The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[RedwoodOriginal]

Things I have really liked on WWE TV in the HHH era:

- Rehabilitation of the midcard belts.
- Compelling matches with actual finishes on RAW.
- Ciampa's push.
- Ezekial's burial.
- Karrion Kross's return.
- McIntyre not coming out in a quilt or with a sword in hand anymore.
- KO v McIntyre...eventhough it ended in a DQ.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

If Reigns is going over in the Castle, Gunther v Sheamus has to be the main event perhaps and they could send the crowd home happy by giving him his moment. But what a match up, the dream encounter we never knew we wanted

It's so funny. Watching this match I was sure, Sami was winning. I figured okay, they are turning Sami back babyface. And besides, WALTER is one of the few guys who can have absolutely great and believable matches with smaller guys too. And then when Sheamus, out of nowhere, just won, I thought wait a minute...that could actually be a great match.

I'm sure a babyface turn for Sami is coming too though.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It's so funny. Watching this match I was sure, Sami was winning. I figured okay, they are turning Sami back babyface. And besides, WALTER is one of the few guys who can have absolutely great and believable matches with smaller guys too. And then when Sheamus, out of nowhere, just won, I thought wait a minute...that could actually be a great match.

I'm sure a babyface turn for Sami is coming too though.

Sami might get one of the biggest pops if he intentionally costs Roman the title.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] With Trips bringing back a new wrestler almost every week now majority of them being his NXT recruits, I was really disappointed by Hit Row. Like they have such an awful gimmick of being rappers (who can't even rap) plus their gangsta act is so phony. Swerve was the best wrestler among them and now he isn't there.

It was nice to see Gargano back. Was actually surprised by the crowd reaction he got. The promo he cut was actually perfect. He introduced himself brilliantly to the casual fans unaware of him. Wasn't fazed at all by the crowd something a lot of NXT call ups has had a problem with during their promos.

I think he'll be able to win the crowd by the match quality he puts on. The guy is a natural.

What guys do you want to see being signed up by WWE now? Bray's impending return is generating the most hype.

One person I really don't want to see back is the overrated Keith Lee. His stupid smug literally destroys every segment or match he is in. A serious promo or match would be going on and Lee would be smiling stupidly all the time. Takes away all the tension or the storytelling. Plus he has just one intensity of working a match. He can't slow down or amp up the momentum.

Think one guy Trips would want to sign is Will Ospreay. He has tried multiple times to sign him but Ospreay has turned down the deal every time. With more budget and creative at his helm, I think Trips might be able to convince him. Plus Ospreay has developed well enough in NJPW to rise to the very top now and be considered a main eventer. And he has almost achieved everything there is in NJPW. Probably only misses winning the G1 climax.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] With Trips bringing back a new wrestler almost every week now majority of them being his NXT recruits, I was really disappointed by Hit Row. Like they have such an awful gimmick of being rappers (who can't even rap) plus their gangsta act is so phony. Swerve was the best wrestler among them and now he isn't there.

It was nice to see Gargano back. Was actually surprised by the crowd reaction he got. The promo he cut was actually perfect. He introduced himself brilliantly to the casual fans unaware of him. Wasn't fazed at all by the crowd something a lot of NXT call ups has had a problem with during their promos.

I think he'll be able to win the crowd by the match quality he puts on. The guy is a natural.

What guys do you want to see being signed up by WWE now? Bray's impending return is generating the most hype.

One person I really don't want to see back is the overrated Keith Lee. His stupid smug literally destroys every segment or match he is in. A serious promo or match would be going on and Lee would be smiling stupidly all the time. Takes away all the tension or the storytelling. Plus he has just one intensity of working a match. He can't slow down or amp up the momentum.

Think one guy Trips would want to sign is Will Ospreay. He has tried multiple times to sign him but Ospreay has turned down the deal every time. With more budget and creative at his helm, I think Trips might be able to convince him. Plus Ospreay has developed well enough in NJPW to rise to the very top now and be considered a main eventer. And he has almost achieved everything there is in NJPW. Probably only misses winning the G1 climax.

I told you that HHH was going to try his best to bring his NXT booking to the main-roster. And ofcourse a big part of that is bringing back his NXT boys. I'm not at all a fan of Johnny Gargano. No doubt he can have great matches, but the guy comes off as a charisma vacuum to me. He does not have much personality. Still, I'm interested to see what Hunter does with him on the main-roster. I would guess he will be well-protected.

Keith Lee and Swerve have added nothing to AEW in my opinion. Infact they are taking away TV time from far more deserving guys who struggle to get on Dynamite because of how packed that show and roster is. More than anything, I think everyone is just surprised how these two guys are tag team champions and FTR is not. Even when FTR is a gazillion times more over than these two. Swerve is at best, an NXT midcarder and WWE US Champion. Keith Lee is someone who could have found short-term success in WWE (had they not fired him). But ultimately he is someone who likely would have gotten the 2010s Big Show booking.

He was heavily protected in NXT which is why he got over. Here he is just another guy on a show with guys who have star power in spades. He does not stand-out in any way.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] With Trips bringing back a new wrestler almost every week now majority of them being his NXT recruits, I was really disappointed by Hit Row. Like they have such an awful gimmick of being rappers (who can't even rap) plus their gangsta act is so phony. Swerve was the best wrestler among them and now he isn't there.

It was nice to see Gargano back. Was actually surprised by the crowd reaction he got. The promo he cut was actually perfect. He introduced himself brilliantly to the casual fans unaware of him. Wasn't fazed at all by the crowd something a lot of NXT call ups has had a problem with during their promos.

I think he'll be able to win the crowd by the match quality he puts on. The guy is a natural.

What guys do you want to see being signed up by WWE now? Bray's impending return is generating the most hype.

One person I really don't want to see back is the overrated Keith Lee. His stupid smug literally destroys every segment or match he is in. A serious promo or match would be going on and Lee would be smiling stupidly all the time. Takes away all the tension or the storytelling. Plus he has just one intensity of working a match. He can't slow down or amp up the momentum.

Think one guy Trips would want to sign is Will Ospreay. He has tried multiple times to sign him but Ospreay has turned down the deal every time. With more budget and creative at his helm, I think Trips might be able to convince him. Plus Ospreay has developed well enough in NJPW to rise to the very top now and be considered a main eventer. And he has almost achieved everything there is in NJPW. Probably only misses winning the G1 climax.

Don't know where Ospreay's mind is at, but based on what I've been able to deduce, he just likes wrestling for New Japan and likes the freedom that comes with working for them too i.e. the independent bookings that he picks whenever he wants to. Ofcourse he would have that freedom with AEW too but maybe he just likes the organization that he works for me.

Btw, Ospreay and Okada had an absolute barn-burner in the final of the G1 Climax. Don't know if you say, but this might have been one of the best matches of the year.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Ngl Tony booking Mox to beat Punk in 2:59 was a ballsy move. Pro-wrestling needs these UFC-style titles matches from time to time just to inject some realism into the product and ensure that fans don't get conditioned to expect a certain type of match when two main-eventers are going head-to-head.

Now, Mox's title run actually means something. And now you have set the stage for Punk: the babyface to battle adversity in the form of an injury and a guy on a monster run, as he looks to reclaim his World title in his hometown...in what I am guessing will be a match with some sort of stip.

Pumped for All Out. I know there is some debate regarding what is AEW's premier PPV. Nobody seems to be sure if its Double Or Nothing or All Out. But for me, it has to be All Out. Last year's PPV was one of the greatest wrestling PPVs I have ever seen. While it will be hard to live up to that, I'm still expecting great things from this PPV.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Speaking of setting the stage, it seems All Friends Wrestling is back in business as The Elite v Dark Order seems like the most likely match-up in the final of AEW's Trios Championships at All Out. What's more, people are speculating that Adam Page will replace one of the Dark Order members in the match.

I can only imagine what Meltzer is going to give this. 9 stars? 10 stars? I'm fairly certain he has already put 5 stars next to this match in his yet to be written All Out review.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] With Trips bringing back a new wrestler almost every week now majority of them being his NXT recruits, I was really disappointed by Hit Row. Like they have such an awful gimmick of being rappers (who can't even rap) plus their gangsta act is so phony. Swerve was the best wrestler among them and now he isn't there.

It was nice to see Gargano back. Was actually surprised by the crowd reaction he got. The promo he cut was actually perfect. He introduced himself brilliantly to the casual fans unaware of him. Wasn't fazed at all by the crowd something a lot of NXT call ups has had a problem with during their promos.

I think he'll be able to win the crowd by the match quality he puts on. The guy is a natural.

What guys do you want to see being signed up by WWE now? Bray's impending return is generating the most hype.

One person I really don't want to see back is the overrated Keith Lee. His stupid smug literally destroys every segment or match he is in. A serious promo or match would be going on and Lee would be smiling stupidly all the time. Takes away all the tension or the storytelling. Plus he has just one intensity of working a match. He can't slow down or amp up the momentum.

Think one guy Trips would want to sign is Will Ospreay. He has tried multiple times to sign him but Ospreay has turned down the deal every time. With more budget and creative at his helm, I think Trips might be able to convince him. Plus Ospreay has developed well enough in NJPW to rise to the very top now and be considered a main eventer. And he has almost achieved everything there is in NJPW. Probably only misses winning the G1 climax.

I haven’t watched much since Hunter took over, I here SD is dog sh!t and RAW is just a bunch of NXT guys coming back every week like Gargano who cut a pretty good promo but still, it sounds more like a I got you Vince behaviour look at the motorway lines in my forehead now. These Hunter eulogies are going to be unbearable from the naive hipster smark crowd, but he could be the greatest booker in the world, he is still like those convicted rapists who are still rapists to me even after doing time. I also believe Huntdeep and Steph outed Vince, his heart issue is all fake as well, I don’t trust these snakes one bit.

Have been enjoying AEW though, absolutely loved Punk losing in minutes, I’ve wanting this for a while and proposed it. This loss will provide Punk more heat when he wins the belt again or he could go full bad guy as well if he wants

 

[shaz619]

Ngl Tony booking Mox to beat Punk in 2:59 was a ballsy move. Pro-wrestling needs these UFC-style titles matches from time to time just to inject some realism into the product and ensure that fans don't get conditioned to expect a certain type of match when two main-eventers are going head-to-head.

Now, Mox's title run actually means something. And now you have set the stage for Punk: the babyface to battle adversity in the form of an injury and a guy on a monster run, as he looks to reclaim his World title in his hometown...in what I am guessing will be a match with some sort of stip.

Pumped for All Out. I know there is some debate regarding what is AEW's premier PPV. Nobody seems to be sure if its Double Or Nothing or All Out. But for me, it has to be All Out. Last year's PPV was one of the greatest wrestling PPVs I have ever seen. While it will be hard to live up to that, I'm still expecting great things from this PPV.

Gargano is 10x better all round then Garcia though who legit is a Charisma vaccum, the follow up to his match with Bryan has been horrible, he lacks presence and cut the most awful promo I’ve heard in a while. Jim made a video about him which I agree with but he can work I give him that but am back to my old opinion of him, apparently during that match 100k people tuned out. A joke to invest in a guy who isn’t where he needs to be at this stage by giving him a monumental rub, even a Wardlow 5 min squash off Bryan would have served it's purpose or giving this chance to Ricky or MJF, guys who have dollar signs written on them as it is

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Gargano is 10x better all round then Garcia though who legit is a Charisma vaccum, the follow up to his match with Bryan has been horrible, he lacks presence and cut the most awful promo I’ve heard in a while. Jim made a video about him which I agree with but he can work I give him that but am back to my old opinion of him, apparently during that match 100k people tuned out. A joke to invest in a guy who isn’t where he needs to be at this stage by giving him a monumental rub, even a Wardlow 5 min squash off Bryan would have served it's purpose or giving this chance to Ricky or MJF, guys who have dollar signs written on them as it is

Yeah but Gargano is also 35 years old...Garcia is 23. I think its much more concerning for someone of Gargano's age...who has been in the business for ages, and still has nothing going in the way of personality than it is for someone like Garcia, who has quite some time on his hands to learn.

People put way too much stock into ratings imo. I think people need to accept the fact that wrestling is going to be a niche thing going forward. We live in a day and age where people have very short attention-spans and are spoilt for choices. It's futile to expect anything more than a captive audience that is really enamored by pro-wrestling, AEW or WWE to sit down and watch a two hour show on TV every week. Especially in that 18-35 demo and especially in this day and age where everything is streamed and 30 second videos have views than a show like Dynamite gets in a freakin' month. People keep talking about how AEW should grab the 'casual viewer'....just an opinion but I don't think the casual wrestling viewer exists anymore. It's not the 90s anymore when there was only so much you could watch on a Monday Night.

