The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] btw what do you think of Taz's son Hook?

Personally, I think he's absolutely amazing and has box-office written all over him. Ofcourse till now, he has been getting over with the Taz/Goldberg booking so you can't really comment on his in-ring ability but the presentation is very much on point and the kid has a remarkable amount of natural charisma for someone who doesn't speak a word. I also think that with someone like Taz guiding him every step of the way, he has a bright future ahead of him.

I wasn't too happy about Ricky getting beat that quick this week but I thought they were still able to salvage that with Ricky delivering that promo, turning face and then having Hobbs turn on him. Interested to see how Starks does as a babyface singles star. Hopefully, he can get an actual push this time around and be involved in interesting programs instead of being an afterthought on the show.

He’s a great prospect no doubt about that, am always excited for any 2nd or 3rd gen talent because a wrestling family can help bridge various gaps in a way which is otherwise not possible. His presentation and booking have been great, can’t say I’ve paid enough attention because there are too many factions and alliances in AEW for my liking, but he is very athletic and has useful experience outside of the world of pro wrestling which is a big advantage. Having Tazz in his corner certainly helps, otherwise he’d get lost in the shuffle or be subjected to the disastrous booking of Tony Khan, I can’t help but feel someone like Hook would benefit in abundance from something like the performance centre but for now Tazz, has taken good care and I believe Cody was helping him to while he was there. Hook has a strong character which is fundamentally important and his ring work has potential, I love his aggression and intensity.

I think this is great for both Starks and Hooks personally, take a bit of attention away from the factions and focus a little more on their singles narrative, for Starks especially, as dissapointing as it may have been for him to turn as he just scratched the surface as a heel, I think as face he is going to shock a lot of people, in NWA Powerr his promo work as a face reminded me a little of Dusty. This guy was being boo’d to bits by the autistic AEW fans who obviously were routing for Hook as he’s a heel it’s probably a cool thing to do for them or whatever, but Starks won them over with his promo, winning that crowd of nonces just shows where his ability is, Starks is right, his time should be now, a talent like that has been friggin wasted but hope this new push sets things straight

I watched the SS main event btw, they couldn’t possibly have messed a last man standing match it was bound to be entertaining but even then exceeded my expectations a little and was a great spectacle, when Lesnar is gone smarks wont realise what they had, the most unique wrestler this century and a genuine once in a generation talent maybe not even a generation, he is a freak man. Thoroughly enjoyed that match, would have loved it if I were in a stadium

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I don't disagree with you. He's nowhere near MJF, Wardlow, Starks, Darby. I would even say that Yuta is significantly better than him in the ring. And you're completely right that those guys would have benefitted much more from this rub than Garcia. But at the end of the day, Bryan is high on him so I can understand and rationalize it. What I can't understand or rationalize is how the match was booked.

Thing with Jericho is that now its not just one or two cases. Its a pattern. Someone on the internet pointed out how Jericho always latches himself on to whoever is hot in AEW, and keeps a hold of them until he ruins and destroys all their momentum. Alot of wrestling fans may not like Orange Cassidy, but he has been one of AEW's hottest acts from the very beginning. Jericho latches himself on to him and has that awful feud which ends with a match where you have to throw the other guy in a vat of orange juice or something. Then he latched himself on to MJF. And had that atrocious year-long feud that just wouldn't end. Just the s**ttiest rip-off of Attitude Era WWE week after week after week. It was probably one of the reasons why I stopped watching AEW altogether for some time there. Somehow though MJF managed to come out of that feud unscathed. And then ofcourse, Jericho latched himself on to Eddie. Last year Eddie was one of the most over guys in AEW. He was going toe to toe with Punk, delivering fire promos week after week...even with guys like MJF, Punk, Mox on the roster, he was the best for a moment in time there. The fans loved him because he felt authentic and real. And then he has this feud with Jericho that's been gong on for 5 or 6 freakin' months now and all his momentum is completely dead in the water.

Jericho does have the ability to come up with good stuff every now and then. The Anarchy in the Arena match was very different and unique...even the first match he had with Kingston was outstanding, and his best match in years. But the ratio of good stuff to awful/atrocious stuff is too heavily tilted on one side. Jericho for me has started believing his own hype a little too much. He is insufferable to listen to in these AEW media scrums where he thinks he is some kind of artist painting these masterpieces. He thinks everything he comes up with is just the most brilliant thing ever. But really its just the same s**t rehashed over and over again. He can spend all the money on trademarks that he wants, at the end of the day has the same gimmick he had since Dynamite went on air, his new group is just another reboot of the Inner Circle. I guess the only thing that has really changed is that his ability in the ring has fallen off a cliff because now this idiot can't even blade without being in full view of the camera while yelling out instructions. I mean how lazy can you get lol?

For over two years now his segments on Dynamite have consistently been the worst thing on the show. Yes, even worse than heel champ Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks acting like 15 year olds. And thing is, now they are starting to stand-out more than ever because you do see how much better the segments involving Punk or MJF or FTR or Christian Cage are.

And that match with Kingston was the breaking point for me personally. Not only was it an overbooked pile of garbage with so many botches and lazy B.S. But it ended with Jericho getting the win on Kingston. In what universe is that logical booking?? Kingston, the babyface is the one who made the match a Barbed Wire match so he could get his revenge on Jericho.

Jericho should have some shame and just retire. Because its obvious that Tony doesn't have the balls to tell Jericho like it is.

Been saying this for over a year now that Jericho is simply not the person he used to (or he is just showing his real colors now). He used to be a calm, collected and intelligent in regards to how he would conduct himself and how he would go about his career. He would be very soft spoken, was always talking highly of the new talent and always saw his limitations and utilizing them to max like going part time after 2012 in order to keep his body and mind fresh. The list stuff was incredible, even his feud with AJ was top notch in terms of match quality. But ever since his match with Omega at Wrestlekingdom, he's just sort of become arrogant in thinking he's better than he really is in the ring now. His Painmaker and Wizard gimmicks have been nothing tbh. Le Champion was good and that's where he should have left off after losing to Mox and handing him the reigns to be the top guy of AEW. What actually happened was he thought himself to be a GOAT putting matches of the years on weekly basis when it was far from the truth. He started throwing vitriol on every one else as well whether through his podcast, social media, promos or whatever.

I think he's consuming way too much alcohol since he went full time with AEW. His body is in the worst shape of his life, he's probably the fattest he's ever been. He's making a lot of botches in his matches and stuff.

I don't see him returning to WWE now under Trips as he legit hates him. He's buried him over their argument over the festival of friendship segment a lot of times (even the broken skull sessions). With Vince gone, I don't see him getting the leverage that Vince gave him. His AEW deal is expiring next year.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

He’s a great prospect no doubt about that, am always excited for any 2nd or 3rd gen talent because a wrestling family can help bridge various gaps in a way which is otherwise not possible. His presentation and booking have been great, can’t say I’ve paid enough attention because there are too many factions and alliances in AEW for my liking, but he is very athletic and has useful experience outside of the world of pro wrestling which is a big advantage. Having Tazz in his corner certainly helps, otherwise he’d get lost in the shuffle or be subjected to the disastrous booking of Tony Khan, I can’t help but feel someone like Hook would benefit in abundance from something like the performance centre but for now Tazz, has taken good care and I believe Cody was helping him to while he was there. Hook has a strong character which is fundamentally important and his ring work has potential, I love his aggression and intensity.

I think this is great for both Starks and Hooks personally, take a bit of attention away from the factions and focus a little more on their singles narrative, for Starks especially, as dissapointing as it may have been for him to turn as he just scratched the surface as a heel, I think as face he is going to shock a lot of people, in NWA Powerr his promo work as a face reminded me a little of Dusty. This guy was being boo’d to bits by the autistic AEW fans who obviously were routing for Hook as he’s a heel it’s probably a cool thing to do for them or whatever, but Starks won them over with his promo, winning that crowd of nonces just shows where his ability is, Starks is right, his time should be now, a talent like that has been friggin wasted but hope this new push sets things straight

I watched the SS main event btw, they couldn’t possibly have messed a last man standing match it was bound to be entertaining but even then exceeded my expectations a little and was a great spectacle, when Lesnar is gone smarks wont realise what they had, the most unique wrestler this century and a genuine once in a generation talent maybe not even a generation, he is a freak man. Thoroughly enjoyed that match, would have loved it if I were in a stadium

SummerSlam was pretty good. Brock Roman was amazing finally.

Logan Paul is actually extremely good for a non wrestler and could soon become a proper wrestler.

Pat McAfee, that guy is literally better than Corbin in the ring and he's not even a full time worker.

Bayley's return was nice.

Edge's return and the whole angle was underwhelming. But I'd love a Balor-Edge singles match.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He’s a great prospect no doubt about that, am always excited for any 2nd or 3rd gen talent because a wrestling family can help bridge various gaps in a way which is otherwise not possible. His presentation and booking have been great, can’t say I’ve paid enough attention because there are too many factions and alliances in AEW for my liking, but he is very athletic and has useful experience outside of the world of pro wrestling which is a big advantage. Having Tazz in his corner certainly helps, otherwise he’d get lost in the shuffle or be subjected to the disastrous booking of Tony Khan, I can’t help but feel someone like Hook would benefit in abundance from something like the performance centre but for now Tazz, has taken good care and I believe Cody was helping him to while he was there. Hook has a strong character which is fundamentally important and his ring work has potential, I love his aggression and intensity.

I think this is great for both Starks and Hooks personally, take a bit of attention away from the factions and focus a little more on their singles narrative, for Starks especially, as dissapointing as it may have been for him to turn as he just scratched the surface as a heel, I think as face he is going to shock a lot of people, in NWA Powerr his promo work as a face reminded me a little of Dusty. This guy was being boo’d to bits by the autistic AEW fans who obviously were routing for Hook as he’s a heel it’s probably a cool thing to do for them or whatever, but Starks won them over with his promo, winning that crowd of nonces just shows where his ability is, Starks is right, his time should be now, a talent like that has been friggin wasted but hope this new push sets things straight

I watched the SS main event btw, they couldn’t possibly have messed a last man standing match it was bound to be entertaining but even then exceeded my expectations a little and was a great spectacle, when Lesnar is gone smarks wont realise what they had, the most unique wrestler this century and a genuine once in a generation talent maybe not even a generation, he is a freak man. Thoroughly enjoyed that match, would have loved it if I were in a stadium

Yeah I can definitely appreciate them for putting Hook over clean the way that they did. Upon reflection, Hobbs turning heel was probably the best way to give Starks an out. Now I guess we are going to witness the implosion of Team Taz, which frankly was one of the better factions in AEW from the very start. All good things must come to an end though I guess.

His promo this week and the one he did before that three way tag were outstanding babyface promos. I liked the previous one even more because at one point he was going all Ric Flair taking his clothes off lol but it was matched well by the intensity with which he delivered the promo. And yeah, there's definitely much more to be explored for him as a heel. But right now, the time seems right for a face turn. There's no denying though that he is one of the absolute top future prospects in wrestling today. For me, its MJF...daylight...Wardlow, Starks...daylight and then I'd say there's a few guys like Powerhouse Hobbs, Darby, Bron Breakker.

Yeah I concur on the SS main-event. They needed to give us something different from what we've already seen from this feud. And by gawd they did. It was a very fun match. An all-out brawl, which is exactly what it should have been. And I think above all, it felt like a main-event. Which is not something I could say for the Mania main-event

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

SummerSlam was pretty good. Brock Roman was amazing finally.

Logan Paul is actually extremely good for a non wrestler and could soon become a proper wrestler.

Pat McAfee, that guy is literally better than Corbin in the ring and he's not even a full time worker.

Bayley's return was nice.

Edge's return and the whole angle was underwhelming. But I'd love a Balor-Edge singles match.

Didn't love the show but the main-event definitely delivered the goods.

Logan Paul put on an incredible performance. I think he may even have won the fans over by the end. Definitely the best performance by a non-wrestler since the performance MacAfee put up against Cole.

Speaking of MacAfee, he was good but not as good here as he was in the match against Cole or Theory. Corbin, despite having the personality of cabbage is not a bad wrestler and can move around fairly well for a guy of his size. I think he does deserve credit for having a good match with a non-wrestler.

Yeah the Edge stuff was badly executed. They should have let Judgment Day get the win and as Balor was set to smash a chair on Rey's head, that's when Edge should have returned. Instead now they've completely buried the Judgment Day who have lost to the Mysterios twice. How are we supposed to take them seriously as a threat if they can't even win a match?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Been saying this for over a year now that Jericho is simply not the person he used to (or he is just showing his real colors now). He used to be a calm, collected and intelligent in regards to how he would conduct himself and how he would go about his career. He would be very soft spoken, was always talking highly of the new talent and always saw his limitations and utilizing them to max like going part time after 2012 in order to keep his body and mind fresh. The list stuff was incredible, even his feud with AJ was top notch in terms of match quality. But ever since his match with Omega at Wrestlekingdom, he's just sort of become arrogant in thinking he's better than he really is in the ring now. His Painmaker and Wizard gimmicks have been nothing tbh. Le Champion was good and that's where he should have left off after losing to Mox and handing him the reigns to be the top guy of AEW. What actually happened was he thought himself to be a GOAT putting matches of the years on weekly basis when it was far from the truth. He started throwing vitriol on every one else as well whether through his podcast, social media, promos or whatever.

I think he's consuming way too much alcohol since he went full time with AEW. His body is in the worst shape of his life, he's probably the fattest he's ever been. He's making a lot of botches in his matches and stuff.

I don't see him returning to WWE now under Trips as he legit hates him. He's buried him over their argument over the festival of friendship segment a lot of times (even the broken skull sessions). With Vince gone, I don't see him getting the leverage that Vince gave him. His AEW deal is expiring next year.

I had started seeing it during the start of the pandemic but tbh, Dynamite was so awful and borderline unwatchable back then that his stuff didn't seem that bad by comparison. But now that you do have some actual stars on this show and now that Cody's awful segments are long gone, Jericho's stuff sticks out like a sore thumb. Every week it somehow manages to be the most indulgent, self-aggrandizing piece of garbage that just goes on and on and on. And the worst thing about it is that he drags whoever he is involved down with him.

