The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[RedwoodOriginal]

Think the problem with Sami has been the way he has been diluted to the degree where the audience sees nothing more than a mid carder sadly. He's been on the main roster since 2015 and for 7 years he has never been given anything more than mid card push. On top of that he was given a pathetic character with awful storylines once he turned heel (Lashley's sisters, not taking a single bump or hitting the opponent during his IC title reign vs Strowman and Bryan in 2020). If a wrestler is kept so down for so long, it becomes extremely different to see him at the top. To Sami's credit, he never complained about it, managed to do the best he could with his character and got over with his annoying heel gimmick as well. But the damage he's been dealt with has been too much. But I do hope he gets the top run that he deserves. Bryan only had to fiddle in the mid card for 3-4 years compared to Sami's 7. Even then he was given the wwe title once or twice (even though they had him lose in that terrible fashion to Sheamus) but bryan didn't get that bad treatment that Sami has got. So for him to finally go to the top was relatively easier. But then again Bryan is no ordinary wrestler either like you said.

Drew is also an example, the way he was presented in 3MB, would he have been able to get over and be the force that he has been since his 2018 return? I don't think so. He was a comedy character then and was turned into a joke. Only once he had rebuilt himself on the indies and had totally changed his look, his wrestling style and on mic, was he finally dubbed as the prodigal son upon his return.

Yes it is actually remarkable how many bad gimmicks and storylines he has been saddled when you think about how accomplished he is not just in the ring but also on the mic. And yet he has rarely been utilized as anything more than an underneath guy since he ended his first main-roster feud with Owens in 2016 all the way upto when he just decided to get himself over with that Conspiracy Theorist gimmick.

IIRC there was even a time in between when they made him Nakamura's manager. Which I think would have to be the most egregious waste of his talents and abilities.

Drew is a good example of how you can redeem yourself. But at the same time a different one. Because Drew always had that look and was seen as a future main-eventer all the way back when he first came on to the main-roster in 2009. And when he came back his physique and look was just terrific...pretty much in-line with what they expect from a main-event level guy.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What do you guys think the WrestleMania card will look like? For me things are heading in this direction:


Roman Reigns v Cody Rhodes - Undisputed Championship
Gunther v Drew McIntyre v Sheamus - Intercontinental Championship
Seth Rollins v Logan Paul
John Cena v Austin Theory - United States Championship
Rhea Ripley v Charlotte Flair - SmackDown Women's Championship
Kevin Owens & Sami Zayn v The Usos - Undisputed Tag Team Championship
Edge v Finn Balor (Hell in A Cell)
Brock Lesnar v Bobby Lashley in a gimmick match
Bray Wyatt v ???
Rey Mysterio v Dominik Mysterio
Bianca Belair v Asuka - Raw Women's Championship
Becky Lynch, Trish Stratus & Lita v Damage CTRL
Midcarder Battle Royale


Alot of predictions and educated guesses obviously.

 

[shaz619]

I personally see Bryan as kind of an exception to the rule. For one thing he was massively over and beloved in a way that no one wrestler has been in the current era of wrestling. Then he was/is a once-in-a-generation in-ring talent and an excellent promo. On top of that, Vince and Bryan managed to build an great relationship together during Bryan's second run and Bryan still credits Vince for having taught him alot about the business...also considers him to be something of a father figure.

Re: Sami, the funny thing is that he is actually pretty tall too. The guy has to be 6 ft. The only thing he does not have is a body-builder physique. And honestly he doesn't need one! HHH has blabbered incessantly in numerous interviews that the most important thing for him is a wrestler's ability to tell a story in the ring and illicit a reaction from the audience, not the moves that they can perform. Seems it was all lip-service. He was okay booking like that on NXT but WWE is not the same I guess.

One thing which is hugely overlooked is, besides the controversy around booking in the 2013-2014 period, Bryan actually became World Champion prior to that, he might have actually become a triple crown champion between 2011-2012. Bryan was one of the most handicapped guys to ever work for Vince, you couldn’t get more vanilla then Bryan despite his reputation on the independent circuit which Vince didn’t care for. I think though that what Vince greatly admired about Bryan was the size of his balls, his work ethic and tremendous attitude, whatever position he was put in, he got over! Jericho once said if you can get over as a top guy in x, you have the potential to do it in y despite the road blocks; Bryan was the best example of that and I’d put Punk there to. Bryan’s rise may have seemed swift but he had to pay his dues early, remember when they wanted Batista to squash him in 2010? he refused, he did have respect with his peers but it had to be earned, Bryan was willing to do some of the most low ball crap in NXT and they turned an angle out, we need to give Mizz a lot of credit for playing his part and Jericho to. Bryan developed a great relationship with Vince because he was willing to go outside his comfort zone and show he had more depth, Vince helped bring out more personality. His ring work would vastly improve given how he’d adapt to a variety of matches and situations, he even began to improve his physique and looked a lot meatier as the years went on with the added bulk, but it was his character work which helped him. In 2013 looking back, you can somewhat forgive Vince for not being sure on pulling the trigger on Bryan as THE guy but he came around to it due to the fan response, the dude got mad over, he had the same face appeal as Rey and Cena if not more during that peak but unfortunately he got injured.

We often look at the wrestlers skill set which defines their greatness but honestly, what also separated ATG’s from the rest is their mindset and Bryan belong on mount Rushmore, he didn’t just work like a champion he thought like one to and his comeback should reinforce that idea imo to return and perform at that level again was special, you can only achieve that with a unique champions mentality, Bryan maybe among a few where he has the same mentality and drive off an Olympian

 

[shaz619]

What do you guys think the WrestleMania card will look like? For me things are heading in this direction:


Roman Reigns v Cody Rhodes - Undisputed Championship
Gunther v Drew McIntyre v Sheamus - Intercontinental Championship
Seth Rollins v Logan Paul
John Cena v Austin Theory - United States Championship
Rhea Ripley v Charlotte Flair - SmackDown Women's Championship
Kevin Owens & Sami Zayn v The Usos - Undisputed Tag Team Championship
Edge v Finn Balor (Hell in A Cell)
Brock Lesnar v Bobby Lashley in a gimmick match
Bray Wyatt v ???
Rey Mysterio v Dominik Mysterio
Bianca Belair v Asuka - Raw Women's Championship
Becky Lynch, Trish Stratus & Lita v Damage CTRL
Midcarder Battle Royale


Alot of predictions and educated guesses obviously.

I would concur that’s the sort of card which is most likely and it’s pretty strong, but does it feel like it’s missing that Ooomph?

None of these matches are more exciting then Bryan v MJF, I think it’s smart it is happening next month. I’d have said Reigns v Sami would have been about par if not more had it been booked for mania but that’s not the case.

 

[shaz619]

Imagine Bryan vs MJF was booked as a Mania Program, mah gawd would be epic in a stadium

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

One thing which is hugely overlooked is, besides the controversy around booking in the 2013-2014 period, Bryan actually became World Champion prior to that, he might have actually become a triple crown champion between 2011-2012. Bryan was one of the most handicapped guys to ever work for Vince, you couldn’t get more vanilla then Bryan despite his reputation on the independent circuit which Vince didn’t care for. I think though that what Vince greatly admired about Bryan was the size of his balls, his work ethic and tremendous attitude, whatever position he was put in, he got over! Jericho once said if you can get over as a top guy in x, you have the potential to do it in y despite the road blocks; Bryan was the best example of that and I’d put Punk there to. Bryan’s rise may have seemed swift but he had to pay his dues early, remember when they wanted Batista to squash him in 2010? he refused, he did have respect with his peers but it had to be earned, Bryan was willing to do some of the most low ball crap in NXT and they turned an angle out, we need to give Mizz a lot of credit for playing his part and Jericho to. Bryan developed a great relationship with Vince because he was willing to go outside his comfort zone and show he had more depth, Vince helped bring out more personality. His ring work would vastly improve given how he’d adapt to a variety of matches and situations, he even began to improve his physique and looked a lot meatier as the years went on with the added bulk, but it was his character work which helped him. In 2013 looking back, you can somewhat forgive Vince for not being sure on pulling the trigger on Bryan as THE guy but he came around to it due to the fan response, the dude got mad over, he had the same face appeal as Rey and Cena if not more during that peak but unfortunately he got injured.

We often look at the wrestlers skill set which defines their greatness but honestly, what also separated ATG’s from the rest is their mindset and Bryan belong on mount Rushmore, he didn’t just work like a champion he thought like one to and his comeback should reinforce that idea imo to return and perform at that level again was special, you can only achieve that with a unique champions mentality, Bryan maybe among a few where he has the same mentality and drive off an Olympian

Great post. Hard to disagree with anything you've said here. Bryan is definitely on the Mount Rushmore of ATGs for me and that 2014 that he had has to rank as one of the best Mania stories ever told.