And as far as ratings are concerned, they matter to a certain extent. Ultimately you need an audience...even if its a small one to watch your show if you want to stay on air. But let's not forget that ratings were hot even when WWE was putting on juvenile hot garbage on TV week after week. That 'This is Your Life' segment on RAW between Rock and Mick Foley, which was beyond awful and went on for seemingly forever was one of the highest rated segments in the history of Monday Night RAW.

All I know is that I saw an incredible match on Dynamite. And if a 100K people tuned out during that then I feel bad for them. Because they missed out on a really awesome pro-wrestling match.

 

[shaz619]

Yeah but Gargano is also 35 years old...Garcia is 23. I think its much more concerning for someone of Gargano's age...who has been in the business for ages, and still has nothing going in the way of personality than it is for someone like Garcia, who has quite some time on his hands to learn.

People put way too much stock into ratings imo. I think people need to accept the fact that wrestling is going to be a niche thing going forward. We live in a day and age where people have very short attention-spans and are spoilt for choices. It's futile to expect anything more than a captive audience that is really enamored by pro-wrestling, AEW or WWE to sit down and watch a two hour show on TV every week. Especially in that 18-35 demo and especially in this day and age where everything is streamed and 30 second videos have views than a show like Dynamite gets in a freakin' month. People keep talking about how AEW should grab the 'casual viewer'....just an opinion but I don't think the casual wrestling viewer exists anymore. It's not the 90s anymore when there was only so much you could watch on a Monday Night.

And as far as ratings are concerned, they matter to a certain extent. Ultimately you need an audience...even if its a small one to watch your show if you want to stay on air. But let's not forget that ratings were hot even when WWE was putting on juvenile hot garbage on TV week after week. That 'This is Your Life' segment on RAW between Rock and Mick Foley, which was beyond awful and went on for seemingly forever was one of the highest rated segments in the history of Monday Night RAW.

All I know is that I saw an incredible match on Dynamite. And if a 100K people tuned out during that then I feel bad for them. Because they missed out on a really awesome pro-wrestling match.

Gragano is fantastic nothing for him to be concerned about, he is a seasoned vet and it shows in his work more evidenced recently. Garcia wont improve if he gives into all the people who are worshiping him right now as though he is the second coming of Chris Jericho.

Garcia can have multiple matches like that and he may well pander to the hipster crowd who already think he is god’s gift to wrestling, but it doesn’t change what a horrible character he is with no charisma and no presence, he looks like a guy who gets bullied everyday and may wet himself from a door knock, he has an awful look about him as well. If 100k people tune out of you, your promoter should be concerned when you are getting the rub from one of the biggest baby faces of the modern era, Garcia shouldn’t be concerned though if he wants to stay where he is, he was on way too long and there is nothing out of him that can be monetised, being a good worker is not good enough, to get all this praise and hype now is naive on the part of those who praise him and those who are pushing him to the moon, given the backstage politics it may well be that the guy is well liked by someone high up or someone who’s behind be must be kissing

The relationship between quality and ratings is debatable, but whether something is horrible or whether something is really good, you feel something enough to say that. I feel numb during a Garcia segment though it’s like there is not much of an effort made for me to even call it a garbage attempt, it’s like watching something without much of a pulse at all.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I haven’t watched much since Hunter took over, I here SD is dog sh!t and RAW is just a bunch of NXT guys coming back every week like Gargano who cut a pretty good promo but still, it sounds more like a I got you Vince behaviour look at the motorway lines in my forehead now. These Hunter eulogies are going to be unbearable from the naive hipster smark crowd, but he could be the greatest booker in the world, he is still like those convicted rapists who are still rapists to me even after doing time. I also believe Huntdeep and Steph outed Vince, his heart issue is all fake as well, I don’t trust these snakes one bit.

Have been enjoying AEW though, absolutely loved Punk losing in minutes, I’ve wanting this for a while and proposed it. This loss will provide Punk more heat when he wins the belt again or he could go full bad guy as well if he wants

Come on man. That's a bit harsh. That's way harsher than anything I have said about Jericho here. I find it very hard to believe that HHH faked a heart attack. There were doctors with him, it was widely reported.

As far as the show is concerned, the difference between RAW under Vince and RAW under HHH is literally night and day. I'm not saying RAW is the greatest show ever or anything like that. But the booking is far more logical now...we get fresh match-ups every week. Guys are allowed to go out there and express themselves, and have good matches. We tend to get multiple 10-15 minute+ matches on RAW nearly every week. Not to mention, the secondary belts actually mean something and aren't an afterthought because they are defended nearly every other week. Wrestlers or announcers don't get their tongues cut off either if they acknowledge the fact that a world outside WWE exists. It's actually shocking how good Michael Cole has started sounding.

 

[shaz619]

Come on man. That's a bit harsh. That's way harsher than anything I have said about Jericho here. I find it very hard to believe that HHH faked a heart attack. There were doctors with him, it was widely reported.

As far as the show is concerned, the difference between RAW under Vince and RAW under HHH is literally night and day. I'm not saying RAW is the greatest show ever or anything like that. But the booking is far more logical now...we get fresh match-ups every week. Guys are allowed to go out there and express themselves, and have good matches. We tend to get multiple 10-15 minute+ matches on RAW nearly every week. Not to mention, the secondary belts actually mean something and aren't an afterthought because they are defended nearly every other week. Wrestlers or announcers don't get their tongues cut off either if they acknowledge the fact that a world outside WWE exists. It's actually shocking how good Michael Cole has started sounding.

Didn’t Dave mentioned something about it a while back as well the heart stuff? there was an interesting theory proposed by Brian Last where he didn’t say this is how it is for sure but what has happened recently, how can we be certain this is all just one big coincidence, the sequence of events are pretty staggering the way he put it, at the very least there is more to it then what the eyes see

 

[shaz619]

On a more positive note, while the gameplay does look a bit clunky, from the recent AEW fight forever gamescon event, there is a lot to be excited about! I wonder if you guys checked that out

 

[shaz619]

Come on man. That's a bit harsh. That's way harsher than anything I have said about Jericho here. I find it very hard to believe that HHH faked a heart attack. There were doctors with him, it was widely reported.

As far as the show is concerned, the difference between RAW under Vince and RAW under HHH is literally night and day. I'm not saying RAW is the greatest show ever or anything like that. But the booking is far more logical now...we get fresh match-ups every week. Guys are allowed to go out there and express themselves, and have good matches. We tend to get multiple 10-15 minute+ matches on RAW nearly every week. Not to mention, the secondary belts actually mean something and aren't an afterthought because they are defended nearly every other week. Wrestlers or announcers don't get their tongues cut off either if they acknowledge the fact that a world outside WWE exists. It's actually shocking how good Michael Cole has started sounding.

It’s pretty shocking how a group of people can go from strongly disliking something to liking it massively, I am not seeing an AE era level change but that’s how some of the Hunter cult are making it out to be when that’s not the case. It’s more like people searching for positives opposed to negatives like before, it’s the change in leadership itself which has made people behave that way, I personally never had an issue with Cole before always felt he was terribly under rated

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Gragano is fantastic nothing for him to be concerned about, he is a seasoned vet and it shows in his work more evidenced recently. Garcia wont improve if he gives into all the people who are worshiping him right now as though he is the second coming of Chris Jericho.

Garcia can have multiple matches like that and he may well pander to the hipster crowd who already think he is god’s gift to wrestling, but it doesn’t change what a horrible character he is with no charisma and no presence, he looks like a guy who gets bullied everyday and may wet himself from a door knock, he has an awful look about him as well. If 100k people tune out of you, your promoter should be concerned when you are getting the rub from one of the biggest baby faces of the modern era, Garcia shouldn’t be concerned though if he wants to stay where he is, he was on way too long and there is nothing out of him that can be monetised, being a good worker is not good enough, to get all this praise and hype now is naive on the part of those who praise him and those who are pushing him to the moon, given the backstage politics it may well be that the guy is well liked by someone high up or someone who’s behind be must be kissing

The relationship between quality and ratings is debatable, but whether something is horrible or whether something is really good, you feel something enough to say that. I feel numb during a Garcia segment though it’s like there is not much of an effort made for me to even call it a garbage attempt, it’s like watching something without much of a pulse at all.

If we are talking about being over with a hipster crowd than Gargano has practically wrote the book on it. Like I said, he is a good wrestler who can have great matches. But I don't see anything there that even puts him in the same league as someone like Adam Cole, who is similarly small and renowned for his wrestling ability but has 50 times the charisma or personality that Gargano has.

As far as Garcia is concerned, I don't disagree with you. He is a horrible promo and urgently needs to get better if he is being featured on national TV. But he has more of an upside now than someone like Gargano will ever have. I also think we shouldn't discount Jericho's role in executing this awful piece of television. Because this segment had Jericho's fingerprints all over it. If anything, I would argue, that Jericho exposed Garcia's shortcomings on national TV when that is the last thing he should have been doing being a experienced vet that he is.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It’s pretty shocking how a group of people can go from strongly disliking something to liking it massively, I am not seeing an AE era level change but that’s how some of the Hunter cult are making it out to be when that’s not the case. It’s more like people searching for positives opposed to negatives like before, it’s the change in leadership itself which has made people behave that way, I personally never had an issue with Cole before always felt he was terribly under rated

I know what you're saying. I've seen some people talk about WWE under HHH as if its the greatest thing since sliced bread. But as someone who is just wants to see good pro-wrestling, I do feel the show is infinitely better than it was under Vince. Which again, isn't saying much considering RAW under Vince was mostly unwatchable. But now I do look forward to RAW. And two reasons why that has been the case is because for the last few weeks they have been nailing imo has been surprises and giving us some good wrestling.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It’s pretty shocking how a group of people can go from strongly disliking something to liking it massively, I am not seeing an AE era level change but that’s how some of the Hunter cult are making it out to be when that’s not the case. It’s more like people searching for positives opposed to negatives like before, it’s the change in leadership itself which has made people behave that way, I personally never had an issue with Cole before always felt he was terribly under rated

I disagree bro. Cole was awful to listen to before. He had this annoying tendency of blurting out WWE-mandated buzzwords and phrases. Now he sounds like a normal veteran babyface commentator. And I noticed the difference in his commentary at SummerSlam, when he was actually reacting like how a friend would react to his friend getting cheated during the Corbin/MacAfee match. I think Graves even had a line during the Brock match when he said that [to Cole] "I liked you better when you didn't have a voice."

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Didn’t Dave mentioned something about it a while back as well the heart stuff? there was an interesting theory proposed by Brian Last where he didn’t say this is how it is for sure but what has happened recently, how can we be certain this is all just one big coincidence, the sequence of events are pretty staggering the way he put it, at the very least there is more to it then what the eyes see

I dunno man. That doesn't feel like something he would just concoct. It's a pretty serious thing. I know HHH can act but even Daniel Day-Lewis can't act his way to the kind of reaction Hunter had during an interview following his heart operation.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Don't know where Ospreay's mind is at, but based on what I've been able to deduce, he just likes wrestling for New Japan and likes the freedom that comes with working for them too i.e. the independent bookings that he picks whenever he wants to. Ofcourse he would have that freedom with AEW too but maybe he just likes the organization that he works for me.

Btw, Ospreay and Okada had an absolute barn-burner in the final of the G1 Climax. Don't know if you say, but this might have been one of the best matches of the year.

Ospreay is an unreal talent to be honest. Any wrestling promotion that is able to sign him would know his value. But the thing is the guy is not well mentally. He has battled depression and almost took his life back in 2019. He needs to be taken care of mentally. Plus him using social media is not a good idea imo. The wrestling fans (the online warriors) are such stupid breed that would try to fight with anyone and everyone without any logic and diss everyone they don't like. He likes to make claims on twitter and gets a lot of flak. I am not going to any way endorse what these fans "criticize" wrestlers and other fans because they are vile people that any sane person needs to stay away from.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I told you that HHH was going to try his best to bring his NXT booking to the main-roster. And ofcourse a big part of that is bringing back his NXT boys. I'm not at all a fan of Johnny Gargano. No doubt he can have great matches, but the guy comes off as a charisma vacuum to me. He does not have much personality. Still, I'm interested to see what Hunter does with him on the main-roster. I would guess he will be well-protected.

