The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[RedwoodOriginal]

Mox is a deeply trouble individual with significant mental problems, he grew up poor, stole food to eat enough and abused drugs. He’s an introverted guy so can’t really communicate effectively unless it’s an artificial situation, this is why he comes across as so odd during interviews and has difficulty expressing himself. Being a product of the east, his attitudes are a lot different to someone from the south, am not saying he’s any less tougher but in the east they handle things differently and are extremely stubborn, this may explain why Austin was so bemused by his behaviour, the US is huge and there’s a big culture clash between states. Wrestling was an escape for him and I think his worst internal tendencies manifested in CZW, for the better when it came to promos but for the worst in the ring. Not being able to get that beast out in a structured environment like the WWE must have been a big issue for him, but mental turbulence can manifest anytime and despite Tony giving him the freedom to be his own boss, he still needed to go into rehab, and I think a part of it is that he is someone who could benefit from structure even though he doesn’t realise it, mental turmoil needs routine and structure.

I think a combination of his personal issues and lack of ring awareness come out in his matches, but you really do wonder on the latter point because he keeps doing the same thing over and over which points to a deeper issue, this guy was trained by Les Thatcher and was exposed to guys like Steamboat and Harley, it doesn’t make any sense. His IQ may not have been poor originally but in recent times it had deteriorated significantly. I am all for more realism between the ropes, but his interpretation of that and analogy with MMA is poor. Lesnar, Bryan, Angle, Benoit, Bret and even Kyle O’Reilly are better examples of how to incorporate combat sports or free style wrestling in pro-wrestling environment.

For AEW, for the most part Mox was been a stand up guy from them apart from his need to satisfy his inner issues by indulging outlaw mud-shows or blading excessively like a mad man. But creatively, am afraid he hasn’t delivered for me in terms of the ceiling which is possible given his talents.

Brilliant post. And I think your first paragraph in particular got to the root of the matter better than I ever could. There's a video on YouTube "Jon Moxley is A Sick Guy" that goes deep into his CZW days. And while that's intended to be a positive video, it invertedly ends up hitting almost all the points you mentioned here...including the one positive: the chance he got to to hone his promo skills.

Well a large part of that is deliberate. I saw an interview he did last night actually. He doesn't do many, which is likely because of the reasons you mentioned. But this one was with his wife. And in the interview he said that he isn't that interested in "following convention" and is more interested in doing things "his way". I guess that explains why oftentimes his matches don't make a lick of sense.

I'm still more positive about his AEW run than you. Because he seems to be one guy that they can always rely on. He is a draw in the ratings and on PPV. And seems to feel more over than anyone when he comes out. Though I definitely see where you're coming from.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

KO/Zayn vs The Usos has to main-event Night One tomorrow. It would be ridiculous if Charlotte v Ripley did. Especially considering how over this angle is. And that Ripley, who is a heel and will likely be going over in that other match.

Would be quite a feather in the cap of KO to main-event Mania two years in a row. Amazing how he hasn't been world champion in 6 years.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Really feel for Lashley here. From unexplained a few heel face turns in the last year to being involved in one of the box office feuds with Lesnar leading up to Mania (regardless of how poorly booked it was) to being inserted in a nonsensical spooky feud with Bray to getting relegated to Andre The Giant Battle Royal on the SD before Mania is a real shame.

Seems like Bray is a void who when he touches anything gets sucked into a void. Only Bryan and Cena have been able to come out of a feud with him unscathed.

You feel bad for Lashley? I feel bad for LA Knight! He got such a massive pop in the Battle Royale tonight and the entire arena booed in unison when he was eliminated. Seriously, has anyone gotten the shorter end of the stick more than this guy? Despite being buried week after week pretty much since the beginning of that Bray feud he has found a way to get over through his promos and personality. He has so much untapped potential and its heartbreaking to see him booked like absolute s**t. And now he is likely going to get buried at Mania too in an impromptu squash match against Lashley.

Lashley, as great as he is, has a certain ceiling. He will never be a truly top caliber talent in my opinion because of his lack of ability on the mic. He has improved leaps and bounds as a wrestler post 2015. I think TNA was where he really started to improve and WWE clearly saw that which is why they brought him back. But for me, he lacks that extra something that guys like Reigns, Cody, Orton have. If I was him, I would count myself lucky to be out of that feud with Bray though.

Because let's be honest, this Bray run has been an unmitigated disaster. Lot of conflicting reports...some saying he was legitimately injured...others say he no-showed MSG because they wanted him to bring back The Fiend. One thing has been obvious though, this storyline that he has been doing since his return has been absolute garbage. It has made zero sense, it has had zero pay-off, it has gone on for an eternity and all this guy has done is come on TV and cut puzzling promos that never get to the damn point. The one time he did wrestle, we got a 5 minute squash match with rave lighting, that was primarily a commercial for Mountain Dew.

Alot of people over the years have talked about how Bray is hard to work with. And honestly, I am starting to see why. If there is any guy that needs a significant level of quality-control over him, its him. He has good ideas, but needs a filter.

Right now though I think he needs to swallow his pride and just bring back The Fiend. Atleast that was a cool gimmick that the fans loved and that the company didn't have a problem with, because of the merch sales.

There are ways you can rework that gimmick where he doesn't always have to go out there and kill his opponents. That's the best of both worlds because it allows him do his weird, confusing promos that only make sense in his own head and gives the fans that cool character that feels like something out of a horror movie.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

As wrestling fans, we get our moments and there's still alot of good stuff in pro-wrestling.

But ultimately, we're all just chasing THIS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHB6Jk3JPpU

Greatest Mania ever. Greatest Mania main-event ever. Greatest video package to hype a fight ever put together.

Just two of the biggest stars in this business going at it at the hottest epoch in the history of pro-wrestling.

 

[shaz619]

The amount of unnecessary bladejobs and so called hardcore stuff some people do it these days looks so desperate for attention. Most of the times, it doesn't even add anything to the storyline or the match itself.
I like Mox and think he was the first big acquisition after AEW's inception to getting a proper face of the promotion. But his unhinged self has been consuming his career. He wasn't dealt well enough in WWE enough and was always seen as the third spoke of The Shield but still Mox hasn't done anything to suggest he has the brain to complement his talents.

Plus his feud with Punk was so aberrant. Like getting that one squash match where Punk lost was so out of place, where Punk thought he got injured and lost only to win it 2 weeks later. Like even Rocky 3 didn't have such premise. Rocky lost to Clubber Lang in Rocky 3 cause he was found undercooked and one dimensional in style and only got better to beat Lang afterwards when he adopted his previous rival as his trainer whose brain and style he incorporated in his own.

Mox has issues he needs to address, he wont agree but I don’t know if AEW is a right fit for him on a personal level because of his background

 

[shaz619]

Brilliant post. And I think your first paragraph in particular got to the root of the matter better than I ever could. There's a video on YouTube "Jon Moxley is A Sick Guy" that goes deep into his CZW days. And while that's intended to be a positive video, it invertedly ends up hitting almost all the points you mentioned here...including the one positive: the chance he got to to hone his promo skills.

Well a large part of that is deliberate. I saw an interview he did last night actually. He doesn't do many, which is likely because of the reasons you mentioned. But this one was with his wife. And in the interview he said that he isn't that interested in "following convention" and is more interested in doing things "his way". I guess that explains why oftentimes his matches don't make a lick of sense.

I'm still more positive about his AEW run than you. Because he seems to be one guy that they can always rely on. He is a draw in the ratings and on PPV. And seems to feel more over than anyone when he comes out. Though I definitely see where you're coming from.

