling will never be forgotten. It's a shame that despite being as good as he was, he was never able to wrestle in the biggest promotion in the world or even AEW. Just because something stupid he said on Twitter 9 years ago that he even apologized for.

At any rate, that series of matches that Dem Boyz had with FTR have immortalized them in pro-wrestling history. As has their remarkable run in ROH that began during the early 2000s and continued till today. I doubt there are two guys that personify ROH more than Jay and Mark.

Besides being a tag team great, Jay also became ROH World Champion back in 2012. Though the run was short-lived, I think it showed how much confidence and faith the company had in him.

A massive loss to pro-wrestling. Still in shock tbh. RIP Jay Briscoe.

This dog collar stipulation is turning out to be a curse. First Brody Lee, now Jay Briscoe.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I managed to muddle my way through most of RAW this week but fell asleep right before the main-event. Hopefully I'll catch up on it tonight. RAW for me has not exactly been an easy watch these days. The quality has gone down drastically in the last few months. Hopefully RAW 30 next week is a bit better.

Really? Because I thought Omega took some serious punishment too. There were some nasty, nasty hits there from Ospreay although admittedly he himself took some punishment too. But to each their own I guess. Your point of Ospreay holding back might have some merit because according to Meltzer this is supposed to be the first match in a series of matches that will take place this year.

Yes he did but I did feel like Ospreay holding back like Styles did against his match vs Edge at Mania last year.

There was this Benoit vs Trips Iron man match as well back in 2004 I remember which was the feud ender between the two i guess. And that edition of Raw only had that match and another 15 min battle royal for no1 contender spot that Randy won. It was hard to imagine only 2 matches on a Raw back then.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Saddened to hear about the passing of Jay Briscoe who died in a car accident last night. The imprint he and his brother have left on tag team wrestling will never be forgotten. It's a shame that despite being as good as he was, he was never able to wrestle in the biggest promotion in the world or even AEW. Just because something stupid he said on Twitter 9 years ago that he even apologized for.

At any rate, that series of matches that Dem Boyz had with FTR have immortalized them in pro-wrestling history. As has their remarkable run in ROH that began during the early 2000s and continued till today. I doubt there are two guys that personify ROH more than Jay and Mark.

Besides being a tag team great, Jay also became ROH World Champion back in 2012. Though the run was short-lived, I think it showed how much confidence and faith the company had in him.

A massive loss to pro-wrestling. Still in shock tbh. RIP Jay Briscoe.

This is horrific news to say the least, I am so shocked and devastated. I think that the last remnants of the golden era of independent wrestling and elite tag team wrestling has died with his Jay because no one else is on FTR’s level it’s like god created these two teams to do battle till the bitter end. But I feel among pursuits and his peer’s, the mark he has left will not be forgotten despite not working for a high profile company; in a way, his style was too violent for any of the wimpy gymnastics companies of today and I mean that in the best possible light

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This is horrific news to say the least, I am so shocked and devastated. I think that the last remnants of the golden era of independent wrestling and elite tag team wrestling has died with his Jay because no one else is on FTR’s level it’s like god created these two teams to do battle till the bitter end. But I feel among pursuits and his peer’s, the mark he has left will not be forgotten despite not working for a high profile company; in a way, his style was too violent for any of the wimpy gymnastics companies of today and I mean that in the best possible light

Couldn't have summed it up in a more beautiful way, brother. What a loss. Pro-wrestling has lost one heck of a talent. And by all accounts, a pretty swell guy.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] will be real quick here just saw the 6 man eliminator match today on raw and you both guys gotta see it. There wasn't much story going into the match but it was an extremely fun fast paced match with lots of great sequences. A must watch. Haven't really been enjoying any matches much for a few months now but this match for some reason is exactly something I restarted watching WWE in 2015 properly. Great mood elating stuff. Seth, Lashley and Finn are sooooooo good at their craft. It's a shame Judgement Day's been holding Finn back at what he's actually good at, the wrestling part.

And Redwood bro, I saw the two matches of Wrestlekingdom. I liked Okada vs White but was underwhelmed a bit by Omega Ospreay match. Felt like Ospreay held back a lot and took most of the punishment. Could have been much better if they were booked as equals there. Was good to see Omega doing Japan style again but he seemed just a little slow for his standards.

It was a fun little match going by YT highlights. The super kick from Seth at the end there on MVP was one of the best I've seen in a while, HBK would be proud of that one.

I've not been motivated to watch WK this year, I feel the novelty wears off a bit when the same two people wrestle again and again / do the same sort of match.

 

[shaz619]

Are they teasing a Hurt Business reformation but with Omos in it ?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It was a fun little match going by YT highlights. The super kick from Seth at the end there on MVP was one of the best I've seen in a while, HBK would be proud of that one.

I've not been motivated to watch WK this year, I feel the novelty wears off a bit when the same two people wrestle again and again / do the same sort of match.

With WK, they're doing with Okada what WWE did with Hogan and Cena. Putting him in every single main event and having him go over. With WWE the mark community lead by the CEO Idiot Meltzer hate WWE for that but for NJPW it is some genius move.

 

[shaz619]

I thought Gunther v Strowman was great recently, Braun gets a lot of stick just for being big when he is quiet talented for a man his size, he is actually pretty agile. He has been working a certain way because that’s what you come to expect or you can’t suspend disbelief but with an opponent like Gunther, and I know he has great matches with everyone but you are able to show a bit more because it makes more sense to do so

 

[shaz619]

With WK, they're doing with Okada what WWE did with Hogan and Cena. Putting him in every single main event and having him go over. With WWE the mark community lead by the CEO Idiot Meltzer hate WWE for that but for NJPW it is some genius move.

And am a big fan of Okada but I agree with you, the superman booking over there is justified by then. Perhaps it’s more accepted because they don’t work as much but it’s doing the same thing again and again becomes tiring, give me fresh stars and challenges, who wants to see Okada/White for the umpteenth time on a flagship show?

 

[shaz619]

Couldn't have summed it up in a more beautiful way, brother. What a loss. Pro-wrestling has lost one heck of a talent. And by all accounts, a pretty swell guy.

Jim spoke about his death for an hour on his pod apparently can’t wait to check it out.

 

[shaz619]

I recall us talking about AEW’s training facility and it being non-existent but that Punk was a great help, I said that with confidence but it is being more and more reinforced by wrestlers proving it, Jade Cargill for example said he has been a huge inspiration in the womens locker room, he literally has mentored them and Jade learned how to use a chair from Punk of all people, the confidence this guy instils in these guys is amazing for those with no egos

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Are they teasing a Hurt Business reformation but with Omos in it ?

Yeah seems like it. Wouldn't be the worst idea. They broke up The Hurt Business way too early and ever since Lashley split from MVP, he's basically been twisting in the wind on promos. Plus, the less you can expose Omos to actual matches and put over his size, the better. Being in a group would lessen his exposure to matches and position him as the enforcer of the group.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I thought Gunther v Strowman was great recently, Braun gets a lot of stick just for being big when he is quiet talented for a man his size, he is actually pretty agile. He has been working a certain way because that’s what you come to expect or you can’t suspend disbelief but with an opponent like Gunther, and I know he has great matches with everyone but you are able to show a bit more because it makes more sense to do so

I thought it was alright. Credit to Gunther who tried his best here and had the most logical match possible. But I thought it went on way too long. Not a fan of Braun or his work and this didn't do anything to change my mind.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

And am a big fan of Okada but I agree with you, the superman booking over there is justified by then. Perhaps it’s more accepted because they don’t work as much but it’s doing the same thing again and again becomes tiring, give me fresh stars and challenges, who wants to see Okada/White for the umpteenth time on a flagship show?

With WK, they're doing with Okada what WWE did with Hogan and Cena. Putting him in every single main event and having him go over. With WWE the mark community lead by the CEO Idiot Meltzer hate WWE for that but for NJPW it is some genius move.

I agree with you guys but I think at the same time we also have to factor in the fact that NJPW does not have alot of big stars on their roster anymore. Tanahashi is winding down, Jay White is on his way out, Naito is not going to be pushed at that level. No idea what's up with Ibushi or if he's even there anymore.

