The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Speaking of TNA, what are your thoughts on their infamous Aces & Eights angle? I know TNA has become a punchline on the internet now, but for all their missteps and eff ups, they did do some really cool stuff from time to time that alot of people tend to look past. And the Aces & Eights storyline is definitely one for me. 2012 was probably the best year of TNA in my opinion. From Joker Sting to Aries winning the belt and this storyline, there's a lot of underrated stuff there. Given Bischoff's fetish for motorcycles and the fact that he ever came up with one good idea: the nWo, I'm sure this idea wasn't difficult for him to come up with this. And ofcourse by the end it went to s**t like just about everything else TNA did. But for a significant period of time, it was pretty cool and contributed to generating interest in the TNA brand for the first time in forever.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Gotta say I feel bad for AEW.

First it was just Punk and Cole that were out injured.

Since then, Bryan Danielson has joined them.

On top of that, now Kyle O'Reilly and Buddy Mathews are out too. MJF is out in kayfabe. Joe is injured in kayfabe.

Omega has been injured since last year.

Really hope this show doesn't revert back to 2020 AEW in the absence of these guys. Because that might be hard to bear for me personally.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Speaking of TNA, what are your thoughts on their infamous Aces & Eights angle? I know TNA has become a punchline on the internet now, but for all their missteps and eff ups, they did do some really cool stuff from time to time that alot of people tend to look past. And the Aces & Eights storyline is definitely one for me. 2012 was probably the best year of TNA in my opinion. From Joker Sting to Aries winning the belt and this storyline, there's a lot of underrated stuff there. Given Bischoff's fetish for motorcycles and the fact that he ever came up with one good idea: the nWo, I'm sure this idea wasn't difficult for him to come up with this. And ofcourse by the end it went to s**t like just about everything else TNA did. But for a significant period of time, it was pretty cool and contributed to generating interest in the TNA brand for the first time in forever.

I gave them a chance but tuned out by 2011 or so and a big part of that was Hogan and Biscoff, plus I understand Jeff had given up his stake and creative influence in the company to, while he with his family background was booking the product was a breath of fresh air for a long time but moving of Nashville, going on the road and bringing in the guys who plagued WCW at the end was the final straw and the E around the same time restored a bit of edge to the programming as they moved a way ever so slightly from the PG era. I didn’t miss the Joker stuff though, one of Sting’s greatest incarnations. TNA or should I say IMPACT may be a punchbag now but for the best part of 7 or 8 years from their inception were a great alternative

 

[shaz619]

Gotta say I feel bad for AEW.

First it was just Punk and Cole that were out injured.

Since then, Bryan Danielson has joined them.

On top of that, now Kyle O'Reilly and Buddy Mathews are out too. MJF is out in kayfabe. Joe is injured in kayfabe.

Omega has been injured since last year.

Really hope this show doesn't revert back to 2020 AEW in the absence of these guys. Because that might be hard to bear for me personally.

I remember us discussing Bryan’s signing and this was one of my fears, Bryan is his own worst enemy and in his own words, Vince was protecting him and evidently, for good reason. AEW landscape it’s just a recipe for disaster unless he’s willing to take certain concessions in the ring.

While I stopped watching TNA more regular in the early 2010’s, I’d come back for high profile matches or stars or something to entice me and one of those was Lashley v Angle, in what would be Angle’s fine world title win, it’s a shame around that time the opportunistic PWI stripped impact from world championship status but that match was world class and delivered massively, if you watched Kurt in WWE after that, he was considerably slower out the gates and struggling for pace, WWE fast tracked that in ring decline by keeping him inactive. Kurt doesn’t know how to stop and while it may not have been ideal for fans it’s one of the best things the company has ever done for him, it took out the fight in him and opened his eyes to a world without a ring career, not easy to do for an Olympian and especially with all the struggles he had throughout his career which would finish 90% of people. I don’t know if Bryan should retire but health comes first and he seriously needs to reconsider his position.

As for the rest of the injuries it’s a shame, imagine they were on the road it would be a catastrophe. There needs to be some serious discussions surrounding how talent work in the ring and even more-so when their dates are limited.

The build to forbidden door has been so muddled and the stuff out the ring is no excuse, the NJPW title match is a wreck and man I was fuming at how poorly executed Okada’s debut was, and the action which followed up lacked any intensity at all, I don’t know if it was due to injuries or whatever but that wasn’t great at all and for a high profile event, it’s a shame. Nakamura I have got the criticism that you know he should be at the top or whatever but whenever I’ve seen him on TV, he has always been presented like a star, now he’s arguably the most charismatic star to come out of Japan but even then, that was a poor segment and booking should have a word with themselves, you got one of the biggest stars in wrestling and made him look very ordinary, how is that possible….

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Christian Cage cut an unreal promo on Dynamite this week. Its the kind of promo that's probably going to be very divisive based on a particular 20 second long part at the end. And will inevitably bring up the 'how far is going too far?' question. But whatever your opinion may be on that 20 second part, the rest of the promo was one of the most incredible heel promos you're likely to see. Not only was it grounded in logic but it had elements that attracted nuclear heat.

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] really interested in getting your thoughts on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTZQ7l-sWiU

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I remember us discussing BryanÂ’s signing and this was one of my fears, Bryan is his own worst enemy and in his own words, Vince was protecting him and evidently, for good reason. AEW landscape itÂ’s just a recipe for disaster unless heÂ’s willing to take certain concessions in the ring.

While I stopped watching TNA more regular in the early 2010Â’s, IÂ’d come back for high profile matches or stars or something to entice me and one of those was Lashley v Angle, in what would be AngleÂ’s fine world title win, itÂ’s a shame around that time the opportunistic PWI stripped impact from world championship status but that match was world class and delivered massively, if you watched Kurt in WWE after that, he was considerably slower out the gates and struggling for pace, WWE fast tracked that in ring decline by keeping him inactive. Kurt doesnÂ’t know how to stop and while it may not have been ideal for fans itÂ’s one of the best things the company has ever done for him, it took out the fight in him and opened his eyes to a world without a ring career, not easy to do for an Olympian and especially with all the struggles he had throughout his career which would finish 90% of people. I donÂ’t know if Bryan should retire but health comes first and he seriously needs to reconsider his position.

As for the rest of the injuries itÂ’s a shame, imagine they were on the road it would be a catastrophe. There needs to be some serious discussions surrounding how talent work in the ring and even more-so when their dates are limited.

The build to forbidden door has been so muddled and the stuff out the ring is no excuse, the NJPW title match is a wreck and man I was fuming at how poorly executed OkadaÂ’s debut was, and the action which followed up lacked any intensity at all, I donÂ’t know if it was due to injuries or whatever but that wasnÂ’t great at all and for a high profile event, itÂ’s a shame. Nakamura I have got the criticism that you know he should be at the top or whatever but whenever IÂ’ve seen him on TV, he has always been presented like a star, now heÂ’s arguably the most charismatic star to come out of Japan but even then, that was a poor segment and booking should have a word with themselves, you got one of the biggest stars in wrestling and made him look very ordinary, how is that possibleÂ….

The somewhat positive news is that he has said that the injury is not concussion related. At the end of the day though, we don't know the full story. My only hope is that he is smart and knows what he is doing. With his particular history of injuries, he really needs to be really careful. So yeah I just hope that he knows what he is doing.

Yeah I agree. And I think they have done a really terrible job of introducing/explaining the New Japan guys to AEW audiences who may not necessarily watch every match of the G1 Climax or seek out every 5.25 star rated New Japan match.

The worst thing is that you have that mark in the mask Excalibur on play-by-play essentially being a mark. He is blurting out obscure historical facts about New Japan guys, that some of the audiences have probably seen for the first time. Or he is calling moves non-stop at 2.0 playback speed. He is so caught up in being a mark that he doesn't take the time to realize that he has zero appeal to anyone who isn't a hardcore fan. Because its hard to see him as anything more than a mark.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I remember us discussing Bryan’s signing and this was one of my fears, Bryan is his own worst enemy and in his own words, Vince was protecting him and evidently, for good reason. AEW landscape it’s just a recipe for disaster unless he’s willing to take certain concessions in the ring.

While I stopped watching TNA more regular in the early 2010’s, I’d come back for high profile matches or stars or something to entice me and one of those was Lashley v Angle, in what would be Angle’s fine world title win, it’s a shame around that time the opportunistic PWI stripped impact from world championship status but that match was world class and delivered massively, if you watched Kurt in WWE after that, he was considerably slower out the gates and struggling for pace, WWE fast tracked that in ring decline by keeping him inactive. Kurt doesn’t know how to stop and while it may not have been ideal for fans it’s one of the best things the company has ever done for him, it took out the fight in him and opened his eyes to a world without a ring career, not easy to do for an Olympian and especially with all the struggles he had throughout his career which would finish 90% of people. I don’t know if Bryan should retire but health comes first and he seriously needs to reconsider his position.

As for the rest of the injuries it’s a shame, imagine they were on the road it would be a catastrophe. There needs to be some serious discussions surrounding how talent work in the ring and even more-so when their dates are limited.

The build to forbidden door has been so muddled and the stuff out the ring is no excuse, the NJPW title match is a wreck and man I was fuming at how poorly executed Okada’s debut was, and the action which followed up lacked any intensity at all, I don’t know if it was due to injuries or whatever but that wasn’t great at all and for a high profile event, it’s a shame. Nakamura I have got the criticism that you know he should be at the top or whatever but whenever I’ve seen him on TV, he has always been presented like a star, now he’s arguably the most charismatic star to come out of Japan but even then, that was a poor segment and booking should have a word with themselves, you got one of the biggest stars in wrestling and made him look very ordinary, how is that possible….

They've totally diluted Okada by putting him in a Fatal 4 Way match. His debut in AEW could have been quite memorable but instead he feels like an afterthought. I'm fairly certain that he brought him in after the Danielson injury. Because they said numerous times on commentary and during promos that he was not going to appear at the event.

Btw you think Cesaro is coming in to AEW? That's the guy I thought Bryan was alluding to in his promo. It'll be funny if he uses the name CSRO that he trademarked recently. But I do thin he is someone that any wrestling promotion in the world would be lucky to have on their roster. Plus I think he could fit in well to the Blackpool Combat Club with Mox, Bryan, Yuta and Regal.

But then again, it could easily be someone else too. Whoever it is, has to beat Zack Sabre though because it makes no sense to beat someone in their first match, especially someone who is debuting on a high-profile PPV.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Christian Cage cut an unreal promo on Dynamite this week. Its the kind of promo that's probably going to be very divisive based on a particular 20 second long part at the end. And will inevitably bring up the 'how far is going too far?' question. But whatever your opinion may be on that 20 second part, the rest of the promo was one of the most incredible heel promos you're likely to see. Not only was it grounded in logic but it had elements that attracted nuclear heat.

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] really interested in getting your thoughts on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTZQ7l-sWiU

Well Christian has always been a great promo. Him and Edge are extremely articulate and are able to put a lot of believable emotion there. I found the turtle neck quite funny though (a heel outfit presumably )

But pretty sure this last part was just for marks for added heat. MJF did that to Brian Pillman Jr as well. The crowd popped massively when MJF called tony an effin mark. like wth! The so called "hardcore fans" take immense joy when someone says stuff that goes beyond the boundaries of kayfabe. Plus I have witnessed loud pops for comebacks as juvenile as referring to someone by their real name. (Ruby calling Britt Britney, Miz calling Mcintyre Andy, extremely stupid stuff that IMO)

 

[BunnyRabbit]

They've totally diluted Okada by putting him in a Fatal 4 Way match. His debut in AEW could have been quite memorable but instead he feels like an afterthought. I'm fairly certain that he brought him in after the Danielson injury. Because they said numerous times on commentary and during promos that he was not going to appear at the event.

Btw you think Cesaro is coming in to AEW? That's the guy I thought Bryan was alluding to in his promo. It'll be funny if he uses the name CSRO that he trademarked recently. But I do thin he is someone that any wrestling promotion in the world would be lucky to have on their roster. Plus I think he could fit in well to the Blackpool Combat Club with Mox, Bryan, Yuta and Regal.

But then again, it could easily be someone else too. Whoever it is, has to beat Zack Sabre though because it makes no sense to beat someone in their first match, especially someone who is debuting on a high-profile PPV.

They couldn't have ruined Okada's debut worse than that on top of putting him in a nonsensical 4 way match. Could have just put him in a singles match without a title. Plus Hangman isn't an Okada level guy as simple as that.

Although I do think Cesaro is going to be debuting, but it could be a nice twist if it's a returning Samoa Joe. Fits that BCC intensity and is one of Regal's guys.

And Tony destroyed Ospreay's debut as well in addition to giving him Cassidy of all the talent he had at his disposal. Ospreay vs Pac would have been much better.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Well Christian has always been a great promo. Him and Edge are extremely articulate and are able to put a lot of believable emotion there. I found the turtle neck quite funny though (a heel outfit presumably )

But pretty sure this last part was just for marks for added heat. MJF did that to Brian Pillman Jr as well. The crowd popped massively when MJF called tony an effin mark. like wth! The so called "hardcore fans" take immense joy when someone says stuff that goes beyond the boundaries of kayfabe. Plus I have witnessed loud pops for comebacks as juvenile as referring to someone by their real name. (Ruby calling Britt Britney, Miz calling Mcintyre Andy, extremely stupid stuff that IMO)

I agree with you that, that last bit was cheap heat. But personally I don't have that much of an issue with it. Personally I'd take that over any promo that feels fake or choreographed. And there's too much of those these days.