Personally, I just feel lucky that I get to watch him wrestle so regularly. And as good as he was in WWE, I feel he had reached his peak there creatively. Besides winning the Rumble he had done everything and worked with just about everyone there was to work with. But getting to see him work with guys like Mox, MJF, Minoru Suzuki, Omega, Daniel Garcia, Sammy Guevara, Timothy Thatcher...and so many others he hasn't even gotten in the ring with yet...that's what I wanna see.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I would concur that’s the sort of card which is most likely and it’s pretty strong, but does it feel like it’s missing that Ooomph?

None of these matches are more exciting then Bryan v MJF, I think it’s smart it is happening next month. I’d have said Reigns v Sami would have been about par if not more had it been booked for mania but that’s not the case.

Yeah I agree. I think the matches will really have to deliver in the ring because on paper this show is definitely lacking that oomph factor. And yeah, I don't think I would be looking forward to any of these matches more than MJF v Bryan going 60 mins.

I don't want to write the show off. I think there is still potential to make Cody v Roman great. If the Cody-Heyman exchange on RAW is anything to go by.

Looking at the card, I think Rollins and Logan Paul could be a show-stealer. I think they will try to have a really cool, entertaining, high work-rate match. Usos v Zayn/Owens WILL steal the show. Gunther/Sheamus/McIntyre could be great if they get the time and obviously Reigns v Cody will be given that main event level positioning.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Imagine Bryan vs MJF was booked as a Mania Program, mah gawd would be epic in a stadium

I really hope AEW do a big stadium show when they go to the UK. Not only will they draw the crowd but they could put on some fantastic matches in front of huge crowds.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

What do you guys think the WrestleMania card will look like? For me things are heading in this direction:


Roman Reigns v Cody Rhodes - Undisputed Championship
Gunther v Drew McIntyre v Sheamus - Intercontinental Championship
Seth Rollins v Logan Paul
John Cena v Austin Theory - United States Championship
Rhea Ripley v Charlotte Flair - SmackDown Women's Championship
Kevin Owens & Sami Zayn v The Usos - Undisputed Tag Team Championship
Edge v Finn Balor (Hell in A Cell)
Brock Lesnar v Bobby Lashley in a gimmick match
Bray Wyatt v ???
Rey Mysterio v Dominik Mysterio
Bianca Belair v Asuka - Raw Women's Championship
Becky Lynch, Trish Stratus & Lita v Damage CTRL
Midcarder Battle Royale


Alot of predictions and educated guesses obviously.

Build up wise only expecting Cody-Roman and KO/Sami-Usos to be good.

Match quality wise Sheamus/Walter/Drew, Seth/Paul, Roman/Cody, Lesnar/Lashley, Balor/Edge all have the quality to be show stealers. Even though Balor/Edge feud stinks and has gone 8 months longer than it should have, the two have great chemistry and without interferences or some silly stipulation, they can have a great wrestling match.

Excited for Seth/Paul. Logan has proved that he takes wrestling seriously and I would consider him to be a professional now considering the effort he has put in.

Drew/Walter/Sheamus - Multi men matches always have more potential to be entertaining if booked right and with these three, I expect no less than magic.

Lesnar/Lashley still has the most mainstream/casual audience appeal because of the characters and their backgrounds in MMA. And I have no doubt they can create magic if booked right. Expecting a decisive Lesnar win here.

Would like Bray to squash Kross.

I miss the multi men/tag teams matches at Mania. Usos vs Ko/Sami has the storyline and all but it sucks that still most of the talent isn't going to be involved in the show. For example, a four team ladder match could have been great as well. Usos vs Sami/KO vs Rey/Ricochet vs Street Profits/Imperium etc

Also a Cena/La Knight feud would have been gold promo wise.

Will be weird to see no Randy or even AJ at this Mania.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Great post. Hard to disagree with anything you've said here. Bryan is definitely on the Mount Rushmore of ATGs for me and that 2014 that he had has to rank as one of the best Mania stories ever told.

Personally, I just feel lucky that I get to watch him wrestle so regularly. And as good as he was in WWE, I feel he had reached his peak there creatively. Besides winning the Rumble he had done everything and worked with just about everyone there was to work with. But getting to see him work with guys like Mox, MJF, Minoru Suzuki, Omega, Daniel Garcia, Sammy Guevara, Timothy Thatcher...and so many others he hasn't even gotten in the ring with yet...that's what I wanna see.

I want to see a Bryan/Gargano match as well.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Build up wise only expecting Cody-Roman and KO/Sami-Usos to be good.

Match quality wise Sheamus/Walter/Drew, Seth/Paul, Roman/Cody, Lesnar/Lashley, Balor/Edge all have the quality to be show stealers. Even though Balor/Edge feud stinks and has gone 8 months longer than it should have, the two have great chemistry and without interferences or some silly stipulation, they can have a great wrestling match.

Excited for Seth/Paul. Logan has proved that he takes wrestling seriously and I would consider him to be a professional now considering the effort he has put in.

Drew/Walter/Sheamus - Multi men matches always have more potential to be entertaining if booked right and with these three, I expect no less than magic.

Lesnar/Lashley still has the most mainstream/casual audience appeal because of the characters and their backgrounds in MMA. And I have no doubt they can create magic if booked right. Expecting a decisive Lesnar win here.

Would like Bray to squash Kross.

I miss the multi men/tag teams matches at Mania. Usos vs Ko/Sami has the storyline and all but it sucks that still most of the talent isn't going to be involved in the show. For example, a four team ladder match could have been great as well. Usos vs Sami/KO vs Rey/Ricochet vs Street Profits/Imperium etc

Also a Cena/La Knight feud would have been gold promo wise.

Will be weird to see no Randy or even AJ at this Mania.

Yeah Bray v Kross is a good shout. Because I doubt any of the established guys want to work with Bray. They can even play on the spooky aspects of both characters.

I agree with the sentiment. But I don't think the KO/Zayn v Usos feud needs to be diluted by making it a multi-team match. I'd rather have the MITB match back at Mania. Or at the very least, do a multi-man ladder match for the IC or US title like they've done at WrestleMania 31 and 32.

Cena/Knight would be incredible. But for that to happen LA Knight needs to be booked in a credible way instead of being used as fodder for other babyfaces. He really started getting over towards the end of this Bray feud and you could see that the crowd was starting to get into his schtick and catchphrases. And then it ended with him being buried six feet under.

I'd love to see LA Knight get a run with the IC belt, after Gunther is moved into the main-event. He seems like such a classical Intercontinental Champion. And like Gunther he would bring alot of value to that belt.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I want to see a Bryan/Gargano match as well.

I know you guys are fans of Gargano, but be honest, does he not mean lesser now than he ever has?

 

[shaz619]

I know you guys are fans of Gargano, but be honest, does he not mean lesser now than he ever has?

I agree, who has he actually managed to get over from his NXT era ? maybe damage control but that has a lot to do with Bayley’s charisma as the leader

 

[shaz619]

Yeah I agree. I think the matches will really have to deliver in the ring because on paper this show is definitely lacking that oomph factor. And yeah, I don't think I would be looking forward to any of these matches more than MJF v Bryan going 60 mins.

I don't want to write the show off. I think there is still potential to make Cody v Roman great. If the Cody-Heyman exchange on RAW is anything to go by.

Looking at the card, I think Rollins and Logan Paul could be a show-stealer. I think they will try to have a really cool, entertaining, high work-rate match. Usos v Zayn/Owens WILL steal the show. Gunther/Sheamus/McIntyre could be great if they get the time and obviously Reigns v Cody will be given that main event level positioning.

You know the dumbest thing for me is how blatantly obvious they are being about a showdown between Reigns and Cody, are they working us or do they just think we are that stupid? having Heyman and Cody do their segment at this point just undermines Reigns v Zayn which is on PPV. The segment itself was outstanding and the build up should be very good.

On that card, I would look forward to the triple threat, Reigns/Cody, Cena/Theory and Charlotte/Rhea who had an incredible match at mania behind closed doors, I expect this to be even better. Aside from these not much else, as you say majority of the ring action and how we expect things to transpire is kinda predictable and I can already see smarks marking out for Rollins/Logan as the second coming of Savage/Steamboat after all their spots

 

[shaz619]

I really hope AEW do a big stadium show when they go to the UK. Not only will they draw the crowd but they could put on some fantastic matches in front of huge crowds.

