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The Wrestling Discussion Thread

RedwoodOriginal said:
I'm sure it was fun for him but for me that doesn't justify the amount of damage it did to WWE's business. It literally killed WWE's biggest boom period and impacted everything from merch to tickets to ratings. On top of that, him siding with Vince made no sense at all character-wise. And then to do it in Texas...just felt like a swerve for the sake of doing a swerve. For me, its probably one of the worst booking decisions in the history of wrestling.

I will say this about Cody, he needs to evolve. He can't keep coming out and asking people "what do you wanna talk about?"...and then cut this wordy promo that always ends the same way. I'm not saying don't speak eloquently or don't be yourself but just don't get caught in that trap where your promos start sounding repetitive and stale because structurally they are always the same. I'm not saying that he is there but he should learn from the past. Because that for me was a big problem with Cena. The only thing about him that changed between 2007 and 2015 were the colors of his t-shirts.

A Cody heel turn should only happen when he has established himself as the ultimate top babyface in WWE and resentment has started bubbling underneath the surface among fans, but they haven't turned against him just yet. Timing is so critical in wrestling, and when something shocks you and makes sense, there's nothing like it.
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I don’t think it’s anywhere close to being the worst, that’s the territory of a company going under or just being a corpse, I agree in Texas the turn was done but overall with the business, they were not as reliant on him with the emergence of other stars especially The Rock reaching a similar level of stardom and the writing was on the wall with his injuries unfortunately. There’s a lot of talent during that period which could have been used better and they had to transition to a new era, a period which which I personally found more engaging as a fan.

Cena’s promo ability was on another level though, he really knew how to work a crowd. Cody’s ceiling is a little lower in that regard which is why he will need the right dance partners, but I haven’t personally felt dissapointed massively so far as it is all so fresh but we’re in a period where every letter will be critiqued and his fans should remember he was never an elite promo, but a guy you look at as a package and there’s scope there.

Yeah don’t think it should happen next week, certainly need to get the most out of his face run for now
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I think Taker v Batista is pretty highly rated. It was most people's best or second best match of the night. I'd probably say the same for Austin v Rock, which as comfortably the third best match of the night and generally a highly rated match by most.

Sami Zayn v Johnny Knoxville is a weird one. On one hand, I can't deny that it makes the business look like a joke. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever laughed harder while watching a wrestling match. It was so funny. It's amazing how talented Sami Zayn is.
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I forgot to mention that match and honestly Taker / Batista is one of the most underrated matches in WM history. NOBODY expected it to be that good, I was so shocked that Batista could go from 1st to 6th gear like that, it’s arguably the best match of his career because he delivered with a big name on the show of shows. And after I agree it got plaudits but am putting it underrated territory due to the negativity around it and how both just slapped everyone in the face
 
shaz619 said:
I don’t think it’s anywhere close to being the worst, that’s the territory of a company going under or just being a corpse, I agree in Texas the turn was done but overall with the business, they were not as reliant on him with the emergence of other stars especially The Rock reaching a similar level of stardom and the writing was on the wall with his injuries unfortunately. There’s a lot of talent during that period which could have been used better and they had to transition to a new era, a period which which I personally found more engaging as a fan.

Cena’s promo ability was on another level though, he really knew how to work a crowd. Cody’s ceiling is a little lower in that regard which is why he will need the right dance partners, but I haven’t personally felt dissapointed massively so far as it is all so fresh but we’re in a period where every letter will be critiqued and his fans should remember he was never an elite promo, but a guy you look at as a package and there’s scope there.

Yeah don’t think it should happen next week, certainly need to get the most out of his face run for now
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The reason I see it as one of the worst booking decisions is because very few companies in history have reached the heights that WWE reached in 2001. And then to shoot yourself in the foot like that, was quite foolish especially because what happened was a very obvious risk that should have been considered more deeply. And I blame Austin more for it because he is the one who wanted to do it and Vince wasn't gonna say no.

He career was nearing its end but he easily had another 1-2 years at the top. If things had been handled well and everything had gone smoothly we could have even gotten the proverbial passing of the torch as well with him losing to Brock at WrestleMania. Vince ofcourse has alot of blame of his head as well for the way he handled Austin's last few years.

It was. Cena was a talented promo and could connect with the audience more naturally. But man, when I think of Cena during that period...barring certain matches and feuds, it was awful to watch.
 
shaz619 said:
I forgot to mention that match and honestly Taker / Batista is one of the most underrated matches in WM history. NOBODY expected it to be that good, I was so shocked that Batista could go from 1st to 6th gear like that, it’s arguably the best match of his career because he delivered with a big name on the show of shows. And after I agree it got plaudits but am putting it underrated territory due to the negativity around it and how both just slapped everyone in the face
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It was my favorite match from that WrestleMania and easily one of Batista's best matches. The only thing that I was disappointed by was why it didn't main-event WrestleMania. Especially when Taker and Shawn were the final two in the Royal Rumble and Taker won. And then Shawn was main-eventing Mania lol.

I didn't follow wrestling on the internet much back then but I remember reading years later that Abyss was originally supposed to be Taker's opponent at WrestleMania that year. WWE even offered him a contract with an understanding that he would be wrestling Taker at Mania. But Abyss didn't jump ship out of loyalty to TNA. We got Batista v Taker so we shouldn't be too disappointed but part of me wonders what that feud and Abyss in WWE would have looked like. Because I always thought he was a really underrated big man with a pretty cool gimmick. He was a good brawler who knew how to work. Had a bit of Foley and Boss Man in him too.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
I don't mind his presence at all. I actually prefer him doing promos and being on WWE tv than watching majority of stuff that's on there. If you'd ask me to pick between Lashley, Karrion Kross, Bron Breakker's squash matches, Austin Theory etc, I'll always pick The Rock.
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I know its easy to say that now, but everything gets old. If Rock was on TV every week, believe me all this would get very old, very quick. For one thing, there has to be a reason for him to be there. He's a millionaire movie star who also has a seat on the BoD of WWE. Why is he on TV every week? Does he need the money or the TV time? Second off, there has to be heat. Who can The Rock get heat on right now besides Cody Rhodes and Roman? And they don't seem to be in a rush to do either of those matches.