Christian has always been a really underrated heel. I find him to be very believable. I mean just his delivery...its so good. And even stuff like wearing that turtleneck. It just fits haha.

His feuds with Jericho and Orton in WWE gave him a chance to showcase that dastardly side of his. But in AEW thus far he was largely underutilized and hadn't done anything of note barring that feud with Omega. So I am glad that he didn't just show that side but also covered why he has barely wrestled in the last 8 months or so.

As for the MJF calling Tony a mark bit, I see that as MJF telling the truth. And the fans popped because they knew it was true too. Christian had alot of elements of truth here aswell when he talked about the 'wrestling corner' of the internet lol. Personally, I like it. Because at the end of the day we are living in an age where the fans (particularly in this company) know everything. So you have to get creative to get a proper reaction out of this crowd. And besides, heels should be telling the truth about 85% of the time anyway. It's just the 15% of the time that their perception of reality should be seriously twisted or effed up.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

They couldn't have ruined Okada's debut worse than that on top of putting him in a nonsensical 4 way match. Could have just put him in a singles match without a title. Plus Hangman isn't an Okada level guy as simple as that.

Although I do think Cesaro is going to be debuting, but it could be a nice twist if it's a returning Samoa Joe. Fits that BCC intensity and is one of Regal's guys.

And Tony destroyed Ospreay's debut as well in addition to giving him Cassidy of all the talent he had at his disposal. Ospreay vs Pac would have been much better.

Honestly, I wouldn't have minded if Cole was in there too. But four guys is way too much. And on top of that they've introduced him after this feud has already been going on for a couple of weeks which makes him feel like such an afterthought. If this was how they were going to bring him in I would have preferred it if they didn't bring him in at all. It would have been better if they postponed his debut to another time. Because now they've totally watered him down for people who are seeing him for the first time.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

They couldn't have ruined Okada's debut worse than that on top of putting him in a nonsensical 4 way match. Could have just put him in a singles match without a title. Plus Hangman isn't an Okada level guy as simple as that.

Although I do think Cesaro is going to be debuting, but it could be a nice twist if it's a returning Samoa Joe. Fits that BCC intensity and is one of Regal's guys.

And Tony destroyed Ospreay's debut as well in addition to giving him Cassidy of all the talent he had at his disposal. Ospreay vs Pac would have been much better.

Unpopular opinion but I'm really looking forward to this match. I know what most people think that Cassidy is a gimmick and a comedy wrestler. And he is. But he has a real connection with that audience too that can't be discounted and I've almost always enjoyed him. On top of that he can wrestle too and you know that Ospreay is going to try his hardest to have the absolute best match that he can out there. If anything, Ospreay is going to see this as a challenge. So personally, I am intrigued to see how this turns out.

With Joe I'd personally prefer if he wasn't aligned with anyone. Because that fits much better with the killer that he is and has been presented as since his ROH days. The benefit of putting Cesaro in there is that (a) he's a really great technical wrestler which fits perfectly with the gimmick of their group and (b) he a really bad promo so you can have Regal do his talking.

 

[shaz619]

The somewhat positive news is that he has said that the injury is not concussion related. At the end of the day though, we don't know the full story. My only hope is that he is smart and knows what he is doing. With his particular history of injuries, he really needs to be really careful. So yeah I just hope that he knows what he is doing.

Yeah I agree. And I think they have done a really terrible job of introducing/explaining the New Japan guys to AEW audiences who may not necessarily watch every match of the G1 Climax or seek out every 5.25 star rated New Japan match.

The worst thing is that you have that mark in the mask Excalibur on play-by-play essentially being a mark. He is blurting out obscure historical facts about New Japan guys, that some of the audiences have probably seen for the first time. Or he is calling moves non-stop at 2.0 playback speed. He is so caught up in being a mark that he doesn't take the time to realize that he has zero appeal to anyone who isn't a hardcore fan. Because its hard to see him as anything more than a mark.

They've totally diluted Okada by putting him in a Fatal 4 Way match. His debut in AEW could have been quite memorable but instead he feels like an afterthought. I'm fairly certain that he brought him in after the Danielson injury. Because they said numerous times on commentary and during promos that he was not going to appear at the event.

Btw you think Cesaro is coming in to AEW? That's the guy I thought Bryan was alluding to in his promo. It'll be funny if he uses the name CSRO that he trademarked recently. But I do thin he is someone that any wrestling promotion in the world would be lucky to have on their roster. Plus I think he could fit in well to the Blackpool Combat Club with Mox, Bryan, Yuta and Regal.

But then again, it could easily be someone else too. Whoever it is, has to beat Zack Sabre though because it makes no sense to beat someone in their first match, especially someone who is debuting on a high-profile PPV.

With Bryan I don’t have much confidence in him doing the right thing ring wise, he loves the business too much and he wants to push himself to the absolute limit, in a set up which will allow that, I fear he will continue. This goes back to the independent scene in the 2000’s sadly. One positive here is that, at least the AEW medical picked up on this and it’s really up to Bryan now, he is experienced enough to know what the best thing is, will he forget his ego? am not sure, but I hope this is a big reality check with him. I feel it is concussion related but they are keeping it under wraps due to the backlash the company would get given what a big star he is.

Excalibre boils my blood he hasn’t adjusted at all, he just assumes we all know everything, does very little to add any value on commentary.

The four way could be designed to protect these guys who are not 100% perhaps I don’t know but the interactions on TV and striking were all very weak, it was one big hot mess. If Okada himself isn’t 100, I rather he not work. They could have used him in some post match angle etc anyway the dude should have been made to look like a bad@ss, the event as a whole could have been built better.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Cesaro did show up and he would be a welcome addition to the roster, I rarely speculate on surprises now or try to avoid the dirt, enjoy the wrestling more. But a part of me would mark out at the idea of William Regal lacing his boots one more time!

 

[shaz619]

Christian Cage cut an unreal promo on Dynamite this week. Its the kind of promo that's probably going to be very divisive based on a particular 20 second long part at the end. And will inevitably bring up the 'how far is going too far?' question. But whatever your opinion may be on that 20 second part, the rest of the promo was one of the most incredible heel promos you're likely to see. Not only was it grounded in logic but it had elements that attracted nuclear heat.

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] really interested in getting your thoughts on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTZQ7l-sWiU

It’s a good promo and it achieved its goal, but sometimes I feel when things get taken a bit too far, it can take away from the promo. MJF is the best heel on the mic right now because he is able to evicerate you without having to go all the way down. Am not a huge fan of dead people being used to elevate an angle, I wonder if Meltzer will pick this as his most disgusting promotional tactic at the annual WON awards….

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

With Bryan I don’t have much confidence in him doing the right thing ring wise, he loves the business too much and he wants to push himself to the absolute limit, in a set up which will allow that, I fear he will continue. This goes back to the independent scene in the 2000’s sadly. One positive here is that, at least the AEW medical picked up on this and it’s really up to Bryan now, he is experienced enough to know what the best thing is, will he forget his ego? am not sure, but I hope this is a big reality check with him. I feel it is concussion related but they are keeping it under wraps due to the backlash the company would get given what a big star he is.

Excalibre boils my blood he hasn’t adjusted at all, he just assumes we all know everything, does very little to add any value on commentary.

The four way could be designed to protect these guys who are not 100% perhaps I don’t know but the interactions on TV and striking were all very weak, it was one big hot mess. If Okada himself isn’t 100, I rather he not work. They could have used him in some post match angle etc anyway the dude should have been made to look like a bad@ss, the event as a whole could have been built better.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Cesaro did show up and he would be a welcome addition to the roster, I rarely speculate on surprises now or try to avoid the dirt, enjoy the wrestling more. But a part of me would mark out at the idea of William Regal lacing his boots one more time!

Yeah I think you're right. Initially I heard that the injury wasn't concussion related. But now it seems like it is. Because they've been conspicuous in their silence about the nature of the injury.

When Bryan came in he talked about how he wanted to wrestle everywhere from New Japan to PWG to DEFY. But with this injury I seriously think he should reconsider doing that. He has a very high chance of getting concussed again, especially in New Japan because we all know perfectly well how stiff most of their guys are. I mean its called 'strong style' for a reason. On top of that we both know that if he's in the ring with their guys he is going to bring it 100% because, as you noted, that's the only way he knows how to wrestle. And that is where something can go wrong. The same goes for PWG. I really don't think its worth it for a guy like Bryan to go out there and have indierific matches for Excalibur's mark promotion infront of 60 people and risk serious injuries that could be life-threatening.

If you gotta do it, be smart and just doe the dream matches. And there are maybe a handful of dream them to be had between Bryan and guys that don't wrestle in AEW. Most guys in this business aren't fit to carry his bags. And on top of that there is also no need for him to elevate every no name indie talent that might be good 10 years from now.

Ooh I don't know about that man. Did you hear Regal talk on Jericho podcast? Because for me atleast that was an eye-opening podcast to hear. From what Regal says, he has had multiple heart surgeries including and open heart surgery in 2019 that almost took his life. On top of that he mentioned how he essentially wrestled with a broken neck for 12 or so years without even knowing it! and how his history of addiction has had his effects on him aswell. The podcast was originally supposed to be about a number of things but it ended up just being entirely about Regal's history of health issues. So I think its probably best if he is kept as far away from the ring as possible.

I do think its fitting though that Regal's last match in the ring was against Cesaro in NXT back in 2013. If he does come in, than it gives Regal something to talk about regarding their association. The same way he talked about his feud with Moxley in FCW and his general history with Bryan.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It’s a good promo and it achieved its goal, but sometimes I feel when things get taken a bit too far, it can take away from the promo. MJF is the best heel on the mic right now because he is able to evicerate you without having to go all the way down. Am not a huge fan of dead people being used to elevate an angle, I wonder if Meltzer will pick this as his most disgusting promotional tactic at the annual WON awards….

Yeah I think that's a very legitimate criticism. The only saving grace, that probably distinguishes if from Orton saying Eddie was in hell, is that he didn't make any remarks about his father's character.

Well to be fair, MJF did short just stop from saying pretty much the same thing about Brian Pillman that Orton said about Eddie. He did it expertly where as a viewer you weren't just taken out of it. But yeah, its a pretty questionable thing to do. At the end of the day, I would probably prefer if it wasn't done. Because if it is taking even a small number of the audience out of the program than its just not worth it. And thing is, even if he didn't put that stuff in, the promo was gold.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Unpopular opinion but I'm really looking forward to this match. I know what most people think that Cassidy is a gimmick and a comedy wrestler. And he is. But he has a real connection with that audience too that can't be discounted and I've almost always enjoyed him. On top of that he can wrestle too and you know that Ospreay is going to try his hardest to have the absolute best match that he can out there. If anything, Ospreay is going to see this as a challenge. So personally, I am intrigued to see how this turns out.

With Joe I'd personally prefer if he wasn't aligned with anyone. Because that fits much better with the killer that he is and has been presented as since his ROH days. The benefit of putting Cesaro in there is that (a) he's a really great technical wrestler which fits perfectly with the gimmick of their group and (b) he a really bad promo so you can have Regal do his talking.

For me, The Forbidden Door should have been a big deal with tons of dream matches atleast with the top guys of either promotions. Ospreay is definitely one of the top guys of NJPW. He should have been given somewhat more credible who you could see having a chance to win here. Cause with Cassidy I don't think that's happening. Cassidy is good, is good in the ring, is over, but still he isn't going to be the top guy anytime soon (which Ospreay is in his respective promotion). Like if you can get a 10-10, why do you have to settle on getting a 10-7.

The injuries haven't helped either. But I hope the recent slew of injuries will make AEW take that stuff seriously and hire good medical personnel (and maybe just maybe ask the wrestlers to not go out there and try to kill themselves in inconsequential matches)

 

[shaz619]

One thing an excited for even though I don’t play much at all is the Hideyuki Iwashita directed AEW console game, this guy worked on the GOAT No Mercy game and was involved with majority of the wrestling games made on the N64 in the 90’s, he also directed the Def Jam games to. Yuke’s and 2K parted ways a few years ago and they are developing the game to so I have high expectations, this should be really good [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION]

 

[shaz619]

Yeah I think you're right. Initially I heard that the injury wasn't concussion related. But now it seems like it is. Because they've been conspicuous in their silence about the nature of the injury.

When Bryan came in he talked about how he wanted to wrestle everywhere from New Japan to PWG to DEFY. But with this injury I seriously think he should reconsider doing that. He has a very high chance of getting concussed again, especially in New Japan because we all know perfectly well how stiff most of their guys are. I mean its called 'strong style' for a reason. On top of that we both know that if he's in the ring with their guys he is going to bring it 100% because, as you noted, that's the only way he knows how to wrestle. And that is where something can go wrong. The same goes for PWG. I really don't think its worth it for a guy like Bryan to go out there and have indierific matches for Excalibur's mark promotion infront of 60 people and risk serious injuries that could be life-threatening.

If you gotta do it, be smart and just doe the dream matches. And there are maybe a handful of dream them to be had between Bryan and guys that don't wrestle in AEW. Most guys in this business aren't fit to carry his bags. And on top of that there is also no need for him to elevate every no name indie talent that might be good 10 years from now.

Ooh I don't know about that man. Did you hear Regal talk on Jericho podcast? Because for me atleast that was an eye-opening podcast to hear. From what Regal says, he has had multiple heart surgeries including and open heart surgery in 2019 that almost took his life. On top of that he mentioned how he essentially wrestled with a broken neck for 12 or so years without even knowing it! and how his history of addiction has had his effects on him aswell. The podcast was originally supposed to be about a number of things but it ended up just being entirely about Regal's history of health issues. So I think its probably best if he is kept as far away from the ring as possible.