They have a pretty good following here, the stadium would sell out well. I’d book Sting in a high profile singles match to, maybe with Bryan? build it up as one of his last hurrah’s and a story around why is he even hanging around anymore, he been working multi man matches et al but can he actually work 1 v 1 in a classic wrestling match, similar story between Edge/Orton at backlash. Perhaps look at MJF v Omega in a stadium to

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You know the dumbest thing for me is how blatantly obvious they are being about a showdown between Reigns and Cody, are they working us or do they just think we are that stupid? having Heyman and Cody do their segment at this point just undermines Reigns v Zayn which is on PPV. The segment itself was outstanding and the build up should be very good.

On that card, I would look forward to the triple threat, Reigns/Cody, Cena/Theory and Charlotte/Rhea who had an incredible match at mania behind closed doors, I expect this to be even better. Aside from these not much else, as you say majority of the ring action and how we expect things to transpire is kinda predictable and I can already see smarks marking out for Rollins/Logan as the second coming of Savage/Steamboat after all their spots

Bro that wasn't even the worst thing. I was most appalled by the fact that they showed a WrestleMania graphic of Cody v Roman, right after that or later on the show. And as good as the Heyman-Cody promo was, I hated the line about Cody telling Heyman that he was coming to take both of Roman's belts at Mania. Especially when he had just said "may the best man win" when he came out to the ring.

Stuff like this that just spits in the face of logic really angers me about wrestling. And this is something you unfortunately see too much of wrestling in general.

Hahahh yeah that will likely be an unfortunate by-product of Rollins/Logan Paul. Because you just know that they are going to go out there and try to have a modern style match.

 

[shaz619]

Bro that wasn't even the worst thing. I was most appalled by the fact that they showed a WrestleMania graphic of Cody v Roman, right after that or later on the show. And as good as the Heyman-Cody promo was, I hated the line about Cody telling Heyman that he was coming to take both of Roman's belts at Mania. Especially when he had just said "may the best man win" when he came out to the ring.

Stuff like this that just spits in the face of logic really angers me about wrestling. And this is something you unfortunately see too much of wrestling in general.

Hahahh yeah that will likely be an unfortunate by-product of Rollins/Logan Paul. Because you just know that they are going to go out there and try to have a modern style match.

It’s only justified imo if they have something huge planned at Elimination Chamber? I really doubt Sami lifting the belts, it would really blow me away and it would absolutely crazy.

If the above doesn’t occur, then I just think they are treating us like we are morons.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

They have a pretty good following here, the stadium would sell out well. I’d book Sting in a high profile singles match to, maybe with Bryan? build it up as one of his last hurrah’s and a story around why is he even hanging around anymore, he been working multi man matches et al but can he actually work 1 v 1 in a classic wrestling match, similar story between Edge/Orton at backlash. Perhaps look at MJF v Omega in a stadium to

I dunno if Sting is capable of having a 1 v 1 match. I think there's a reason why they have shielded him so heavily and why he has only done multi man matches since coming to AEW.

MJF v Omega would be great for a stadium Dynamite. Doesn't need to be a lengthy feud and is a good match to do between big feuds for MJF. Similar to what the Starks feud was.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It’s only justified imo if they have something huge planned at Elimination Chamber? I really doubt Sami lifting the belts, it would really blow me away and it would absolutely crazy.

If the above doesn’t occur, then I just think they are treating us like we are morons.

Well that has become old hat to them at this point.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I agree, who has he actually managed to get over from his NXT era ? maybe damage control but that has a lot to do with Bayley’s charisma as the leader

You're right. I guess you could say LA Knight. He did feel like he was getting over in the last few weeks. But its hard for me to think of anyone as badly lost in the shuffle as Gargano is.

 

[shaz619]

I dunno if Sting is capable of having a 1 v 1 match. I think there's a reason why they have shielded him so heavily and why he has only done multi man matches since coming to AEW.

MJF v Omega would be great for a stadium Dynamite. Doesn't need to be a lengthy feud and is a good match to do between big feuds for MJF. Similar to what the Starks feud was.

I would agree with you, but I feel like he’s capable and I’d have more confidence if Bryan is helping him along the way. In some ways these multi man matches are harder when they don’t protect him / make him take some crazy bumps or resort to some huge spots every time. In a grounded more psychological match, not only could he have a better match, but take fewer risks. There’s only one Shawn but that match with Ric at WM24, he called the whole thing.

 

[shaz619]

You're right. I guess you could say LA Knight. He did feel like he was getting over in the last few weeks. But its hard for me to think of anyone as badly lost in the shuffle as Gargano is.

Yes LA Knight the one exception although from his own class of guys, not really done much at all. They already have plans in place etc but if they’re idle on the roster then maybe were best utilised in NXT until something major came up

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I agree, who has he actually managed to get over from his NXT era ? maybe damage control but that has a lot to do with Bayley’s charisma as the leader

I think Gargano got injured which is why he was missed last 4-5 weeks before Rumble. But yes, he's lost in the shuffle atm. Maybe they're waiting for Ciampa to recover and reform DIY although I think Ciampa is best placed to get over with the main roster audience because of his mic skills.

Walter has definitely gotten over. Street Profits, Otis, Black, Bianca, Rhea, Priest etc they're all from his era considering how much time Gargano has spent down there in NXT. I'd give him a year before labelling him a main roster failure.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Bro that wasn't even the worst thing. I was most appalled by the fact that they showed a WrestleMania graphic of Cody v Roman, right after that or later on the show. And as good as the Heyman-Cody promo was, I hated the line about Cody telling Heyman that he was coming to take both of Roman's belts at Mania. Especially when he had just said "may the best man win" when he came out to the ring.

Stuff like this that just spits in the face of logic really angers me about wrestling. And this is something you unfortunately see too much of wrestling in general.

Hahahh yeah that will likely be an unfortunate by-product of Rollins/Logan Paul. Because you just know that they are going to go out there and try to have a modern style match.

That's why the unified WWE title is such a double edged sword. Maybe could have given Cody a mini feud with someone till EC unless they have plans for a triple threat at Mania (Cody vs Roman vs Sami highly unlikely though).

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There were three things on Dynamite that simply must be seen.

1. MJF v Konosuke Takeshita.

2. This promo from MJF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5udtWjjxnH4

3. Bryan Danielson v Rush


Danielson v Rush in particular was just insane. I can't remember the last time I saw such a high-octane and physical match. Went off at a breakneck pace, and there was rarely a minute to breathe here...for the wrestlers and the fans. And as good as Bryan was here, I have to give credit to Rush (a guy I don't care about at all) for having the cardio to hang with Bryan and bring that amazing physicality that this match needed

Rush is doing a better job of being Andrade than Andrade.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think Gargano got injured which is why he was missed last 4-5 weeks before Rumble. But yes, he's lost in the shuffle atm. Maybe they're waiting for Ciampa to recover and reform DIY although I think Ciampa is best placed to get over with the main roster audience because of his mic skills.

Walter has definitely gotten over. Street Profits, Otis, Black, Bianca, Rhea, Priest etc they're all from his era considering how much time Gargano has spent down there in NXT. I'd give him a year before labelling him a main roster failure.

I think his point was more about the class of NXT that came on after HHH took over creative. WALTER, Profits, Bianca, Priest etc. were all there when Vince was in-charge too.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I think his point was more about the class of NXT that came on after HHH took over creative. WALTER, Profits, Bianca, Priest etc. were all there when Vince was in-charge too.

Nah Profits, Bianca, Priest etc were all called up to WWE in Vince's era and in NXT that was Trips era.
Walter was having squash matches under Vince and his title reign had just begun. It was around that Sheamus feud that he really got super hot. And Walter spent 90% of his time NXT Uk which no one really watches.

Vince definitely knew how to make stars. Bianca is the perfect example. She didn't even win NXT championship but on the main roster her character handling was impeccable. And she is extremely over with their main audience and kids.

Think Gargano was given a push when the main roster target audience didn't know much about him and it drowned there. A proper feud with Miz can actually be very good as long as they don't have Miz do comedy heel shtick. A bit more like he was in 2016 as IC champ.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I'd like Riddle and Pete Dunne pairing rather than the Brawling Brutes. Ridge Holland is very green and isn't even good on mic. Riddle and Dunne had great chemistry and had great matches in that Dusty tournament. And Riddle is super over with the audience. Possibly the biggest NXT success in last 4-5 years.

 

[shaz619]

Nah Profits, Bianca, Priest etc were all called up to WWE in Vince's era and in NXT that was Trips era.
Walter was having squash matches under Vince and his title reign had just begun. It was around that Sheamus feud that he really got super hot. And Walter spent 90% of his time NXT Uk which no one really watches.