Second off, prioritizing someone like The Rock over young talent is just not very smart. Bringing him in before WrestleMania or even 2-3 other PPVs throughout the year that's different. That's the best way to use him infact. But you can't go with this strategy of completely side-lining younger guys over part-timers who can't even wrestle more than twice a year. Because 5 to 10 years from now, The Rock won't be there. But someone Bron Breakker probably will. You may not care for Breakker now, but who's to say what you might think of him after one year of strong booking on the main-roster. None of that happens ofcourse without that consistent TV time and being booked strongly. Creating new stars is the lifeblood of this business and I think that is always where the main focus of the people running the show should be.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
The reason I see it as one of the worst booking decisions is because very few companies in history have reached the heights that WWE reached in 2001. And then to shoot yourself in the foot like that, was quite foolish especially because what happened was a very obvious risk that should have been considered more deeply. And I blame Austin more for it because he is the one who wanted to do it and Vince wasn't gonna say no.

He career was nearing its end but he easily had another 1-2 years at the top. If things had been handled well and everything had gone smoothly we could have even gotten the proverbial passing of the torch as well with him losing to Brock at WrestleMania. Vince ofcourse has alot of blame of his head as well for the way he handled Austin's last few years.

It was. Cena was a talented promo and could connect with the audience more naturally. But man, when I think of Cena during that period...barring certain matches and feuds, it was awful to watch.
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That sounds more like a WCW really, I never looked at his turn in that way, they were never going to be impacted in a major way, the competition had been taken out and they had a field of horses ready to replace Austin. Lets call it a risk, it’s one they could take after killing turner and taking his staff. If we overlook the injuries, all good things come to an end and the same for boom periods and not just that one but those which came before in the rich history of the WWF, nothing can defeat Vince McMahon ever, except some lousy punnani.

Vince was phasing Austin away from his lead role anyhow, he did with Angle later to and before those guys he did it with Bret as well. Certainly they could have been managed better, but it was bitter pill for those proud performers, they wouldn’t be who they were otherwise.

Yeah some of those feuds were terrible, only he could have maintained that spot due to his mic skills and especially his character, nobody else survives.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
It was my favorite match from that WrestleMania and easily one of Batista's best matches. The only thing that I was disappointed by was why it didn't main-event WrestleMania. Especially when Taker and Shawn were the final two in the Royal Rumble and Taker won. And then Shawn was main-eventing Mania lol.

I didn't follow wrestling on the internet much back then but I remember reading years later that Abyss was originally supposed to be Taker's opponent at WrestleMania that year. WWE even offered him a contract with an understanding that he would be wrestling Taker at Mania. But Abyss didn't jump ship out of loyalty to TNA. We got Batista v Taker so we shouldn't be too disappointed but part of me wonders what that feud and Abyss in WWE would have looked like. Because I always thought he was a really underrated big man with a pretty cool gimmick. He was a good brawler who knew how to work. Had a bit of Foley and Boss Man in him too.
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Good ol Haitch was going to get that main event long before Taker was pencilled to go over in Texas. I guess Shawn slotted in naturally on the back of their creative template which had already been pre-prepared and we were still in that phase where mission Cena hadn’t been completed yet and he had to go over all the big names. Shawn never asked for it or a title run, am glad he got to main event again and he was the most likely to deliver in that slot, especially against the Cena of that period; it was arguably match of the night, it was great outside Cena’s mediocre selling, if it weren’t for that match Jericho would not have returned! check out his comments on the Wrestlemania Rewind on the Network.

I do recall reports on Abyss during that time loved him in TNA, wouldn’t shock me if he was being considered. Samoa Joe was also another name, but he said no after the creative was to make a tag team with Umaga. Jericho was considered to be Taker’s opponent but that may have been in 2008 and I think they talked to Sting in 2007.
 
shaz619 said:
That appearance at No Way Out was epic though, Goldberg was like a hired gun and his spear was a bullet bah gawd. Plus he looked like an absolute weapon.

In those days it was easy to suspend your disbelief watching it live in the youth.

Now fans do a bhangra over ‘Woaaaaaaaaaah’ or whatever Seth’s music is as though they are straining on the toilet or something
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Goldberg delivered the best and most devastating spears. The man was a monster in his prime. I remember being so happy when he debuted in 2003.

A shame that his recent WWE run has tarnished his legacy in the eyes of many fans.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Yes it was a fine match and Brock hadn't been made to look like that in his entire run. Even though it was an average match, Goldberg even in that came out looking like a titan (gets a lot of flak for his first WWE run) but I think he was booked well enough apart from that Elimination Chamber where a sledgehammer shot was fine to pin him.
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Goldberg was booked better than most WCW guys. We all know how much petty Vince loved burying the WCW guys.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
I actually enjoyed Austin's heel run as well especially once Trips got injured. Him defecting to the Alliance was great.
He did some of his best comedic work during that storyline. His segment where Vince booked him to defend his title in a match and Austin going off "That's exactly what Tajiri said would happen" always gets me. :D
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Austin’s heel run was fine, but then the invasion angle started, and that was the single worst piece of storytelling WWE ever told.

The invasion angle had so much potential. Imagine if the likes of Hogan, Sting, Flair, Goldberg, Nash, Hall were part of the invasion angle. How great it would have been.

But then Vince would have not been able to bury WCW, and the invasion angle was another way for petty Vince to bury WCW once again.
 
The_KING said:
Goldberg delivered the best and most devastating spears. The man was a monster in his prime. I remember being so happy when he debuted in 2003.

A shame that his recent WWE run has tarnished his legacy in the eyes of many fans.
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In the ideal world he should have called it a day after that rematch with Brock at mania, that’s how he should have been booked in his first WWE run. Now that Taker match is fresh in everyones eyes at the moment.
 
The_KING said:
Goldberg delivered the best and most devastating spears. The man was a monster in his prime. I remember being so happy when he debuted in 2003.

A shame that his recent WWE run has tarnished his legacy in the eyes of many fans.
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A big problem with Goldberg was that he was too much of a mark for himself and bought into his own hype a little too much. In WCW it was fine because that was the environment there and he really was one of the biggest stars in the business back then. But when he came to WWE, his entire deal was that everyone here is out to screw me. Which is why his WWE run never amounted to much eventhough he was booked strongly.
 
shaz619 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1780926372057133310

Am glad Kurt’s TNA run is getting so much more attention these days, especially Perc Angle; for those who know, know :afridi
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Man Angle was so good in TNA. His TNA run deserves all the plaudits. Starting with that Samoa Joe feud to the Main Event Mafia lmao..that is probably the best era of TNA 2007-09. Until Bischoff and Hogan came on and turned everything to s**t.