Keith Lee and Swerve have added nothing to AEW in my opinion. Infact they are taking away TV time from far more deserving guys who struggle to get on Dynamite because of how packed that show and roster is. More than anything, I think everyone is just surprised how these two guys are tag team champions and FTR is not. Even when FTR is a gazillion times more over than these two. Swerve is at best, an NXT midcarder and WWE US Champion. Keith Lee is someone who could have found short-term success in WWE (had they not fired him). But ultimately he is someone who likely would have gotten the 2010s Big Show booking.

He was heavily protected in NXT which is why he got over. Here he is just another guy on a show with guys who have star power in spades. He does not stand-out in any way.

I don't know man I just love Gargano. That guy has unreal connection with a lot of fans. Whatever he says, he is extremely articulate. He seems like a regular guy who is talking to people. Is able to tell a story that is very easy to understand. It's his simplicity in these sort of things that makes him stand out from others. It's possible he may not get over with the worldwide fanbase that WWE has.
One of my favorite promos from Gargano was his promo on a phone after turning heel by revealing to be the attacker of Aliester Black. It was more of a Ledger's Joker impression. But it was a simple promo with him telling why he attacked him and why he still sees himself as the protagonist. He didn't do any overacting or anything, just simply delivered the promo. It's that unbridled simplicity in my opinion that works so well for him, that he doesn't do verbal gymnastics or makes shouts etc. If you haven't watched it, do give it a try.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbWf_8rJZhk

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I haven’t watched much since Hunter took over, I here SD is dog sh!t and RAW is just a bunch of NXT guys coming back every week like Gargano who cut a pretty good promo but still, it sounds more like a I got you Vince behaviour look at the motorway lines in my forehead now. These Hunter eulogies are going to be unbearable from the naive hipster smark crowd, but he could be the greatest booker in the world, he is still like those convicted rapists who are still rapists to me even after doing time. I also believe Huntdeep and Steph outed Vince, his heart issue is all fake as well, I don’t trust these snakes one bit.

Have been enjoying AEW though, absolutely loved Punk losing in minutes, I’ve wanting this for a while and proposed it. This loss will provide Punk more heat when he wins the belt again or he could go full bad guy as well if he wants

I understand why you despite Hunter.

But for last few months I have been trying to just see wrestling without any insider info or reading any dirtsheets. That sort of ruins everything for a fan overtime. Takes away all the excitement and stuff that made us love pro wrestling as kids. I assure you if you only pay attention to the stories and matches and watch it as a relaxing thing, it becomes a lot more enjoying. Like the whole Lesnar feud was ruined for me as I knew already Lesnar was contracted till Mania.

Regarding Punk, I think the stage is set for his heel turn now. And if told well, this could be a really good story.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I dunno man. That doesn't feel like something he would just concoct. It's a pretty serious thing. I know HHH can act but even Daniel Day-Lewis can't act his way to the kind of reaction Hunter had during an interview following his heart operation.

I am pretty sure his heart failure was real. It is a well known condition Hunter explained on his interview with that guy (i've forgotten his name). He does have a defibrillator placed in his chest. Myocarditis is extremely common with COVID and that just accentuated the silent condition that he had genetically.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I disagree bro. Cole was awful to listen to before. He had this annoying tendency of blurting out WWE-mandated buzzwords and phrases. Now he sounds like a normal veteran babyface commentator. And I noticed the difference in his commentary at SummerSlam, when he was actually reacting like how a friend would react to his friend getting cheated during the Corbin/MacAfee match. I think Graves even had a line during the Brock match when he said that [to Cole] "I liked you better when you didn't have a voice."

Agreed. Cole actually has a very different voice that what he uses on commentary.
His commentary used to be the same Oh My. He is like a man possessed. He is here. Unreal. blah blah.

Now he is much more relaxed and all the commentators are talking like they are reacting to a match rather than being force fed the lines. Previously, I think only McAfee was given that freedom and he was the best one.

Even with Graves, I think he doesn't get the credit he deserves. He is a really good heel commentator. Always defending the heel and stuff. I love the hollywood type references he uses so often. Something wicked this way comes. Enter the Demon. Cometh the hour cometh the man. etcetc

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah but Gargano is also 35 years old...Garcia is 23. I think its much more concerning for someone of Gargano's age...who has been in the business for ages, and still has nothing going in the way of personality than it is for someone like Garcia, who has quite some time on his hands to learn.

People put way too much stock into ratings imo. I think people need to accept the fact that wrestling is going to be a niche thing going forward. We live in a day and age where people have very short attention-spans and are spoilt for choices. It's futile to expect anything more than a captive audience that is really enamored by pro-wrestling, AEW or WWE to sit down and watch a two hour show on TV every week. Especially in that 18-35 demo and especially in this day and age where everything is streamed and 30 second videos have views than a show like Dynamite gets in a freakin' month. People keep talking about how AEW should grab the 'casual viewer'....just an opinion but I don't think the casual wrestling viewer exists anymore. It's not the 90s anymore when there was only so much you could watch on a Monday Night.

And as far as ratings are concerned, they matter to a certain extent. Ultimately you need an audience...even if its a small one to watch your show if you want to stay on air. But let's not forget that ratings were hot even when WWE was putting on juvenile hot garbage on TV week after week. That 'This is Your Life' segment on RAW between Rock and Mick Foley, which was beyond awful and went on for seemingly forever was one of the highest rated segments in the history of Monday Night RAW.

All I know is that I saw an incredible match on Dynamite. And if a 100K people tuned out during that then I feel bad for them. Because they missed out on a really awesome pro-wrestling match.

The difference is Gargano perfected his art in indies where he wrestled in front of a few hundred people and more often than not got no hype. That probably pushed him to work hard while keeping him grounded where he matured as a wrestler. Same thing with Ciampa. After over a decade of experience, they got exposure to wider fanbase where they got treated like stars and arguably the faces of NXT. It was only then that fans started hyping him.

With Garcia and every upcoming wrestler, the hype these guys get is massive. The fans are awful. Both the die hard WWE and AEW fans. They hype every young talented guy to unreal hype and more often than not it has resulted in the wrestler actually buying into that hype and considering them to be better than they actually are at a current point.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Gragano is fantastic nothing for him to be concerned about, he is a seasoned vet and it shows in his work more evidenced recently. Garcia wont improve if he gives into all the people who are worshiping him right now as though he is the second coming of Chris Jericho.

Garcia can have multiple matches like that and he may well pander to the hipster crowd who already think he is god’s gift to wrestling, but it doesn’t change what a horrible character he is with no charisma and no presence, he looks like a guy who gets bullied everyday and may wet himself from a door knock, he has an awful look about him as well. If 100k people tune out of you, your promoter should be concerned when you are getting the rub from one of the biggest baby faces of the modern era, Garcia shouldn’t be concerned though if he wants to stay where he is, he was on way too long and there is nothing out of him that can be monetised, being a good worker is not good enough, to get all this praise and hype now is naive on the part of those who praise him and those who are pushing him to the moon, given the backstage politics it may well be that the guy is well liked by someone high up or someone who’s behind be must be kissing

The relationship between quality and ratings is debatable, but whether something is horrible or whether something is really good, you feel something enough to say that. I feel numb during a Garcia segment though it’s like there is not much of an effort made for me to even call it a garbage attempt, it’s like watching something without much of a pulse at all.

I don't really care about ratings or the war or the WON stars.

I think we have all watched pro wrestling for decades and we know what is a good feud or good match for us without having to resort to ratings or stars for that.

I will say this Dirtsheets and so called wrestling journalism (even though it's not a sport cause its staged) have only destroyed the fun for fans.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Ngl Tony booking Mox to beat Punk in 2:59 was a ballsy move. Pro-wrestling needs these UFC-style titles matches from time to time just to inject some realism into the product and ensure that fans don't get conditioned to expect a certain type of match when two main-eventers are going head-to-head.

Now, Mox's title run actually means something. And now you have set the stage for Punk: the babyface to battle adversity in the form of an injury and a guy on a monster run, as he looks to reclaim his World title in his hometown...in what I am guessing will be a match with some sort of stip.

Pumped for All Out. I know there is some debate regarding what is AEW's premier PPV. Nobody seems to be sure if its Double Or Nothing or All Out. But for me, it has to be All Out. Last year's PPV was one of the greatest wrestling PPVs I have ever seen. While it will be hard to live up to that, I'm still expecting great things from this PPV.

It will be a great move depending on what comes afterwards. If they do something incredible, it will prove to be great. But if they do something like kicking Edge out of Judgement day without any future plans, it will turn out to be redundant

 

[shaz619]

If we are talking about being over with a hipster crowd than Gargano has practically wrote the book on it. Like I said, he is a good wrestler who can have great matches. But I don't see anything there that even puts him in the same league as someone like Adam Cole, who is similarly small and renowned for his wrestling ability but has 50 times the charisma or personality that Gargano has.

As far as Garcia is concerned, I don't disagree with you. He is a horrible promo and urgently needs to get better if he is being featured on national TV. But he has more of an upside now than someone like Gargano will ever have. I also think we shouldn't discount Jericho's role in executing this awful piece of television. Because this segment had Jericho's fingerprints all over it. If anything, I would argue, that Jericho exposed Garcia's shortcomings on national TV when that is the last thing he should have been doing being a experienced vet that he is.

Bunny Rabbit has articulated why Gargano is so good, the NXT style itself pandered to the hipster crowd but it was executed professionally, in his tag stint I don’t think he got the chance to showcase much personality but as a singles guy heel or baby he did pretty well and to have headlined what is widely regarded as the best Takeover in history, is some feat, the angle was built around him beating Ciampa and getting his moment / that feud was pretty incredible really and it takes two to tango, he has an organic connection with his audience and as Jericho once said, if you can get over in x you can defo get over in y. I am not a big mark for him but I think he is good at what he does and has developed well through the performance centre, Cole I never really got the hype at first and I guess after his run in AEW I kinda get why, Cole has good all round pedigree but he needs shrewd booking and lets be honest, his shape doesn’t help him

Jericho is the guy everyone loves to hate right now but I would advise people to direct it at Hunter, if you are getting TV time with a legend and working with modern great and still somehow manage to mess it up you need to be accountable, was Jericho at fault for his ring gear for example? the guy looked like a fan LOL heck Okada *** did as well, what’s it with the jeans and T-Shirt lmao these guys are meant to be wrestling fans once upon a time, Bryan was Garcia’s hero and Bryan even in the indies made a bit of an effort with his presentation and personality. Tony is writing the show any way he thinks he is Verne Gagne

 

[shaz619]

I don't really care about ratings or the war or the WON stars.

I think we have all watched pro wrestling for decades and we know what is a good feud or good match for us without having to resort to ratings or stars for that.

I will say this Dirtsheets and so called wrestling journalism (even though it's not a sport cause its staged) have only destroyed the fun for fans.

Yep that is for sure I try to avoid them before a big event, some surprises at least they manage to hide, for the most part what is leaked tends to be intended

 

[shaz619]

Ospreay is an unreal talent to be honest. Any wrestling promotion that is able to sign him would know his value. But the thing is the guy is not well mentally. He has battled depression and almost took his life back in 2019. He needs to be taken care of mentally. Plus him using social media is not a good idea imo. The wrestling fans (the online warriors) are such stupid breed that would try to fight with anyone and everyone without any logic and diss everyone they don't like. He likes to make claims on twitter and gets a lot of flak. I am not going to any way endorse what these fans "criticize" wrestlers and other fans because they are vile people that any sane person needs to stay away from.

Ospreay is a weird guy, but not getting into that. He is the most overhyped wrestler after Kenny Omega. There is already a better version of him in the WWE but I feel he needs to go there to save his career. Otherwise he can’t work for more then a few months a year. It’s funny but remember when he called out Punk who then said let me know if you still have the title in 6 months, what happened? Ospreay is that CAW in a video game with every high flying move in the book and absolutely nothing else

 

[shaz619]

I disagree bro. Cole was awful to listen to before. He had this annoying tendency of blurting out WWE-mandated buzzwords and phrases. Now he sounds like a normal veteran babyface commentator. And I noticed the difference in his commentary at SummerSlam, when he was actually reacting like how a friend would react to his friend getting cheated during the Corbin/MacAfee match. I think Graves even had a line during the Brock match when he said that [to Cole] "I liked you better when you didn't have a voice."