Vince definitely knew how to make stars. Bianca is the perfect example. She didn't even win NXT championship but on the main roster her character handling was impeccable. And she is extremely over with their main audience and kids.

Think Gargano was given a push when the main roster target audience didn't know much about him and it drowned there. A proper feud with Miz can actually be very good as long as they don't have Miz do comedy heel shtick. A bit more like he was in 2016 as IC champ.

Vince promoted Gunther really well, he actually understood his shtick and helped carve out his personality which Huntdeep failed at miserably, the name changed worked for the better to and having one side lacky made more sense. Yes, he was lost in the shuffle in NXT UK, more of a guy who had a reputation for great matches but Vince helped with getting him some nice heat and the booking early on was important. Hunter had the luxury of taking advantage of those foundations which were set.

I feel like Huntdeep is letting his ego get in the way of things, in the past he allowed the people who knew what they were doing to help with character development and booking, what are Gabe and Ryan there for exactly? and what is Regal there for? did he bring them all together to massage his huge ego

 

[shaz619]

There were three things on Dynamite that simply must be seen.

1. MJF v Konosuke Takeshita.

2. This promo from MJF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5udtWjjxnH4

3. Bryan Danielson v Rush


Danielson v Rush in particular was just insane. I can't remember the last time I saw such a high-octane and physical match. Went off at a breakneck pace, and there was rarely a minute to breathe here...for the wrestlers and the fans. And as good as Bryan was here, I have to give credit to Rush (a guy I don't care about at all) for having the cardio to hang with Bryan and bring that amazing physicality that this match needed

Rush is doing a better job of being Andrade than Andrade.

What is Andrade doing anyway, I miss watching him in the ring. The Escobar chap is good but am tired of watching these tiny dudes who do not work out properly, AEW is full of them and not everyone can get away with it

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Vince promoted Gunther really well, he actually understood his shtick and helped carve out his personality which Huntdeep failed at miserably, the name changed worked for the better to and having one side lacky made more sense. Yes, he was lost in the shuffle in NXT UK, more of a guy who had a reputation for great matches but Vince helped with getting him some nice heat and the booking early on was important. Hunter had the luxury of taking advantage of those foundations which were set.

I feel like Huntdeep is letting his ego get in the way of things, in the past he allowed the people who knew what they were doing to help with character development and booking, what are Gabe and Ryan there for exactly? and what is Regal there for? did he bring them all together to massage his huge ego

Yes there's no doubt, in terms of making stars, no one has surpassed Vince(yes he has a lot of negative stuff as well)

Sheamus Walter feud was great I'd say. Helped Sheamus get super over with the casual crowd. A McIntyre-Walter feud could be even better considering how hard Drew visibly works at making his (mostly awful creative) feuds interesting.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] today's Raw was freakin awesome for a change.

Lesnar-Lashley segment - solid as ever. Brock is coming off like a real cool dude in his current gimmick

Sami-Cody segment - God, it was amazing. I wasn't really intrigued earlier on with Sami asking Cody if he can win, but the way Cody fired up and delivered that promo was insane. He has that earlier Randy Orton coolness factor about him.

Main event triple threat was fine too. Not much interested in women's wrestling tbh.

Was good to see Balor finally get some chance to wrestle again.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] today's Raw was freakin awesome for a change.

Lesnar-Lashley segment - solid as ever. Brock is coming off like a real cool dude in his current gimmick

Sami-Cody segment - God, it was amazing. I wasn't really intrigued earlier on with Sami asking Cody if he can win, but the way Cody fired up and delivered that promo was insane. He has that earlier Randy Orton coolness factor about him.

Main event triple threat was fine too. Not much interested in women's wrestling tbh.

Was good to see Balor finally get some chance to wrestle again.

That was one hell of a segment, both played their part but I was so blown away by Sami he was the star here, the raw emotion he is able to evoke so naturally and flawlessly is special, shades of Mick Foley and the way he can control the audience / have them invested this way is rare, it doesn’t happen overnight and it wont last so am enjoy the ride. A casual relative been following this angle with me and were under the impression Reigns/Sami was at mania but they want to watch it at EC and never really bother to go out of their way normally, just shows to me that this is the biggest match in wrestling right now and has broken into that mainstream world, who knows, maybe the WM match could be a triple threat? an interesting solution and one I’d find very intriguing.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

That was one hell of a segment, both played their part but I was so blown away by Sami he was the star here, the raw emotion he is able to evoke so naturally and flawlessly is special, shades of Mick Foley and the way he can control the audience / have them invested this way is rare, it doesn’t happen overnight and it wont last so am enjoy the ride. A casual relative been following this angle with me and were under the impression Reigns/Sami was at mania but they want to watch it at EC and never really bother to go out of their way normally, just shows to me that this is the biggest match in wrestling right now and has broken into that mainstream world, who knows, maybe the WM match could be a triple threat? an interesting solution and one I’d find very intriguing.

Would love for it to be a triple threat. But think they'll be looking to see the reaction to the EC match to even think about it.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Vince promoted Gunther really well, he actually understood his shtick and helped carve out his personality which Huntdeep failed at miserably, the name changed worked for the better to and having one side lacky made more sense. Yes, he was lost in the shuffle in NXT UK, more of a guy who had a reputation for great matches but Vince helped with getting him some nice heat and the booking early on was important. Hunter had the luxury of taking advantage of those foundations which were set.

I feel like Huntdeep is letting his ego get in the way of things, in the past he allowed the people who knew what they were doing to help with character development and booking, what are Gabe and Ryan there for exactly? and what is Regal there for? did he bring them all together to massage his huge ego

I dunno about that man. Not been the greatest fan of Hunter's booking but if there's one thing he has gotten right its Gunther. He is the one who put the IC title on him and allowed this 250+ day reign (and counting) to happen. He is also the one who booked Sheamus v Gunther and restored the prestige of this belt by booking Gunther in matches with guys like Ricochet, Rey, Braun, Nakamura on SD!

Vince was by all accounts, done with Gunther and had made his mind up to bury him. It is Gunther's great luck that Vince never got a chance to do so and was gone from creative before he had the chance to do anything.

No idea. There isn't much imagination or creativity to the booking on RAW or SD! Besides Bloodline/Cody/Sami everything feels boring or stale.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] today's Raw was freakin awesome for a change.

Lesnar-Lashley segment - solid as ever. Brock is coming off like a real cool dude in his current gimmick

Sami-Cody segment - God, it was amazing. I wasn't really intrigued earlier on with Sami asking Cody if he can win, but the way Cody fired up and delivered that promo was insane. He has that earlier Randy Orton coolness factor about him.

Main event triple threat was fine too. Not much interested in women's wrestling tbh.

Was good to see Balor finally get some chance to wrestle again.

Haven't see the Cody-Sami segment yet because I wanted to save the best for last. But keeping that aside, I can't say that this show impressed me much. Brock/Lashley segment was fun. Lashley has gone full heel now I guess so hopefully it won't be long before we see The Hurt Business unite. I can actually see them interfering at Elimination Chamber to set up a gimmick match between Lashley/Lesnar at Mania. Brock, you can tell is having some real fun here. I LOLed at some of his material from last week...about how he couldn't stop thinking about Lashley. This feud has gotten much better than when it started few months back. Where Lesnar, for absolutely no reason, would just come out and F-5 Lashley and then just go off without saying anything.

From a wrestling stand-point, this was just another RAW. Didn't really care for any of the matches on this show.

 

[shaz619]

I dunno about that man. Not been the greatest fan of Hunter's booking but if there's one thing he has gotten right its Gunther. He is the one who put the IC title on him and allowed this 250+ day reign (and counting) to happen. He is also the one who booked Sheamus v Gunther and restored the prestige of this belt by booking Gunther in matches with guys like Ricochet, Rey, Braun, Nakamura on SD!

Vince was by all accounts, done with Gunther and had made his mind up to bury him. It is Gunther's great luck that Vince never got a chance to do so and was gone from creative before he had the chance to do anything.

No idea. There isn't much imagination or creativity to the booking on RAW or SD! Besides Bloodline/Cody/Sami everything feels boring or stale.

Gunther was being pushed long before Hunter joined creative. He didn’t lay the foundations of his character which is his weakest point, I don’t disagree on the rest, it was great delegation. Regarding the IC title, long way to go before prestigue is restored, it hasn’t been more relevant since the 90’s, it will go on a run before being devalued by the next champion, they book themselves into a corner with their current booking of the title because whoever is next in line, wont be able to match Gunther or get the same support.