Ospreay is basically the only other guy that they can push at that level. There's Takagi too but I don't think anyone sees him as a major star at the moment. One guy they should push imo is Jeff Cobb. There's always a place for Vader-like monster/big man heel in Japan. Especially now that Bronson Reed has left too. And Cobb's work is fairly good too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Jim spoke about his death for an hour on his pod apparently can’t wait to check it out.

It was a really heartfelt and emotional tribute. Jim even teared up reading an email that a listener who lives in The Briscoes area sent. I had no idea that Jim had such a history with the two brothers. It was nice to hear him talk about his experiences with them. All accounts pointed to Jay being an absolutely great guy that was pretty much universally beloved by fans and wrestlers alike.

Also came across to me that there was little difference between who The Briscoes were in real-life and who they were in the ring.

I can't believe that AEW were not allowed to do a Jay Briscoe Tribute Show on TV. Even after the guy has passed away. Because that unnamed ************* TBS executive didn't let it happen! According to Meltzer, AEW apparently tried to get The Briscoes on TV multiple times, flew them to Dynamite and even tried to go through a loophole and put them straight on PPV at All Out in a 6 man tag against FTR and Wardlow. None of it was allowed to go through. And the person responsible for it all is apparently a coward at TBS who doesn't want their name to be revealed.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I recall us talking about AEW’s training facility and it being non-existent but that Punk was a great help, I said that with confidence but it is being more and more reinforced by wrestlers proving it, Jade Cargill for example said he has been a huge inspiration in the womens locker room, he literally has mentored them and Jade learned how to use a chair from Punk of all people, the confidence this guy instils in these guys is amazing for those with no egos

The narrative in this entire back and forth has been really interesting. On one side you have the Bucks who are feeding their version of the truth to Meltzer and mobilizing their friends, and the marks are buying into it all like gospel. On the other side you have Punk who hasn't fed anything to Meltzer nor told his friends to come out and speak in support of him. And yet people are still organically speaking about what a positive influence he was.

I don't think we should give up hope of seeing Punk in AEW again. Yeah, he still has nuclear heat with alot of members of the locker-room and the fans. And to be perfectly honest, if he comes back I think he needs to make amends to the locker-room. Even if you forget what he said about the Bucks and Page in that presser, he really made the company look bad and that's not something that even a massive Punk fan like myself can defend.

That said, it does seem like there is an indication from his side to hash things out. There's no telling what the reaction will be three months from now. It's very likely that things will have cooled down by then. I personally think, it all could go down to The Bucks. If they are smart enough move past this and see the money in The Elite v PunkFTR than we could see something incredible.

If it was anyone else this would be a no-brainer, but the Bucks have pretty much made a career out of wrestling in warehouses, backyards, rec. centers and event halls while getting over with the small group of marks they call their fans. So for me, everything points towards them trying their best to keep Punk out. Especially now that they have engineered the narrative to favor them.

Tony on the other hand, might try to bring Punk back. Not only because he is a big Punk mark who has wanted Punk from Day 1 (back when AEW was even launched) but also because he knows how much better Punk made his product and what a difference he made on his business. I mean Tony himself was screaming out all the Punk stats in one of the earlier press scrums (DoN I think).

Let's hope Tony finally grows a pair and makes his employees understand what's best for business, rather than what's best for them.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Gotta say, AEW has been on a bit of a run as of late. They've been putting on some great shows for a number of weeks now. And the match-quality on some has been off the charts.

Special shout-out to Mox v Page, which was an old-school wrestling match that was surprisingly on-point from a psychology stand-point...The Elite v Death Triangle in a Ladder match which was a super fun and exciting car crash...Danielson v Takeshita which was just amazing.

But by far the best wrestling match that I saw on TV in the last month was Bryan Danielson v Bandido on last week's Dynamite. Holy heck what a match!

 

[shaz619]

The narrative in this entire back and forth has been really interesting. On one side you have the Bucks who are feeding their version of the truth to Meltzer and mobilizing their friends, and the marks are buying into it all like gospel. On the other side you have Punk who hasn't fed anything to Meltzer nor told his friends to come out and speak in support of him. And yet people are still organically speaking about what a positive influence he was.

I don't think we should give up hope of seeing Punk in AEW again. Yeah, he still has nuclear heat with alot of members of the locker-room and the fans. And to be perfectly honest, if he comes back I think he needs to make amends to the locker-room. Even if you forget what he said about the Bucks and Page in that presser, he really made the company look bad and that's not something that even a massive Punk fan like myself can defend.

That said, it does seem like there is an indication from his side to hash things out. There's no telling what the reaction will be three months from now. It's very likely that things will have cooled down by then. I personally think, it all could go down to The Bucks. If they are smart enough move past this and see the money in The Elite v PunkFTR than we could see something incredible.

If it was anyone else this would be a no-brainer, but the Bucks have pretty much made a career out of wrestling in warehouses, backyards, rec. centers and event halls while getting over with the small group of marks they call their fans. So for me, everything points towards them trying their best to keep Punk out. Especially now that they have engineered the narrative to favor them.

Tony on the other hand, might try to bring Punk back. Not only because he is a big Punk mark who has wanted Punk from Day 1 (back when AEW was even launched) but also because he knows how much better Punk made his product and what a difference he made on his business. I mean Tony himself was screaming out all the Punk stats in one of the earlier press scrums (DoN I think).

Let's hope Tony finally grows a pair and makes his employees understand what's best for business, rather than what's best for them.

Punk doesn’t need to make amends with anyone really, he’s the star remember, he’s the one who they should appease if anything. Besides, who exactly in the locker room does he need to apologise to? he spoke the truth, those who got upset by him exposing their politics certainly don’t deserve any apologies whether it’s that dumb phuck, Jericho or the elite (this bunch got triggered the most backstage). If there is somebody who you can make a case for is perhaps Tony Khan and even then Punk has all the leverage, but Khan doesn’t have my sympathies due to his lack of leadership. AEW have only themselves to blame.

Yeah I still think it’s in AEW’s interest to keep Punk around and I feel with time maybe they will all work things out, if he’s to return at least the lines would have been drawn, don’t mess with Punk and think you will get away with it, or worse you might get chinned

 

[shaz619]

I thought it was alright. Credit to Gunther who tried his best here and had the most logical match possible. But I thought it went on way too long. Not a fan of Braun or his work and this didn't do anything to change my mind.

What’s the ceiling with Braun and what are the stylistic expectations ? who off that size can work better then him today?

Speaking of New Japan and their lack of stars, I think it would be interesting to see him work there and could add to his arsenal

 

[shaz619]

SvR 2006, I always played this on PSP, but on PS2 with the enhanced graphics and JR on commentary, it feels a different game!

Here Comes The Pain though, honestly the gameplay is just outstanding and the greatest in the PS2 era of released

 

[shaz619]

Gotta say, AEW has been on a bit of a run as of late. They've been putting on some great shows for a number of weeks now. And the match-quality on some has been off the charts.

Special shout-out to Mox v Page, which was an old-school wrestling match that was surprisingly on-point from a psychology stand-point...The Elite v Death Triangle in a Ladder match which was a super fun and exciting car crash...Danielson v Takeshita which was just amazing.

But by far the best wrestling match that I saw on TV in the last month was Bryan Danielson v Bandido on last week's Dynamite. Holy heck what a match!

I will check it out on YT, I find it harder and harder to keep up these days. But I will go out of my way to watch MJF v Bryan 60 min Iron Man Match and the RR on PPV

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Punk doesn’t need to make amends with anyone really, he’s the star remember, he’s the one who they should appease if anything. Besides, who exactly in the locker room does he need to apologise to? he spoke the truth, those who got upset by him exposing their politics certainly don’t deserve any apologies whether it’s that dumb phuck, Jericho or the elite (this bunch got triggered the most backstage). If there is somebody who you can make a case for is perhaps Tony Khan and even then Punk has all the leverage, but Khan doesn’t have my sympathies due to his lack of leadership. AEW have only themselves to blame.

