The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[RedwoodOriginal]

Matt Hardy tweeted a pic with Page afterwards indicating he is siding with the Bucks.

KO tweeted a pic with Austin main-eventing Mnaia, which many see as a dig aimed at Punk.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Another thing is, if Punk gets fired, his wrestling career will end. He won't be accepted in WWE. Impact or NJPW or any other promotion won't be able to give him the money he wants.

If The Elite are fired, they will go back to the indies and NJPW and being back to the life they were living before (I believe it would not be as comfortable as it is in AEW).

Trips was only interested in hiring them as a way to prevent AEW from launching. Now, he might only be interested in maybe Page. Tag team as we all know it, don't have much value in WWE.

 

[shaz619]

I've seen both of his videos. And like I said, I don't disagree with Punk's principle. But as the face of the company you've got to be more rational and responsible. Think about how your actions will affect the rest of the locker-room, the company and the fans.

And I disagree. Tony cannot control anyone. He can't control Punk and he can't control The Elite. He already has ALOT on his plate just producing shows. It's not his job to put out fires and disagreements and know what was leaked to the media and what wasn't. As Punk himself said in the presser, "it's not your job to clarify". That falls on talent relations and the various backstage staff involved in that capacity. Do you remember Vince ever being able to successfully solve Shawn and Bret's differences?

What has happened now though has happened. I just hope that going forward cooler heads prevail.

One thing that I see though, regardless of where you may stand on this issue (and it doesn't take a genius to figure this out), is that Punk is the golden goose. Punk followed by Moxley, Jericho, Danielson
and possibly MJF are the only kind of actual money/ratings-drawing stars in this company. The rest are not draws no matter what they may tell themselves to make themselves happy. On top of that, if these guys (The Elite) decide to walk-out, where are they gonna go? New Japan? That bridge has already been burned? WWE? That would probably be the most hypocritical thing they could do to their own fans, so I doubt it. IMPACT? Good luck lol.

Point is, Punk can walk-out/be fired and the company will not only be worse off but could actually go into serious decline as a result of it. If these guys leave, it will make next to nothing of an impact on business and maybe a little/minute difference for the company.

I see what you mean but it is Tony Khan’s job to handle talent isn’t it, this guy doesn’t have a team helping him, he is a money mark / fan who is playing wrestling and getting to hang out with these raslers. Not even Vince was stupid enough to literally do everything but was able to delegate, he had a trusted team of people and I know some of them we don’t like but there was order and structure. Vince has never been made to look like a hoe by any of his employees because they know who the boss is, well before this you can’t say to me Tony is respected by any of these guys and allowing the elite to have him by the balls doesn’t reflect nicely either. He refused to put experienced people in notable positions from the beginning and desperately needs to hire a respected booker. Tony Khan takes great pride in playing a promoter and is constantly blowing smoke up his own behind on social media to the delight of his followers he was bound to get exposed for being a chump, he gives too much control to his roster to and the inmates have taken over the asylum.

It is easier to listen to those who blow smoke up your behind then those who criticise you, Tony is another victim of his own deeds.

And I wouldn’t compare this to Bret/Shawn or any of that, completely different situation here. The enmity doesn’t run that deep and inevitably the situation was handled. All am saying is if you are starting a million dollar company you need to have a real plan in place and learn from those more experienced then you or at least have the foresight to avoid trusting nuggets like the elite.

Nobody has attacked the elite this bad or Page when he went into business for himself or the two faced media. Fickle fans who worshipped Punk is their new whipping boy, can you believe there is a crowd who actually thinks they are better off without him these so called AEW fans are some of the worst ever in wrestling and the dumbest for sure, the WWE lot keep reposting that HHH/Punk promo are not too far behind

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Another thing is, if Punk gets fired, his wrestling career will end. He won't be accepted in WWE. Impact or NJPW or any other promotion won't be able to give him the money he wants.

If The Elite are fired, they will go back to the indies and NJPW and being back to the life they were living before (I believe it would not be as comfortable as it is in AEW).

Trips was only interested in hiring them as a way to prevent AEW from launching. Now, he might only be interested in maybe Page. Tag team as we all know it, don't have much value in WWE.

Punk didn't have a wrestling career for the last 7 years before 2021. Don't think he was doing too badly. And as everyone has noted, he has plenty of money and does not need the wrestling business more than the wrestling business needs Punk.

The Elite's relationship with NJPW imploded before they came to AEW. And many allege that it was as a result of their unprofessionalism. The only reason infact that AEW was able to start a working relationship with NJPW was because of Jon Moxley. Who had been working on and off for New Japan ever since he left WWE. And he was the one who ended up being the intermediary between Tony and NJPW.

So my guess would be that it will be pretty hard for The Elite to just swallow their pride and go to work for New Japan again, after "everything they have built here", or so they would claim atleast. And even if WWE somehow pick them up, it will be for the wrong reasons i.e. to stick it to Khan. And not because H wants them.

 

[shaz619]

Seems far-fetched imo. Why would they pull a worked shoot after they just delivered on the MJF storyline after 3 months and completely overshadow it? They could still turn it into one. But question is will Punk be willing to do business with the Bucks? I highly doubt it. With Page, I am almost certain he will never do business with. With Omega, I don't think he has that much of an issue because he didn't mention Omega in the presser and it is reported that he and Omega had a discussion much later after the fight...that wasn't fruitful, but the fact that they had one still tells you that he doesn't have the same feelings towards him that does against the Bucks.

It is but that’s precisely why I’d feel it would work in such a scenario and remember MJF can still benefit from all this, Dynamite this week will be watched by more people. He’d never work with Page, but if they somehow get them to agree, it may break their PPV buys record or even a match between Punk and Omega which as you said is more likely, I don’t want to see the horrible trio matches which have been losing 200k viewers each week

 

[shaz619]

Another thing is, if Punk gets fired, his wrestling career will end. He won't be accepted in WWE. Impact or NJPW or any other promotion won't be able to give him the money he wants.

If The Elite are fired, they will go back to the indies and NJPW and being back to the life they were living before (I believe it would not be as comfortable as it is in AEW).

Trips was only interested in hiring them as a way to prevent AEW from launching. Now, he might only be interested in maybe Page. Tag team as we all know it, don't have much value in WWE.

NJPW, why would they not accept him? it’s a place with more order and no children.

In a bizarre way WWE’s structure is more appropriate for a jaded Punk fed up with backstage bickering, but unlikely that one

Thing is, Punk doesn’t need wrestling, it needs him

 

[shaz619]

KO tweeted a pic with Austin main-eventing Mnaia, which many see as a dig aimed at Punk.

Pathetic if true. That fat nut will never be the star Punk is.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

KO tweeted a pic with Austin main-eventing Mnaia, which many see as a dig aimed at Punk.

Brings me back to the point that if a few people have a problem with you, it's probably due to personal differences or jealousy. But if half the world has problem with you, there is definitely a problem with you.

Regarding Bucks, they were handed too much on their plate than they deserved or were used to, and they took it like hungry hounds. Not knowing what to do with so much power and only showed their true signs.

 

[shaz619]

There have been murmurs of a Punk turn, him raging as the heel against the authority which dweebs bizarrely worship could be an interesting angle

 

[shaz619]

Brings me back to the point that if a few people have a problem with you, it's probably due to personal differences or jealousy. But if half the world has problem with you, there is definitely a problem with you.

Regarding Bucks, they were handed too much on their plate than they deserved or were used to, and they took it like hungry hounds. Not knowing what to do with so much power and only showed their true signs.

All these cowards are coming out the woods to kick a man when he’s down and being attacked by everyone

 

[BunnyRabbit]

NJPW, why would they not accept him? it’s a place with more order and no children.

In a bizarre way WWE’s structure is more appropriate for a jaded Punk fed up with backstage bickering, but unlikely that one

Thing is, Punk doesn’t need wrestling, it needs him

Well Punk doesn't seem like a guy who would like to travel or even settle in Japan for a considerable time period. Plus they won't offer as much money as Punk wants.

I disagree with the point that wrestling needs punk. He's 44 now. Has only 3-4 years at max. Even Cena is gone and wrestling is doing fine without him.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

There have been murmurs of a Punk turn, him raging as the heel against the authority which dweebs bizarrely worship could be an interesting angle

I've always liked Punk as a heel better. He can really make stinging remarks to everyone on screen as a heel which is quite enjoyable.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Brings me back to the point that if a few people have a problem with you, it's probably due to personal differences or jealousy. But if half the world has problem with you, there is definitely a problem with you.

Regarding Bucks, they were handed too much on their plate than they deserved or were used to, and they took it like hungry hounds. Not knowing what to do with so much power and only showed their true signs.

I don't think life is ever that black and white. Things tend to be a little more complex than that, Fact is KO is old friends with the Bucks and is clearly siding with them because he are his friends.

 

[shaz619]

Well Punk doesn't seem like a guy who would like to travel or even settle in Japan for a considerable time period. Plus they won't offer as much money as Punk wants.

I disagree with the point that wrestling needs punk. He's 44 now. Has only 3-4 years at max. Even Cena is gone and wrestling is doing fine without him.

Well he could still end up there on a shorter term deal, Jericho done a record crowd at the Dome, Punk would bump up their product so what they pay him, they will make more.

Wrestling is hollow without a guy like Punk, sure it will survive, we have plenty of dweebs who watch this crap and enjoy gymnastics and mediocre promos

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Well Punk doesn't seem like a guy who would like to travel or even settle in Japan for a considerable time period. Plus they won't offer as much money as Punk wants.

I disagree with the point that wrestling needs punk. He's 44 now. Has only 3-4 years at max. Even Cena is gone and wrestling is doing fine without him.

It's not about his age but the work he is doing. As shaz and I have both noted numerous times over the last year. The kind of promos he is cutting, the kind of matches he is wrestling, the kind of stories he is telling in the ring and the kind of programs he has been involved in are unlike anything anyone is doing in pro-wrestling right now, or is even capable of.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Have you checked out JC’s video’s on YT? they may change some of your views on this.

I have absolute zero sympathy for Khan because firstly, I highly highly doubt this is the first time he is hearing about the issues Punk raised, the elite are always at the centre of every problem backstage, they are bullies and overly believe their own hype, those most untalented bunch to have such huge ego’s, we don’t know half of the stuff they be doing backstage and much of their antics in their career are not even public knowledge and to spread lies to the media was bound to get a response, but my point is Khan had many opportunities to deal with the so called EVP’s and the toxic environment they have created, I don’t believe this is the first time Tony has become aware of the issues Punk raised. If Tony dealt with this much earlier, long before this situation, it may have been avoided, am going back to when Cody was there and the number of issues the elite have been causing since they have been with the company.

And the second reason I have no sympathy for him is this, it was a long night, Punk just had a hard fight, was bleeding and then had to sit with the media to listen to **, Punk isn’t new to these press conference situations but when you hold these late nigh after such a lengthy show, and you have not showered or anything or had time to collect yourself, things are going to be said, this isn’t the first time in history either. Plus biggest thing, Khan just sat there and let it go for what was it, 20-25 min? he didn’t think to give a nudge under the table or just politely end things, no one would have asked him to attack Punk or be confrontational, you know even a whisper or something could have put an end to proceedings

What I hate the most is the hypocritical smarks who fall at Punk’s feet are all on the attack now, some of them WWE lifers but mostly Kenny and Bucks fan who would defend them even if they were convicted rapists.