He has sadly become one of those guys that the business has left behind. He's out of touch but he doesn't want to admit it. And though AEW does owe alot to him for their initial success...because of the name value he brought to the company, he owes a lot to AEW too for making him relevant again.

And now that AEW has people like Punk, Danielson, Adam Cole, Joe, Claudio on their roster. Suddenly, Jericho doesn't seem that important anymore. And I think he knows it. Cody was in a similar position, participating in/producing awful segments and buying into his own inflated ego. But thing is, Cody even on his worst day, was not nearly as out of touch with reality as Jericho is right now. And Cody could pick his ball and go elsewhere because at the end of the day, he was still a hell of wrestler, promo and top-level star. The same cannot be said for Jericho anymore.

I hope Tony Khan has the balls to do the same thing with him that he did with Cody when he asks for more money. He probably won't but if he has any acumen as a businessman left, he will.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Didn't love the show but the main-event definitely delivered the goods.

Logan Paul put on an incredible performance. I think he may even have won the fans over by the end. Definitely the best performance by a non-wrestler since the performance MacAfee put up against Cole.

Speaking of MacAfee, he was good but not as good here as he was in the match against Cole or Theory. Corbin, despite having the personality of cabbage is not a bad wrestler and can move around fairly well for a guy of his size. I think he does deserve credit for having a good match with a non-wrestler.

Yeah the Edge stuff was badly executed. They should have let Judgment Day get the win and as Balor was set to smash a chair on Rey's head, that's when Edge should have returned. Instead now they've completely buried the Judgment Day who have lost to the Mysterios twice. How are we supposed to take them seriously as a threat if they can't even win a match?

Logan Paul might be hated by people for his social media stuff and boxing stuff etc but the guy has visibly put enormous effort to train as a wrestler and his fluidity in the ring showed that. He has my respect. The frog splash was pitch perfect and he did it better than many cheap imitations that a lot of wrestlers do these days. Before Mania he said that he doesn't need to train to work as a wrestler, I think that was simply something he said in character. I see no reason why he can't become a proper wrestler now.

McAfee is brilliant tbh. He has so much potential in the ring that this match looked that it underdelivered. I won't say Corbin carried him here. Pat has shown time after time that he can work a match by himself. He does a lot of spots though, something he will need to trim down if he starts wrestling more often.

His match with Theory and all that segment tbh was sports entertainment at its best. The entrances, the match, the atmosphere, the shenanigans, Austin's return etc. Don't think Pat can top that.

Regarding Edge, there really is not explanation as to why he was so friendly towards Mysterios all of a sudden and why is he a face now. He was cursing the crowd in the same segment he was kicked out of judgement day. Like getting beaten up made him realize he loves fans again. lol

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I had started seeing it during the start of the pandemic but tbh, Dynamite was so awful and borderline unwatchable back then that his stuff didn't seem that bad by comparison. But now that you do have some actual stars on this show and now that Cody's awful segments are long gone, Jericho's stuff sticks out like a sore thumb. Every week it somehow manages to be the most indulgent, self-aggrandizing piece of garbage that just goes on and on and on. And the worst thing about it is that he drags whoever he is involved down with him.

He has sadly become one of those guys that the business has left behind. He's out of touch but he doesn't want to admit it. And though AEW does owe alot to him for their initial success...because of the name value he brought to the company, he owes a lot to AEW too for making him relevant again.

And now that AEW has people like Punk, Danielson, Adam Cole, Joe, Claudio on their roster. Suddenly, Jericho doesn't seem that important anymore. And I think he knows it. Cody was in a similar position, participating in/producing awful segments and buying into his own inflated ego. But thing is, Cody even on his worst day, was not nearly as out of touch with reality as Jericho is right now. And Cody could pick his ball and go elsewhere because at the end of the day, he was still a hell of wrestler, promo and top-level star. The same cannot be said for Jericho anymore.

I hope Tony Khan has the balls to do the same thing with him that he did with Cody when he asks for more money. He probably won't but if he has any acumen as a businessman left, he will.

Tony is a ****** and won't be able to tell him i dont need you anymore.

Y2J is still amongst the ATGs of pro wrestling but this AEW run has been really awful to say the least. Especially since losing the AEW title.

He should go part time where he can be revered as a special attraction. It would work well in WWE still as he still has massive following and would only need to do that list gimmick to get over with the WWE audience. It's just that he has gone loco like Eddie used to say.

Regarding Cody, I think he himself was perfectly aware he was not getting the desired reactions. I think Cody knew himself that he shouldn't be winning all his feuds especially against the newcomers. But I think ever since the big signings of Punk, Bryan etc came up, his relation with Tony would have started to sour and Tony being a mark, decided to book him like that to force him to turn heel. But Cody refused and took the move that Tony and co thought was impossible that he decided to leave for WWE.

I also heard he was the only one who used to attend all the meetings as an EVP when they still had some power while Bucks and Omega weren't as regular as him. It appears that Cody acting like a good employee led to deterioration of his relations with the elite and the management and Tony probs took his grudge out that way.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah I can definitely appreciate them for putting Hook over clean the way that they did. Upon reflection, Hobbs turning heel was probably the best way to give Starks an out. Now I guess we are going to witness the implosion of Team Taz, which frankly was one of the better factions in AEW from the very start. All good things must come to an end though I guess.

His promo this week and the one he did before that three way tag were outstanding babyface promos. I liked the previous one even more because at one point he was going all Ric Flair taking his clothes off lol but it was matched well by the intensity with which he delivered the promo. And yeah, there's definitely much more to be explored for him as a heel. But right now, the time seems right for a face turn. There's no denying though that he is one of the absolute top future prospects in wrestling today. For me, its MJF...daylight...Wardlow, Starks...daylight and then I'd say there's a few guys like Powerhouse Hobbs, Darby, Bron Breakker.

Yeah I concur on the SS main-event. They needed to give us something different from what we've already seen from this feud. And by gawd they did. It was a very fun match. An all-out brawl, which is exactly what it should have been. And I think above all, it felt like a main-event. Which is not something I could say for the Mania main-event

Hook has a great look. He seems to be a wrestler who would be extremely popular among the younger fans.

What are they really doing with MJF. His pipebomb seems like a lifetime ago.

Regarding Darby, he seriously needs to change his attire, he looks like a teenage goth girl with denim shorts over tights. Then, there's a lot wrong with his reckless style as well but I doubt he would be willing to listen to anyone regarding that.

 

[shaz619]

Tony is a ****** and won't be able to tell him i dont need you anymore.

Y2J is still amongst the ATGs of pro wrestling but this AEW run has been really awful to say the least. Especially since losing the AEW title.

He should go part time where he can be revered as a special attraction. It would work well in WWE still as he still has massive following and would only need to do that list gimmick to get over with the WWE audience. It's just that he has gone loco like Eddie used to say.

Regarding Cody, I think he himself was perfectly aware he was not getting the desired reactions. I think Cody knew himself that he shouldn't be winning all his feuds especially against the newcomers. But I think ever since the big signings of Punk, Bryan etc came up, his relation with Tony would have started to sour and Tony being a mark, decided to book him like that to force him to turn heel. But Cody refused and took the move that Tony and co thought was impossible that he decided to leave for WWE.

I also heard he was the only one who used to attend all the meetings as an EVP when they still had some power while Bucks and Omega weren't as regular as him. It appears that Cody acting like a good employee led to deterioration of his relations with the elite and the management and Tony probs took his grudge out that way.

Bit harsh on Jericho, I know some spite him because he left the E but he will always be a legend. This guy has consistently delivered at a high level for so long and his first run as AEW champion was brilliant. This is the first time since maybe 2005 where his career is at a low point but he should still be given some leeway because he has earned that at the very least, he can afford to have a bad phase. Unlike Hunter’s entire career, 4/10 after 4/10 doing the abdominal stretch, doing a bhangra with the Indians and cutting the same old am the game uhhh promo harleyyy raceeee uhhh flaire uhh student of putting the fans to sleep more like it. 4/10 wont live long enough to make enough of a change in the E, so there is always the chance Jericho could return but while 4/10 is there, offcourse his ego would never allow it, he buried Jericho at every chance he got and stole his push in the early 2000’s, he simply couldn’t bare that he could never be as over as Jericho

 

[shaz619]

Tony Khan is the common factor in all these guys performing at their worst

 

[shaz619]

Logan Paul might be hated by people for his social media stuff and boxing stuff etc but the guy has visibly put enormous effort to train as a wrestler and his fluidity in the ring showed that. He has my respect. The frog splash was pitch perfect and he did it better than many cheap imitations that a lot of wrestlers do these days. Before Mania he said that he doesn't need to train to work as a wrestler, I think that was simply something he said in character. I see no reason why he can't become a proper wrestler now.

McAfee is brilliant tbh. He has so much potential in the ring that this match looked that it underdelivered. I won't say Corbin carried him here. Pat has shown time after time that he can work a match by himself. He does a lot of spots though, something he will need to trim down if he starts wrestling more often.

His match with Theory and all that segment tbh was sports entertainment at its best. The entrances, the match, the atmosphere, the shenanigans, Austin's return etc. Don't think Pat can top that.

Regarding Edge, there really is not explanation as to why he was so friendly towards Mysterios all of a sudden and why is he a face now. He was cursing the crowd in the same segment he was kicked out of judgement day. Like getting beaten up made him realize he loves fans again. lol

Logan Paul and Bad Bunny are everything wrong with pro wrestling today, they are evidence of everything wrong with pro wrestling, he would be perfect in AEW it’s the sort of style hipster smarks ejaculate over, high spot after high spot, it is just evidence that in todays world to be over as a worker you just need to be a good athlete and have some nice high spots in your bag, it is so easy to monkey around so I disagree massively on that one. I am shocked really that even enthusiasts are starting to mark out for these guys, don’t fall for it, they are not remotely as good as folk would have you believe, after 2 matches, jesus christ he must be the new Kurt Angle and Lesnar combined in one. The fact that he even got the rub over a vet is a spit in the face of those who can actually work and is an insult, it makes raslin even more fake and I know kayfabe is dead but 4/10 took the pee wee there

 

[shaz619]

Yeah I can definitely appreciate them for putting Hook over clean the way that they did. Upon reflection, Hobbs turning heel was probably the best way to give Starks an out. Now I guess we are going to witness the implosion of Team Taz, which frankly was one of the better factions in AEW from the very start. All good things must come to an end though I guess.

His promo this week and the one he did before that three way tag were outstanding babyface promos. I liked the previous one even more because at one point he was going all Ric Flair taking his clothes off lol but it was matched well by the intensity with which he delivered the promo. And yeah, there's definitely much more to be explored for him as a heel. But right now, the time seems right for a face turn. There's no denying though that he is one of the absolute top future prospects in wrestling today. For me, its MJF...daylight...Wardlow, Starks...daylight and then I'd say there's a few guys like Powerhouse Hobbs, Darby, Bron Breakker.

Yeah I concur on the SS main-event. They needed to give us something different from what we've already seen from this feud. And by gawd they did. It was a very fun match. An all-out brawl, which is exactly what it should have been. And I think above all, it felt like a main-event. Which is not something I could say for the Mania main-event

I would never put Wardlow on a level playing field as Starks at all in terms of potential, Wardlow got the backing of creative while Starks not as much but in terms of talent there isn’t a comparison, Starks is vastly more gifted as an all round performer.

In recent years the best new folk I’ve seen gain prominence in the ring/mic or with their potential would be:

MJF
Starks
Velveteen Dream (sad what happened)
Ciampa
Cole (Again RIP after becoming at the mercy of Tony Khan)

Then I’d consider looking at someone like a Wardlow, I may potentially put him in the same bracket as Theory but his ceiling is much higher

Yeah the SS main event had AE era vibes to it

Glad to see the return of Iyo Shirai

 

[shaz619]

Tony Khan thinks he is Vince and Bill Watts combined in one when he is more like Vince Russo and Eric Bischoff

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Bit harsh on Jericho, I know some spite him because he left the E but he will always be a legend. This guy has consistently delivered at a high level for so long and his first run as AEW champion was brilliant. This is the first time since maybe 2005 where his career is at a low point but he should still be given some leeway because he has earned that at the very least, he can afford to have a bad phase. Unlike Hunter’s entire career, 4/10 after 4/10 doing the abdominal stretch, doing a bhangra with the Indians and cutting the same old am the game uhhh promo harleyyy raceeee uhhh flaire uhh student of putting the fans to sleep more like it. 4/10 wont live long enough to make enough of a change in the E, so there is always the chance Jericho could return but while 4/10 is there, offcourse his ego would never allow it, he buried Jericho at every chance he got and stole his push in the early 2000’s, he simply couldn’t bare that he could never be as over as Jericho

I don't like Trips either. Both Y2J and him have a lot of personal fallacies. And pretty sure they still hate each other.

But the thing is Jericho has run out of steam in AEW since losing the title. He literally doesn't do anything now. Although the MJF storyline was good, it was way overstretched. He's just not the same guy he was 5-6 years ago. He used to be one of the most likeable people in the business, now all he does is throw vitriol at others. Doesn't take criticism that he is not good enough in the ring or in shape anymore.

I said it last year that Jericho has nothing left to do in AEW anymore and should go back to WWE where he could be utilized much better as a part timer. But he has instead chosen to wrestle week in week out with his body of work deteriorating. He is still amongst the best promos in the world though. Like for example, jericho criticized balor and kyle o reilly last year after their match saying all they do is injure each other and how guys in aew are better. But now Kyle is in AEW. The jericho of old would never throw a shade at his colleagues in that manner. Like he even praised Fandango in the past.