And he had so many great matches in TNA with the likes of Mr. Kennedy, Nigel, Joe, Matt Morgan(!)...the list goes on.
 
shaz619 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1780926372057133310

Am glad Kurt’s TNA run is getting so much more attention these days, especially Perc Angle; for those who know, know :afridi
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Only thing about Angle during that era that makes me sad was that he was probably struggling very badly with addiction. And as he mentioned in the doc. those were some of his worst years. Besides the drugs he went through a personal tragedy with his sister dying (from drug addiction) during that time period and went through a divorce. And yet he was still able to deliver so consistently in the ring. Unreal talent.
 
The_KING said:
Austin’s heel run was fine, but then the invasion angle started, and that was the single worst piece of storytelling WWE ever told.

The invasion angle had so much potential. Imagine if the likes of Hogan, Sting, Flair, Goldberg, Nash, Hall were part of the invasion angle. How great it would have been.

But then Vince would have not been able to bury WCW, and the invasion angle was another way for petty Vince to bury WCW once again.
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Vince had his chance when nWo came back one year later. But he just couldn't be seen as 'not in control'. Which is why we got what we got. nWo v Austin, Rock & (insert babyface) would have been awesome leading into Mania, if it was booked right. But Vince screwed the pooch on that.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I dunno I wasn't a fan. The Invasion storyline, that's another thing that was a massive failure. And again, Austin aligning himself with a bunch of midcarders from WCW and ECW made zero sense. I know that the death of WCW is regarded as the thing that killed the Attitude Era. But fact is WCW was garbage/unwatchable from atleast 1999 (though some would argue even before that) and WWE were still doing incredibly well. I would argue that the Austin heel turn, the Invasion angle and Rock leaving for Hollywood ended that incredible creative and commercial boom period for WWE.
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Nah Austin turned face during the invasion storyline after 2 months for a brief period and turned full face again 6 months later. That wasn't really a big stretch IMO. Attitude era ended because the competition ended and there's just so much a creative mind can keep springing on magic creatively.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I think Taker v Batista is pretty highly rated. It was most people's best or second best match of the night. I'd probably say the same for Austin v Rock, which as comfortably the third best match of the night and generally a highly rated match by most.

Sami Zayn v Johnny Knoxville is a weird one. On one hand, I can't deny that it makes the business look like a joke. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever laughed harder while watching a wrestling match. It was so funny. It's amazing how talented Sami Zayn is.
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I think Taker vs Kane matches are highly underrated not for in ring excellence but for the spectacle they provided both times.
 
shaz619 said:
I agree mostly though I partly agree with Bunny on this one, I don’t think Austin should have turned at WM 17 that was a bad idea, but his turn itself was a lot of fun and allowed Austin to show more personality and do something different, I mean you got to give it to John for doing the same thing day in day out for so long, because that ought to be more sickening for a performer.

There’s more heat in the chase, though guys like Shawn, Bret, AJ Styles, Hogan and especially Bruno were experts at carrying the strap as super baby faces and fighting from underneath, I wish we had one of those right now….Sami….*coughs*….Zayn…

But people should give Cody a chance, I think until he gets the ball rolling on a feud, we will see these house show style promos. I think he has the backing so he shouldn’t do something too silly. This face run should be ok, but I feel a turn will do wonders for him down the line and if Heyman manages him, even better, though I don’t know if it would be the same with him already working so well with Reigns and the pressure to top that, but a turn regardless will help.

For now though people should give him a shot I think even without the heat I’d have liked he can do a solid job, he needs to stay away from Social Media and some serious dance partners.
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I don't think fans ever got enough of Austin and Dwayne's titles runs as mega babyfaces every single time. They always kept having fans wanting more of their face runs. It might not look that way in retrospect, but following their runs in real time was always an exciting and entertaining period. I can't really comment on Hogan, Hart and Bruno's face title reigns as I never watched them in real time and I believe wrestling has always been more about the feeling rather than technicalities. If you feel good or excited after an event, it should be a job well done IMO.
 
shaz619 said:
I don’t think it’s anywhere close to being the worst, that’s the territory of a company going under or just being a corpse, I agree in Texas the turn was done but overall with the business, they were not as reliant on him with the emergence of other stars especially The Rock reaching a similar level of stardom and the writing was on the wall with his injuries unfortunately. There’s a lot of talent during that period which could have been used better and they had to transition to a new era, a period which which I personally found more engaging as a fan.

Cena’s promo ability was on another level though, he really knew how to work a crowd. Cody’s ceiling is a little lower in that regard which is why he will need the right dance partners, but I haven’t personally felt dissapointed massively so far as it is all so fresh but we’re in a period where every letter will be critiqued and his fans should remember he was never an elite promo, but a guy you look at as a package and there’s scope there.

Yeah don’t think it should happen next week, certainly need to get the most out of his face run for now
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Cena's ability to not get put off by crowd has always been commendable considering the fact the guy did it non stop for well over a decade continuously. The only awful promos from him IMO were during his last feud with Roman, "you almost ruined Seth Rollins, you drove Dean Ambrose out of WWE" like that stuff didn't make any sense at all and for some reason smarks popped for it just because they thought it sort of included an insider reference which weren't even true. Like Roman had nothing to do with Seth failing to draw and Dean going to AEW.
The only other complaint from Cena's promos I have is when someone is going toe to toe with him, with WWE always trying to put him over during his prime, he would do personal life attacks on guys which seemed like "he doesn't really have any other answer but to go personal"
 
Will get back to you guys once I finish burying every Idnian insect:

 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I know its easy to say that now, but everything gets old. If Rock was on TV every week, believe me all this would get very old, very quick. For one thing, there has to be a reason for him to be there. He's a millionaire movie star who also has a seat on the BoD of WWE. Why is he on TV every week? Does he need the money or the TV time? Second off, there has to be heat. Who can The Rock get heat on right now besides Cody Rhodes and Roman? And they don't seem to be in a rush to do either of those matches.