I get what you are saying it is overshadowing the PPV but somebody had to expose these guys and Punk was the perfect person to take the heat, people will love to hate him evidently. One thing is clear, Punk is arguably the biggest star in wrestling, coming out of this weekend all eyes on the champ

Makes a lot of sense now why Cody chose to leave AEW. When the news about Cody not renewing his contract surfaced, he got a lot of flak from the AEW lifers for being greedy or thinking way too highly of him. But now if you see it, Cody probably didn't want to be involved with the elite and their ** antics. And decided to walk away from that environment. Plus I am also guessing the news that Cody was "greedy and wanted Punk money" was leaked by the elite to the dirtsheets to create negativity around him. And Cody has always seemed the most honest and composed guy out of all Original All In guys and the only one who could be seen as a leader.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Well he could still end up there on a shorter term deal, Jericho done a record crowd at the Dome, Punk would bump up their product so what they pay him, they will make more.

Wrestling is hollow without a guy like Punk, sure it will survive, we have plenty of dweebs who watch this crap and enjoy gymnastics and mediocre promos

Hmmm let's see. Jericho went to NJPW to enhance his reputation and wanted to challenge himself. Jericho has always been an ambitious guy who likes challenges. Jericho didn't go to Japan for money clearly. Don't know if Punk has anything or want to to prove anything in Japan. Still an unlikely scenario.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It's not about his age but the work he is doing. As shaz and I have both noted numerous times over the last year. The kind of promos he is cutting, the kind of matches he is wrestling, the kind of stories he is telling in the ring and the kind of programs he has been involved in are unlike anything anyone is doing in pro-wrestling right now, or is even capable of.

Yes it's great but eventually time runs out on everyone. In a few years, he might not be able to tell stories in the ring. He will surely be great with promos and angles, but the matches (which for me is the ultimate thing that gets wrestling going) will start to suffer. Plus he doesn't really look in as good of a shape as the likes of Rey, Edge and even Jericho (till 2020) have maintained.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I don't think life is ever that black and white. Things tend to be a little more complex than that, Fact is KO is old friends with the Bucks and is clearly siding with them because he are his friends.

Yes may well be the case. But KO really has nothing to do with Punk. He came to WWE long after Punk was gone. He doesn't seem like a petty individual who goes after people for no reason. So don't know what's going on there.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes it's great but eventually time runs out on everyone. In a few years, he might not be able to tell stories in the ring. He will surely be great with promos and angles, but the matches (which for me is the ultimate thing that gets wrestling going) will start to suffer. Plus he doesn't really look in as good of a shape as the likes of Rey, Edge and even Jericho (till 2020) have maintained.

Who's to say, what kind of benefit Punk will provide AEW in 2 years? 2 years is a long time. No one ever said Punk was going to be around for another decade. And even with the matches, you cannot predict that. Dustin Rhodes is 53. And he can still go out there and work incredible matches. Ultimately a big part of wrestling is how you work. You don't have to do everything to work a great match. And Punk has many more years in the tank. Plus, with the kind of matches he has put on so far: the ones against MJF, the one against Kingston, the one against Mox this past week...I can't really say I am concerned.

You could make that argument but are you saying that Punk isn't in good shape? Because to me he looks almost exactly (physically) as he did in WWE.

Ultimately, its as simple as this, no one and I mean no one, in this business touches Punk on promos or is as big of a star as he is. Not Bryan, not Omega, not Moxley, not Roman, not McIntyre...not even Lesnar. And that's not something trivial. That's something major. And because the wrestling is about as irrelevant as it has ever been, the business needs Punk more than ever to make things interesting and make people feel something they haven't felt in God knows how long.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes may well be the case. But KO really has nothing to do with Punk. He came to WWE long after Punk was gone. He doesn't seem like a petty individual who goes after people for no reason. So don't know what's going on there.

This seems pretty petty to me. Don't get me wrong, I love KO. But you have to understand that he comes from the same background as the Bucks. Even more than ROH, PWG was one of the places where he made a name for himself. Esxpecially when Cornette sent him home for a year. He is very tight with the Bucks as well as Excalibur and Super Dragon (the guys who started PWG) and has come through that same rec center in Reseda. So this is hardly a surprising reaction from him in my opinion.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Punk didn't have a wrestling career for the last 7 years before 2021. Don't think he was doing too badly. And as everyone has noted, he has plenty of money and does not need the wrestling business more than the wrestling business needs Punk.

The Elite's relationship with NJPW imploded before they came to AEW. And many allege that it was as a result of their unprofessionalism. The only reason infact that AEW was able to start a working relationship with NJPW was because of Jon Moxley. Who had been working on and off for New Japan ever since he left WWE. And he was the one who ended up being the intermediary between Tony and NJPW.

So my guess would be that it will be pretty hard for The Elite to just swallow their pride and go to work for New Japan again, after "everything they have built here", or so they would claim atleast. And even if WWE somehow pick them up, it will be for the wrong reasons i.e. to stick it to Khan. And not because H wants them.

That is exactly what I said. If Punk leaves AEW, his wrestling career will be done. He was doing well in the 7 years he wasn't in the business. He would be in demand for being a color commentator and analyst etc on combat sports and stuff but his in ring career will be done because he won't need it.

I don't think The Elite would have any pride left when they have no real backup to fall back on. They clearly aren't the big stars they think they are, they WILL HAVE to find a job regardless of how much they dislike it because without wrestling, they would be bankrupt and don't have any other thing to fall back on.

Another thing I feel that Meltzer is definitely on payroll with AEW especially from maybe Elite's paycheck. He is always trying to make a positive news regarding the elite while ******** on everyone else. They've been leaking stuff to him to make a good image about them and Dave makes it appear as if they are the biggest draws in the world when in reality they are simply indie stars.

Hardyz can still at this stage draw thrice or more than Bucks would considering they are in their prime now. And for the so called stupid critics to compare the two is laughable.

I also find the likes of SRS and the so called british expert marks on Youtube like Wrestletalk, Whatculture, Cultaholic etc always trying to tell a narrative that makes their favorites look like some genious creatures. They simply know wrestling just as much as us regular fans do who have watched wrestling for 20 plus years.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

This seems pretty petty to me. Don't get me wrong, I love KO. But you have to understand that he comes from the same background as the Bucks. Even more than ROH, PWG was one of the places where he made a name for himself. Esxpecially when Cornette sent him home for a year. He is very tight with the Bucks as well as Excalibur and Super Dragon (the guys who started PWG) and has come through that same rec center in Reseda. So this is hardly a surprising reaction from him in my opinion.

Yes that's what I am saying. KO has never been reported to be a petty individual but his recent tweet seems like a contradiction. Maybe he just wasn't taking a dig at Punk. Like seriously I would post picture of my match with the GOAT Austin every week if i get the opportunity. We may be reading too much into a post.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Makes a lot of sense now why Cody chose to leave AEW. When the news about Cody not renewing his contract surfaced, he got a lot of flak from the AEW lifers for being greedy or thinking way too highly of him. But now if you see it, Cody probably didn't want to be involved with the elite and their ** antics. And decided to walk away from that environment. Plus I am also guessing the news that Cody was "greedy and wanted Punk money" was leaked by the elite to the dirtsheets to create negativity around him. And Cody has always seemed the most honest and composed guy out of all Original All In guys and the only one who could be seen as a leader.

His problems with The Elite were reported for a long time. And I am fairly certain who was at fault. Cody is much more of a diplomatic guy. Ironically enough, he was the only one out of those guys who carried himself like an actual EVP.

But as far the Cody wants Punk money bit is concerned, I don't think that was too far-fetched. Ofcourse I'm not saying that the Bucks didn't leak that because its entirely likely that they did, considering that's the kind of stuff they specialize in. But ultimately, if Tony wanted to keep Cody he could have just offered him more money. But I don't think Tony saw Cody as, as big of a star as Punk. Nor do I blame him for it.

Ultimately, Cody in WWE was just a much better fit. Even if you take out his issues with the Bucks/Omega, it felt like Cody spent too much time in AEW trying to prove some kind of a point to the fans that I don't even think he, himself fully grasped. Whether it was taking himself out of contention for the World title, wrestling 20 minute matches with obscure indie darlings/no name job guys on Dynamite, doing idiotic, tone-deaf promos, not turning heel...the list just goes on.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Who's to say, what kind of benefit Punk will provide AEW in 2 years? 2 years is a long time. No one ever said Punk was going to be around for another decade. And even with the matches, you cannot predict that. Dustin Rhodes is 53. And he can still go out there and work incredible matches. Ultimately a big part of wrestling is how you work. You don't have to do everything to work a great match. And Punk has many more years in the tank. Plus, with the kind of matches he has put on so far: the ones against MJF, the one against Kingston, the one against Mox this past week...I can't really say I am concerned.

You could make that argument but are you saying that Punk isn't in good shape? Because to me he looks almost exactly (physically) as he did in WWE.

Ultimately, its as simple as this, no one and I mean no one, in this business touches Punk on promos or is as big of a star as he is. Not Bryan, not Omega, not Moxley, not Roman, not McIntyre...not even Lesnar. And that's not something trivial. That's something major. And because the wrestling is about as irrelevant as it has ever been, the business needs Punk more than ever to make things interesting and make people feel something they haven't felt in God knows how long.

Not saying he is not in good shape but saying that he has never seemed like a fitness buff that the likes of Rey and Edge etc have been which has enabled them to remain as good as ever even when they are nearing 50. And remaining fit enough is key to being more agile and hold back the aging process.

If Punk goes, AEW will have lost the biggest draw they'd have had. After Punk, there is a vast gap and only Bryan comes close to being a draw that can fill the arenas. Mox is great as well but don't think he's as big as Bryan. So that's my top 3 in terms of drawing power in AEW.

I respectfully disagree. I think Lesnar is still the biggest star in the world. Lesnar is a much bigger draw than Punk. Punk may be more famous among the die hards but Lesnar is known by almost everyone from casuals to mainstream.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

His problems with The Elite were reported for a long time. And I am fairly certain who was at fault. Cody is much more of a diplomatic guy. Ironically enough, he was the only one out of those guys who carried himself like an actual EVP.

But as far the Cody wants Punk money bit is concerned, I don't think that was too far-fetched. Ofcourse I'm not saying that the Bucks didn't leak that because its entirely likely that they did, considering that's the kind of stuff they specialize in. But ultimately, if Tony wanted to keep Cody he could have just offered him more money. But I don't think Tony saw Cody as, as big of a star as Punk. Nor do I blame him for it.

Ultimately, Cody in WWE was just a much better fit. Even if you take out his issues with the Bucks/Omega, it felt like Cody spent too much time in AEW trying to prove some kind of a point to the fans that I don't even think he, himself fully grasped. Whether it was taking himself out of contention for the World title, wrestling 20 minute matches with obscure indie darlings/no name job guys on Dynamite, doing idiotic, tone-deaf promos, not turning heel...the list just goes on.