For Trips, I think he has vastly improved his image amongst the core audience since starting NXT. He may or may not have improved as a human being but his PR has become a lot better in recent years though. The stuff he did in the heyday is absolutely shambolic though with someone as nice as Dwayne who's never spoken a bad word about any colleague in public hinted at the backstage politicking trips did against him.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Logan Paul and Bad Bunny are everything wrong with pro wrestling today, they are evidence of everything wrong with pro wrestling, he would be perfect in AEW it’s the sort of style hipster smarks ejaculate over, high spot after high spot, it is just evidence that in todays world to be over as a worker you just need to be a good athlete and have some nice high spots in your bag, it is so easy to monkey around so I disagree massively on that one. I am shocked really that even enthusiasts are starting to mark out for these guys, don’t fall for it, they are not remotely as good as folk would have you believe, after 2 matches, jesus christ he must be the new Kurt Angle and Lesnar combined in one. The fact that he even got the rub over a vet is a spit in the face of those who can actually work and is an insult, it makes raslin even more fake and I know kayfabe is dead but 4/10 took the pee wee there

Don't know about Bad Bunny but Logan actually did show some good ring psychology in the match. It wasn't a spot fest. The original sequence of first Miz schooling him and then Logan doing one better was actually pretty good. No one's saying he is going to have bangers like Kurt did back in the day. It's quite obvious he's been training well for a while now.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I would never put Wardlow on a level playing field as Starks at all in terms of potential, Wardlow got the backing of creative while Starks not as much but in terms of talent there isn’t a comparison, Starks is vastly more gifted as an all round performer.

In recent years the best new folk I’ve seen gain prominence in the ring/mic or with their potential would be:

MJF
Starks
Velveteen Dream (sad what happened)
Ciampa
Cole (Again RIP after becoming at the mercy of Tony Khan)

Then I’d consider looking at someone like a Wardlow, I may potentially put him in the same bracket as Theory but his ceiling is much higher

Yeah the SS main event had AE era vibes to it

Glad to see the return of Iyo Shirai

I think Ciampa and Gargano shouldn't be considered among the new crop. They are just guys with over a decade of experience who just got some time in the limelight and made sure they made all the audience know how good they are.

Velveteen was brilliant. His personal choices turned out to be career killer for him.

I'd have Pete Dunne in there as well.

 

[shaz619]

Don't know about Bad Bunny but Logan actually did show some good ring psychology in the match. It wasn't a spot fest. The original sequence of first Miz schooling him and then Logan doing one better was actually pretty good. No one's saying he is going to have bangers like Kurt did back in the day. It's quite obvious he's been training well for a while now.

I mentioned Kurt Angle not due to his career because of how fast he took to the pro wrestling world, he was among a very small group of wrestlers who understood the psychology and developed his ring IQ pretty quickly, Austin has gone on record to say he hasn’t seen anyone adapt so fast, with Logan getting all these plaudits then he must be up there with Angle when we look at the speed at which he learned the ropes….

 

[shaz619]

I think Ciampa and Gargano shouldn't be considered among the new crop. They are just guys with over a decade of experience who just got some time in the limelight and made sure they made all the audience know how good they are.

Velveteen was brilliant. His personal choices turned out to be career killer for him.

I'd have Pete Dunne in there as well.

That’s why I said also those who gained prominence, they had their run before NXT but came into the lime light more in recent years, yeah Pete and can’t forget Tyler Bate or Walter as well during that time

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I mentioned Kurt Angle not due to his career because of how fast he took to the pro wrestling world, he was among a very small group of wrestlers who understood the psychology and developed his ring IQ pretty quickly, Austin has gone on record to say he hasn’t seen anyone adapt so fast, with Logan getting all these plaudits then he must be up there with Angle when we look at the speed at which he learned the ropes….

No No. The thing is Kurt was an athlete (a very good one as well, an olympian) who took up pro wrestling. Logan Paul is a celebrity. The guy has no experience in any sort of sports. Maybe he should be compared to someone like David Arquette or Stephen Amell. Like it's so relative. He had no business having a good smooth wrestling match in his second outing.

Like Kurt should be compared to maybe someone like Ken Shamrock who had an extensive background in MMA. Even there, Kurt stomps everyone else.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

That’s why I said also those who gained prominence, they had their run before NXT but came into the lime light more in recent years, yeah Pete and can’t forget Tyler Bate or Walter as well during that time

Among the new crop, I see a bright future for MJF and Starks. Tyler Bate, I honestly want him to do well as he is exceptional in the ring but suffers from lack of mic skills and a character that would appeal to the NA audience. I think Carmelo Hayes will have some success as well.

 

[shaz619]

No No. The thing is Kurt was an athlete (a very good one as well, an olympian) who took up pro wrestling. Logan Paul is a celebrity. The guy has no experience in any sort of sports. Maybe he should be compared to someone like David Arquette or Stephen Amell. Like it's so relative. He had no business having a good smooth wrestling match in his second outing.

Like Kurt should be compared to maybe someone like Ken Shamrock who had an extensive background in MMA. Even there, Kurt stomps everyone else.

Am all for celeb involvement when the rest of the card is not being buried and every wrestler on it.

How can any PPV paying customer be happy with that trash. Everything he did was so poorly executed, the technique was horrendous and he had nil ring IQ, the Mizz carried him.

I know the Paul’s have widely been suspected of swinging the other day but just think how some random bum who likes to wear pikachu cards around his neck, didn’t just go 50/50 with a vet, he beat him. It’s not just a burial of the Mizz who I know 4/10 always disliked (shook his hand after he won the title only when he knew the camera was rolling), but the entire industry as a whole, not even Bron Breaker got such a chance on a big 4 PPV yet and his dad is Big Poppa Pump. He should never have been booked.

What happened to our standards, this era is a joke

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Am all for celeb involvement when the rest of the card is not being buried and every wrestler on it.

How can any PPV paying customer be happy with that trash. Everything he did was so poorly executed, the technique was horrendous and he had nil ring IQ, the Mizz carried him.

I know the Paul’s have widely been suspected of swinging the other day but just think how some random bum who likes to wear pikachu cards around his neck, didn’t just go 50/50 with a vet, he beat him. It’s not just a burial of the Mizz who I know 4/10 always disliked (shook his hand after he won the title only when he knew the camera was rolling), but the entire industry as a whole, not even Bron Breaker got such a chance on a big 4 PPV yet and his dad is Big Poppa Pump. He should never have been booked.

What happened to our standards, this era is a joke

Well Vince believed a mainstream celebrity brings more viewers to the card. I definitely agree they shouldn't be put before the regular roster but the card had already been finalized before Vince stepped aside and Paul's contract probably gives him a lot of power etc in his storylines and stuff. So that's the reason why. That's the fault of the ones who signed him with a contract like that.

Bron's time will come. Although don't know if Hunter rates him as highly as Vince did.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Logan Paul and Bad Bunny are everything wrong with pro wrestling today, they are evidence of everything wrong with pro wrestling, he would be perfect in AEW it’s the sort of style hipster smarks ejaculate over, high spot after high spot, it is just evidence that in todays world to be over as a worker you just need to be a good athlete and have some nice high spots in your bag, it is so easy to monkey around so I disagree massively on that one. I am shocked really that even enthusiasts are starting to mark out for these guys, don’t fall for it, they are not remotely as good as folk would have you believe, after 2 matches, jesus christ he must be the new Kurt Angle and Lesnar combined in one. The fact that he even got the rub over a vet is a spit in the face of those who can actually work and is an insult, it makes raslin even more fake and I know kayfabe is dead but 4/10 took the pee wee there

I agree with you re: Bad Bunny and Logan Paul. There's no denying that this kind of stuff makes the business looks bad. And there's also no denying that was a very well-rehearsed match. Doing this week in and week out is not something that a hip-hop rapper, YouTube star or ex-NFL football player can just walk off the street and do. There's a reason it takes people years and years of training to even be passable at it.

That said though, as a one shot celeb singles match, this was a pretty outstanding effort imo. And I don't know him, care about him or care about this feud. But it wasn't just the high-spots...his timing was impeccable. His selling was way better of some of the guys on WWE and AEW's rosters. And he also seemed to take a moment to let things settle in and let the crowd react before he did more stuff. It wasn't just an endless barrage of high-spots that the spot monkeys these days are known for doing. Even his frog splash was almost picture perfect. I think the lad deserves credit for pulling it all off so well and I think the crowd acknowledged it as well which was the last thing I expected considering he was booed heavily throughout this feud, right up till the midpoint of of the match. And as much as I hate to say it, The Miz was not bad either here.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Logan Paul might be hated by people for his social media stuff and boxing stuff etc but the guy has visibly put enormous effort to train as a wrestler and his fluidity in the ring showed that. He has my respect. The frog splash was pitch perfect and he did it better than many cheap imitations that a lot of wrestlers do these days. Before Mania he said that he doesn't need to train to work as a wrestler, I think that was simply something he said in character. I see no reason why he can't become a proper wrestler now.

McAfee is brilliant tbh. He has so much potential in the ring that this match looked that it underdelivered. I won't say Corbin carried him here. Pat has shown time after time that he can work a match by himself. He does a lot of spots though, something he will need to trim down if he starts wrestling more often.

His match with Theory and all that segment tbh was sports entertainment at its best. The entrances, the match, the atmosphere, the shenanigans, Austin's return etc. Don't think Pat can top that.

Regarding Edge, there really is not explanation as to why he was so friendly towards Mysterios all of a sudden and why is he a face now. He was cursing the crowd in the same segment he was kicked out of judgement day. Like getting beaten up made him realize he loves fans again. lol

I wouldn't say that. At the end of the day it was a very well-rehearsed match. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But doing this week in and week out is not something you can just learn with a couple of months of training.

That's always going to be the deal with non-wrestlers though. People who are not properly trained to do this can only do it to a certain point before the wheels start coming off, which is what seemed to be happening here. Which I guess is also why its always best to keep these things down to one match. But because they've done such an awful job of creating stars they now have to rely on ex-football players and YouTube stars to draw money for them.

I didn't mind that all that much. They smashed his head with a chair so now he's coming back for revenge. It's the automatic babyface turn. He doesn't have to play to the fans to be liked by them because they empathize with his cause/situation. My issue had more to do with what I felt was bad booking. On top of that, it took Edge an eternity to get to the ring since they were in a stadium. All of this gaga would have been better suited at the end of the match. Not to mention, the crowd was completely dead for this match...which didn't help either.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I would never put Wardlow on a level playing field as Starks at all in terms of potential, Wardlow got the backing of creative while Starks not as much but in terms of talent there isn’t a comparison, Starks is vastly more gifted as an all round performer.

In recent years the best new folk I’ve seen gain prominence in the ring/mic or with their potential would be:

MJF
Starks
Velveteen Dream (sad what happened)
Ciampa
Cole (Again RIP after becoming at the mercy of Tony Khan)

Then I’d consider looking at someone like a Wardlow, I may potentially put him in the same bracket as Theory but his ceiling is much higher

Yeah the SS main event had AE era vibes to it

Glad to see the return of Iyo Shirai

There's no denying that Starks is vastly more talented than Wardlow. No question about it. But the thing about Wardlow is that he is not only liked by the hardcore AEW fanbase, but he can also have massive mainstream appeal. He could literally walk into any company in the world and get over just by doing his bare minimum.

Theory has the potential to be a good worker but I don't feel he is as advanced as Wardlow. He has many holes in his game. His punches are just not good and he does not seem to know how to get the heat on his opponents. I love the rolling drop-kick and his selling is good for someone of his age. But he is nowhere near ready to be anywhere near the main-event.

Oof amazing to think how far Cole has fallen since he was on NXT. He used to be a top-guy who was excellent on the mic and excellent in the ring. And ever since getting to AEW he has looked like a shadow of his former self in every single way.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Tony is a ****** and won't be able to tell him i dont need you anymore.

Y2J is still amongst the ATGs of pro wrestling but this AEW run has been really awful to say the least. Especially since losing the AEW title.

He should go part time where he can be revered as a special attraction. It would work well in WWE still as he still has massive following and would only need to do that list gimmick to get over with the WWE audience. It's just that he has gone loco like Eddie used to say.

Regarding Cody, I think he himself was perfectly aware he was not getting the desired reactions. I think Cody knew himself that he shouldn't be winning all his feuds especially against the newcomers. But I think ever since the big signings of Punk, Bryan etc came up, his relation with Tony would have started to sour and Tony being a mark, decided to book him like that to force him to turn heel. But Cody refused and took the move that Tony and co thought was impossible that he decided to leave for WWE.

I also heard he was the only one who used to attend all the meetings as an EVP when they still had some power while Bucks and Omega weren't as regular as him. It appears that Cody acting like a good employee led to deterioration of his relations with the elite and the management and Tony probs took his grudge out that way.

I think Cody wanted Punk money. And there's no way he was getting that. Nor should he have. The only two people in that company who have the right to ask for Punk money are Danielson and MJF. Nobody is as irreplicable and integral to AEW right now as Punk, Bryan and MJF.

Tbh I don't think Tony can be blamed for Cody's booking. Cody, Omega, Jericho and Bucks have largely been booking their own angles and segments with Tony having the final say. Fact is fans turned on Cody because he was doing awful segments where he was trying to be something he was not and the fans saw right through it. After a certain point it just became laughably bad. Because it wasn't just Cody, it was his untalented wife (who has become a meme online at this point) and the entire Cody entourage that would come out for these long, boring segments that went absolutely nowhere. The highlight was ofcourse that utterly tone-deaf "I'm going to have an interracial baby" promo but there were a number of other ones too.

And once the fans turned on him, then he went into full-on desperation mode. Rather than just turning heel---which was the right thing to do at that point---he instead went for: lighting himself on fire, taking crazy bumps and cutting smark promos. It was like he was trying to do all he could to be liked by the fans. And they hated him even more for that.

At the end of the day, it just probably wasn't a good fit. And right now, he is exactly where he should be. Because I've heard him say for years that his ultimate dream was to become WWE Champion. Ofcourse that's not to say that Cody didn't contribute heavily to AEW's birth and success. From All In to that match with Dustin on the first AEW PPV and numerous other memorable matches and moments...not to mention, he is the one who brought in guys like Eddie Kingston, Ricky Starks, Powerhouse Hobbs, Darby Allin and above all, MJF. Unlike the Bucks and Omega his entire focus wasn't to get his friends jobs even if they were (to borrow Cornette's line) untrained, outlaw, indie talent. So his contribution in regards to just bringing talent in is absolutely massive and something AEW will always be indebted to him for.

But he is someone who definitely belongs in WWE. And someone who can be one of their biggest stars if they manage to not screw him up.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Hook has a great look. He seems to be a wrestler who would be extremely popular among the younger fans.