Yeah I still think it’s in AEW’s interest to keep Punk around and I feel with time maybe they will all work things out, if he’s to return at least the lines would have been drawn, don’t mess with Punk and think you will get away with it, or worse you might get chinned

Well in my opinion, his behavior in the press scrum was very unprofessional. Part of me respects him for saying his peace and not caring what other people think. But the other part recognizes that that was not the place to launch into a diatribe in which he buried the company and caused alot of damage from perception stand-point. Tony lacks leadership, yes. You could even say that as a warden he fails to keep his inmates in-check, but he did nothing to deserve that. Yeah, Punk does not need to do this. He does not need the money and AEW needs him more than he needs AEW. But could Punk have had this incredible run, anywhere else? No. Because there is no other place where he would have been accorded this kind of creative freedom. Without AEW you don't get one of the greatest babyface runs of the modern era. Which is why the man who had the biggest hand in enabling that deserved better.

When you think about it from a PR stand-point, its quite literally the worst case scenario for you as a promoter. Your biggest star sitting right next to you, burying your company.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What’s the ceiling with Braun and what are the stylistic expectations ? who off that size can work better then him today?

Speaking of New Japan and their lack of stars, I think it would be interesting to see him work there and could add to his arsenal

Honestly, I don't think there is a particularly high ceiling with guys like that. I don't believe guys who are that tall and big can be good wrestlers. And history has shown us that. The best way to book guys like Braun is to book them sparingly to preserve their aura and when you do, book them in hard-hitting, big move matches or squash matches

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

SvR 2006, I always played this on PSP, but on PS2 with the enhanced graphics and JR on commentary, it feels a different game!

Here Comes The Pain though, honestly the gameplay is just outstanding and the greatest in the PS2 era of released

Forgot to mention, I started playing WWE 2K22 yesterday. So far, I have only played the GM Mode but already I am liking it a million times better than pretty much any other WWE 2K game. Will give an update on the other modes once I play them. The GM Mode is good. They've kept the integral elements of the GM Mode from the SvR days and added some new elements.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I will check it out on YT, I find it harder and harder to keep up these days. But I will go out of my way to watch MJF v Bryan 60 min Iron Man Match and the RR on PPV

This is definitely a match worth seeking out. I've seen Bandido's work in New Japan and PWG, but this is the match that sold me on how talented he was. Because he wasn't out there trying to run a sprint and do every crazy flip and dive. It was a proper wrestling match and had a lot of mat-based lucha libre too, which you don't see enough of nowadays ever since the gymnasts took over. Just goes to show what a difference a great opponent can make.

After this match I'm starting to think that Bryan might just get a good and coherent match out of Brian Cage too.

 

[shaz619]

Well in my opinion, his behavior in the press scrum was very unprofessional. Part of me respects him for saying his peace and not caring what other people think. But the other part recognizes that that was not the place to launch into a diatribe in which he buried the company and caused alot of damage from perception stand-point. Tony lacks leadership, yes. You could even say that as a warden he fails to keep his inmates in-check, but he did nothing to deserve that. Yeah, Punk does not need to do this. He does not need the money and AEW needs him more than he needs AEW. But could Punk have had this incredible run, anywhere else? No. Because there is no other place where he would have been accorded this kind of creative freedom. Without AEW you don't get one of the greatest babyface runs of the modern era. Which is why the man who had the biggest hand in enabling that deserved better.

When you think about it from a PR stand-point, its quite literally the worst case scenario for you as a promoter. Your biggest star sitting right next to you, burying your company.

The guy just had a big match and was hurt, right after it he got stuck in a presser when not exactly in the best of moods considering the unprofessionalism he had to deal with well before that event and in fact deep rooted issues Khan refused to deal with so in a way he did deserve it because he is now forced to take action which would be better for the product and fans. Am not surprised by the outcome, it wasn’t the first or last time a presser would go the way it did in such a situation. His attacks were targeted and specific, he didn’t bury the company as a whole. Sure it could have been dealt with behind the scenes but look at it this way, there was so much dirt being smeared on Punk in the media that an answer from Punk was going to be expected from someone so outspoken, Tony looked like an idiot because he was right next to him and didn’t do anything but what was stopping him from refuting all the rubbish about Punk, personally it was also a bigger attack on the media and I feel they need to be held accountable to which was refreshing. Punk picked his spot beautifully, the heat on him is brilliant.

Punk doesn’t need AEW and I agree he may not have had such a run elsewhere but I’d like for Khan ideally to continue that and improve as a leader so these things are avoided.

 

[shaz619]

Forgot to mention, I started playing WWE 2K22 yesterday. So far, I have only played the GM Mode but already I am liking it a million times better than pretty much any other WWE 2K game. Will give an update on the other modes once I play them. The GM Mode is good. They've kept the integral elements of the GM Mode from the SvR days and added some new elements.

What is the gameplay like in 2k22? I’ve not touched 2k series since the one with Lesnar on the cover. I never played SvR 06 before on PS2 emulation, but it looks great.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The guy just had a big match and was hurt, right after it he got stuck in a presser when not exactly in the best of moods considering the unprofessionalism he had to deal with well before that event and in fact deep rooted issues Khan refused to deal with so in a way he did deserve it because he is now forced to take action which would be better for the product and fans. Am not surprised by the outcome, it wasn’t the first or last time a presser would go the way it did in such a situation. His attacks were targeted and specific, he didn’t bury the company as a whole. Sure it could have been dealt with behind the scenes but look at it this way, there was so much dirt being smeared on Punk in the media that an answer from Punk was going to be expected from someone so outspoken, Tony looked like an idiot because he was right next to him and didn’t do anything but what was stopping him from refuting all the rubbish about Punk, personally it was also a bigger attack on the media and I feel they need to be held accountable to which was refreshing. Punk picked his spot beautifully, the heat on him is brilliant.

Punk doesn’t need AEW and I agree he may not have had such a run elsewhere but I’d like for Khan ideally to continue that and improve as a leader so these things are avoided.

I'm not denying Tony's culpability in any of this. He should have mustered the guts to stop Punk from blowing off like that.

As for Punk, bringing yourself down to the level of low-grade individuals reflects worse on you than it does on them. I also believe that as a senior pro and by and far the biggest star in that company he had a responsibility to hold himself to a higher standard than the others. Which is something I feel he failed at in that instance.

There were a number of other ways Punk could have said what he wanted to say. Ways that may not have turned the fans and members of the locker-room against him, or jeopardized his AEW run.

The dirt being smeared on him was indeed disgusting. As is the narrative that is being floated currently by the same wrestling media. But did Punk's tirade really do anything to solve the issue that existed, or did it create a multitude of other issues with far-ranging consequences?

Like I said, part of respects him for saying what he said without caring what other people think. The other part of me questions if he was cognizant enough of the long-term impact of his words.

 

[shaz619]

I'm not denying Tony's culpability in any of this. He should have mustered the guts to stop Punk from blowing off like that.

As for Punk, bringing yourself down to the level of low-grade individuals reflects worse on you than it does on them. I also believe that as a senior pro and by and far the biggest star in that company he had a responsibility to hold himself to a higher standard than the others. Which is something I feel he failed at in that instance.

There were a number of other ways Punk could have said what he wanted to say. Ways that may not have turned the fans and members of the locker-room against him, or jeopardized his AEW run.

The dirt being smeared on him was indeed disgusting. As is the narrative that is being floated currently by the same wrestling media. But did Punk's tirade really do anything to solve the issue that existed, or did it create a multitude of other issues with far-ranging consequences?

Like I said, part of respects him for saying what he said without caring what other people think. The other part of me questions if he was cognizant enough of the long-term impact of his words.

Higher standards need to be expected from the leader of the company and so called EVP’s, TK gets away with almost every fallacy in AEW. Signing Punk and thinking he will be a yes sir no sir type of guy is wishful to say the least, and as I said I believe they were well past the “number of other ways” phase due to Khan’s lack of authority. Apart from Cena, Taker and Sting, there is no other major “star” this century who values that standard above everything even when the chips are down. If you poke a Bear like Punk, expect a reaction. I feel Punk gave Khan plenty of time, heck he gave that dumb phuck a chance to. It’s a bigger embarrassment for the company that the EVP’s cause so much disruption backstage and even worse how they reacted to the whole thing despite their so called titles.