I do think its fitting though that Regal's last match in the ring was against Cesaro in NXT back in 2013. If he does come in, than it gives Regal something to talk about regarding their association. The same way he talked about his feud with Moxley in FCW and his general history with Bryan.

The worst part of it is that Bryan can adjust to any company or style, he knows how to get over in the ring and extremely gifted. Bryan is so good he made me enjoy a Fiend match with the red spotlight on for the whole duration, this guy is really good and doesn’t need to operate at full capacity to have a great match. There use to be comparison between Bryan/Benoit back in the day when it came to high octane technical wrestling but Bryan in the E adjusted to such an extent that I’d regard him as a modern day Bret, but now he’s going back to his old ways. Hopefully he takes it easy. Not listened to that podcast I really need to check it out, I wasn’t aware of Regal’s heart issues he’s a very private person but it was pretty cool he got to work with Cesaro and I think Bryan to around that time?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

One thing an excited for even though I don’t play much at all is the Hideyuki Iwashita directed AEW console game, this guy worked on the GOAT No Mercy game and was involved with majority of the wrestling games made on the N64 in the 90’s, he also directed the Def Jam games to. Yuke’s and 2K parted ways a few years ago and they are developing the game to so I have high expectations, this should be really good [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION]

Agreed brother. This guy is a legend among wrestling fans. If I'm not wrong he also did WCW/nWo Revenge, which was another amazing game for its time. Although I have to agree that No Mercy remains the GOAT.

Backstage news about the game has actually not been that positive. With Kenny Omega apparently clashing with people at Yuke's creatively. On top of that, they say that the game is way overbudget.

That said, if Yuke's is doing it you are bound to have high expectations. They have developed some of the greatest wrestling games of all-time and its hard not to get excited about this too.

The 2K-Yuke's split was evident by the last WWE game, which was an absolute piece of garbage. So I'm looking forward to a good wrestling game. WWE 2K19 was probably the last good one, and that was four years ago.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The worst part of it is that Bryan can adjust to any company or style, he knows how to get over in the ring and extremely gifted. Bryan is so good he made me enjoy a Fiend match with the red spotlight on for the whole duration, this guy is really good and doesn’t need to operate at full capacity to have a great match. There use to be comparison between Bryan/Benoit back in the day when it came to high octane technical wrestling but Bryan in the E adjusted to such an extent that I’d regard him as a modern day Bret, but now he’s going back to his old ways. Hopefully he takes it easy. Not listened to that podcast I really need to check it out, I wasn’t aware of Regal’s heart issues he’s a very private person but it was pretty cool he got to work with Cesaro and I think Bryan to around that time?

It kinda amazes me how brutal his matches in ROH were. Particularly during the early days. He and Nigel were two guys who left everything in the ring. And well, we all know what happened with Nigel. Bryan is lucky in alot of ways to still be wrestling. He got into WWE because he lied essentially about the same thing that Nigel told the truth about. Not to mention, he was able to come back from forced retirement, which very few people in history are lucky enough to be able to do.

So yeah. Let's hope he does take it easy. He is a once in a generation talent that is a joy to watch everytime he gets in the ring. But even more than that he needs to think about his family. Because he is putting his life in danger by repeatedly getting concussed. It's just not smart especially with everything we now know about concussions.

Yeah. That podcast might actually have been the first time that he revealed this much about his personal life and frankly I was taken aback.

I think they wrestled on the main-event of Superstars in 2011. Haven't seen the match but its one of those ones that you just know is gonna be great. Reminds me of the time I watched Regal vs Benoit on freakin' Velocity and was absolutely blown away by the end of it.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The worst part of it is that Bryan can adjust to any company or style, he knows how to get over in the ring and extremely gifted. Bryan is so good he made me enjoy a Fiend match with the red spotlight on for the whole duration, this guy is really good and doesn’t need to operate at full capacity to have a great match. There use to be comparison between Bryan/Benoit back in the day when it came to high octane technical wrestling but Bryan in the E adjusted to such an extent that I’d regard him as a modern day Bret, but now he’s going back to his old ways. Hopefully he takes it easy. Not listened to that podcast I really need to check it out, I wasn’t aware of Regal’s heart issues he’s a very private person but it was pretty cool he got to work with Cesaro and I think Bryan to around that time?

The Bret comparison is very apt btw. He is the only modern guy I can think of who executes everything perfectly. And on top of that everything he does makes complete sense and has logic behind it.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

One thing an excited for even though I don’t play much at all is the Hideyuki Iwashita directed AEW console game, this guy worked on the GOAT No Mercy game and was involved with majority of the wrestling games made on the N64 in the 90’s, he also directed the Def Jam games to. Yuke’s and 2K parted ways a few years ago and they are developing the game to so I have high expectations, this should be really good [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION]

I don't know what the price of the game will be and whether it would be released of PS4(i don't see myself buying a ps5) WWE 2k22 is currently priced at 60$ at the play store with the deluxe editions ranging from 90-120$ which is like half the price of a ps4 i believe. Been waiting for a mega sale on 2k22 so i would buy it. I spent some good money on 2k20 and it turned out to be among worst games i have ever played lol.

I miss the time when games used to be cheap. I loved playing smackdown 2 on ps1 back in the day. The SvR series started off well before becoming average.

 

[shaz619]

Agreed brother. This guy is a legend among wrestling fans. If I'm not wrong he also did WCW/nWo Revenge, which was another amazing game for its time. Although I have to agree that No Mercy remains the GOAT.

Backstage news about the game has actually not been that positive. With Kenny Omega apparently clashing with people at Yuke's creatively. On top of that, they say that the game is way overbudget.

That said, if Yuke's is doing it you are bound to have high expectations. They have developed some of the greatest wrestling games of all-time and its hard not to get excited about this too.

The 2K-Yuke's split was evident by the last WWE game, which was an absolute piece of garbage. So I'm looking forward to a good wrestling game. WWE 2K19 was probably the last good one, and that was four years ago.

Yes he worked on that game to which was really good as well and set the gameplay foundations, it was awesome to play as Sting in the white or red. No Mercy probably is the GOAT but for me WM 2000 is my personal favourite, it was so gritty, great story and the best create a wrestler mode ever, I learned all the wrestling moves from there lol N64 is the GOAT console imo and Nintendo never reached those heights again in terms of serious gaming.

In a recent article I’ve read that Omega said most the issues are resolved? apparently Cody will be in it to but am not sure if he will be a playable character.

2K20 was so horrible just going off the stuff I saw on social media, the new one is meant to be pretty good but they’ve not reinvented the wheel, good is not good enough when they had 2 years in development.

Then there’s the fire pro wrestling games which I’ve not got around to checking out but their gameplay is meant to be really good and you get to pick Okada

 

[shaz619]

I don't know what the price of the game will be and whether it would be released of PS4(i don't see myself buying a ps5) WWE 2k22 is currently priced at 60$ at the play store with the deluxe editions ranging from 90-120$ which is like half the price of a ps4 i believe. Been waiting for a mega sale on 2k22 so i would buy it. I spent some good money on 2k20 and it turned out to be among worst games i have ever played lol.

I miss the time when games used to be cheap. I loved playing smackdown 2 on ps1 back in the day. The SvR series started off well before becoming average.

Never buy out right or pre order, wait few months after release when people report issues and reviews come in. Games are pretty expensive now you’d have to wait for a black friday sale to get a good deal

It will be released on ps4 to I understand the AEW game.

Ah I loved SvR 2006 I still play it sometimes on my PSP, the GM mode was incredible. I play as Benoit at times, feels weird )

 

[shaz619]

I watched 3 matches from the AEW/NJPW PPV, just some brief thoughts:

Cesaro v Zack Sabre Jnr

Good match, but it couldn’t be more clear how vastly over rated Jnr is, Cesaro carried that match to say the least but it was enjoyable to see him in what was an extended squash. Technical wrestling is not just about submissions, its also about grappling closer to free-style and greco-roman, it relies heavily on realism and things you may see in serious amateur wrestling competition with the idea that you have a tactical plan surrounding how you go about weakening each limb whilst also utilising striking and executing moves with great technique and going back to the realism side of things, psychology off-course is vital; Zack is the worst candidate I could possibly nominate for the best technical wrestler in the world. I do feel sorry for the folk who had such high expectations from the guy and this was also the biggest match of his career in front of a big crowd and its not east in America. But for what it was and given my low expectations, it was fun to watch Cesaro obliterate him. Sabre though is no Benoit, Bryan, Bret or Kurt Angle, Jesus Christ……

Fatal 4 way: This was a good match, I had low expectations if am honest due to the poor build but it was fine, didn’t like the finish though. I still feel that in Chicago you have Okada in a match like that, do better man, he should have been in a high profile singles match, he was so over with the crowd and they wanted more, booking let him down here.

Main event:

Good match, didn’t overstay its welcome, had decent flow and Tanahashi adapted to the american style like a fish in water, his style I get is more American friendly but he was great and played off the crowd nicely and took his time. Mox played his part to although the blading was so unnecessary, its like he enjoys blading just for the sake of it, I don’t think it added anything to the match either and didn’t require it, also the price you pay for making the audience numb to this stuff, am also not a fan of the piledriver being used as a casual move, they are starting to treat it like the superkick

Overall solid wrestling, nothing to blow my mind massively but good stuff. I do feel there was a missed opportunity given the talent involved but it is what it is, maybe next time.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes he worked on that game to which was really good as well and set the gameplay foundations, it was awesome to play as Sting in the white or red. No Mercy probably is the GOAT but for me WM 2000 is my personal favourite, it was so gritty, great story and the best create a wrestler mode ever, I learned all the wrestling moves from there lol N64 is the GOAT console imo and Nintendo never reached those heights again in terms of serious gaming.

In a recent article I’ve read that Omega said most the issues are resolved? apparently Cody will be in it to but am not sure if he will be a playable character.

2K20 was so horrible just going off the stuff I saw on social media, the new one is meant to be pretty good but they’ve not reinvented the wheel, good is not good enough when they had 2 years in development.

Then there’s the fire pro wrestling games which I’ve not got around to checking out but their gameplay is meant to be really good and you get to pick Okada

I think they all have their own unique merits. WM 2000 I never got to play much of, so can't say much on it. But from what I recall it had similar mechanics to No Mercy.

There's Smackdown! Here Comes the Pain too, which radically changed graphics and gameplay for its time too. It remains one of my favorites to this day. And then ofcourse you had the SvR series, which was awesome as well. Particularly 2006, 2007 and 2008. I loved the GM mode so much lol. Which they seem to finally be bringing back with the next WWE game. People don't give enough credit to WWE 12 and WWE 13 either which had amazing rosters, graphics, gameplay and a great story mode too, which was written by Paul Heyman.

That's good to hear. Yeah Cody being in the game wouldn't surprise me considering how long the game has been in development. From what I have heard the roster size is not that big. But I'm sure the big names will all be there. Owen Hart is going to be in it as well, which will be great. I'm hoping that atleast some of the other legends like Sting, Dean Malenko, Taz (?), Jake....that are signed with AEW are in the game too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Never buy out right or pre order, wait few months after release when people report issues and reviews come in. Games are pretty expensive now you’d have to wait for a black friday sale to get a good deal

It will be released on ps4 to I understand the AEW game.

Ah I loved SvR 2006 I still play it sometimes on my PSP, the GM mode was incredible. I play as Benoit at times, feels weird )

Bro, SvR 2006 and 2007 have two really weird things in the story mode I don't know if you have heard about this.

The 2006 version has a minor thing. In the story mode, there's a cut-scene I think where The Undertaker pushes Eddie Guerrero into a casket and closes it. A week after this game released, Eddie passed away.

In the 2007 version there is something much weirder and more eerie. In the story mode there's a cut-scene where Benoit is cutting a promo on Taker and telling him how he's the top guy on SmackDown and that he wants to challenge The Undertaker.

To this The Undertaker replies: "If you insist on making this mistake, your grieving family will have no-one to blame but you when the inevitable occurs".

About 8 months or so after this game was released, that tragedy happened.

Here's the video of the cut-scene if you want to check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjvNTT87OCk

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don't know what the price of the game will be and whether it would be released of PS4(i don't see myself buying a ps5) WWE 2k22 is currently priced at 60$ at the play store with the deluxe editions ranging from 90-120$ which is like half the price of a ps4 i believe. Been waiting for a mega sale on 2k22 so i would buy it. I spent some good money on 2k20 and it turned out to be among worst games i have ever played lol.

I miss the time when games used to be cheap. I loved playing smackdown 2 on ps1 back in the day. The SvR series started off well before becoming average.

WWE usually does sales on their video-games when WrestleMania comes around. I would keep an eye on that. Besides that, Black Friday is an obvious time. And you might be able to get good deals during Christmas season too.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Never buy out right or pre order, wait few months after release when people report issues and reviews come in. Games are pretty expensive now you’d have to wait for a black friday sale to get a good deal

It will be released on ps4 to I understand the AEW game.

Ah I loved SvR 2006 I still play it sometimes on my PSP, the GM mode was incredible. I play as Benoit at times, feels weird )

I still play my psp at times. Have even modded it to be able to play ps1 games on it. I play sd 2 at times. lol

Yup I am waiting to get a discount of atleast 50%. Currently it's only at 25%. Might be able to get some good discount by august september. 2k20 flopped so hard that they had it on 70% discount by june july.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

WWE usually does sales on their video-games when WrestleMania comes around. I would keep an eye on that. Besides that, Black Friday is an obvious time. And you might be able to get good deals during Christmas season too.