What are they really doing with MJF. His pipebomb seems like a lifetime ago.

Regarding Darby, he seriously needs to change his attire, he looks like a teenage goth girl with denim shorts over tights. Then, there's a lot wrong with his reckless style as well but I doubt he would be willing to listen to anyone regarding that.

I don't mind Darby's look. Wasn't a fan initially but got used to it eventually. At the end of the day that's who he is dialed up to an 11. And I can respect that.

I want to believe that they have something mind-blowing planned with MJF. Ofcourse there's no guarantee that, that will actually be the case. But still, I want to believe that they actually know what they are doing with this one.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I wouldn't say that. At the end of the day it was a very well-rehearsed match. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But doing this week in and week out is not something you can just learn with a couple of months of training.

That's always going to be the deal with non-wrestlers though. People who are not properly trained to do this can only do it to a certain point before the wheels start coming off, which is what seemed to be happening here. Which I guess is also why its always best to keep these things down to one match. But because they've done such an awful job of creating stars they now have to rely on ex-football players and YouTube stars to draw money for them.

I didn't mind that all that much. They smashed his head with a chair so now he's coming back for revenge. It's the automatic babyface turn. He doesn't have to play to the fans to be liked by them because they empathize with his cause/situation. My issue had more to do with what I felt was bad booking. On top of that, it took Edge an eternity to get to the ring since they were in a stadium. All of this gaga would have been better suited at the end of the match. Not to mention, the crowd was completely dead for this match...which didn't help either.

Well they smashed his head, fine, he should come out for revenge on them. But why was acting so friendly all of a sudden with the Mysterios? I found that spot where he set up Balor for the 619 pretty nonsensical.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] No activity on this thread for a while.

What do you guys think of the inevitable new signings? I didn't personally liked Karrion Kross' return. Like he can't hang in with either Roman or Drew either in the ring or on mic. Don't know why Hunter rates him so highly.

If reports are to be believed, Bray's name is being discussed as well. (Another one I am not a big fan of)

Although I loved the little push Ciampa seems to be getting (he's one of trips favorites)

Hearing Gargano is also going to be brought back (Although I suspect Tony may have already signed him and keeping him for All Out or some surprise like with Cesaro)

The triple threat Ali vs Aj vs Miz was very refreshing for a change and felt like a good amalgam of black and gold style main roster talent.

One good thing that might not be getting some notice is Drew has stopped wearing that Scottish dress and has been cutting promos in casual like early 2020.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Gotta say man, WWE does feel different in the Triple H era. Someone like Tomasso Ciampa is getting a push after being treated like a no-name schlub for the past three months. On RAW, we are seeing fresh match-ups we haven't see a million times before, that are actually good too because they don't end in 5 minutes because of a count-out or a DQ. Karrion Kross is back without the S&M ring gear in a seemingly main-event position. And rumors are floating around that Gargano could be back soon too, while Dominik Dijakovic is in-line for a potential push.

And if that's not enough Omos and Veer Mahaan have been relegated to Main-Event. Even Michael Cole has started sounding like an actual human being ever since SummerSlam, and not a robot programmed to say company mandated buzz-words.

WWE programming feels more fresh and interesting than it has in ages. And even though he said he did not want to create another NXT, it seems alot like Triple H is elevating alot of the guys he pushed on NXT. That didn't exactly meet Vince's description of a top guy. Not that there is anything wrong with that. If anything, its a welcome change after seeing the same being rotated in the same positions.

Quite interested to see what Triple H's WWE looks like in the upcoming couple of months. I would think that a number of guys should be key beneficiaries of this change. Including guys like KO, Sami Zayn, WALTER, Ricochet, Balor, Priest.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] No activity on this thread for a while.

What do you guys think of the inevitable new signings? I didn't personally liked Karrion Kross' return. Like he can't hang in with either Roman or Drew either in the ring or on mic. Don't know why Hunter rates him so highly.

If reports are to be believed, Bray's name is being discussed as well. (Another one I am not a big fan of)

Although I loved the little push Ciampa seems to be getting (he's one of trips favorites)

Hearing Gargano is also going to be brought back (Although I suspect Tony may have already signed him and keeping him for All Out or some surprise like with Cesaro)

The triple threat Ali vs Aj vs Miz was very refreshing for a change and felt like a good amalgam of black and gold style main roster talent.

One good thing that might not be getting some notice is Drew has stopped wearing that Scottish dress and has been cutting promos in casual like early 2020.

You beat me to the punch haha. I was in the middle of writing a post on this exact same topic.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] No activity on this thread for a while.

What do you guys think of the inevitable new signings? I didn't personally liked Karrion Kross' return. Like he can't hang in with either Roman or Drew either in the ring or on mic. Don't know why Hunter rates him so highly.

If reports are to be believed, Bray's name is being discussed as well. (Another one I am not a big fan of)

Although I loved the little push Ciampa seems to be getting (he's one of trips favorites)

Hearing Gargano is also going to be brought back (Although I suspect Tony may have already signed him and keeping him for All Out or some surprise like with Cesaro)

The triple threat Ali vs Aj vs Miz was very refreshing for a change and felt like a good amalgam of black and gold style main roster talent.

One good thing that might not be getting some notice is Drew has stopped wearing that Scottish dress and has been cutting promos in casual like early 2020.

I've seen a fair bit of Karrion Kross, and while I agree with you that he is no technical wizard in the ring, nor someone who is going to be lighting the world on fire with his promos, he seems to have alot of the stuff down that you need to be successful in that main-event spot. He has the look, he's credible on the mic, the gimmick and the catchphrase work and the presentation and entrance make him feel like a big deal. Not to mention, he has his gorgeous wife by his side as his valet who adds alot to his presentation. I see him as a highly marketable main-event level guy with the right push and full support of the WWE machinery.

Really? You're not a fan of Bray? I mean I'm not surprised considering how he was booked during most of his WWE run or that preposterous feud with Randy Orton and Alexa Bliss that he was involved in before getting released, but personally I'm a big fan and a massive mark for his 'The Fiend' gimmick. For me, a guy of his creativity should be working for a major wrestling company (whether its AEW or WWE) so this news excites me considerably. He is also someone who should be given more of a creative license to do his thing, which he was not given during much of his post 2019 run...something that people have said made him very frustrated with the company. I mean the 2019 Hell in A Cell fiasco orchestrated by Vince is still fresh in everyone's memory. As are the memories of him being squashed by Goldberg, being burned alive by Orton and then being beaten like a chump in his last match.

Oh god. I hope Tony doesn't sign Johnny Gargano. AEW does not need another small underdog babyface wrestler like Gargano. Not only do they already have Darby, Jungle Boy, Yuta but their roster is stacked as it is. And eventhough I am not really a fan of Johnny Wrestling it seems obvious to me that he will have a much better shot of being successful under HHH then he will under Tony.

I'm assuming Ciampa will get a push and be established as an upper midcard guy going forward. This whole episode felt like a concentrated effort to establish him in the eyes of the fans in a major way. And a win over AJ Styles is something major.

Yeah I did notice that. He looks so much better with that look. Hopefully he can drop that stupid sword too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] A really funny thing happened in the last few days that you guys may have missed out on.

Our friendly neighborhood AEW shill Dave Meltzer was on Twitter running his mouth about what a joke the idea was that The Young Bucks were actively burying FTR. And how deluded the people who were saying this were. He was essentially quoting a tweet by some girl on Twitter who I guess is a Young Bucks fan. He couldn't even fathom the idea that two guys who have the reputation of being unprofessional, and have had issues with numerous individuals and organizations in the wrestling business, could bury FTR. Our good friend Dave even called such people Alex Jones types.

Well, not long after Dax Harwood replied to Dave on Twitter and told him to f**k off (lmao) and essentially told him to run his mouth when he knew both sides of the story instead of just one. I literally busted out laughing when I saw Dax's tweet. It was so hilarious because it one tweet he not only burned Dave but also launched a violent assault on his credibility as a so-called journalist.

https://wrestletalk.com/news/dax-harwood-tells-dave-meltzer-to-fk-off-on-twitter/

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] A really funny thing happened in the last few days that you guys may have missed out on.

Our friendly neighborhood AEW shill Dave Meltzer was on Twitter running his mouth about what a joke the idea was that The Young Bucks were actively burying FTR. And how deluded the people who were saying this were. He was essentially quoting a tweet by some girl on Twitter who I guess is a Young Bucks fan. He couldn't even fathom the idea that two guys who have the reputation of being unprofessional, and have had issues with numerous individuals and organizations in the wrestling business, could bury FTR. Our good friend Dave even called such people Alex Jones types.

Well, not long after Dax Harwood replied to Dave on Twitter and told him to f**k off (lmao) and essentially told him to run his mouth when he knew both sides of the story instead of just one. I literally busted out laughing when I saw Dax's tweet. It was so hilarious because it one tweet he not only burned Dave but also launched a violent assault on his credibility as a so-called journalist.

https://wrestletalk.com/news/dax-harwood-tells-dave-meltzer-to-fk-off-on-twitter/

Dave is at that point in his career where his reputation is no more than a dirtsheet reporter rather than a journalist. And he brought it upon himself. Ever since All In, he's become a little fan girl. He admitted to crying after watching Cody vs Dustin.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I've seen a fair bit of Karrion Kross, and while I agree with you that he is no technical wizard in the ring, nor someone who is going to be lighting the world on fire with his promos, he seems to have alot of the stuff down that you need to be successful in that main-event spot. He has the look, he's credible on the mic, the gimmick and the catchphrase work and the presentation and entrance make him feel like a big deal. Not to mention, he has his gorgeous wife by his side as his valet who adds alot to his presentation. I see him as a highly marketable main-event level guy with the right push and full support of the WWE machinery.

Really? You're not a fan of Bray? I mean I'm not surprised considering how he was booked during most of his WWE run or that preposterous feud with Randy Orton and Alexa Bliss that he was involved in before getting released, but personally I'm a big fan and a massive mark for his 'The Fiend' gimmick. For me, a guy of his creativity should be working for a major wrestling company (whether its AEW or WWE) so this news excites me considerably. He is also someone who should be given more of a creative license to do his thing, which he was not given during much of his post 2019 run...something that people have said made him very frustrated with the company. I mean the 2019 Hell in A Cell fiasco orchestrated by Vince is still fresh in everyone's memory. As are the memories of him being squashed by Goldberg, being burned alive by Orton and then being beaten like a chump in his last match.

Oh god. I hope Tony doesn't sign Johnny Gargano. AEW does not need another small underdog babyface wrestler like Gargano. Not only do they already have Darby, Jungle Boy, Yuta but their roster is stacked as it is. And eventhough I am not really a fan of Johnny Wrestling it seems obvious to me that he will have a much better shot of being successful under HHH then he will under Tony.

I'm assuming Ciampa will get a push and be established as an upper midcard guy going forward. This whole episode felt like a concentrated effort to establish him in the eyes of the fans in a major way. And a win over AJ Styles is something major.

Yeah I did notice that. He looks so much better with that look. Hopefully he can drop that stupid sword too.

Yes Karrion is a marketable guy and can be a big merch seller. I guess that's why Trips loves him. But I find it hard to see him as someone alongside the ranks of Roman, Seth or Drew. Like even on NXT, him beating everyone didn't sit right with me. Although I think the guy himself is a great and nice dude. Not a big fan of Scarlett, she looks way too similar to Eva Green (someone I don't like ) But I think Scarlett is a pretty good in ring worker something that's never mentioned.

Nah. I like Windham Rotunda and his creative mind and the gimmicks he comes up with and stuff, but he has never had a match I would remember for being a modern classic. Like even before The Fiend, he had a series of matches against Seth and Finn(two very good workers) but he never had a great match. IMO the best match he had was against Roman in 2015 (HIAC)

Ciampa is awesome. I would love a Randy-Ciampa feud.

Plus Ricochet is definitely getting a push now. Heard Trips went out of his way back in 2018 to sign him.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Gotta say man, WWE does feel different in the Triple H era. Someone like Tomasso Ciampa is getting a push after being treated like a no-name schlub for the past three months. On RAW, we are seeing fresh match-ups we haven't see a million times before, that are actually good too because they don't end in 5 minutes because of a count-out or a DQ. Karrion Kross is back without the S&M ring gear in a seemingly main-event position. And rumors are floating around that Gargano could be back soon too, while Dominik Dijakovic is in-line for a potential push.

And if that's not enough Omos and Veer Mahaan have been relegated to Main-Event. Even Michael Cole has started sounding like an actual human being ever since SummerSlam, and not a robot programmed to say company mandated buzz-words.

WWE programming feels more fresh and interesting than it has in ages. And even though he said he did not want to create another NXT, it seems alot like Triple H is elevating alot of the guys he pushed on NXT. That didn't exactly meet Vince's description of a top guy. Not that there is anything wrong with that. If anything, its a welcome change after seeing the same being rotated in the same positions.

Quite interested to see what Triple H's WWE looks like in the upcoming couple of months. I would think that a number of guys should be key beneficiaries of this change. Including guys like KO, Sami Zayn, WALTER, Ricochet, Balor, Priest.

Actually it's great that Omos, Veer etc are going to get relegated.

Dijak is very good IMO. Probably as good as Keith Lee but doesn't get the credit cause he isn't as big.

Hopefully Finn will get better storylines as well as he's been the guy that put NXT on the scene as a box office.

If Trips can do 70% of what NXT was back in 2017-19, WWE will be extremely fun to watch. There will definitely be constraints from the big executives as they would want more marketable guys on the top.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes Karrion is a marketable guy and can be a big merch seller. I guess that's why Trips loves him. But I find it hard to see him as someone alongside the ranks of Roman, Seth or Drew. Like even on NXT, him beating everyone didn't sit right with me. Although I think the guy himself is a great and nice dude. Not a big fan of Scarlett, she looks way too similar to Eva Green (someone I don't like ) But I think Scarlett is a pretty good in ring worker something that's never mentioned.