I’ve been a fan of his even in his first stint as champion in the WWE, you will laugh but he passed the eye test and I saw him as a sort of hybrid between Mankind + Austin. He is in constant battle with himself which reinforces your point on him wanting to do things his way. I don’t know think we know half of what his deprived background may have entailed. You worry for his well being come to think about it. I agree he has been a business success for them but for me, I know he is capable of so much more and I’ve enjoyed some of his stuff, but he could be doing a lot better imo.

 

[shaz619]

KO/Zayn vs The Usos has to main-event Night One tomorrow. It would be ridiculous if Charlotte v Ripley did. Especially considering how over this angle is. And that Ripley, who is a heel and will likely be going over in that other match.

Would be quite a feather in the cap of KO to main-event Mania two years in a row. Amazing how he hasn't been world champion in 6 years.

If am honest with you, I’d be happy with either. Sami to me should have been in THE main event and now that it’s not happening, am not fussed. Am a mark for the Flair’s and I am of the view that Charlotte is arguably the greatest woman to ever do it and she has tremendous chemistry in the ring with majority of her opponents, this should be Rhea’s star making performance. But yeah I think given the heat bloodline v ko/zayn have, it might be unfair to put Flair and Rhea under so much pressure.

I think you mentioned bringing back The Fiend, that’s a great idea, if it aint broke, don’t fix it. Maybe he should face Lashley.

Also, don’t worry about LA Knight, I think they will have a big segment planned for him hopefully. Remember Muhammad Hassan never had a match at WM 21 either but still had his moment

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

If am honest with you, I’d be happy with either. Sami to me should have been in THE main event and now that it’s not happening, am not fussed. Am a mark for the Flair’s and I am of the view that Charlotte is arguably the greatest woman to ever do it and she has tremendous chemistry in the ring with majority of her opponents, this should be Rhea’s star making performance. But yeah I think given the heat bloodline v ko/zayn have, it might be unfair to put Flair and Rhea under so much pressure.

I think you mentioned bringing back The Fiend, that’s a great idea, if it aint broke, don’t fix it. Maybe he should face Lashley.

Also, don’t worry about LA Knight, I think they will have a big segment planned for him hopefully. Remember Muhammad Hassan never had a match at WM 21 either but still had his moment

Charlotte is a great wrestler and a great heel but as a babyface she is very meh. This feud has not done it from me. Besides that one pull apart on SD! a couple of weeks ago, the promos have been boring and the story has not been anything special either. To put this in the main-event would not only be a disservice to Owens/Zayn and The Usos but it would also be (as you said) unfair to those two, because there is no way that match is getting a reaction like the tag match. Rhea is on the precipice of being that next big female star. And it would be great to see her get that big moment at Mania. And they shouldn't be too disappointed if they go on second last.

Hopefully after this, Charlotte can go back heel. Because like Becky, who is not good at being a heel, Charlotte is just not good at being a babyface.

There are rumors that LA Knight might be in-line for a push soon. In WWE, you never quite know what that means. I'm not sure if getting your a** handed to you by a legend is exactly great. Even if its on a stage like WrestleMania. But its something.

Hey, if Stone Cold comes out and does segment with him. I actually wouldn't mind that.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] I was thinking of this the other day, and I gotta ask you guys, who is/are the most underrated wrestler(s) according to you guys?

For me its Scott Hall and Nigel McGuinness.

Scott between '94 and 97 had all the makings of a main-eventer. Beyond incredible wrestler, especially for his size with a natural mind for wrestling. And a heck of a promo too. His troubles are well-documented and its a shame he didn't reach the heights he should have reached. But some of the matches he had in WWF were special. Especially for that era, when WWF was still in its cartoonish phase. And then ofcourse he is the one who kicked off arguably the hottest angle in the history of pro-wrestling when he walked onto Nitro. So much personality...so much charisma and so good in the ring. But man, he had his demons.

McGuinness was not as successful but had as much of a part as Joe, Danielson, Punk did in flying the ROH flag in the early 2000s and making independent wrestling relevant and credible for probably the first time. The matches he had with Bryan during the early days of ROH are bonafide classics and Bryan for me has never had a better and more perfect opponent than Nigel. What's sadder is that the only reason Bryan got into WWE and he didn't was because Bryan lied about his history of concussions while Nigel told the truth. Funny how life works out sometimes.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] I was thinking of this the other day, and I gotta ask you guys, who is/are the most underrated wrestler(s) according to you guys?

For me its Scott Hall and Nigel McGuinness.

Scott between '94 and 97 had all the makings of a main-eventer. Beyond incredible wrestler, especially for his size with a natural mind for wrestling. And a heck of a promo too. His troubles are well-documented and its a shame he didn't reach the heights he should have reached. But some of the matches he had in WWF were special. Especially for that era, when WWF was still in its cartoonish phase. And then ofcourse he is the one who kicked off arguably the hottest angle in the history of pro-wrestling when he walked onto Nitro. So much personality...so much charisma and so good in the ring. But man, he had his demons.

McGuinness was not as successful but had as much of a part as Joe, Danielson, Punk did in flying the ROH flag in the early 2000s and making independent wrestling relevant and credible for probably the first time. The matches he had with Bryan during the early days of ROH are bonafide classics and Bryan for me has never had a better and more perfect opponent than Nigel. What's sadder is that the only reason Bryan got into WWE and he didn't was because Bryan lied about his history of concussions while Nigel told the truth. Funny how life works out sometimes.

I would have to go with Nigel because while Scott didn’t win the big one, he was a big deal in the WWF and WCW, he got over main stream and is a recognisable face globally. Nigel was a pioneer of the golden era of independent wrestling and he had just as big an impact as the other names you mentioned, but I will say Nigel because he never had that big run with a major NA company, if he did, I think he could have been our first world champion and certainly the most technically gifted in the ring. What he achieved shouldn’t be forgotten, just look at the state of ROH now.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

You feel bad for Lashley? I feel bad for LA Knight! He got such a massive pop in the Battle Royale tonight and the entire arena booed in unison when he was eliminated. Seriously, has anyone gotten the shorter end of the stick more than this guy? Despite being buried week after week pretty much since the beginning of that Bray feud he has found a way to get over through his promos and personality. He has so much untapped potential and its heartbreaking to see him booked like absolute s**t. And now he is likely going to get buried at Mania too in an impromptu squash match against Lashley.

Lashley, as great as he is, has a certain ceiling. He will never be a truly top caliber talent in my opinion because of his lack of ability on the mic. He has improved leaps and bounds as a wrestler post 2015. I think TNA was where he really started to improve and WWE clearly saw that which is why they brought him back. But for me, he lacks that extra something that guys like Reigns, Cody, Orton have. If I was him, I would count myself lucky to be out of that feud with Bray though.

Because let's be honest, this Bray run has been an unmitigated disaster. Lot of conflicting reports...some saying he was legitimately injured...others say he no-showed MSG because they wanted him to bring back The Fiend. One thing has been obvious though, this storyline that he has been doing since his return has been absolute garbage. It has made zero sense, it has had zero pay-off, it has gone on for an eternity and all this guy has done is come on TV and cut puzzling promos that never get to the damn point. The one time he did wrestle, we got a 5 minute squash match with rave lighting, that was primarily a commercial for Mountain Dew.

Alot of people over the years have talked about how Bray is hard to work with. And honestly, I am starting to see why. If there is any guy that needs a significant level of quality-control over him, its him. He has good ideas, but needs a filter.