The good thing about the playstore is there's always some discounts going on. Might be able to get a 50% around september.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Bro, SvR 2006 and 2007 have two really weird things in the story mode I don't know if you have heard about this.

The 2006 version has a minor thing. In the story mode, there's a cut-scene I think where The Undertaker pushes Eddie Guerrero into a casket and closes it. A week after this game released, Eddie passed away.

In the 2007 version there is something much weirder and more eerie. In the story mode there's a cut-scene where Benoit is cutting a promo on Taker and telling him how he's the top guy on SmackDown and that he wants to challenge The Undertaker.

To this The Undertaker replies: "If you insist on making this mistake, your grieving family will have no-one to blame but you when the inevitable occurs".

About 8 months or so after this game was released, that tragedy happened.

Here's the video of the cut-scene if you want to check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjvNTT87OCk

I have known about it. And it is extremely weird and unsettling.

 

[shaz619]

I still play my psp at times. Have even modded it to be able to play ps1 games on it. I play sd 2 at times. lol

Yup I am waiting to get a discount of atleast 50%. Currently it's only at 25%. Might be able to get some good discount by august september. 2k20 flopped so hard that they had it on 70% discount by june july.

Mine is modded to I don’t know how I did it like 10 years ago lol I use to do all sorts then. I want to try and see if I can get some more games, SvR 2007 was good right and after that I think they were average on PSP?

I also remember how I spent hours trying to get a modded ROH/TNA version of No Mercy to run, at one point I got the 6 sided ring to work to which was absolutely insane, it was a bit glitchy but when it worked it was incredible especially with the gameplay and updated moves

Yeah I remember that they put it on discount pretty quick lol I really hope this AEW game is good, it will also get 2K to pull their socks up instead of sticking to the same formula

 

[shaz619]

Bro, SvR 2006 and 2007 have two really weird things in the story mode I don't know if you have heard about this.

The 2006 version has a minor thing. In the story mode, there's a cut-scene I think where The Undertaker pushes Eddie Guerrero into a casket and closes it. A week after this game released, Eddie passed away.

In the 2007 version there is something much weirder and more eerie. In the story mode there's a cut-scene where Benoit is cutting a promo on Taker and telling him how he's the top guy on SmackDown and that he wants to challenge The Undertaker.

To this The Undertaker replies: "If you insist on making this mistake, your grieving family will have no-one to blame but you when the inevitable occurs".

About 8 months or so after this game was released, that tragedy happened.

Here's the video of the cut-scene if you want to check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjvNTT87OCk

Man I loved that storyline involving Taker and Eddie! but I don’t know why I didn’t pick up on that, at one point I believe I may have used Eddie in the story mode, I don’t know if that took me to a different story path. But that is really bizzare

 

[shaz619]

I would get the Switch immediately if these games from the N64 became available:

GoldenEye 007 (imo the GOAT video game ever)
WM 2000
WCW/NWO Revenge
Body Harvest (this to me closest thing to GTA on the N64, ironically the developer would later become Rockstar games…)

They already have MarioKart 64 and StarFox 64 available which is great

 

[shaz619]

I think they all have their own unique merits. WM 2000 I never got to play much of, so can't say much on it. But from what I recall it had similar mechanics to No Mercy.

There's Smackdown! Here Comes the Pain too, which radically changed graphics and gameplay for its time too. It remains one of my favorites to this day. And then ofcourse you had the SvR series, which was awesome as well. Particularly 2006, 2007 and 2008. I loved the GM mode so much lol. Which they seem to finally be bringing back with the next WWE game. People don't give enough credit to WWE 12 and WWE 13 either which had amazing rosters, graphics, gameplay and a great story mode too, which was written by Paul Heyman.

That's good to hear. Yeah Cody being in the game wouldn't surprise me considering how long the game has been in development. From what I have heard the roster size is not that big. But I'm sure the big names will all be there. Owen Hart is going to be in it as well, which will be great. I'm hoping that atleast some of the other legends like Sting, Dean Malenko, Taz (?), Jake....that are signed with AEW are in the game too.

Yes they do, the one thing which they all share is the gameplay mechanics fundamentals, while it would be tweaked further each time, they are so much fun to play due to that core gameplay and with that in mind WCW vs. nWo: World Tour probably doesn’t get enough love for introducing the revolutionary grappling system which would evolve, the sequel would set the bar though with its features in the form of entrances, expanding the moves, attires, titles, great graphics etc interesting these WCW games were the biggest selling wrestling games on the N64, revenge is no.1 and world tour at no.2

Yes Here Comes the Pain is a classic, I also loved the original know your role on PS1. I never quiet got to grips with WWE 12 and 13, how did you find the arcade gameplay? I never seemed to adjust to it which is a shame due to the AE era oriented story mode on WWE 13 I believe and if had Punk on the cover to which makes it a collectors item to

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Man I loved that storyline involving Taker and Eddie! but I don’t know why I didn’t pick up on that, at one point I believe I may have used Eddie in the story mode, I don’t know if that took me to a different story path. But that is really bizzare

The Eddie one is still a minor thing. Just a weird coincidence I guess.

But the Benoit one is too freakin weird.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I would get the Switch immediately if these games from the N64 became available:

GoldenEye 007 (imo the GOAT video game ever)
WM 2000
WCW/NWO Revenge
Body Harvest (this to me closest thing to GTA on the N64, ironically the developer would later become Rockstar games…)

They already have MarioKart 64 and StarFox 64 available which is great

I don't think there's a game I've played more on N64 than Mario Kart. But I would add Doom 64 to this list too. Body Harvest just creeped me out back then.

Tried playing these on the emulator years ago. Wasn't quite the same but I enjoyed it and would recommend provided you use a joystick.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes they do, the one thing which they all share is the gameplay mechanics fundamentals, while it would be tweaked further each time, they are so much fun to play due to that core gameplay and with that in mind WCW vs. nWo: World Tour probably doesn’t get enough love for introducing the revolutionary grappling system which would evolve, the sequel would set the bar though with its features in the form of entrances, expanding the moves, attires, titles, great graphics etc interesting these WCW games were the biggest selling wrestling games on the N64, revenge is no.1 and world tour at no.2

Yes Here Comes the Pain is a classic, I also loved the original know your role on PS1. I never quiet got to grips with WWE 12 and 13, how did you find the arcade gameplay? I never seemed to adjust to it which is a shame due to the AE era oriented story mode on WWE 13 I believe and if had Punk on the cover to which makes it a collectors item to

They don't nearly get enough credit. The only one that I thought wasn't that good was Mayhem. But other than that, I remember liking pretty much all the others.

Yeah I enjoyed Know Your Role and Shut Your Mouth too. But Here Comes the Pain for me, was the GOAT among early 2000s wrestling games.

I remember it being weird to adjust to initially, but once I got used to the controls I was good. Yeah one game had the Attitude Era storyline while the other one had multiple storylines featuring different wrestlers. The one I remember most though is the one where Sheamus makes a stable of European wrestlers with guys like Regal, McIntyre, Cesaro etc. and even brings back the European Championship. I remember playing the game at the time and thinking that this storyline is better than anything on RAW or SmackDown lol.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Mine is modded to I don’t know how I did it like 10 years ago lol I use to do all sorts then. I want to try and see if I can get some more games, SvR 2007 was good right and after that I think they were average on PSP?

I also remember how I spent hours trying to get a modded ROH/TNA version of No Mercy to run, at one point I got the 6 sided ring to work to which was absolutely insane, it was a bit glitchy but when it worked it was incredible especially with the gameplay and updated moves

Yeah I remember that they put it on discount pretty quick lol I really hope this AEW game is good, it will also get 2K to pull their socks up instead of sticking to the same formula

I played wwe 2k11 a lot on psp as well although it was sort of sluggish. I think the ps2 version was much better. svr2008 was good too as it featured ecw (and jeff hardy returned lol)

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I played wwe 2k11 a lot on psp as well although it was sort of sluggish. I think the ps2 version was much better. svr2008 was good too as it featured ecw (and jeff hardy returned lol)

Yeah I didn't enjoy SvR 2011 on PSP either. The big issue for me personally was that the graphics were so much better on PS2 and XBOX 360 that playing on PSP made me felt like I was playing an inferior version of that same game.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I watched 3 matches from the AEW/NJPW PPV, just some brief thoughts:

Cesaro v Zack Sabre Jnr

Good match, but it couldn’t be more clear how vastly over rated Jnr is, Cesaro carried that match to say the least but it was enjoyable to see him in what was an extended squash. Technical wrestling is not just about submissions, its also about grappling closer to free-style and greco-roman, it relies heavily on realism and things you may see in serious amateur wrestling competition with the idea that you have a tactical plan surrounding how you go about weakening each limb whilst also utilising striking and executing moves with great technique and going back to the realism side of things, psychology off-course is vital; Zack is the worst candidate I could possibly nominate for the best technical wrestler in the world. I do feel sorry for the folk who had such high expectations from the guy and this was also the biggest match of his career in front of a big crowd and its not east in America. But for what it was and given my low expectations, it was fun to watch Cesaro obliterate him. Sabre though is no Benoit, Bryan, Bret or Kurt Angle, Jesus Christ……

Fatal 4 way: This was a good match, I had low expectations if am honest due to the poor build but it was fine, didn’t like the finish though. I still feel that in Chicago you have Okada in a match like that, do better man, he should have been in a high profile singles match, he was so over with the crowd and they wanted more, booking let him down here.

Main event:

Good match, didn’t overstay its welcome, had decent flow and Tanahashi adapted to the american style like a fish in water, his style I get is more American friendly but he was great and played off the crowd nicely and took his time. Mox played his part to although the blading was so unnecessary, its like he enjoys blading just for the sake of it, I don’t think it added anything to the match either and didn’t require it, also the price you pay for making the audience numb to this stuff, am also not a fan of the piledriver being used as a casual move, they are starting to treat it like the superkick

Overall solid wrestling, nothing to blow my mind massively but good stuff. I do feel there was a missed opportunity given the talent involved but it is what it is, maybe next time.

I have very similar thoughts to you on these matches and the event in general. Will get back with my extended thoughts but I couldn't agree with you more on Claudio/Cesaro v Zack Sabre.

Zack is such a remarkably one-dimensional wrestler that I feel like its impossible to have any kind of exciting wrestling match with this guy. It's like he can only do one thing. How does that make him a great technical wrestler?

Claudio worked his a** off in this match. It was a pretty good showcase for him...although it certainly could have been better. I loved that he sold his arm after doing that absolutely crazy lift where he lifted Sabre from the outside into the ring with one arm.

On the whole I thought it was a good match. Almost entirely because of Claudio who tried his best to make this skinny white guy who can't kick or punch, look like a credible threat.

I know everyone knew he was coming, but it was still great to see Claudio come out and get that debut pop. I know alot of people are not happy that another ex-WWE guy is coming into AEW. But fact is, Claudio isn't just any other ex-WWE guy. He's an amazing wrestler who can put on great matches and has been putting on great matches longer than some of the people on this roster have been in the business. He lends instant credibility to an organization like AEW that wants to be perceived as the top pro-wrestling company in the US.

I'm also very glad that he didn't use the name CSRO lol.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah I didn't enjoy SvR 2011 on PSP either. The big issue for me personally was that the graphics were so much better on PS2 and XBOX 360 that playing on PSP made me felt like I was playing an inferior version of that same game.

yup the lack of second analog and l2 r2 hampers the game too much on psp compared to ps2. but 2k11 was still an upgrade over 2k10 for the psp version cause 2k10 was 2 moves for every wrestler.
2k20 took that to another level by making combos etc extremely difficult to memorize. i played 2k16 on pc which wasn't really anything to write home about but quite better than 2k20 on ps4. 2k16 actually had a bit better grappling system IMO. like you start the match with holds and stuff like how the matches in wwe actually start. but fans started to complain about it that it made the game "slow" after which they reverted to start the match which ever way you want from 2k17 or 18 i think.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] hearing Mox got concussed during his match at Forbidden Kingdom as well.

I just watched a recent pic of Mox and he seems to be gaining weight again. His face looks to be getting bigger again. I hope he's not reverted back to alcohol again. All the unnecessary blade jobs he's been doing could put him in a lot of pain. If he is literally concussed as well then would they do another interim world champ?

On the other hand, just caught a quick glimpse of Raw. Cena's return is a total mood lifter for me despite WWE have been incredibly stale even by their own standards recently. The 20 year video package they aired with Fort Minor's Remember The Name is pretty awesome. I hope Cena is doing more than 1 match this time around. He genuinely feels like a big big deal. Bigger than Brock IMO. Also looks like his haters have given up as well. I could really benefit from watching his uplifting promos these days.

Apart from that, WWE is awful these days to say the least. Looks like Dominik is going to be turning on Rey soon. But I'd like him to go to NXT and PC and improve.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] hearing Mox got concussed during his match at Forbidden Kingdom as well.

I just watched a recent pic of Mox and he seems to be gaining weight again. His face looks to be getting bigger again. I hope he's not reverted back to alcohol again. All the unnecessary blade jobs he's been doing could put him in a lot of pain. If he is literally concussed as well then would they do another interim world champ?

On the other hand, just caught a quick glimpse of Raw. Cena's return is a total mood lifter for me despite WWE have been incredibly stale even by their own standards recently. The 20 year video package they aired with Fort Minor's Remember The Name is pretty awesome. I hope Cena is doing more than 1 match this time around. He genuinely feels like a big big deal. Bigger than Brock IMO. Also looks like his haters have given up as well. I could really benefit from watching his uplifting promos these days.