Nah. I like Windham Rotunda and his creative mind and the gimmicks he comes up with and stuff, but he has never had a match I would remember for being a modern classic. Like even before The Fiend, he had a series of matches against Seth and Finn(two very good workers) but he never had a great match. IMO the best match he had was against Roman in 2015 (HIAC)

Ciampa is awesome. I would love a Randy-Ciampa feud.

Plus Ricochet is definitely getting a push now. Heard Trips went out of his way back in 2018 to sign him.

To each their own, but I find Scarlett to be very attractive. She can say and do nothing as long as she is showing up on my TV screen.

I thought his Last Man Standing match against Cena at Payback 2014 was pretty excellent. The HIAC match against Roman that you mentioned was pretty good too. His last great match was probably the Strap match against Bryan at the Rumble.

The problem with him was that they essentially backed him into a corner by giving him the gimmick that they did with the no-selling and everything. They wanted to make him into a Undertaker-like character but didn't have the patience or vision to follow through. They could have found a way to make the gimmick work if their booking was at all logical, coherent or consistent. Because it was very cool and had lots of room for reinvention in the future. Instead what they wanted to do was have their cake and eat it too. i.e. book him strongly but no beat Rollins either. It doesn't work that way.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Dave is at that point in his career where his reputation is no more than a dirtsheet reporter rather than a journalist. And he brought it upon himself. Ever since All In, he's become a little fan girl. He admitted to crying after watching Cody vs Dustin.

Lol if he cried after Cody v Dustin: a match he gave 5 stars then what does he do after those Young Bucks matches that he has given 6, 6.5 stars to?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

To each their own, but I find Scarlett to be very attractive. She can say and do nothing as long as she is showing up on my TV screen.

I thought his Last Man Standing match against Cena at Payback 2014 was pretty excellent. The HIAC match against Roman that you mentioned was pretty good too. His last great match was probably the Strap match against Bryan at the Rumble.

The problem with him was that they essentially backed him into a corner by giving him the gimmick that they did with the no-selling and everything. They wanted to make him into a Undertaker-like character but didn't have the patience or vision to follow through. They could have found a way to make the gimmick work if their booking was at all logical, coherent or consistent. Because it was very cool and had lots of room for reinvention in the future. Instead what they wanted to do was have their cake and eat it too. i.e. book him strongly but no beat Rollins either. It doesn't work that way.

I think Scarlett is a very underrated wrestler. I watched a few of her matches in TNA back in 2017 or 2018. It's surprising that she hasn't been given any opportunity to wrestle in WWE.

Regarding that strap match against Bryan, as much as i loved that much, I would give all the credit to Bryan for that match. It was 70-30 in regards to how much Bryan worked in that match.

The thing with Taker is he was an anomaly. No giant could move as quickly as he did. No one understood the wrestling business as good as he did in terms of working a gimmick or adapting his in ring style according to it. In addition, taker was one of the best in ring workers in the world consistently. I'd say he was much better than Sting as well when it comes to being an allround wrestler/entertainer.

I'd like Bray to work a little more on his in ring skills in regards to transitioning from one move to another. He usually does moves in isolation rather than transitions. All other aspects of that guy are flawless. He's one of the most creative minds in wrestling I'd say. His cinematic match against Cena was bizarrely beautiful and perfect.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Lol if he cried after Cody v Dustin: a match he gave 5 stars then what does he do after those Young Bucks matches that he has given 6, 6.5 stars to?

Think he takes wrestling way too seriously. Like I guess he's probably forgotten it's a sport/business for entertainment.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] btw who do you think are the greatest sellers in pro wrestling. It's a weird topic. But I think with the amount of no sells in modern wrestling, it's become a core ingredient for wrestlers to sell their injuries or opponent's offense. Cause a wrestler only looks as good as his opponent lets him be.

For me I'd say in no particular order.

1. Brock Lesnar: Extremely underrated for his perfection in regards to selling. How he sold McIntyre's claymore in Rumble 2020 was just flawless. Cena called it the best in the world. Plus how he sold Bryan's and AJ's offense in SS matches, made Coquina Clutch look like an absolute killer submission.

2. Dwayne: As a kid, that guy literally made the audience feel the highs and lows during his matches.

3. HBK: Although he would oversell at times when he wouldn't like his opponent (Hogan), I think he was one guy who really perfected the art of fighting back. He was a perfect opponent for Bret.

4. AJ: I think you don't need to look further than his feud against Edge when he selling a shoulder injury. Every move of his was perfectly adapted to make it feel legit.

Honorable mention: Roman. I think the way he sold his shoulder injury against his feud against Braun back in 2017 was perfect.

Kyle O Reilly: Extremely underrated. His selling in his feud against Cole was perfection.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] A really funny thing happened in the last few days that you guys may have missed out on.

Our friendly neighborhood AEW shill Dave Meltzer was on Twitter running his mouth about what a joke the idea was that The Young Bucks were actively burying FTR. And how deluded the people who were saying this were. He was essentially quoting a tweet by some girl on Twitter who I guess is a Young Bucks fan. He couldn't even fathom the idea that two guys who have the reputation of being unprofessional, and have had issues with numerous individuals and organizations in the wrestling business, could bury FTR. Our good friend Dave even called such people Alex Jones types.

Well, not long after Dax Harwood replied to Dave on Twitter and told him to f**k off (lmao) and essentially told him to run his mouth when he knew both sides of the story instead of just one. I literally busted out laughing when I saw Dax's tweet. It was so hilarious because it one tweet he not only burned Dave but also launched a violent assault on his credibility as a so-called journalist.

https://wrestletalk.com/news/dax-harwood-tells-dave-meltzer-to-fk-off-on-twitter/

I picked up on this lol it may be my favourite moment of the year, Dax putting that old weasel in his place, even Meltzer must be reeling from that left hook, he normally takes it in his stride, but I think he got busted up pretty bad there lmao

I don’t think there is a tag team more deplorable then the bucks, and Brian Last was bang on predicting their face turn, their ego’s are super huge and Dave keeps feeding them, they simply can’t stand how over FTR are and vastly superior tag team really.

Btw I was thinking about that FTR/Briscoe’s match, I’ve not seen part 1 but the 2 out of 3 falls match, is the best FTR match I’ve ever seen, the only thing missing was an authentic hot crowd. Unfortunately, the die hard ROH fanbase is pretty much dead and those who tuned into this match were smarks who watch a bit of everything and also a big chunk of the audience were watching the Briscoe’s for the first time or were new to their style and character, part of it is due to how protective Briscoe’s have been of their character and their work mostly underground but I also pin some of it on Tony Khan’s decision not to promote the match on national television, which seems pretty insane to me unless the Bucks had something to do with it, then again Tony is an idiot himself

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] btw who do you think are the greatest sellers in pro wrestling. It's a weird topic. But I think with the amount of no sells in modern wrestling, it's become a core ingredient for wrestlers to sell their injuries or opponent's offense. Cause a wrestler only looks as good as his opponent lets him be.

For me I'd say in no particular order.

1. Brock Lesnar: Extremely underrated for his perfection in regards to selling. How he sold McIntyre's claymore in Rumble 2020 was just flawless. Cena called it the best in the world. Plus how he sold Bryan's and AJ's offense in SS matches, made Coquina Clutch look like an absolute killer submission.

2. Dwayne: As a kid, that guy literally made the audience feel the highs and lows during his matches.

3. HBK: Although he would oversell at times when he wouldn't like his opponent (Hogan), I think he was one guy who really perfected the art of fighting back. He was a perfect opponent for Bret.

4. AJ: I think you don't need to look further than his feud against Edge when he selling a shoulder injury. Every move of his was perfectly adapted to make it feel legit.

Honorable mention: Roman. I think the way he sold his shoulder injury against his feud against Braun back in 2017 was perfect.

Kyle O Reilly: Extremely underrated. His selling in his feud against Cole was perfection.

Ah you have such a good list, if I were to add to that I’d say:

Orton due to his simplicity and believability, Bret and Curt Hennig aka Mr.Perfect, Benoit, Angle, Steamboat and Flair may be a controversial one but I think he was incredible outside some of his most outrageous comedic spots he saved mostly for dark matches in his prime.

I feel Brock’s selling was amazing but he took it to another level after his UFC run, he bought elements of the real fight game to the pro-wrestling world having experienced a good hiding or two

Right now I think these guys are pretty good outside the E:

Tanahashi
Punk
Darby Allin

 

[shaz619]

RAW was very good this week.

The Lashley/Ciampa match was outstanding, I enjoyed Rey/Balor to and then them giving AJ Styles the chance to showcase why he is arguably the best in the world and send the crowd home happy in the main event, HHH mentioned he wants wrestling/E to be a fun place to work and I will tell you what, that was a fun episode to watch.

Balor as a heel is 10x more charismatic, his facials were great and that line he used from BB. Priest has widely been regarded as the best big man prospect in a while and he showed some class on the mic, he can work to but I loved that promo, shades of the ministry of darkness Taker, anyone else pick that ?

Lashley is one of the greatest US champions of all time, Ciampa had a good showcase match to display his versatility and while his time will come, it was absolutely the right decision to have him go over, when you look at what a specimen he is, his ring skills, his amateur wrestling pedigree and what a crazy athlete he is you can’t help but feel how underutilised he has been but this is my favourite Lashley run and I think he is in the best form and shape of his career which is outrageous

Glad to see killer KO back to, am sure some of you must have really enjoyed that Ezkiel burial

P.S I would be shocked if Hunter is in his role for more then 18-24 months given his health, I can understand them wanting some order and structure for now though. If he is there much longer, I will have serious questions given the drastic events as of late…….

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Ah you have such a good list, if I were to add to that I’d say:

Orton due to his simplicity and believability, Bret and Curt Hennig aka Mr.Perfect, Benoit, Angle, Steamboat and Flair may be a controversial one but I think he was incredible outside some of his most outrageous comedic spots he saved mostly for dark matches in his prime.

I feel Brock’s selling was amazing but he took it to another level after his UFC run, he bought elements of the real fight game to the pro-wrestling world having experienced a good hiding or two

Right now I think these guys are pretty good outside the E:

Tanahashi
Punk
Darby Allin

Bret and Curt Hennig were amazing and like Orton used simplicity I guess.
I really hated Benoit taking 20 seconds to pin the opponent after hitting a diving headbutt. But in hindsight it definitely hurt, I guess he wasn't selling it at all.
For some reason after watching Angle's farewell painful run, I can't simply get it out of the mind. In his original run, he is a genuine contender for GOAT. The only aspect he lacked was probably drawing power.

I think I need to watch Flair Steamboat matches properly. Have only watched trimmed highlights.
Never liked Flair's comedic selling but I guess he was something else in 80s.

Tanahashi is someone I can never really take seriously. He just seems like a poor man's Eddie Gurrero. He is such a boring wrestler. But to credit, he probably has one of the best look for a wrestler. He is charismatic, has presence and works great as an underdog babyface but I just don't like his work.

It's actually painful watching Darby taking bumps tbh. I fear he may end up causing some big big damage to himself. Considering the punishment he takes, I think he tends to undersell it.

Punk was a great, but I think he's not what he used to be.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

RAW was very good this week.

The Lashley/Ciampa match was outstanding, I enjoyed Rey/Balor to and then them giving AJ Styles the chance to showcase why he is arguably the best in the world and send the crowd home happy in the main event, HHH mentioned he wants wrestling/E to be a fun place to work and I will tell you what, that was a fun episode to watch.

Balor as a heel is 10x more charismatic, his facials were great and that line he used from BB. Priest has widely been regarded as the best big man prospect in a while and he showed some class on the mic, he can work to but I loved that promo, shades of the ministry of darkness Taker, anyone else pick that ?

Lashley is one of the greatest US champions of all time, Ciampa had a good showcase match to display his versatility and while his time will come, it was absolutely the right decision to have him go over, when you look at what a specimen he is, his ring skills, his amateur wrestling pedigree and what a crazy athlete he is you can’t help but feel how underutilised he has been but this is my favourite Lashley run and I think he is in the best form and shape of his career which is outrageous

Glad to see killer KO back to, am sure some of you must have really enjoyed that Ezkiel burial

P.S I would be shocked if Hunter is in his role for more then 18-24 months given his health, I can understand them wanting some order and structure for now though. If he is there much longer, I will have serious questions given the drastic events as of late…….

Ciampa is in my top 5 of last 6-7 years. But I wouldn't have liked him winning the title on Raw this early in his push. That would have been a decision Vince loved to make. I think Trips gonna handle his push preciously. Both looked even better once the match was over and that's how pro wrestling should be. Bobbles looked like a genuine monster and Ciampa got to show his wrestling skills.

I hope Ciampa and Randy are able to bury their hatchet and give us an all time great slow burn feud.

Balor has always been great as a cocky heel like he was in during his Bullet club days. Vince had just pigeon holed him as a good smiley guy who was always happy even after getting beaten.

I found the makeup on Priest's eyes too distracting, but I think there's no doubt how talented he is and if anyone remembers it was his feud with Balor where he really won over the crowd in NXT.

Funnily enough, I was actually enjoying Elias' shtick but it didn't have to come against KO. I feel like KO will be pushed heavily now and deservedly so.

Hearing Sami Zayn is also turning face soon. Him and Roman could actually tell a great story, but there's so many feuds in line for Roman now ie Drew, Kross, Cody. let's see how it goes.

I think Trips would call his kliq buddy HBK for help as a booker and I think he would do just as good job as trips. Can also see Road Dogg making return.

Of all the people, Trips has decided to resign Kross and Lumis. Loved Lumis in NXT though. His gimmick is pretty hard to get rightly and getting it over which Shaw was able to do so. Not sure how his gimmick would work on the main roster.

Also looking forward to the return of LA Knight. The guy is gold on mic.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] In another news Laurinaitis got fired which is such a great news.
I guess there's hope for good guys now.

Another thing, I don't get why people hate Kevin Dunn so much. Regarding his camera angles, I haven't really noticed them until I saw someone bringing it up. Plus if anything, I think camera angles help in hiding botches.

Any other reason why Dunn is so despised?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] In another news Laurinaitis got fired which is such a great news.
I guess there's hope for good guys now.

Another thing, I don't get why people hate Kevin Dunn so much. Regarding his camera angles, I haven't really noticed them until I saw someone bringing it up. Plus if anything, I think camera angles help in hiding botches.