Right now though I think he needs to swallow his pride and just bring back The Fiend. Atleast that was a cool gimmick that the fans loved and that the company didn't have a problem with, because of the merch sales.

There are ways you can rework that gimmick where he doesn't always have to go out there and kill his opponents. That's the best of both worlds because it allows him do his weird, confusing promos that only make sense in his own head and gives the fans that cool character that feels like something out of a horror movie.

I think LA knight might get squashed by Randy in an impromptu open challenge. But yes that guy is brilliant and the crowd loves him.

I said that way back about Bray that he gets too creative that it stops making sense. Bray basically tries to be too smart for himself. He has wrestled just one match in last 6 7 months.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] I was thinking of this the other day, and I gotta ask you guys, who is/are the most underrated wrestler(s) according to you guys?

For me its Scott Hall and Nigel McGuinness.

Scott between '94 and 97 had all the makings of a main-eventer. Beyond incredible wrestler, especially for his size with a natural mind for wrestling. And a heck of a promo too. His troubles are well-documented and its a shame he didn't reach the heights he should have reached. But some of the matches he had in WWF were special. Especially for that era, when WWF was still in its cartoonish phase. And then ofcourse he is the one who kicked off arguably the hottest angle in the history of pro-wrestling when he walked onto Nitro. So much personality...so much charisma and so good in the ring. But man, he had his demons.

McGuinness was not as successful but had as much of a part as Joe, Danielson, Punk did in flying the ROH flag in the early 2000s and making independent wrestling relevant and credible for probably the first time. The matches he had with Bryan during the early days of ROH are bonafide classics and Bryan for me has never had a better and more perfect opponent than Nigel. What's sadder is that the only reason Bryan got into WWE and he didn't was because Bryan lied about his history of concussions while Nigel told the truth. Funny how life works out sometimes.

From the top of my head, Hall, Mcguiness, RVD, Finlay, Aries, Daniels, Morrison, Ricochet

RVD yes he is highly regarded but seriously that guy was one in a million sort of guy. He had the ability to work a good match with anyone.
Aries, think if he was a good guy he might have had a much better career.
Daniels, deserved much more than just being an indie darling.
Morrison/Nitro/Mundo - no idea why wwe didn't invest in him more. He's still a complete guy.
Ricochet is going down that path as well. Think it has to do with his inability to articulate well or present himself as interesting enough. He has oodles of talent but what he does is he just vomits all his moves every single match. When talking, even in interviews, he doesn't communicate well enough or sound interesting enough.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Charlotte is a great wrestler and a great heel but as a babyface she is very meh. This feud has not done it from me. Besides that one pull apart on SD! a couple of weeks ago, the promos have been boring and the story has not been anything special either. To put this in the main-event would not only be a disservice to Owens/Zayn and The Usos but it would also be (as you said) unfair to those two, because there is no way that match is getting a reaction like the tag match. Rhea is on the precipice of being that next big female star. And it would be great to see her get that big moment at Mania. And they shouldn't be too disappointed if they go on second last.

Hopefully after this, Charlotte can go back heel. Because like Becky, who is not good at being a heel, Charlotte is just not good at being a babyface.

There are rumors that LA Knight might be in-line for a push soon. In WWE, you never quite know what that means. I'm not sure if getting your a** handed to you by a legend is exactly great. Even if its on a stage like WrestleMania. But its something.

Hey, if Stone Cold comes out and does segment with him. I actually wouldn't mind that.

I think the constant Vince's booking of having Charlotte go over and consistently being in the title pic has done irreparable damage to her character. She just doesn't seem remotely interesting to me either as a face or heel now. I've been fast forwarding her segments and matches since her return. That's how much tired I am of her. But I'd say if she lets go of her queen character and stuff and is made to do matches without storylines, she would put on wrestling clinics, that's how good she is as a wrestler. But her character is just done for me.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

If am honest with you, I’d be happy with either. Sami to me should have been in THE main event and now that it’s not happening, am not fussed. Am a mark for the Flair’s and I am of the view that Charlotte is arguably the greatest woman to ever do it and she has tremendous chemistry in the ring with majority of her opponents, this should be Rhea’s star making performance. But yeah I think given the heat bloodline v ko/zayn have, it might be unfair to put Flair and Rhea under so much pressure.

I think you mentioned bringing back The Fiend, that’s a great idea, if it aint broke, don’t fix it. Maybe he should face Lashley.

Also, don’t worry about LA Knight, I think they will have a big segment planned for him hopefully. Remember Muhammad Hassan never had a match at WM 21 either but still had his moment

LA Knight might get RKOd in an impromptu match IMO.

Think Rhea's popularity is going to the level that she'll turn face soon. Don't know how the rest of JD would look as faces.

 

[The_KING]

Wrestlemania is this weekend and I didn't even know. Shows just how much interest I have in the wrestling product at the moment.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

From the top of my head, Hall, Mcguiness, RVD, Finlay, Aries, Daniels, Morrison, Ricochet

RVD yes he is highly regarded but seriously that guy was one in a million sort of guy. He had the ability to work a good match with anyone.
Aries, think if he was a good guy he might have had a much better career.
Daniels, deserved much more than just being an indie darling.
Morrison/Nitro/Mundo - no idea why wwe didn't invest in him more. He's still a complete guy.
Ricochet is going down that path as well. Think it has to do with his inability to articulate well or present himself as interesting enough. He has oodles of talent but what he does is he just vomits all his moves every single match. When talking, even in interviews, he doesn't communicate well enough or sound interesting enough.

Big YES on Austin Aries. I would add him to my list too. His reason for not getting very far ahead might have been his attitude issues. Cornette called him a "malcontent" that was always miserable. But he was an incredible wrestler. His ROH run was excellent but his TNA run was special. 2012 was definitely the last time TNA was good for me. And a large part of that was Aries and the story they told with him reaching the top as TNA World Champion.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Just when I thought I couldn't lose any more respect for Jericho I saw him do a slow-motion spot at PWG

 

[shaz619]

Big YES on Austin Aries. I would add him to my list too. His reason for not getting very far ahead might have been his attitude issues. Cornette called him a "malcontent" that was always miserable. But he was an incredible wrestler. His ROH run was excellent but his TNA run was special. 2012 was definitely the last time TNA was good for me. And a large part of that was Aries and the story they told with him reaching the top as TNA World Champion.

Aries should never be in the under rated column, should be in the bum dosser section. He had some good all round pedigree but he is a couple of notches below ROH’s greatest and with that horrible attitude, he has himself to blame

 

[shaz619]

Night 1 thoughts without spoilers:

Absolutely enjoyed Rey v Dominik, I was half concerned Hunter would go through with his narrow booking style but thankfully, sense prevailed.

Charlotte v Rhea, my oh my, one of the greatest womens mania matches of all time and arguably the best match of the night. The physicality, intensity and authenticity were on another level between the ropes, a very psychological match, Charlotte worked her *** off here and Rhea looked a real star, these two followed Rey/Dominik so were in the dead spot on the card which is never easy but they still had an outstanding match, the selling from both was brilliant and Charlotte did her utmost to make Rhea look strong. Rhea is the next big name in the division and Charlotte P4P is one of the best workers in the world male or female. Terrific.

Main Event, the match was what you would expect, but it was all about the emotion and all delivered.

Cena/Theory - Could have been better

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

KO/Zayn vs The Usos has to main-event Night One tomorrow. It would be ridiculous if Charlotte v Ripley did. Especially considering how over this angle is. And that Ripley, who is a heel and will likely be going over in that other match.