The hate for Cole was mostly promoted heavily on social media oh he said this word or that word but over the years he has made some amazing calls with my favourite being when Eddie won the title, in between who was shouting to him on the mic, Cole was pretty good and vastly superior to his colleagues, whether people liked him or not there was structure and flow, plus he has long been that familiar voice for the product. You don’t just simply become competent because you don’t have x or y involved, Cole had to be good to succeed despite that, otherwise anyone could do his job

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Ospreay is a weird guy, but not getting into that. He is the most overhyped wrestler after Kenny Omega. There is already a better version of him in the WWE but I feel he needs to go there to save his career. Otherwise he can’t work for more then a few months a year. It’s funny but remember when he called out Punk who then said let me know if you still have the title in 6 months, what happened? Ospreay is that CAW in a video game with every high flying move in the book and absolutely nothing else

Ospreay isn't mentally healthy which is well documented, might have narcissistic personality as well. Which is why I think his antics on social media and out of the wrestling ring shouldn't be taken seriously. He regularly makes a joke out of himself and sneaks in to act like a hero. His die hard followers worship him for that and the star ratings uncle dave gives him.

But like I said, if you only look at the guy in the ring and the matches he puts on (esp in NJPW, in AEW, his match with OC was good but the tag matches have lacked storytelling), he has improved a lot. I see very good singles matches from him very consistently.

Ricochet is a better athlete (one of my top 3 guys of modern era) and less injury prone and safer to work with. Ospreay has been telling good stories for last 3 years IMO.

Not to mention how Rico has been booked since Crown Jewel 2020 like a jobber.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The hate for Cole was mostly promoted heavily on social media oh he said this word or that word but over the years he has made some amazing calls with my favourite being when Eddie won the title, in between who was shouting to him on the mic, Cole was pretty good and vastly superior to his colleagues, whether people liked him or not there was structure and flow, plus he has long been that familiar voice for the product. You don’t just simply become competent because you don’t have x or y involved, Cole had to be good to succeed despite that, otherwise anyone could do his job

Not to mention the guy has total hearing loss in one ear.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The hate for Cole was mostly promoted heavily on social media oh he said this word or that word but over the years he has made some amazing calls with my favourite being when Eddie won the title, in between who was shouting to him on the mic, Cole was pretty good and vastly superior to his colleagues, whether people liked him or not there was structure and flow, plus he has long been that familiar voice for the product. You don’t just simply become competent because you don’t have x or y involved, Cole had to be good to succeed despite that, otherwise anyone could do his job

Cole was really good until 2008 or 09' I think. 2010 is when he started getting really unbearable for me. I actually used to think he was excellent as a play by play when it was him and Taz and later him and JBL on SD! But then they made him a heel announcer where he had to be a cartoonish heel who sat in a glass chamber and always had to support the heel wrestler, that's when he fell of a cliff for me. There was that atrocious feud as well that he had with Lawler leading to a match at freakin' WrestleMania, of all places and a IIRC 'Kiss My Foot match'. He eventually got his dignity back when he became the longest tenured member of the commentary team but at that point his commentary became so dull and one-dimensional that you could almost predict what he would say during certain moments of a match. And taht was teh case until very recently. I don't blame him for it ofcourse, because as plenty of people have said, he had Vince in his ear asking him to be his mouth-piece. Now, it doesn't seem like that is the case and his commentary has started sounding less robotic and more natural.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The difference is Gargano perfected his art in indies where he wrestled in front of a few hundred people and more often than not got no hype. That probably pushed him to work hard while keeping him grounded where he matured as a wrestler. Same thing with Ciampa. After over a decade of experience, they got exposure to wider fanbase where they got treated like stars and arguably the faces of NXT. It was only then that fans started hyping him.

With Garcia and every upcoming wrestler, the hype these guys get is massive. The fans are awful. Both the die hard WWE and AEW fans. They hype every young talented guy to unreal hype and more often than not it has resulted in the wrestler actually buying into that hype and considering them to be better than they actually are at a current point.

Gargano is good but I wouldn't say he has perfected anything. Again, he doesn't hold a candle to some of his peers and that includes Ciampa. I dunno I just have never gotten the hype around Gargano. He is nothing more than an Intercontinental Champion (at best) because no amount of wrestling ability can make up for the utter lack of personality. Cornette actually summed it best when he called him "Johnny Sameface". He literally has the same pokerace at every point of a match. That's why he can never be a truly great underdog either. Because selling means nothing without the right facials.

I agree Garcia is massively overhyped. The same applies to Yuta. Alot of that is because of the hipster PWG crowd that is a massive part of AEW's fanbase now. But that's not his fault. Yes, he has alot to learn but no one can deny that he has talent in spades and years left to perfect his craft. Garcia also wrestles heavily on the indies so its not like he isn't getting his reps in. The difference is that the pressure on him to get better is far higher than it would have been on some of these guys when they were his age. Because he is on national television regularly.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Agreed. Cole actually has a very different voice that what he uses on commentary.
His commentary used to be the same Oh My. He is like a man possessed. He is here. Unreal. blah blah.

Now he is much more relaxed and all the commentators are talking like they are reacting to a match rather than being force fed the lines. Previously, I think only McAfee was given that freedom and he was the best one.

Even with Graves, I think he doesn't get the credit he deserves. He is a really good heel commentator. Always defending the heel and stuff. I love the hollywood type references he uses so often. Something wicked this way comes. Enter the Demon. Cometh the hour cometh the man. etcetc

Graves is kinda divisive and I would say that he gets more hate than love. I don't know why. He's pretty good. I think he was much better at getting a degree of his own voice through eventhough Vince used to be in his ear too. But the difference in the Cole before HHH and the Cole now is very telling.

The only commentator in WWE I have always hated is Byron. I would give him a legit zero as a commentator because he has zero redeeming qualities. Even Tony 'I'm happy to be here' Schiavone and the Mark in the Mask are a million times better than him.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I am pretty sure his heart failure was real. It is a well known condition Hunter explained on his interview with that guy (i've forgotten his name). He does have a defibrillator placed in his chest. Myocarditis is extremely common with COVID and that just accentuated the silent condition that he had genetically.

Yeah I mean having a pacemaker is pretty serious. If it wasn't anything serious he would be winding up his in-ring career. But the fact that he retired no questions asked is very telling of how serious his heart condition is.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don't know man I just love Gargano. That guy has unreal connection with a lot of fans. Whatever he says, he is extremely articulate. He seems like a regular guy who is talking to people. Is able to tell a story that is very easy to understand. It's his simplicity in these sort of things that makes him stand out from others. It's possible he may not get over with the worldwide fanbase that WWE has.
One of my favorite promos from Gargano was his promo on a phone after turning heel by revealing to be the attacker of Aliester Black. It was more of a Ledger's Joker impression. But it was a simple promo with him telling why he attacked him and why he still sees himself as the protagonist. He didn't do any overacting or anything, just simply delivered the promo. It's that unbridled simplicity in my opinion that works so well for him, that he doesn't do verbal gymnastics or makes shouts etc. If you haven't watched it, do give it a try.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbWf_8rJZhk

I've caught up with Black and Gold NXT over the years, I'm familiar with his exploits on NXT. And like I said, I always thought he was good. But for me, guys like Cole, Ciampa, O'Reilly, Strong, Black were always a notch above him. As wrestlers and as personalities.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Graves is kinda divisive and I would say that he gets more hate than love. I don't know why. He's pretty good. I think he was much better at getting a degree of his own voice through eventhough Vince used to be in his ear too. But the difference in the Cole before HHH and the Cole now is very telling.

The only commentator in WWE I have always hated is Byron. I would give him a legit zero as a commentator because he has zero redeeming qualities. Even Tony 'I'm happy to be here' Schiavone and the Mark in the Mask are a million times better than him.

Mauro Ranallo was one of the best commentators post JL and JR combo in their peaks. Even though he used to overdo the mama mias.

Think Vince was very underrated as a commentator.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I've caught up with Black and Gold NXT over the years, I'm familiar with his exploits on NXT. And like I said, I always thought he was good. But for me, guys like Cole, Ciampa, O'Reilly, Strong, Black were always a notch above him. As wrestlers and as personalities.

I don't feel the same about Reilly or Strong. IMO they don't have any superior personalities than Gargano.

Guess it's a subjective thing. He was one of my favorites in NXT.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Mauro Ranallo was one of the best commentators post JL and JR combo in their peaks. Even though he used to overdo the mama mias.

Think Vince was very underrated as a commentator.

Agreed. Mauro was the heart and soul of NXT. Some of the best moments and matches in NXT wouldn't be the same without him calling them. Sadly, it seems he suffers from bipolar disorder which has made him less interested in being in the wrestling business anymore.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Agreed. Mauro was the heart and soul of NXT. Some of the best moments and matches in NXT wouldn't be the same without him calling them. Sadly, it seems he suffers from bipolar disorder which has made him less interested in being in the wrestling business anymore.

He was good in the main roster as well but he said the bullying culture up top was too much for him to handle. He was particularly targeted by JBL.

He has bipolar type 2 which is less severe than the one portrayed in the movies. Type 2 has depressive episodes which probably got worse with the bullying.

JBL has been known to be a bully throughout his career. I remember a few years back fans were regularly putting up sign boards in attendance saying JBL bullied me. lol

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don't feel the same about Reilly or Strong. IMO they don't have any superior personalities than Gargano.

Guess it's a subjective thing. He was one of my favorites in NXT.

I think one reason you might feel that way is that neither Strong nor O'Reilly have been pushed at the top like Gargano was in NXT. Strong was pushed at the top in ROH and his mic work was strong (no pun intended) even if it wasn't quite as impeccable as his in-ring work. But he did have personality. O'Reilly was finally getting that big push when he was having that feud with Cole and to his credit, showed a lot of personality and natural babyface fire in that feud...ofcourse he was unlucky enough to have gotten that push right before NXT became Cartoon Network 2.0, so his chance went away before it even came.

I know Gargano has his fans. But for me (as MJF would say), he's just mid. So yeah, I guess it may be a subjective thing.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He was good in the main roster as well but he said the bullying culture up top was too much for him to handle. He was particularly targeted by JBL.

He has bipolar type 2 which is less severe than the one portrayed in the movies. Type 2 has depressive episodes which probably got worse with the bullying.

JBL has been known to be a bully throughout his career. I remember a few years back fans were regularly putting up sign boards in attendance saying JBL bullied me. lol

Tbh, JBL gets way too much of a bad rep for "bullying". As far as I know, Mauro has never said anything negative about JBL or said that he was bullied by him. His reason for walking out of the wrestling busines was the schedule and as far as I know, we have no reason to doubt him.

JBL is an old school guy who came into the business when guys weren't as sensitive as they are now. He probably had to pay his dues as a young wrestler and thought the young guys coming in when he became a veteran had to do the same. I'm sure there were instances where he went too far but I highly doubt that this kind of behavior was unique only to him.

If you wanna talk about bullying then you should read up on some of the stories people have told about The Steiners. Now those guys were legit bullies in every sense of the word.

 

[shaz619]

I think one reason you might feel that way is that neither Strong nor O'Reilly have been pushed at the top like Gargano was in NXT. Strong was pushed at the top in ROH and his mic work was strong (no pun intended) even if it wasn't quite as impeccable as his in-ring work. But he did have personality. O'Reilly was finally getting that big push when he was having that feud with Cole and to his credit, showed a lot of personality and natural babyface fire in that feud...ofcourse he was unlucky enough to have gotten that push right before NXT became Cartoon Network 2.0, so his chance went away before it even came.

I know Gargano has his fans. But for me (as MJF would say), he's just mid. So yeah, I guess it may be a subjective thing.

There’s a reason why Strong in his entire career has won only 1 notable singles title, his best exploits have been in tag teams and being the third wheel, the guy is bang average in every department and has nothing on his resume to suggest he’d ever be a top singles star, I actually think Eugene was a bigger star then him in his prime. The less said about Kyle O Reily the better, another indy darling who people think is the second coming of Brock Lesnar when he is more like a Chinese version of Tajiri, who in their right mind would have him as a top singles star in TNA, let alone anywhere else, the dude looks like someones behind, seriously not even a mother could love that face. These guys are good workers who were protected well in tag teams, Gargano is like Shawn and Hogan combined compared to those bums, they could get the same push and wont ever get remotely over in the same way and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. They are not in the NXT umbrella either anymore are they, what is there to show?

 

[shaz619]

He was good in the main roster as well but he said the bullying culture up top was too much for him to handle. He was particularly targeted by JBL.

He has bipolar type 2 which is less severe than the one portrayed in the movies. Type 2 has depressive episodes which probably got worse with the bullying.