Second off, prioritizing someone like The Rock over young talent is just not very smart. Bringing him in before WrestleMania or even 2-3 other PPVs throughout the year that's different. That's the best way to use him infact. But you can't go with this strategy of completely side-lining younger guys over part-timers who can't even wrestle more than twice a year. Because 5 to 10 years from now, The Rock won't be there. But someone Bron Breakker probably will. You may not care for Breakker now, but who's to say what you might think of him after one year of strong booking on the main-roster. None of that happens ofcourse without that consistent TV time and being booked strongly. Creating new stars is the lifeblood of this business and I think that is always where the main focus of the people running the show should be.
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I followed both Austin and Rock's career during their peak. And it never for a moment felt like they shouldn't be there.
Rock isn't your ordinary face. He's arguably the greatest talker of all time. Him going heel with that cold hearted Final Boss which defied most of the attributes and mannerisms of his previous characters was unforeseen. Same thing with Austin.
I've seen enough of Bron in NXT with him failing to become articulate on mic or really connecting with the crowd or getting his chemistry perfect with his opponents in majority of his PPV matches. It always felt like the other guy was carrying him. It never became more evident than during his match with Tyler Bate and JD McDonagh.

If the talent is good enough, they will make themselves notice and create magic. LA Knight, Sami(during his heel run with Nakamura, Cesaro, Lashley etc), Bryan, AJ all got themselves over whether it was by connecting with the crowd with their promos or providing the best possible entertainment by giving them terrifically wrestled matches. Sheamus got over huge after possibly the worst US title run of recent times (squashing Ricochet and Humberto non stop for 4-5 months) by very little time on mic and just giving a great feud with Gunther. Bayley got herself over with her heel turn when odds were against her.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
I don't think fans ever got enough of Austin and Dwayne's titles runs as mega babyfaces every single time. They always kept having fans wanting more of their face runs. It might not look that way in retrospect, but following their runs in real time was always an exciting and entertaining period. I can't really comment on Hogan, Hart and Bruno's face title reigns as I never watched them in real time and I believe wrestling has always been more about the feeling rather than technicalities. If you feel good or excited after an event, it should be a job well done IMO.
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Part of the reason why they are still loved, it was a short peak but so much happened and they sort of left us wanting more
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Nah Austin turned face during the invasion storyline after 2 months for a brief period and turned full face again 6 months later. That wasn't really a big stretch IMO. Attitude era ended because the competition ended and there's just so much a creative mind can keep springing on magic creatively.
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Like I said, WCW had been rubbish for years. There was no real competition towards the end. Even the 3 million viewers that WCW was drawing during their dying days completely disappeared once WCW went out. WWE did not get any significant bump in ratings after the fall of WCW. Austin's run combined with the awful Invasion angle took up pretty much all of 2001 post Mania. And from what I remember Austin turned face for like a week, which ended up being a swerve. He turned face towards the end of the year after Survivor Series I think.
 

Come on Ziggy boy!! that’s how you show up after leaving the E, hungry, motivated and better than ever! TNA are on a roll!
 
BunnyRabbit said:
I followed both Austin and Rock's career during their peak. And it never for a moment felt like they shouldn't be there.
Rock isn't your ordinary face. He's arguably the greatest talker of all time. Him going heel with that cold hearted Final Boss which defied most of the attributes and mannerisms of his previous characters was unforeseen. Same thing with Austin.
I've seen enough of Bron in NXT with him failing to become articulate on mic or really connecting with the crowd or getting his chemistry perfect with his opponents in majority of his PPV matches. It always felt like the other guy was carrying him. It never became more evident than during his match with Tyler Bate and JD McDonagh.

If the talent is good enough, they will make themselves notice and create magic. LA Knight, Sami(during his heel run with Nakamura, Cesaro, Lashley etc), Bryan, AJ all got themselves over whether it was by connecting with the crowd with their promos or providing the best possible entertainment by giving them terrifically wrestled matches. Sheamus got over huge after possibly the worst US title run of recent times (squashing Ricochet and Humberto non stop for 4-5 months) by very little time on mic and just giving a great feud with Gunther. Bayley got herself over with her heel turn when odds were against her.
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Yeah but that's the thing. Their era is over. You can't keep relying on the names of the past to keep the gravy train going, you have to build new stars. Not building new stars is what put WCW out of business. The guys you named may not be interesting right now, but with enough TV time and enough time in the ring, who's to say how good they might end up being? Just because someone is not as good as Rock or Austin or Cena is not a good enough reason to not feature them. How will they ever get good if they don't get a chance?

WWE is not a sport where the cream rises to the topic. Yes, the best tend to find a way to get noticed but there are alot of other factors that also go into being top-level guy.

The way I see it, guys like Gunther, Sami Zayn, Cody Rhodes are all great examples of what you can accomplish with strong booking and enough TV time. I love the legends and the reason I love them is because I see them sparingly, rather than every week.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
I think Taker vs Kane matches are highly underrated not for in ring excellence but for the spectacle they provided both times.
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I actually thought that the first one was a fairly good wrestling match too. For his lack of experience, Kane did really well. And ofcourse the second one was great from a storyline aspect. Taker finally going back to being the Deadman.
 
The_KING said:
Austin’s heel run was fine, but then the invasion angle started, and that was the single worst piece of storytelling WWE ever told.

The invasion angle had so much potential. Imagine if the likes of Hogan, Sting, Flair, Goldberg, Nash, Hall were part of the invasion angle. How great it would have been.

But then Vince would have not been able to bury WCW, and the invasion angle was another way for petty Vince to bury WCW once again.
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I may be wrong but from top of my head Vince could not bring in the NWO or Goldberg right away, I think Sting didn’t want to either after the bad booking in 2001, you don’t have the top draws fans fantasised about doing matches with and you have problems with expectations right away.
 
shaz619 said:
That sounds more like a WCW really, I never looked at his turn in that way, they were never going to be impacted in a major way, the competition had been taken out and they had a field of horses ready to replace Austin. Lets call it a risk, it’s one they could take after killing turner and taking his staff. If we overlook the injuries, all good things come to an end and the same for boom periods and not just that one but those which came before in the rich history of the WWF, nothing can defeat Vince McMahon ever, except some lousy punnani.

Vince was phasing Austin away from his lead role anyhow, he did with Angle later to and before those guys he did it with Bret as well. Certainly they could have been managed better, but it was bitter pill for those proud performers, they wouldn’t be who they were otherwise.

