The Wrestling Discussion Thread

@shaz619 So I just saw the trailer for this. And apparently it's a fully authorized doc. Vince is in this as an exclusive talking head himself. As are guys like Hogan, Rock, Austin, Cena, Triple H. Bischoff, Bruce Prichard. I'm guessing the interviews with Vince were filmed long before the allegations came out. Should be an interesting watch. With the current developments I am sure alot of Vince's words here will end up being viewed from a very different lens.

This should be a great watch then on paper, unless they spend majority of the time tearing him down; wonder if they can maintain objectivity despite the obvious conflict of interest.
 
This should be a great watch then on paper, unless they spend majority of the time tearing him down; wonder if they can maintain objectivity despite the obvious conflict of interest.
That would be the easy thing to do. To tear him down and look past what he achieved and created.
 
Putting the Intercontinental Championship on Jey Uso? Seriously? This is workhorse title that is synonymous with great in-ring technicians. And now it's on Jey Uso. :facepalm:
 
Putting the Intercontinental Championship on Jey Uso? Seriously? This is workhorse title that is synonymous with great in-ring technicians. And now it's on Jey Uso. :facepalm:

Did he win it lol I bet Trips only agreed to it due to the complaints on social media about his lack of direction, Trips is an insecure dweeb who pays attention to any possible feedback which can be perceived as negative towards his reputation. Small man.
 
Did he win it lol I bet Trips only agreed to it due to the complaints on social media about his lack of direction, Trips is an insecure dweeb who pays attention to any possible feedback which can be perceived as negative towards his reputation. Small man.
Yeah I feel like he buckled under the pressure from Rikishi and others online. I get that WWE is stuck in the uncomfortable position of having a guy who is over and a terrible wrestler, but putting the IC title on him is not the answer.

I think he will get exposed with this title run. Wrestling fans these days are more fickle than ever because of social media. And even for WWE fans (who don't care as much about the in-ring product) this guy going out there and having 20 minute 'mat classics' is going to be hard to watch. There's only so many times you can see a guy do the same five moves and 50 superkicks.
 
Yeah I feel like he buckled under the pressure from Rikishi and others online. I get that WWE is stuck in the uncomfortable position of having a guy who is over and a terrible wrestler, but putting the IC title on him is not the answer.

I think he will get exposed with this title run. Wrestling fans these days are more fickle than ever because of social media. And even for WWE fans (who don't care as much about the in-ring product) this guy going out there and having 20 minute 'mat classics' is going to be hard to watch. There's only so many times you can see a guy do the same five moves and 50 superkicks.

I didn’t see the whole thing but the match appeared to be pretty good and he blew the roof off that place, if he’s making them a lot of money then it’s business. They have to get the most out of how over he is, for however long it lasts and the onus is on him to deliver now. At the end of the day for someone like me there are a handful of guys worth watching these days and this is just where we are with this era.
 
Yeah I feel like he buckled under the pressure from Rikishi and others online. I get that WWE is stuck in the uncomfortable position of having a guy who is over and a terrible wrestler, but putting the IC title on him is not the answer.

I think he will get exposed with this title run. Wrestling fans these days are more fickle than ever because of social media. And even for WWE fans (who don't care as much about the in-ring product) this guy going out there and having 20 minute 'mat classics' is going to be hard to watch. There's only so many times you can see a guy do the same five moves and 50 superkicks.
Jey's matches with Roman were pretty good but I would credit it to Roman's in ring generalship.
Jey isn't a very good singles wrestler but he's super over.
 
Jey's matches with Roman were pretty good but I would credit it to Roman's in ring generalship.
Jey isn't a very good singles wrestler but he's super over.

It was early days into his title run and Roman was just getting started in terms of adjusting his ring work as well, I think Jey does deserve credit for playing a big part in the development of the tribal chief. I feel he was up to it and motivated to work with his cousin, am not sure if he has the same drive now but his character work is usually strong
 
I didn’t see the whole thing but the match appeared to be pretty good and he blew the roof off that place, if he’s making them a lot of money then it’s business. They have to get the most out of how over he is, for however long it lasts and the onus is on him to deliver now. At the end of the day for someone like me there are a handful of guys worth watching these days and this is just where we are with this era.
So I saw the match and credit where credit is due, it was pretty good. Maybe Jey Uso's best singles match besides his matches with Roman. His selling wasn't bad here and the crowd was with it every step of the way. The pop for the title change was also big as you would expect it to be. I guess I can't blame them too much for pushing someone who is super over. But still I don't get what the fans see. He is not on the same level as guys like Sami Zayn and L.A. Knight, who are in a similar position...moving up the card. And like I said, if he doesn't improve his work in the ring he will be exposed.
 
So I saw the match and credit where credit is due, it was pretty good. Maybe Jey Uso's best singles match besides his matches with Roman. His selling wasn't bad here and the crowd was with it every step of the way. The pop for the title change was also big as you would expect it to be. I guess I can't blame them too much for pushing someone who is super over. But still I don't get what the fans see. He is not on the same level as guys like Sami Zayn and L.A. Knight, who are in a similar position...moving up the card. And like I said, if he doesn't improve his work in the ring he will be exposed.

Sami and LAK arguably should be pursuing world championships, but their momentum often gets stalled due to the longer master plan
 
We say it for alot of guys, but going to WWE/NXT might be the best thing that Daniel Garcia can do for his career. I don't know how true the rumours are that Triple H thinks highly of him. But he is definitely someone who is talented in the ring and has a ton of potential as a technical wrestler. That said he still needs to figure alot of stuff out with his character and promos. Right now, he is not very good on the mic. And WWE is the best place to provide him with that structure and right guidance. Which is what he needs to grow right now.

WWE should focus on trying to get Garcia, Ricky Starks and Wardlow. They are tree talents with alot of potential who have reached their ceiling in AEW.
 
Sami and LAK arguably should be pursuing world championships, but their momentum often gets stalled due to the longer master plan
L.A. Knight has been over for 2 years now. And its only just that he has become U.S. Champion. With Sami we have talked in detail about how they missed the opportunity to cash in on how over he was with the Bloodline storyline.

There is too much predictability in Triple H's booking. Sometimes I wish he would just take some risks. Not every championship reign has to be over 200 days, or planned one year in advance. Sometimes you have to give the fans what they want.
 
L.A. Knight has been over for 2 years now. And its only just that he has become U.S. Champion. With Sami we have talked in detail about how they missed the opportunity to cash in on how over he was with the Bloodline storyline.

There is too much predictability in Triple H's booking. Sometimes I wish he would just take some risks. Not every championship reign has to be over 200 days, or planned one year in advance. Sometimes you have to give the fans what they want.

His booking is a lot like his reign of terror, I don’t know whether I prefer Trips the worker or Trips the booker 🤔
 
L.A. Knight has been over for 2 years now. And its only just that he has become U.S. Champion. With Sami we have talked in detail about how they missed the opportunity to cash in on how over he was with the Bloodline storyline.

There is too much predictability in Triple H's booking. Sometimes I wish he would just take some risks. Not every championship reign has to be over 200 days, or planned one year in advance. Sometimes you have to give the fans what they want.
Prichard needs to get involved in booking as well.
 