Would be quite a feather in the cap of KO to main-event Mania two years in a row. Amazing how he hasn't been world champion in 6 years.

Agreed, and glad they did the right thing here. The main event should be the match that most want to see, the biggest draw. It always bothered me that Rock vs Hogan was not the main event at WM 18.

I have stopped watching wrestling for years, however i have been following the bloodline angle for the last few months. This was the only match on the card I was interested in. And as someone who grew up watching attidue/ruthless aggression era, I had zero interest in seeing women's title matches.

 

[Saj]

Can't believe it's 39th Wrestlemania already.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Night 1 thoughts without spoilers:

Absolutely enjoyed Rey v Dominik, I was half concerned Hunter would go through with his narrow booking style but thankfully, sense prevailed.

Charlotte v Rhea, my oh my, one of the greatest womens mania matches of all time and arguably the best match of the night. The physicality, intensity and authenticity were on another level between the ropes, a very psychological match, Charlotte worked her *** off here and Rhea looked a real star, these two followed Rey/Dominik so were in the dead spot on the card which is never easy but they still had an outstanding match, the selling from both was brilliant and Charlotte did her utmost to make Rhea look strong. Rhea is the next big name in the division and Charlotte P4P is one of the best workers in the world male or female. Terrific.

Main Event, the match was what you would expect, but it was all about the emotion and all delivered.

Cena/Theory - Could have been better

Seth Logan match was good. Should have been a bit longer.

Rey vs Dom - didn't expect it to be good but it was, Dom has improved a lot in last one year.

Charlotte Rhea was great.

Theory Cena was a bummer. A predictable result and Cena wrestled like he didn't want to be there. And Theory isn't at that level to deliver high intensity story driven matches.

Main event delivered. I thought it would be a fast paced spot match but it was actually a sticking to basics tag team match. Usos got a lot more offense than I was expecting. KO was booked much stronger than Sami.

The multi tag match could and should have gone longer. It was a spot fest but the win should have been given to someone other than Street Profits. Raiders could have for once been given a rub as a serious tag team.

They literally could have brought any other person than Pat Macafee for the Miz impromptu match. That's where Trips will never be as good as Vince. Pat is a good wrestler, but seriously, AJ, Riddle, Randy, Lashley, Nakamura etc anyone could have done better.

In comparison to last year's Mania night one, it wasn't as good. Last year Mania had an ordinary card yet was still extremely enjoyable capped off by the brilliant Austin's return to the ring.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Expecting Night 2 to be more like the old NXT Takeovers.

My predictions for Night 2

1. Triple Threat IC title match - Will kick off the show and will be about 15-20 mins. Either Walter or Sheamus will win. Walter more likely.

2. Women's tag match - will be the worst match - about 10 mins. Ronda/Shayna will win predictably.

3. Edge vs Balor - An easy 30 min match. If they don't overdo the gimmicks, it has the potential to be the match of the night. I am favoring Balor to go over.

4. Brock - Omos - A 5 min win for Brock.


5. Bianca vs Asuka - 20 min well wrestled match. Could go either way.


6. There will be an impromptu match or segment involving LA Knight possibly. Expecting a Randy or Austin return.


7. Cody vs Roman - A 30 min well wrestled match. Cody is going over. We may see a wild Goldust after the match.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Do you guys find it annoying as well? Wrestlers doing canadian destroyers to show they can "wrestle".

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Seth Logan match was good. Should have been a bit longer.

Rey vs Dom - didn't expect it to be good but it was, Dom has improved a lot in last one year.

Charlotte Rhea was great.

Theory Cena was a bummer. A predictable result and Cena wrestled like he didn't want to be there. And Theory isn't at that level to deliver high intensity story driven matches.

Main event delivered. I thought it would be a fast paced spot match but it was actually a sticking to basics tag team match. Usos got a lot more offense than I was expecting. KO was booked much stronger than Sami.

The multi tag match could and should have gone longer. It was a spot fest but the win should have been given to someone other than Street Profits. Raiders could have for once been given a rub as a serious tag team.

They literally could have brought any other person than Pat Macafee for the Miz impromptu match. That's where Trips will never be as good as Vince. Pat is a good wrestler, but seriously, AJ, Riddle, Randy, Lashley, Nakamura etc anyone could have done better.

In comparison to last year's Mania night one, it wasn't as good. Last year Mania had an ordinary card yet was still extremely enjoyable capped off by the brilliant Austin's return to the ring.

I disagree. Sami came off as a massive star here. He was booked as the ultimate underdog here and he played that role to perfection. His selling here was freakin' incredible. After this match, its hard to think of a bigger and better babyface in wrestling right now and that includes Cody. Sami is the first one to ever kick out of the Uso's finisher...he got put through the ringer multiple times when The Usos were just killing him together. But he kept surviving and coming back. Let's not forget he got the big W as well after 3 helluva kicks.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Really enjoyed this first night of WrestleMania. Multiple very good matches capped off by one of THE best Mania main-events in quite some time.

Cena v Theory sucked. Basic as s**t TV match that somehow got onto the Mania card. Cena being Cena is bulletproof. But this did not make him come across in the best light. This match was mediocre with a capital M. And it also showed me that Theory is not nearly as ready for the big time as WWE want him to be.

4 Way Spot Fest: SKIP

Logan Paul v Seth Rollins: This was a really good match. It amazes me how natural Logan Paul is at this. He is a much better wrestler and personality than some people who have been doing this for years. Not a fan of celebs wrestling but this guy is the outlier. I was left howling with laughter with that announce table spot.

Lita/Becky/Trish v Damage CTRL: SKIP

Dominick v Rey: Really enjoyed the storytelling here. Probably the best match Dom has ever wrestled. Finish made sense and it was good to see Rey get the win.

Rhea v Charlotte: This started off slow but ended up being a really good match. I was not as enamored by this as most other people though.

The main-event was probably the best Mania main-event since 30? Has to be for me. Really the perfect culmination to what has been an incredible storyline. They didn't go out there and reinvent the wheel and as a tag match it was pretty standard from a structural stand-point. But then again, they didn't need to. Because the story that elevated everything. Everything in this match meant something. And what a star-making performance for Sami Zayn.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Expecting Night 2 to be more like the old NXT Takeovers.

My predictions for Night 2

1. Triple Threat IC title match - Will kick off the show and will be about 15-20 mins. Either Walter or Sheamus will win. Walter more likely.

2. Women's tag match - will be the worst match - about 10 mins. Ronda/Shayna will win predictably.

3. Edge vs Balor - An easy 30 min match. If they don't overdo the gimmicks, it has the potential to be the match of the night. I am favoring Balor to go over.

4. Brock - Omos - A 5 min win for Brock.


5. Bianca vs Asuka - 20 min well wrestled match. Could go either way.


6. There will be an impromptu match or segment involving LA Knight possibly. Expecting a Randy or Austin return.


7. Cody vs Roman - A 30 min well wrestled match. Cody is going over. We may see a wild Goldust after the match.

I dunno if I see too many high work-rate matches on this card. The three way might fall into that category. Because you just know that all three men are going beat the absolute tar out of each other. But besides that, I am only looking forward to the main-event.

Big Edge fan but his current run has fallen by the wayside for me. He has not been interesting in a very long time. Not even his promos feel interesting anymore. This Judgment Day stuff has bored me to death and at this point I just want them to get it over with so Edge can move on to something else. Anything but this.