Yeah some of those feuds were terrible, only he could have maintained that spot due to his mic skills and especially his character, nobody else survives.
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I mean yeah, everything has to end eventually. But I would still say that it was a pretty significant thing. WCW's audience kind of disappeared after the fall of WCW. I don't believe that WWE experienced any kind of significant change in ratings after WCW's end. I think the only people watching at that point were the diehards.

Yup. But things still could have been done better and differently. Austin and Rock's departure left a massive hole in the company, after which it took WWE 3 years to establish a couple of guys they could trust in that role. Brock was there for a couple of years but then he was gone too. Triple H and Angle were there but they didn't compare to Rock and Austin in-terms of star power. And when you think about it the company was never the same afterwards. I think Vince should probably be blamed greatly as well because he did not have anyone ready to take Austin and Rock's spot besides Lesnar. And that ended up going awry too. I know all this is easy to say in hindsight years later. But I dunno, for all his genius as a promoter and booker, I think Vince McMahon has been really awful booker and promoter as well for a really significant period of time.
 
shaz619 said:
I may be wrong but from top of my head Vince could not bring in the NWO or Goldberg right away, I think Sting didn’t want to either after the bad booking in 2001, you don’t have the top draws fans fantasised about doing matches with and you have problems with expectations right away.
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Yeah they all had guaranteed contracts till 2002. So essentially they got paid to sit at home. Only a handful of people like Booker T, DDP etc. go out of their contracts to go work for WWE.
 
shaz619 said:
Good ol Haitch was going to get that main event long before Taker was pencilled to go over in Texas. I guess Shawn slotted in naturally on the back of their creative template which had already been pre-prepared and we were still in that phase where mission Cena hadn’t been completed yet and he had to go over all the big names. Shawn never asked for it or a title run, am glad he got to main event again and he was the most likely to deliver in that slot, especially against the Cena of that period; it was arguably match of the night, it was great outside Cena’s mediocre selling, if it weren’t for that match Jericho would not have returned! check out his comments on the Wrestlemania Rewind on the Network.

I do recall reports on Abyss during that time loved him in TNA, wouldn’t shock me if he was being considered. Samoa Joe was also another name, but he said no after the creative was to make a tag team with Umaga. Jericho was considered to be Taker’s opponent but that may have been in 2008 and I think they talked to Sting in 2007.
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I dunno I wasn't crazy about that match. It was good but don't remember being blown away. I prefer the classic they had on a RAW in England. Ofcourse I don't blame Shawn for main-eventing. That was Vince's decision. But I dunno, I would have liked to see Taker have that moment main-eventing Mania. The WrestleMania 13 main-event doesn't exactly stick out in your memory lol.

That sounds so WWE. But I don't think that would have been worse than the treatment he got in TNA from Russo, where they painted a d!ck painted on his face and asked him to be a wild savage lol.

Its amazing how loyal guys like AJ, Joe, Abyss etc. were. And how badly TNA treated them.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I mean yeah, everything has to end eventually. But I would still say that it was a pretty significant thing. WCW's audience kind of disappeared after the fall of WCW. I don't believe that WWE experienced any kind of significant change in ratings after WCW's end. I think the only people watching at that point were the diehards.

Yup. But things still could have been done better and differently. Austin and Rock's departure left a massive hole in the company, after which it took WWE 3 years to establish a couple of guys they could trust in that role. Brock was there for a couple of years but then he was gone too. Triple H and Angle were there but they didn't compare to Rock and Austin in-terms of star power. And when you think about it the company was never the same afterwards. I think Vince should probably be blamed greatly as well because he did not have anyone ready to take Austin and Rock's spot besides Lesnar. And that ended up going awry too. I know all this is easy to say in hindsight years later. But I dunno, for all his genius as a promoter and booker, I think Vince McMahon has been really awful booker and promoter as well for a really significant period of time.
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I mean it was expected with the killing of competition, it is precisely why I hate Tony Khan so much. The alternative though was a boom in the independent scene.

Vince is the GOAT promoter, with the run he had you’d seldom never find the lack of lows, the lowest of lows were big turning points for his business. And it only took a few years because Triple H was hogging the spotlight for a big portion of that time when there were a field of horses ready, we can’t have had Austin and Rock around forever and as you said need to try something different, but on the whole the RA era was my favourite period in wrestling I don’t think it took too long for us to enter that period I would say around 2002-2003. Thank god Shawn came back, the magnificent 7 on SD, big red machine, RVD, Jericho, you got genuine HOF talent and RAW was a slow burn due to one man and the backing of his father in law
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I dunno I wasn't crazy about that match. It was good but don't remember being blown away. I prefer the classic they had on a RAW in England. Ofcourse I don't blame Shawn for main-eventing. That was Vince's decision. But I dunno, I would have liked to see Taker have that moment main-eventing Mania. The WrestleMania 13 main-event doesn't exactly stick out in your memory lol.

That sounds so WWE. But I don't think that would have been worse than the treatment he got in TNA from Russo, where they painted a d!ck painted on his face and asked him to be a wild savage lol.

Its amazing how loyal guys like AJ, Joe, Abyss etc. were. And how badly TNA treated them.
Click to expand...

I agree the match in London was better arguably the best ever on RAW, I wouldn’t have minded either Taker/Batista/Shawn in the main event of that year

It’s sad right, they made a bad move, because from 2011 onwards things got real bad down there, but at least Joe and AJ got that run in WWE.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Yeah they all had guaranteed contracts till 2002. So essentially they got paid to sit at home. Only a handful of people like Booker T, DDP etc. go out of their contracts to go work for WWE.
Click to expand...

Oh yes! they were on the turner contracts so got paid doing nothing. That was a huge problem when it came to doing the invasion because WWE acquired most of the jobbers instead and then they failed to capitalise on the heat, as they started the angle after some months and then we got that match with Booker and Buff Bagwell ffs on RAW. Sting watching it all was like no thanks when his contract expired and when WWE did bring in the NWO, they were still over, especially Hogan, it just shows it was a missed opportunity, heck even Goldberg was.

I think people vastly overlook how much Triple H ruined wrestling between 2001-2004
 
Yeah its m
shaz619 said:
I mean it was expected with the killing of competition, it is precisely why I hate Tony Khan so much. The alternative though was a boom in the independent scene.