Did not like Drew's return promo on CM Punk for their HIAC match that much. Punk's promo felt a lot real with substance. Drew's promo came across a bit forced.
 
Did not like Drew's return promo on CM Punk for their HIAC match that much. Punk's promo felt a lot real with substance. Drew's promo came across a bit forced.
At this point they could go out and lay down in the ring for 20 minutes and it still wouldn't make a difference to me because I am sold on this match. This feud has been built so beautifully with so much stuff that feels real, that at this point you want to see them just go out there and beat each other bloody inside a steel cage. Nothing beats the blow-off cage match. It is the way to end a hot feud like this one. It actually makes sense for them to not even lay a finger on each other till the match. Because the time for talk is done. There is no amount of punishment they can inflict in each other now that will be greater than the punishment they will inflict on each other inside that cage.

Also, this match has to be the main-event on this show. It would be downright stupid if its not.
 
Thought Nigel vs. Bryan was very good. It wasn't a mat classic but Nigel looked great for someone who has been out of the business for 13 years or so. He still has one of the best lariats I have ever seen. I think this match was hurt by the useless crowd and the flat finish. Not to mention, absolutely zero build-up. Bryan didn't even say a word in this entire feud. But all in all, a nice way to revisit this classic feud that most wrestling fans probably don't even know of. I know that Nigel badly wanted this match ever since he got to AEW. So if this is indeed his last match then I am glad he got to go out there and finish on a high wrestling his greatest rival. Considering the sheer heartbreak he has had to suffer in his career I think he deserved this.
 
@shaz619 Have you seen any of the Vince McMahon doc.? I'm 3 episodes in and liking it so far. I kinda laughed at the start because the first 4 minutes or so were just filled with Vince and every talking head making statements that you view in a far different light now that the allegations have come out. Infact some of the stuff Vince says here is remarkably tone deaf and self indicting in itself, like when he talks about the Rita Chatterton case. One thing I have liked it about this doc. though is that it effectively shows what a ruthless scumbag Vince was. Who would do anything to protect his interests, even if it been completely screwing his wrestlers. I am glad they showed that Vince screwing Bret wasn't something that happened out of the blue. He did the same thing to Wendy Richter when she refused to drop the belt in 1985. But at the same time you can't deny that this side of him is what made him the most successful promoter in the history of the business too.

But man some of the lines in this are just....For example: Triple H after he was told by Vince that he would be punished for the curtain call: "...and Vince said to me and I quote: you're gonna have to eat s**t and like the taste of it."
 
His booking is a lot like his reign of terror, I don’t know whether I prefer Trips the worker or Trips the booker 🤔
This is true lol. This fool is the night king. Been tormenting wwe for so so long. For some of us our whole lives.
 
La knight needs to dethrone whoever is wwe champion in a by next year.

Right now it’s gonna be a tussle between Kevin Owens, Randy and Cody. Would love to see heel Cody and face Randy somehow. Randy is a fan favorite as this anti hero enforcer type
 
This is true lol. This fool is the night king. Been tormenting wwe for so so long. For some of us our whole lives.

He is basically Misbah Ul Haq’s older / uglier prah with the M5 Motorway lanes etched in his forehead @Rana
 
@shaz619 Have you seen any of the Vince McMahon doc.? I'm 3 episodes in and liking it so far. I kinda laughed at the start because the first 4 minutes or so were just filled with Vince and every talking head making statements that you view in a far different light now that the allegations have come out. Infact some of the stuff Vince says here is remarkably tone deaf and self indicting in itself, like when he talks about the Rita Chatterton case. One thing I have liked it about this doc. though is that it effectively shows what a ruthless scumbag Vince was. Who would do anything to protect his interests, even if it been completely screwing his wrestlers. I am glad they showed that Vince screwing Bret wasn't something that happened out of the blue. He did the same thing to Wendy Richter when she refused to drop the belt in 1985. But at the same time you can't deny that this side of him is what made him the most successful promoter in the history of the business too.

But man some of the lines in this are just....For example: Triple H after he was told by Vince that he would be punished for the curtain call: "...and Vince said to me and I quote: you're gonna have to eat s**t and like the taste of it."

I have this on my list and will respond to this once I catch up to, I am more excited going by your post and the show seems to be a hit because I have casuals who know I love wrestling; messaging me a fair bit about it!
 
La knight needs to dethrone whoever is wwe champion in a by next year.

Right now it’s gonna be a tussle between Kevin Owens, Randy and Cody. Would love to see heel Cody and face Randy somehow. Randy is a fan favorite as this anti hero enforcer type
For me, Randy is always most compelling as a heel. That's where he thrives. I would love to see both Owens and Orton turn on Cody...but not at the same time. Has to be Owens first and Orton later. Cody is in desperate need to some opponents with some heat on them.
 
Still so weird to see these two in the same frame lol

Also, how about Punk’s gains!! @Suleiman

He is in the best shape of his life lol so much meatier then his AEW run as well.
Punk, Orton and AJ have added some serious size. Which is funny considering they are three of the oldest guys on the main roster, after Mysterio.
 
Punk and Drew put on a modern day classic at Bad Blood. This match was like a giant middle finger to modern day cage matches which just devolve into a stunt and furniture show. This match had weapons but they were used sparingly. It wasn't a case of oh what weapon is he going to take out from under the ring now. The blood meant something, the selling was otherworldly (from both guys) and the match itself legitimately felt like the conclusion to a blood feud between two who hate each other. This match lived up to all the expectations. It's a shame it opened the show tho because there was no way anything was following this.
 
Punk and Drew put on a modern day classic at Bad Blood. This match was like a giant middle finger to modern day cage matches which just devolve into a stunt and furniture show. This match had weapons but they were used sparingly. It wasn't a case of oh what weapon is he going to take out from under the ring now. The blood meant something, the selling was otherworldly (from both guys) and the match itself legitimately felt like the conclusion to a blood feud between two who hate each other. This match lived up to all the expectations. It's a shame it opened the show tho because there was no way anything was following this.

For me it’s one of the best cell matches ever from this era if not the best and probably the most engrossing since the Taker/Lesnar one, it was a throwback to the RA era but they adjusted enough to keep the pace moving. When it comes to flow, Punk reminds me a lot of Bret, I know he’s a mark of the guy and am not just saying it because of that, am saying it because every minute in a CM Punk match is like a chapter in a book, and I honestly don’t think the WWE fans realise or appreciate the greatness they are witnessing when he is in the ring.

The use of that first table was fantastic lol it made sense, like screw setting it up and what not in premeditating fashion, am going to use it like a torture device when the juices are flowing.

They threw hands, beat the sh!t out of each other and hit all the big moves, sold extremely well and bled.

Small gripe, but that second table maybe should have been set after the big near falls. When there’s a table on the outside and you hit your finisher, you just know the match isn’t over, speaking of witch, that brainbuster like suplex from Drew to the outside was sick.

Ultimately the story of this match was Drew’s obsession ultimately getting the best of him.

This match is a 5* because I watched it with a casual and they asked me; do these guys really hate each other? a big smile came across my face and I said YES. Very rarely do I feel vindicated as a wrestling fan these days lol but Punk and Drew did the industry justice.