In my opinion, exposing the Ellite and the bias in the media was the best thing that could have happened. I feel Khan was forced to take some action and there has been some support for Punk’s grievances to and also the maligning of his image has been downplayed. As a wrestling fan, it was also brilliant because with him being out so long, he is still talked about and has tremendous heat. I don’t think he gives two hoots for what those fans think of him.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What is the gameplay like in 2k22? I’ve not touched 2k series since the one with Lesnar on the cover. I never played SvR 06 before on PS2 emulation, but it looks great.

I quite liked the gameplay. Very smooth and the graphics are good too. I feel like they have fine-tuned the gameplay a bit after the debacle of WWE 2K20. I forgot to mention WWE 2K18, which was probably the last good game they made. I need to play the Showcase mode and the Career mode to get a better gauge of how good this is. But really liking it so far.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Higher standards need to be expected from the leader of the company and so called EVP’s, TK gets away with almost every fallacy in AEW. Signing Punk and thinking he will be a yes sir no sir type of guy is wishful to say the least, and as I said I believe they were well past the “number of other ways” phase due to Khan’s lack of authority. Apart from Cena, Taker and Sting, there is no other major “star” this century who values that standard above everything even when the chips are down. If you poke a Bear like Punk, expect a reaction. I feel Punk gave Khan plenty of time, heck he gave that dumb phuck a chance to. It’s a bigger embarrassment for the company that the EVP’s cause so much disruption backstage and even worse how they reacted to the whole thing despite their so called titles.

In my opinion, exposing the Ellite and the bias in the media was the best thing that could have happened. I feel Khan was forced to take some action and there has been some support for Punk’s grievances to and also the maligning of his image has been downplayed. As a wrestling fan, it was also brilliant because with him being out so long, he is still talked about and has tremendous heat. I don’t think he gives two hoots for what those fans think of him.

Those idiots are not leaders. If anything, they should have been stripped of their titles in the aftermath of this brawl. The fact that they still have those titles is a damning indictment of AEW as a company. As is Adam Page's employment status. Which is why I don't even want to compare them to Punk.

Nothing you say is incorrect. Infact I agree with just about everything in principle. But I don't feel that Punk came out of this better because the majority of the AEW fans (regardless of what you may think of them) have turned against him. Which is why I would argue that his image has been left damaged because of this, rather than improved. The B.S. they were whispering behind his back was not really anything that damaged his image. What he said and did here did.

At the end of the day, the people who believed that The Elite are backbiting ****** still believe that, but their fanbase has only become more emboldened after this. The thing that saddens me most is that we may not get to see him in AEW ever again. And for that, the biggest blame lies on Punk. Not just for what he said in that press scrum but also for failing to control his temper and beating those idiots up, who very clearly goaded him into doing so.

Had this been the 70s or 80s, it would have been a completely different story. But a guy like Punk, who is generally very self-aware, should have known what the potential consequences of that presser and brawl would likely be.

 

[shaz619]

Those idiots are not leaders. If anything, they should have been stripped of their titles in the aftermath of this brawl. The fact that they still have those titles is a damning indictment of AEW as a company. As is Adam Page's employment status. Which is why I don't even want to compare them to Punk.

Nothing you say is incorrect. Infact I agree with just about everything in principle. But I don't feel that Punk came out of this better because the majority of the AEW fans (regardless of what you may think of them) have turned against him. Which is why I would argue that his image has been left damaged because of this, rather than improved. The B.S. they were whispering behind his back was not really anything that damaged his image. What he said and did here did.

At the end of the day, the people who believed that The Elite are backbiting ****** still believe that, but their fanbase has only become more emboldened after this. The thing that saddens me most is that we may not get to see him in AEW ever again. And for that, the biggest blame lies on Punk. Not just for what he said in that press scrum but also for failing to control his temper and beating those idiots up, who very clearly goaded him into doing so.

Had this been the 70s or 80s, it would have been a completely different story. But a guy like Punk, who is generally very self-aware, should have known what the potential consequences of that presser and brawl would likely be.

Image in wrestling is subjective, if anything their reaction to it all justifies it given the heat. Punk has always been a guy people love to hate predominately and I doubt he has ever cared for how they perceive him, especially since whether right or wrong Punk is an extremely self righteous guy and he tends to give a middle finger to the fans who have any sort of expectations from him on a personal level, he loves wrestling but the business and fans are one big joke, it’s all silly in his own words but ot’s still in his blood. And ignoring that, I think he has received more support in recent times regardless and I’ve seen the Elite get more criticisms.

I disagree that it’s Punk’s fault entirely, I would put the blame 40% on TK, 50% on The Elite and 10% on Punk. Diplomacy could yet bring Punk back and at end of the day, TK would be a ***** not to capitalise on the situation and take advantage of the molten heat, on a guy like Punk it’s a gold mine. If not, it’s TK’s loss and sadly, ours to. Win win for Punk, he will still eat and be happy doing whatever gets his juices flowing next, I am a big horror fan and thought The Girl On The Third floor was brilliant

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Image in wrestling is subjective, if anything their reaction to it all justifies it given the heat. Punk has always been a guy people love to hate predominately and I doubt he has ever cared for how they perceive him, especially since whether right or wrong Punk is an extremely self righteous guy and he tends to give a middle finger to the fans who have any sort of expectations from him on a personal level, he loves wrestling but the business and fans are one big joke, it’s all silly in his own words but ot’s still in his blood. And ignoring that, I think he has received more support in recent times regardless and I’ve seen the Elite get more criticisms.

I disagree that it’s Punk’s fault entirely, I would put the blame 40% on TK, 50% on The Elite and 10% on Punk. Diplomacy could yet bring Punk back and at end of the day, TK would be a ***** not to capitalise on the situation and take advantage of the molten heat, on a guy like Punk it’s a gold mine. If not, it’s TK’s loss and sadly, ours to. Win win for Punk, he will still eat and be happy doing whatever gets his juices flowing next, I am a big horror fan and thought The Girl On The Third floor was brilliant

He is. And I quite admire that about him. To be that principled and strong in your beliefs. That shows his character. But that can also cut both ways and create situations of conflict when every hill (or every other hill) is your hill to die on.

And you're right. I shouldn't have worded that line the way I did. Punk is not to blame entirely for this situation. If anything, the biggest blame lies on that empty headed dumbf**k for opening his trap based on some second-hand, unsubstantiated hearsay he heard around or read in the dirt sheets. It still boggles my mind that this idiot went out on national TV and said this while he was World Champion, without even verifying it from Tony who was probably sitting right next to the entrance he walked out of when he went to the ring.

At any rate, what you or I may think about what has already happened, what's done is done. No one can go back in time and change what happened. But you're right in that if they don't capitalize on the situation now it would be absolutely bonkers and stupid. Because the opportunity is there to finally do something that blurs the lines between reality and fiction. And as we know, that is where wrestling has always been best.

Hopefully there is some diplomacy and he is brought back. For the sake of professional-wrestling, if not anything else.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It looks like the hate mail got to Warner Brothers Discovery. Because Mark Briscoe is wrestling Jay Lethal on Dynamite this week in a tribute match to Jay Briscoe. Really hoping AEW pay tribute to Jay in the right way. And credit to Tony Khan for making this happen, and constantly pushing for it. We take shots at him for alot of things, and rightfully so. But some of the good things that he does need to be appreciated in equal measure as well. Can't wait to see this match.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

RAW XXX was a pretty fun show. Obviously a show like this was never going to be about high work-rate matches. It was always going to be more of a segments show and I thought almost all the segments on this show were all brilliant.

First you had the Bloodline segment which continues to build the story. I think we are finally starting to see the seeds being laid. Just an opinion, but I think that the turn should come when we least expect it ala the Jericho/Owens Festival of Friendship. It should come after Sami has cleared his "biggest test" at the Rumble on Saturday.

The best thing on the show was by far The Undertaker/Bray Wyatt segment. Just beautifully executed from start to finish. Feel bad for poor LA Knight who had to be in the middle of this. But it wouldn't have made sense if it was anyone else. This for me was one of the perfect examples of doing something involving a legend and a current star. As opposed to the nWo and DX coming out and just killing FTR.

Speaking of DX, their segment was pretty fun too. Not sure if bringing Angle out there was a thinly-veiled shot at AEW or not. May have been. But the segment itself was actually pretty funny...rather than being juvenile and stupid like most DX promos/segments in the last 25 years.