JBL has been known to be a bully throughout his career. I remember a few years back fans were regularly putting up sign boards in attendance saying JBL bullied me. lol

JBL is a prat but more old school traits then anything else, if he is a bully so was Owen Hart. The mexicans hiding on the border segment is GOAT level

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I think one reason you might feel that way is that neither Strong nor O'Reilly have been pushed at the top like Gargano was in NXT. Strong was pushed at the top in ROH and his mic work was strong (no pun intended) even if it wasn't quite as impeccable as his in-ring work. But he did have personality. O'Reilly was finally getting that big push when he was having that feud with Cole and to his credit, showed a lot of personality and natural babyface fire in that feud...ofcourse he was unlucky enough to have gotten that push right before NXT became Cartoon Network 2.0, so his chance went away before it even came.

I know Gargano has his fans. But for me (as MJF would say), he's just mid. So yeah, I guess it may be a subjective thing.

I've seen Strong's work but even through his face work, he (to me) always gives heelish vibes. I actually bought into Gargano before his push started, what actually made me his fan was his match vs Pete Dunne for NXT UK title. Roddy's in ring work as good as it is, never really clicked with me as top tier.

Regarding Kyle, I have said multiple times how big of a fan I am of his selling. He could really work as a face and does have that babyface fire. But as a heel, he just doesn't seem believable enough to me. He's always seemed like a guy who's best friends with the bad guy rather than him being bad.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Tbh, JBL gets way too much of a bad rep for "bullying". As far as I know, Mauro has never said anything negative about JBL or said that he was bullied by him. His reason for walking out of the wrestling busines was the schedule and as far as I know, we have no reason to doubt him.

JBL is an old school guy who came into the business when guys weren't as sensitive as they are now. He probably had to pay his dues as a young wrestler and thought the young guys coming in when he became a veteran had to do the same. I'm sure there were instances where he went too far but I highly doubt that this kind of behavior was unique only to him.

If you wanna talk about bullying then you should read up on some of the stories people have told about The Steiners. Now those guys were legit bullies in every sense of the word.

The whole generation till the recent one had been rife with bullying. It is a good thing that it has been minimized and wrestlers actually act like humans should.

The likes of Bradshaw, Benoit, Bob Holly, Steiner bros, etc etc are only a few.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

JBL is a prat but more old school traits then anything else, if he is a bully so was Owen Hart. The mexicans hiding on the border segment is GOAT level

I guess Owen was as well. It was a great segment but damn that whole reign was terrible. Made the top card of SD a borefest that year. Even Taker and Gurrero couldn't put him over. I was vying for Big Show of all people to beat JBL in that ridiculous barbed wire cage match I remember.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] two things i just remembered to discuss with you guys.

what are your predictions for clash at the castle?

Nxt world's collide is going to happen the day after the clash. They've announced Ricochet vs Hayes and Breakker vs Tyler Bate. There are some other matches that involve wrestlers I don't really know about as I haven't watched NXT since that new year ppv. Have only caught a few glimpses plus 1 or 2 matches since as i was finding the burial of all the old guys quite annoying especially to the raw new guys who are extremely green. The only two guys that look legit from 2.0 are Nathan Frazer and Breakker. The show has literally had Cameron Grimes as the most experienced wrestler lol. I like Grimes, Hayes and Escobar though. Plus Vince and Prichard butchered the women's wrestling in NXT by going back to Divas era with hiring new model type women with 10 times more focus on looks and stuff than wrestling part.

Secondly, I feel like Sami is going to get beaten by the bloodline on this SD which might lead to Sami costing Roman the title at the Clash. Or maybe Sami costs Roman the title at the Clash and gets beaten on the next Raw cementing his face turn. For once I am really looking forward to a WWE title match where Roman actually has a chance to lose.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] two things i just remembered to discuss with you guys.

what are your predictions for clash at the castle?

Nxt world's collide is going to happen the day after the clash. They've announced Ricochet vs Hayes and Breakker vs Tyler Bate. There are some other matches that involve wrestlers I don't really know about as I haven't watched NXT since that new year ppv. Have only caught a few glimpses plus 1 or 2 matches since as i was finding the burial of all the old guys quite annoying especially to the raw new guys who are extremely green. The only two guys that look legit from 2.0 are Nathan Frazer and Breakker. The show has literally had Cameron Grimes as the most experienced wrestler lol. I like Grimes, Hayes and Escobar though. Plus Vince and Prichard butchered the women's wrestling in NXT by going back to Divas era with hiring new model type women with 10 times more focus on looks and stuff than wrestling part.

Secondly, I feel like Sami is going to get beaten by the bloodline on this SD which might lead to Sami costing Roman the title at the Clash. Or maybe Sami costs Roman the title at the Clash and gets beaten on the next Raw cementing his face turn. For once I am really looking forward to a WWE title match where Roman actually has a chance to lose.

I think it’s an abomination that AJ Styles is not booked, Huntdeep is this GOAT level booker right, how does he not have arguably the best wrestler on the planet on the card who btw is almost as popular as the Hitman was in the UK, it’s pretty staggering. If AJ was booked in a high profile singles bout, I may have gone.

NXT 2.0 has been hipster smarks favourite whipping boy of recent months when they don’t even watch it, sure it doesn’t scribe to the indy fanbase but while many thought it was vindictive, I actually think Vince was doing 10x better job trying to groom the next big main eventer’s for the main roster while Huntdeep was trying to get his ego massaged by smarks and playing Heyman when he will never be fit to tie his shoe laces. I never heard of Bron Breaker during the Black and Gold era, if Huntdeep was booking him he’d have used the vanilla midgets to destroy him, Huntdeep never had an issue with the smaller guys because in his mind he was superior to them physically, but if someone could surpass him hmmm then things get interesting. Oh and who can overlook Mandy Rose, what a star, I’ve followed her since tough enough and she is our era’s Trish but more athletic imo she is incredible man and that Divas era made me fall in love in wrestling these guys know those women have $$ written all over them and they can work to during that time gals like Molly Holly, Victoria, Lita, Trish etc are very under rated even Trish could hang with this era’s best in Charlotte, I think at World’s Collide the NXT 2.0 will show how easy it is to wrestle, the harder part is to develop your character and have some presence in the ring.

Yeah it books itself doesn’t, you do a stadium show in the UK and you just think, hmm maybe the home favourite will go over? I don’t give credit to the hipster favourite for this one. The go home show for RAW was horrible. And that could happen with Sami but I was thinking along the lines of the bloodline butchering him which sets up Sami’s face turn and subsequently Roman’s next program, but you are right Sami could still cost him the title or perhaps Tyson Fury will be involved in the main event to.

Also maybe Davey Boy Smith Jnr will make a surprise appearance, imagine he is inserted into the match between Sheamus and Gunther

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] two things i just remembered to discuss with you guys.

what are your predictions for clash at the castle?

Nxt world's collide is going to happen the day after the clash. They've announced Ricochet vs Hayes and Breakker vs Tyler Bate. There are some other matches that involve wrestlers I don't really know about as I haven't watched NXT since that new year ppv. Have only caught a few glimpses plus 1 or 2 matches since as i was finding the burial of all the old guys quite annoying especially to the raw new guys who are extremely green. The only two guys that look legit from 2.0 are Nathan Frazer and Breakker. The show has literally had Cameron Grimes as the most experienced wrestler lol. I like Grimes, Hayes and Escobar though. Plus Vince and Prichard butchered the women's wrestling in NXT by going back to Divas era with hiring new model type women with 10 times more focus on looks and stuff than wrestling part.

Secondly, I feel like Sami is going to get beaten by the bloodline on this SD which might lead to Sami costing Roman the title at the Clash. Or maybe Sami costs Roman the title at the Clash and gets beaten on the next Raw cementing his face turn. For once I am really looking forward to a WWE title match where Roman actually has a chance to lose.

If I was to make a prediction, I’d say Reigns is going over but am like 55 in his favour. As for the rest of the card, I don’t think I care who wins or loses, poor booking.

I also struggle to understand why the World’s Collide PPV can not be held in the UK at the Motorpoint Arena in Cardiff, with it being the end of NXT UK and all, what a damn shame.

Btw did you check out the new AEW fight forever gameplay? thoughts

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There’s a reason why Strong in his entire career has won only 1 notable singles title, his best exploits have been in tag teams and being the third wheel, the guy is bang average in every department and has nothing on his resume to suggest he’d ever be a top singles star, I actually think Eugene was a bigger star then him in his prime. The less said about Kyle O Reily the better, another indy darling who people think is the second coming of Brock Lesnar when he is more like a Chinese version of Tajiri, who in their right mind would have him as a top singles star in TNA, let alone anywhere else, the dude looks like someones behind, seriously not even a mother could love that face. These guys are good workers who were protected well in tag teams, Gargano is like Shawn and Hogan combined compared to those bums, they could get the same push and wont ever get remotely over in the same way and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. They are not in the NXT umbrella either anymore are they, what is there to show?

Couldn't disagree more. You could make the argument that Strong is not a star, but his ring-work is excellent. And has been for over a decade. O'Reilly is maybe one of the best workers in the business with a style that's totally unique, his own and very realistic. Don't feel his ring-work can even be compared to Gargano's because of how much better it is, in every single way. O'Reilly could have been a far bigger star in NXT than he was if he was actually pushed at that level. He can also have believable matches with just about everyone...which is not something I can say for Gargano.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I guess Owen was as well. It was a great segment but damn that whole reign was terrible. Made the top card of SD a borefest that year. Even Taker and Gurrero couldn't put him over. I was vying for Big Show of all people to beat JBL in that ridiculous barbed wire cage match I remember.

I disagree. I thought JBL's title reign was maybe one of the best things in the history of the show. Here's a freakin' underneath talent who has never been anything but that for his entire WWE career. But the way in which he shedded his skin and transformed into JBL from Bradshaw, wasn't just brilliant but also felt very organic and in-line with who he actually was. The promos were brilliant and I loved the way he ditched Ron Simmons who was 'holding him back'.

In the ring, he looked like Stan Hansen and on the mic he sounded like a rich Texas snob that most people probably saw at some point of their lives; either on TV or in public...which made him a relatable personality who also knew how to get heat.

His reign was perfect in alot of ways. For one thing, SD! at that point of time was completely devoid of a compelling top heel. Not only was he able to become that but he also ended up being the perfect foil for Cena when the time came to elevate him to the top. IIRC JBL at that point in time was the longest reigning WWE Champion in the history of SD! which made him a worthy opponent to Cena, who was quickly transitioning into that Super Cena territory.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] two things i just remembered to discuss with you guys.

what are your predictions for clash at the castle?

Nxt world's collide is going to happen the day after the clash. They've announced Ricochet vs Hayes and Breakker vs Tyler Bate. There are some other matches that involve wrestlers I don't really know about as I haven't watched NXT since that new year ppv. Have only caught a few glimpses plus 1 or 2 matches since as i was finding the burial of all the old guys quite annoying especially to the raw new guys who are extremely green. The only two guys that look legit from 2.0 are Nathan Frazer and Breakker. The show has literally had Cameron Grimes as the most experienced wrestler lol. I like Grimes, Hayes and Escobar though. Plus Vince and Prichard butchered the women's wrestling in NXT by going back to Divas era with hiring new model type women with 10 times more focus on looks and stuff than wrestling part.

Secondly, I feel like Sami is going to get beaten by the bloodline on this SD which might lead to Sami costing Roman the title at the Clash. Or maybe Sami costs Roman the title at the Clash and gets beaten on the next Raw cementing his face turn. For once I am really looking forward to a WWE title match where Roman actually has a chance to lose.

Could be a pretty good show if they actually have the balls to put Drew over. Reigns's reign has been amazing but he has simply run out of challengers because he has literally beat everyone on the roster. I've maintained for a very long time that McIntyre should be the guy to beat him. And at Clash At the Castle, infront of his home crowd (figuratively speaking) he should go over. Not only would it be an incredible moment, but I think at the end of the day that's one of the biggest positives of having a top heel have a really long title reign. The guy who beats him is a made man.

They've already botched Drew's push once...although the pandemic could be blamed for that too. But they should not botch it again. The time is right, the build-up has been great...just put the belts on him.

If I'm not wrong, I believe that NXT's When Worlds Collide is the same day as All Out, which Meltzer is saying is a deliberate move by HHH to get back at Tony. And tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if it was because HHH is a pretty vindictive guy. But I question if that move may end up backfiring because All Out has a stacked card and as a PPV I am more excited for it then I am for even, Clash At the Castle. On top of that, AEW's PPVs have always done great business for a promotion that has been in the market for such a short period of time.