Yes Cody is a natural fit for WWE as he is into doing the promotion and side stuff WWE likes to do with their top stars.

I feel like WWE will make Cody a big star and turn him into a draw cause they are good and experienced at doing it. Cause admit it or not, WWE is the place where you become a legit draw. Without that, you'd be stuck at the level of the elite which isn't really a high enough ceiling IMO.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes that's what I am saying. KO has never been reported to be a petty individual but his recent tweet seems like a contradiction. Maybe he just wasn't taking a dig at Punk. Like seriously I would post picture of my match with the GOAT Austin every week if i get the opportunity. We may be reading too much into a post.

Nah I definitely feel like he was. Punk said numerous times that he wanted to main-event WrestleMania. I'm also entirely certain that KO knew this and he knew that just by posting this picture he could make his views on this matter clear without saying a word.

He did something similar last year too when his WWE contact was coming up. He tweeted the co-ordinates to Mount Rushmore, which was basically a reference to his PWG faction of the same name with Young Bucks and Adam Cole.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

His problems with The Elite were reported for a long time. And I am fairly certain who was at fault. Cody is much more of a diplomatic guy. Ironically enough, he was the only one out of those guys who carried himself like an actual EVP.

But as far the Cody wants Punk money bit is concerned, I don't think that was too far-fetched. Ofcourse I'm not saying that the Bucks didn't leak that because its entirely likely that they did, considering that's the kind of stuff they specialize in. But ultimately, if Tony wanted to keep Cody he could have just offered him more money. But I don't think Tony saw Cody as, as big of a star as Punk. Nor do I blame him for it.

Ultimately, Cody in WWE was just a much better fit. Even if you take out his issues with the Bucks/Omega, it felt like Cody spent too much time in AEW trying to prove some kind of a point to the fans that I don't even think he, himself fully grasped. Whether it was taking himself out of contention for the World title, wrestling 20 minute matches with obscure indie darlings/no name job guys on Dynamite, doing idiotic, tone-deaf promos, not turning heel...the list just goes on.

Well I had only stopped following dirtsheets and started to enjoy wrestling as a casual for what it is supposed to be, a light hearted program to get entertain and relax. And just a few weeks later, this sort of stuff has happened which made me go back to checking the reports lol.

I guess I'll just go back to stop following the leakers and so called journalists again and just enjoy the product whatever they are presenting to the audience now. With that, I feel like WWE has looked the most serene and calm it has in years. Good for light hearted fun time pass.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Nah I definitely feel like he was. Punk said numerous times that he wanted to main-event WrestleMania. I'm also entirely certain that KO knew this and he knew that just by posting this picture he could make his views on this matter clear without saying a word.

He did something similar last year too when his WWE contact was coming up. He tweeted the co-ordinates to Mount Rushmore, which was basically a reference to his PWG faction of the same name with Young Bucks and Adam Cole.

Yeah, even Orton posted a pic of a board saying Elite back when his contract was expiring as a ploy to negotiate a better deal. And we all know that Orton is a WWE lifer.

Well with that, I would say it's quite exhausting really to dwell into the backstage stuff and dirtsheets reporting. For someone who is getting older quite quickly, i need to divert my attention to the real life stuff that I have been taking lightly for quite long. I guess I'll be just a casual from now on and start grabbing the career opportunities I have been letting go because of my non serious nature. Lol what an epiphany from me at midnight.

Wish me luck guys. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] you too bro.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Not saying he is not in good shape but saying that he has never seemed like a fitness buff that the likes of Rey and Edge etc have been which has enabled them to remain as good as ever even when they are nearing 50. And remaining fit enough is key to being more agile and hold back the aging process.

If Punk goes, AEW will have lost the biggest draw they'd have had. After Punk, there is a vast gap and only Bryan comes close to being a draw that can fill the arenas. Mox is great as well but don't think he's as big as Bryan. So that's my top 3 in terms of drawing power in AEW.

I respectfully disagree. I think Lesnar is still the biggest star in the world. Lesnar is a much bigger draw than Punk. Punk may be more famous among the die hards but Lesnar is known by almost everyone from casuals to mainstream.

Being well-known and being a draw are two different things. Brock is a major attraction and people will always be interested in seeing a Brock Lesnar match. But his connection with the fans is zero. His promo ability is zero. He appears twice a year and then disappears for another year. Because he doesn't give two s**ts about this business or the fans. As far as drawing ability is concerned, honestly its hard to properly gauge any star's drawing ability in WWE these days beyond a handful of occasions like Austin legit drawing money for WrestleMania in Texas this year, because in most occasions the WWE brand sells itself, rather than the name on the marquee. If WWE didn't have Lesnar or Reigns on the marquee, they would still draw 60-80,000 people in a stadium.

With Punk you can very clearly see the impact he has made on AEW's business since coming in. In gate money, in ratings, in PPV buys. That to me is a draw. A guy who is the number one reason for making the needle move.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yeah, even Orton posted a pic of a board saying Elite back when his contract was expiring as a ploy to negotiate a better deal. And we all know that Orton is a WWE lifer.

Well with that, I would say it's quite exhausting really to dwell into the backstage stuff and dirtsheets reporting. For someone who is getting older quite quickly, i need to divert my attention to the real life stuff that I have been taking lightly for quite long. I guess I'll be just a casual from now on and start grabbing the career opportunities I have been letting go because of my non serious nature. Lol what an epiphany from me at midnight.

Wish me luck guys. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] you too bro.

Good luck bro. I hope you find success and get the best out of life. Will always be looking forward to hearing your views though. You are a valuable voice on this forum. Just like [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION].

And I take comfort in the fact that no matter how much we disagree, none of us will start a thread on the other and talk about what an empty-headed stupid f****g d****** the other person is, hahahha. Sorry, had to get that reference in. I thought it was the most memorable line from the entire presser.

In all seriousness though, best of luck to you.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Good luck bro. I hope you find success and get the best out of life. Will always be looking forward to hearing your views though. You are a valuable voice on this forum. Just like [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION].

And I take comfort in the fact that no matter how much we disagree, none of us will start a thread on the other and talk about what an empty-headed stupid f****g d****** the other person is, hahahha. Sorry, had to get that reference in. I thought it was the most memorable line from the entire presser.

In all seriousness though, best of luck to you.

Thanks bro.

That is actually what discussion means. Only immature people start dissing each other on something like wrestling. Like I find it similar to people arguing and bad mouthing each other over which character of GOT was more deserving and stuff.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Didn't even get to share my thoughts on All Out as a result of all this stuff that has overshadowed the PPV. And while I don't have the energy to share my thoughts on the entire PPV, I will share my thoughts on the things I loved most about it:

Casino Ladder Match. More of a set-up for what followed than an actual match. But I thought the manner in which this entire deal was executed was simply incredible. A damn shame that nobody is talking about it. But full props to Tony and MJF. This was brilliantly executed from start to finish...it made sense and I absolutely loved it.

The Acclaimed v Swerve in Our Glory. Unreal match. I don't think anyone expected this to be this good. Probably one of the greatest matches in AEW's history. A legit star-making moment for The Acclaimed, who have graduated to the next level. The crowd was so hot for them here and so deeply against Lee/Strickland that I think an audible should have been called on the finish. One of the highlights of the night and a match worth seeing just for the cRAZy crowd reaction that The Acclaimed got.

Moxley v Punk. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] you said it best when you called this an old-school pro-wrestling main-event. That's exactly what this was. And it was beautiful. This too would rank right up there with the very best AEW has ever had to offer. And in this case, it was actually the simplicity that made this such a success. Punk was expectedly brilliant as the babyface with some truly masterful selling. But massive props must be given to Mox as well who avoided some of his usual impulses, instead wrestled Punk's style of match (which was the right thing to do for this occasion) and still came off as a major star. Even when they went into the crowd it was Punk who did it, and it made sense because it was Punk fighting among his people, which is what this storyline has been about.

The perfect main-event and the aftermath was just brilliant. Absolutely loved it and hope we get to see the only match in wrestling that's worth anything: CM Punk vs. MJF.

 

[shaz619]

Yeah, even Orton posted a pic of a board saying Elite back when his contract was expiring as a ploy to negotiate a better deal. And we all know that Orton is a WWE lifer.

Well with that, I would say it's quite exhausting really to dwell into the backstage stuff and dirtsheets reporting. For someone who is getting older quite quickly, i need to divert my attention to the real life stuff that I have been taking lightly for quite long. I guess I'll be just a casual from now on and start grabbing the career opportunities I have been letting go because of my non serious nature. Lol what an epiphany from me at midnight.

Wish me luck guys. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] you too bro.

All the best bro, I use to have these epiphany’s quiet a bit to but now realise I will always be in a abusive relationship with wrestling never get bogged down by the real stuff but keep moving in a positive direction mate, you never lose if you don’t quit no matter the goal

 

[shaz619]

Good luck bro. I hope you find success and get the best out of life. Will always be looking forward to hearing your views though. You are a valuable voice on this forum. Just like [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION].

And I take comfort in the fact that no matter how much we disagree, none of us will start a thread on the other and talk about what an empty-headed stupid f****g d****** the other person is, hahahha. Sorry, had to get that reference in. I thought it was the most memorable line from the entire presser.

In all seriousness though, best of luck to you.

Haha am sure I’d fit that reference at times ) there are some toxic wrestling fans out there but the better ones tend to be the best among all fans. We all have some agreements and own unique takes, would make for a good podcast lmao

Ah that ref though was gold, all the while he munched on those amazing muffins, man I envy the unhealthy American food, it is the best of the best, hope to visit Chicago one day iA maybe try the deep dish pizza to

 

[shaz619]

Didn't even get to share my thoughts on All Out as a result of all this stuff that has overshadowed the PPV. And while I don't have the energy to share my thoughts on the entire PPV, I will share my thoughts on the things I loved most about it:

Casino Ladder Match. More of a set-up for what followed than an actual match. But I thought the manner in which this entire deal was executed was simply incredible. A damn shame that nobody is talking about it. But full props to Tony and MJF. This was brilliantly executed from start to finish...it made sense and I absolutely loved it.

The Acclaimed v Swerve in Our Glory. Unreal match. I don't think anyone expected this to be this good. Probably one of the greatest matches in AEW's history. A legit star-making moment for The Acclaimed, who have graduated to the next level. The crowd was so hot for them here and so deeply against Lee/Strickland that I think an audible should have been called on the finish. One of the highlights of the night and a match worth seeing just for the cRAZy crowd reaction that The Acclaimed got.

Moxley v Punk. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] you said it best when you called this an old-school pro-wrestling main-event. That's exactly what this was. And it was beautiful. This too would rank right up there with the very best AEW has ever had to offer. And in this case, it was actually the simplicity that made this such a success. Punk was expectedly brilliant as the babyface with some truly masterful selling. But massive props must be given to Mox as well who avoided some of his usual impulses, instead wrestled Punk's style of match (which was the right thing to do for this occasion) and still came off as a major star. Even when they went into the crowd it was Punk who did it, and it made sense because it was Punk fighting among his people, which is what this storyline has been about.

The perfect main-event and the aftermath was just brilliant. Absolutely loved it and hope we get to see the only match in wrestling that's worth anything: CM Punk vs. MJF.