Skipped past the Charlotte segment because it was going nowhere and I had to finish this show.

And finally we had the baddest cowboy south of Canada walking out in the main-event to cost Bobby Lashley the US title yet again. If they are building to another Brock v Lashley match then I gotta say that its a hard pass for me. We've seen them wrestle twice and it was nothing to write home about. I'd rather see Brock against Gunther and Lashley in some other fresh match-up. Especially if they are thinking of putting this match on at Mania.

 

[shaz619]

RAW XXX was a pretty fun show. Obviously a show like this was never going to be about high work-rate matches. It was always going to be more of a segments show and I thought almost all the segments on this show were all brilliant.

First you had the Bloodline segment which continues to build the story. I think we are finally starting to see the seeds being laid. Just an opinion, but I think that the turn should come when we least expect it ala the Jericho/Owens Festival of Friendship. It should come after Sami has cleared his "biggest test" at the Rumble on Saturday.

The best thing on the show was by far The Undertaker/Bray Wyatt segment. Just beautifully executed from start to finish. Feel bad for poor LA Knight who had to be in the middle of this. But it wouldn't have made sense if it was anyone else. This for me was one of the perfect examples of doing something involving a legend and a current star. As opposed to the nWo and DX coming out and just killing FTR.

Speaking of DX, their segment was pretty fun too. Not sure if bringing Angle out there was a thinly-veiled shot at AEW or not. May have been. But the segment itself was actually pretty funny...rather than being juvenile and stupid like most DX promos/segments in the last 25 years.

Skipped past the Charlotte segment because it was going nowhere and I had to finish this show.

And finally we had the baddest cowboy south of Canada walking out in the main-event to cost Bobby Lashley the US title yet again. If they are building to another Brock v Lashley match then I gotta say that its a hard pass for me. We've seen them wrestle twice and it was nothing to write home about. I'd rather see Brock against Gunther and Lashley in some other fresh match-up. Especially if they are thinking of putting this match on at Mania.

I haven’t watched any wrestling show for more than 30-40 min at best outside the YT highlights but the first few hours of this I was hooked. This was the best episode off TV I have seen in a long time, I don’t think RAW should be 3 hours but if it is, this should be the template.

The opening hour was one of the finest pieces of storytelling in modern RAW history, Oscar season has come in time because each member of the bloodline deserves a friggin Academy Award, this is the bread and butter of wrestling, if there’s a casual out there, first thing I’d tell them to go watch is the trial of Sami Zayn, my god what a thrilling performance from him LOL it was so masterful and it weaved into title defence superbly, am not sure but the free bird rule in theory may have applied here and the crowd went bezerk after he helped them retained the titles which by the way wasn’t a foregone conclusion and in doing so progressed the narrative beautifully! I am excited for the RR and how things play out with this angle!

Don’t feel so bad for L.A Knight at all, he shared the ring with a living legend and got to shine on the mic, it was one hell of a promo from a guy who deserves more cred then he gets, I’ve been so impressed with him in his first major feud on TV, it’s never easy making the transition to the big leagues but he has felt so at home and the guy is so charismatic. I marked the hell out when Taker came on the bike, this is one persona among his many incarnations which I feel will age nicely as he gets older! but man, watching that I just felt so much gratitude, we got to live through his prime years and what a run it was and seeing Bray get the rub, was so awesome, an amazing moment!

I agree with you on the main event but I was surprised by the return of Lesnar and as a segment it was great! Yes I hope we do get Gunther/Lesnar sooner rather than later but there have been some whispers that Lesnar has been proposed to Austin, even if that were true I hope we still get the Gunther match and in my view, a younger star should be used for an Austin match, am not confident he will accept Lesnar but if he does, then I am still hopeful it could work because Austin has a high ring IQ and amazing awareness between the ropes.

I am sick of DX reunions and more than that, I hate seeing Shawn in there when he is a bigger star then all of them combined, plus I much rather sing to his theme song which we don’t hear often anymore, Shawn could be utilised so much better with other members of the roster but is supremely wasted here. Hunter is the King off thinly veiled attacks so wouldn’t shock me, I was happy to see Angle and I feel he made the segment work

 

[shaz619]

It looks like the hate mail got to Warner Brothers Discovery. Because Mark Briscoe is wrestling Jay Lethal on Dynamite this week in a tribute match to Jay Briscoe. Really hoping AEW pay tribute to Jay in the right way. And credit to Tony Khan for making this happen, and constantly pushing for it. We take shots at him for alot of things, and rightfully so. But some of the good things that he does need to be appreciated in equal measure as well. Can't wait to see this match.

What’s the angle with Warner? am not so familiar

 

[shaz619]

I quite liked the gameplay. Very smooth and the graphics are good too. I feel like they have fine-tuned the gameplay a bit after the debacle of WWE 2K20. I forgot to mention WWE 2K18, which was probably the last good game they made. I need to play the Showcase mode and the Career mode to get a better gauge of how good this is. But really liking it so far.

Am really disconnected and burned out from WWE 2K gameplay, it may be polished etc but since Here Comes The Pain, I don’t feel a lot has changed? there is no addiction imo or repeat value, which is why I still go back to the classics. I hope the AEW game is great, was so excited for it and if it is successful, it will force 2K to pick their standards up although it is difficult in a short window, they had a lot of time to develop 2k 22 though and while it’s good, am not sure the reception is on the ATG level

 

[shaz619]

The Charlotte segment could have been better but I always get goosebumps whenever I see Ric, and it hits you in the feels when he introduced his daughter. Charlotte never wanted to be pro wrestler, he entire career is a tribute to Reid. And I am in agreement with Ric that she is the best womens in-ring performer of all time, in fact I love her work so much that P4P I’d put her right up there with the best names regardless of gender. The intensity in her matches is rarely matched, and her mannerisms do her father so much justice and more. She really does have the gene when she is that good and didn’t intend to get into the business and when you see all the sacrifice Flair has made, all the blood/sweat/tears for us fans in an an extremely unforgiving environment, am happy he has Charlotte. I know Jake is a bit better now, but just look at all the relations which were tarnished in his life, speaking off which, it always makes me smile to see DDP!

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What’s the angle with Warner? am not so familiar

So Jay Briscoe made some homophobic comments on Twitter like 10 years ago. Comments that he not only apologized for later, but also made amends for by donating to LGBTQ charities. For WWE and Warner Brothers Discovery that was not enough. WWE didn't hire him and his brother (who was faultless in all of this) because of that.

An unnamed executive at WBD apparently made sure that The Briscoes were not featured in any capacity on their networks because of these same comments. All while an ex-con deathmatch wrestler who once robbed a bank without even wearing a mask (Nick Gage), was allowed to main-event Dynamite.

Not to mention, all the other people with significantly unsavory pasts that feature on their networks. Infact if we are looking at past indiscretions, let's not forget Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist. And he has featured on Dynamite too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The Charlotte segment could have been better but I always get goosebumps whenever I see Ric, and it hits you in the feels when he introduced his daughter. Charlotte never wanted to be pro wrestler, he entire career is a tribute to Reid. And I am in agreement with Ric that she is the best womens in-ring performer of all time, in fact I love her work so much that P4P I’d put her right up there with the best names regardless of gender. The intensity in her matches is rarely matched, and her mannerisms do her father so much justice and more. She really does have the gene when she is that good and didn’t intend to get into the business and when you see all the sacrifice Flair has made, all the blood/sweat/tears for us fans in an an extremely unforgiving environment, am happy he has Charlotte. I know Jake is a bit better now, but just look at all the relations which were tarnished in his life, speaking off which, it always makes me smile to see DDP!

I'm more of a Becky fan tbh but I don't disagree with anything you said. Charlotte is the gold-standard of women's wrestling. And its not a stretch to call her the female version of Ric Flair (as weird as that sounds when you say it out loud). And its kinda for the same reasons. Because no one wrestled more great matches than Ric, no one won more Championships than him, few were better promos than him, no one was able to do it that well for that long, and very few checked all the boxes in the same way that Ric did. When you look at women's wrestling who has done it all and continues to stay relevant? Charlotte. Yeah, its only been 8 years but then again, women's wrestling only started being taking seriously by fans fairly recently too.