Vince is the GOAT promoter, with the run he had you’d seldom never find the lack of lows, the lowest of lows were big turning points for his business. And it only took a few years because Triple H was hogging the spotlight for a big portion of that time when there were a field of horses ready, we can’t have had Austin and Rock around forever and as you said need to try something different, but on the whole the RA era was my favourite period in wrestling I don’t think it took too long for us to enter that period I would say around 2002-2003. Thank god Shawn came back, the magnificent 7 on SD, big red machine, RVD, Jericho, you got genuine HOF talent and RAW was a slow burn due to one man and the backing of his father in law
Click to expand...
Vince is the GOAT promoter, there's no denying that. But its hard to look back at his time with any kind of positivity. And that's not even taking into account the recent stuff. Its just that he has come up with so much bad creative in recent years that pissed me off to no end, that I had completely turned sour on him years ago.

Yeah its my favorite too and I agree. Paul Heyman booking SmackDown and building the show around his six key guys, that was awesome. Attitude Era was great but outside of the main-event guys, the midcard and match-quality wasn't that great till Eddie, Jericho, Benoit got there. Whereas RA Era had the perfect mix of a very good in-ring product and star power.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Yeah its m

Vince is the GOAT promoter, there's no denying that. But its hard to look back at his time with any kind of positivity. And that's not even taking into account the recent stuff. Its just that he has come up with so much bad creative in recent years that pissed me off to no end, that I had completely turned sour on him years ago.

Yeah its my favorite too and I agree. Paul Heyman booking SmackDown and building the show around his six key guys, that was awesome. Attitude Era was great but outside of the main-event guys, the midcard and match-quality wasn't that great till Eddie, Jericho, Benoit got there. Whereas RA Era had the perfect mix of a very good in-ring product and star power.
Click to expand...

I very seldom recall the times I’ve been really angry with him over the years outside booking Seth to go over The Fiend at HIAC, he usually learned from his mistakes. He made so many of my favourites that I find it hard to complain, especially those from the independent boom. I am more sour on Triple H and the blind Hinduvta styled worship he receives as if everything he did or does now on the sly should be overlooked.

RA era was peak wrestling for me imo have you seen the Network series it’s so good. It balanced good stories, wrestling, drama and moments better than the AE era, the RA era bought Professional Wrestling back.
 
shaz619 said:
I agree the match in London was better arguably the best ever on RAW, I wouldn’t have minded either Taker/Batista/Shawn in the main event of that year

It’s sad right, they made a bad move, because from 2011 onwards things got real bad down there, but at least Joe and AJ got that run in WWE.
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I actually thought that they turned a corner creatively in 2012, by putting focus back on guys like Bobby Roode, James Storm, Austin Aries. Aries's rise from the X Division to the World Championship was an amazing storyline that elevated him as a main-eventer. And I loved the Aces & Eights storyline, which was great until the very end...but yeah, it was mostly downhill from that point on. Its a real shame that the company was run by idiots. TNA was still drawing 1 million viewers on average till 2013, those are ratings AEW would kill for today. But TNA never understood how to capitalize on it because they didn't know how to make their brand stand-out as the alternative. Say what you will about AEW but to their credit, AEW they have atleast been able to distinguish themselves as an alternative and have done well to make money from PPVs. The less said about the rest, the better.
 
shaz619 said:
I very seldom recall the times I’ve been really angry with him over the years outside booking Seth to go over The Fiend at HIAC, he usually learned from his mistakes. He made so many of my favourites that I find it hard to complain, especially those from the independent boom. I am more sour on Triple H and the blind Hinduvta styled worship he receives as if everything he did or does now on the sly should be overlooked.

RA era was peak wrestling for me imo have you seen the Network series it’s so good. It balanced good stories, wrestling, drama and moments better than the AE era, the RA era bought Professional Wrestling back.
Click to expand...
There's too much stuff to remember honestly. But off the top of my head, the Dean Ambrose heel turn, almost the entire booking of The Fiend including burning him alive, pushing Great Khali as a main-eventer, the booking of Roman Reigns between 2015-19 including 3 atrocious Mania main-events, the Hornswoggle is my illegmimate son angle, booking Ryback as a main-eventer, the anonymous RAW GM, the freaking Lawler v Michael Cole feud...the list just goes on. I'm sure there is alot of other stuff that will come to my mind when I think about it.
 
shaz619 said:
I very seldom recall the times I’ve been really angry with him over the years outside booking Seth to go over The Fiend at HIAC, he usually learned from his mistakes. He made so many of my favourites that I find it hard to complain, especially those from the independent boom. I am more sour on Triple H and the blind Hinduvta styled worship he receives as if everything he did or does now on the sly should be overlooked.

RA era was peak wrestling for me imo have you seen the Network series it’s so good. It balanced good stories, wrestling, drama and moments better than the AE era, the RA era bought Professional Wrestling back.
Click to expand...
One thing Vince did that absolutely pissed me off was when they fired JR and humiliated him in the ring. I think that, the Montreal Screwjob and making the show go on after Owen Hart's death are three of the most disgusting things Vince has ever done as a promoter/booker. But again, I'm sure more things will come to my mind when I think of them.
 
shaz619 said:
Oh yes! they were on the turner contracts so got paid doing nothing. That was a huge problem when it came to doing the invasion because WWE acquired most of the jobbers instead and then they failed to capitalise on the heat, as they started the angle after some months and then we got that match with Booker and Buff Bagwell ffs on RAW. Sting watching it all was like no thanks when his contract expired and when WWE did bring in the NWO, they were still over, especially Hogan, it just shows it was a missed opportunity, heck even Goldberg was.

I think people vastly overlook how much Triple H ruined wrestling between 2001-2004
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Sting was like I'd rather go work for this upstart promotion run by Jarrett where Russo is doing the creative than go to WWF. Omg that match is so infamous lol. That really killed the credibility of the Alliance in more ways than one.

Yup it was a massive missed opportunity. And yes, Hogan was incredibly over hence the nostalgia babyface run where Vince even put the belt on him. With Goldberg, I think he shares alot of the blame as well. Because its not like he wasn't booked well. He beat The Rock almost immediately after coming in, had a great feud with Jericho and even beat HHH fairly quickly. But I don't think Goldberg's heart was in it because as he admits himself, he thought everyone was out to screw him because he was a WCW guy.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
There's too much stuff to remember honestly. But off the top of my head, the Dean Ambrose heel turn, almost the entire booking of The Fiend including burning him alive, pushing Great Khali as a main-eventer, the booking of Roman Reigns between 2015-19 including 3 atrocious Mania main-events, the Hornswoggle is my illegmimate son angle, booking Ryback as a main-eventer, the anonymous RAW GM, the freaking Lawler v Michael Cole feud...the list just goes on. I'm sure there is alot of other stuff that will come to my mind when I think about it.
Click to expand...