 

[shaz619]

Haven't see the Cody-Sami segment yet because I wanted to save the best for last. But keeping that aside, I can't say that this show impressed me much. Brock/Lashley segment was fun. Lashley has gone full heel now I guess so hopefully it won't be long before we see The Hurt Business unite. I can actually see them interfering at Elimination Chamber to set up a gimmick match between Lashley/Lesnar at Mania. Brock, you can tell is having some real fun here. I LOLed at some of his material from last week...about how he couldn't stop thinking about Lashley. This feud has gotten much better than when it started few months back. Where Lesnar, for absolutely no reason, would just come out and F-5 Lashley and then just go off without saying anything.

From a wrestling stand-point, this was just another RAW. Didn't really care for any of the matches on this show.

Don’t waste your time besides the Cody/Zayn segment really, there is a 11 min clip on BT sports YT channel I don’t know if you will have access to if

 

[shaz619]

Would love for it to be a triple threat. But think they'll be looking to see the reaction to the EC match to even think about it.

It’s interesting to see what will go down even though the outcome is kinda predictable. There will be nuclear heat for Roman.

 

[shaz619]

Is it just me or does WWE 2K23 seem promising? there’s an interesting new fatigue system and the debut of WAR GAMES

 

[The_KING]

Is it just me or does WWE 2K23 seem promising? there’s an interesting new fatigue system and the debut of WAR GAMES

I wish they would go back to season modes like the ones we had in Shut Your Mouth, Here Comes The Pain and early Smackdown vs Raw games. Or they could bring back the Road To Wrestlemania mode from the latter SVR games.

I have zero interest in showcase mode and the career mode in wwe 2k games always tend to be as boring as watching paint dry.

 

[shaz619]

I wish they would go back to season modes like the ones we had in Shut Your Mouth, Here Comes The Pain and early Smackdown vs Raw games. Or they could bring back the Road To Wrestlemania mode from the latter SVR games.

I have zero interest in showcase mode and the career mode in wwe 2k games always tend to be as boring as watching paint dry.

You are right the story modes are dead, they even have a create your own story mode which is so pointless, they are creatively bankrupt on that front. There was so much humour and crazy angles you’d not see on TV, e.g. Undertaker being a tharki with the divas, maybe a rib due to his backstage rep

 

[shaz619]

I have a confession, I don’t know why I do it, but I often pick Benoit in the old games and beat the hell out of Jericho

 

[shaz619]

Also, Goldberg is one of the best wrestlers to play as across platforms. Devastating move after devastating move, in WCW/Revenge he can do stuff others can’t, the MMA striking for example and there’s something satisfying about hitting a spear or the Jack Hammer on the top of Hell in a Cell in Here Comes the Pain

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What did you guys make of Elimination Chamber? I liked Sami v Reigns as a match for 20+ minutes. But I thought they absolutely blew it at the end after the first ref bump. Not Sami or Reigns, but whoever booked this match. The finish was absolutely flat and meant nothing. Not to mention it killed probably one of the hottest crowds I've ever seen at a WWE PPV.

Sami should have won this match and it couldn't have been more obvious immediately after he made his entrance. The reaction he got here was reminiscent of the reaction RVD got at One Night Stand and the one Punk got at Money in the Bank. Hunter and WWE's inclination to stick to their plan just because they thought of it 9 months ago is killing the hottest babyface that WWE have had in forever.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Match of the night for me was easily the US Championship Elimination Chamber. There were so many crazy, absurd and never-before-seen spots in this match, and its remarkable how well they were executed. From Montez Ford literally diving from the roof of the cage to Gargano giving that poisonrana to Bronson Reed and then later a hurricanrana to Seth from the top of one of the pods. This match was crazy exciting and almost all the participants got a good showing here.

Really hope Gargano does not attempt that closeline-into-a-poisonrana spot again though....especially to a guy of that size. Because next time he could very easily have a broken neck for his troubles.

Besides that, I thought the Mixed Tag was okay. Nothing special but nothing bad either. And Lesnar-Lashley was great until they gave us that B.S, DQ finish.

 

[shaz619]

What did you guys make of Elimination Chamber? I liked Sami v Reigns as a match for 20+ minutes. But I thought they absolutely blew it at the end after the first ref bump. Not Sami or Reigns, but whoever booked this match. The finish was absolutely flat and meant nothing. Not to mention it killed probably one of the hottest crowds I've ever seen at a WWE PPV.

Sami should have won this match and it couldn't have been more obvious immediately after he made his entrance. The reaction he got here was reminiscent of the reaction RVD got at One Night Stand and the one Punk got at Money in the Bank. Hunter and WWE's inclination to stick to their plan just because they thought of it 9 months ago is killing the hottest babyface that WWE have had in forever.

The thing is, finish was a foregone conclusion. And I had accepted that, so the match was excellent outside of that for me and they played off on the emotion and story really well. Sami was protected in the finish as well with him effectively pinning Reigns although the ref was down. Sami is just so hot man and deserves to be a credible main eventer, it was a tremendous atmosphere but it’s been this way all year long, for his arc to end this way is obviously very disappointing, even though as a moment, it’s something he will remember and be proud of, going out there and performing that way, in-front of his family and home fans, then sharing it with his best mate at the end is like a bitter sweet WM moment. Hunter has played this safe, he isn’t the radical game changing booker he is made out to be. I think someone like a Heyman would probably have been ballsy enough to book a Sami win here. I get that Cody is the plan and that’s fine, but you can’t be so rigid, I even proposed a triple threat, I just feel regardless of the end game, Sami should be in the WM main event event, maybe it’s still possible for one of the nights, I don’t know.

With Cody being out as long as he was and Reigns probably looking to take a break etc and the risk of not knowing what could happen in the future, they are keen on getting the belt on Cody, its not a bad plan, but they are gate crashing Sami Zayn’s party and this will be looked back on as a big missed opportunity. Cody is over but he has no where near the same momentum or heat as Sami.

I watched Lashley/Lesnar more of a segment, and didn’t bother with the chamber, thought it will be the usual spotfest

 

[shaz619]

I think that the triple threat would be a great idea.

Cody can slot into this story nicely but with a larger focus on Sami.

They could even protect Reigns in the finish, Cody wins the titles by beating Zayn. There’s a story there of him winning the titles by pinning the guy who wasn’t the champion. Reigns goes AWOL and Cody/Zayn could have a singles programme. Reigns could maybe return at SummerSlam to challenge Cody etc

This way while Zayn doesn’t necessarily get the belts, he gets that main event exposure and maybe we build towards him winning thr RR next year.

But it would have been better if Zayn beat Reigns for the titles, and had a run untill SS at minimum where he drops the belts to Reigns maybe and the following mania, Cody wins.

 

[The_KING]

Reigns - Zayn storyline is everything that I love about wrestling. Great storyline, which is what wrestling used to be about back in the day. Nowadays, it is all about little indy midgets doing flips and kicks in the ring. The bloodline storyline was a throwback to the good old days.

I really enjoyed the match. The finish could have been better, but really Zayn vs Reigns had to happen at Mania. But they have to make overrated Cody Rhodes face Reigns at Mania.

 

[shaz619]

Reigns - Zayn storyline is everything that I love about wrestling. Great storyline, which is what wrestling used to be about back in the day. Nowadays, it is all about little indy midgets doing flips and kicks in the ring. The bloodline storyline was a throwback to the good old days.

I really enjoyed the match. The finish could have been better, but really Zayn vs Reigns had to happen at Mania. But they have to make overrated Cody Rhodes face Reigns at Mania.

Good post, it’s a throwback. The story has bought back some old school fans to and resonated with casuals to.

Casuals I know said they expected this at mania and just don’t get Cody Rhodes, I tried explaining his backstory and his motivations, which is basically that he wants to win the belt because his dad couldn’t win it lol when I thought about it, it is really basic isn’t it. Am sure they will look to build something up but this is a big missed chance.

On Cody, he is a better performer compared to 10 years ago on the mic and in the ring, and he is popular with the white working class / “blue collar” Americans and has that name value, they want him to take some weight off Reigns shoulders, it’s gruelling the schedule and no off season. But what they don’t get is, you need 3-4 big players in the game, if Cody gets injured, what are you going to do? pushing the right people then is fine but maybe you booked them weak or they’ve lost steam. When Austin was injured, Rock was already over and established main eventer, taking on the lead role pushed him to superstardom. They’ve already botched the return of Bray Wyatt, he along with Zayn, Cody and Reigns are the top merch sellers in the company

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Match of the night for me was easily the US Championship Elimination Chamber. There were so many crazy, absurd and never-before-seen spots in this match, and its remarkable how well they were executed. From Montez Ford literally diving from the roof of the cage to Gargano giving that poisonrana to Bronson Reed and then later a hurricanrana to Seth from the top of one of the pods. This match was crazy exciting and almost all the participants got a good showing here.