The main-event should be great. But I would really appreciate it if they kept their signature gaga to a minimum. Primarily, ref bumps that last an eternity and run-ins that are as predictable as they are played out. I'm saying this because these things seem to be a common theme in WWE main-event matches and Roman Reigns main-event matches. And honestly, at this point I would just like to see something different.

I can even look past one run-in. But if every member of the Bloodline comes out to take a shot at Cody as the ref is lying in a coma after being gently pushed into the soft, padded turnbuckle than that's bulls**t.

Honestly, if the main-event delivers and the 3 Way ends up being a great wrestling match, I would be more than happy with this year's Mania.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Really enjoyed this first night of WrestleMania. Multiple very good matches capped off by one of THE best Mania main-events in quite some time.

Cena v Theory sucked. Basic as s**t TV match that somehow got onto the Mania card. Cena being Cena is bulletproof. But this did not make him come across in the best light. This match was mediocre with a capital M. And it also showed me that Theory is not nearly as ready for the big time as WWE want him to be.

4 Way Spot Fest: SKIP

Logan Paul v Seth Rollins: This was a really good match. It amazes me how natural Logan Paul is at this. He is a much better wrestler and personality than some people who have been doing this for years. Not a fan of celebs wrestling but this guy is the outlier. I was left howling with laughter with that announce table spot.

Lita/Becky/Trish v Damage CTRL: SKIP

Dominick v Rey: Really enjoyed the storytelling here. Probably the best match Dom has ever wrestled. Finish made sense and it was good to see Rey get the win.

Rhea v Charlotte: This started off slow but ended up being a really good match. I was not as enamored by this as most other people though.

The main-event was probably the best Mania main-event since 30? Has to be for me. Really the perfect culmination to what has been an incredible storyline. They didn't go out there and reinvent the wheel and as a tag match it was pretty standard from a structural stand-point. But then again, they didn't need to. Because the story that elevated everything. Everything in this match meant something. And what a star-making performance for Sami Zayn.

Mania 2021 had a better main event - Roman vs Bryan vs Edge. That match was the definitive stamp that Roman was going to be the champion for a long long time.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I dunno if I see too many high work-rate matches on this card. The three way might fall into that category. Because you just know that all three men are going beat the absolute tar out of each other. But besides that, I am only looking forward to the main-event.

Big Edge fan but his current run has fallen by the wayside for me. He has not been interesting in a very long time. Not even his promos feel interesting anymore. This Judgment Day stuff has bored me to death and at this point I just want them to get it over with so Edge can move on to something else. Anything but this.

The main-event should be great. But I would really appreciate it if they kept their signature gaga to a minimum. Primarily, ref bumps that last an eternity and run-ins that are as predictable as they are played out. I'm saying this because these things seem to be a common theme in WWE main-event matches and Roman Reigns main-event matches. And honestly, at this point I would just like to see something different.

I can even look past one run-in. But if every member of the Bloodline comes out to take a shot at Cody as the ref is lying in a coma after being gently pushed into the soft, padded turnbuckle than that's bulls**t.

Honestly, if the main-event delivers and the 3 Way ends up being a great wrestling match, I would be more than happy with this year's Mania.

Don't know about Usos but Solo will probably try to interfere. And Trips will go all Gargano here, Cody will overcome multiple interferences and finishers to win.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Do you guys find it annoying as well? Wrestlers doing canadian destroyers to show they can "wrestle".

I like the move. But when someone does it off a ladder into a tower of tables and ends up turning the other guy's ankle around like a piece of Play Doh than that's concerning to me.

But then again, this is the kind of environment that Tony Khan has created. Where wrestlers are allowed to go out there and just do whatever they like. First it was just AEW but now I guess ROH is going to be a live car crash every time too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Mania 2021 had a better main event - Roman vs Bryan vs Edge. That match was the definitive stamp that Roman was going to be the champion for a long long time.

It was a good match but the finish was rotten from a big show stand-point. Where the aim should always be to send the fans home happy. Having the top heel beat two of the top babyfaces by stacking one top of the other wasn't exactly the happiest of endings.

 

[shaz619]

I like the move. But when someone does it off a ladder into a tower of tables and ends up turning the other guy's ankle around like a piece of Play Doh than that's concerning to me.

But then again, this is the kind of environment that Tony Khan has created. Where wrestlers are allowed to go out there and just do whatever they like. First it was just AEW but now I guess ROH is going to be a live car crash every time too.

That cracked me up ) it’s sad but just funny now, a norm for the company

 

[shaz619]

Do you guys find it annoying as well? Wrestlers doing canadian destroyers to show they can "wrestle".

It’s overused outside the WWE, not too much off a put off when someone like Rey does it.

I hate how the super kick is used though

 

[shaz619]

Can't believe it's 39th Wrestlemania already.

Life moves fast. WWE is in advanced talks now for a sale with the company which owns the UFC

 

[shaz619]

Cena didn’t even get to hit his finisher, I’d be so mad in the crowd. The two were capable of way better, whoever produced that should be ashamed.

Cena is a real pro, he doesn’t need to do this and was working with some ring rust to and it showed a little but this could have been way better.

It was more of a smackdown main event rather than PPV worthy, they would have got more out of if getting some attention on Theory was concerned, rather than wasting a spot on the card and Cena.

 

[shaz619]

Sami Zayn becomes the first Muslim to main event Wrestlemania and that too in the month of Ramadan [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] - Biggest question, are 3MB coming together for Wrestlemania Night 2

 

[The_KING]

Do you guys find it annoying as well? Wrestlers doing canadian destroyers to show they can "wrestle".

I remember back in the day when Petey Williams used to use it in TNA and it looked so freaking cool. Now everyone uses it and as a result, it has lost its wow factor.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I like the move. But when someone does it off a ladder into a tower of tables and ends up turning the other guy's ankle around like a piece of Play Doh than that's concerning to me.

But then again, this is the kind of environment that Tony Khan has created. Where wrestlers are allowed to go out there and just do whatever they like. First it was just AEW but now I guess ROH is going to be a live car crash every time too.

Not just in AEW, but NXT youngbees have also been doing it for 2-3 years now. And it's standard thing in indies too. Even celebs in WWE do it now to prove they are "wrestling" - Pat McAfee, Bad Bunny, Logan Paul etc.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It’s overused outside the WWE, not too much off a put off when someone like Rey does it.

I hate how the super kick is used though

It's completely good for a finisher or as a signature move. But doing it 10 times in a match becomes cringe. Saw a clip of NXT Stand and Deliver and newbie women wrestlers were doing it one by one in a match probs trying to tell the hardcores that they can wrestle. looked so stupid.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I remember back in the day when Petey Williams used to use it in TNA and it looked so freaking cool. Now everyone uses it and as a result, it has lost its wow factor.

Yes, same thing happened with top rope elbow drop and super kick and happening to frog splash now.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Cena didn’t even get to hit his finisher, I’d be so mad in the crowd. The two were capable of way better, whoever produced that should be ashamed.

Cena is a real pro, he doesn’t need to do this and was working with some ring rust to and it showed a little but this could have been way better.

It was more of a smackdown main event rather than PPV worthy, they would have got more out of if getting some attention on Theory was concerned, rather than wasting a spot on the card and Cena.

Getting a feeling Cena didn't want the match, was either convinced into doing it or he doesn't really believe in Theory yet.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Sami Zayn becomes the first Muslim to main event Wrestlemania and that too in the month of Ramadan [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

Totally forgot that. Really great achievement. Also considering Sami is a practicing Muslim.

 

[The_KING]

Yes, same thing happened with top rope elbow drop and super kick and happening to frog splash now.