And it made zero sense they should not have gone on last, just so Rocky boy could come out for a minute to fart. The tag match should have been about 15 minutes, it was so dull during the first half. I was thinking Cody came out first with the title, Reigns followed and my god what a specimen, not seen him in better shape, used his downtime well to add lean muscle being the professional he is even after that landmark title run! the fireworks, the general presentation etc Reigns basically made the champion look like a chump; then Rocky boy comes out at the end and makes them both look like chumps lol
 
For me it’s one of the best cell matches ever from this era if not the best and probably the most engrossing since the Taker/Lesnar one, it was a throwback to the RA era but they adjusted enough to keep the pace moving. When it comes to flow, Punk reminds me a lot of Bret, I know he’s a mark of the guy and am not just saying it because of that, am saying it because every minute in a CM Punk match is like a chapter in a book, and I honestly don’t think the WWE fans realise or appreciate the greatness they are witnessing when he is in the ring.

The use of that first table was fantastic lol it made sense, like screw setting it up and what not in premeditating fashion, am going to use it like a torture device when the juices are flowing.

They threw hands, beat the sh!t out of each other and hit all the big moves, sold extremely well and bled.

Small gripe, but that second table maybe should have been set after the big near falls. When there’s a table on the outside and you hit your finisher, you just know the match isn’t over, speaking of witch, that brainbuster like suplex from Drew to the outside was sick.

Ultimately the story of this match was Drew’s obsession ultimately getting the best of him.

This match is a 5* because I watched it with a casual and they asked me; do these guys really hate each other? a big smile came across my face and I said YES. Very rarely do I feel vindicated as a wrestling fan these days lol but Punk and Drew did the industry justice.

And it made zero sense they should not have gone on last, just so Rocky boy could come out for a minute to fart. The tag match should have been about 15 minutes, it was so dull during the first half. I was thinking Cody came out first with the title, Reigns followed and my god what a specimen, not seen him in better shape, used his downtime well to add lean muscle being the professional he is even after that landmark title run! the fireworks, the general presentation etc Reigns basically made the champion look like a chump; then Rocky boy comes out at the end and makes them both look like chumps lol
Yes this match flowed beautifully and all the spots were really well-crafted with alot of thought put into them. The match had a number of sick spots besides that brainbuster. You had Drew getting bashed on the head with the tool box as he got busted open the hard way. And then my favorite which was Drew missing the claymore and going back first on the edge of the steel steps (yikes), after which Punk put the beads in his mouth and hit the GTS with the chain around his knee. I hate to use this word but both Drew and Punk gave great performances in this match. Even between the moves these guys always tried to give you the impression that they were in there to kill each other. I think that's what resonated with your friend too. I think the full-circle moment of this storyline will be when Drew beats Punk for the belt at Clash at the Castle 2025.

I would put it up there as one of the best HIAC matches ever. I think from recent years, the other really good ones are Taker v Lesnar and Cody v Rollins. And personally, I liked this more than both of those.

The tag match was a SmackDown main-event stretched to 25 minutes. They didn't even do anything for the first four minutes. Agree on Rock making them both look like chumps. In general the whole post-match was poorly executed.
 
Finally watched Bad Blood.
The HIAC lived upto reputation and for once felt like a proper feud ender. The match itself was beautifully crafted. Even in all the bloody action, storytelling remained the main aspect of the match and it delivered on all aspects.
Apart from that, the whole show was flat apart from the final 10 mins of the mainevent.

And boy oh boy, did Dwayne make both Roman and Cody look like total chumps? The aura you can't manufacture.
 
Finally watched Bad Blood.
The HIAC lived upto reputation and for once felt like a proper feud ender. The match itself was beautifully crafted. Even in all the bloody action, storytelling remained the main aspect of the match and it delivered on all aspects.
Apart from that, the whole show was flat apart from the final 10 mins of the mainevent.

And boy oh boy, did Dwayne make both Roman and Cody look like total chumps? The aura you can't manufacture.
It's amazing that they had Gunther v Sami on RAW, considering the quality of matches on this card. Liv v Rhea had one of the worst finishes I have seen in a long time.
 
I think Gunther v Punk is the next big match. I can see it happening at Survivor Series. Can have Seth cost Punk the match and use it to build a WrestleMania title match between the two. In the meantime Cody v Gunther should be absolutely fantastic. The perfect babyface v the perfect heel. Also I am so glad that RAW is 2 hours now. Even if its just for this year.
 
I think Gunther v Punk is the next big match. I can see it happening at Survivor Series. Can have Seth cost Punk the match and use it to build a WrestleMania title match between the two. In the meantime Cody v Gunther should be absolutely fantastic. The perfect babyface v the perfect heel. Also I am so glad that RAW is 2 hours now. Even if its just for this year.
that is one match where i want cody to win. codys reign has run out of steam. his strength is matches rather than crafting feuds.
 
that is one match where i want cody to win. codys reign has run out of steam. his strength is matches rather than crafting feuds.

H deserves criticism for that as well because the lead champion these days seldom enjoy as much control over the creative direction of their title run unless you’re a big name. He should be pushed strong in compelling feuds, but it feels more like they are going through the motions until the big programmes begin. Lazy booking.
 
H deserves criticism for that as well because the lead champion these days seldom enjoy as much control over the creative direction of their title run unless you’re a big name. He should be pushed strong in compelling feuds, but it feels more like they are going through the motions until the big programmes begin. Lazy booking.
agreed. it seems like the creative had no plans for cody after winning the title at Mania till roman and dwayne returning. cody should be in that bracket as well as he's done nothing to make his stories mean anything since winning the title.
 
agreed. it seems like the creative had no plans for cody after winning the title at Mania till roman and dwayne returning. cody should be in that bracket as well as he's done nothing to make his stories mean anything since winning the title.

Hogan, Shawn Michaels, John Cena & even Reigns all had major programmes lined up after becoming champion. At the top level, workers seldom make the best promoters and a lot of it is also the conflict of interest. WWE is at a stage where the business runs itself and it lacks real leadership on the creative side, there are a few people who are smart enough to agree some control in their contracts when it concerns what they do on that front.
 
@shaz619 Watching WWE post-WrestleMania 14 and gotta say I am starting to develop some deep-seated hatred for Triple H. He's just about the biggest, most insufferable douchebag as the leader of DX and the faction itself is remarkable garbage. I get that this was a different era, but even for this era watching four grown men act like 11 year olds is lame as hell. It amazes me how anyone who wasn't a juvenile teenager found this entertaining. And I am amazed that WWE like to whitewash history and pretend any of this trash was any good.
 
@shaz619 Watching WWE post-WrestleMania 14 and gotta say I am starting to develop some deep-seated hatred for Triple H. He's just about the biggest, most insufferable douchebag as the leader of DX and the faction itself is remarkable garbage. I get that this was a different era, but even for this era watching four grown men act like 11 year olds is lame as hell. It amazes me how anyone who wasn't a juvenile teenager found this entertaining. And I am amazed that WWE like to whitewash history and pretend any of this trash was any good.
There are other storyline on the show too. Rock v Faaroq, Taker v Kane, the genesis of Austin v McMahon, Cornette trying his best to make people care about UFC shooters Shamrock and Severn; but nothing is as bad as this with as much TV time dedicated to it.
 