Agree with your take, totally feel the same way and I was just thinking of the outstanding selling from Punk in the match just before I read your comment on that! it was a master class from him, Punk’s ring IQ is phenomenal and helping him produce some of the best work of his career, am not saying best ever because it would downplay some of his best performances when the physical tools were in prime shape but despite that, his work is right up there with the best in wrestling today, I struggle to see how he is “past it” or “washed up” if he is washed, the rest must be pure aids because there are very few authentic wrestlers in the world like Punk and he can throw a nice worked punch! Mox is his own worst enemy, he is a blessed all round performer who can work with any style and this was the output without him doing some of the none sense you mentioned. I think Punk’s heel turn is imminent but am going to be vastly disappointed to some extent because he has been special as a face, it’s not his fault wrestling fans are so fickle and even before the presser he was getting some mixed reactions for whatever reason, they always do this once they have their hero.

If we are looking at major baby faces who got over organically among RAW, SD, AEW and TNA in the last 5 years who crosses your mind?

Drew - Carried the strap in the friggin pandemic and fans **** on him
Punk - Fans starting to crap on him to after a year

AJ Styles may have been the only one who survived the fickle dweebs, he transitioned to a heel later but fans popped predominately for his face run

 

[shaz619]

Didn't even get to share my thoughts on All Out as a result of all this stuff that has overshadowed the PPV. And while I don't have the energy to share my thoughts on the entire PPV, I will share my thoughts on the things I loved most about it:

Casino Ladder Match. More of a set-up for what followed than an actual match. But I thought the manner in which this entire deal was executed was simply incredible. A damn shame that nobody is talking about it. But full props to Tony and MJF. This was brilliantly executed from start to finish...it made sense and I absolutely loved it.

The Acclaimed v Swerve in Our Glory. Unreal match. I don't think anyone expected this to be this good. Probably one of the greatest matches in AEW's history. A legit star-making moment for The Acclaimed, who have graduated to the next level. The crowd was so hot for them here and so deeply against Lee/Strickland that I think an audible should have been called on the finish. One of the highlights of the night and a match worth seeing just for the cRAZy crowd reaction that The Acclaimed got.

Moxley v Punk. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] you said it best when you called this an old-school pro-wrestling main-event. That's exactly what this was. And it was beautiful. This too would rank right up there with the very best AEW has ever had to offer. And in this case, it was actually the simplicity that made this such a success. Punk was expectedly brilliant as the babyface with some truly masterful selling. But massive props must be given to Mox as well who avoided some of his usual impulses, instead wrestled Punk's style of match (which was the right thing to do for this occasion) and still came off as a major star. Even when they went into the crowd it was Punk who did it, and it made sense because it was Punk fighting among his people, which is what this storyline has been about.

The perfect main-event and the aftermath was just brilliant. Absolutely loved it and hope we get to see the only match in wrestling that's worth anything: CM Punk vs. MJF.

I didn’t watch the other matches and while I don’t fully understand the casino ladder match I get it is similar to MITB and deduced MJF won it to get the shot in mysterious circumstances

I wanted to see Jericho/Bryan, was that any good? not sure if anything else on the PPV was must see, I knew Punk/Mox would be

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I didn’t watch the other matches and while I don’t fully understand the casino ladder match I get it is similar to MITB and deduced MJF won it to get the shot in mysterious circumstances

I wanted to see Jericho/Bryan, was that any good? not sure if anything else on the PPV was must see, I knew Punk/Mox would be

It was a good match. A bit slow. But I was surprised how well Jericho was able to work. Yeah Bryan is a magician who can make anyone look good but Jericho didn't nearly get as blown up as he often does even though they did 22+ minutes. What hurt this match though was the booking, which was just baffling to me. Jericho going over made no sense to me considering this match got booked because Jericho (in kayfabe) concussed Bryan and tried to put him out of commission.

Bryan should get his win next week though. So I guess its alright. But it made no sense to me while watching the PPV.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I didn’t watch the other matches and while I don’t fully understand the casino ladder match I get it is similar to MITB and deduced MJF won it to get the shot in mysterious circumstances

I wanted to see Jericho/Bryan, was that any good? not sure if anything else on the PPV was must see, I knew Punk/Mox would be

They basically connected the Stokely Hathaway recruiting all those guys bit with MJF and tried to insinuate MJF was behind it all. Stokely's cronies basically beat up all the participants and secured the poker chip for him. With the field cleared MJF came out in a black garb with that mask you saw at the end to grab the poker chip. The Rolling Stone's 'Sympathy for the Devil' was playing in the background. And all in all, it was simply a brilliant moment that know seems like it took place ages ago.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] What's your reading of the current situation? Punk and The Elite have been stripped of their belts and removed from the opening. Elite are also been reportedly suspended but nothing on Punk has been reported so far. What do you reckon is the pathway going forward? Surely Punk is coming back right?

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] What's your reading of the current situation? Punk and The Elite have been stripped of their belts and removed from the opening. Elite are also been reportedly suspended but nothing on Punk has been reported so far. What do you reckon is the pathway going forward? Surely Punk is coming back right?

To be honest with you I don’t like The Elite but to me it is an absolute travesty that all these guys get penalised and Adam Dumb Phuck Page gets away scot free, where is the justice in that? he should have been punished the moment he went into business for himself, do you remember Batista blading in that RAW cage match with Jericho during the PG era and being fined 500k? Page instigated the whole thing.

If I was Khan, I’d introduce some new policies and disciplinary action for such violations.

I’d hire a respected booker to run the show, make Regal head of talent relations and creative; his word would be gospel, any problems thank you very much and goodbye. Arn could be his deputy. This would alleviate Khan’s duties and allow more experienced and respected individuals to take up the role he wanted to play.

The Elite would be stripped of EVP status and this role would be eliminated.

I’d let things cool over and plan a worked shoot program, Punk will obviously have to be heel and I’d book a program between him and Omega which would be best for business.

I don’t think anyone should get fired between The Elite and Punk, it makes sense for Khan to suspend them even if it’s informal / not public knowledge or he’d not have a foot to stand on. Khan needs to make The Elite understand their position in the company and get them under control.

If anyone should get punished severely it’s Page, he adds nothing to the company. I would fire his *** personally and make him the scapegoat

 

[shaz619]

It was a good match. A bit slow. But I was surprised how well Jericho was able to work. Yeah Bryan is a magician who can make anyone look good but Jericho didn't nearly get as blown up as he often does even though they did 22+ minutes. What hurt this match though was the booking, which was just baffling to me. Jericho going over made no sense to me considering this match got booked because Jericho (in kayfabe) concussed Bryan and tried to put him out of commission.

Bryan should get his win next week though. So I guess its alright. But it made no sense to me while watching the PPV.

Jericho is well capable of such matches he just chooses not to, he understands the fans he is wrestling for and had taken it too far with the tom foolery. Jericho is in better shape then he has been in for a while, he needs to use his incredible ring generalship and stop doing stupid sh!t the sports entertainer stuff I get brings good heat but don’t do silly gimmick matches constantly. He has shown great leadership these past few days

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Jericho is well capable of such matches he just chooses not to, he understands the fans he is wrestling for and had taken it too far with the tom foolery. Jericho is in better shape then he has been in for a while, he needs to use his incredible ring generalship and stop doing stupid sh!t the sports entertainer stuff I get brings good heat but don’t do silly gimmick matches constantly. He has shown great leadership these past few days

Agree completely. He's capable of so much more. But its nice to see that he hasn't completely gone over the hill. If anything, this entire situation has shown me that Jericho is maybe one of the better and less toxic people in the dressing room.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

To be honest with you I don’t like The Elite but to me it is an absolute travesty that all these guys get penalised and Adam Dumb Phuck Page gets away scot free, where is the justice in that? he should have been punished the moment he went into business for himself, do you remember Batista blading in that RAW cage match with Jericho during the PG era and being fined 500k? Page instigated the whole thing.

If I was Khan, I’d introduce some new policies and disciplinary action for such violations.

I’d hire a respected booker to run the show, make Regal head of talent relations and creative; his word would be gospel, any problems thank you very much and goodbye. Arn could be his deputy. This would alleviate Khan’s duties and allow more experienced and respected individuals to take up the role he wanted to play.

The Elite would be stripped of EVP status and this role would be eliminated.

I’d let things cool over and plan a worked shoot program, Punk will obviously have to be heel and I’d book a program between him and Omega which would be best for business.

I don’t think anyone should get fired between The Elite and Punk, it makes sense for Khan to suspend them even if it’s informal / not public knowledge or he’d not have a foot to stand on. Khan needs to make The Elite understand their position in the company and get them under control.

If anyone should get punished severely it’s Page, he adds nothing to the company. I would fire his *** personally and make him the scapegoat

Well, the latest news is even more depressing. Punk is apparently injured again and set to be out for 6-8 months. It's like this company is cursed or something...I just don't get it. Whenever you feel like, AEW has the momentum...they have the roster...they have guys doing compelling television, something bad happens. At this point its getting hard to explain. And while you may not agree with my sentiment, I feel rally bad for Tony.

Yeah, it absolutely p***es me off that, that empty-headed numbskull, who has really been the cause of all this, is just having a match on Dynamite. Even worse, are the people who are defending him. "He was vague when he went into business for himself"...which is the most infuriating take I have heard yet. Who effing cares if he was "vague". I've made it clear that I do not support Punk's tirade because that was not the time and place to do that. But let's make no mistake whatsoever regarding who is the cause of all that.

That's an interesting take. Personally, I don't see a future where Punk works with the Bucks or Page. Him working with Omega could happen. But there are a number of things to consider here, is Punk angry enough to walk over the idea that he can't even be in the same company as the Bucks and Page? I mean he shouldn't be considering he was okay with being in the same company as Cabana. What's Punk's relationship with Omega? What if Punk himself is just depressed of the constant injuries and feels he does not have another long rehab and comeback in him?

Then ofcourse there is also the pending investigation that has not been concluded yet. What happens if one party is proclaimed guilty there? And what happens if one of the sides Punk or Bucks sues the other?

These are all questions I would like answered. Although I feel like they won't be answered anytime soon.

On the bright side, the time may have finally come for MJF to become the World Champion. But besides MJF, Danielson and Mox absolutely need to be figured into the main-event scene going forward. Because without Punk and even Omega, you need your three other biggest stars to be featured at the top. I forgot to mention Jericho among the biggest stars they have. He too has to be featured on a consistent basis. Because AEW needs them now more than ever.

MJF v Mox is money. This feud will be far better than it was 2 years ago. That looks like the direction right now for Full Gear with Mox v Danielson for the NY show looking very likely. And that's exactly how it should be.

 

[shaz619]

Well, the latest news is even more depressing. Punk is apparently injured again and set to be out for 6-8 months. It's like this company is cursed or something...I just don't get it. Whenever you feel like, AEW has the momentum...they have the roster...they have guys doing compelling television, something bad happens. At this point its getting hard to explain. And while you may not agree with my sentiment, I feel rally bad for Tony.