And eventhough I like Becky more, Becky's promos can be quite annoying at times when she's trying to be a cool, funny babyface and starts pandering to the fans. Charlotte by contrast is a far better promo and doesn't need to do any of that to deliver a great promo.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The Charlotte segment could have been better but I always get goosebumps whenever I see Ric, and it hits you in the feels when he introduced his daughter. Charlotte never wanted to be pro wrestler, he entire career is a tribute to Reid. And I am in agreement with Ric that she is the best womens in-ring performer of all time, in fact I love her work so much that P4P I’d put her right up there with the best names regardless of gender. The intensity in her matches is rarely matched, and her mannerisms do her father so much justice and more. She really does have the gene when she is that good and didn’t intend to get into the business and when you see all the sacrifice Flair has made, all the blood/sweat/tears for us fans in an an extremely unforgiving environment, am happy he has Charlotte. I know Jake is a bit better now, but just look at all the relations which were tarnished in his life, speaking off which, it always makes me smile to see DDP!

Speaking of slick Ric, I watched the 1992 Royal Rumble last night, which I had never seen before. Watched it because Jim and Brian were doing a Watch-Along of it on Jim's podcast. And man, I have to say that it was probably one of the best Rumbles I ever saw. It's kinda remarkable to see how much this match has changed over the years. Eventhough this was from the era of WWE when cartoon characters and wrestlers who had other day jobs (garbage man, dentist, a burglar) were part of the roster, the amount of great wrestlers and big names in this match was just unseemly. Also no stupid dives or guys laying on the side of the ring and just doing nothing for minutes on end. The match made sense, the guys that came in, came in for a reason and the ring was rarely ever crowded with too many guys doing things of little to no consequence.

If you take out Hogan being Hogan, this was pretty much the perfect Rumble.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Am really disconnected and burned out from WWE 2K gameplay, it may be polished etc but since Here Comes The Pain, I don’t feel a lot has changed? there is no addiction imo or repeat value, which is why I still go back to the classics. I hope the AEW game is great, was so excited for it and if it is successful, it will force 2K to pick their standards up although it is difficult in a short window, they had a lot of time to develop 2k 22 though and while it’s good, am not sure the reception is on the ATG level

Obviously nothing compares to those early games. Here Comes the Pain, No Mercy, SvR 2007 will always been in a league of their own for me. But at the same time I am someone who wants to play the newer games too so it is what it is. Which is why like you, I am really hoping for the AEW game to be good. Because eventhough there are certain aspects about this game that I do like, I don't generally like 2K Games and their approach to making these games. There's very little innovation and the games generally tend to be rehashes. Like I said, 2K18 and 2K22 are the exceptions, but the rest are pure garbage and not worth playing at all. They don't even compare to what Yukes and THQ were doing back in the day.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I haven’t watched any wrestling show for more than 30-40 min at best outside the YT highlights but the first few hours of this I was hooked. This was the best episode off TV I have seen in a long time, I don’t think RAW should be 3 hours but if it is, this should be the template.

The opening hour was one of the finest pieces of storytelling in modern RAW history, Oscar season has come in time because each member of the bloodline deserves a friggin Academy Award, this is the bread and butter of wrestling, if there’s a casual out there, first thing I’d tell them to go watch is the trial of Sami Zayn, my god what a thrilling performance from him LOL it was so masterful and it weaved into title defence superbly, am not sure but the free bird rule in theory may have applied here and the crowd went bezerk after he helped them retained the titles which by the way wasn’t a foregone conclusion and in doing so progressed the narrative beautifully! I am excited for the RR and how things play out with this angle!

Don’t feel so bad for L.A Knight at all, he shared the ring with a living legend and got to shine on the mic, it was one hell of a promo from a guy who deserves more cred then he gets, I’ve been so impressed with him in his first major feud on TV, it’s never easy making the transition to the big leagues but he has felt so at home and the guy is so charismatic. I marked the hell out when Taker came on the bike, this is one persona among his many incarnations which I feel will age nicely as he gets older! but man, watching that I just felt so much gratitude, we got to live through his prime years and what a run it was and seeing Bray get the rub, was so awesome, an amazing moment!

I agree with you on the main event but I was surprised by the return of Lesnar and as a segment it was great! Yes I hope we do get Gunther/Lesnar sooner rather than later but there have been some whispers that Lesnar has been proposed to Austin, even if that were true I hope we still get the Gunther match and in my view, a younger star should be used for an Austin match, am not confident he will accept Lesnar but if he does, then I am still hopeful it could work because Austin has a high ring IQ and amazing awareness between the ropes.

I am sick of DX reunions and more than that, I hate seeing Shawn in there when he is a bigger star then all of them combined, plus I much rather sing to his theme song which we don’t hear often anymore, Shawn could be utilised so much better with other members of the roster but is supremely wasted here. Hunter is the King off thinly veiled attacks so wouldn’t shock me, I was happy to see Angle and I feel he made the segment work

Actually I am pumped up for Brock vs Lashley 3 at Mania. Thought it was a pretty predictable for him to interfere there considering the post match beatdown he suffered after his match with Bobbles plus it was a legends night.
We haven't yet been given a proper Lesnar Lashley match. The first one was marred by Roman interference and Vince had specifically said that Lashley needs to take very less punishment compared to Brock to try and elevate him to his level of terror. Then the second one even though Lesnar won, he was made to look extremely weak. Now expecting Hurt Business to help Lashley eliminate Lesnar in the Rumble leading to a match at Mania. And I am all for big man 20 min match where Lesnar will probably go full throttle.

Plus I think Walter needs a little more time with NA audience to get at that level where he is legit considered a challenger for Brock.

I do agree with The Bloodline segment, it should get an Emmy seriously. Top notch acting by Sami, Roman and Jay.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I'm more of a Becky fan tbh but I don't disagree with anything you said. Charlotte is the gold-standard of women's wrestling. And its not a stretch to call her the female version of Ric Flair (as weird as that sounds when you say it out loud). And its kinda for the same reasons. Because no one wrestled more great matches than Ric, no one won more Championships than him, few were better promos than him, no one was able to do it that well for that long, and very few checked all the boxes in the same way that Ric did. When you look at women's wrestling who has done it all and continues to stay relevant? Charlotte. Yeah, its only been 8 years but then again, women's wrestling only started being taking seriously by fans fairly recently too.

And eventhough I like Becky more, Becky's promos can be quite annoying at times when she's trying to be a cool, funny babyface and starts pandering to the fans. Charlotte by contrast is a far better promo and doesn't need to do any of that to deliver a great promo.

I used to like Charlotte till maybe around 2018. But god have they totally ruined her beyond repair. Her promos are not interesting to watch and every angle she's in, it's about the world title. Plus her character and the no. of times she's been made to go over without reason and even winning the Rumble has totally made Charlotte skippable for me. The only time I liked her in last year or so was when she had to go offscript and just work a match on the go. Apart from that, it's all passable for me.

From the 4 horsewomen. Charlotte used to be the most allround person. But it has changed now IMO.

Becky - Best on the mic and engaging the crowd. Good enough in the ring to work great matches. But presence and look is lacking

Charlotte - Good in every aspect except on mic which is mainly due to the direction of her character and presentation.

Sasha - Possibly the best in ring worker out of them. Great presence and look. Mic skills good. But god I find her bloated ego and how she sees herself annoying. In addition to that, she has some of the most toxic fans a bit like Elites'.

Bayley - Probably the best on the mic and switching characters while remaining relevant. Not as good in the ring as the other three but still very good. Great presence and crowd engagement as well. Even Stone Cold praised her heel work duringthe thunderdome era.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Obviously nothing compares to those early games. Here Comes the Pain, No Mercy, SvR 2007 will always been in a league of their own for me. But at the same time I am someone who wants to play the newer games too so it is what it is. Which is why like you, I am really hoping for the AEW game to be good. Because eventhough there are certain aspects about this game that I do like, I don't generally like 2K Games and their approach to making these games. There's very little innovation and the games generally tend to be rehashes. Like I said, 2K18 and 2K22 are the exceptions, but the rest are pure garbage and not worth playing at all. They don't even compare to what Yukes and THQ were doing back in the day.