@shaz619 Watching WWE post-WrestleMania 14 and gotta say I am starting to develop some deep-seated hatred for Triple H. He's just about the biggest, most insufferable douchebag as the leader of DX and the faction itself is remarkable garbage. I get that this was a different era, but even for this era watching four grown men act like 11 year olds is lame as hell. It amazes me how anyone who wasn't a juvenile teenager found this entertaining. And I am amazed that WWE like to whitewash history and pretend any of this trash was any good.

There are other storyline on the show too. Rock v Faaroq, Taker v Kane, the genesis of Austin v McMahon, Cornette trying his best to make people care about UFC shooters Shamrock and Severn; but nothing is as bad as this with as much TV time dedicated to it.

A big part of it was the nature of the era, shock value, unfiltered, non-PC type content was driving the boom period but at the top there were some solid storylines, though it was the exceptional / edgy character work which was pivotal imo it got a bit better I think when Russo left. But I agree with you, what made DX originally so great was Shawn Michaels and maybe he doesn’t get the credit for it, but I will say ‘heel/tweener’ Bret Hart as well. Shawn’s issues on and off the screen from late 96 into 97 provided DX legitimacy, they legitimately use to get in trouble with the network and Shawn being completely unhinged was belivable, the audience obviously still loved him for it because entertaining the fans was his salvation, breaking the fourth wall, shooting on each to actually legitimately fighting one another backstage just elevated the stock of both men and the authenticity of DX as a faction, you add Chyna to the mix as the silent bad @ss and they were really over; and the magazines both Kayfabe and the Observer had a field day with it all, the internet was still sort of new if not up and running? and when it was, the hype was real. Hunter was more of a side chick taking advantage of Michaels as the top star, obviously the link was there from the Kliq and it was a decent breakthrough for him to get himself as close to the top as possible.

But with Michaels and Bret out of the equation, it wasn’t really about shooting on your enemies or going against the leadership, it became a bit of a comedy didn’t it and while it was still popular, I don’t think it quiet reached the heights of the original incarnation of DX which ended poetically with Shawn going for broke with a severely damaged back against Austin - it still impresses Mike Tyson to this day! he talks about it on his pod a lot what a tough SOB Shawn was for what he did that night and you can argue that’s what DX was, pushing the boundaries not just externally but from a mental & physical POV.

If you keep watching H well into 2004, episode by episode, I am sure your hatred will manage to keep mutating until it is etched within your soul.
 
There are other storyline on the show too. Rock v Faaroq, Taker v Kane, the genesis of Austin v McMahon, Cornette trying his best to make people care about UFC shooters Shamrock and Severn; but nothing is as bad as this with as much TV time dedicated to it.

Severn was sort of booked like Lesnar right? he had so many titles, may have simultaneously held MMA & NWA world championships I can’t remember. Shamrock was so over as well man, he worked stiff but despite his MMA background, he was surprisingly safe, can’t have been easy for him to transition from that sport and especially with the limited training options.
 
A big part of it was the nature of the era, shock value, unfiltered, non-PC type content was driving the boom period but at the top there were some solid storylines, though it was the exceptional / edgy character work which was pivotal imo it got a bit better I think when Russo left. But I agree with you, what made DX originally so great was Shawn Michaels and maybe he doesn’t get the credit for it, but I will say ‘heel/tweener’ Bret Hart as well. Shawn’s issues on and off the screen from late 96 into 97 provided DX legitimacy, they legitimately use to get in trouble with the network and Shawn being completely unhinged was belivable, the audience obviously still loved him for it because entertaining the fans was his salvation, breaking the fourth wall, shooting on each to actually legitimately fighting one another backstage just elevated the stock of both men and the authenticity of DX as a faction, you add Chyna to the mix as the silent bad @ss and they were really over; and the magazines both Kayfabe and the Observer had a field day with it all, the internet was still sort of new if not up and running? and when it was, the hype was real. Hunter was more of a side chick taking advantage of Michaels as the top star, obviously the link was there from the Kliq and it was a decent breakthrough for him to get himself as close to the top as possible.

But with Michaels and Bret out of the equation, it wasn’t really about shooting on your enemies or going against the leadership, it became a bit of a comedy didn’t it and while it was still popular, I don’t think it quiet reached the heights of the original incarnation of DX which ended poetically with Shawn going for broke with a severely damaged back against Austin - it still impresses Mike Tyson to this day! he talks about it on his pod a lot what a tough SOB Shawn was for what he did that night and you can argue that’s what DX was, pushing the boundaries not just externally but from a mental & physical POV.

If you keep watching H well into 2004, episode by episode, I am sure your hatred will manage to keep mutating until it is etched within your soul.
No I get that, there's alot of other stuff on the show too that has not aged well but it's still entertaining as hell. But this DX stuff sticks out like a sore thumb because of how bad and unfunny it is. I have seen pretty much all of RAW 2002 onwards but somehow I still don't hate HHH for the reign of terror as much as I hate him in this role.

Makes sense re: DX with Michaels. It's interesting you bring that up because I get the feeling that alot of people thought the same when Shawn came back in 2002. Is he going to be able to wrestle? Is he going to get injured? Say what you will about HHH, but they did an amazing job building that feud with a simple back-breaker that HHH gave Shawn when he turned on him after the DX reunion. And that match they had at SummerSlam might just be one of my favorite matches ever. Michaels was incredible and barely missed a step despite being out four years but HHH also put on an incredible performance in that match. Watching RAW back its funny to see that they laid the seeds for this feud pretty much right after WrestleMania 14 in HHH's promo on RAW because I guess they thought Michaels would be back soon.
 
Severn was sort of booked like Lesnar right? he had so many titles, may have simultaneously held MMA & NWA world championships I can’t remember. Shamrock was so over as well man, he worked stiff but despite his MMA background, he was surprisingly safe, can’t have been easy for him to transition from that sport and especially with the limited training options.
I worded that confusingly. I didn't mean to say I didn't like those storylines, I thought they were good. And yes, this was the early days of UFC so they were trying to prop that stuff up. According to Cornette, they were apparently building towards a match between Severn and Shamrock. At that point they were 1-1 in UFC. And I guess the third match was going to be a wrestling match or a 'Lion's Den' match. Then ofcourse 'you know who' came up with the idea for the Brawl for All and killed anything involving shoot fighters or shoot fights.
 
No I get that, there's alot of other stuff on the show too that has not aged well but it's still entertaining as hell. But this DX stuff sticks out like a sore thumb because of how bad and unfunny it is. I have seen pretty much all of RAW 2002 onwards but somehow I still don't hate HHH for the reign of terror as much as I hate him in this role.

Makes sense re: DX with Michaels. It's interesting you bring that up because I get the feeling that alot of people thought the same when Shawn came back in 2002. Is he going to be able to wrestle? Is he going to get injured? Say what you will about HHH, but they did an amazing job building that feud with a simple back-breaker that HHH gave Shawn when he turned on him after the DX reunion. And that match they had at SummerSlam might just be one of my favorite matches ever. Michaels was incredible and barely missed a step despite being out four years but HHH also put on an incredible performance in that match. Watching RAW back its funny to see that they laid the seeds for this feud pretty much right after WrestleMania 14 in HHH's promo on RAW because I guess they thought Michaels would be back soon.
But you're right. Shawn was an unreal talent. There will never be another guy as versatile, athletic and seamless in the ring. You could argue that so and so was a better wrestler but what Shawn did in the ring was not something anyone else could do.
 