Really hope Gargano does not attempt that closeline-into-a-poisonrana spot again though....especially to a guy of that size. Because next time he could very easily have a broken neck for his troubles.

Besides that, I thought the Mixed Tag was okay. Nothing special but nothing bad either. And Lesnar-Lashley was great until they gave us that B.S, DQ finish.

I loved Sami-Roman. An old school main event with a structure of a conventional wrestling match. Only masterful storytelling and perfect near falls. Austin, Taker, Dwayne, HBK used to wrestle mainevents like these back in the day. No gymnastics, just basic moves and stuff. Roman played the heel perfectly and Sami the face. I knew Sami wasn't winning so getting disappointed on that was pointless for me. The good thing was how they didn't turn Jey heel there. The way it all mirrored the past spots and stuff was just too brilliant for me.

US title match was a typical NXT style match that we all enjoyed till 2021. Logan Paul's sneaking in was done perfectly. There was no loser really. Gargano looked the most at home on the main roster in his run so far. Priest shone as well. They played it a little safe there by not having Montez start the match and be the sort of iron man (considering last time they did that, they had to change Mania main event with Kofi)

Everything else was just meh.

They couldn't have botched Lesnar-Lashley feud worse than this seriously. And going by Lesnar's antics, think he sorta turned heel. And the crowd absolutely loves this gimmick of Lesnar and they've messed it up.

Think he'll face Bray at Mania now who is the last person I want Lesnar to feud with. The two have no chemistry whatsoever, their character arcs have nothing in there to tell a good story. And neither should be losing tbh.
I am not going to buy Lesnar getting spooked by Uncle Howdy or Fiend or whatever. And a haunted house match would be nothing short of a borefest between the two.

Regarding Edge, they should have just done a singles match between Balor and Edge 6 months ago and be done with it yet it keeps going like a soap opera. Think they'll do a HIAC at Mania with Demon King vs Vampire Edge when all that feud needed was a conventional singles match between the two without any shenanigans.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I have a weird feeling they're not going to have Cody win the title just yet. They'll be looking to take Roman's run over 1000 days. Maybe Cody'll win at SS.

 

[shaz619]

I have a weird feeling they're not going to have Cody win the title just yet. They'll be looking to take Roman's run over 1000 days. Maybe Cody'll win at SS.

Right now, the only booking decision which makes perfect sense, is Sami going over for the titles, everything else doesn’t matter. If Cody wins, will I really care? not at the moment, if Reigns retains and prolongs his run, will I really care? am not fussed.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Right now, the only booking decision which makes perfect sense, is Sami going over for the titles, everything else doesn’t matter. If Cody wins, will I really care? not at the moment, if Reigns retains and prolongs his run, will I really care? am not fussed.

I am curious as to how they are going to turn Jey into a loathsome heel now. He's the most sympathetic and tormented character in the Bloodline and is also second to Roman in terms of personality and character development.

Giving Sami the tag titles would be a disservice now tbh. Atleast have him destroy the Bloodline. Even though they protected Sami in the loss, they still presented him as being quite inferior to Roman and if he couldn't win it with the home crowd energy, it's highly unlikely he'll do it later.

I am actually fine with Cody being the guy to dethrone him although I would have liked Drew to win atleast one title earlier. Cody is the guy WWE can market and brand like they did with Cena and that's what Cody wants and is good at. Roman is probably tired of all the extra stuff and appearances he has to do as the face of WWE.

There's still Randy, AJ, Lashley and Seth that Roman is yet to beat. They messed up the opportunity for a red hot Sheamus to have a go at Roman as well.

Sami is love tbh. He reminded me of the reformed HBK as the underdog in the match with his ability to evoke emotion through body language.

I'd give the match 5/5 and possibly the best Roman match of his run so far. Bryan vs Roman (Bryan's last match) would come in at 2 solely because of no crowd.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The thing is, finish was a foregone conclusion. And I had accepted that, so the match was excellent outside of that for me and they played off on the emotion and story really well. Sami was protected in the finish as well with him effectively pinning Reigns although the ref was down. Sami is just so hot man and deserves to be a credible main eventer, it was a tremendous atmosphere but it’s been this way all year long, for his arc to end this way is obviously very disappointing, even though as a moment, it’s something he will remember and be proud of, going out there and performing that way, in-front of his family and home fans, then sharing it with his best mate at the end is like a bitter sweet WM moment. Hunter has played this safe, he isn’t the radical game changing booker he is made out to be. I think someone like a Heyman would probably have been ballsy enough to book a Sami win here. I get that Cody is the plan and that’s fine, but you can’t be so rigid, I even proposed a triple threat, I just feel regardless of the end game, Sami should be in the WM main event event, maybe it’s still possible for one of the nights, I don’t know.

With Cody being out as long as he was and Reigns probably looking to take a break etc and the risk of not knowing what could happen in the future, they are keen on getting the belt on Cody, its not a bad plan, but they are gate crashing Sami Zayn’s party and this will be looked back on as a big missed opportunity. Cody is over but he has no where near the same momentum or heat as Sami.

I watched Lashley/Lesnar more of a segment, and didn’t bother with the chamber, thought it will be the usual spotfest

I doubt that they will do that. Eventhough making it a three way is the only way to not ruin Sami's momentum right now. In many ways it is a catch 22 situation. I can definitely see the Cody side of the argument. I think you made a great point about Cody being a guy that blue collar white Americans can get behind in a big way. And I can also see how him not winning could turn into a Lex Luger situation, where he was picked to be anointed as the guy and then at the last minute, Vince changed his plans. That said, you have to make difficult decisions in this business. And unfortunately it seems HHH is content at just playing it safe. Yeah, Cody winning would be great. But the simple fact is that Sami Zayn is white-hot right now and nothing even remotely comes close. Not Cody, not anyone. Which is why he should be the one having that fairytale moment.

I'd rec the Chamber match. It was alot of fun and went by in a flash. A very different Chamber match than the type we are used to seeing.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I loved Sami-Roman. An old school main event with a structure of a conventional wrestling match. Only masterful storytelling and perfect near falls. Austin, Taker, Dwayne, HBK used to wrestle mainevents like these back in the day. No gymnastics, just basic moves and stuff. Roman played the heel perfectly and Sami the face. I knew Sami wasn't winning so getting disappointed on that was pointless for me. The good thing was how they didn't turn Jey heel there. The way it all mirrored the past spots and stuff was just too brilliant for me.

US title match was a typical NXT style match that we all enjoyed till 2021. Logan Paul's sneaking in was done perfectly. There was no loser really. Gargano looked the most at home on the main roster in his run so far. Priest shone as well. They played it a little safe there by not having Montez start the match and be the sort of iron man (considering last time they did that, they had to change Mania main event with Kofi)

Everything else was just meh.

They couldn't have botched Lesnar-Lashley feud worse than this seriously. And going by Lesnar's antics, think he sorta turned heel. And the crowd absolutely loves this gimmick of Lesnar and they've messed it up.

Think he'll face Bray at Mania now who is the last person I want Lesnar to feud with. The two have no chemistry whatsoever, their character arcs have nothing in there to tell a good story. And neither should be losing tbh.
I am not going to buy Lesnar getting spooked by Uncle Howdy or Fiend or whatever. And a haunted house match would be nothing short of a borefest between the two.

Regarding Edge, they should have just done a singles match between Balor and Edge 6 months ago and be done with it yet it keeps going like a soap opera. Think they'll do a HIAC at Mania with Demon King vs Vampire Edge when all that feud needed was a conventional singles match between the two without any shenanigans.

It was definitely a great match till the ref bumps. After that it just started getting ridiculous and began stretching the bounds of logic. I have always hated ref bumps in WWE main-event matches because they last so feaking long that they take you out of the match. And this one had two. The flat finish didn't help either. It felt uncreative. Like they didn't put much thought into it. Could've come up with something better imo.

The Jey Uso stuff was great tho. More compelling storytelling. Jey Uso's arc in this whole thing is just incredible. No one has been through more than he has with Roman when you think about where this all started back in 2020. And his development as a character has been beyond remarkable. Definitely think he should be looked at as a singles star down the line. And yeah, I'm actually glad they didn't turn him heel either. And honestly, I'm done predicting where this storyline is going to go. At this point I'm just interested in watching it as a fan.

Yeah, I mean this Edge-Balor storyline has got to be the most amazing waste of Edge's talents. Especially when you consider that he has limited time left on his career. A Vampire Edge-Demon King HIAC match could be fun. But man, this feud outlived it usefulness long ago.

Elimination Chamber match was a ton of fun.