There is far more good I focus on that, or else the company would be in AEW territory, just think how they’ve surpassed the bad booking of Vince despite not being around long enough, it’s pure aids. But Triple H rightly deserves more criticism for the career’s he ruined and taking away the storylines we wanted to see.
 
shaz619 said:
What a effin programme man, am not sad it’s over, am just glad I experienced it in all its glory
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I think its something people will talk about decades from now. It was perfect in every single way. Punk's AEW run may have been short-lived but I feel like he worked with all the young talent that was worth working with: MJF, Darby, Ricky Starks, Powerhouse Hobbs. I would have liked to see a match between him and Takeshita but the rest ain't worth a sh!t.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Sting was like I'd rather go work for this upstart promotion run by Jarrett where Russo is doing the creative than go to WWF. Omg that match is so infamous lol. That really killed the credibility of the Alliance in more ways than one.

Yup it was a massive missed opportunity. And yes, Hogan was incredibly over hence the nostalgia babyface run where Vince even put the belt on him. With Goldberg, I think he shares alot of the blame as well. Because its not like he wasn't booked well. He beat The Rock almost immediately after coming in, had a great feud with Jericho and even beat HHH fairly quickly. But I don't think Goldberg's heart was in it because as he admits himself, he thought everyone was out to screw him because he was a WCW guy.
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I think that HHH absolutely ruined Berg, and yeah sure for a normal fan that was a great match, but you don’t book Goldberg like that. I think Heyman showed how it’s done when he came back in 2016 or 2017.

If WWE/F didn’t go full retard with the XFL, they would have had the money to buy out the big dogs under the Turner Contracts
 
shaz619 said:
There is far more good I focus on that, or else the company would be in AEW territory, just think how they’ve surpassed the bad booking of Vince despite not being around long enough, it’s pure aids. But Triple H rightly deserves more criticism for the career’s he ruined and taking away the storylines we wanted to see.
Click to expand...
Vince built it for sure. But the talented and capable people he hired ran it and made it what it is today. I see it more as WWE succeeding inspite of Vince, rather than because of him. Because I feel like he largely lost his marbles after 2009/10.

Again, I blame Vince for that too. Triple H had alot of pull and influence backstage but as a promoter and booker, you're the one with the final say. Vince willingly went along with all that probably because he thought it was good sh!t, pal!
 
shaz619 said:
I think that HHH absolutely ruined Berg, and yeah sure for a normal fan that was a great match, but you don’t book Goldberg like that. I think Heyman showed how it’s done when he came back in 2016 or 2017.

If WWE/F didn’t go full retard with the XFL, they would have had the money to buy out the big dogs under the Turner Contracts
Click to expand...
That feud was bad, and the matches even more so. But its not like Goldberg had to work with H for the rest of his life. His heart wasn't in it and it showed. I think maybe he had trouble coming to grips with the fact that he was not going to be booked like he was in WCW, or whatever. But he wasn't even there for a year.

Could be. I think it would have been worth it. I mean can you imagine nWo, Sting, Goldberg, DDP going up against Austin, Rock, Benoit, Jericho, Angle. That really would have been something to behold. That's the biggest missed opportunity when it comes to dream matches I think.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Vince built it for sure. But the talented and capable people he hired ran it and made it what it is today. I see it more as WWE succeeding inspite of Vince, rather than because of him. Because I feel like he largely lost his marbles after 2009/10.

Again, I blame Vince for that too. Triple H had alot of pull and influence backstage but as a promoter and booker, you're the one with the final say. Vince willingly went along with all that probably because he thought it was good sh!t, pal!
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That’s what a good promoter should do though right, lean on the experience around you right unlike that dip sh!t running that semen infested landfil sight supported by mentally challenged neck beards, he’s a unique individual and I think it’s out of this world to suggest the success of WWE had nothing to do with him, he has changed not just pro wrestling but paved the way for PPV across sports globally. The nepotism is unacceptable, but who knows, Haitch could have threatened to rape Stephanie and put him in a difficult position
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
That feud was bad, and the matches even more so. But its not like Goldberg had to work with H for the rest of his life. His heart wasn't in it and it showed. I think maybe he had trouble coming to grips with the fact that he was not going to be booked like he was in WCW, or whatever. But he wasn't even there for a year.

Could be. I think it would have been worth it. I mean can you imagine nWo, Sting, Goldberg, DDP going up against Austin, Rock, Benoit, Jericho, Angle. That really would have been something to behold. That's the biggest missed opportunity when it comes to dream matches I think.
Click to expand...

He has never been a fan of the business but that didn’t prevent the success of his 16/17 return past his prime though did it, there was a ready made template on how to book him and working one effing programme with 4/10 is enough to ruin your appeal

Yeah that stupid books itself doesn’t it, who is right what when you got all those guys in the same effing ring
 
I hope Trump wins and pardons Vince so I can enjoy WWE PPV again.

I also hope Tony Khan falls of a cliff so those gay for him have a meltdown.
 
shaz619 said:
That’s what a good promoter should do though right, lean on the experience around you right unlike that dip sh!t running that semen infested landfil sight supported by mentally challenged neck beards, he’s a unique individual and I think it’s out of this world to suggest the success of WWE had nothing to do with him, he has changed not just pro wrestling but paved the way for PPV across sports globally. The nepotism is unacceptable, but who knows, Haitch could have threatened to rape Stephanie and put him in a difficult position
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I'm not denying that. But he had as big of a role in killing interest and damaging the product's credibility.

C'mon man that's not fair. I get that you don;t like H, but that's too far. I don't think there is even any comparison between the personal character of the two. H, by all accounts is a normal human being who would never do anything like that, unlike his demented sociopath father-in-law who is clearly very messed up in the head.
 
shaz619 said:
He has never been a fan of the business but that didn’t prevent the success of his 16/17 return past his prime though did it, there was a ready made template on how to book him and working one effing programme with 4/10 is enough to ruin your appeal

Yeah that stupid books itself doesn’t it, who is right what when you got all those guys in the same effing ring
Click to expand...
And its not even like WWE wasn't going to come out of that feud on top lol.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I'm not denying that. But he had as big of a role in killing interest and damaging the product's credibility.