Any other reason why Dunn is so despised?

Because he's a tool who hates the wrestling business and a full-time Vince stooge who seemingly had alot of influence on him. One thing that numerous people have pointed out is that he was notorious for politicking behind-the-scenes and regularly interfered in things that weren't his business, like a wrestler's accent or someone's look and used them to stop their pushes. Mox seemingly confirmed alot of these things in his book. Makes for an entertaining read: https://411mania.com/wrestling/jon-moxley-slams-kevin-dunn-autobiography/

Since he hates wrestling he has always tried his very best to make WWE everything but that. I'm sure he has been successful to some extent in that over the years. He's also the guy you can thank for the 50 camera cuts you often see in a WWE match that goes over 10 minutes since he's their head of production. Now that Vince is gone many suspect that he will be sent packing too because apparently HHH and Stephanie are also part of the vast number of people that hate his guts.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] In another news Laurinaitis got fired which is such a great news.
I guess there's hope for good guys now.

Another thing, I don't get why people hate Kevin Dunn so much. Regarding his camera angles, I haven't really noticed them until I saw someone bringing it up. Plus if anything, I think camera angles help in hiding botches.

Any other reason why Dunn is so despised?

Johnny Ace was a no-brainer. But yeah, I think he's done with the WWE which probably means he is done with wrestling. He's another guy who was widely hated so I'm sure no one is gonna be missing him.

Re: camera cuts, I very rarely see botches in WWE. WWE does not have a roster full of Mexican lucha talent or untrained indie talent like AEW. And look, I can understand the importance of camera cuts in televised wrestling. But there's a fine line between showing a few different angles and just an absolute sensory overload.

The one match where this bothered me so much that I couldn't even focus on the match was McIntyre v Lashley at WrestleMania. And since then I've noticed it numerous times, especially in the longer main-event matches.

At the end of the day though, its just bad direction and fundamentally counter-productive to producing pro-wrestling. The whole point of televised wrestling is to show accurately show the viewer how much this struggle between these competitors is taking out of them. How is the audience supposed to properly react to things if things aren't even given time to settle and breathe?

Think about it, what's the difference between an expertly crafted action film like Mad Max: Fury Road, and a piece of garbage like Transformers? Both are action movies, but in one film every action sequence stands out because its well-shot, coherent and the viewer is allowed to take in the epic size and scope of it. It has a focus and a competent director behind it who understand the value of telling by showing. In the other film you see 60 explosions and 90 camera cuts in the space of 3 minutes. Nothing is allowed to register which is why the stakes mean nothing and you care about nothing.

 

[shaz619]

Bret and Curt Hennig were amazing and like Orton used simplicity I guess.
I really hated Benoit taking 20 seconds to pin the opponent after hitting a diving headbutt. But in hindsight it definitely hurt, I guess he wasn't selling it at all.
For some reason after watching Angle's farewell painful run, I can't simply get it out of the mind. In his original run, he is a genuine contender for GOAT. The only aspect he lacked was probably drawing power.

I think I need to watch Flair Steamboat matches properly. Have only watched trimmed highlights.
Never liked Flair's comedic selling but I guess he was something else in 80s.

Tanahashi is someone I can never really take seriously. He just seems like a poor man's Eddie Gurrero. He is such a boring wrestler. But to credit, he probably has one of the best look for a wrestler. He is charismatic, has presence and works great as an underdog babyface but I just don't like his work.

It's actually painful watching Darby taking bumps tbh. I fear he may end up causing some big big damage to himself. Considering the punishment he takes, I think he tends to undersell it.

Punk was a great, but I think he's not what he used to be.

Angle was extremely over, the top guy when he first showed up was Austin, there are only a handful of guys in history maybe who are worth mentioning if we want to compare them to the drawing power of Austin. He adjusted well and transitioned into the role of a comedic chicken sh!t heel, unless you’re Flair or the son in law or a failed baby face project, very rarely especially in the modern era is the heel going to be tasked to be the guy, it makes Reigns current run all the more special and historic with that in mind. Having said that, it says a lot that Kurt still became champion in a shark tank and was trusted to have feuds with pretty much most of the top 5 main eventers at the height of WWF’s popularity

But, Kurt did break out even further and solidified his main event pedigree during the RA era, unfortunately he wasn’t booked as the top guy and you can thank smark favourite Darth Burius for that. It’s a pity, so many blessed ATG’s and we had to put up with Darth Burius and his reign of terror, it led to high levels of insecurity in the locker room and that’s certainly not ideal for those with drug and alcohol issues. If there was any doubt surrounding Angle’s pedigree as a top guy, I’d like to think those were put to bed when he carried TNA into a new era for them as their star attraction.

Angle’s final run in hindsight wasn’t bad for him on a personal level, they eased him into retirement knowing he pushed himself too hard, on Austin’s podcast Angle kept downplaying reducing his workload and that’s the Olympian’s mindset, they don’t know how to stop. Angle was putting on bangers but when he came back to WWE, the lack of ring activity fast tracked his decline but he still had that great WM tag match with Ronda and I enjoyed his final match live (don’t know how it came across on TV).

 

[shaz619]

Ciampa is in my top 5 of last 6-7 years. But I wouldn't have liked him winning the title on Raw this early in his push. That would have been a decision Vince loved to make. I think Trips gonna handle his push preciously. Both looked even better once the match was over and that's how pro wrestling should be. Bobbles looked like a genuine monster and Ciampa got to show his wrestling skills.

I hope Ciampa and Randy are able to bury their hatchet and give us an all time great slow burn feud.

Balor has always been great as a cocky heel like he was in during his Bullet club days. Vince had just pigeon holed him as a good smiley guy who was always happy even after getting beaten.

I found the makeup on Priest's eyes too distracting, but I think there's no doubt how talented he is and if anyone remembers it was his feud with Balor where he really won over the crowd in NXT.

Funnily enough, I was actually enjoying Elias' shtick but it didn't have to come against KO. I feel like KO will be pushed heavily now and deservedly so.

Hearing Sami Zayn is also turning face soon. Him and Roman could actually tell a great story, but there's so many feuds in line for Roman now ie Drew, Kross, Cody. let's see how it goes.

I think Trips would call his kliq buddy HBK for help as a booker and I think he would do just as good job as trips. Can also see Road Dogg making return.

Of all the people, Trips has decided to resign Kross and Lumis. Loved Lumis in NXT though. His gimmick is pretty hard to get rightly and getting it over which Shaw was able to do so. Not sure how his gimmick would work on the main roster.

Also looking forward to the return of LA Knight. The guy is gold on mic.

Lashley is a beast and even being a fan of Ciampa’s work, it would be hard to justify how a genuine Heavyweight, former MMA guy and NCAA champion could lose to a little guy unless the match was overbooked.

Sami has been hugely successful as a heel but there is a clear chance here for a natural transition to a face role and huge money there if done right.

I liked Styles in the main event, he is special, will be sad to see him retire. He got maybe a year or two left, hopefully with the creative change we will get to see him leave on a high in the ring during this final run

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] btw who do you think are the greatest sellers in pro wrestling. It's a weird topic. But I think with the amount of no sells in modern wrestling, it's become a core ingredient for wrestlers to sell their injuries or opponent's offense. Cause a wrestler only looks as good as his opponent lets him be.

For me I'd say in no particular order.

1. Brock Lesnar: Extremely underrated for his perfection in regards to selling. How he sold McIntyre's claymore in Rumble 2020 was just flawless. Cena called it the best in the world. Plus how he sold Bryan's and AJ's offense in SS matches, made Coquina Clutch look like an absolute killer submission.

2. Dwayne: As a kid, that guy literally made the audience feel the highs and lows during his matches.

3. HBK: Although he would oversell at times when he wouldn't like his opponent (Hogan), I think he was one guy who really perfected the art of fighting back. He was a perfect opponent for Bret.

4. AJ: I think you don't need to look further than his feud against Edge when he selling a shoulder injury. Every move of his was perfectly adapted to make it feel legit.

Honorable mention: Roman. I think the way he sold his shoulder injury against his feud against Braun back in 2017 was perfect.

Kyle O Reilly: Extremely underrated. His selling in his feud against Cole was perfection.

Tough question. Off the top of my head, I will have to concur with some of yours and shaz's picks: Bret, Henning, Shawn, Brock, Punk, The Rock, Benoit.

I would add Bryan Danielson, Mick Foley, Rey and Sami Zayn to the list.

In AEW besides Punk and Bryan, I would say, Darby (top of the list among current guys probably), Eddie Kingston and MJF.

I rate Darby's selling very highly because if it wasn't as believable as it is, his gimmick would be completely dead in the water. Re: Eddie Kingston, I've seen him do things while selling that I just don't see other guys do. For example: oftentimes during his matches when he has just had the snot beaten out of him, you will see him on his knees just throwing haymakers in the air that aren't connecting with anything. That's something I've seen people do in real fights when they are in that kind of a position. And that's just one of the little nuances that I've noticed in his matches. And that's the thing about Eddie, he always tries to inject realism into what he does in the ring, and his selling is no less amazing than his personality or promos.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Because he's a tool who hates the wrestling business and a full-time Vince stooge who seemingly had alot of influence on him. One thing that numerous people have pointed out is that he was notorious for politicking behind-the-scenes and regularly interfered in things that weren't his business, like a wrestler's accent or someone's look and used them to stop their pushes. Mox seemingly confirmed alot of these things in his book. Makes for an entertaining read: https://411mania.com/wrestling/jon-moxley-slams-kevin-dunn-autobiography/

Since he hates wrestling he has always tried his very best to make WWE everything but that. I'm sure he has been successful to some extent in that over the years. He's also the guy you can thank for the 50 camera cuts you often see in a WWE match that goes over 10 minutes since he's their head of production. Now that Vince is gone many suspect that he will be sent packing too because apparently HHH and Stephanie are also part of the vast number of people that hate his guts.

I'd take what Mox says with a pinch of salt. He is not a reliable voice. But yes if a lot of wrestlers have talked about it, then he probably is a ****.
I guess he'll be the next one to go.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Johnny Ace was a no-brainer. But yeah, I think he's done with the WWE which probably means he is done with wrestling. He's another guy who was widely hated so I'm sure no one is gonna be missing him.

Re: camera cuts, I very rarely see botches in WWE. WWE does not have a roster full of Mexican lucha talent or untrained indie talent like AEW. And look, I can understand the importance of camera cuts in televised wrestling. But there's a fine line between showing a few different angles and just an absolute sensory overload.

The one match where this bothered me so much that I couldn't even focus on the match was McIntyre v Lashley at WrestleMania. And since then I've noticed it numerous times, especially in the longer main-event matches.

At the end of the day though, its just bad direction and fundamentally counter-productive to producing pro-wrestling. The whole point of televised wrestling is to show accurately show the viewer how much this struggle between these competitors is taking out of them. How is the audience supposed to properly react to things if things aren't even given time to settle and breathe?

Think about it, what's the difference between an expertly crafted action film like Mad Max: Fury Road, and a piece of garbage like Transformers? Both are action movies, but in one film every action sequence stands out because its well-shot, coherent and the viewer is allowed to take in the epic size and scope of it. It has a focus and a competent director behind it who understand the value of telling by showing. In the other film you see 60 explosions and 90 camera cuts in the space of 3 minutes. Nothing is allowed to register which is why the stakes mean nothing and you care about nothing.

you're probably right.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Angle was extremely over, the top guy when he first showed up was Austin, there are only a handful of guys in history maybe who are worth mentioning if we want to compare them to the drawing power of Austin. He adjusted well and transitioned into the role of a comedic chicken sh!t heel, unless you’re Flair or the son in law or a failed baby face project, very rarely especially in the modern era is the heel going to be tasked to be the guy, it makes Reigns current run all the more special and historic with that in mind. Having said that, it says a lot that Kurt still became champion in a shark tank and was trusted to have feuds with pretty much most of the top 5 main eventers at the height of WWF’s popularity

But, Kurt did break out even further and solidified his main event pedigree during the RA era, unfortunately he wasn’t booked as the top guy and you can thank smark favourite Darth Burius for that. It’s a pity, so many blessed ATG’s and we had to put up with Darth Burius and his reign of terror, it led to high levels of insecurity in the locker room and that’s certainly not ideal for those with drug and alcohol issues. If there was any doubt surrounding Angle’s pedigree as a top guy, I’d like to think those were put to bed when he carried TNA into a new era for them as their star attraction.

Angle’s final run in hindsight wasn’t bad for him on a personal level, they eased him into retirement knowing he pushed himself too hard, on Austin’s podcast Angle kept downplaying reducing his workload and that’s the Olympian’s mindset, they don’t know how to stop. Angle was putting on bangers but when he came back to WWE, the lack of ring activity fast tracked his decline but he still had that great WM tag match with Ronda and I enjoyed his final match live (don’t know how it came across on TV).

Like I said Angle has a genuine case for being one of the GOATs. His ability to adapt to any wrestling style was astonishing whether it was a heavyweight like Brock, a tiny highflyer like Rey, a non wrestler like Shane, a giant brawler like Taker, a technical wizard like Benoit or a show star like HBK. He could effortlessly transition from a goofball into a high intensity threat.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Lashley is a beast and even being a fan of Ciampa’s work, it would be hard to justify how a genuine Heavyweight, former MMA guy and NCAA champion could lose to a little guy unless the match was overbooked.

Sami has been hugely successful as a heel but there is a clear chance here for a natural transition to a face role and huge money there if done right.

I liked Styles in the main event, he is special, will be sad to see him retire. He got maybe a year or two left, hopefully with the creative change we will get to see him leave on a high in the ring during this final run

Think he has more than 2 years left in him. But it comes down to the high level of performance he keeps a benchmark for him.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Tough question. Off the top of my head, I will have to concur with some of yours and shaz's picks: Bret, Henning, Shawn, Brock, Punk, The Rock, Benoit.

I would add Bryan Danielson, Mick Foley, Rey and Sami Zayn to the list.

In AEW besides Punk and Bryan, I would say, Darby (top of the list among current guys probably), Eddie Kingston and MJF.