Yeah, it absolutely p***es me off that, that empty-headed numbskull, who has really been the cause of all this, is just having a match on Dynamite. Even worse, are the people who are defending him. "He was vague when he went into business for himself"...which is the most infuriating take I have heard yet. Who effing cares if he was "vague". I've made it clear that I do not support Punk's tirade because that was not the time and place to do that. But let's make no mistake whatsoever regarding who is the cause of all that.

That's an interesting take. Personally, I don't see a future where Punk works with the Bucks or Page. Him working with Omega could happen. But there are a number of things to consider here, is Punk angry enough to walk over the idea that he can't even be in the same company as the Bucks and Page? I mean he shouldn't be considering he was okay with being in the same company as Cabana. What's Punk's relationship with Omega? What if Punk himself is just depressed of the constant injuries and feels he does not have another long rehab and comeback in him?

Then ofcourse there is also the pending investigation that has not been concluded yet. What happens if one party is proclaimed guilty there? And what happens if one of the sides Punk or Bucks sues the other?

These are all questions I would like answered. Although I feel like they won't be answered anytime soon.

On the bright side, the time may have finally come for MJF to become the World Champion. But besides MJF, Danielson and Mox absolutely need to be figured into the main-event scene going forward. Because without Punk and even Omega, you need your three other biggest stars to be featured at the top. I forgot to mention Jericho among the biggest stars they have. He too has to be featured on a consistent basis. Because AEW needs them now more than ever.

MJF v Mox is money. This feud will be far better than it was 2 years ago. That looks like the direction right now for Full Gear with Mox v Danielson for the NY show looking very likely. And that's exactly how it should be.

That is concerning and you make a good point on if Punk still wants this because it rings a bell, he did an interview I believe where he stated his recent rehab was a bit depressing. If Punk is motivated enough to come back, I think 6-8 months would be a blessing in a weird way and Khan could spin it as some kind of back dated suspension to if he wanted to go that way. I’d like to think Punk could make peace with Omega/Bucks but only if Khan strips them of their EVP status and they don’t go to Uncle Dave with their lies, even if you criticise Punk at least he is open about his issues and doesn’t hide behind the deplorable media.

After what has happened, the situation backstage, Punk’s injury and the backlash he receives daily from so called wrestling fans, it’s not far fetched to say we may have seen his final match. Punk isn’t perfect but the toxic fans I’ve seen in recent days and way media have attacked him, they don’t deserve him and at his age when you just want to go about your way, make things better and have fun, is it really worth it? he doesn’t need the money either. Things could get messy legally as you say as well.

Dave’s comments have been pathetic in the aftermath, going as far as to suggest Adam Page is a bigger star then Punk and a legit draw for the company and how Punk’s tirade was all planned and what not, he even stated that Punk divided the locker room with his old school advices which not every talent wanted to take LOL he is a mascot for the elite and these guys, he didn’t have the balls to answer Punk when he was in front of him.

I think after what happened Dynamite should have been more explosive and had something shocking occur. In my view the company should now have Bryan carry the strap as a baby face to get MJF over as a champion, it’s a shame they had Bryan job to Garcia, but it may well be Mox and I don’t think he has done any embarrassing jobs.

I would have booked Dynamite to crown a new champion, it could have been a battle royal of some kind even not even a tournament. I’d have either Mox or Bryan win the belt and then the winner would need to face MJF in the main event, I’d then have MJF squash the champion, something like this would have been a fitting follow up to the weekends drama

 

[shaz619]

This Mox promo on Dynamite this week was a bit crap.

First he buried replica AEW world title merchandise sales and then he went onto say I was meant to be on vacation.

Situation is not ideal but unprofessionalism is pathetic to say the least, even after last weekend’s events this guy has no sense and seemingly went off script and did more damage in the process.

He isn’t worthy of being a face champion and I think right now Khan needs stability and a stand up professional. I don’t know what Bryan’s injury situation is but even in the interim he would make a much better champion.

It’s a shame they don’t have a stand up world class professional to carry the strap as a face:

Mox - Too unhinged and unpredictable character

Bryan - Concussion issues and risks pushing himself to the limit

Page - Empty headed dumb phuck

Ricky Starks needs to be fast tracked and Wardlow maybe it’s not his time yet.

They need a name to carry the strap though and I feel looking at the above issues that leaves us with one option:

Cesaro - Great character and personality, popular with the fans and a great worker. He isn’t going to do numbers like the others but the next best option. If am Khan, I’d first get of the coke and then look for someone reliable who doesn’t have a chip on their shoulders, sure this comes with the territory but right now he can do with less drama and being exposed on national television by idiots like Mox and Page

 

[Markhor]

The Queen is the best worker of all time. She kept kayfabe longer than the Undertaker )

 

[shaz619]

The Queen is the best worker of all time. She kept kayfabe longer than the Undertaker )

That’s a good one lmao

Have you seen this:

https://twitter.com/akzyy/status/1567864200952745985?s=46&t=GxtbrMrDlNyvIUm-zK9uPA

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That is concerning and you make a good point on if Punk still wants this because it rings a bell, he did an interview I believe where he stated his recent rehab was a bit depressing. If Punk is motivated enough to come back, I think 6-8 months would be a blessing in a weird way and Khan could spin it as some kind of back dated suspension to if he wanted to go that way. I’d like to think Punk could make peace with Omega/Bucks but only if Khan strips them of their EVP status and they don’t go to Uncle Dave with their lies, even if you criticise Punk at least he is open about his issues and doesn’t hide behind the deplorable media.

After what has happened, the situation backstage, Punk’s injury and the backlash he receives daily from so called wrestling fans, it’s not far fetched to say we may have seen his final match. Punk isn’t perfect but the toxic fans I’ve seen in recent days and way media have attacked him, they don’t deserve him and at his age when you just want to go about your way, make things better and have fun, is it really worth it? he doesn’t need the money either. Things could get messy legally as you say as well.

Dave’s comments have been pathetic in the aftermath, going as far as to suggest Adam Page is a bigger star then Punk and a legit draw for the company and how Punk’s tirade was all planned and what not, he even stated that Punk divided the locker room with his old school advices which not every talent wanted to take LOL he is a mascot for the elite and these guys, he didn’t have the balls to answer Punk when he was in front of him.

I think after what happened Dynamite should have been more explosive and had something shocking occur. In my view the company should now have Bryan carry the strap as a baby face to get MJF over as a champion, it’s a shame they had Bryan job to Garcia, but it may well be Mox and I don’t think he has done any embarrassing jobs.

I would have booked Dynamite to crown a new champion, it could have been a battle royal of some kind even not even a tournament. I’d have either Mox or Bryan win the belt and then the winner would need to face MJF in the main event, I’d then have MJF squash the champion, something like this would have been a fitting follow up to the weekends drama

It makes me laugh that Dave still pretends to be an "unbiased journalist". This guy is a pathetic bottom-feeder to the core. A real stain on the business in this day and age...trying to do whatever he can to protect his friends. He actually wrote that Punk was going around preaching "old school philosophies". So what, he was telling guys not to go out there and take unnecessary bumps? To actually sell in their matches? To not be a spot-monkey? Are those old-school philosophies? Because if so, he seems like one of the few people in that locker-room with a working brain.

I agree. The kind of nonsense Meltzer has spouted just shows what a one-sided p***k he is. Keep in mind, that there is an independent investigation going on where the witnesses have been specifically told not to leak s**t to outside people. So the fact that all this (very clearly biased) hearsay reached Dave tells you volumes about the character of the person who leaked it.

Ofcourse he didn't. He doesn't have the balls to say anything of this to Punk's face. He is only interested in telling one side of the story. He can be an apologist for his friends all day long though and bestow as many of his golden stars as he wants on them. At the end of the day he knows and everyone else knows who the actual draw in AEW is. And its not the empty-headed DF or the Hardy Boys cosplayers.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That is concerning and you make a good point on if Punk still wants this because it rings a bell, he did an interview I believe where he stated his recent rehab was a bit depressing. If Punk is motivated enough to come back, I think 6-8 months would be a blessing in a weird way and Khan could spin it as some kind of back dated suspension to if he wanted to go that way. I’d like to think Punk could make peace with Omega/Bucks but only if Khan strips them of their EVP status and they don’t go to Uncle Dave with their lies, even if you criticise Punk at least he is open about his issues and doesn’t hide behind the deplorable media.

After what has happened, the situation backstage, Punk’s injury and the backlash he receives daily from so called wrestling fans, it’s not far fetched to say we may have seen his final match. Punk isn’t perfect but the toxic fans I’ve seen in recent days and way media have attacked him, they don’t deserve him and at his age when you just want to go about your way, make things better and have fun, is it really worth it? he doesn’t need the money either. Things could get messy legally as you say as well.

Dave’s comments have been pathetic in the aftermath, going as far as to suggest Adam Page is a bigger star then Punk and a legit draw for the company and how Punk’s tirade was all planned and what not, he even stated that Punk divided the locker room with his old school advices which not every talent wanted to take LOL he is a mascot for the elite and these guys, he didn’t have the balls to answer Punk when he was in front of him.

I think after what happened Dynamite should have been more explosive and had something shocking occur. In my view the company should now have Bryan carry the strap as a baby face to get MJF over as a champion, it’s a shame they had Bryan job to Garcia, but it may well be Mox and I don’t think he has done any embarrassing jobs.

I would have booked Dynamite to crown a new champion, it could have been a battle royal of some kind even not even a tournament. I’d have either Mox or Bryan win the belt and then the winner would need to face MJF in the main event, I’d then have MJF squash the champion, something like this would have been a fitting follow up to the weekends drama

Not seen Dynamite yet. Will get back with my thoughts after I see it tonight.

 

[sweep_shot]

Is it just me or did AEW get kind of stale lately?

It seems like they need a bit of spice.

 

[shaz619]

Is it just me or did AEW get kind of stale lately?

It seems like they need a bit of spice.

It seems like the episodes start out hot and then they lose a bunch of viewers.

In the recent past it was due to the friends hogging the main event scene and cosplaying video game characters during 6-man tags or trio’s or whatever you want to call it.

They also seem to push bland characters and lack a long term plan. While those who have a much higher ceiling, either get lost in the shuffle or experience booking problems

The saving grace was Punk and he is not there anymore, not sure if they will ever see him again after all the abuse

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Is it just me or did AEW get kind of stale lately?

It seems like they need a bit of spice.

Unfortunately it seems all the spice in AEW seems to happen behind-the-scenes. Maybe they should get a camera-crew to film a 10 part docuseries. I bet that would be very spicy.

 

[sweep_shot]

Unfortunately it seems all the spice in AEW seems to happen behind-the-scenes. Maybe they should get a camera-crew to film a 10 part docuseries. I bet that would be very spicy.

Yeah. I think they should do that (recording the stuffs behind the scenes). Definitely sounds more fun than their actual shows.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This Mox promo on Dynamite this week was a bit crap.

First he buried replica AEW world title merchandise sales and then he went onto say I was meant to be on vacation.

Situation is not ideal but unprofessionalism is pathetic to say the least, even after last weekend’s events this guy has no sense and seemingly went off script and did more damage in the process.

He isn’t worthy of being a face champion and I think right now Khan needs stability and a stand up professional. I don’t know what Bryan’s injury situation is but even in the interim he would make a much better champion.