Wrestling has become a movefest in modern times. Wrestlers do these high impact moves to get a reaction from the crowd, instead of telling a good story in the ring.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] - Biggest question, are 3MB coming together for Wrestlemania Night 2

I'll try to enjoy this. But I've really lost interest on PP thankfully to one single empty headed pos guy on PP. I am really just visiting this wrestling thread here only.

 

[The_KING]

Big Edge fan but his current run has fallen by the wayside for me. He has not been interesting in a very long time. Not even his promos feel interesting anymore. This Judgment Day stuff has bored me to death and at this point I just want them to get it over with so Edge can move on to something else. Anything but this.

Completely agree. Edge's current run has been very underwhelming.

Edge doesn't work as a face for me. Edge only really truly got over as a singles star when he turned heel in 2005. His heel run from 2005-10 as the ultimate opportunist was truly magnificent. But I suspect that he is probably too popular now to work as a heel.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Completely agree. Edge's current run has been very underwhelming.

Edge doesn't work as a face for me. Edge only really truly got over as a singles star when he turned heel in 2005. His heel run from 2005-10 as the ultimate opportunist was truly magnificent. But I suspect that he is probably too popular now to work as a heel.

Think we'll see a magnificent match today of Balor vs Edge. The storyline and feud has been awful and way too long. But think the match can exist today in isolation. Let's see.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Wrestling has become a movefest in modern times. Wrestlers do these high impact moves to get a reaction from the crowd, instead of telling a good story in the ring.

They do it because they are unable to win the crowd the good old way - by connecting with them.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

What a meatslapping triple threat. All 3 - Walter, Drew and Sheamus would need some good ice packing over their chest today.

Another thing - Jericho's view that it's either the first match on the card or the last one on Mania that matters. The others in between don't count - totally being proven wrong here.

 

[The_KING]

Think we'll see a magnificent match today of Balor vs Edge. The storyline and feud has been awful and way too long. But think the match can exist today in isolation. Let's see.

Hopefully. I have high expectations from the match, so hopefully it delivers.

They do it because they are unable to win the crowd the good old way - by connecting with them.

Exactly. Most wrestlers today don't have compelling characters and they lack the ability to tell a story during a match in order to connect with the audience, so they do these WOW moves like the Canadian Destroyer to get a cheap pop from the crowd.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Can't believe Roman still won. Think they're going for 1000 days. But what a main event.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] - Biggest question, are 3MB coming together for Wrestlemania Night 2

Trips screwed Cody.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Right decision to have Roman retain for a few reasons.
1 - KO and Sami won yesterday. Bloodline should not lose both belts on the same show. They are the main attraction right now in WWE.
2 - Cody needs more time to be built up as a top guy. Dont think he had done enough to show he deserves to end Roman's run. At least not now. Maybe by Summerslam.
3 - Roman is close to 1,000 days as champ. This will not happen again anytime soon, so makes sense to let him get there.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The funniest thing about this Mania was Shane O mac busting out his knee completely within 60 seconds of his match. Snoop Dogg felt so much better as his opponent.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

WWE should also consider splitting the titles again. Maybe have Roman drop the WWE title, and keep the Universal belt. Could have a ladder match tomorrow night on Raw. Have Cody grab one belt and Roman the other, and voila the belts are split.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Right decision to have Roman retain for a few reasons.
1 - KO and Sami won yesterday. Bloodline should not lose both belts on the same show. They are the main attraction right now in WWE.
2 - Cody needs more time to be built up as a top guy. Dont think he had done enough to show he deserves to end Roman's run. At least not now. Maybe by Summerslam.
3 - Roman is close to 1,000 days as champ. This will not happen again anytime soon, so makes sense to let him get there.

Yes 1000 day run ain't happening if Roman doesn't get there.
But sucks to be Cody really here.

Think there's only two logical guys left: Either Seth or a red hot Randy Orton.

Also think they're calling up Bron Breakker to the main roster. But that guy is too green to be anywhere near Roman.

I'd like for Jey to be the one to win it as he was the one at the start of the run.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

WWE should also consider splitting the titles again. Maybe have Roman drop the WWE title, and keep the Universal belt. Could have a ladder match tomorrow night on Raw. Have Cody grab one belt and Roman the other, and voila the belts are split.

Roman has limited dates in his contract. So don't think he'll go on and wrestle another match just tomorrow.

Should wait till magic happens and whosoever happens to be the person then should beat him regardless of the PPV name.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Yes 1000 day run ain't happening if Roman doesn't get there.
But sucks to be Cody really here.

Think there's only two logical guys left: Either Seth or a red hot Randy Orton.

Also think they're calling up Bron Breakker to the main roster. But that guy is too green to be anywhere near Roman.

I'd like for Jey to be the one to win it as he was the one at the start of the run.

He got to main even WrestleMania. And win the Rumble. Many champs have not done either of those two things.

Also Roman's run is now getting to the point where its like the Streak. Just wrestling him for the belt is a big deal, and its not like you are buried if you lose.

And the one who ends his run will be getting a massive push. I think Cody, or Jey Uso should be the one to do it.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

He got to main even WrestleMania. And win the Rumble. Many champs have not done either of those two things.

Also Roman's run is now getting to the point where its like the Streak. Just wrestling him for the belt is a big deal, and its not like you are buried if you lose.

And the one who ends his run will be getting a massive push. I think Cody, or Jey Uso should be the one to do it.

Nah Streak was built through clean victories (majority of). Roman uses the help of Usos and Solo every time a tough guy steps up. So it's not really the same. Why not Drew? Roman didn't beat him clean at the Castle.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

He got to main even WrestleMania. And win the Rumble. Many champs have not done either of those two things.

Also Roman's run is now getting to the point where its like the Streak. Just wrestling him for the belt is a big deal, and its not like you are buried if you lose.

And the one who ends his run will be getting a massive push. I think Cody, or Jey Uso should be the one to do it.

I think Roman will feud with Lashley and then the one who he will actually lose to.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Balor was cut open very bad. Think they shortened the match cause of that. Edge winning didn't really make any sense.

 

[daytrader]

WWE Close To Be Sold. And The Potential Buyer Is...
Endeavor shareholders are slated to own 51 per cent of the combat and entertainment company, while WWE shareholders would get 49 per cent.

Vince McMahon's World Wrestling Entertainment is close to being sold to Ari Emanuel's Endeavor Group, the parent company of UFC, the New York Post reported.
People familiar with the matter told Reuters that Endeavor is all set to acquire WWE in an all-stock deal. The sources requested anonymity because the matter is confidential. The deal can be announced as early as this week.

Endeavor shareholders are slated to own 51 per cent of the combat and entertainment company, while WWE shareholders would get 49 per cent, the sources told CNBC.

WWE shares, which have risen more than 30 per cent this year, closed at $91.26 on Friday, giving the company a market capitalization of $6.8 billion. Endeavor has a market value of $11.3 billion, Reuters reported.

Led by Hollywood power broker Ari Emanuel, Emanuel has worked to transform Endeavor into a sports and entertainment powerhouse, making more than 20 acquisitions. His investments - in bull riding events, fashion shows and the Miami Open and Madrid Open tennis competitions - sought to diversify the company, which grew from a legacy rooted in representing film and television talent.

Endeavor took a majority holding in the Ultimate Fighting Championship, the world's largest martial arts organization, in 2016, in a $4.2 billion deal, and acquired the remaining stake in the company along with its IPO five years later.

...
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/wwe...l-buyer-is-3915283#pfrom=home-ndtv_topstories

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Trips screwed Cody.