But you're right. Shawn was an unreal talent. There will never be another guy as versatile, athletic and seamless in the ring. You could argue that so and so was a better wrestler but what Shawn did in the ring was not something anyone else could do.
I have always rated Shawn as slightly a bigger all round deal than Bret. It was just his aura and fluidity in the ring that captivated crowds. He was possibly the most "natural" wrestler ever if there is such a thing.
 
There are other storyline on the show too. Rock v Faaroq, Taker v Kane, the genesis of Austin v McMahon, Cornette trying his best to make people care about UFC shooters Shamrock and Severn; but nothing is as bad as this with as much TV time dedicated to it.
I liked Taker vs Kane
 
No I get that, there's alot of other stuff on the show too that has not aged well but it's still entertaining as hell. But this DX stuff sticks out like a sore thumb because of how bad and unfunny it is. I have seen pretty much all of RAW 2002 onwards but somehow I still don't hate HHH for the reign of terror as much as I hate him in this role.

Makes sense re: DX with Michaels. It's interesting you bring that up because I get the feeling that alot of people thought the same when Shawn came back in 2002. Is he going to be able to wrestle? Is he going to get injured? Say what you will about HHH, but they did an amazing job building that feud with a simple back-breaker that HHH gave Shawn when he turned on him after the DX reunion. And that match they had at SummerSlam might just be one of my favorite matches ever. Michaels was incredible and barely missed a step despite being out four years but HHH also put on an incredible performance in that match. Watching RAW back its funny to see that they laid the seeds for this feud pretty much right after WrestleMania 14 in HHH's promo on RAW because I guess they thought Michaels would be back soon.

He sabotaged Jericho’s push quiet a bit in those days to who was 10x more over, H was truly able to establish himself as backstage politician when Austin was injured, he didn’t want to put someone like him over at the time for the title either and he did the job for Mick instead who he respected a lot more. Then WM 2000 happened and that truly established him as a piece of sh!t and Backlash was not going to make up for what he did, though it did end up being arguably one of the best WM follow up events for them.

H was ok in that match with all the bells and whistles, but made to look like a million dollars not just then, but throughout the feud which would establish him as the WHC and he got Shawn to thank for that. Shawn came back like a miracle and it was maybe the best SS match ever? Shawn made me believe in pro-wrestling and suspend my disbelief in a way which nobody else could, I had that match on the HBK from the Vault DVD they put out right after his return. It’s mad to think his 2nd run was possibly more special then the 1st. If you’re watching archive stuff, I’d watch the HBK/Jericho feud from 2008 from right after WM 24, the feud starts then; every segment and match they were involved in were a masterpiece.
 
But you're right. Shawn was an unreal talent. There will never be another guy as versatile, athletic and seamless in the ring. You could argue that so and so was a better wrestler but what Shawn did in the ring was not something anyone else could do.

Jonny Gargano described his work best as ‘Shakespearean Wrestling.’
 
The finishing stretch in the HIAC match was pretty sick, but my favourite spot in the match was when Punk crawled to the top rope with the tool box, losing his footing and then giving Drew a big smack anyway and climbing the opposite post to hit him again. He lost his footing which sort of was sold as exhaustion, and then adapting right after with his shear hatred to hit Drew with it anyway and it built more anticipation for when he’d go back up again. I don’t know what you guys thought but I felt it was a really cool/twisted spot.

It reminded me a bit of Shawn v Razor 2 at SS, he struggled to hit the Sweet Chin Music off the ladder, but it kept building the anticipation and when it was finally nailed, it blew the roof off.
 
@RedwoodOriginal Why is the wrestling world silent on what’s happening with Ricky Starks, the man is healthy the last I checked? AEW is meant to be this woke promotion that treats all like royalty, but I don’t feel like any of their talents have been punished so severely like him. Jungle Jack Off & Dumb As A Nut Page are on TV at least regardless off the terrible booking, but there’s not a peep on Starks, I don’t recall Vince being this petty, especially with somebody he saw dollar signs in. Starks is in the prime of his career and this is a disgrace.

Also, I don’t know what is happening with Bryan but apparently he is retired? last I watched him or AEW was the match they done with Ospreay.
 
@RedwoodOriginal Why is the wrestling world silent on what’s happening with Ricky Starks, the man is healthy the last I checked? AEW is meant to be this woke promotion that treats all like royalty, but I don’t feel like any of their talents have been punished so severely like him. Jungle Jack Off & Dumb As A Nut Page are on TV at least regardless off the terrible booking, but there’s not a peep on Starks, I don’t recall Vince being this petty, especially with somebody he saw dollar signs in. Starks is in the prime of his career and this is a disgrace.

Also, I don’t know what is happening with Bryan but apparently he is retired? last I watched him or AEW was the match they done with Ospreay.
That's Tony Khan for you. When he gets mad at someone or doesn't want to use them, he just ghosts them by sending them home. I know getting paid for not working might have the dream for guys in the old days but these days when visibility on TV is everything, this can be more detrimental to wrestlers than people think. It's funny how people like to think of Tony as this 'saint of wrestling' though who only wants to do what's best for wrestlers and fans. Because I was reading the other day that he took injury time on Ray Fenix's contract after he heard he and Penta were WWE bound, just so he could push their WWE debut by 9 months or so eventhough he has no plans of using them. Talk about being petty.

Yes, Bryan's full-time career is over. He will be wrestling part-time...I'm guessing a handful of times a year on PPV. But he won't be an active wrestler any longer. They've been doing this angle where Moxley comes out and talks in riddles with the new BCC. Remains to be seen where it will go. Apparently Bryan wanted Moxley to be the one to end his full-time career so that is why we got this match.
 
That's Tony Khan for you. When he gets mad at someone or doesn't want to use them, he just ghosts them by sending them home. I know getting paid for not working might have the dream for guys in the old days but these days when visibility on TV is everything, this can be more detrimental to wrestlers than people think. It's funny how people like to think of Tony as this 'saint of wrestling' though who only wants to do what's best for wrestlers and fans. Because I was reading the other day that he took injury time on Ray Fenix's contract after he heard he and Penta were WWE bound, just so he could push their WWE debut by 9 months or so eventhough he has no plans of using them. Talk about being petty.

Yes, Bryan's full-time career is over. He will be wrestling part-time...I'm guessing a handful of times a year on PPV. But he won't be an active wrestler any longer. They've been doing this angle where Moxley comes out and talks in riddles with the new BCC. Remains to be seen where it will go. Apparently Bryan wanted Moxley to be the one to end his full-time career so that is why we got this match.