It’s a shame they don’t have a stand up world class professional to carry the strap as a face:

Mox - Too unhinged and unpredictable character

Bryan - Concussion issues and risks pushing himself to the limit

Page - Empty headed dumb phuck

Ricky Starks needs to be fast tracked and Wardlow maybe it’s not his time yet.

They need a name to carry the strap though and I feel looking at the above issues that leaves us with one option:

Cesaro - Great character and personality, popular with the fans and a great worker. He isn’t going to do numbers like the others but the next best option. If am Khan, I’d first get of the coke and then look for someone reliable who doesn’t have a chip on their shoulders, sure this comes with the territory but right now he can do with less drama and being exposed on national television by idiots like Mox and Page

The Mox promo was not great but it was not bad either. Same for MJF's promo. At the end of the day, they were all making the best of a bad situation. And I think all things considered they put on a fairly decent show with some good wrestling and okay promos.

The direction to me seems like Mox v Bryan at their NY Stadium Show. I would put Mox over and then put him in a program with MJF leading to the Full Gear PPV. Whether you like him or not, Mox right now is probably the most over babyface in this company. There's some history with him and MJF and a potentially compelling money-drawing program there if you do it right. There is absolutely no question that MJF has to win and then have a really long reign as World Champion and after that Moxley can take his vacation.

As for the others:

Bryan and Jericho: both need to be featured at the top going forward. Putting them in programs with each other though seems counter-productive to me.

Wardlow: Needs more of that Goldberg booking i.e. coming out and smashing guys in 2-5 minutes. Also needs to have a really long reign as TNT Champion.

Ricky Starks: Agree wholeheartedly. Needs to be fast-tracked to the top. Needs to be in programs with top-level talent. If though, someone needs to explain why he was squashed by Hobbs in under 5 minutes, flat in the middle of the ring?

Adam Page: Needs to be MJF's first victim.

Cesaro: Seems like he is going to be having great matches on TV for now for the ROH Championship. But sooner or later, I would hope that they do more with him. Because he is capable of far bigger and better things.

Tag Team Division: Amazing to see how well The Acclaimed have got over. I don't see how they don't win the tag titles at the NY show, which is in their hometown. That said, Swerve and Lee have major potential as a heel tag team too. I'd do a quick title change at the NY show and then put the titles back on Swerve and Lee a little bit after and build to a program between FTR and Swerve/Lee for the next PPV.

Eddie Kingston: Do more with him.

Miro: Do more with him.

Samoa Joe: Do MORE with him.

Adam Cole: Keep him as far away from the Reseda crowd as humanly possible.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Garcia v Yuta on Dynamite this week was not good but I think even more than that, it showed precisely what these guys are missing and why they probably need to learn a bit more before being pushed in major positions in this company. Their biggest drawback is that when left to their own devices, they teleport back to a rec. center on the indies that draws 50 people on a good weekend. Here these two just descended into this neverending cascade of indulgent maneuvers. Instead of one rollover, there were fifty rollovers. Instead of both guys doing a suplex each, both guys did 50 suplexes each. Maybe it's just me but this style of wrestling just screams: low-rent, minor league indie mentality, to me. Where everything has to be overdone to the nth degree just to prove a point...a moronic one at that! And I see it way too often when two young guys are allowed to go out there and have a match of their choice.

On the indies I can understand doing this kind of s***t to get the attention of those 50 people who clearly had nothing better to do on their weekend. But for goodness sake this isn't the indies. I can't believe Tony let's these guys go out there and have a match like this on the main event of his flagship show. The crowd got exhausted and bored after a certain point even though it was Garcia's hometown and I can't say I blame them. Because I was exhausted and bored too!

And to be perfectly honest, I am bored out of my mind of Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta too. They've been given alot of spotlight on this show but all they've managed to come across is a bunch of charisma vaccumms with little to no personality, who can sometimes have good matches. I would give an arm and leg to see their TV time go to Miro or Eddie Kingston.

 

[shaz619]

The Mox promo was not great but it was not bad either. Same for MJF's promo. At the end of the day, they were all making the best of a bad situation. And I think all things considered they put on a fairly decent show with some good wrestling and okay promos.

The direction to me seems like Mox v Bryan at their NY Stadium Show. I would put Mox over and then put him in a program with MJF leading to the Full Gear PPV. Whether you like him or not, Mox right now is probably the most over babyface in this company. There's some history with him and MJF and a potentially compelling money-drawing program there if you do it right. There is absolutely no question that MJF has to win and then have a really long reign as World Champion and after that Moxley can take his vacation.

As for the others:

Bryan and Jericho: both need to be featured at the top going forward. Putting them in programs with each other though seems counter-productive to me.

Wardlow: Needs more of that Goldberg booking i.e. coming out and smashing guys in 2-5 minutes. Also needs to have a really long reign as TNT Champion.

Ricky Starks: Agree wholeheartedly. Needs to be fast-tracked to the top. Needs to be in programs with top-level talent. If though, someone needs to explain why he was squashed by Hobbs in under 5 minutes, flat in the middle of the ring?

Adam Page: Needs to be MJF's first victim.

Cesaro: Seems like he is going to be having great matches on TV for now for the ROH Championship. But sooner or later, I would hope that they do more with him. Because he is capable of far bigger and better things.

Tag Team Division: Amazing to see how well The Acclaimed have got over. I don't see how they don't win the tag titles at the NY show, which is in their hometown. That said, Swerve and Lee have major potential as a heel tag team too. I'd do a quick title change at the NY show and then put the titles back on Swerve and Lee a little bit after and build to a program between FTR and Swerve/Lee for the next PPV.

Eddie Kingston: Do more with him.

Miro: Do more with him.

Samoa Joe: Do MORE with him.

Adam Cole: Keep him as far away from the Reseda crowd as humanly possible.

Thing is am not even like critiquing Mox’s promo on whether it is good or bad but this guy is a baby face right now and maybe he was given autonomy or maybe not, how does I should have been on vacation add anything to the company especially after last weekends events? he is unnecessarily breaking kayfabe and suggesting he much rather be elsewhere then perform for the fans, now don’t get me wrong you know how I feel about the AEW audience but this is a baby face who is meant to be a stand up guy who should be covering for the debacle, but instead he is crying on national TV, the crowd kinda cringed at that line to like erm what? These guys got no respect for the promoter this is why Khan needs to hire a booker so talent stop taking liberties. Mox isn’t the first guy to have to work when plans change and the company have been too accommodating towards him as is. He is a name and the only reason Khan must be allowing him to exploit the situation but there are better options and if the plan is to use him to put over MJF I hope we can fast track that because Mox isn’t the champion the company needs as a face, I’ve disliked his work in AEW strongly but I will say his ring work and promo and the way he likes to do things will come off better if he is a heel.

Agree on Bryan/Jericho but this probably just going to be another TV match right? wait, they may be in a feud. I think given the heat and perception from the casual smarks on Jericho’s ring work as of late, I am fine with him getting his mojo back through Bryan.

The MJF stuff should have turned out different but he is the champion the company desperately need

 

[shaz619]

Garcia v Yuta on Dynamite this week was not good but I think even more than that, it showed precisely what these guys are missing and why they probably need to learn a bit more before being pushed in major positions in this company. Their biggest drawback is that when left to their own devices, they teleport back to a rec. center on the indies that draws 50 people on a good weekend. Here these two just descended into this neverending cascade of indulgent maneuvers. Instead of one rollover, there were fifty rollovers. Instead of both guys doing a suplex each, both guys did 50 suplexes each. Maybe it's just me but this style of wrestling just screams: low-rent, minor league indie mentality, to me. Where everything has to be overdone to the nth degree just to prove a point...a moronic one at that! And I see it way too often when two young guys are allowed to go out there and have a match of their choice.

On the indies I can understand doing this kind of s***t to get the attention of those 50 people who clearly had nothing better to do on their weekend. But for goodness sake this isn't the indies. I can't believe Tony let's these guys go out there and have a match like this on the main event of his flagship show. The crowd got exhausted and bored after a certain point even though it was Garcia's hometown and I can't say I blame them. Because I was exhausted and bored too!

And to be perfectly honest, I am bored out of my mind of Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuta too. They've been given alot of spotlight on this show but all they've managed to come across is a bunch of charisma vaccumms with little to no personality, who can sometimes have good matches. I would give an arm and leg to see their TV time go to Miro or Eddie Kingston.

I usually watch all wrestling TV these days via youtube given how long it all is but if there is something big I look for the full segment/match. AEW YT for this week didn’t seem must see besides what MJF had to say, I tried to watch the YT videos of the other matches you have reviewed but couldn’t get into it. They need to make Starks a serious project. And keep on top of Wardlow so he doesn’t fizzle out

 

[shaz619]

Unfortunately it seems all the spice in AEW seems to happen behind-the-scenes. Maybe they should get a camera-crew to film a 10 part docuseries. I bet that would be very spicy.

They have so much talent and their disposal and resource for backstage roles to but are so disorganised but perhaps after last weekend they will hit reset and get better each week

 

[sweep_shot]

AEW was going so well. They are bottling it now.

I really thought they had the potential to be like WCW. That didn't happen.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Dax v Claudio on Rampage was awesome though. Two of the best workers in the company allowed to go out there and just wrestle.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Thing is am not even like critiquing Mox’s promo on whether it is good or bad but this guy is a baby face right now and maybe he was given autonomy or maybe not, how does I should have been on vacation add anything to the company especially after last weekends events? he is unnecessarily breaking kayfabe and suggesting he much rather be elsewhere then perform for the fans, now don’t get me wrong you know how I feel about the AEW audience but this is a baby face who is meant to be a stand up guy who should be covering for the debacle, but instead he is crying on national TV, the crowd kinda cringed at that line to like erm what? These guys got no respect for the promoter this is why Khan needs to hire a booker so talent stop taking liberties. Mox isn’t the first guy to have to work when plans change and the company have been too accommodating towards him as is. He is a name and the only reason Khan must be allowing him to exploit the situation but there are better options and if the plan is to use him to put over MJF I hope we can fast track that because Mox isn’t the champion the company needs as a face, I’ve disliked his work in AEW strongly but I will say his ring work and promo and the way he likes to do things will come off better if he is a heel.

Agree on Bryan/Jericho but this probably just going to be another TV match right? wait, they may be in a feud. I think given the heat and perception from the casual smarks on Jericho’s ring work as of late, I am fine with him getting his mojo back through Bryan.

The MJF stuff should have turned out different but he is the champion the company desperately need

I agree. Mox has mad potential as a heel. That's the direction they were going in this time last year before he checked himself into rehab. I think its something worth doing down the line but right now, because of the disparity of top babyfaces in AEW and because of how over Mox is, I don't see Tony Khan turning him. It's just not a smart idea at this point.

The stage seems set for MJF to hold on to the belt for an extended period of time. But even with him I don't see alot of babyfaces right now that he could have PPV level programs with, There's Mox, Bryan and Page. But besides them, I can't think of anyone that can be put in that main-event spot with the belt on the line.

 

[shaz619]

I agree. Mox has mad potential as a heel. That's the direction they were going in this time last year before he checked himself into rehab. I think its something worth doing down the line but right now, because of the disparity of top babyfaces in AEW and because of how over Mox is, I don't see Tony Khan turning him. It's just not a smart idea at this point.