C'mon man that's not fair. I get that you don;t like H, but that's too far. I don't think there is even any comparison between the personal character of the two. H, by all accounts is a normal human being who would never do anything like that, unlike his demented sociopath father-in-law who is clearly very messed up in the head.
Click to expand...

We all be watching it still and the business kept growing, he had the cushion to flex his muscles and delivered mostly, he was right about the elite talent, execution not always on point but no promoter is getting it right every time. Haitch is not the angel folk think he is and in recent affairs/controversy he has played a major hand
 
Can imagine Hogan/Nash/Hall being made to drop Haitch promo eulogies like how he forced Sting
 

Ali in phenomenal form 🤣 And never did I dream of a Pakistani origin wrestler on the cover of PWI. Excited for Rebellion.
 
@shaz619 Forget everything, have you listened to this? :ROFLMAO:


Never thought I'd see the day when Cornette would be agreeing with Omega let alone praising him lol. But this just tells you how badly Tony Khan screwed up this entire situation. Even after the brawl, there were ways to salvage the situation. Instead of making everyone just sign NDAs, Tony should have tried to get Omega or other senior wrestlers and wrestling personnel to try and resolve things. And if The Bucks were going to be the Bucks, you could have still gotten Punk and Omega.

But that just goes to show you what an incompetent boss Tony Khan is. Instead of resolving the situation he was more interested in just people hiding everything and keeping everyone apart. He didn't even talk toPunk for 6 months. Thats one of the hardest thigs for me to fathom
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 Forget everything, have you listened to this? :ROFLMAO:


Never thought I'd see the day when Cornette would be agreeing with Omega let alone praising him lol. But this just tells you how badly Tony Khan screwed up this entire situation. Even after the brawl, there were ways to salvage the situation. Instead of making everyone just sign NDAs, Tony should have tried to get Omega or other senior wrestlers and wrestling personnel to try and resolve things. And if The Bucks were going to be the Bucks, you could have still gotten Punk and Omega.

But that just goes to show you what an incompetent boss Tony Khan is. Instead of resolving the situation he was more interested in just people hiding everything and keeping everyone apart. He didn't even talk toPunk for 6 months. Thats one of the hardest thigs for me to fathom
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I listened to it and was shocked to see JC praise him, how has TK managed that is beyond me.

And on the repeat listen because Omega can sound so phony, I sort of made out that he was kind of apologising for the stuff he did in Japan right? I don’t think he has said that before, I found it hilarious that he doesn’t like pulling back the curtain LOL

But it would appear he was open to talking with Punk but the lawyers, bucks etc or Tony prevented it didn’t they, but am confident that wouldn’t have resolved anything because Bucks are not Business, they are Bums
 
shaz619 said:
I listened to it and was shocked to see JC praise him, how has TK managed that is beyond me.

And on the repeat listen because Omega can sound so phony, I sort of made out that he was kind of apologising for the stuff he did in Japan right? I don’t think he has said that before, I found it hilarious that he doesn’t like pulling back the curtain LOL

But it would appear he was open to talking with Punk but the lawyers, bucks etc or Tony prevented it didn’t they, but am confident that wouldn’t have resolved anything because Bucks are not Business, they are Bums
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Yeah I did get that feeling. And I mean not just that but he was basically saying that he did not agree with the way that the Bucks handled that situation. Because he probably knew (like anyone who has ever been in a fight, or played a real sport) that, that situation was not going to end well.

Bucks are a cancer to this business. Not even because of their wrestling, but because of who they are as individuals and how mentally ill-equipped they are to be in any kind of position of power.
 
shaz619 said:
Man I will come running back to AEW with my tail between my legs if they do that 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Hahaha

Forget the ratings, the crowds are even more embarrassing. The way the poor production crew tries to cut off almost half of the arena because its empty. If I were Mox, I would be thinking of a new entrance.
 
@shaz619 I was just watching Dynamite and these idiots got the crowd to chant CM Punk again when one of them did Punk's running knee. Talk about someone living rent-free in your head. It's like Punk is the axis around which their entire world revolves.
 
shaz619 said:
We all be watching it still and the business kept growing, he had the cushion to flex his muscles and delivered mostly, he was right about the elite talent, execution not always on point but no promoter is getting it right every time. Haitch is not the angel folk think he is and in recent affairs/controversy he has played a major hand
Click to expand...
I think if you asked most fans they would say that they are much happy with H in-charge of creative than Vince. And I think the product being as good as it has been recently has to be attributed to Nick Khan and Triple H being at the helm too. Especially Triple H because he is the booker.
 
shaz619 said:
In the ideal world he should have called it a day after that rematch with Brock at mania, that’s how he should have been booked in his first WWE run. Now that Taker match is fresh in everyones eyes at the moment.
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That Taker match had no business taking place in 2019. Taker is my all time favourite and I am pissed that one of his final matches was an absolute train wreck.
 
Tony Khan needs to sign the hottest free-agent in professional wrestling, Jinder Mahal and make him World Champion just to spite WWE. Since that is what he cares most about anyway

Jinder Mahal v Hook at All In London for the AEW World Championship. Book it!
 
The_KING said:
That Taker match had no business taking place in 2019. Taker is my all time favourite and I am pissed that one of his final matches was an absolute train wreck.
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The match layout was interesting and they went all out, it wasn’t expected to be so long, would it have been better if Goldberg had not concussed himself?
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 I was just watching Dynamite and these idiots got the crowd to chant CM Punk again when one of them did Punk's running knee. Talk about someone living rent-free in your head. It's like Punk is the axis around which their entire world revolves.
Click to expand...

Why promote another wrestler on your show, I mean it’s amazing for Punk though 🤣
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I think if you asked most fans they would say that they are much happy with H in-charge of creative than Vince. And I think the product being as good as it has been recently has to be attributed to Nick Khan and Triple H being at the helm too. Especially Triple H because he is the booker.
Click to expand...

Come on man, most fans been on that Haitch Kool Aid since the black and gold era of NXT. I don’t think the current product is flawless either, especially the big four PPV’s and the spectacles the company has been known for. This is why I have started watching TNA mate especially while Punk is out and I’m serious 🤣 it’s making me feel again, something which both AEW/WWE is not able to do consistently 👀
 
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