Apart from that, WWE is awful these days to say the least. Looks like Dominik is going to be turning on Rey soon. But I'd like him to go to NXT and PC and improve.

I dunno. I haven't heard anything about this. If it was a concussion they probably would have pulled him from the match by now.

I think he busted himself open the hard way in the match. Although I could be wrong.

As for the alcohol part, I saw an interview of him taken by his wife the other day. And to me atleast it didn't at all seem like he drinks anymore. Because they spent a good 20 minutes talking about just that.

Yeah it was great to see Cena on Raw. The promo was alright. Well delivered but full of kind of the same stuff he always says. But just his presence brought so much to the show. It reminded you what a star he still is, and how few stars WWE has. I don't think he'll be sticking around long though. I think he will probably do a match with Austin Theory at SummerSlam and then go back to Hollywood until WrestleMania or SummerSlam rolls around again.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I dunno. I haven't heard anything about this. If it was a concussion they probably would have pulled him from the match by now.

I think he busted himself open the hard way in the match. Although I could be wrong.

As for the alcohol part, I saw an interview of him taken by his wife the other day. And to me atleast it didn't at all seem like he drinks anymore. Because they spent a good 20 minutes talking about just that.

Yeah it was great to see Cena on Raw. The promo was alright. Well delivered but full of kind of the same stuff he always says. But just his presence brought so much to the show. It reminded you what a star he still is, and how few stars WWE has. I don't think he'll be sticking around long though. I think he will probably do a match with Austin Theory at SummerSlam and then go back to Hollywood until WrestleMania or SummerSlam rolls around again.

Don't know heard Mox got concussed during his match with Tana. The awful thing about addiction is they can creep back anytime. Lots of wrestlers use alcohol for pain as well. Till a few months, even Jeff was saying how he is doing well and has left alcohol behind(although his problems go back as far as 20 years back i guess).

Yup promo wise, it wasn't really anything. It was simply a thank you. Didn't even start any angle or storyline with that either. I could be wrong but I think he might have been told to go just say whatever you want to. It was just his mere presence.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I won't like John to lose to Theory at SS. I like Theory a lot and is a future superstar. But really I don't think he looks convincing enough to beat Cena right now. John hasn't won a singles match for like 2-3 years now. I'd like him to win for now.

 

[shaz619]

I have very similar thoughts to you on these matches and the event in general. Will get back with my extended thoughts but I couldn't agree with you more on Claudio/Cesaro v Zack Sabre.

Zack is such a remarkably one-dimensional wrestler that I feel like its impossible to have any kind of exciting wrestling match with this guy. It's like he can only do one thing. How does that make him a great technical wrestler?

Claudio worked his a** off in this match. It was a pretty good showcase for him...although it certainly could have been better. I loved that he sold his arm after doing that absolutely crazy lift where he lifted Sabre from the outside into the ring with one arm.

On the whole I thought it was a good match. Almost entirely because of Claudio who tried his best to make this skinny white guy who can't kick or punch, look like a credible threat.

I know everyone knew he was coming, but it was still great to see Claudio come out and get that debut pop. I know alot of people are not happy that another ex-WWE guy is coming into AEW. But fact is, Claudio isn't just any other ex-WWE guy. He's an amazing wrestler who can put on great matches and has been putting on great matches longer than some of the people on this roster have been in the business. He lends instant credibility to an organization like AEW that wants to be perceived as the top pro-wrestling company in the US.

I'm also very glad that he didn't use the name CSRO lol.

Zack works best with smaller guys who can bump a bit more for him and can play of the atmosphere of a smaller crowd; I don’t like Hunter but the guy booked Jnr to perfection in the cruiserweight classic tournament which was very good. Here Cesaro was on fire, also have to remember how he has been out the ring for some time and not even being at 100% the guy carried the match like such a pro / fish in water, if was business as usual.

If AEW can get guys who add value shouldn’t matter where they come from. It’s more of a casual fan view but that’s something the company can utilise to get more eyeballs and the difficult bit to keep them hooked

 

[shaz619]

I dunno. I haven't heard anything about this. If it was a concussion they probably would have pulled him from the match by now.

I think he busted himself open the hard way in the match. Although I could be wrong.

As for the alcohol part, I saw an interview of him taken by his wife the other day. And to me atleast it didn't at all seem like he drinks anymore. Because they spent a good 20 minutes talking about just that.

Yeah it was great to see Cena on Raw. The promo was alright. Well delivered but full of kind of the same stuff he always says. But just his presence brought so much to the show. It reminded you what a star he still is, and how few stars WWE has. I don't think he'll be sticking around long though. I think he will probably do a match with Austin Theory at SummerSlam and then go back to Hollywood until WrestleMania or SummerSlam rolls around again.

Don't know heard Mox got concussed during his match with Tana. The awful thing about addiction is they can creep back anytime. Lots of wrestlers use alcohol for pain as well. Till a few months, even Jeff was saying how he is doing well and has left alcohol behind(although his problems go back as far as 20 years back i guess).

Yup promo wise, it wasn't really anything. It was simply a thank you. Didn't even start any angle or storyline with that either. I could be wrong but I think he might have been told to go just say whatever you want to. It was just his mere presence.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I won't like John to lose to Theory at SS. I like Theory a lot and is a future superstar. But really I don't think he looks convincing enough to beat Cena right now. John hasn't won a singles match for like 2-3 years now. I'd like him to win for now.

According to Uncle Dave, Mox highlighting his concussion after the match was a work, from what I saw in the match nothing suggested he was out of it? the blading though - guy has psychological issues. Honestly, people who have issues are better served in an environment which has a more structured hierarchy and established policy’s surrounding well being and illegal substance use. A bit strange that AEW put the title on such an unpredictable character.

Adam Cole though suffered a concussion, I said earlier how I felt the finish was off because Cole sought of ducked under the rainmaker, collapsed and then Jay White covered him, that didn’t look good at all, hopefully Cole is well. White has a high ceiling, the guy is a good professional, looks the part, can work and has the potential to improve his personality to, he could really benefit from some north american experience but it’s good he is developing his ring work for now. Btw the new IWGP title is horrible, don’t like it at all.

 

[shaz619]

Cena man has been so under rated, and it’s a matter of the audience realising how he was taken for granted. Put Cena in the ring with any wrestler in the world and he will have a good to great match, he isn’t blessed with raw talent but was a tremendously hard worker who developed a very high ring IQ. Interested to see who he will face next, I don’t mind the Austin Theory match at all, think it would be a great rub for Theory win or lose and the guy clearly has serious potential. On the flip side Cena could work with Gunther to, he has never been IC champion, winning the title would make him a grand slam winner; both matches are fresh and interesting, plus the company would get more out of those matches opposed to if he worked with someone he has faced already

 

[shaz619]

I played wwe 2k11 a lot on psp as well although it was sort of sluggish. I think the ps2 version was much better. svr2008 was good too as it featured ecw (and jeff hardy returned lol)

Yeah I didn't enjoy SvR 2011 on PSP either. The big issue for me personally was that the graphics were so much better on PS2 and XBOX 360 that playing on PSP made me felt like I was playing an inferior version of that same game.

What would you guys say were the top 2 best psp wrestling games?

I would say 06 and 07

07 was more of the same but that ability to interact with the environment was introduced and I think giving us more control of movement via the analogue.

Out of these two, perhaps 07 was the best for making tweaks to what was already good in 06 but not taking too much away from what was a great game already.

I also recall how I once managed to run No Mercy of my phone! it’s a lot more of a strain to do it on IOS though so may not bother with that, there are some 3rd party handheld devices out there however.

I’ve seen some insane videos of people creating a handheld N64 device which runs the cartridge, ridiculous, wish we could buy that.

Looking into some 2D gaming options to, use to have a GBA SP and Survivor Series back in the day. There are a number of refurbished devices out there, the OEM backlit models are too expensive

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Don't know heard Mox got concussed during his match with Tana. The awful thing about addiction is they can creep back anytime. Lots of wrestlers use alcohol for pain as well. Till a few months, even Jeff was saying how he is doing well and has left alcohol behind(although his problems go back as far as 20 years back i guess).

Yup promo wise, it wasn't really anything. It was simply a thank you. Didn't even start any angle or storyline with that either. I could be wrong but I think he might have been told to go just say whatever you want to. It was just his mere presence.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I won't like John to lose to Theory at SS. I like Theory a lot and is a future superstar. But really I don't think he looks convincing enough to beat Cena right now. John hasn't won a singles match for like 2-3 years now. I'd like him to win for now.

The thing with concussions is that they are pretty serious. Especially in wrestling because of the whole Chris Benoit thing. Professional, top-level companies like AEW and WWE usually take them very seriously and don't tend to allow their wrestlers to compete unless they know that everything is alright. We saw this just recently with Bryan and Adam Cole. And Hardy likely would have been pulled from his match too had he actually gotten his brain scan, which he was going for before he was pulled over for drunk driving. So given that Blood and Guts is such a major event for AEW, it doesn't make any sense for them to continue advertising Moxley for the match if he is infact concussed. Especially considering that they've announced more matches for the show in the last 24 hours.

Yeah but at the same time if someone is saying that they are clean there's no reason to doubt them unless they do something that shows you otherwise. Mox's case was far different from Hardy. For one thing, he went to rehab on his own accord. Which tells me that he himself wanted to change, and it wasn't something he was forced to do, which has almost always been the case with Hardy. Infact he has quit WWE numerous times because they told him to go to rehab and he didn't want to. He also didn't have a history of egregious behavior, or even something like Hardy's Victory Road incident where he showed up high for his PPV main-event match against Sting.

Yeah I don't think that would be a smart decision. I mean get that Theory's a rising that they are trying to build for the future. And sure, the kid has a ton of upside. He's highly talented in the ring for his age and limited experience. But I don't see how it makes any sense for him to go over Cena. Even if its by cheating. I actually can't recall the last time Cena even won since he went part time. So this could be a good opportunity to give him a win and elevate Theory in the process. Because even part-timers need credibility. You can't just keep beating them and tell the audience that they are legends.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What would you guys say were the top 2 best psp wrestling games?

I would say 06 and 07

07 was more of the same but that ability to interact with the environment was introduced and I think giving us more control of movement via the analogue.

Out of these two, perhaps 07 was the best for making tweaks to what was already good in 06 but not taking too much away from what was a great game already.

I also recall how I once managed to run No Mercy of my phone! it’s a lot more of a strain to do it on IOS though so may not bother with that, there are some 3rd party handheld devices out there however.

I’ve seen some insane videos of people creating a handheld N64 device which runs the cartridge, ridiculous, wish we could buy that.

Looking into some 2D gaming options to, use to have a GBA SP and Survivor Series back in the day. There are a number of refurbished devices out there, the OEM backlit models are too expensive

I would have to say 2007. Just because I have played that game adnauseam.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What would you guys say were the top 2 best psp wrestling games?

I would say 06 and 07

07 was more of the same but that ability to interact with the environment was introduced and I think giving us more control of movement via the analogue.

Out of these two, perhaps 07 was the best for making tweaks to what was already good in 06 but not taking too much away from what was a great game already.

I also recall how I once managed to run No Mercy of my phone! it’s a lot more of a strain to do it on IOS though so may not bother with that, there are some 3rd party handheld devices out there however.

I’ve seen some insane videos of people creating a handheld N64 device which runs the cartridge, ridiculous, wish we could buy that.

Looking into some 2D gaming options to, use to have a GBA SP and Survivor Series back in the day. There are a number of refurbished devices out there, the OEM backlit models are too expensive

The thing with PSP games is that they didn't change much after a certain point. So for me, there's wasn't really any big upside to playing the newer WWE games because they pretty much looked exactly like 2007 graphics-wise all the way upto SvR 2011, while as games they were simply not as good as 2007.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Cena man has been so under rated, and it’s a matter of the audience realising how he was taken for granted. Put Cena in the ring with any wrestler in the world and he will have a good to great match, he isn’t blessed with raw talent but was a tremendously hard worker who developed a very high ring IQ. Interested to see who he will face next, I don’t mind the Austin Theory match at all, think it would be a great rub for Theory win or lose and the guy clearly has serious potential. On the flip side Cena could work with Gunther to, he has never been IC champion, winning the title would make him a grand slam winner; both matches are fresh and interesting, plus the company would get more out of those matches opposed to if he worked with someone he has faced already

I think one thing that we should probably talk more about is what a great guy he is. I'm not gonna defend all his Hustle Loyalty Respect crap because frankly speaking I hated it. But at the same time, I can separate the man from the gimmick, and the fact that, that was the direction that Vince wanted him to go in. What stands out to me about him though is that he was never a straight-up p*ick like Michaels, he was never someone who actively politicked, buried or held guys down like Hogan. Even Austin on numerous occasions was unprofessional when it came to doing business---although he certainly can't even be compared to Hogan. Cena though was none of these things and by all accounts just a genuinely good guy. He was given the ball. He didn't ask for it. And once he got it, he tried to do the very best that he could for his company. During that period he was always a thorough professional and got injured minimally. When the time came to phase him out, he happily dropped down to the midcard. And where someone else might have projected their insecurities or taken that as an insult, Cena saw it as an opportunity to remind everyone just how well he can go in that ring. And had a run to remember as US Champion where he put over a number of guys in victories and defeats.

What impresses me about him is that he was never insecure about his spot. Sure, he had to work a limited style in the ring to avoid injuries and cut those promos aimed at inspiring 9 year olds, but that didn't mean that he couldn't work or couldn't cut a promo.

Still feel we missed out on a Cena heel run. I think it would have been truly incredible. But oh well...