I bought wwe 2k22 a few months ago as well. Only got to play for 10 mins. But the controls have felt a bit of hybrid of svr2006 and wwe svr 2k10 and 2k11 which is actually a good thing.

Will play properly from Feb hopefully.

 

[Hitman]

Bret Hart feared he would STRANGLE Shawn Michaels after becoming consumed with ‘real' hatred

WRESTLING icon Bret "The Hitman" Hart was so consumed with hate that he feared strangling rival Shawn Michaels to death for several years.

Raging Bret confessed that he would never have been able to control his actions and loathing if he met Shawn following the infamous Montreal Screw Job, which saw WWE boss Vince McMahon remove him as champ without a submission.

Canadian Bret, 64, revealed his fury exploded backstage after the infamous 1997 match knocking out Vince leaving him with a broken right hand.

Bret failed to recover from feeling "huge betrayal" after helping the then-named WWF keep ratings during their famous TV war with rivals WCW.

And Bret and Shaw admitted their screen tension was real as both ego-filled men pushed to prove they were the best in the business during the 1990s.

Bret revealed: "We started out pretending to be real and then it got real."

Their feud hit fever pitch when Vince handed Bret’s WWE Championship title to Shawn even though he didn’t lose the Montreal match.

Vince insists he had no option because Bret was leaving for a bigger contract with rivals WCW and Shawn, in on the plan, denied everything.

Bret, speaking on new A&E documentary WWE Rivals, feared his anger and disdain at his treatment almost became criminal.

He said: "It really bothered me even when I was in WCW. I was obsessed with it.

"I remember being in a WCW show, where we were both in the same town and I went to my room and stayed in my room, so that I would not bump into him.

"I feared if I bumped into Shawn, like he'd walked into the same elevator as me, I'm not exaggerating. I tell you there is a possibility I would have killed him with my bare hands."

Bret’s temper had not cooled since he lost the title at the Survivor Series pay-per-view at the Molson Centre on November 9, 1997.

Link: https://www.the-sun.com/sport/5663812/wwe-bret-hart-strangle-shawn-michaels-hatred/

) ) ) )

 

[shaz619]

Link: https://www.the-sun.com/sport/5663812/wwe-bret-hart-strangle-shawn-michaels-hatred/

) ) ) )

) oldboy needs to be more careful these days.

I think Bret felt this way until he discovered Triple H’s role in the scheme

 

[shaz619]

So Jay Briscoe made some homophobic comments on Twitter like 10 years ago. Comments that he not only apologized for later, but also made amends for by donating to LGBTQ charities. For WWE and Warner Brothers Discovery that was not enough. WWE didn't hire him and his brother (who was faultless in all of this) because of that.

An unnamed executive at WBD apparently made sure that The Briscoes were not featured in any capacity on their networks because of these same comments. All while an ex-con deathmatch wrestler who once robbed a bank without even wearing a mask (Nick Gage), was allowed to main-event Dynamite.

Not to mention, all the other people with significantly unsavory pasts that feature on their networks. Infact if we are looking at past indiscretions, let's not forget Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist. And he has featured on Dynamite too.

On the Tyson one it’s not so straightforward given the fallacy of a trial with a biased jury and the “victim” who had previously been convicted of falsely claiming rape, but I get your point on the whole, AEW still maintains links with Omega who is connected to a bloke who was convicted as a sex offender and the less said about Gage the better, none of those guys were looked at with any depth. I was confused with Warner’s position given their relation with JK despite her comments on the LGBT community over the years, this is an attack on the wrestling industry pure and simple. But am glad he was booked in the end despite the pressure

 

[shaz619]

Actually I am pumped up for Brock vs Lashley 3 at Mania. Thought it was a pretty predictable for him to interfere there considering the post match beatdown he suffered after his match with Bobbles plus it was a legends night.
We haven't yet been given a proper Lesnar Lashley match. The first one was marred by Roman interference and Vince had specifically said that Lashley needs to take very less punishment compared to Brock to try and elevate him to his level of terror. Then the second one even though Lesnar won, he was made to look extremely weak. Now expecting Hurt Business to help Lashley eliminate Lesnar in the Rumble leading to a match at Mania. And I am all for big man 20 min match where Lesnar will probably go full throttle.

Plus I think Walter needs a little more time with NA audience to get at that level where he is legit considered a challenger for Brock.

I do agree with The Bloodline segment, it should get an Emmy seriously. Top notch acting by Sami, Roman and Jay.

I think Lashley/Lesnar is still a great match up but I’d have liked Gunther to face one of those names, preferably Lesnar. Gunther/Lesnar could have been a great RR match, they have Lesnar for limited dates so maybe are going with Lashley as he is a bigger name for a big event.

I suppose there is no harm in building up Gunther further.

Yes that segment was insane!!

 

[shaz619]

I think that regardless of what the plans are at mania, I’ve not read reports or anything on certain wrestlers availability etc but that Sami Zayn should win the RR, I think it would enable the most thrilling narrative possible for mania.

If they were thinking of Cody being in a title match, they can still achieve that because there are two nights.

The momentum is with Sami right now and am afraid a tag title match vs the USOS with KO as his partner is not a strong enough pay off.

 

[Hitman]

) oldboy needs to be more careful these days.

I think Bret felt this way until he discovered Triple H’s role in the scheme

I don't think even Vince hated Randy Savage so much

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I think that regardless of what the plans are at mania, I’ve not read reports or anything on certain wrestlers availability etc but that Sami Zayn should win the RR, I think it would enable the most thrilling narrative possible for mania.

If they were thinking of Cody being in a title match, they can still achieve that because there are two nights.

The momentum is with Sami right now and am afraid a tag title match vs the USOS with KO as his partner is not a strong enough pay off.

Sami vs Roman seems to be a logical match at Mania now considering how over he is. Seems like they've put the wheels in motion like the Kofi Mania thing again by chance. KO had to give way to Kofi that year and seems like Cody will have to do that this year unless The big Dwayne decides to show up at the last minute.

They might well be going for Sheamus/Drew winning the tag titles probs. But they really need to seperate both tag team titles and WWE and Universal Title. . Makes no sense for a part timer to hold the top two belts and be seldom showing up. What made Lesnar's reign bearable was there were AJ, Bryan, Kofi, (and Jinder sadly) consistently having feuds and matches on SD.

 

[The_KING]

Link: https://www.the-sun.com/sport/5663812/wwe-bret-hart-strangle-shawn-michaels-hatred/

) ) ) )

As much as I rate Bret as a wrestler, the guy is one bitter individual.

 

[The_KING]

I don't really watch that much wrestling anymore, but I watched a bit of Raw XXX.

It was a great trip down memory lane, but the best moment was seeing Undertaker return as the American Badass. I can't believe that in 2023, Undertaker would come out to the ring on his bike to Kid's Rock ABA song. It was like 2000 all over again.

 

[Hitman]

As much as I rate Bret as a wrestler, the guy is one bitter individual.

Probably the most bitter individual in wrestling. The thing I like about him is that he's such an honest person who has never lied to his fans. But the man is a mark for himself, and it really annoys me.

 

[sweep_shot]

I don't really watch that much wrestling anymore, but I watched a bit of Raw XXX.

It was a great trip down memory lane, but the best moment was seeing Undertaker return as the American Badass. I can't believe that in 2023, Undertaker would come out to the ring on his bike to Kid's Rock ABA song. It was like 2000 all over again.

I think Wrestling died in 2012-ish.

After Chris Benoit died, it slowly started to decline as WWE went PG. It was watchable for a few more years but the decline was evident.

Even when The Rock returned in 2013, it felt vanilla. Rock can't be himself due to modern day radical liberal woke crowd.

 

[The_KING]

Probably the most bitter individual in wrestling. The thing I like about him is that he's such an honest person who has never lied to his fans. But the man is a mark for himself, and it really annoys me.

I get it that guy has had some tragedies in his life, but he needs to let go of the past.

 

[Hitman]

I get it that guy has had some tragedies in his life, but he needs to let go of the past.