As for the NXT PPV itself, I can't say I will be watching because I stopped watching NXT long ago and have no idea how good or bad it is. All I know is that this has been booked as a farewell show for NXT UK, which is going under and being replaced by NXT Europe. So they are probably going to unify all the belts.

As for the whole Sami Zayn angle, I see this leading to a tag team match between The Usos and Owens/Zayn for both of the tag belts. They have been teasing a Sami babyface turn and this week on RAW they continued teasing it.

Owens and Zayn in the ring together in whichever capacity is just pure magic for me. They know each other like the back of their hands and winning the tag belts is something that both have not been able to do in WWE; neither together nor with someone else. I even remember Owens saying a long time back that he would love to win the tag team championship with Zayn in WWE. Usos are good heels who have been dominant for a long time. Personality-wise they have improved leaps and bounds ever since aligning themselves with Roman. So I like this story and am interested to see where it goes.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] two things i just remembered to discuss with you guys.

what are your predictions for clash at the castle?

Nxt world's collide is going to happen the day after the clash. They've announced Ricochet vs Hayes and Breakker vs Tyler Bate. There are some other matches that involve wrestlers I don't really know about as I haven't watched NXT since that new year ppv. Have only caught a few glimpses plus 1 or 2 matches since as i was finding the burial of all the old guys quite annoying especially to the raw new guys who are extremely green. The only two guys that look legit from 2.0 are Nathan Frazer and Breakker. The show has literally had Cameron Grimes as the most experienced wrestler lol. I like Grimes, Hayes and Escobar though. Plus Vince and Prichard butchered the women's wrestling in NXT by going back to Divas era with hiring new model type women with 10 times more focus on looks and stuff than wrestling part.

Secondly, I feel like Sami is going to get beaten by the bloodline on this SD which might lead to Sami costing Roman the title at the Clash. Or maybe Sami costs Roman the title at the Clash and gets beaten on the next Raw cementing his face turn. For once I am really looking forward to a WWE title match where Roman actually has a chance to lose.

My predictions are that it will probably be a predictable show barring maybe the main-event. Don't care about the womens matches. So keeping them aside, I'd say WALTER beats Sheamus in a potentially great stiff, smash fest. Rollins beats Riddle by cheating. Edge and Mysterio beat the Judgement Day, because I desperately need this feud to end...although Dominik could turn heel and keep this miserable feud going too. And McIntrye beats Reigns.

 

[shaz619]

Couldn't disagree more. You could make the argument that Strong is not a star, but his ring-work is excellent. And has been for over a decade. O'Reilly is maybe one of the best workers in the business with a style that's totally unique, his own and very realistic. Don't feel his ring-work can even be compared to Gargano's because of how much better it is, in every single way. O'Reilly could have been a far bigger star in NXT than he was if he was actually pushed at that level. He can also have believable matches with just about everyone...which is not something I can say for Gargano.

His ring work is good but what else is there to the guy which can be monetised. He went head to head with Gargano under the smarks favourite promoter and didn’t even come third place. It’s always harder being a baby then heel, to have developed an organic connection with the fans and been a part of arguably the greatest feuds in NXT history with Cole and Ciampa says something. Strong has never finished inside the top 10 PWI 500 even once in his career and I don’t think even Dave has been that kind to him considering he was away from WWE, Gargano got the coveted 5* multiple times under the E umbrella. If I was starting a company where my aim is to sell out a bingo hall and do 300-500 people every week, maybe Strong would be on my short list, will this guy ever be capable of being a decent draw and competing for the top title in premier companies? doubt it, Gargano might be able to strive for the Bryan template in the E though because he has shown he can do that although it was on a smaller scale but it’s something. I also regard that street fight with Ciampa one of the best I’ve ever seen, top 5 this century.

O’Riley is a great worker but would never be a top guy anywhere lets be honest no matter how hard he is pushed. How are things for these guys now that they have left? Strong was begging for a release

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think it’s an abomination that AJ Styles is not booked, Huntdeep is this GOAT level booker right, how does he not have arguably the best wrestler on the planet on the card who btw is almost as popular as the Hitman was in the UK, it’s pretty staggering. If AJ was booked in a high profile singles bout, I may have gone.

NXT 2.0 has been hipster smarks favourite whipping boy of recent months when they don’t even watch it, sure it doesn’t scribe to the indy fanbase but while many thought it was vindictive, I actually think Vince was doing 10x better job trying to groom the next big main eventer’s for the main roster while Huntdeep was trying to get his ego massaged by smarks and playing Heyman when he will never be fit to tie his shoe laces. I never heard of Bron Breaker during the Black and Gold era, if Huntdeep was booking him he’d have used the vanilla midgets to destroy him, Huntdeep never had an issue with the smaller guys because in his mind he was superior to them physically, but if someone could surpass him hmmm then things get interesting. Oh and who can overlook Mandy Rose, what a star, I’ve followed her since tough enough and she is our era’s Trish but more athletic imo she is incredible man and that Divas era made me fall in love in wrestling these guys know those women have $$ written all over them and they can work to during that time gals like Molly Holly, Victoria, Lita, Trish etc are very under rated even Trish could hang with this era’s best in Charlotte, I think at World’s Collide the NXT 2.0 will show how easy it is to wrestle, the harder part is to develop your character and have some presence in the ring.

Yeah it books itself doesn’t, you do a stadium show in the UK and you just think, hmm maybe the home favourite will go over? I don’t give credit to the hipster favourite for this one. The go home show for RAW was horrible. And that could happen with Sami but I was thinking along the lines of the bloodline butchering him which sets up Sami’s face turn and subsequently Roman’s next program, but you are right Sami could still cost him the title or perhaps Tyson Fury will be involved in the main event to.

Also maybe Davey Boy Smith Jnr will make a surprise appearance, imagine he is inserted into the match between Sheamus and Gunther

Yeah I probably spoke too soon. RAW was atrocious this week. Barring maybe that Rollins/Riddle interview segment.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

His ring work is good but what else is there to the guy which can be monetised. He went head to head with Gargano under the smarks favourite promoter and didn’t even come third place. It’s always harder being a baby then heel, to have developed an organic connection with the fans and been a part of arguably the greatest feuds in NXT history with Cole and Ciampa says something. Strong has never finished inside the top 10 PWI 500 even once in his career and I don’t think even Dave has been that kind to him considering he was away from WWE, Gargano got the coveted 5* multiple times under the E umbrella. If I was starting a company where my aim is to sell out a bingo hall and do 300-500 people every week, maybe Strong would be on my short list, will this guy ever be capable of being a decent draw and competing for the top title in premier companies? doubt it, Gargano might be able to strive for the Bryan template in the E though because he has shown he can do that although it was on a smaller scale but it’s something. I also regard that street fight with Ciampa one of the best I’ve ever seen, top 5 this century.

O’Riley is a great worker but would never be a top guy anywhere lets be honest no matter how hard he is pushed. How are things for these guys now that they have left? Strong was begging for a release

Agree to disagree I guess. Because I absolutely hated that Ciampa/Gargano Street Fight. It reminded me of the worst, most indulgent aspects of HHH's booking. In certain ways it reminded me of that absolutely indulgent Three Stages of Hell match that he had with Shawn during the heyday of the RA Era that went on forever. The best thing that Gargano has ever done imo is that 2/3 falls match with Cole which might be one of the greatest matches I've ever seen. But I would say that Gargano has more bingo hall written over him than Strong. Because Strong is 5'10, 200+ pounds, works like a guy of his size and can be believable in any environment. As for Gargano, I think everyone except Rey and Darby is taller than him. And he isn't one tenth the seller that either of those guys are.

O'Reilly is injured but he also has a 5 year deal with AEW. So whether he will ever be a star or not, will be evident in this run. Strong is still with WWE and by the looks of it, will likely reunite with Bobby Fish, who I've heard won't be getting his contract renewed. Which is unfortunate because I personally loved reDragon.

 

[shaz619]

Could be a pretty good show if they actually have the balls to put Drew over. Reigns's reign has been amazing but he has simply run out of challengers because he has literally beat everyone on the roster. I've maintained for a very long time that McIntyre should be the guy to beat him. And at Clash At the Castle, infront of his home crowd (figuratively speaking) he should go over. Not only would it be an incredible moment, but I think at the end of the day that's one of the biggest positives of having a top heel have a really long title reign. The guy who beats him is a made man.

They've already botched Drew's push once...although the pandemic could be blamed for that too. But they should not botch it again. The time is right, the build-up has been great...just put the belts on him.

If I'm not wrong, I believe that NXT's When Worlds Collide is the same day as All Out, which Meltzer is saying is a deliberate move by HHH to get back at Tony. And tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if it was because HHH is a pretty vindictive guy. But I question if that move may end up backfiring because All Out has a stacked card and as a PPV I am more excited for it then I am for even, Clash At the Castle. On top of that, AEW's PPVs have always done great business for a promotion that has been in the market for such a short period of time.

As for the NXT PPV itself, I can't say I will be watching because I stopped watching NXT long ago and have no idea how good or bad it is. All I know is that this has been booked as a farewell show for NXT UK, which is going under and being replaced by NXT Europe. So they are probably going to unify all the belts.

As for the whole Sami Zayn angle, I see this leading to a tag team match between The Usos and Owens/Zayn for both of the tag belts. They have been teasing a Sami babyface turn and this week on RAW they continued teasing it.

Owens and Zayn in the ring together in whichever capacity is just pure magic for me. They know each other like the back of their hands and winning the tag belts is something that both have not been able to do in WWE; neither together nor with someone else. I even remember Owens saying a long time back that he would love to win the tag team championship with Zayn in WWE. Usos are good heels who have been dominant for a long time. Personality-wise they have improved leaps and bounds ever since aligning themselves with Roman. So I like this story and am interested to see where it goes.

Hunter is one million percent is vindictive but Dave got the wrong guy, he’s being vindictive towards Vince not Tony. NXT Takeover shows are always going to be either on the Sat or Sund, in the UK majority of sporting events sell well on a Saturday, whether it’s Boxing or anything really, Saturday events tend to be sold as nights out which means the NXT show has to settle for Sunday. I can’t imagine how World’s Collide would compete with AEW remotely really, for one two different platforms, WWE have never sold NXT on PPV, and those who are watching Saturdays castle event already get the NXT show for free through the Network subscription and as far as am aware, AEW is largely watched by the anti-WWE crowd right, most these guys wont say it but they will tune in for a big WWE event and **** about it on social media but it’s hard to see them spare some time for NXT 2.0 which has been targeting development mainly and if it has an audience which watch it, it’s aimed at the casuals.

But if you had one argument which suggests otherwise then it would be the show being held in the performance centre when they should be doing the event in the UK, but at the same time you could argue it’s throwing a bone at the US audience who wont get the castle event at their usual PPV times but at least it’s not bad like for us in the UK when we had to be up at 1am

 

[shaz619]

Agree to disagree I guess. Because I absolutely hated that Ciampa/Gargano Street Fight. It reminded me of the worst, most indulgent aspects of HHH's booking. In certain ways it reminded me of that absolutely indulgent Three Stages of Hell match that he had with Shawn during the heyday of the RA Era that went on forever. The best thing that Gargano has ever done imo is that 2/3 falls match with Cole which might be one of the greatest matches I've ever seen. But I would say that Gargano has more bingo hall written over him than Strong. Because Strong is 5'10, 200+ pounds, works like a guy of his size and can be believable in any environment. As for Gargano, I think everyone except Rey and Darby is taller than him. And he isn't one tenth the seller that either of those guys are.

O'Reilly is injured but he also has a 5 year deal with AEW. So whether he will ever be a star or not, will be evident in this run. Strong is still with WWE and by the looks of it, will likely reunite with Bobby Fish, who I've heard won't be getting his contract renewed. Which is unfortunate because I personally loved reDragon.

But it says something that despite Strong having the look and what not that he has largely failed as a singles guy, to be outperformed by a midget then is even worse even though their billed height is around about the same. I didn’t realise Strong is still with WWE but at this stage of his career I feel he would be best utilised jobbing to guys like Gargano unless he is utilised in a tag team capacity, then I feel Strong can reach his potential given his experience in this area. O’Rilley is an old timer to, if AEW couldn’t book Cole then again his ceiling is also tag team wrestling

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Btw can we talk about how great Ricky Stark's promo on Dynamite was last week? I mean holy hell what a talent this kid is. The buildup to this feud with Hobbs has been far from perfect. But the fire and personality he showed in this promo...wow, just wow.