What’s the injury time thing, I’ve not read about it before ? I don’t know what their contracts are like, though I recall WWE use to have that 90 day non-compete, when your time was up at least you could go in peace. I wish Nick Khan knew when Punk’s contract was really up, the meltdown would have been fantastic. Tony Khan is more like a jealous ex then a business man dealing with the talent who are leaving him, it doesn’t send a good message to those in the locker room who are not necessarily a part of his cheerleading group. Is there any word on when Ricky Starks contract expires?

It’s a shame he did the job for Mox then, not sure he needed that but you may know better as you still follow the company
 
What’s the injury time thing, I’ve not read about it before ? I don’t know what their contracts are like, though I recall WWE use to have that 90 day non-compete, when your time was up at least you could go in peace. I wish Nick Khan knew when Punk’s contract was really up, the meltdown would have been fantastic. Tony Khan is more like a jealous ex then a business man dealing with the talent who are leaving him, it doesn’t send a good message to those in the locker room who are not necessarily a part of his cheerleading group. Is there any word on when Ricky Starks contract expires?

It’s a shame he did the job for Mox then, not sure he needed that but you may know better as you still follow the company

Its basically the time they have missed on their AEW contract due to injury. AEW has the option to extend contracts if wrestlers get injured in between. Normally if someone did this, they would use the said wrestler for this extended contract time. But Tony is content not using them at all as long as they are not in WWE. Which is so childish because they will be in WWE eventually anyway when the 9 months added due to injury end.

Yes. It would have been even better seeing Punk on RAW the week after All In.

No idea but I think he has some time remaining. The pathetic thing about Tony is that he is not even granting releases to certain wrestlers. Miro who hasn't wrestled in like a year asked for his release a month ago and hasn't been granted it so far. He seems to be obsessed with not letting WWE sign wrestlers he has no intention of pushing or using.

If this angle actually goes somewhere and leads to Darby being elevated then maybe Bryan doing the job will mean something. Right now it feels like Bryan wanting his friend to be the one to end his career.
 

Stumbled upon this on YouTube. All of Kane's title victories.

I feel like WWE should've given Kane more WWE title reigns. Also, a Royal Rumble win was missing.
 

Stumbled upon this on YouTube. All of Kane's title victories.

I feel like WWE should've given Kane more WWE title reigns. Also, a Royal Rumble win was missing.
Currently watching 1998 RAW and its amazing how well they executed Kane's debut and introduction into WWE. That gimmick and that look was unique and menacing. Like Taker, has many incarnations but nothing beats that first run with Paul Bearer.
 
Currently watching 1998 RAW and its amazing how well they executed Kane's debut and introduction into WWE. That gimmick and that look was unique and menacing. Like Taker, has many incarnations but nothing beats that first run with Paul Bearer.

Definitely.

Kane was a beast during those days.

I miss those days of wrestling. Everything felt awesome and natural.
 
He sabotaged Jericho’s push quiet a bit in those days to who was 10x more over, H was truly able to establish himself as backstage politician when Austin was injured, he didn’t want to put someone like him over at the time for the title either and he did the job for Mick instead who he respected a lot more. Then WM 2000 happened and that truly established him as a piece of sh!t and Backlash was not going to make up for what he did, though it did end up being arguably one of the best WM follow up events for them.

H was ok in that match with all the bells and whistles, but made to look like a million dollars not just then, but throughout the feud which would establish him as the WHC and he got Shawn to thank for that. Shawn came back like a miracle and it was maybe the best SS match ever? Shawn made me believe in pro-wrestling and suspend my disbelief in a way which nobody else could, I had that match on the HBK from the Vault DVD they put out right after his return. It’s mad to think his 2nd run was possibly more special then the 1st. If you’re watching archive stuff, I’d watch the HBK/Jericho feud from 2008 from right after WM 24, the feud starts then; every segment and match they were involved in were a masterpiece.
What was his role in WrestleMania 2000? Sorry I have very little knowledge about backstage stuff from that era. Re: Jericho, there is absolutely no doubt that he tried his very best to bury him multiple times. From the B.S title win they gave Jericho on RAW (which ended up being overturned) to Triple H completely burying his title reign by making the entire feud about Stephanie enroute to one of the most boring and lifeless Triple H main-event matches at WrestleMania.

I give more credit to H than you for the SummerSlam match. I thought they were both brilliant but Shawn admittedly was on a different level coming back from a career-ending injury to give that kind of a performance. It was like he barely missed a step. Hahah yes I think we've talked about that. That was probably my favorite Jericho gimmick and bah gawd what a memorable heel turn! As good as that feud was though for me their WrestleMania 19 match is the highlight of everything they have done together. Speaking of which that was a pretty underrated feud too where you had Jericho telling Shawn the real-life story of how he used to be Jericho's idol growing up.
 
Definitely.

Kane was a beast during those days.

I miss those days of wrestling. Everything felt awesome and natural.
The biggest thing that wrestling is missing nowadays is that sense of excitement. Everything feels too pre-planned and perfect and organized. That sense of chaos and unpredictability is gone. And you can't recreate it because it will never be the same as it once was.
 
The biggest thing that wrestling is missing nowadays is that sense of excitement. Everything feels too pre-planned and perfect and organized. That sense of chaos and unpredictability is gone. And you can't recreate it because it will never be the same as it once was.

I agree.

I think social media has also killed the fun of wrestling. WWE can no longer do edgy characters like they could do back in the days (cancel culture and whatnot).

Everything felt natural during those days. Things feel artificial now.
 
The finishing stretch in the HIAC match was pretty sick, but my favourite spot in the match was when Punk crawled to the top rope with the tool box, losing his footing and then giving Drew a big smack anyway and climbing the opposite post to hit him again. He lost his footing which sort of was sold as exhaustion, and then adapting right after with his shear hatred to hit Drew with it anyway and it built more anticipation for when he’d go back up again. I don’t know what you guys thought but I felt it was a really cool/twisted spot.

It reminded me a bit of Shawn v Razor 2 at SS, he struggled to hit the Sweet Chin Music off the ladder, but it kept building the anticipation and when it was finally nailed, it blew the roof off.
I quite enjoyed that spot lol. It's live TV, not everything is going to go perfectly according to plan. I thought he made a great adjustment on the fly.
 
I agree.

I think social media has also killed the fun of wrestling. WWE can no longer do edgy characters like they could do back in the days (cancel culture and whatnot).

Everything felt natural during those days. Things feel artificial now.
It was a different time. People didn't have such short attention spans and weren't being bombarded with content 24/7. Tuning in to watch a show on a Monday night was something people actually looked forward to. I don't agree that things feel artificial now. I think certain wrestlers are still doing great work that makes wrestling feel real and interesting. And tbf some of the stuff they were doing back then was pretty offensive, especially to women. But like I said, that sense of excitement was also there. The stars felt larger than life. All the arenas used to be filled with fans that were ready to explode at every RAW show..
 
What was his role in WrestleMania 2000? Sorry I have very little knowledge about backstage stuff from that era. Re: Jericho, there is absolutely no doubt that he tried his very best to bury him multiple times. From the B.S title win they gave Jericho on RAW (which ended up being overturned) to Triple H completely burying his title reign by making the entire feud about Stephanie enroute to one of the most boring and lifeless Triple H main-event matches at WrestleMania.