The stage seems set for MJF to hold on to the belt for an extended period of time. But even with him I don't see alot of babyfaces right now that he could have PPV level programs with, There's Mox, Bryan and Page. But besides them, I can't think of anyone that can be put in that main-event spot with the belt on the line.

MJF v Wardlow would be a big program for the world title but that’s some time away, if MJF has the title for a bit, Wardlow should be the one to squash him

They do around 6 PPV events a year? AEW branded ones anyway

If the story telling is good and strong creative, one babyface can be stretched to two events, especially the senior vets

MJF v Mox - 2 PPV’s

MJF v Bryan - 2 PPV’s

You can do a champion v champion match between MJF and Cesaro at another PPV

So that’s 5 PPV’s sorted, if there’s a 6th one, there are still some solid options to work with such as Eddie Kingston, Samoa Joe and Dustin Rhodes

The beauty of pro wrestling is that the promoter has the opportunity to sell you a fight in a way not always possible in other worlds, maybe on paper some of these don’t sound like PPV but if the execution is on point, there is realism and things make sense, there is huge potential for compelling story telling and a guy like MJF has all the goods to carry the strap and achieve that

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

MJF v Wardlow would be a big program for the world title but that’s some time away, if MJF has the title for a bit, Wardlow should be the one to squash him

They do around 6 PPV events a year? AEW branded ones anyway

If the story telling is good and strong creative, one babyface can be stretched to two events, especially the senior vets

MJF v Mox - 2 PPV’s

MJF v Bryan - 2 PPV’s

You can do a champion v champion match between MJF and Cesaro at another PPV

So that’s 5 PPV’s sorted, if there’s a 6th one, there are still some solid options to work with such as Eddie Kingston, Samoa Joe and Dustin Rhodes

The beauty of pro wrestling is that the promoter has the opportunity to sell you a fight in a way not always possible in other worlds, maybe on paper some of these don’t sound like PPV but if the execution is on point, there is realism and things make sense, there is huge potential for compelling story telling and a guy like MJF has all the goods to carry the strap and achieve that

They do 4 PPVs a year.

Nothing against Claudio but I'm not sure if he is a proven commodity as a main-eventer yet. He needs to be featured at the top for an extended period of time to undo the years of WWE treating him as just another schlub on the roster.

I could definitely see that match on a special episode of Dynamite. One of those Fyter Fests or Road Ragers. Same with Dustin Rhodes because Dustin is someone who, in my opinion, should wrestle any and every guy on the upswing. Because he always makes the other guy look like a million bucks once he's done wrestling with them.

As much as I hate him, MJF vs. Hangman could be a PPV match. Because there's some history there and Page is a former champion in their company. Wardlow v MJF is for sure a World title feud down the line, when Wardlow is ready. But right now, Mox and Bryan are the biggest matches that they can book to get MJF over as the heel World Champion.

 

[shaz619]

They do 4 PPVs a year.

Nothing against Claudio but I'm not sure if he is a proven commodity as a main-eventer yet. He needs to be featured at the top for an extended period of time to undo the years of WWE treating him as just another schlub on the roster.

I could definitely see that match on a special episode of Dynamite. One of those Fyter Fests or Road Ragers. Same with Dustin Rhodes because Dustin is someone who, in my opinion, should wrestle any and every guy on the upswing. Because he always makes the other guy look like a million bucks once he's done wrestling with them.

As much as I hate him, MJF vs. Hangman could be a PPV match. Because there's some history there and Page is a former champion in their company. Wardlow v MJF is for sure a World title feud down the line, when Wardlow is ready. But right now, Mox and Bryan are the biggest matches that they can book to get MJF over as the heel World Champion.

4 PPV’s then there shouldn’t be any major issues if the creative is strong, both Bryan and Mox are the ideal choices to stretch feuds across those events. Cesaro I have highlighted because he is a name, he didn’t get to world honours in WWE but he is still a bigger star then majority of the AEW roster due to the familiarity he will have with audiences across the United States, if MJF ran out of names to work with he and Dustin for examples are guys I’d have on the list, and off course they’d need to be built up well and booked strong.

Hangman I have zero respect for, his ring work is meh nothing I ain't seen before and he doesn’t do anything special as a character, I cringe during his promos. He isn’t a PPV guy but if they want to do it for the sake of it and don’t mind losing some buys then it’s their choice but I wont be remotely interested in a program between MJF and Page, MJF would be doing the bulk of the heavy lifting. Page was a failure as a champion and the worst person to whole the title so far.

There’s Darby Allin to, he got some exposure from Punk and Sting has done his best to put him over, he is popular and works hard, this is another good option for a program potentially

 

[shaz619]

The lack of PPV options is poor, Wardlow is the only guy besides the usual who looks like he could draw, this is the problem you face when the names are not available and you put all your eggs in one basket

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] I revisited Mox's promo from last week and I have to say this was much better than I initially gave it credit for. As a babyface promo this was absolute gold. And while I don't think it was his best one, it was definitely one of his most authentic.

I think more than anything this promo underscored his remarkable ability to get around difficult things in a subtle way through generalized ideas. Where it isn't overt or spelt out what he's talking about, but you do get an indication. The best thing about this kind of promo style is that because he's oftentimes talking in abstract ideas, he is able to communicate to an average fan who isn't aware of the ins and outs of the business. And he can communicate to the smart fan who is.

What differentiates Mox from the rest (because there are others who can do this in a ham-fisted sort of a way) is that his verbiage and choice of words is excellent. He is someone who very clearly has the gift of gab. And that's what makes him so memorable and unique on the mic.

In a sense this promo reminded me of his promo when he returned from rehab...which was much better but similar in style.

I know you have your opinion on it. But if you think about what you expect from a top babyface, he checked out all the boxes here. He accepted accountability for defeat like a man and didn't make any excuses. He reminded everyone who he is and what he has accomplished. I know you didn't like his line about the belt but fact is, his metaphor made sense and his whole bit about the belt and what it meant was actually excellent. Above all, he ended it with a classical babyface rallying cry to get the people behind him.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

4 PPV’s then there shouldn’t be any major issues if the creative is strong, both Bryan and Mox are the ideal choices to stretch feuds across those events. Cesaro I have highlighted because he is a name, he didn’t get to world honours in WWE but he is still a bigger star then majority of the AEW roster due to the familiarity he will have with audiences across the United States, if MJF ran out of names to work with he and Dustin for examples are guys I’d have on the list, and off course they’d need to be built up well and booked strong.

Hangman I have zero respect for, his ring work is meh nothing I ain't seen before and he doesn’t do anything special as a character, I cringe during his promos. He isn’t a PPV guy but if they want to do it for the sake of it and don’t mind losing some buys then it’s their choice but I wont be remotely interested in a program between MJF and Page, MJF would be doing the bulk of the heavy lifting. Page was a failure as a champion and the worst person to whole the title so far.

There’s Darby Allin to, he got some exposure from Punk and Sting has done his best to put him over, he is popular and works hard, this is another good option for a program potentially

I think Page is good in the ring. But that's about it. He's nothing more than an IC Champion at best. He has zero personality and zero charisma and probably would not be a top guy in any major wrestling company in the world besides AEW. Heck, he would lucky to be employed in most wrestling promotions period after what he pulled.

But that said, he is still a babyface (somehow shockingly) to this AEW crowd and a former World Champion in this company. He and MJF have some history where MJF screwed him out of the Dynamite Diamond Ring during the first year of AEW. Point is, a compelling feud could be built. Once you run out of options.

Darby v MJF I would actually love to see because MJF v Darby at Full Gear from last year is probably one of my Top 5 AEW matches ever and the best match that I've seen between two young guys have in I don't even know how long.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The lack of PPV options is poor, Wardlow is the only guy besides the usual who looks like he could draw, this is the problem you face when the names are not available and you put all your eggs in one basket

I know I said Wardlow needs more of that Goldberg booking. But watching him on Dynamite gives me the indication that he might need something more. Because just looking at where he was at Double Or Nothing and where he was on this show, it just feels like the crowd has gone cold on him.

Ofcourse 99% of that is down to the s**t booking. But he desperately needs a compelling feud as well. Because while that Goldberg booking is nice and good, I feel like he needs something more to feel more human and go to that next level: i.e. the main-event. Because can't become a main-eventer just by squashing job guys.

Which is why I think they should program him into a feud with Miro or Brody King.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] I revisited Mox's promo from last week and I have to say this was much better than I initially gave it credit for. As a babyface promo this was absolute gold. And while I don't think it was his best one, it was definitely one of his most authentic.

I think more than anything this promo underscored his remarkable ability to get around difficult things in a subtle way through generalized ideas. Where it isn't overt or spelt out what he's talking about, but you do get an indication. The best thing about this kind of promo style is that because he's oftentimes talking in abstract ideas, he is able to communicate to an average fan who isn't aware of the ins and outs of the business. And he can communicate to the smart fan who is.

What differentiates Mox from the rest (because there are others who can do this in a ham-fisted sort of a way) is that his verbiage and choice of words is excellent. He is someone who very clearly has the gift of gab. And that's what makes him so memorable and unique on the mic.

In a sense this promo reminded me of his promo when he returned from rehab...which was much better but similar in style.

I know you have your opinion on it. But if you think about what you expect from a top babyface, he checked out all the boxes here. He accepted accountability for defeat like a man and didn't make any excuses. He reminded everyone who he is and what he has accomplished. I know you didn't like his line about the belt but fact is, his metaphor made sense and his whole bit about the belt and what it meant was actually excellent. Above all, he ended it with a classical babyface rallying cry to get the people behind him.

I don’t know which promo you listened to because it’s one of his worst and most contradictory, he lost me when he said he is meant to be on vacation implying he much rather not perform for the fans, sure if you review it as a whole you can look for all the positives etc but with a promo he wasn’t submitting an essay for review, there are real implications on national TV and he lost me there and the crowd was awkwardly responding to it. Mox simply doesn’t behave like a normal baby face should, he just isn’t that guy

 

[shaz619]

I think Page is good in the ring. But that's about it. He's nothing more than an IC Champion at best. He has zero personality and zero charisma and probably would not be a top guy in any major wrestling company in the world besides AEW. Heck, he would lucky to be employed in most wrestling promotions period after what he pulled.

But that said, he is still a babyface (somehow shockingly) to this AEW crowd and a former World Champion in this company. He and MJF have some history where MJF screwed him out of the Dynamite Diamond Ring during the first year of AEW. Point is, a compelling feud could be built. Once you run out of options.

Darby v MJF I would actually love to see because MJF v Darby at Full Gear from last year is probably one of my Top 5 AEW matches ever and the best match that I've seen between two young guys have in I don't even know how long.

Yeah I agree on that for that crowd he is a martyr but the Page experiment is largely over, he didn’t do anything ground breaking. I agree with you he is lucky to be in a job, I’ve seen media crying about him jobbing to BRYAN LOOL unreal, wrestling media turned on Punk when be exposed their bias

Also back on Cesaro, it may be a while ago but his final stretch with the E was pretty good, he worked with Balor and on PPV with Seth and Reigns, even if one didn’t reach the heights we would have liked to see on the whole we sometimes underestimate how big a star is every where else as a result of the exposure in WWE, but Cesaro got some justice at the end those matches were great with some big guns

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] I revisited Mox's promo from last week and I have to say this was much better than I initially gave it credit for. As a babyface promo this was absolute gold. And while I don't think it was his best one, it was definitely one of his most authentic.