This is one of those occasions where I agree wholeheartedly with Jim and Brian. It's a travesty that Garcia and Yuta are getting pushed over Starks and Hobbs. And it's not because I think Garcia and Yuta are not good or won't be good. I've been a proponent of them for quite some time. But how can anyone who watched Garcia's promo and then Starks's promo, on the very same show seriously say that Garcia deserves to be working with Danielson over Starks?

But it's like they say, you can't keep a good man down. Starks will rise to the top. It would help if Tony gave him as much love as he has for Garcia or Yuta, but I refuse to believe that you can keep such a naturally gifted guy down.

 

[shaz619]

Btw can we talk about how great Ricky Stark's promo on Dynamite was last week? I mean holy hell what a talent this kid is. The buildup to this feud with Hobbs has been far from perfect. But the fire and personality he showed in this promo...wow, just wow.

This is one of those occasions where I agree wholeheartedly with Jim and Brian. It's a travesty that Garcia and Yuta are getting pushed over Starks and Hobbs. And it's not because I think Garcia and Yuta are not good or won't be good. I've been a proponent of them for quite some time. But how can anyone who watched Garcia's promo and then Starks's promo, on the very same show seriously say that Garcia deserves to be working with Danielson over Starks?

But it's like they say, you can't keep a good man down. Starks will rise to the top. It would help if Tony gave him as much love as he has for Garcia or Yuta, but I refuse to believe that you can keep such a naturally gifted guy down.

Hobbs has also showed more personality then Yuta and Garcia combined, Starks will help bring out his best to perhaps

 

[shaz619]

Agree to disagree I guess. Because I absolutely hated that Ciampa/Gargano Street Fight. It reminded me of the worst, most indulgent aspects of HHH's booking. In certain ways it reminded me of that absolutely indulgent Three Stages of Hell match that he had with Shawn during the heyday of the RA Era that went on forever. The best thing that Gargano has ever done imo is that 2/3 falls match with Cole which might be one of the greatest matches I've ever seen. But I would say that Gargano has more bingo hall written over him than Strong. Because Strong is 5'10, 200+ pounds, works like a guy of his size and can be believable in any environment. As for Gargano, I think everyone except Rey and Darby is taller than him. And he isn't one tenth the seller that either of those guys are.

O'Reilly is injured but he also has a 5 year deal with AEW. So whether he will ever be a star or not, will be evident in this run. Strong is still with WWE and by the looks of it, will likely reunite with Bobby Fish, who I've heard won't be getting his contract renewed. Which is unfortunate because I personally loved reDragon.

Man the amount of legends they had to use to get 4/10 over is pretty staggering looking back. On that Ciampa/Gargano match first I’ve heard of anyone ever disliking the street fight, I will watch it again and look out for the abdominal stretch in that case

 

[shaz619]

Btw can we talk about how great Ricky Stark's promo on Dynamite was last week? I mean holy hell what a talent this kid is. The buildup to this feud with Hobbs has been far from perfect. But the fire and personality he showed in this promo...wow, just wow.

This is one of those occasions where I agree wholeheartedly with Jim and Brian. It's a travesty that Garcia and Yuta are getting pushed over Starks and Hobbs. And it's not because I think Garcia and Yuta are not good or won't be good. I've been a proponent of them for quite some time. But how can anyone who watched Garcia's promo and then Starks's promo, on the very same show seriously say that Garcia deserves to be working with Danielson over Starks?

But it's like they say, you can't keep a good man down. Starks will rise to the top. It would help if Tony gave him as much love as he has for Garcia or Yuta, but I refuse to believe that you can keep such a naturally gifted guy down.

People kept saying AEW is elevating the promising talent but it seems like their efforts have been wasted or plagued by politics.

FTR
Undisputed Era
Private Party
Ricky Starks
MJF
Wardlow

These guys have had their moments don’t get me wrong, but have not had a rocket strapped to their backs lets be real. If they were anywhere else people would be crying about their booking

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

People kept saying AEW is elevating the promising talent but it seems like their efforts have been wasted or plagued by politics.

FTR
Undisputed Era
Private Party
Ricky Starks
MJF
Wardlow

These guys have had their moments don’t get me wrong, but have not had a rocket strapped to their backs lets be real. If they were anywhere else people would be crying about their booking

Well one of the biggest reasons that is the case is because of those three smarmy p***** in the dressing room. The most insecure bunch of jackovs in the wrestling business today. Who have gotten even more insecure because of the actual, top-level stars that have come into AEW in the last year...who also aren't their friends. I mean it was practically a no-brainer for the Bucks to do the job to FTR at the PPV, for all the belts. The stage was set. FTR were over like gangbusters, the Bucks had go-away heat but it was massive heat nonetheless because the people were literally chanting "FTR" during their promos. And what do they do? turn themselves babyface and lose the belts to freakin' Swerve and Keith Lee?

If anyone had any doubt these these three are little more than a bunch of insecure, politicking little s**ts, surely there should be no doubt anymore. And now they are going to give us the biggest self-gesticulating exhibition of performance art at the PPV where they will want people to cry over the emotional 3 year story between them and their friends. Take a freakin' hike lol. Seriously eff these guys for burying FTR. I hope to God that they leave the company sooner rather than later. And that can only happen if Tony actually grows a pair and puts his foot down.

 

[shaz619]

Well one of the biggest reasons that is the case is because of those three smarmy p***** in the dressing room. The most insecure bunch of jackovs in the wrestling business today. Who have gotten even more insecure because of the actual, top-level stars that have come into AEW in the last year...who also aren't their friends. I mean it was practically a no-brainer for the Bucks to do the job to FTR at the PPV, for all the belts. The stage was set. FTR were over like gangbusters, the Bucks had go-away heat but it was massive heat nonetheless because the people were literally chanting "FTR" during their promos. And what do they do? turn themselves babyface and lose the belts to freakin' Swerve and Keith Lee?

If anyone had any doubt these these three are little more than a bunch of insecure, politicking little s**ts, surely there should be no doubt anymore. And now they are going to give us the biggest self-gesticulating exhibition of performance art at the PPV where they will want people to cry over the emotional 3 year story between them and their friends. Take a freakin' hike lol. Seriously eff these guys for burying FTR. I hope to God that they leave the company sooner rather than later. And that can only happen if Tony actually grows a pair and puts his foot down.

Jim and Brian have been right about those guys from day one, at first I had some doubts maybe he was plugging his thing but he has been right all the way about Kenny and the Bucks, its also why he didn’t join AEW.

FTR are not even in FightForever for some reason, what did you think of the new gameplay? and when does FTR contract run out

 

[BunnyRabbit]

My predictions are that it will probably be a predictable show barring maybe the main-event. Don't care about the womens matches. So keeping them aside, I'd say WALTER beats Sheamus in a potentially great stiff, smash fest. Rollins beats Riddle by cheating. Edge and Mysterio beat the Judgement Day, because I desperately need this feud to end...although Dominik could turn heel and keep this miserable feud going too. And McIntrye beats Reigns.

I am excited about the main event but I hope it's not overbooked with interferences and stuff. Just a clean traditional wrestling match unless they prove me wrong with doing something great.

Sheamus vs Walter is a match I can see British fans would love to see. It is actually the one match totally that totally caters to that. I guess they both will be faces for that match. I am not particularly excited about the match for some reason. But I guess it'll be a good match.

I only wanted an Edge vs Balor singles match. Don't know why they have been stretching it out so much, first by adding Mysterios and then Beth. Although the 4 guys are exceptional with two ATGs there, but I think the match will serve more as an angle than a good wrestled match which totally sucks. Dom will probably turn heel and blah blah. Sometimes the gimmick destroys the match just like AJ vs Edge at Mania.

When that Seth vs Riddle feud started, I felt like it was simply a feud that for a sake of feud. But delaying the match from Summerslam, they have actually made this feud catch some heat. Could see a charged up Riddle here for a change. Maybe Randy can return once Seth beats Riddle.

Not caring about any women's match.

 

[shaz619]

Well one of the biggest reasons that is the case is because of those three smarmy p***** in the dressing room. The most insecure bunch of jackovs in the wrestling business today. Who have gotten even more insecure because of the actual, top-level stars that have come into AEW in the last year...who also aren't their friends. I mean it was practically a no-brainer for the Bucks to do the job to FTR at the PPV, for all the belts. The stage was set. FTR were over like gangbusters, the Bucks had go-away heat but it was massive heat nonetheless because the people were literally chanting "FTR" during their promos. And what do they do? turn themselves babyface and lose the belts to freakin' Swerve and Keith Lee?

If anyone had any doubt these these three are little more than a bunch of insecure, politicking little s**ts, surely there should be no doubt anymore. And now they are going to give us the biggest self-gesticulating exhibition of performance art at the PPV where they will want people to cry over the emotional 3 year story between them and their friends. Take a freakin' hike lol. Seriously eff these guys for burying FTR. I hope to God that they leave the company sooner rather than later. And that can only happen if Tony actually grows a pair and puts his foot down.

Jim and Brian have been right about those guys from day one, at first I had some doubts maybe he was plugging his thing but he has been right all the way about Kenny and the Bucks, its also why he didn’t join AEW.

FTR are not even in FightForever for some reason, what did you think of the new gameplay? and when does FTR contract run out

It’s like we have our very own crystal ball. Did you read Ospreay’s tweet just now exposing Kenny Olivier, he may have been behind the recent presentation of Okada as well. All these guys have been made to look like average stars and second fiddle to the elite, that Kenny introduction was pure cringe, he didn’t need that but it speaks of how insecure these little dweebs are

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Could be a pretty good show if they actually have the balls to put Drew over. Reigns's reign has been amazing but he has simply run out of challengers because he has literally beat everyone on the roster. I've maintained for a very long time that McIntyre should be the guy to beat him. And at Clash At the Castle, infront of his home crowd (figuratively speaking) he should go over. Not only would it be an incredible moment, but I think at the end of the day that's one of the biggest positives of having a top heel have a really long title reign. The guy who beats him is a made man.

They've already botched Drew's push once...although the pandemic could be blamed for that too. But they should not botch it again. The time is right, the build-up has been great...just put the belts on him.

If I'm not wrong, I believe that NXT's When Worlds Collide is the same day as All Out, which Meltzer is saying is a deliberate move by HHH to get back at Tony. And tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if it was because HHH is a pretty vindictive guy. But I question if that move may end up backfiring because All Out has a stacked card and as a PPV I am more excited for it then I am for even, Clash At the Castle. On top of that, AEW's PPVs have always done great business for a promotion that has been in the market for such a short period of time.

As for the NXT PPV itself, I can't say I will be watching because I stopped watching NXT long ago and have no idea how good or bad it is. All I know is that this has been booked as a farewell show for NXT UK, which is going under and being replaced by NXT Europe. So they are probably going to unify all the belts.

As for the whole Sami Zayn angle, I see this leading to a tag team match between The Usos and Owens/Zayn for both of the tag belts. They have been teasing a Sami babyface turn and this week on RAW they continued teasing it.

Owens and Zayn in the ring together in whichever capacity is just pure magic for me. They know each other like the back of their hands and winning the tag belts is something that both have not been able to do in WWE; neither together nor with someone else. I even remember Owens saying a long time back that he would love to win the tag team championship with Zayn in WWE. Usos are good heels who have been dominant for a long time. Personality-wise they have improved leaps and bounds ever since aligning themselves with Roman. So I like this story and am interested to see where it goes.

Have stopped following any dirtsheet or Meltzer, I feel like it's started to make wrestling more enjoyable.
It'd be a disservice for KO and Zayn if they have to feud with the usos rather than Reigns cause I'd want them in singles feud in the top card.

Regarding All Out, AEW does make great PPVs. I am interested about the casino ladder match.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

If I was to make a prediction, I’d say Reigns is going over but am like 55 in his favour. As for the rest of the card, I don’t think I care who wins or loses, poor booking.

I also struggle to understand why the World’s Collide PPV can not be held in the UK at the Motorpoint Arena in Cardiff, with it being the end of NXT UK and all, what a damn shame.

Btw did you check out the new AEW fight forever gameplay? thoughts

Nah man I haven't. Haven't even played wwe 2k22 yet. Haven't played Ps4 for around a year.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I disagree. I thought JBL's title reign was maybe one of the best things in the history of the show. Here's a freakin' underneath talent who has never been anything but that for his entire WWE career. But the way in which he shedded his skin and transformed into JBL from Bradshaw, wasn't just brilliant but also felt very organic and in-line with who he actually was. The promos were brilliant and I loved the way he ditched Ron Simmons who was 'holding him back'.

In the ring, he looked like Stan Hansen and on the mic he sounded like a rich Texas snob that most people probably saw at some point of their lives; either on TV or in public...which made him a relatable personality who also knew how to get heat.