I give more credit to H than you for the SummerSlam match. I thought they were both brilliant but Shawn admittedly was on a different level coming back from a career-ending injury to give that kind of a performance. It was like he barely missed a step. Hahah yes I think we've talked about that. That was probably my favorite Jericho gimmick and bah gawd what a memorable heel turn! As good as that feud was though for me their WrestleMania 19 match is the highlight of everything they have done together. Speaking of which that was a pretty underrated feud too where you had Jericho telling Shawn the real-life story of how he used to be Jericho's idol growing up.

Austin was out and that allowed a couple of things to happen, one of them was H being able to manoeuvre himself into a championship spot and the second, most important for the future of the company, I think was the rise of the rock, his profile grew to an astronomical level and he became as over as Austin 1999-2000, The Rock effectively took Austin’s lead baby face spot and everything was geared towards a big WHC win at WM 2000, H had a lot of heat, aligning with Steph etc, whispers of his backstage influence growing and Austin not exactly respecting that either, but nobody could have predicted at the time that Rock wouldn’t go over at WM 2000, just look at the reaction after the match, that burial about par with the Booker T one.

I give Shawn majority of the credit because I rarely see H in a classic without a great worker or in some gimmick match and especially after the long lay off, and it was probably H’s best match in 2002 up until the SS event as well, but I give him credit for not working too stiff and dealing with the pressure of taking care of his friend in the ring when Shawn’s mom was crying backstage about her son going through it all again. Yes! I watched that WM 19 match live on cable, it was like watching two wrestling poets and the storyline was brilliant, in-fact it was recycled so many times after that by other wrestlers, I’d have to watch all the matches again to compare but certainly it was a special match and another reminder of why we all loved Jericho and how he was a genuine visionary of the industry.

Makes me sad to see what one of my all time favourites has become, he has literally turned into everything described in Fozzy’s ‘enemy’ song.
 
Austin was out and that allowed a couple of things to happen, one of them was H being able to manoeuvre himself into a championship spot and the second, most important for the future of the company, I think was the rise of the rock, his profile grew to an astronomical level and he became as over as Austin 1999-2000, The Rock effectively took Austin’s lead baby face spot and everything was geared towards a big WHC win at WM 2000, H had a lot of heat, aligning with Steph etc, whispers of his backstage influence growing and Austin not exactly respecting that either, but nobody could have predicted at the time that Rock wouldn’t go over at WM 2000, just look at the reaction after the match, that burial about par with the Booker T one.

I give Shawn majority of the credit because I rarely see H in a classic without a great worker or in some gimmick match and especially after the long lay off, and it was probably H’s best match in 2002 up until the SS event as well, but I give him credit for not working too stiff and dealing with the pressure of taking care of his friend in the ring when Shawn’s mom was crying backstage about her son going through it all again. Yes! I watched that WM 19 match live on cable, it was like watching two wrestling poets and the storyline was brilliant, in-fact it was recycled so many times after that by other wrestlers, I’d have to watch all the matches again to compare but certainly it was a special match and another reminder of why we all loved Jericho and how he was a genuine visionary of the industry.

Makes me sad to see what one of my all time favourites has become, he has literally turned into everything described in Fozzy’s ‘enemy’ song.
That doesn't surprise me considering Triple H's reputation. I'll be up to 2000 soon so I'll be seeing that stuff soon.

Yes this was one of the highpoints of Jericho's career for me. There was this Shawn feud, there was the Christian feud. He even got a good match out of Goldberg! He used to be one of my Top 5 wrestlers too. You would excited to see what Jericho was coming up with next. I even enjoyed The List stuff and his whole storyline with Kevin Owens. But for the last three years or so, he has become an absolute joke. It has come to a point where he has go-away heat even among the AEW die-hards. The moment he comes on people start groaning. He hasn't come up with anything good or original in ages and his matches suck because he's old, fat and can't move.
 
That doesn't surprise me considering Triple H's reputation. I'll be up to 2000 soon so I'll be seeing that stuff soon.

Yes this was one of the highpoints of Jericho's career for me. There was this Shawn feud, there was the Christian feud. He even got a good match out of Goldberg! He used to be one of my Top 5 wrestlers too. You would excited to see what Jericho was coming up with next. I even enjoyed The List stuff and his whole storyline with Kevin Owens. But for the last three years or so, he has become an absolute joke. It has come to a point where he has go-away heat even among the AEW die-hards. The moment he comes on people start groaning. He hasn't come up with anything good or original in ages and his matches suck because he's old, fat and can't move.

On the flip side the following Backlash from 2000’s interest went through the roof, I remember watching a recording at a friends in 2003 some years later, he said he recorded it all live at the time, everybody wanted the wrong done at WM 2000 overturned and it was a true crowning of The Rock as the man, WM 2000 was the first time a heel had ever gone over in the main event.

Outside that short blip around 04-05 due to you know who, everything he done, be it ECW, WCW or the WWF/E was just must see and you looked forward to what he was going to come up with next. I still admire him and all the childhood memories, and I think for a few years he was great for AEW as well and not so long ago got a great match out of Ospreay and maybe 1 or 2 other people when he is motivated. But he has become everything he hated in the industry and is happy to get that Khan money / knows how to manipulate that gullible fool, but is it worth it, you were an artist, a true master between the ropes…..and now a true master politician…
 
On the flip side the following Backlash from 2000’s interest went through the roof, I remember watching a recording at a friends in 2003 some years later, he said he recorded it all live at the time, everybody wanted the wrong done at WM 2000 overturned and it was a true crowning of The Rock as the man, WM 2000 was the first time a heel had ever gone over in the main event.

Outside that short blip around 04-05 due to you know who, everything he done, be it ECW, WCW or the WWF/E was just must see and you looked forward to what he was going to come up with next. I still admire him and all the childhood memories, and I think for a few years he was great for AEW as well and not so long ago got a great match out of Ospreay and maybe 1 or 2 other people when he is motivated. But he has become everything he hated in the industry and is happy to get that Khan money / knows how to manipulate that gullible fool, but is it worth it, you were an artist, a true master between the ropes…..and now a true master politician…
Spot on. He has become the very thing he hated. On top of that he has developed this deluded idea in his head that he is helping young talent when im reality he is doing is trying to stay relevant by latching on to them.
 
Good to see Shelton Benjamin in AEW. A talent of his caliber deserved better than to be booked like a jobber. Even if he just has great matches in his entire run I would be happy. I think he still has alot to offer the business and young guys could learn alot from him if they are willing to listen. Looking forward to Shelton v Swerve. I'm assuming Lashley's debut isn't far either.
 
@shaz619 Never meet your heroes 🤦‍♂️


Hopefully Cornette will have a field day ripping them to shreds

I mean I agree with Cornette and you might disagree with me here, but I pay little attention to what these heroes do behind the scenes, what Taker has left between the ropes for me will forever supersede everything else and when stuff like this pops up, I will go back to what he did for me as a fan and I think The Last Ride series captures that
 
I mean I agree with Cornette and you might disagree with me here, but I pay little attention to what these heroes do behind the scenes, what Taker has left between the ropes for me will forever supersede everything else and when stuff like this pops up, I will go back to what he did for me as a fan and I think The Last Ride series captures that
No denying that. Definitely doesn't change my love for his work and what he's done for the business. But it's just disappointing to see someone you admire expose themself as such a moron intellectually. And like why take shots at Batista? A guy who you guided, worked with and who has nothing but respect for you?
 