I rate Darby's selling very highly because if it wasn't as believable as it is, his gimmick would be completely dead in the water. Re: Eddie Kingston, I've seen him do things while selling that I just don't see other guys do. For example: oftentimes during his matches when he has just had the snot beaten out of him, you will see him on his knees just throwing haymakers in the air that aren't connecting with anything. That's something I've seen people do in real fights when they are in that kind of a position. And that's just one of the little nuances that I've noticed in his matches. And that's the thing about Eddie, he always tries to inject realism into what he does in the ring, and his selling is no less amazing than his personality or promos.

Regarding Eddie, I think that's a very real aspect of fights something that feels natural for him.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I'd take what Mox says with a pinch of salt. He is not a reliable voice. But yes if a lot of wrestlers have talked about it, then he probably is a ****.
I guess he'll be the next one to go.

How so? I've always found him to be a straight shooter who doesn't mince words and tells it like it is.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Regarding Eddie, I think that's a very real aspect of fights something that feels natural for him.

Yeah but that's something I don't see enough of in wrestling nowadays. One of the reasons why his match with Punk was so memorable was because it felt like an actual fight. And not a lazy brawl that we see too much of.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I picked up on this lol it may be my favourite moment of the year, Dax putting that old weasel in his place, even Meltzer must be reeling from that left hook, he normally takes it in his stride, but I think he got busted up pretty bad there lmao

I don’t think there is a tag team more deplorable then the bucks, and Brian Last was bang on predicting their face turn, their ego’s are super huge and Dave keeps feeding them, they simply can’t stand how over FTR are and vastly superior tag team really.

Btw I was thinking about that FTR/Briscoe’s match, I’ve not seen part 1 but the 2 out of 3 falls match, is the best FTR match I’ve ever seen, the only thing missing was an authentic hot crowd. Unfortunately, the die hard ROH fanbase is pretty much dead and those who tuned into this match were smarks who watch a bit of everything and also a big chunk of the audience were watching the Briscoe’s for the first time or were new to their style and character, part of it is due to how protective Briscoe’s have been of their character and their work mostly underground but I also pin some of it on Tony Khan’s decision not to promote the match on national television, which seems pretty insane to me unless the Bucks had something to do with it, then again Tony is an idiot himself

Some marks on Reddit actually think this is a work. Just imagine how freakin deluded do you even have to be to think that lol? Now I know why AEW fans are despised this much. I mean the Bucks literally turned face so they wouldn't have to face FTR.

I think you will love the first one even more than this. Just a feeling. I've gone back and forth on this a number of times and after much thought and consideration I would probably put the first match a whisker ahead of the 2/3 falls match. Both are perfect wrestling matches and arguably two of the greatest tag team matches of the modern era. But after revisiting the first one, the crowd reaction is simply too good to be ignored, and the match feels more unpredictable. Even when the two teams were standing face to face before the ringing of the bell, the crowd was going nuts.

Briscoes not being on AEW TV is not Tony's fault. On that, his hands are infact tied. The reason that someone pointed out is that apparently years ago way back in 2013, Jay Briscoe made a homophobic remark on Twitter. Since then, he has not only apologized for that tweet but also donated to a LGBTQ or gay charity. But apparently that wasn't enough for the execs. at TBS who have personally sent down the edict that The Briscoes are not to be featured on TBS/TNT. It utterly ridiculous and beyond stupid. But I guess that's the world we live in now. If you said something offensive on the internet 10 years ago you can be sure that someone will find it and hold it to your head like a gun. Doesn't even matter if you were stupid or immature back then or if you have apologized for making a mistake.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Angle was extremely over, the top guy when he first showed up was Austin, there are only a handful of guys in history maybe who are worth mentioning if we want to compare them to the drawing power of Austin. He adjusted well and transitioned into the role of a comedic chicken sh!t heel, unless you’re Flair or the son in law or a failed baby face project, very rarely especially in the modern era is the heel going to be tasked to be the guy, it makes Reigns current run all the more special and historic with that in mind. Having said that, it says a lot that Kurt still became champion in a shark tank and was trusted to have feuds with pretty much most of the top 5 main eventers at the height of WWF’s popularity

But, Kurt did break out even further and solidified his main event pedigree during the RA era, unfortunately he wasn’t booked as the top guy and you can thank smark favourite Darth Burius for that. It’s a pity, so many blessed ATG’s and we had to put up with Darth Burius and his reign of terror, it led to high levels of insecurity in the locker room and that’s certainly not ideal for those with drug and alcohol issues. If there was any doubt surrounding Angle’s pedigree as a top guy, I’d like to think those were put to bed when he carried TNA into a new era for them as their star attraction.

Angle’s final run in hindsight wasn’t bad for him on a personal level, they eased him into retirement knowing he pushed himself too hard, on Austin’s podcast Angle kept downplaying reducing his workload and that’s the Olympian’s mindset, they don’t know how to stop. Angle was putting on bangers but when he came back to WWE, the lack of ring activity fast tracked his decline but he still had that great WM tag match with Ronda and I enjoyed his final match live (don’t know how it came across on TV).

I'm not fan of Hunter but I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. I thought Angle was a pretty tippy top guy during the RA Era because the brand split ensured that HHH was putting his golden shovel to use against the RAW guys. SD! was Angle's show. Taker, Eddie, Rey, Brock, Cena, Batista and JBL all made the show memorable at different points of time but Angle was the one constant top guy from 2002 to 2006. Who was always featured at the top and almost always having great matches.

During that period he main-evented a WrestleMania, wrestled at two others as World Champion and had that legendary match with HBK at one. Pretty memorable 4 year period if you think about it. Angle did more in 4 years than most wrestlers are able to do in their entire careers.

IMO, Angle's downfall came as a result of his debilitating neck injuries and the painkillers he got addicted to because of them which put him on a downward spiral....something that I'm sure you are very well aware of having seen that Stone Cold podcast.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

RAW was very good this week.

The Lashley/Ciampa match was outstanding, I enjoyed Rey/Balor to and then them giving AJ Styles the chance to showcase why he is arguably the best in the world and send the crowd home happy in the main event, HHH mentioned he wants wrestling/E to be a fun place to work and I will tell you what, that was a fun episode to watch.

Balor as a heel is 10x more charismatic, his facials were great and that line he used from BB. Priest has widely been regarded as the best big man prospect in a while and he showed some class on the mic, he can work to but I loved that promo, shades of the ministry of darkness Taker, anyone else pick that ?

Lashley is one of the greatest US champions of all time, Ciampa had a good showcase match to display his versatility and while his time will come, it was absolutely the right decision to have him go over, when you look at what a specimen he is, his ring skills, his amateur wrestling pedigree and what a crazy athlete he is you can’t help but feel how underutilised he has been but this is my favourite Lashley run and I think he is in the best form and shape of his career which is outrageous

Glad to see killer KO back to, am sure some of you must have really enjoyed that Ezkiel burial

P.S I would be shocked if Hunter is in his role for more then 18-24 months given his health, I can understand them wanting some order and structure for now though. If he is there much longer, I will have serious questions given the drastic events as of late…….

This show was probably the best RAW I have seen in ages. Right off the bat, the thing that I liked most about this show was that it felt less scripted and more unpredictable. Eventhough not much happened and it probably was scripted eavily if not word for word. The minor/arc running throughout the entire episode is something I have not seen on WWE TV in ages. It kept me interested and intrigued eventhough it ended up being something not that significant. But other than that, the quality of wrestling too was top-notch. I was surprised how good Lashley v Tomasso Ciampa was considering the fact that they weren't give that much time. But man oh man, did they have a barn-burner out there. What a great showing for Ciampa. As good as Lashely was here this was Tomasso Ciampa at his very best. When he came out in the Harley Race robe I was almost ready to believe he was winning the belt too lol. Because if anything, that was something with HHH's finger-prints all over it. But besides that Gable and Dolph had a terrific amateur wrestling match that the crowd was sadly dead for. And Balor v Rey was pretty good too.

Besides the matches the booking felt more logical too. Matches weren't just announced between two random guys for no good reason. Even the main-event had a set-up and I'm surprised how much I enjoyed that match too considering The Miz was in it.

LMAO I was howling with laughter when Kevin Owens killed Ezekiel in under a minute. What an epic burial. And as it should be. A guy who just main-evented WrestleMania against the biggest drawing star in the history of the business should not be involved in comedy angles with underneath guys.

 

[shaz619]

I'm not fan of Hunter but I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. I thought Angle was a pretty tippy top guy during the RA Era because the brand split ensured that HHH was putting his golden shovel to use against the RAW guys. SD! was Angle's show. Taker, Eddie, Rey, Brock, Cena, Batista and JBL all made the show memorable at different points of time but Angle was the one constant top guy from 2002 to 2006. Who was always featured at the top and almost always having great matches.

During that period he main-evented a WrestleMania, wrestled at two others as World Champion and had that legendary match with HBK at one. Pretty memorable 4 year period if you think about it. Angle did more in 4 years than most wrestlers are able to do in their entire careers.

IMO, Angle's downfall came as a result of his debilitating neck injuries and the painkillers he got addicted to because of them which put him on a downward spiral....something that I'm sure you are very well aware of having seen that Stone Cold podcast.

The RA era Brand split was designed initially to feed HHH’s massive ego and high levels of insecurity. They had to get rid of the big guns and anyone who made Hunter feel inferior to SD, Angle still thrived as a main eventer without anyone trying to actively sabotage him unlike when he was on RAW. Heyman did a splendid job with him and under his creative, main evented a wrestle mania. There should never be a question on if he was a draw or not, but could he have been bigger then he was? absolutely and TNA are many things, but they REALLY gave Angle the ball in a way he did not receive it in the E, he had issues and they played a part but that was more towards the end of his run really, when you’re injured you go a bit crazy. Angle was no different to Bret in some ways; there was always that big back stabbing vermin in Hogan who tried to bury him constantly, for Angle it was Hunter but in both cases these guys overcame but still felt they didn’t get enough love and the new shiny new comes along and you don’t feel appreciated, ironically both left on unpleasant terms to

 

[shaz619]

This show was probably the best RAW I have seen in ages. Right off the bat, the thing that I liked most about this show was that it felt less scripted and more unpredictable. Eventhough not much happened and it probably was scripted eavily if not word for word. The minor/arc running throughout the entire episode is something I have not seen on WWE TV in ages. It kept me interested and intrigued eventhough it ended up being something not that significant. But other than that, the quality of wrestling too was top-notch. I was surprised how good Lashley v Tomasso Ciampa was considering the fact that they weren't give that much time. But man oh man, did they have a barn-burner out there. What a great showing for Ciampa. As good as Lashely was here this was Tomasso Ciampa at his very best. When he came out in the Harley Race robe I was almost ready to believe he was winning the belt too lol. Because if anything, that was something with HHH's finger-prints all over it. But besides that Gable and Dolph had a terrific amateur wrestling match that the crowd was sadly dead for. And Balor v Rey was pretty good too.

Besides the matches the booking felt more logical too. Matches weren't just announced between two random guys for no good reason. Even the main-event had a set-up and I'm surprised how much I enjoyed that match too considering The Miz was in it.

LMAO I was howling with laughter when Kevin Owens killed Ezekiel in under a minute. What an epic burial. And as it should be. A guy who just main-evented WrestleMania against the biggest drawing star in the history of the business should not be involved in comedy angles with underneath guys.

I was praying Lashley went over, I couldn’t call it. It wouldn’t feel right, a guy that big, skilled and with his credentials, it would have been insulting and too cold, Ciampa’s style complimented Lashley’s nicely, power and technical wrestling don’t always mesh but these two have high ring IQ’s, Lashley typically works in restrained fashion and keeps things simple which add to his legitimacy but he opened up a bit more here and Ciampa’s intensity was brilliant, he can have great matches with pretty much anyone given how sound his fundamentals are.

Lol that KO/Ezkiel angle has been over but I think you hit the nail on the head, you can’t have a guy go into something like that after the biggest match of his career, also most likely when he may have had new eye balls following him closely, you’re working with Austin and then a glorified jobber ***, he should have been in the title picture or something more serious

Styles got to show he can adapt to any situation or opponent and I feel The Mizz is very under appreciated, he’s the guy you don’t go out of your way to watch but he keeps proving you wrong, works extremely hard and has developed excellent ring awareness over the years

 

[BunnyRabbit]

How so? I've always found him to be a straight shooter who doesn't mince words and tells it like it is.

He tells it what it's like from his perspective. That isn't always the case what it actually is as Mox is sorta hot headed.

I think Tyler Breeze is one who always keeps his bias aside and gives his unbiased account. Karrion Kross as well.

Roman is actually so intelligent in this regard that you can't simply make out if he is saying stuff in character or what. Like I think I can now see why Roman's chosen as the franchise player. He handles it very well. Like when he is criticizing someone, you can't totally get if he's in character or not. That's one area where Seth has lagged who chooses to go full on everything when he's speaking of his opinions sometimes they turn out to be quite offensive/ill mannered.

PS I am not a roman mark, just underlying the little things he does right probably because of how he has been molded as all franchise faces do so.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah but that's something I don't see enough of in wrestling nowadays. One of the reasons why his match with Punk was so memorable was because it felt like an actual fight. And not a lazy brawl that we see too much of.

Yes. It's a good thing in his arsenal. But I'd really like him to get in some sort of shape. Like it's only going to reduce the years in his career if he continues like this.

Terry Funk was a master of brawls. He actually served as the main guy to design the final brawl in Rocky 5.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

This show was probably the best RAW I have seen in ages. Right off the bat, the thing that I liked most about this show was that it felt less scripted and more unpredictable. Eventhough not much happened and it probably was scripted eavily if not word for word. The minor/arc running throughout the entire episode is something I have not seen on WWE TV in ages. It kept me interested and intrigued eventhough it ended up being something not that significant. But other than that, the quality of wrestling too was top-notch. I was surprised how good Lashley v Tomasso Ciampa was considering the fact that they weren't give that much time. But man oh man, did they have a barn-burner out there. What a great showing for Ciampa. As good as Lashely was here this was Tomasso Ciampa at his very best. When he came out in the Harley Race robe I was almost ready to believe he was winning the belt too lol. Because if anything, that was something with HHH's finger-prints all over it. But besides that Gable and Dolph had a terrific amateur wrestling match that the crowd was sadly dead for. And Balor v Rey was pretty good too.