Btw, speaking of him what is your favorite Cena match? For me, Cena vs JBL in an I Quit Match at Judgment Day 2005 has stood the test of time. But AJ v Cena at SummerSlam '16 is right up there as well.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

According to Uncle Dave, Mox highlighting his concussion after the match was a work, from what I saw in the match nothing suggested he was out of it? the blading though - guy has psychological issues. Honestly, people who have issues are better served in an environment which has a more structured hierarchy and established policy’s surrounding well being and illegal substance use. A bit strange that AEW put the title on such an unpredictable character.

Adam Cole though suffered a concussion, I said earlier how I felt the finish was off because Cole sought of ducked under the rainmaker, collapsed and then Jay White covered him, that didn’t look good at all, hopefully Cole is well. White has a high ceiling, the guy is a good professional, looks the part, can work and has the potential to improve his personality to, he could really benefit from some north american experience but it’s good he is developing his ring work for now. Btw the new IWGP title is horrible, don’t like it at all.

I don't really believe whatever Dave says about AEW tbh. He's always defending them like a upstanding employee.

Well there's a reason Mox didn't like being in a relatively more structured system. Not many guys with the level of fame that he has would go to a system like GCW and would torture themselves willingly.

Concussions are a strange thing, different manifestations, different symptoms, different onset times according to the region affected and stuff. Graeme Smith developed a post concussion syndrome 12 days after getting hit on the head with a Mohammad Irfan bouncer back in 2013 when he developed such a severe vertigo he was unable to stand up for a few days.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The thing with concussions is that they are pretty serious. Especially in wrestling because of the whole Chris Benoit thing. Professional, top-level companies like AEW and WWE usually take them very seriously and don't tend to allow their wrestlers to compete unless they know that everything is alright. We saw this just recently with Bryan and Adam Cole. And Hardy likely would have been pulled from his match too had he actually gotten his brain scan, which he was going for before he was pulled over for drunk driving. So given that Blood and Guts is such a major event for AEW, it doesn't make any sense for them to continue advertising Moxley for the match if he is infact concussed. Especially considering that they've announced more matches for the show in the last 24 hours.

Yeah but at the same time if someone is saying that they are clean there's no reason to doubt them unless they do something that shows you otherwise. Mox's case was far different from Hardy. For one thing, he went to rehab on his own accord. Which tells me that he himself wanted to change, and it wasn't something he was forced to do, which has almost always been the case with Hardy. Infact he has quit WWE numerous times because they told him to go to rehab and he didn't want to. He also didn't have a history of egregious behavior, or even something like Hardy's Victory Road incident where he showed up high for his PPV main-event match against Sting.

Yeah I don't think that would be a smart decision. I mean get that Theory's a rising that they are trying to build for the future. And sure, the kid has a ton of upside. He's highly talented in the ring for his age and limited experience. But I don't see how it makes any sense for him to go over Cena. Even if its by cheating. I actually can't recall the last time Cena even won since he went part time. So this could be a good opportunity to give him a win and elevate Theory in the process. Because even part-timers need credibility. You can't just keep beating them and tell the audience that they are legends.

I just hope all these guys remain healthy. They are good wrestlers and I like watching their matches.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

What would you guys say were the top 2 best psp wrestling games?

I would say 06 and 07

07 was more of the same but that ability to interact with the environment was introduced and I think giving us more control of movement via the analogue.

Out of these two, perhaps 07 was the best for making tweaks to what was already good in 06 but not taking too much away from what was a great game already.

I also recall how I once managed to run No Mercy of my phone! it’s a lot more of a strain to do it on IOS though so may not bother with that, there are some 3rd party handheld devices out there however.

I’ve seen some insane videos of people creating a handheld N64 device which runs the cartridge, ridiculous, wish we could buy that.

Looking into some 2D gaming options to, use to have a GBA SP and Survivor Series back in the day. There are a number of refurbished devices out there, the OEM backlit models are too expensive

2k11 and 2008. They offer different kind of games. Both have different gameplays control etc. Otherwise all others are quite similar to one another controls wise. Plus I kinda liked the 2k11's free roaming career mode. Kinda liked ending Undertaker's streak story and Christian's story.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I just hope all these guys remain healthy. They are good wrestlers and I like watching their matches.

Agreed.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Zack works best with smaller guys who can bump a bit more for him and can play of the atmosphere of a smaller crowd; I don’t like Hunter but the guy booked Jnr to perfection in the cruiserweight classic tournament which was very good. Here Cesaro was on fire, also have to remember how he has been out the ring for some time and not even being at 100% the guy carried the match like such a pro / fish in water, if was business as usual.

If AEW can get guys who add value shouldn’t matter where they come from. It’s more of a casual fan view but that’s something the company can utilise to get more eyeballs and the difficult bit to keep them hooked

Yeah but that still makes him a very limited guy. How many marquee matches is he going to be on even if he manages to have a few great matches with smaller guys? The last and only other match of his that I saw was the one he had against Ospreay that Uncle Dave could not stop raving about. It was such slow, plodding and boring match. And yet I still wanted to give Zack the benefit of the doubt eventhough Ospreay is literally one of the most exciting wrestlers out there. And if you are having a boring match with him, chances are you will have boring matches with other guys too.

But after this match, it became clear to me just how overrated Zack Sabre Jr. really is.

 

[shaz619]

Yeah but that still makes him a very limited guy. How many marquee matches is he going to be on even if he manages to have a few great matches with smaller guys? The last and only other match of his that I saw was the one he had against Ospreay that Uncle Dave could not stop raving about. It was such slow, plodding and boring match. And yet I still wanted to give Zack the benefit of the doubt eventhough Ospreay is literally one of the most exciting wrestlers out there. And if you are having a boring match with him, chances are you will have boring matches with other guys too.

But after this match, it became clear to me just how overrated Zack Sabre Jr. really is.

I’ve always been highly critical of the guy, if you go by the word of hipster marks who eat up Dave’s star ratings blindly, you’d expect him to be Angle, Benoit, Bryan and Bret all wrapped up in one, the “smark” fans of this era are the most delusional and out touch group of wrestling fans I’ve ever seen. Not watched that match with Ospreay but if he was better then Shawn then he’d have made that match above average, Kota Ibushi certainly managed it, don’t know what happened to him, so many of these spot wrestlers lack consistency and basic adaptability. Come to think of it, Zack jnr is a spot wrestler to “I”ll be in this position all night lads, just look at my amazing wrist lock”

 

[shaz619]

I think one thing that we should probably talk more about is what a great guy he is. I'm not gonna defend all his Hustle Loyalty Respect crap because frankly speaking I hated it. But at the same time, I can separate the man from the gimmick, and the fact that, that was the direction that Vince wanted him to go in. What stands out to me about him though is that he was never a straight-up p*ick like Michaels, he was never someone who actively politicked, buried or held guys down like Hogan. Even Austin on numerous occasions was unprofessional when it came to doing business---although he certainly can't even be compared to Hogan. Cena though was none of these things and by all accounts just a genuinely good guy. He was given the ball. He didn't ask for it. And once he got it, he tried to do the very best that he could for his company. During that period he was always a thorough professional and got injured minimally. When the time came to phase him out, he happily dropped down to the midcard. And where someone else might have projected their insecurities or taken that as an insult, Cena saw it as an opportunity to remind everyone just how well he can go in that ring. And had a run to remember as US Champion where he put over a number of guys in victories and defeats.

What impresses me about him is that he was never insecure about his spot. Sure, he had to work a limited style in the ring to avoid injuries and cut those promos aimed at inspiring 9 year olds, but that didn't mean that he couldn't work or couldn't cut a promo.

Still feel we missed out on a Cena heel run. I think it would have been truly incredible. But oh well...

Btw, speaking of him what is your favorite Cena match? For me, Cena vs JBL in an I Quit Match at Judgment Day 2005 has stood the test of time. But AJ v Cena at SummerSlam '16 is right up there as well.

No denying that he was more of a pro then any of those guys were combined. Perhaps only The Rock may come close but Cena is on another level in that regard. Shawn was horrible but made up for in his second run and Hogan will always be Hogan. Cena was such a selfless guy, there are only a handful of incidents where he may have interfered with something but he apologised for it lol who even does that, and to even demonise him for any of that stuff is ridiculous. Some fans also couldn’t distinguish between creative booking and Cena the person, he wasn’t Hunter aka Darth Burius.

Ah man he has such a long list of great matches and the ones you mentioned were brilliant. I’ve had the pleasure of watching some great live events over the years and to this day, nothing comes close to Cena vs Bray in my hometown, Bryan was meant to headline the UK tour that year but had to retire following his title win and they bought in Cena for the shows in my region, the atmosphere was mad and I couldn’t comprehend how over Cena was with the casual audience until I saw it in person, the match blew off the roof, the two shared tremendous chemistry as you would have seen from their PPV matches but on house shows it was just different level, Cena afterwards stuck around for a while to interact with fans, I’ve never seen any other top guy do that either. But it was an amazing match, might have posted some pictures in the old wrestling thread, that would be my favourite Cena match.

Besides that I would say for the televised matches, it would have to be these two:

Cena v HBK 2 in London on RAW, I think Edge or Randy got injured so these two had to cover the final hour. I liked this match even more then the mania one, the flow, pacing, atmosphere, how they played off a hot crowd, the selling and timing was all on point, can’t believe we got it for free on TV but this was a special night and a special match, wish I was there

Cena vs Edge TLC at Unforgiven, I feel this was one of the most important matches of Cena’s career and among the intense criticisms of sceptics he proved how tough he was and how he could hang with a guy who was vastly more experienced in a TLC match which are never easy to do for anyone but it was a thrilling fight and great pay off to the brilliant feud

 

[BunnyRabbit]

No denying that he was more of a pro then any of those guys were combined. Perhaps only The Rock may come close but Cena is on another level in that regard. Shawn was horrible but made up for in his second run and Hogan will always be Hogan. Cena was such a selfless guy, there are only a handful of incidents where he may have interfered with something but he apologised for it lol who even does that, and to even demonise him for any of that stuff is ridiculous. Some fans also couldn’t distinguish between creative booking and Cena the person, he wasn’t Hunter aka Darth Burius.

Ah man he has such a long list of great matches and the ones you mentioned were brilliant. I’ve had the pleasure of watching some great live events over the years and to this day, nothing comes close to Cena vs Bray in my hometown, Bryan was meant to headline the UK tour that year but had to retire following his title win and they bought in Cena for the shows in my region, the atmosphere was mad and I couldn’t comprehend how over Cena was with the casual audience until I saw it in person, the match blew off the roof, the two shared tremendous chemistry as you would have seen from their PPV matches but on house shows it was just different level, Cena afterwards stuck around for a while to interact with fans, I’ve never seen any other top guy do that either. But it was an amazing match, might have posted some pictures in the old wrestling thread, that would be my favourite Cena match.

Besides that I would say for the televised matches, it would have to be these two:

Cena v HBK 2 in London on RAW, I think Edge or Randy got injured so these two had to cover the final hour. I liked this match even more then the mania one, the flow, pacing, atmosphere, how they played off a hot crowd, the selling and timing was all on point, can’t believe we got it for free on TV but this was a special night and a special match, wish I was there

Cena vs Edge TLC at Unforgiven, I feel this was one of the most important matches of Cena’s career and among the intense criticisms of sceptics he proved how tough he was and how he could hang with a guy who was vastly more experienced in a TLC match which are never easy to do for anyone but it was a thrilling fight and great pay off to the brilliant feud

That hour long match between HBK and Cena was a 5 star match regardless of what rating dave gave it.
That match was probably the first one where Cena showed he could hang in with the best and carry the match all by himself. Plus wrestling for 1 hour is no joke.

Regarding Edge vs Cena, I think that has arguably been Cena's best rivalry to date. It could have been much more as Edge wasn't booked that strong against him. Edge was absolutely phenomenal in that feud.

It may be my bias but I think Dwayne has been a more selfless guy throughout his career. Cena has been an absolute company man yes. Cena has had his share of some influential bookings as well. Like everyone has done that. Cena got the finish of wwe vs nexus match changed. Dwayne buried Billy Gunn in their feud.

Brock said he was initially going to win his summerslam match against him via low blow. But Dwayne insisted to put him over clean. Hurricane has also told his story of that feud countless times how he wasn't initially told to speak anything during his backstage promo with The Rock. But while shooting it Dwayne kept messing up the lines repeatedly till the show was about to start and asked it to be live. Then he told Hurricane they can't tell you not to speak while we're live.

I think both of them have been incredible human beings over their careers. But AE was much more cut throat and dirtier behind the scenes. By the time Cena came in and after Benoit's and Eddie's death, the environment backstage had changed drastically and become much more in order.

 

[shaz619]

That hour long match between HBK and Cena was a 5 star match regardless of what rating dave gave it.
That match was probably the first one where Cena showed he could hang in with the best and carry the match all by himself. Plus wrestling for 1 hour is no joke.

Regarding Edge vs Cena, I think that has arguably been Cena's best rivalry to date. It could have been much more as Edge wasn't booked that strong against him. Edge was absolutely phenomenal in that feud.

It may be my bias but I think Dwayne has been a more selfless guy throughout his career. Cena has been an absolute company man yes. Cena has had his share of some influential bookings as well. Like everyone has done that. Cena got the finish of wwe vs nexus match changed. Dwayne buried Billy Gunn in their feud.

Brock said he was initially going to win his summerslam match against him via low blow. But Dwayne insisted to put him over clean. Hurricane has also told his story of that feud countless times how he wasn't initially told to speak anything during his backstage promo with The Rock. But while shooting it Dwayne kept messing up the lines repeatedly till the show was about to start and asked it to be live. Then he told Hurricane they can't tell you not to speak while we're live.