No denying that. Definitely doesn't change my love for his work and what he's done for the business. But it's just disappointing to see someone you admire expose themself as such a moron intellectually. And like why take shots at Batista? A guy who you guided, worked with and who has nothing but respect for you?

Honestly a lot of these guys have suspect views, but my love for what they’ve done for me & the business supersedes all, this is why we are a unique breed as wrestling fans. I wont exactly agree with what they’re doing but am like yeah whatever and more inclined to go after the people outside the loop, though my admiration for Punk, Batista etc and respect for their values magnifies
 
It's amazing how spectacularly Okada has failed in AEW. Not only has he failed to adapt his style in any way to North American TV wrestling. He also just doesn't seem to give a f***. His work has gotten lazy and he seems to be content with just getting by with his one catchphrase. Really disappointing to see one of the great stars of Japanese wrestling just give up like this and be happy to take the paycheck.
 
It's amazing how spectacularly Okada has failed in AEW. Not only has he failed to adapt his style in any way to North American TV wrestling. He also just doesn't seem to give a f***. His work has gotten lazy and he seems to be content with just getting by with his one catchphrase. Really disappointing to see one of the great stars of Japanese wrestling just give up like this and be happy to take the paycheck.

He’s basically a victim of the set-up, he’s in a turbulent environment which hasn’t really presented him well and that will reflect in his work, you can say that about a lot of guys on their roster. Like come on, they aligned him with those two thicko’s and had him doing comedy, I will never forget they had him show up on TV looking like someone lost of the streets. Most talent go there and stay mainly for the cheque and it’s a reflection on Tony Khan and where AEW is, though I did enjoy clips showing the debut of Lashley and the return of the Hurt Business; Trips done these guys dirty and most black wrestlers.

I don’t watch a lot now, it’s quiet sad. But I always will tune in to see what Punk is doing because he’s the last throwback worker in wrestling today and is best equipped to make old school wrestling work in a modern setting with his creativity. There’s Gunther as well I suppose, but Punk is operating on another level, he is cementing his ATG pedigree and I hope by the time this current run is over, more folk should have him in their top 10 all time list, and that’s me being strict because I know a lot of WWE fans wouldn’t have seen the work he did for AEW which was phenomenal while he was there.
 
Also, I miss Charlotte Flair 🙁, none of these women are fit to lace her boots @RedwoodOriginal , male or female I loved to watch her work. Punk & Charlotte are the ones for me.
 
He’s basically a victim of the set-up, he’s in a turbulent environment which hasn’t really presented him well and that will reflect in his work, you can say that about a lot of guys on their roster. Like come on, they aligned him with those two thicko’s and had him doing comedy, I will never forget they had him show up on TV looking like someone lost of the streets. Most talent go there and stay mainly for the cheque and it’s a reflection on Tony Khan and where AEW is, though I did enjoy clips showing the debut of Lashley and the return of the Hurt Business; Trips done these guys dirty and most black wrestlers.

I don’t watch a lot now, it’s quiet sad. But I always will tune in to see what Punk is doing because he’s the last throwback worker in wrestling today and is best equipped to make old school wrestling work in a modern setting with his creativity. There’s Gunther as well I suppose, but Punk is operating on another level, he is cementing his ATG pedigree and I hope by the time this current run is over, more folk should have him in their top 10 all time list, and that’s me being strict because I know a lot of WWE fans wouldn’t have seen the work he did for AEW which was phenomenal while he was there.
I think Okada deserves some blame too. Punk was in AEW too but his focus was always on elevating the show and making it better. Okada comes across as someone who has just given up.

Bro I have to give them full-credit for the Hurt Business. I had zero hopes but everything they have done with those guys (including the Lashley debut) has been absolutely brilliant. Probably because its MVP who is booking the whole thing, instead of Tony. You got Shelton having Brock Lesnar matches against guys like Sammy Guevara and it works because he looks like Lesnar compared to most of their roster lol. And this feud with Swerve has been really well-executed too.

Triple H had a golden opportunity to right Vince's wrong by bringing back the Hurt Business. But his response was putting Lashley in a midcard stable with the Street Profits and taking MVP off TV. That stable was capable of being on-par with the Judgement Day and Bloodline. And I think there may be something to what you're saying about Trips. Swerve is another guy who was saying some very similar things to what Lashley and MVP were saying recently. Credit to all of them for knowing how good they are and betting on themselves. It's just a shame they happen to work for a company like AEW.
 
I think Okada deserves some blame too. Punk was in AEW too but his focus was always on elevating the show and making it better. Okada comes across as someone who has just given up.

Bro I have to give them full-credit for the Hurt Business. I had zero hopes but everything they have done with those guys (including the Lashley debut) has been absolutely brilliant. Probably because its MVP who is booking the whole thing, instead of Tony. You got Shelton having Brock Lesnar matches against guys like Sammy Guevara and it works because he looks like Lesnar compared to most of their roster lol. And this feud with Swerve has been really well-executed too.

Triple H had a golden opportunity to right Vince's wrong by bringing back the Hurt Business. But his response was putting Lashley in a midcard stable with the Street Profits and taking MVP off TV. That stable was capable of being on-par with the Judgement Day and Bloodline. And I think there may be something to what you're saying about Trips. Swerve is another guy who was saying some very similar things to what Lashley and MVP were saying recently. Credit to all of them for knowing how good they are and betting on themselves. It's just a shame they happen to work for a company like AEW.

I am less critical of him because he’s a foreigner and I would never see him in that Punk type role, but as a booker I’d have him in my main event scene consistently and present him like the star he deserves to be. Like remember, Gado has done shows with Okada at MSG which were hugely successful and I think even TNA booked him a bit better, I think foreign talent need some more attention in a new market, especially if you want them on TV every week, though I get what you’re saying with his attitude but others have got more out of it and that laid back mindset has worked really well for him in the ring because he makes everything look so effortless.

Yes am surprised by how well they’ve set the reunion up really and I’ve seen clips of the Shelton Benjamin matches (weirdly am involved in a storyline with him in SvR I was just playing yesterday 20 years later its nuts), Benjamin is like the most under utilised modern wrestler ever. Anyway the set up was so good you could be fooled for thinking it was a WWE show, they had a few more people in as well, what happened there? lol

Yes the guy has a huge ego and is a closet racist, have you read about him getting all butt hurt about Samantha Irvin’s comments, they were nothing bad but he got upset. He had every chance to get the most of them and they obviously were a draw and the fans wanted them back but he refused, I don’t really see him doing anything special with WWE, the company is set up so strong now with a robust structure that it runs itself bro, Trips is just cosplaying Vince…
 
Also, I miss Charlotte Flair 🙁, none of these women are fit to lace her boots @RedwoodOriginal , male or female I loved to watch her work. Punk & Charlotte are the ones for me.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I think she is the greatest female wrestler to come out of North America by a country mile. She is completely in a league of her own.

It's funny to me now that people used to compare Mercedes to her once. Her AEW run has completely exposed her on the mic. and in the ring.
 
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