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] called it months ago. And I was like even Trips is not stupid enough to mess this up. How wrong I was. This was far worse than any of the main-events we got when Roman was a babyface. From 31-34.

Roman's reign has go-away heat from me now. It has gone past H's reign of terror in terms of pure boredom. This was the perfect opportunity to put a cap on it. But for whatever reason, they decided to bury yet another top babyface 6 feet under.

I guess only Bruno Sammartino coming back from the dead can end his run now.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Completely agree. Edge's current run has been very underwhelming.

Edge doesn't work as a face for me. Edge only really truly got over as a singles star when he turned heel in 2005. His heel run from 2005-10 as the ultimate opportunist was truly magnificent. But I suspect that he is probably too popular now to work as a heel.

Edge has the ability to be a great babyface too. The problem is that he feels like he spouting scripted verbiage that someone wrote down for him. It doesn't feel real. If you look at his feud with Orton when he returned in 2020, there was some great and very real stuff in the build-up to their WrestleMania match. But since over a year now, everything Edge has been involved in has been uninteresting. He also seems to have this idea of shoehorning his wife into alot of stuff, which doesn't help.

Yeah, he's popular but for a guy like Edge it isn't hard to turn the crowd on him. He's a special heel and needs to go back to being one. Because whatever this is, isn't working. And its not like this run will last forever.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Balor was cut open very bad. Think they shortened the match cause of that. Edge winning didn't really make any sense.

I thought it was the only thing about that match that did make sense. Because the heels had been getting one over on Edge for close to a year now. They must have injured him atleast 10 times in kayfabe since last year. Balor even got the W in their 'I Quit Match' too. In the blow-off match on the big show, it made sense for the babyface to win.

The match was quite mediocre for me. I don't know why they need the Hell In A Cell cage if they were just going to go in there and beat each other with a bunch of weapons and furniture.

Credit to Balor though for braving through that nasty gash and finishing the match.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What a meatslapping triple threat. All 3 - Walter, Drew and Sheamus would need some good ice packing over their chest today.

Another thing - Jericho's view that it's either the first match on the card or the last one on Mania that matters. The others in between don't count - totally being proven wrong here.

I think Jericho's point was more that when you have a good match on your hands it should either open the show or close the show. Because the beginning and end are two aspects of the show that can have the biggest impact on the fans. A good open will get them psyched for the show to come and a good main-event will send them home happy. And to be fair he's not wrong. This match should have opened the show. My guess is that Brock wanted to jump back onto his private jet asap and ensured that he was going on first.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He got to main even WrestleMania. And win the Rumble. Many champs have not done either of those two things.

Also Roman's run is now getting to the point where its like the Streak. Just wrestling him for the belt is a big deal, and its not like you are buried if you lose.

And the one who ends his run will be getting a massive push. I think Cody, or Jey Uso should be the one to do it.

Tbh, I don't see how Cody could have been buried any deeper coming out of this match. For all this build-up, he needed to win at the big show. Now even if he does win, it won't mean the same. Momentum and timing are everything in wrestling. And maybe I'm wrong, but for me WWE missed the boat with both last night.

Suddenly, HHH's reign of terror doesn't feel so bad...

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] called it months ago. And I was like even Trips is not stupid enough to mess this up. How wrong I was. This was far worse than any of the main-events we got when Roman was a babyface. From 31-34.

Roman's reign has go-away heat from me now. It has gone past H's reign of terror in terms of pure boredom. This was the perfect opportunity to put a cap on it. But for whatever reason, they decided to bury yet another top babyface 6 feet under.

I guess only Bruno Sammartino coming back from the dead can end his run now.

Let me just assume this wasn’t for personal reasons on Trips side. If we’re being honest, your reaction and that of others, is precisely why we may have a justification for Reigns going over.

People love Cody, he’s the guy who is awaiting to be anointed the new King. But this Wrestlemania has always been about Sami Zayn, there is no where near as much heat for a Cody world title win compared to Zayn. When Sami was not going over and they got that out of our system, there was a real good chance Reigns would retain. Ideally we want to be in a similar position with Cody where fans are desperate for him to win, here he goes over, there’s no adversity he’d have overcome; unbeaten in his comeback so far, just won the RR and say just heads to mania and beats Reigns motivated by a flat story, I don’t know if even Cena had that treatment. 1st world title attempts rarely get the red carpet, think HBK, Taker, Flair, Punk, Bryan, there are probably others.

There is more heat in the chase for the face and especially when there’s a better arc, I am sure they can create something more compelling than finishing ‘his story’. I’ve spoken to casuals who just didn’t get it or his shtick, but this match was outstanding and I think Cody will get more over with the loss even with the non-smark fans.

Breaking the 1k barrier for Reigns is a big milestone but personally, I feel if this wasn’t done for personal reasons (hope I am not wrong) and more creative with the idea that Cody would pick up the titles at a later date, am on board for it. If this was done to pander to Hunter’s ego, and very little plans beyond this for Cody in terms of dethroning Roman for the belts, then I disagree with this.

Reigns run thus far, match quality and story telling has been outstanding and they can stretch this for me if they play their cards right. Nothing will ever compare to how pathetic the reign of terror was, each of these guys who work with Reigns come out elevated at least unlike what Hunter did and Reigns is vastly superior in his peak then Hunter ever was given his ring generalship

 

[shaz619]

I think Jericho's point was more that when you have a good match on your hands it should either open the show or close the show. Because the beginning and end are two aspects of the show that can have the biggest impact on the fans. A good open will get them psyched for the show to come and a good main-event will send them home happy. And to be fair he's not wrong. This match should have opened the show. My guess is that Brock wanted to jump back onto his private jet asap and ensured that he was going on first.

Maybe but I don’t think it was a bad choice. I stayed up for the hour or so and got to see that match and the triple threat so was delighted before going to bed lol With Jericho, his point was that his feud all the heat, so to be relegated, was disappointing. If we look at heat and Jericho’s point, then the HIAC match should have opened really.

When you look back, you remember moments and Lesnar F5’ing Omos will come to mind, he’s a freak who can still make you suspend your disbelief with his athleticism and believability given his outstanding selling, it was a fun little scrap.

The triple threat was thrilling and very creative, they all just went out there, threw the script out the window and the beat the hell out of each other, more of that please and fewer spots

 

[shaz619]

Edge/Balor take a bow, great blow off gimmick match.

Edge is taken for granted, he is putting on fantastic matches despite his age and size, putting everything on the line. He wont be around for long but this run has been outstanding especially in the ring, when did he last have a bad PPV match? the guy gives you your monies worth and values the story

 

[shaz619]

Balor was cut open very bad. Think they shortened the match cause of that. Edge winning didn't really make any sense.

It’s wrestlemania, the judgement day have been causing the faces trouble for a while, it made sense for the face to triumph. I was scared Rey would also lose for the sake of giving the ‘rub’ to a youngster, that’s fine, but you do it when it makes sense, Hunter generally is not understanding of this concept but for mania, it wasn’t much of an issue

 

[The_KING]

Reigns run thus far, match quality and story telling has been outstanding and they can stretch this for me if they play their cards right. Nothing will ever compare to how pathetic the reign of terror was, each of these guys who work with Reigns come out elevated at least unlike what Hunter did and Reigns is vastly superior in his peak then Hunter ever was given his ring generalship

Reign of terror wasn’t even that bad. It produced a great faction in Evolution, which created two of the biggest stars in Orton and Batista.

People want to hate on Triple H for always burying talent when their favourites buried talent as well.