I think more than anything this promo underscored his remarkable ability to get around difficult things in a subtle way through generalized ideas. Where it isn't overt or spelt out what he's talking about, but you do get an indication. The best thing about this kind of promo style is that because he's oftentimes talking in abstract ideas, he is able to communicate to an average fan who isn't aware of the ins and outs of the business. And he can communicate to the smart fan who is.

What differentiates Mox from the rest (because there are others who can do this in a ham-fisted sort of a way) is that his verbiage and choice of words is excellent. He is someone who very clearly has the gift of gab. And that's what makes him so memorable and unique on the mic.

In a sense this promo reminded me of his promo when he returned from rehab...which was much better but similar in style.

I know you have your opinion on it. But if you think about what you expect from a top babyface, he checked out all the boxes here. He accepted accountability for defeat like a man and didn't make any excuses. He reminded everyone who he is and what he has accomplished. I know you didn't like his line about the belt but fact is, his metaphor made sense and his whole bit about the belt and what it meant was actually excellent. Above all, he ended it with a classical babyface rallying cry to get the people behind him.

Maybe I am being critical but I should because he messed up there for me, he is a very frustrating performer because I’ve never questioned his ability, just his use of brain cells. Whether it’s the uncalled for blading or breaking the 4th wall when it takes more away from what he is trying to achieve as a face is non-sensical, and thing is this isn’t the first time. He is lucky to be before a crowd which like him so much and are easy to please so his unacceptable shoots are forgiven and forgotten

 

[shaz619]

When you look at how wrestling media has been so biased against Punk it is clear to see who is leaking to the media.

All round a poor situation and Khan should have dealt with these issues much sooner. A very reactive promoter and a mark who has all the money but zero leadership

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don’t know which promo you listened to because it’s one of his worst and most contradictory, he lost me when he said he is meant to be on vacation implying he much rather not perform for the fans, sure if you review it as a whole you can look for all the positives etc but with a promo he wasn’t submitting an essay for review, there are real implications on national TV and he lost me there and the crowd was awkwardly responding to it. Mox simply doesn’t behave like a normal baby face should, he just isn’t that guy

That part didn't bother me too much. He said I was supposed to go on vacation until a couple of days ago meaning he was planning to go on vacation after he lost the match. I don't see an issue with that.

I don't agree. Yeah, he has heel tendencies but then again, you could make the same case for alot of other famous babyfaces too. Including guys like Funk and Austin, who oftentimes did some very heelish things even as babyfaces. But it didn't matter because they were beloved and were still predominantly babyfaces. And its the same with Moxley. Ultimately, I don't think there's a single guy in AEW who is more beloved by the fans than Jon Moxley. And that includes Punk.

Whether you like it or not, fact is you can't become that beloved if you aren't a massive babyface to the fans.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yeah I agree on that for that crowd he is a martyr but the Page experiment is largely over, he didn’t do anything ground breaking. I agree with you he is lucky to be in a job, I’ve seen media crying about him jobbing to BRYAN LOOL unreal, wrestling media turned on Punk when be exposed their bias

Also back on Cesaro, it may be a while ago but his final stretch with the E was pretty good, he worked with Balor and on PPV with Seth and Reigns, even if one didn’t reach the heights we would have liked to see on the whole we sometimes underestimate how big a star is every where else as a result of the exposure in WWE, but Cesaro got some justice at the end those matches were great with some big guns

The thing I noticed about Page on this show was that he was booed heavily. I find that interesting. Because while I expected boos for Punk, TK, Omega and the Bucks, I wasn't sure about him getting booed. And that tells me that eventhough he is a martyr to that niche of the niche crowd...who actually buy into his horse*it wannabe millennial cowboy gimmick, most of the fans recognize what he did.

Well I don't think there was ever any doubt about his in-ring ability. The problem was the way that he was treated. And even with that final run where you thought they were pushing him...he beat Bryan on SD!, Rolllins at Mania and wrestled Roman for the belt...at the end that push mysteriously stopped too. Without any reason whatsoever. And at the end of the day, what does the poor guy even have to show for nearly a decade in WWE? A lousy US title run at the very start of his career and a couple of tag team reigns. They didn't even let him with the IC title! I don't blame Claudio at all for where he has been. He has always been excellent and one of the best workers in the business. It's WWE that dropped the ball with him big time.

 

[shaz619]

That part didn't bother me too much. He said I was supposed to go on vacation until a couple of days ago meaning he was planning to go on vacation after he lost the match. I don't see an issue with that.

I don't agree. Yeah, he has heel tendencies but then again, you could make the same case for alot of other famous babyfaces too. Including guys like Funk and Austin, who oftentimes did some very heelish things even as babyfaces. But it didn't matter because they were beloved and were still predominantly babyfaces. And its the same with Moxley. Ultimately, I don't think there's a single guy in AEW who is more beloved by the fans than Jon Moxley. And that includes Punk.

Whether you like it or not, fact is you can't become that beloved if you aren't a massive babyface to the fans.

It’s an interesting situation though because the same people who like him, he told them to go F themselves didn’t he lol it’s not conventional baby face material this guy, for that crowd he don’t gotta do much to get a pop, he is liked yes but does that mean every thing he does is causing that? am not sure that’s the case every time because anyone else wouldn’t get away with some of what he says because which fans like to be sweared at and who likes a beloved face to tell them he rather be on vacation. Funk for most of his prime was a personified heel, Austin during his peak portrayed an anti-hero persona which was over, but I don’t know if he did a shoot on the fans or whatever. But what I was trying to tell you was he lost me there but if I ignore that it was a great promo, I will give you that because Tony wasn’t clever enough to somewhat address the weekend and the fans needed Mox to do that promo, but every time I see MJF am just blown away, from what I gather the network are huge fans to and they are not into the wrestling much

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Maybe I am being critical but I should because he messed up there for me, he is a very frustrating performer because I’ve never questioned his ability, just his use of brain cells. Whether it’s the uncalled for blading or breaking the 4th wall when it takes more away from what he is trying to achieve as a face is non-sensical, and thing is this isn’t the first time. He is lucky to be before a crowd which like him so much and are easy to please so his unacceptable shoots are forgiven and forgotten

He comes across as a real guy though. He's also got a rebel vibe to him that people relate to. Even when he's talking about cracking bones and drinking blood (as absurd as that is) you buy into it because it seems like he believes it. That's why he can often say contradictory things but it doesn't matter because the character is just that strong. And like I said, you can be heelish without actually being a heel. And I've never gotten the indication that Mox was ever a heel barring last year when he came out on Dynamite an absolute killed a Dark Order guy and left him in a pool of his own blood...but even that was acceptable because they were setting up a heel turn that didn't fully materialize.

 

[shaz619]

The thing I noticed about Page on this show was that he was booed heavily. I find that interesting. Because while I expected boos for Punk, TK, Omega and the Bucks, I wasn't sure about him getting booed. And that tells me that eventhough he is a martyr to that niche of the niche crowd...who actually buy into his horse*it wannabe millennial cowboy gimmick, most of the fans recognize what he did.

Well I don't think there was ever any doubt about his in-ring ability. The problem was the way that he was treated. And even with that final run where you thought they were pushing him...he beat Bryan on SD!, Rolllins at Mania and wrestled Roman for the belt...at the end that push mysteriously stopped too. Without any reason whatsoever. And at the end of the day, what does the poor guy even have to show for nearly a decade in WWE? A lousy US title run at the very start of his career and a couple of tag team reigns. They didn't even let him with the IC title! I don't blame Claudio at all for where he has been. He has always been excellent and one of the best workers in the business. It's WWE that dropped the ball with him big time.

It makes sense because no matter what side you are on, Page is at fault. If you like Omega and the other dimwits its Page’s fault they are not here, if you like Punk, you can thank Page he is no longer here. But it is interesting to see that lot recognised this and applied basic logic / reasoning

If am honest I think Cesaro over achieved, he could have been well beneath how he was presented due to his inability with the mic but I think with WWE, it’s a high level and not easy to even hold a spot between the mid to upper mid card regularly because everyone can work. What got Cesaro over was his super human strength and unique offence, as a character I feel I really enjoyed the real americans run with Zeb and his final run was fun to. Maybe things went south at times but he got to work with the best in the company and had a showcase singles match at a Wrestlemania. He got some bad luck towards the end I thought with some injury to which may have halted the push but he was a valuable member for them. If I was bringing him in I’d recognise that and strap a rocket, are you a fam of how he is being used currently? I haven’t seen him on Dynamite and I treat Rampage like Sunday Night Heat, it seems most viewers do as well

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It’s an interesting situation though because the same people who like him, he told them to go F themselves didn’t he lol it’s not conventional baby face material this guy, for that crowd he don’t gotta do much to get a pop, he is liked yes but does that mean every thing he does is causing that? am not sure that’s the case every time because anyone else wouldn’t get away with some of what he says because which fans like to be sweared at and who likes a beloved face to tell them he rather be on vacation. Funk for most of his prime was a personified heel, Austin during his peak portrayed an anti-hero persona which was over, but I don’t know if he did a shoot on the fans or whatever. But what I was trying to tell you was he lost me there but if I ignore that it was a great promo, I will give you that because Tony wasn’t clever enough to somewhat address the weekend and the fans needed Mox to do that promo, but every time I see MJF am just blown away, from what I gather the network are huge fans to and they are not into the wrestling much

Well he told one guy to go F himself after he hurled a completely unnecessary abuse at him. For which Moxley was cheered. Not saying that was right...what he did,but I don't think you can even call that a heel thing. Even Punk insulted a heckler on Dynamite last week.

I dunno man, I was always big on Mox. When I started watching AEW he was my guy. Because I always thought he was underused in WWE and it was great to see him finally be a top guy and just be unhinged. But this year...ever since his return from rehab, I feel he has just gone to the next level. His promos have been incredible, his matches (for the most part) have been great and the reactions that he is getting are hard to look past. He was cheered even in Chicago when he came out for the match against Punk. I can't think of many others who would be cheered in Chicago in a match against CM Punk. Not to mention, he carried the flag for AEW as World Champion when Punk got hurt and delivered every single week. He has had a heck of a year for me and deserves all the praise and plaudits in the world. The finishing touch was really this feud with Punk. And thing is, the year for him might not even have ended yet considering he will probably be main-eventing Grand Slam.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] I was thinking, if the plan is to do Roman v The Rock, it has to be for the title.

I changed my take on this because if you don’t do it for the belt and say it’s at mania, those who are fighting for the championships would then be second fiddle and overshadowed by a huge match.

Imagine Rock v Roman is not for the title

And hypothetically we get Cody v KO or someone else open the show for the titles, it would be nice but not as big a deal as it should be.

I’ve never been a fan of the titles being booked on the under card and it devalues them and whoever is fighting for them, it would mean less to imo regardless of main event or not a Rock match would overshadow the belts

What do you think?