Looks like they are going for Lesnar-Omos at Mania and holy hell what a waste of Lesnar's talents that would be. Especially after the waste of time this Lesnar-Lashley feud has been. Seems they are doing it just to get the visual of Lesnar holding Omos on his shoulders for the F-5. Hopefully Lesnar throws him around for 30 seconds hits the F5 and pins him.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I am curious as to how they are going to turn Jey into a loathsome heel now. He's the most sympathetic and tormented character in the Bloodline and is also second to Roman in terms of personality and character development.

Giving Sami the tag titles would be a disservice now tbh. Atleast have him destroy the Bloodline. Even though they protected Sami in the loss, they still presented him as being quite inferior to Roman and if he couldn't win it with the home crowd energy, it's highly unlikely he'll do it later.

I am actually fine with Cody being the guy to dethrone him although I would have liked Drew to win atleast one title earlier. Cody is the guy WWE can market and brand like they did with Cena and that's what Cody wants and is good at. Roman is probably tired of all the extra stuff and appearances he has to do as the face of WWE.

There's still Randy, AJ, Lashley and Seth that Roman is yet to beat. They messed up the opportunity for a red hot Sheamus to have a go at Roman as well.

Sami is love tbh. He reminded me of the reformed HBK as the underdog in the match with his ability to evoke emotion through body language.

I'd give the match 5/5 and possibly the best Roman match of his run so far. Bryan vs Roman (Bryan's last match) would come in at 2 solely because of no crowd.

Randy has been injured for a year plus. No idea when he is coming back. Lashley and AJ have lost to him in the past. And it doesn't seem like they will be crossing paths anytime soon. Considering AJ is injured and Lashley is heel.

With Seth I think they are doing a deliberate storyline of Roman having never beaten him...which they will probably pay off with a Mania match years down the line.

Personally, I think Roman is losing at Mania.

 

[shaz619]

I have a weird feeling they're not going to have Cody win the title just yet. They'll be looking to take Roman's run over 1000 days. Maybe Cody'll win at SS.

By the way, I can’t find the stats but hasn’t Reigns already surpassed 1000 days for combined world title reigns ? I’d have thought he’d be in the top 5 or close to Pedro Morales

 

[shaz619]

I doubt that they will do that. Eventhough making it a three way is the only way to not ruin Sami's momentum right now. In many ways it is a catch 22 situation. I can definitely see the Cody side of the argument. I think you made a great point about Cody being a guy that blue collar white Americans can get behind in a big way. And I can also see how him not winning could turn into a Lex Luger situation, where he was picked to be anointed as the guy and then at the last minute, Vince changed his plans. That said, you have to make difficult decisions in this business. And unfortunately it seems HHH is content at just playing it safe. Yeah, Cody winning would be great. But the simple fact is that Sami Zayn is white-hot right now and nothing even remotely comes close. Not Cody, not anyone. Which is why he should be the one having that fairytale moment.

I'd rec the Chamber match. It was alot of fun and went by in a flash. A very different Chamber match than the type we are used to seeing.

Even if Sami didn’t win, him being in that main event would be a fitting pay off to his arc and they could capitalise on that in a 2023 baby face run, he’s so over that he could also headline some house shows which they can struggle with post mania. I don’t think Cody would get Lex Luger’d bro especially now, he’s going to be world champion sooner or later, WWE see the $$$ in him and the fans are attached to his arc when we’ve barely really built anything of note around his ambitions, he has great pull and the name value is a draw. I agree with you totally and tbh if Sami is not winning and if there’s not enough heat in a Cody triumph, a Reigns defence is not out of question. I will check out the chamber in that case I normally see these gimmick matches as spot fest

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Even if Sami didn’t win, him being in that main event would be a fitting pay off to his arc and they could capitalise on that in a 2023 baby face run, he’s so over that he could also headline some house shows which they can struggle with post mania. I don’t think Cody would get Lex Luger’d bro especially now, he’s going to be world champion sooner or later, WWE see the $$$ in him and the fans are attached to his arc when we’ve barely really built anything of note around his ambitions, he has great pull and the name value is a draw. I agree with you totally and tbh if Sami is not winning and if there’s not enough heat in a Cody triumph, a Reigns defence is not out of question. I will check out the chamber in that case I normally see these gimmick matches as spot fest

It was an NXT esque match. You'd enjoy it if you liked NXT's multi men matches.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

By the way, I can’t find the stats but hasn’t Reigns already surpassed 1000 days for combined world title reigns ? I’d have thought he’d be in the top 5 or close to Pedro Morales

WWE put a pic or something last week of Roman's 900 day run.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Randy has been injured for a year plus. No idea when he is coming back. Lashley and AJ have lost to him in the past. And it doesn't seem like they will be crossing paths anytime soon. Considering AJ is injured and Lashley is heel.

With Seth I think they are doing a deliberate storyline of Roman having never beaten him...which they will probably pay off with a Mania match years down the line.

Personally, I think Roman is losing at Mania.

Yes but hurt business Lashley vs Bloodline Roman could have been fun.

Balor, Cena, Bryan, Brock, Drew, KO, Braun etc everyone had lost to Roman before but they created a feud in the current run as well. Like seriously, there isn't a guy who Roman hasn't beaten.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It was definitely a great match till the ref bumps. After that it just started getting ridiculous and began stretching the bounds of logic. I have always hated ref bumps in WWE main-event matches because they last so feaking long that they take you out of the match. And this one had two. The flat finish didn't help either. It felt uncreative. Like they didn't put much thought into it. Could've come up with something better imo.

The Jey Uso stuff was great tho. More compelling storytelling. Jey Uso's arc in this whole thing is just incredible. No one has been through more than he has with Roman when you think about where this all started back in 2020. And his development as a character has been beyond remarkable. Definitely think he should be looked at as a singles star down the line. And yeah, I'm actually glad they didn't turn him heel either. And honestly, I'm done predicting where this storyline is going to go. At this point I'm just interested in watching it as a fan.

Yeah, I mean this Edge-Balor storyline has got to be the most amazing waste of Edge's talents. Especially when you consider that he has limited time left on his career. A Vampire Edge-Demon King HIAC match could be fun. But man, this feud outlived it usefulness long ago.

Elimination Chamber match was a ton of fun.

Looks like they are going for Lesnar-Omos at Mania and holy hell what a waste of Lesnar's talents that would be. Especially after the waste of time this Lesnar-Lashley feud has been. Seems they are doing it just to get the visual of Lesnar holding Omos on his shoulders for the F-5. Hopefully Lesnar throws him around for 30 seconds hits the F5 and pins him.

I was fine with the ref bumps otherwise the Usos interference stuff would have been hard to book especially the Jey angle. Think you wanted Sami to win real bad which is why you didn't enjoy that sequence. Happens with every fan. I was so ****** off at the ring apron collapsing in the Roman-Demon Balor match. And that Jericho winning the undisputed titles from Rock and Austin with interferences gave me a mental trauma back then lol.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] so who are the royal wrestling families? (Cody's theme)

1. McMahons
2. Harts
3. Anoi
4. Von Erichs?

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] so who are the royal wrestling families? (Cody's theme)

1. McMahons
2. Harts
3. Anoi
4. Von Erichs?

Perhaps the Harts, also due to the dungeon and everlasting legacy in the business. Stu also trained Frtiz.

If we’re talking world championship pedigree the Anoi’s for the stamp Rock and Reigns have left and their family dominating for generations, it’s ridiculous and it will continue.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Perhaps the Harts, also due to the dungeon and everlasting legacy in the business. Stu also trained Frtiz.

If we’re talking world championship pedigree the Anoi’s for the stamp Rock and Reigns have left and their family dominating for generations, it’s ridiculous and it will continue.

McMahons were the first that came to my mind for some reason even though none of them were wrestlers.

Anois are going to legit rule the wrestling business.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Even if Sami didn’t win, him being in that main event would be a fitting pay off to his arc and they could capitalise on that in a 2023 baby face run, he’s so over that he could also headline some house shows which they can struggle with post mania. I don’t think Cody would get Lex Luger’d bro especially now, he’s going to be world champion sooner or later, WWE see the $$$ in him and the fans are attached to his arc when we’ve barely really built anything of note around his ambitions, he has great pull and the name value is a draw. I agree with you totally and tbh if Sami is not winning and if there’s not enough heat in a Cody triumph, a Reigns defence is not out of question. I will check out the chamber in that case I normally see these gimmick matches as spot fest

Thing is, when people get behind someone and they see that person booked like crap, or not be booked in according to the reactions that they are getting...the the fans tend to turn sour on them. This has happened numerous times. But then that same argument applies to Sami aswell. Who is even hotter than Cody right now.