I think both of them have been incredible human beings over their careers. But AE was much more cut throat and dirtier behind the scenes. By the time Cena came in and after Benoit's and Eddie's death, the environment backstage had changed drastically and become much more in order.

Without a doubt one of the best RAW matches in history and it was defo a sort of vindication of Cena’s abilities amongst all the vitriol and unfair criticism, sure Shawn led the way and orchestrated proceedings but to even hang in there with Shawn for more then 30 min, you need to be able to tango and that was a big feat in itself. Similarly if there were any skeptics on HBK back in the day as a main eventer, regardless of the opinion some may have on the WM12 main event, to work the first ever Iron Man affair and match Bret skill for skill during an hour put his capabilities over massively despite how respected his ring talents were. I don’t know what Dave rated the Cena/HBK match but WWE classics he rarely will go over 4.75 unless you name your finisher after his name.

The Rock was a stand up guy no doubt about it which is even more refreshing to an extent given the nature of the environment he worked in, but he worked hard, paid his dues and never forgot the favours.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

No denying that he was more of a pro then any of those guys were combined. Perhaps only The Rock may come close but Cena is on another level in that regard. Shawn was horrible but made up for in his second run and Hogan will always be Hogan. Cena was such a selfless guy, there are only a handful of incidents where he may have interfered with something but he apologised for it lol who even does that, and to even demonise him for any of that stuff is ridiculous. Some fans also couldn’t distinguish between creative booking and Cena the person, he wasn’t Hunter aka Darth Burius.

Ah man he has such a long list of great matches and the ones you mentioned were brilliant. I’ve had the pleasure of watching some great live events over the years and to this day, nothing comes close to Cena vs Bray in my hometown, Bryan was meant to headline the UK tour that year but had to retire following his title win and they bought in Cena for the shows in my region, the atmosphere was mad and I couldn’t comprehend how over Cena was with the casual audience until I saw it in person, the match blew off the roof, the two shared tremendous chemistry as you would have seen from their PPV matches but on house shows it was just different level, Cena afterwards stuck around for a while to interact with fans, I’ve never seen any other top guy do that either. But it was an amazing match, might have posted some pictures in the old wrestling thread, that would be my favourite Cena match.

Besides that I would say for the televised matches, it would have to be these two:

Cena v HBK 2 in London on RAW, I think Edge or Randy got injured so these two had to cover the final hour. I liked this match even more then the mania one, the flow, pacing, atmosphere, how they played off a hot crowd, the selling and timing was all on point, can’t believe we got it for free on TV but this was a special night and a special match, wish I was there

Cena vs Edge TLC at Unforgiven, I feel this was one of the most important matches of Cena’s career and among the intense criticisms of sceptics he proved how tough he was and how he could hang with a guy who was vastly more experienced in a TLC match which are never easy to do for anyone but it was a thrilling fight and great pay off to the brilliant feud

Some great picks there. Cena v Edge is a stand-out. One of my favorite feuds from that period. And that TLC match was really the perfect end to it. It was fun to see Edge being cheered like crazy in his hometown and Cena being booed just as much. Awesome match, one that's hard to forget.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don't know about you guys but I thought Money in the Bank was easily the worst wrestling PPV I have seen all year.

There wasn't a single match here that I liked. But a few things really got on my nerves. Namely; 3 women's matches on the card, none of which were any good, Usos and Street Profits going 20+ minutes! A seemingly endless number of video packages, and a highly underwhelming Men's MITB ladder match.

I mean they have so much talent on their roster and this is the MITB ladder match they put together? I get that KO was injured, but what about Balor, AJ, Ricochet?? Are you seriously telling me that these guys can't make it in, but Miz, Omos and Madcap Moss can? What a joke.

And are we seriously supposed to believe that Liv Morgan who is 5'3, under 100 pounds and devoid of any discernible in-ring talent, is going to get the better of Ronda Rousey in any legit situation? I don't care if Ronda is crippled and on a wheel-chair, she's still beating Liv Morgan to a pulp.

 

[shaz619]

I don't know about you guys but I thought Money in the Bank was easily the worst wrestling PPV I have seen all year.

There wasn't a single match here that I liked. But a few things really got on my nerves. Namely; 3 women's matches on the card, none of which were any good, Usos and Street Profits going 20+ minutes! A seemingly endless number of video packages, and a highly underwhelming Men's MITB ladder match.

I mean they have so much talent on their roster and this is the MITB ladder match they put together? I get that KO was injured, but what about Balor, AJ, Ricochet?? Are you seriously telling me that these guys can't make it in, but Miz, Omos and Madcap Moss can? What a joke.

And are we seriously supposed to believe that Liv Morgan who is 5'3, under 100 pounds and devoid of any discernible in-ring talent, is going to get the better of Ronda Rousey in any legit situation? I don't care if Ronda is crippled and on a wheel-chair, she's still beating Liv Morgan to a pulp.

I watched the two ladder matches and the cash in segment. The women’s MITB was a bit of a train reck to see the least and it was a difficult task for Becky and Asuka to hold things together, a big part of it was the lack of experience, Naomi and Sasha would have been ideal in this situation, company let them go like they were nothing. I had no issues with Liv winning as it’s a fresh name, but as history shows us first time winners don’t always get presented well.

With the cash in segment, Rousey was protected somewhat, perhaps they could have prolonged her injury or something but it wasn’t like she got beat clean as a whistle. With people like Rousey, Lesnar, Riddle, Corbin and Nakamura to an extent, we have to suspend our disbelief otherwise no one from pro wrestling without any sort of combat experience could handle themselves in a real fight. Liv is small but not Riho levels who was going over clean beating some dude. Who else could they have given that opportunity to besides the names who probably don’t need the belt? I am high on Gonzales but she has just come up and should let her get more main roster experience and build her up, huge potential to with the Hispanic audience

Main event ladder match, I had no issues with it personally. I thought it was fine for what it was and professional. Mizz wasn’t in the match btw the only reason I can think of why they avoided the likes of AJ and Balor is injury, these matches are horrible to work and very taxing on the body, if we consider their current injury woes it would have been a risk to put those guys in the match. We’re too accustomed to seeing and expecting the high flyers to carry the spots but I like the addition of power to, with that being said they don’t always go all out like they use to but felt like there were still more than enough high spots. Theory winning was a good result to, Riddle going over wouldn’t have been bad either

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I watched the two ladder matches and the cash in segment. The women’s MITB was a bit of a train reck to see the least and it was a difficult task for Becky and Asuka to hold things together, a big part of it was the lack of experience, Naomi and Sasha would have been ideal in this situation, company let them go like they were nothing. I had no issues with Liv winning as it’s a fresh name, but as history shows us first time winners don’t always get presented well.

With the cash in segment, Rousey was protected somewhat, perhaps they could have prolonged her injury or something but it wasn’t like she got beat clean as a whistle. With people like Rousey, Lesnar, Riddle, Corbin and Nakamura to an extent, we have to suspend our disbelief otherwise no one from pro wrestling without any sort of combat experience could handle themselves in a real fight. Liv is small but not Riho levels who was going over clean beating some dude. Who else could they have given that opportunity to besides the names who probably don’t need the belt? I am high on Gonzales but she has just come up and should let her get more main roster experience and build her up, huge potential to with the Hispanic audience

Main event ladder match, I had no issues with it personally. I thought it was fine for what it was and professional. Mizz wasn’t in the match btw the only reason I can think of why they avoided the likes of AJ and Balor is injury, these matches are horrible to work and very taxing on the body, if we consider their current injury woes it would have been a risk to put those guys in the match. We’re too accustomed to seeing and expecting the high flyers to carry the spots but I like the addition of power to, with that being said they don’t always go all out like they use to but felt like there were still more than enough high spots. Theory winning was a good result to, Riddle going over wouldn’t have been bad either

Without a doubt she is no Riho, but the physical difference between her and Ronda was too jarring for me personally. And its not like I have an issue with suspending disbelief, but like give me something to chew on. With Darby for example there is always something that makes me believe that this guy can compete. With Liv and Alexa Bliss, there's just nothing. They badly need Bayley back because with Charlotte out on a break, their Women's division is starting to look very thin. As for the match, honestly I wouldn't have minded Lacey Evans winning either.

It was by far the best match on the show, but there was just nothing here that differentiated it from every MITB match ever. You had the bowling pin spot, the bury the monster under tables, ladders or chairs spot, the every guy touches the briefcase but can't get it down spot. And after a certain point, it just felt like I had seen this match before...numerous times.

I don't mind the result. Atleast they are trying to build a star with Theory. But I do find it funny though that I saw the entire match without noticing that the Miz wasn't in it.

 

[shaz619]

Without a doubt she is no Riho, but the physical difference between her and Ronda was too jarring for me personally. And its not like I have an issue with suspending disbelief, but like give me something to chew on. With Darby for example there is always something that makes me believe that this guy can compete. With Liv and Alexa Bliss, there's just nothing. They badly need Bayley back because with Charlotte out on a break, their Women's division is starting to look very thin. As for the match, honestly I wouldn't have minded Lacey Evans winning either.

It was by far the best match on the show, but there was just nothing here that differentiated it from every MITB match ever. You had the bowling pin spot, the bury the monster under tables, ladders or chairs spot, the every guy touches the briefcase but can't get it down spot. And after a certain point, it just felt like I had seen this match before...numerous times.

I don't mind the result. Atleast they are trying to build a star with Theory. But I do find it funny though that I saw the entire match without noticing that the Miz wasn't in it.

You reckon, I always found Liv to be chunkier for a shorty Alexa use to compete as a body builder and comes off well due to her athletic background as a face and as a heel leans a lot on her personality and character work. The women’s division is strong overall great depth, contrary to their usual approach are giving fresh faces the limelight to see how it goes. Lacey Evans should have been champion on numerous occasions previously, was very hot as a face, let her gather more steam again imo With legitimacy in the ring in general, if people took the business as seriously as decades in the past the landscape would look completely different, the women would be valet’s unless exceptional in the ring physically and skill wise, guys like Darby would be fortunate to get the jobber opportunity and majority of the talent would need to have an above average mic ability the higher you go up the card. Wrestlers like Lesnar and Rousey would remain unbeaten forever untill that new Olympic gold medalist came along or something, I have more of a tolerance for it accepting how much it has changed and enjoy it more like T20’s but on the odd night may get something special.

I agree on the MITB, very little innovation or creativity. Part of if is injuries and working it safer but for the most part it’s over-saturation, they’ve done this so many times now that we’ve seen everything. The Covid MITB was one of the best recent times because it was something unusual and different. I would get rid of this PPV it feels odd in the middle of the year and save it for mania like in the past / would allow the booker to be willing to take more risks and put on a spectacle. But after WM ends they use the MITB gimmick to keep fans engaged, as a enthusiast I don’t think it keeps me as excited as it did before

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You reckon, I always found Liv to be chunkier for a shorty Alexa use to compete as a body builder and comes off well due to her athletic background as a face and as a heel leans a lot on her personality and character work. The women’s division is strong overall great depth, contrary to their usual approach are giving fresh faces the limelight to see how it goes. Lacey Evans should have been champion on numerous occasions previously, was very hot as a face, let her gather more steam again imo With legitimacy in the ring in general, if people took the business as seriously as decades in the past the landscape would look completely different, the women would be valet’s unless exceptional in the ring physically and skill wise, guys like Darby would be fortunate to get the jobber opportunity and majority of the talent would need to have an above average mic ability the higher you go up the card. Wrestlers like Lesnar and Rousey would remain unbeaten forever untill that new Olympic gold medalist came along or something, I have more of a tolerance for it accepting how much it has changed and enjoy it more like T20’s but on the odd night may get something special.

I agree on the MITB, very little innovation or creativity. Part of if is injuries and working it safer but for the most part it’s over-saturation, they’ve done this so many times now that we’ve seen everything. The Covid MITB was one of the best recent times because it was something unusual and different. I would get rid of this PPV it feels odd in the middle of the year and save it for mania like in the past / would allow the booker to be willing to take more risks and put on a spectacle. But after WM ends they use the MITB gimmick to keep fans engaged, as a enthusiast I don’t think it keeps me as excited as it did before

Yeah and they've totally devalued the gimmick too. I mean just look at the last few winners: Big E, Otis, Braun Strowman, Baron Corbin. None of them have gone on to have memorable reigns or become big names. And I think none besides Big E have even cashed-in successfully either. I know Brock won once in the middle there too but he made the whole thing look like a joke when he walked in near the end of the match.

The last time this briefcase mattered was when Moxley won it. And that was 6 years ago. I agree that its probably best if this match went back to WrestleMania. It always felt special when it was on Mania. And if its on WrestleMania, its a best case scenario because you can put alot of great workers (whom you may not necessarily have something for) into that match. And because its Mania you would likely have them trying to go out there and outperform each other. Which just sounds more exciting on paper than this.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I don't know about you guys but I thought Money in the Bank was easily the worst wrestling PPV I have seen all year.

There wasn't a single match here that I liked. But a few things really got on my nerves. Namely; 3 women's matches on the card, none of which were any good, Usos and Street Profits going 20+ minutes! A seemingly endless number of video packages, and a highly underwhelming Men's MITB ladder match.

I mean they have so much talent on their roster and this is the MITB ladder match they put together? I get that KO was injured, but what about Balor, AJ, Ricochet?? Are you seriously telling me that these guys can't make it in, but Miz, Omos and Madcap Moss can? What a joke.