What tragedies? His only tragedy in life is the untimely death of his brothers Owen and Dean. Yes, he did suffer a stroke, but he recovered from it relatively quick. The guy believes the Montreal Screwjob is his biggest tragedy, which is a joke. People have gone through far more ordeals. Kamala lost both his legs before his death, Dynamite Kid became wheelchair bound in his late 30’s, and remained so till his death. You never saw them crying like a baby. And yet this guy having earned millions from wrestling believes he is the unluckiest man on earth.

 

[The_KING]

I think Wrestling died in 2012-ish.

After Chris Benoit died, it slowly started to decline as WWE went PG. It was watchable for a few more years but the decline was evident.

Even when The Rock returned in 2013, it felt vanilla. Rock can't be himself due to modern day radical liberal woke crowd.

Once some of my childhood heroes such as Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Triple H all retired or became part timers around 2010-11, I started to lose interest in wrestling.

I started watching wrestling in the late 90s and from 03-09, I watched every single WWE show, and every single TNA show. But I lost interest at the start of the 2010s decade.

Going PG was the worst decision WWE made, but in many ways, it was a reflection of the soft modern day society. Can you imagine a character like Eugene in today’s WWE? Can you imagine Rock calling Stephanie a slut in 2023? We can’t even have men hit women anymore. Someone like Stone Cold or The Rock would have never become the mega stars that they did, if they started their careers in the PG era.

 

[The_KING]

What tragedies? His only tragedy in life is the untimely death of his brothers Owen and Dean. Yes, he did suffer a stroke, but he recovered from it relatively quick. The guy believes the Montreal Screwjob is his biggest tragedy, which is a joke. People have gone through far more ordeals. Kamala lost both his legs before his death, Dynamite Kid became wheelchair bound in his late 30’s, and remained so till his death. You never saw them crying like a baby. And yet this guy having earned millions from wrestling believes he is the unluckiest man on earth.

I agree. But I suppose getting kicked in the head by Goldberg which ended his career was a tragedy.

I find it really annoying that he takes shot at Goldberg at every opportunity. Goldberg is a limited wrestler but the dude is a legit nice guy. He didn’t mean to injure Bret.

What I find funny is Bret saying that Goldberg shouldn’t be in the WWE hall of fame because he injured him. Yet, he wants his brother to be in the hall of fame. He forgets that Owen dropped Austin on his neck, which played a major role in Austin’s early retirement.

Speaking of Austin, you don’t see him take shots at Owen for breaking his neck and ending his career. But Bret still holds a grudge in 2023 against Goldberg. What a bitter guy.

 

[The_KING]

SvR 2006, I always played this on PSP, but on PS2 with the enhanced graphics and JR on commentary, it feels a different game!

Here Comes The Pain though, honestly the gameplay is just outstanding and the greatest in the PS2 era of released

Here Comes The Pain is still not topped in my opinion, nearly 20 years later. Everything was great. The roster, the story mode, the gameplay.

SVR 2006 was a banger too.

 

[Hitman]

I agree. But I suppose getting kicked in the head by Goldberg which ended his career was a tragedy.

I find it really annoying that he takes shot at Goldberg at every opportunity. Goldberg is a limited wrestler but the dude is a legit nice guy. He didn’t mean to injure Bret.

What I find funny is Bret saying that Goldberg shouldn’t be in the WWE hall of fame because he injured him. Yet, he wants his brother to be in the hall of fame. He forgets that Owen dropped Austin on his neck, which played a major role in Austin’s early retirement.

Speaking of Austin, you don’t see him take shots at Owen for breaking his neck and ending his career. But Bret still holds a grudge in 2023 against Goldberg. What a bitter guy.

It’s strange. For a number of years Bret maintained that he holds no resentment towards Goldberg, and that his injury was an accident. Don’t know what happened suddenly, he changed his stance and turned against Goldberg.

 

[shaz619]

It’s strange. For a number of years Bret maintained that he holds no resentment towards Goldberg, and that his injury was an accident. Don’t know what happened suddenly, he changed his stance and turned against Goldberg.

Berg cost him his career and millions, it must hurt to see him have his run again so late and get that sweet saudi moolah.

Bret is a mark for himself and I WISH wrestlers today took the business as seriously as he did, the product would be better.

 

[shaz619]

Here Comes The Pain is still not topped in my opinion, nearly 20 years later. Everything was great. The roster, the story mode, the gameplay.

SVR 2006 was a banger too.

Yes this century that may be the best ever. Wish we get a remastered version one day or remastered versions of N64 games, 007 GoldenEye is going to be released remastered after years of licensing concerns

 

[shaz619]

Sami vs Roman seems to be a logical match at Mania now considering how over he is. Seems like they've put the wheels in motion like the Kofi Mania thing again by chance. KO had to give way to Kofi that year and seems like Cody will have to do that this year unless The big Dwayne decides to show up at the last minute.

They might well be going for Sheamus/Drew winning the tag titles probs. But they really need to seperate both tag team titles and WWE and Universal Title. . Makes no sense for a part timer to hold the top two belts and be seldom showing up. What made Lesnar's reign bearable was there were AJ, Bryan, Kofi, (and Jinder sadly) consistently having feuds and matches on SD.

Am not sure it was KO who had to give way for Kofi, it was reported widely that Mustafa Ali was being considered for the title match until he got injured from the top of my head

 

[shaz619]

I agree. But I suppose getting kicked in the head by Goldberg which ended his career was a tragedy.

I find it really annoying that he takes shot at Goldberg at every opportunity. Goldberg is a limited wrestler but the dude is a legit nice guy. He didn’t mean to injure Bret.

What I find funny is Bret saying that Goldberg shouldn’t be in the WWE hall of fame because he injured him. Yet, he wants his brother to be in the hall of fame. He forgets that Owen dropped Austin on his neck, which played a major role in Austin’s early retirement.

Speaking of Austin, you don’t see him take shots at Owen for breaking his neck and ending his career. But Bret still holds a grudge in 2023 against Goldberg. What a bitter guy.

Owen is gone now and with him any beef. Every now and then Austin does talk a bit about it on his podcast, his main gripe though was that Owen didn’t call him or check on him or anything like that, there was no apology. But to be fair to Austin he is not one to always bang on about it and while he did retire early, he could afford to do it and didn’t need to come back, it probably was a blessing in a way because it may have been harder to give up the spotlight later, just look at Taker and The Last Ride series really evokes his issues.

Goldberg has always been very apologetic, ultimately the guys who bought him in untrained deserve some criticism to, the power-plant wasn’t really a training ground.

 

[shaz619]

I don't think even Vince hated Randy Savage so much

Ok here’s a theory which hasn’t been mentioned before, what if Vince pimped out Steph ) with him, anything is possible

 

[shaz619]

Once some of my childhood heroes such as Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Triple H all retired or became part timers around 2010-11, I started to lose interest in wrestling.

I started watching wrestling in the late 90s and from 03-09, I watched every single WWE show, and every single TNA show. But I lost interest at the start of the 2010s decade.

Going PG was the worst decision WWE made, but in many ways, it was a reflection of the soft modern day society. Can you imagine a character like Eugene in today’s WWE? Can you imagine Rock calling Stephanie a slut in 2023? We can’t even have men hit women anymore. Someone like Stone Cold or The Rock would have never become the mega stars that they did, if they started their careers in the PG era.

The PG era was necessary at the time due to what Benoit did but I’d say the product adapted between 2012-2013 they began to transition to the reality era and bought a little more edge back. We were really lucky in those days, so many first ballot HOF’ers on the roster at the same time! plus more effort was put into carving out strong characters and the there was less policing of creativity. The Rock/Austin are so charismatic that imo they would have done well in any era.

 

[shaz619]

I think Wrestling died in 2012-ish.

After Chris Benoit died, it slowly started to decline as WWE went PG. It was watchable for a few more years but the decline was evident.

Even when The Rock returned in 2013, it felt vanilla. Rock can't be himself due to modern day radical liberal woke crowd.

The Rock in his first feud with Cena was just the same as early 2000’s Rock, very entertaining. But in his second feud with Cena and Punk, he began to approach segments like he was on a Hollywood set and began to overly script everything to a tee which negated some of his natural ability on the mic, Cena famously pointed out lines on his forearm in a shoot promo