Regardless of what they do, one thing has become abundantly clear. That Sami Zayn must become a World Champion in WWE. Might not happen today...at WrestleMania, or even in the next 6 months. But it has to happen eventually. And honestly, I would love to see him win the Rumble next year after coming in at 1 or 2 and then go on to Mania to win the big one. Yeah, I'll have to wait A LONG time for that. But I think that would be an incredible underdog story that the fans will get behind with open arms.

Bryan had arguably the best year of his career in 2014, when he was white hot as a babyface. And the fans were still clamoring for him to win the Rumble when 2015 rolled around.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes but hurt business Lashley vs Bloodline Roman could have been fun.

Balor, Cena, Bryan, Brock, Drew, KO, Braun etc everyone had lost to Roman before but they created a feud in the current run as well. Like seriously, there isn't a guy who Roman hasn't beaten.

I think they've missed the boat with that now. Although I agree that Bloodline v Hurt Business would have been a fun feud eventho both are heel groups. You get Usos v Cedric/Shelton, Roman v Lashley, 6 man tags and MVP v Heyman on the mic.

WWE needs to do more faction v faction feuds. They rarely do any. Its usually one faction dominating and running roughshod. And its the same currently with Judgement Day and Bloodline on each brand.

Btw what do you make of them going with Bray v Lashley for Mania?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I was fine with the ref bumps otherwise the Usos interference stuff would have been hard to book especially the Jey angle. Think you wanted Sami to win real bad which is why you didn't enjoy that sequence. Happens with every fan. I was so ****** off at the ring apron collapsing in the Roman-Demon Balor match. And that Jericho winning the undisputed titles from Rock and Austin with interferences gave me a mental trauma back then lol.

Well honestly I'm not a big fan of interferences in general. But yeah, that's probably why. I mean the crowd was so hot. The match was so good. Up to that ref bump it was by far the best straight-up wrestling match of Roman's reign along with that match he had against Bryan on SmackDown.

I get that they had to tell the story. But I could have done without the extra ref bump. One was enough.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] so who are the royal wrestling families? (Cody's theme)

1. McMahons
2. Harts
3. Anoi
4. Von Erichs?

I think probably the Harts. Although it could be the McMahons too. Not entirely sure.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I think they've missed the boat with that now. Although I agree that Bloodline v Hurt Business would have been a fun feud eventho both are heel groups. You get Usos v Cedric/Shelton, Roman v Lashley, 6 man tags and MVP v Heyman on the mic.

WWE needs to do more faction v faction feuds. They rarely do any. Its usually one faction dominating and running roughshod. And its the same currently with Judgement Day and Bloodline on each brand.

Btw what do you make of them going with Bray v Lashley for Mania?

The feud literally has no story tbh. Bray and Lashley have had no history or anything. Plus I'd hate Lashley to be involved in a spooky sort of match especially when he isn't even that good of an actor.

Kross vs Bray would have made for a better if predictable story. or even Judgement day would have made for a more sensible feud for Bray.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Well honestly I'm not a big fan of interferences in general. But yeah, that's probably why. I mean the crowd was so hot. The match was so good. Up to that ref bump it was by far the best straight-up wrestling match of Roman's reign along with that match he had against Bryan on SmackDown.

I get that they had to tell the story. But I could have done without the extra ref bump. One was enough.

However I think there used to be a point of Roman being the worst "main guy" who couldn't talk or wrestle have been put to rest now. Roman will probably end up as an ATG as far as WWE is concerned.

 

[shaz619]

Thing is, when people get behind someone and they see that person booked like crap, or not be booked in according to the reactions that they are getting...the the fans tend to turn sour on them. This has happened numerous times. But then that same argument applies to Sami aswell. Who is even hotter than Cody right now.

Regardless of what they do, one thing has become abundantly clear. That Sami Zayn must become a World Champion in WWE. Might not happen today...at WrestleMania, or even in the next 6 months. But it has to happen eventually. And honestly, I would love to see him win the Rumble next year after coming in at 1 or 2 and then go on to Mania to win the big one. Yeah, I'll have to wait A LONG time for that. But I think that would be an incredible underdog story that the fans will get behind with open arms.

Bryan had arguably the best year of his career in 2014, when he was white hot as a babyface. And the fans were still clamoring for him to win the Rumble when 2015 rolled around.

Now that you mention it, they deliberately may have kept Sami out of the RR this year to avoid a Daniel Bryan situation.

I hope so that would be brilliant, but depending on how WM goes for him, am not sure I have the confidence at this time.

It’s been a while since someone won the RR with a proper build and underdog story surrounding them, you could say Drew but they have neutralised his appeal completely

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The feud literally has no story tbh. Bray and Lashley have had no history or anything. Plus I'd hate Lashley to be involved in a spooky sort of match especially when he isn't even that good of an actor.

Kross vs Bray would have made for a better if predictable story. or even Judgement day would have made for a more sensible feud for Bray.

The problem with Kross vs. Bray is that Kross does not have alot of star power. And seeing how its Mania I'm guessing that they thought they need a big match for Bray, who is pretty over with the crowd. Eventhough his stuff since coming back has been more miss than hit.

But I completely agree with you. It's probably gonna be another weird match where the lights are red, pink, green or some other color. And it makes zero sense for Bray to just come out and say I'm gonna challenge the winner of these two guys who have been having a completely separate feud on a different brand that has absolutely nothing to do with me.

It reminds me of when they did a Fatal 4 Way on RAW for the right to challenge The Undertaker at WrestleMania. Just felt random and out of the blue.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

However I think there used to be a point of Roman being the worst "main guy" who couldn't talk or wrestle have been put to rest now. Roman will probably end up as an ATG as far as WWE is concerned.

This run has been Roman's HOF run. When you think about it he has surpassed Triple H's reign of terror. From the standpoint of a top heel just running through the roster.

Which is not to say that H's run wasn't detrimental. Because he was burying guys that could have become stars. Whereas WWE barely had any stars or potential stars when Roman started his reign. And now the stage is set for all that hardwork and build that 1000 day reign to culminate, and a new star to be made.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Now that you mention it, they deliberately may have kept Sami out of the RR this year to avoid a Daniel Bryan situation.

I hope so that would be brilliant, but depending on how WM goes for him, am not sure I have the confidence at this time.

It’s been a while since someone won the RR with a proper build and underdog story surrounding them, you could say Drew but they have neutralised his appeal completely

I'm certain they did. And they made sure to tell us in the pre-show so we wouldn't be expecting it during the match. Not to mention, sending Cody at 30 so that he got a big pop.

But yeah, I see your point. As great as that would be, WWE's future is remarkably uncertain. We don't know where the company will be 3 months from now, let alone 1 year from now. There's no telling how a potential sale or Vince coming back as head of creative will affect the company too.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

This run has been Roman's HOF run. When you think about it he has surpassed Triple H's reign of terror. From the standpoint of a top heel just running through the roster.

Which is not to say that H's run wasn't detrimental. Because he was burying guys that could have become stars. Whereas WWE barely had any stars or potential stars when Roman started his reign. And now the stage is set for all that hardwork and build that 1000 day reign to culminate, and a new star to be made.

Trips reign of terror was mostly burying everyone (that Kevin Nash feud was so awful). He only put over Benoit and Batista with Batista being the real star that was made out of that. Randy stumbled real hard when he won the title from Benoit.

Roman has elevated a lot of talent even in defeats. Jey Uso in particular. I'll be honest before that feud I couldn't differentiate between Jimmy and Jey. Logan Paul, Seth and even Cesaro all came out looking stronger than they looked before it. If it weren't for Randy getting injured last year, we would have had a killer feud feud between the two considering the reactions Randy was getting around then. Sami's the most over he's ever been.
Drew and Balor are the two who were literally buried in their feuds.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I'm certain they did. And they made sure to tell us in the pre-show so we wouldn't be expecting it during the match. Not to mention, sending Cody at 30 so that he got a big pop.

But yeah, I see your point. As great as that would be, WWE's future is remarkably uncertain. We don't know where the company will be 3 months from now, let alone 1 year from now. There's no telling how a potential sale or Vince coming back as head of creative will affect the company too.

so found out through twitter Uncle Dave gave that Roman-Sami match a 4.75. Guess there weren't enough canadian destroyers and superkicks there. No idea why that guy has so many fans. His star ratings are so biased. And he criticized Helwani of being a WWE guy.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_yWxB9VW0c


Even though it's a spoof on promos, but god it's 10 times better than the robotic promos of these days (Ricochet, Mustafa Ali, the whole NXT,Kross, even the legendary Rey etc)

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] so guys nothing going on in pro wrestling these days? Uncharacteristic for the Mania season.