Besides the matches the booking felt more logical too. Matches weren't just announced between two random guys for no good reason. Even the main-event had a set-up and I'm surprised how much I enjoyed that match too considering The Miz was in it.

LMAO I was howling with laughter when Kevin Owens killed Ezekiel in under a minute. What an epic burial. And as it should be. A guy who just main-evented WrestleMania against the biggest drawing star in the history of the business should not be involved in comedy angles with underneath guys.

Gable and Ziggler are never allowed to show how good they actually are. Ziggler has actually been diluted so much that he's being perceived as an jobber version of HBK. Ziggler actually has great comedic timing, his mic skills are great (I actually think that "It should have been me" series of promos were top notch but just weren't presented seriously or as a proper storyline). A lot of wrestlers have also talked about how Ziggler is one of the toughest guys you'll find in actual fights.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I was praying Lashley went over, I couldn’t call it. It wouldn’t feel right, a guy that big, skilled and with his credentials, it would have been insulting and too cold, Ciampa’s style complimented Lashley’s nicely, power and technical wrestling don’t always mesh but these two have high ring IQ’s, Lashley typically works in restrained fashion and keeps things simple which add to his legitimacy but he opened up a bit more here and Ciampa’s intensity was brilliant, he can have great matches with pretty much anyone given how sound his fundamentals are.

Lol that KO/Ezkiel angle has been over but I think you hit the nail on the head, you can’t have a guy go into something like that after the biggest match of his career, also most likely when he may have had new eye balls following him closely, you’re working with Austin and then a glorified jobber ***, he should have been in the title picture or something more serious

Styles got to show he can adapt to any situation or opponent and I feel The Mizz is very under appreciated, he’s the guy you don’t go out of your way to watch but he keeps proving you wrong, works extremely hard and has developed excellent ring awareness over the years

I think Ciampa has this rare skill of bringing out the absolute best in his opponent. He literally does magic to make his opponent look a million bucks. It never gets recognized though. The first time I actually appreciated it was during his match with Velveteen. If you look at Lashley's past matches, his entire feud with Drew was a bust where Lashley didn't either look strong enough or the matches weren't good enough. Then that awful feud with Omos and Theory. This was actually what Lashley's looked the best since his feud against Lesnar.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I'm not fan of Hunter but I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. I thought Angle was a pretty tippy top guy during the RA Era because the brand split ensured that HHH was putting his golden shovel to use against the RAW guys. SD! was Angle's show. Taker, Eddie, Rey, Brock, Cena, Batista and JBL all made the show memorable at different points of time but Angle was the one constant top guy from 2002 to 2006. Who was always featured at the top and almost always having great matches.

During that period he main-evented a WrestleMania, wrestled at two others as World Champion and had that legendary match with HBK at one. Pretty memorable 4 year period if you think about it. Angle did more in 4 years than most wrestlers are able to do in their entire careers.

IMO, Angle's downfall came as a result of his debilitating neck injuries and the painkillers he got addicted to because of them which put him on a downward spiral....something that I'm sure you are very well aware of having seen that Stone Cold podcast.

Think Angle's drug addiction to pain killers played a big factor during arguably his best run in WWE.

That match at No Way Out against Taker is one of the most underrated ones in the history.

 

[shaz619]

I think Ciampa has this rare skill of bringing out the absolute best in his opponent. He literally does magic to make his opponent look a million bucks. It never gets recognized though. The first time I actually appreciated it was during his match with Velveteen. If you look at Lashley's past matches, his entire feud with Drew was a bust where Lashley didn't either look strong enough or the matches weren't good enough. Then that awful feud with Omos and Theory. This was actually what Lashley's looked the best since his feud against Lesnar.

Lashley and Drew have never had a bad match together, their chemistry is amazing really that they could work with creative / producers under Vince and still produce the goods, their matches have been very physical and intense, big guys shouldn’t always have to or need to prance around, we all know it’s fake but don’t need to be reminded of that. My favourite match in their encounters was at Slammiversary XIV, this was around the time I believe where they allowed Lashley to wrestle and fight at Bellator, the match with Drew could only end by KO or submission, it was great PPV quality and story telling was great. Lashley has been great despite working under the restraints of the previous regime but I don’t feel people appreciate how versatile he can be in the ring.

Ciampa so far has mostly worker under the supervision of supportive bookers and producers, and mostly talent which I regard as highly skilled or gifted, with this match with Lashley it wasn’t too different in that regard and we can also argue that Lashley bought out Ciampa’s best, a part of that was because of Hunter booking them to go 50/50 which is debatable considering the weight / real life combat experience difference but Lashley agreed to that and the match had a strong finish and allowed Ciampa to showcase his abilities. Am not saying his success will be limited dependent on the worker but I’d give more credit to one guy if the opposition was vastly inferior. There will be tougher tests then this but at least for now Hunter will protect him.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I didn't have an issue with the size difference. But Lashley with the way he has been presented and featured...which has been as a top guy should have won here. That said, this was one of those rare examples of where a guy is elevated even in a loss. Excited to see more of Ciampa on RAW. If he is allowed to be himself like he was on NXT and have great matches, then he will get over big.

I think The Miz always gets exposed after a certain point...even if he is having a great match, because as Cornette once said, he feels like a guy playing wrestler rather than an actual wrestler. I do think he has improved alot in recent times. He is definitely capable of having good matches and I don't think anyone can deny that he is a hardworker. But he's just such a typical PG era heel. There's nothing ever original or interesting about him. The same badly executed moves, the same catchphrases and the same cheap heat promos. I don't hate him or even dislike him that much when I think about it. But he mostly just makes me go blehh.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I was praying Lashley went over, I couldn’t call it. It wouldn’t feel right, a guy that big, skilled and with his credentials, it would have been insulting and too cold, Ciampa’s style complimented Lashley’s nicely, power and technical wrestling don’t always mesh but these two have high ring IQ’s, Lashley typically works in restrained fashion and keeps things simple which add to his legitimacy but he opened up a bit more here and Ciampa’s intensity was brilliant, he can have great matches with pretty much anyone given how sound his fundamentals are.

Lol that KO/Ezkiel angle has been over but I think you hit the nail on the head, you can’t have a guy go into something like that after the biggest match of his career, also most likely when he may have had new eye balls following him closely, you’re working with Austin and then a glorified jobber ***, he should have been in the title picture or something more serious

Styles got to show he can adapt to any situation or opponent and I feel The Mizz is very under appreciated, he’s the guy you don’t go out of your way to watch but he keeps proving you wrong, works extremely hard and has developed excellent ring awareness over the years

I didn't have an issue with the size difference. But Lashley with the way he has been presented and featured...which has been as a top guy should have won here. That said, this was one of those rare examples of where a guy is elevated even in a loss. Excited to see more of Ciampa on RAW. If he is allowed to be himself like he was on NXT and have great matches, then he will get over big.

I think The Miz always gets exposed after a certain point...even if he is having a great match, because as Cornette once said, he feels like a guy playing wrestler rather than an actual wrestler. I do think he has improved alot in recent times. He is definitely capable of having good matches and I don't think anyone can deny that he is a hardworker. But he's just such a typical PG era heel. There's nothing ever original or interesting about him. The same badly executed moves, the same catchphrases and the same cheap heat promos. I don't hate him or even dislike him that much when I think about it. But he mostly just makes me go blehh.

 

[shaz619]

I didn't have an issue with the size difference. But Lashley with the way he has been presented and featured...which has been as a top guy should have won here. That said, this was one of those rare examples of where a guy is elevated even in a loss. Excited to see more of Ciampa on RAW. If he is allowed to be himself like he was on NXT and have great matches, then he will get over big.

I think The Miz always gets exposed after a certain point...even if he is having a great match, because as Cornette once said, he feels like a guy playing wrestler rather than an actual wrestler. I do think he has improved alot in recent times. He is definitely capable of having good matches and I don't think anyone can deny that he is a hardworker. But he's just such a typical PG era heel. There's nothing ever original or interesting about him. The same badly executed moves, the same catchphrases and the same cheap heat promos. I don't hate him or even dislike him that much when I think about it. But he mostly just makes me go blehh.

What other PG era heel’s compare to The Mizz? there are plenty of great workers but very few will have the same success as The Mizz who maximises his strengths and is always 100% committed to his character work. He has thrived under Vince because he can take chicken sh!t and turn it into chicken salad, his innate heel promo skills are excellent and he finds a way to constantly get heat and is great at playing off the audience, he makes for a great adversary for anyone, he has helped numerous talent over the years get over especially when they first came in and has an understanding for the end game. A more stripped back persona would obviously be more preferred if am looking at a gimmick change, we saw glimpses of his versatility when unrestricted on Talking Smack. The ring work is solid if not spectacular and he has shown he can be tough in the ring to, I think he should get more appreciation in the ring now when he had forced people to believe Logan Paul’s introduction to the pro wrestling world is Kurt Angle level. His style though for the national audience perfectly compliments those who are superior in the ring, it is good to have a styles clash and allow the likes of AJ to bring out their very best form.

On to the size difference, it would have been the equivalent of say Floyd Mayweather beating up Anthony Joshua not saying it should never happen but in that sort of scenario if the smaller guy is going over, the big guy will be protected, but in this case we have literally a human lethal weapon who could literally end someone in a jiffy

 

[Markhor]

The KC Vault on YouTube continues to release some excellent content. Guest Booker in particular is a good series.

I was pleasantly surprised by Vince Russo's rebooking of The Invasion. It was miles better than Jim Cornette who booked Terry Funk to beat Undertaker at Wrestlemania.

His angle was logical and made better sense than the mess we actually saw.

Not so good - Roddy Piper's (in)famous Timeline of 1984 shoot. It's the interview where Piper seemingly infers Pat Patterson made a pass at him, although he walked those claims back later.

Piper was frail, incoherent, and struggled to remember the questions the host asked him. Unfortunately the health warning signs were there.

Like many of the 80s talent - he partied hard, dabbled in drugs and booze, and probably suffered CTE. He also had a traumatic childhood and may have even been abused as a child which perhaps explains the substance issues.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The KC Vault on YouTube continues to release some excellent content. Guest Booker in particular is a good series.

I was pleasantly surprised by Vince Russo's rebooking of The Invasion. It was miles better than Jim Cornette who booked Terry Funk to beat Undertaker at Wrestlemania.

His angle was logical and made better sense than the mess we actually saw.

Not so good - Roddy Piper's (in)famous Timeline of 1984 shoot. It's the interview where Piper seemingly infers Pat Patterson made a pass at him, although he walked those claims back later.

Piper was frail, incoherent, and struggled to remember the questions the host asked him. Unfortunately the health warning signs were there.

Like many of the 80s talent - he partied hard, dabbled in drugs and booze, and probably suffered CTE. He also had a traumatic childhood and may have even been abused as a child which perhaps explains the substance issues.

Don't know much about Piper's personal life but that guy had a personality that was better than everyone of that era. John Carpenter the legendary director said after casting Piper in his cult film They Live something along those lines as well.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

What other PG era heel’s compare to The Mizz? there are plenty of great workers but very few will have the same success as The Mizz who maximises his strengths and is always 100% committed to his character work. He has thrived under Vince because he can take chicken sh!t and turn it into chicken salad, his innate heel promo skills are excellent and he finds a way to constantly get heat and is great at playing off the audience, he makes for a great adversary for anyone, he has helped numerous talent over the years get over especially when they first came in and has an understanding for the end game. A more stripped back persona would obviously be more preferred if am looking at a gimmick change, we saw glimpses of his versatility when unrestricted on Talking Smack. The ring work is solid if not spectacular and he has shown he can be tough in the ring to, I think he should get more appreciation in the ring now when he had forced people to believe Logan Paul’s introduction to the pro wrestling world is Kurt Angle level. His style though for the national audience perfectly compliments those who are superior in the ring, it is good to have a styles clash and allow the likes of AJ to bring out their very best form.

On to the size difference, it would have been the equivalent of say Floyd Mayweather beating up Anthony Joshua not saying it should never happen but in that sort of scenario if the smaller guy is going over, the big guy will be protected, but in this case we have literally a human lethal weapon who could literally end someone in a jiffy

I have rarely ever heard someone talk bad about Miz (apart from Punk offcourse). Everyone says how selfless he is in pushing other guys. The funny thing is Miz came from some reality tv show and was kicked out from the dressing room by Benoit for not being a real wrestler or something. Yet he proved everyone wrong by forging a respectable career.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Lashley and Drew have never had a bad match together, their chemistry is amazing really that they could work with creative / producers under Vince and still produce the goods, their matches have been very physical and intense, big guys shouldn’t always have to or need to prance around, we all know it’s fake but don’t need to be reminded of that. My favourite match in their encounters was at Slammiversary XIV, this was around the time I believe where they allowed Lashley to wrestle and fight at Bellator, the match with Drew could only end by KO or submission, it was great PPV quality and story telling was great. Lashley has been great despite working under the restraints of the previous regime but I don’t feel people appreciate how versatile he can be in the ring.

Ciampa so far has mostly worker under the supervision of supportive bookers and producers, and mostly talent which I regard as highly skilled or gifted, with this match with Lashley it wasn’t too different in that regard and we can also argue that Lashley bought out Ciampa’s best, a part of that was because of Hunter booking them to go 50/50 which is debatable considering the weight / real life combat experience difference but Lashley agreed to that and the match had a strong finish and allowed Ciampa to showcase his abilities. Am not saying his success will be limited dependent on the worker but I’d give more credit to one guy if the opposition was vastly inferior. There will be tougher tests then this but at least for now Hunter will protect him.

TNA feud was different between Drew and Lashley but the WWE feud last year was book awfully tbh. Lashley was consistently made to look like an inferior guy than Drew.

 

[Markhor]

Don't know much about Piper's personal life but that guy had a personality that was better than everyone of that era. John Carpenter the legendary director said after casting Piper in his cult film They Live something along those lines as well.

That film's on my playlist to watch.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

That film's on my playlist to watch.

Do watch it. It's a signature Carpenter film with it's surreal atmosphere.