His reign was perfect in alot of ways. For one thing, SD! at that point of time was completely devoid of a compelling top heel. Not only was he able to become that but he also ended up being the perfect foil for Cena when the time came to elevate him to the top. IIRC JBL at that point in time was the longest reigning WWE Champion in the history of SD! which made him a worthy opponent to Cena, who was quickly transitioning into that Super Cena territory.

It was a great heel character I agree. He was really despicable. But the match quality never appealed to me. When Cena actually defeated him, I was sooo relieved. After his feud with Cena JBL never really found himself in the hunt for the top title I think.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Jim and Brian have been right about those guys from day one, at first I had some doubts maybe he was plugging his thing but he has been right all the way about Kenny and the Bucks, its also why he didn’t join AEW.

FTR are not even in FightForever for some reason, what did you think of the new gameplay? and when does FTR contract run out

I used to think the same. But now it has become patently obvious. And if anything, FTR's comments seem to reinforce this more than anything else. I was on FightfulSelect an hour ago and apparently they did an interview with insideSport where they literally said the exact same thing that I said above: We are over...Bucks had heat...we thought we were going to have a match for all the belts at All Out. I mean that more than anything, tells me that Jim, Brian are completely right.

I don't think even Tony is stupid enough to let that happen. He is stupid...stupid enough to make these clowns EVPs but I don't see him letting their contracts run out. Besides, FTR for all intents and purposes seem to be very sour on WWE. And that includes the new darling of the internet: HHH, as well as Shawn, who buried these two with their friends at that RAW 25th anniversary show back in 2018.

Apologies for not answering your question on the game. Somehow it slipped my mind repeatedly. Yeah, I think its absolutely shocking that FTR is not in the game. The reasons it seems, has nothing to do with politics and is just down to the ineptness of the developers but still, its shocking to me that they are not in the game.

As for the gameplay, not gonna lie I really dig it. It seems to have a very arcade feel and kinda reminds me of that WWE All Stars game from the early 2010s, which was an awful game but a good arcade game. I am really interested in the story mode and how good that is because ultimately that's what I judge a wrestling game on primarily. The gameplay is absolutely integral and greatly effects your ability to enjoy the game but I think ultimately there's only so many times you can play the game for fun. The story mode gives you something deeper.

The roster size is by far the most concerning thing to me about this game right now. It is very thin and supposedly missing a number of key stars while actually having others like Emi Sakura, Abadon on the roster.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I think it’s an abomination that AJ Styles is not booked, Huntdeep is this GOAT level booker right, how does he not have arguably the best wrestler on the planet on the card who btw is almost as popular as the Hitman was in the UK, it’s pretty staggering. If AJ was booked in a high profile singles bout, I may have gone.

NXT 2.0 has been hipster smarks favourite whipping boy of recent months when they don’t even watch it, sure it doesn’t scribe to the indy fanbase but while many thought it was vindictive, I actually think Vince was doing 10x better job trying to groom the next big main eventer’s for the main roster while Huntdeep was trying to get his ego massaged by smarks and playing Heyman when he will never be fit to tie his shoe laces. I never heard of Bron Breaker during the Black and Gold era, if Huntdeep was booking him he’d have used the vanilla midgets to destroy him, Huntdeep never had an issue with the smaller guys because in his mind he was superior to them physically, but if someone could surpass him hmmm then things get interesting. Oh and who can overlook Mandy Rose, what a star, I’ve followed her since tough enough and she is our era’s Trish but more athletic imo she is incredible man and that Divas era made me fall in love in wrestling these guys know those women have $$ written all over them and they can work to during that time gals like Molly Holly, Victoria, Lita, Trish etc are very under rated even Trish could hang with this era’s best in Charlotte, I think at World’s Collide the NXT 2.0 will show how easy it is to wrestle, the harder part is to develop your character and have some presence in the ring.

Yeah it books itself doesn’t, you do a stadium show in the UK and you just think, hmm maybe the home favourite will go over? I don’t give credit to the hipster favourite for this one. The go home show for RAW was horrible. And that could happen with Sami but I was thinking along the lines of the bloodline butchering him which sets up Sami’s face turn and subsequently Roman’s next program, but you are right Sami could still cost him the title or perhaps Tyson Fury will be involved in the main event to.

Also maybe Davey Boy Smith Jnr will make a surprise appearance, imagine he is inserted into the match between Sheamus and Gunther

AJ vs Ciampa would have actually made a great match. Definitely a downer not booking him on the card.

Not familiar with Davey Boy Smith Jr.

Bron was signed just a few months before NXT 2.0 started. He was in the performance center I think. But yes they may have delayed his debut for a month maybe. Breakker has been the only guy that's been sort of a success cause he has that look and skills. He still needs to mature a lot in regards to his mic skills though. Grayson Waller started off great and he was great in the ring and did develop a good heel personality but haven't heard about any prominent feud since his feud with AJ. Other guys Tony D, Xyon Quinn and Von Wagner have been abject failures to be honest. Tony D is extremely boring to watch as a wrestler and his Italian gimmick is simply not for me. I liked Joe Gacy but they've given him some spooky gimmick from what I've heard although his earlier woke culture gimmick was pretty fun. Gacy has had a good run in the indies and one of the most accomplished guys in NXT alongside Escobar. Gacy has great presence and can work really well but I don't like the current gimmick he's having cause once he goes to the main roster it will always be compared to the Taker and Bray and pale in comparison.

Apart from that, it's been good to have those Grizzled Young Veterans being actually given a gimmick for a change. Have actually made them something to care about.

Cameron Grimes and Escobar were always good and look dead set to be on the main roster. Escobar might not be as good as Andrade in the ring but his mic skills and charisma more than makes up for it and a feud with Mysterio would be pretty good. I'd credit Vince and Co for making Grimes' presentation better with trimmed facial hair and non messy hair and his theme song has actually been one of my favorites.

I love Hayes, that guy has it in him to become a very very good wrestler.

Regarding women's wrestling, Trish couldn't wrestle till she returned around in 2001 or 2002. Lita and Molly Holly were great workers but seriously that was not wrestling at all in regards to what they were made to do like Jazz(another talented wrestler who could really wrestle), Kat, Sable, Torrie Wilson in those lame horny segments. I'd actually say that was more like borderline pornography. Lita and Edge doing it infront of the crowd and stuff. I'd take the likes of what Becky, Bayley, Bianca,Asuka,Rhea etc offer over those segments any day. Regarding Mandy Rose, she has definitely become an altogether different star since going back to NXT. Better personality, gimmick, presence and mic skills.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It was a great heel character I agree. He was really despicable. But the match quality never appealed to me. When Cena actually defeated him, I was sooo relieved. After his feud with Cena JBL never really found himself in the hunt for the top title I think.

Well granted, JBL was no workhorse in the ring but I do remember him having some very good-excellent matches. The best one was without a doubt the I Quit Match against Cena at Judgement Day, which to this day is one of my all-time favorite WWE matches and imo the best John Cena match. This was a classical, old-school bloodbath...the proverbial rubber match to end the feud. Other than that I enjoyed his bullrope match against Eddie...another bloodbath. And I faintly remember him having some very good matches on SD! too. So for me atleast, JBL overdelivered as a heel and a wrestler. Especially when you consider who he was coming into this role and how awful SD! had become in 2004.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Btw can we talk about how great Ricky Stark's promo on Dynamite was last week? I mean holy hell what a talent this kid is. The buildup to this feud with Hobbs has been far from perfect. But the fire and personality he showed in this promo...wow, just wow.

This is one of those occasions where I agree wholeheartedly with Jim and Brian. It's a travesty that Garcia and Yuta are getting pushed over Starks and Hobbs. And it's not because I think Garcia and Yuta are not good or won't be good. I've been a proponent of them for quite some time. But how can anyone who watched Garcia's promo and then Starks's promo, on the very same show seriously say that Garcia deserves to be working with Danielson over Starks?

But it's like they say, you can't keep a good man down. Starks will rise to the top. It would help if Tony gave him as much love as he has for Garcia or Yuta, but I refuse to believe that you can keep such a naturally gifted guy down.

We discussed about that guerilla fanbase that overhyped every up coming to the moon that would put hindrance to their development in the long run. I think this has been the place where Starks has gotten an edge over the likes of Yuta and Garcia. He was never pushed or even seen as something big yet he kept working hard and developing lowkey and he is now at a place where he looks far better than those overpushed guys like Garcia and Yuta.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Have stopped following any dirtsheet or Meltzer, I feel like it's started to make wrestling more enjoyable.
It'd be a disservice for KO and Zayn if they have to feud with the usos rather than Reigns cause I'd want them in singles feud in the top card.

Regarding All Out, AEW does make great PPVs. I am interested about the casino ladder match.

I understand why you feel that way. And the biggest reason is that WWE has totally devalued tag team wrestling since maybe the early 2000s. They are viewed as merely a stepping stone to bigger and better things. But that doesn't have to be the case. You can still make tag team wrestling compelling by having good tag teams in there that can have great matches and have good chemistry in the ring.

Personally, I would love nothing more than to see KO as World Champion again. But I feel like we will be treading familiar territory because these two did get in a feud back in 2020/21. And honestly I want to see KO as one of the top guys in WWE which means he should be protected and not put in positions where he can be beaten by someone bigger than him or even on roughly the same level as him. This is why I actually didn't mind the DQ finish they did in his match with McIntyre a couple of weeks back.

Yeah I have always been a big fan of these MITB style Ladder matches. And I think Tony has come up with a novel idea here with the Casino Ladder Match which is basically a mix of Royal Rumble and MITB. In recent years the surprise entrant has usually been a massive bleh. But this year I am holding out hope that its MJF. Let's see what happens. If anything, it will certainly be a car crash...which is exactly what it should be.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It’s like we have our very own crystal ball. Did you read Ospreay’s tweet just now exposing Kenny Olivier, he may have been behind the recent presentation of Okada as well. All these guys have been made to look like average stars and second fiddle to the elite, that Kenny introduction was pure cringe, he didn’t need that but it speaks of how insecure these little dweebs are

I didn't. Tbh I'm not quite sure if these two are working or shooting. But I don't think there's absolutely any doubt that they guys are a bunch of insecure, unprofessional little dweebs. I don't care about their in-ring ability or the amount of good to great matches they can have. And this is also yet another instance of why you absolutely should not have active wrestlers involved in booking or creative. Barring a handful of examples (Dusty, Lawler, maybe Onita), I feel like its something that always backfires eventually and ends up getting the booker massive heat with the boys because sooner or later the wrestler being a wrestler wants to put himself over. And whether that is for the right reasons or the wrong reasons its something that is bound to get you heat in the locker-room.

From Bockwinkle to Inoki to Sullivan to Nash to even Flair, it does not seem like this strategy has worked much over the years.

Btw did you hear about the talent meeting Tony called where these dweebs actually got a chance to speak? Some of the stories I'm hearing online are absolutely hilarious.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I am excited about the main event but I hope it's not overbooked with interferences and stuff. Just a clean traditional wrestling match unless they prove me wrong with doing something great.

Sheamus vs Walter is a match I can see British fans would love to see. It is actually the one match totally that totally caters to that. I guess they both will be faces for that match. I am not particularly excited about the match for some reason. But I guess it'll be a good match.

I only wanted an Edge vs Balor singles match. Don't know why they have been stretching it out so much, first by adding Mysterios and then Beth. Although the 4 guys are exceptional with two ATGs there, but I think the match will serve more as an angle than a good wrestled match which totally sucks. Dom will probably turn heel and blah blah. Sometimes the gimmick destroys the match just like AJ vs Edge at Mania.

When that Seth vs Riddle feud started, I felt like it was simply a feud that for a sake of feud. But delaying the match from Summerslam, they have actually made this feud catch some heat. Could see a charged up Riddle here for a change. Maybe Randy can return once Seth beats Riddle.

Not caring about any women's match.

Riddle actually got his name back lol. For real though, that interview segment with Rollins was intense and brilliantly executed. It felt real and different, and the intensity that both guys showed was incredible.

Yeah no point putting Drew over if you are going to do it in a hackneyed manner with someone interfering. Drew has done the job for Roman numerous times. The time is right to strap a rocket to Drew's back and make a star out of him. Roman has had a legendary run but the time may be right to put an end to it. He could win one of the belts back and maybe feud with Cody when he comes back, but right now its Drew's time.

Sheamus v WALTER should open the show imo. That's a match that feels like it was booked specifically for a European audience as you noted. It will get a big reaction.