Triple H put over a lot of guys. The guy has a losing record at wrestlemania but because he beat Booker T at wrestlemania, people still cry about it.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Let me just assume this wasn’t for personal reasons on Trips side. If we’re being honest, your reaction and that of others, is precisely why we may have a justification for Reigns going over.

People love Cody, he’s the guy who is awaiting to be anointed the new King. But this Wrestlemania has always been about Sami Zayn, there is no where near as much heat for a Cody world title win compared to Zayn. When Sami was not going over and they got that out of our system, there was a real good chance Reigns would retain. Ideally we want to be in a similar position with Cody where fans are desperate for him to win, here he goes over, there’s no adversity he’d have overcome; unbeaten in his comeback so far, just won the RR and say just heads to mania and beats Reigns motivated by a flat story, I don’t know if even Cena had that treatment. 1st world title attempts rarely get the red carpet, think HBK, Taker, Flair, Punk, Bryan, there are probably others.

There is more heat in the chase for the face and especially when there’s a better arc, I am sure they can create something more compelling than finishing ‘his story’. I’ve spoken to casuals who just didn’t get it or his shtick, but this match was outstanding and I think Cody will get more over with the loss even with the non-smark fans.

Breaking the 1k barrier for Reigns is a big milestone but personally, I feel if this wasn’t done for personal reasons (hope I am not wrong) and more creative with the idea that Cody would pick up the titles at a later date, am on board for it. If this was done to pander to Hunter’s ego, and very little plans beyond this for Cody in terms of dethroning Roman for the belts, then I disagree with this.

Reigns run thus far, match quality and story telling has been outstanding and they can stretch this for me if they play their cards right. Nothing will ever compare to how pathetic the reign of terror was, each of these guys who work with Reigns come out elevated at least unlike what Hunter did and Reigns is vastly superior in his peak then Hunter ever was given his ring generalship

I dunno man. I think sometimes when something feels like the logical thing to do, you should probably do it. Will HHH even be in-charge of creative tomorrow? WWE is owned by Endeavor now with Vince supposedly back as head of creative. Whose to say what he will do now? I get you point about the thrill of the chase. But I feel that Cody coming back from that injury and winning the Rumble was already a pretty good story about adversity. And we also have to keep in mind the fact that this Reigns run has reached its expiration date. This was the place to put the cap on it. SummerSlam or a year from now, will not have the same feeling. Maybe I'm wrong...we'll see. But I felt they dropped the ball big-time last night. Year after year we have been seeing Reigns leaving Mania as champion. This was the place to end that historic reign and create a new top babyface. But oh well...

 

[shaz619]

I dunno man. I think sometimes when something feels like the logical thing to do, you should probably do it. Will HHH even be in-charge of creative tomorrow? WWE is owned by Endeavor now with Vince supposedly back as head of creative. Whose to say what he will do now? I get you point about the thrill of the chase. But I feel that Cody coming back from that injury and winning the Rumble was already a pretty good story about adversity. And we also have to keep in mind the fact that this Reigns run has reached its expiration date. This was the place to put the cap on it. SummerSlam or a year from now, will not have the same feeling. Maybe I'm wrong...we'll see. But I felt they dropped the ball big-time last night. Year after year we have been seeing Reigns leaving Mania as champion. This was the place to end that historic reign and create a new top babyface. But oh well...

I have my view but I totally get yours was just thinking about it. You strike when the iron is hot, while the story could and emotion could have been bigger, there was decent heat last night, who’s to say it will be better months from now? it could be if things are executed well, but there are no guarantees. For me and you the story was decent, but majority of the fanbase have short memories in this era, they need constant investment, and the fact that Cody still had the fans despite that, shows you he is super over. It’s all about the follow up whether this booking decision was justified, could the sale of the company have played a part? am not sure, there are multiple things at play.

Wow. End of an Era. Once upon a time Vince could have bought the UFC, the reverse (sort off) has occurred. For what it’s worth Endeavour are better than Disney from a take over POV for us fans (hopefully)

 

[shaz619]

Reign of terror wasn’t even that bad. It produced a great faction in Evolution, which created two of the biggest stars in Orton and Batista.

People want to hate on Triple H for always burying talent when their favourites buried talent as well.

Triple H put over a lot of guys. The guy has a losing record at wrestlemania but because he beat Booker T at wrestlemania, people still cry about it.

Evolution was good but it over stayed its welcome. Beating guys was one thing, but they never quiet recovered, what didn’t help was Hunter’s mediocre ring work and promos, he used vastly superior workers to prolong his run. I give him credit for Batista and Benoit, he did more harm than good beyond that

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Reign of terror wasn’t even that bad. It produced a great faction in Evolution, which created two of the biggest stars in Orton and Batista.

People want to hate on Triple H for always burying talent when their favourites buried talent as well.

Triple H put over a lot of guys. The guy has a losing record at wrestlemania but because he beat Booker T at wrestlemania, people still cry about it.

I enjoyed that run but I have to agree with shaz that ultimately it did more harm than good. Take out Batista and Benoit, and you have that egregious Booker T where he was a complete racist in kayfabe and still went over at Mania. He basically buried the entirety of WCW's roster that came back to WWE, which seemed pretty deliberate. And he badly bumbled Randy Orton's first big push. There are also a plethora of never-ending 20 minute promos to start off RAW in-between all that and indulgent, snail-paced PPV main-events.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I have my view but I totally get yours was just thinking about it. You strike when the iron is hot, while the story could and emotion could have been bigger, there was decent heat last night, who’s to say it will be better months from now? it could be if things are executed well, but there are no guarantees. For me and you the story was decent, but majority of the fanbase have short memories in this era, they need constant investment, and the fact that Cody still had the fans despite that, shows you he is super over. It’s all about the follow up whether this booking decision was justified, could the sale of the company have played a part? am not sure, there are multiple things at play.

Wow. End of an Era. Once upon a time Vince could have bought the UFC, the reverse (sort off) has occurred. For what it’s worth Endeavour are better than Disney from a take over POV for us fans (hopefully)

The idea of Vince coming back scares me because he might not have the same story in mind as these people do. Also feel that the idea of pulling swerves is incredibly played out at this point. And this felt alot like a swerve for the sake of doing a swerve.

Haha yeah. You know as much of an embarrassment as Shane has become in his last two on-screen appearances, he had a pretty good mind and was ahead of his time when you think about some of his ideas over the years. He was actually the first one who pushed Vince to buy UFC. And that was all the way back in 2000. He also thought that ECW could be repackaged as a violent streaming show that retained the best aspects of what the original fanbase liked. Instead ofcourse we got the ill-fated third brand. And we all know how that turned out.

Its unfortunate that Vince never seemed to have enough trust in Shane. I always thought that he had a much better acumen for the business than his sister.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Any of you guys ever watched the TV show Entourage? Its so funny to me that Ari from that show is now the CEO of WWE

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The Three Way IC match was probably my favorite wrestling match of this weekend. Shane coming back to die on live TV was probably the funniest moment. And KO/Zayn was the highlight moment. All in all, a pretty hit and miss Mania for me. Did not end up being as good as I hoped. And a large part of that was Cody-Reigns.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Sami Zayn becomes the first Muslim to main event Wrestlemania and that too in the month of Ramadan [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

Ah, a Syrian brother. Amazing people. He doesnt seem the biggest WWE star or perhaps Im still stuck in the Andre the Giant era.

Btw did you watch the Undertaker on the Mike Tyson Podcast? One of the best podcasts. Used to be scared of him as kid but in real life seems a wonderful human being.