And are we seriously supposed to believe that Liv Morgan who is 5'3, under 100 pounds and devoid of any discernible in-ring talent, is going to get the better of Ronda Rousey in any legit situation? I don't care if Ronda is crippled and on a wheel-chair, she's still beating Liv Morgan to a pulp.

Liv is not very good in ring or on mic but somehow she is super over with the crowd. Don't know why.

Plus I don't think she's going to hold on to the title longer than a month. She's simply going to job out to Charlotte in a week or two. They were probably trying to avoid a Ronda-Charlotte match so soon.

Both MITB matches were trainwreck but it was expected. The lineup of men this year was simply very left field especially for a ladder match.

I liked the Usos vs Street Profits match though. Dawkins got to shine for a change. All other matches were meh.

I simply can't stand Shotzi. Way too annoying and untalented. Tegan Nox was much better than her.

I liked the spooky promo which is presumably for Edge. Might well be a new character. So will be interesting to see how it goes.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Liv is not very good in ring or on mic but somehow she is super over with the crowd. Don't know why.

Plus I don't think she's going to hold on to the title longer than a month. She's simply going to job out to Charlotte in a week or two. They were probably trying to avoid a Ronda-Charlotte match so soon.

Both MITB matches were trainwreck but it was expected. The lineup of men this year was simply very left field especially for a ladder match.

I liked the Usos vs Street Profits match though. Dawkins got to shine for a change. All other matches were meh.

I simply can't stand Shotzi. Way too annoying and untalented. Tegan Nox was much better than her.

I liked the spooky promo which is presumably for Edge. Might well be a new character. So will be interesting to see how it goes.

Omos really brought down the Ladder match with his awful wrestling. That for me was an utterly baffling choice, even more than any of the others. Because the others can atleast move in a coordinated manner.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

AEW’s annual War Games match was a pretty big disappointment again, for the second year running. This was overcooked and overbooked to a fault. And while I won’t deny that there were plenty of fun moments and that Claudio stood out among a ton of sloppy B.S, the match in itself was a clusterf**k.

WarGames for me is one of the most interesting match concepts in wrestling. It’s built on such a simple premise: two teams of 5 men enter the ring one by one after 3–4-minute intervals. The match starts when both teams are in the ring but getting to the start of the match tends to be just as fun and exciting as the match, because you always have the heels with the man advantage getting the heat until both teams have the same number of guys on each side. It’s not rocket science!

Here first off, they had 6 on 6 which was already two guys too many. On top of that every single guy had to bring some stupid gimmick into the ring. In the middle, the match just fell apart when everyone was blown up and just hitting each other with fake looking punches that weren’t even connecting. And Mox I love you man, but this deathmatch obsession that you have makes you look like a low-rent indie bum working for a hot dog and a handshake, rather than one of the top-stars of a major pro-wrestling promotion. I mean I can understand the steel chair, I can even forgive the thumb tacks in a match like this. But broken glass? freakin’ chopsticks? Like, how much is too much? For the cherry on top they had to do yet another idiotic cage bump onto a crash pad, which could have been an inflatable children’s birthday party castle aswell based on how big it was. Funnily enough, it was supposed to be a table lol.

Coolest spot was Claudio swinging Jericho on the top of the cage. But altogether what a sloppy mess of a match.

I seriously hope that next year Chris Jericho isn’t in this match because he seems to be the common denominator in both misfires. And really if they want to learn a thing or two about how to do a good, modern War Games match, all they have to do is watch some of the matches that NXT has done.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

On the plus side, Christian Cage did amazing promo work yet again. Now that MJF, Punk and Danielson aren’t on the show, he is starting to become the best thing about it. And now he’s got Evil Luchasaurus by his side, who despite basically cosplaying Kane came off looking more serious than he has ever looked in an AEW ring. And by the end of his squash match (as much as I hate the uncoordinated Dinosaur) I genuinely felt that they could do something with him as a monster heel. Very intrigued to see where this goes. I think Christian should do a promo on Dynamite every week because the quality of promos on this show has definitely fallen off a cliff in the absence of MJF and Punk, and he’s the only one who can deliver something truly worth watching.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

AEW’s annual War Games match was a pretty big disappointment again, for the second year running. This was overcooked and overbooked to a fault. And while I won’t deny that there were plenty of fun moments and that Claudio stood out among a ton of sloppy B.S, the match in itself was a clusterf**k.

WarGames for me is one of the most interesting match concepts in wrestling. It’s built on such a simple premise: two teams of 5 men enter the ring one by one after 3–4-minute intervals. The match starts when both teams are in the ring but getting to the start of the match tends to be just as fun and exciting as the match, because you always have the heels with the man advantage getting the heat until both teams have the same number of guys on each side. It’s not rocket science!

Here first off, they had 6 on 6 which was already two guys too many. On top of that every single guy had to bring some stupid gimmick into the ring. In the middle, the match just fell apart when everyone was blown up and just hitting each other with fake looking punches that weren’t even connecting. And Mox I love you man, but this deathmatch obsession that you have makes you look like a low-rent indie bum working for a hot dog and a handshake, rather than one of the top-stars of a major pro-wrestling promotion. I mean I can understand the steel chair, I can even forgive the thumb tacks in a match like this. But broken glass? freakin’ chopsticks? Like, how much is too much? For the cherry on top they had to do yet another idiotic cage bump onto a crash pad, which could have been an inflatable children’s birthday party castle aswell based on how big it was. Funnily enough, it was supposed to be a table lol.

Coolest spot was Claudio swinging Jericho on the top of the cage. But altogether what a sloppy mess of a match.

I seriously hope that next year Chris Jericho isn’t in this match because he seems to be the common denominator in both misfires. And really if they want to learn a thing or two about how to do a good, modern War Games match, all they have to do is watch some of the matches that NXT has done.

For some reason, I don't like Cesaro swing. Someone might throw up because of it someday.

 

[shaz619]

For some reason, I don't like Cesaro swing. Someone might throw up because of it someday.

I would pop for that ) ideally if it happened to Omega

 

[shaz619]

AEW’s annual War Games match was a pretty big disappointment again, for the second year running. This was overcooked and overbooked to a fault. And while I won’t deny that there were plenty of fun moments and that Claudio stood out among a ton of sloppy B.S, the match in itself was a clusterf**k.

WarGames for me is one of the most interesting match concepts in wrestling. It’s built on such a simple premise: two teams of 5 men enter the ring one by one after 3–4-minute intervals. The match starts when both teams are in the ring but getting to the start of the match tends to be just as fun and exciting as the match, because you always have the heels with the man advantage getting the heat until both teams have the same number of guys on each side. It’s not rocket science!

Here first off, they had 6 on 6 which was already two guys too many. On top of that every single guy had to bring some stupid gimmick into the ring. In the middle, the match just fell apart when everyone was blown up and just hitting each other with fake looking punches that weren’t even connecting. And Mox I love you man, but this deathmatch obsession that you have makes you look like a low-rent indie bum working for a hot dog and a handshake, rather than one of the top-stars of a major pro-wrestling promotion. I mean I can understand the steel chair, I can even forgive the thumb tacks in a match like this. But broken glass? freakin’ chopsticks? Like, how much is too much? For the cherry on top they had to do yet another idiotic cage bump onto a crash pad, which could have been an inflatable children’s birthday party castle aswell based on how big it was. Funnily enough, it was supposed to be a table lol.

Coolest spot was Claudio swinging Jericho on the top of the cage. But altogether what a sloppy mess of a match.

I seriously hope that next year Chris Jericho isn’t in this match because he seems to be the common denominator in both misfires. And really if they want to learn a thing or two about how to do a good, modern War Games match, all they have to do is watch some of the matches that NXT has done.

I watched the youtube highlights, it seemed ok especially for free TV, but there seemed to be a lack of organisation but I can’t comment on the overall match. Did Mox blade again lol

Also, how do AEW get away with doing this match from an IP perspective? as WWE hold the rights to WAR GAMES, do WWE get away simply by adding the ceiling which again could be argued is a HIAC spinoff.

The NXT WarGames matches on the Takeover PPV’s were breathtaking and built up so well / had a simplified narrative and helped follow the action, wish I saw them live. I’ve not really got into the AEW incarnation but seems like just doing the match for a ratings pop, again this view could lack objectivity because I haven’t really been given enough of a reason to go out of my way to watch these matches

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I watched the youtube highlights, it seemed ok especially for free TV, but there seemed to be a lack of organisation but I can’t comment on the overall match. Did Mox blade again lol

Also, how do AEW get away with doing this match from an IP perspective? as WWE hold the rights to WAR GAMES, do WWE get away simply by adding the ceiling which again could be argued is a HIAC spinoff.

The NXT WarGames matches on the Takeover PPV’s were breathtaking and built up so well / had a simplified narrative and helped follow the action, wish I saw them live. I’ve not really got into the AEW incarnation but seems like just doing the match for a ratings pop, again this view could lack objectivity because I haven’t really been given enough of a reason to go out of my way to watch these matches

Ofcourse he did lol. This match was Mox unleased, giving into all his worst impulses that make people forget that he isn't still working for CZW.

So as far as I can tell, WWE owns the name rights. But I don't think you can necessarily copyright a match type. I remember that TNA used to do TLC matches all the time and just called them Full Metal Mayhem. AEW came up with the name of this match after Vince called them "a blood and guts promotion".

Yeah agreed. One thing that I love is how massive their steel cages are. Only HIAC can be compared to them in size. Plus, with the talent that they have on their roster, they can easily put together a simple but awesome War Games match. But Jericho's involvement in both cases has massively brought these matches down for me. He's always doing stupid, fake s**t in these matches that take you out of the match. Whether its openly blading infront of the camera (which he did last time), asking refs if they are on break without realizing that a camera is right next to him, going through crash pads, hitting guys with fake looking baseball bat shots...the list just goes on and on.

All they have to do is get two teams with some of the best wrestlers in the company together and book a simple and logical match. Don't gimmick it up. The rest of the stuff will take care of itself.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

For some reason, I don't like Cesaro swing. Someone might throw up because of it someday.

I would pop for that ) ideally if it happened to Omega

Lmao you should have seen Jericho's face as Claudio was swinging him on top of the cage 20 feet in the air. This man had the fear of God in him.

 

[shaz619]

Ofcourse he did lol. This match was Mox unleased, giving into all his worst impulses that make people forget that he isn't still working for CZW.

So as far as I can tell, WWE owns the name rights. But I don't think you can necessarily copyright a match type. I remember that TNA used to do TLC matches all the time and just called them Full Metal Mayhem. AEW came up with the name of this match after Vince called them "a blood and guts promotion".

Yeah agreed. One thing that I love is how massive their steel cages are. Only HIAC can be compared to them in size. Plus, with the talent that they have on their roster, they can easily put together a simple but awesome War Games match. But Jericho's involvement in both cases has massively brought these matches down for me. He's always doing stupid, fake s**t in these matches that take you out of the match. Whether its openly blading infront of the camera (which he did last time), asking refs if they are on break without realizing that a camera is right next to him, going through crash pads, hitting guys with fake looking baseball bat shots...the list just goes on and on.

All they have to do is get two teams with some of the best wrestlers in the company together and book a simple and logical match. Don't gimmick it up. The rest of the stuff will take care of itself.

I don’t even recall Mox blading as badly as he is now back in CZW. He forgets that while the spots in those death matches added to his character, it was his psychological Jake Roberts / Mankind like promo work which really got him over on another level, this was one of the aspects of his work I was most looking forward to in AEW and he let me down big time, instead AEW turned into an unhinged platform for him to give into his worst tendencies between the ropes and it doesn’t make for the best viewing either.

Jericho basically thinks he is Terry Funk at this point and is going down that route, there are times when he wakes up and realises he needs to be Chris Jericho

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don’t even recall Mox blading as badly as he is now back in CZW. He forgets that while the spots in those death matches added to his character, it was his psychological Jake Roberts / Mankind like promo work which really got him over on another level, this was one of the aspects of his work I was most looking forward to in AEW and he let me down big time, instead AEW turned into an unhinged platform for him to give into his worst tendencies between the ropes and it doesn’t make for the best viewing either.

Jericho basically thinks he is Terry Funk at this point and is going down that route, there are times when he wakes up and realises he needs to be Chris Jericho

Tbh, I think Mox's promo work has come a long way from "I'm a Sick Guy". He has alot more bass in his voice and what I really like about his promos is that he can get his point across really well even when he is alluding to stuff and deliberately trying to not be direct. One of the best examples in recent times was right before he went to rehab and he was teasing a heel turn in his promos without outright doing or saying something heelish. And then ofcourse its the delivery too...that slightly unhinged Jake/Mankind way of talking. So for me, he is still one of the best promos in the business because nobody does promos like him. But its like he just can't move out of that minor league, indie, deathmatch mindset.

Just look at him right now. He is AEW's World Champion at a time when guys are literally dropping like flies because of injuries. He is pretty much the only major name left standing right now that they can draw big matches and ratings off. And later this month he's going to be back at Garbage Championship Wrestling defending their title. What happens if he gets injured going through a glassdoor or mutilating himself? Back in the day the World Champion of a major promotion had a responsibility to try his best to not get hurt. This feels like going out of your way to do so. And for what? A f***kin' two bit deathmatch promotion that draws 200 people in a barn....on a big show!

Terry was atleast himself through and through. Chris has seemingly gotten rid of all the best aspects of his personality that made him a wrestling genius for years and years. It's like all those instincts are just gone. His stuff usually feels like a watered down version of Attitude Era WWE. I had high hopes from this Jericho Appreciation Society stable because for the first couple of weeks it was fairly good. But now even this has basically become a rehash of Inner Circle.