The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] I have a question for you. Both me and Rabbit know that you are not a fan of old HHH. But I wanna know what is the one thing about him that made you negative on him, and also what is the most despicable thing he has done in his career, in your opinion?

Now keep in mind that it has to be a specific thing and not something like his golden shovel run where he single-handedly buried the entire RAW roster over a period of 3 years.

In my opinion, the most appalling thing he did was that entire program with Booker T. Which I thought was not only incredibly racist and made Book look like a minor league, undercard talent. But it also buried him six feet under because despite all the nasty things HHH said about him, his race and his past, Hunter still won. Ofcourse I’m not saying that Booker was a star at the level of H, but he shouldn’t have been put in that position where the heel said all those appalling things and still came out on top.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

On the non-wrestling wrestling media front, I have to say I have been really enjoying A&E’s two WWE shows: Biography and WWE Rivals. Now granted some episodes have been bleh (Lex Luger, DX) and some I feel like are just rehashed WWE propaganda pieces (The WWE v WCW episode of Rivals). The Bella Twins episode of Biography was just straight-up unwatchable for me. But then there’s also been some straight-up amazing episodes that explore the lives of these legends that we have all come to know and love over the years, and actually pull back the curtain to show us certain parts of their lives that we may not necessarily have known about.

The Angle and Edge episodes of Biography deserve special mention.

But by far the best episode that I think every wrestling fan should see is the Rey Mysterio Biography one. It clocked it at 80 minutes but went by in a flash because it basically explored Rey’s life from when he started wrestling as a freakin’ 14 year old kid to present day. And man oh man was this an inspiring episode. When you get to see the number of hurdles that Rey had to overcome to get where he is today, your appreciation for wrestling just goes to a new level. And I’m talking about when he started out in Mexico as a literal kid, not just in WWE and WCW. Couldn’t recommend this episode enough.

Still have to see the Rey v Eddie episode of WWE Rivals. But I’m saving that for a special occasion when I have plenty of snacks and free time on my side to properly enjoy it.

Besides that, I also checked out Kevin Nash’s podcast Kliq This and I have to say I am instantly a fan. I don’t listen to much wrestling podcasts. I listen to Corny’s clips on YouTube…I’ll check out Jericho’s podcast every now and then if he has an interesting guest on, and I listen to Bryan Alvarez’s podcast. But right off the bat, this is something different and what makes it so good to listen to is actually Kevin Nash. Now that he is out of the wrestling business you get to hear that the guy actually does have some real wit to him and is engaging and funny to listen to because of the way he tells his stories. So, kudos to [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] for recommending this.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Riddle actually got his name back lol. For real though, that interview segment with Rollins was intense and brilliantly executed. It felt real and different, and the intensity that both guys showed was incredible.

Yeah no point putting Drew over if you are going to do it in a hackneyed manner with someone interfering. Drew has done the job for Roman numerous times. The time is right to strap a rocket to Drew's back and make a star out of him. Roman has had a legendary run but the time may be right to put an end to it. He could win one of the belts back and maybe feud with Cody when he comes back, but right now its Drew's time.

Sheamus v WALTER should open the show imo. That's a match that feels like it was booked specifically for a European audience as you noted. It will get a big reaction.

Considering Roman is a part timer now, it makes him no different to Brock now and to have him both belts would only devalue the product considering his part time contract came into effect only a month or two ago.

I think Cody just wants to win the top title rather than specifically targeting Roman. I feel like Roman vs Rock will still be the focus for the Mania season if reports are true. And seriously Roman vs Rock doesn't need the title on the line. A blood feud would make for a much better story.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I didn't. Tbh I'm not quite sure if these two are working or shooting. But I don't think there's absolutely any doubt that they guys are a bunch of insecure, unprofessional little dweebs. I don't care about their in-ring ability or the amount of good to great matches they can have. And this is also yet another instance of why you absolutely should not have active wrestlers involved in booking or creative. Barring a handful of examples (Dusty, Lawler, maybe Onita), I feel like its something that always backfires eventually and ends up getting the booker massive heat with the boys because sooner or later the wrestler being a wrestler wants to put himself over. And whether that is for the right reasons or the wrong reasons its something that is bound to get you heat in the locker-room.

From Bockwinkle to Inoki to Sullivan to Nash to even Flair, it does not seem like this strategy has worked much over the years.

Btw did you hear about the talent meeting Tony called where these dweebs actually got a chance to speak? Some of the stories I'm hearing online are absolutely hilarious.

Kenny's alliance with Don Callis is way too annoying for me. Like what exactly is Callis' role there? Is he delivering fantastic promos to putting him over? No. Is he a bodyguard like force for Kenny? No.
They've probably tried to put him there to put an effect like Heyman yet he isn't even half as good as Bivens.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Considering Roman is a part timer now, it makes him no different to Brock now and to have him both belts would only devalue the product considering his part time contract came into effect only a month or two ago.

I think Cody just wants to win the top title rather than specifically targeting Roman. I feel like Roman vs Rock will still be the focus for the Mania season if reports are true. And seriously Roman vs Rock doesn't need the title on the line. A blood feud would make for a much better story.

Yeah but Rock v Roman is by no means a go because of The Rock's busy schedule. I mean, he couldn't do the match with Triple H back in 2015, imagine how his schedule looks like now that he is the biggest movie star in Hollywood.

 

[Markhor]

On the non-wrestling wrestling media front, I have to say I have been really enjoying A&E’s two WWE shows: Biography and WWE Rivals. Now granted some episodes have been bleh (Lex Luger, DX) and some I feel like are just rehashed WWE propaganda pieces (The WWE v WCW episode of Rivals). The Bella Twins episode of Biography was just straight-up unwatchable for me. But then there’s also been some straight-up amazing episodes that explore the lives of these legends that we have all come to know and love over the years, and actually pull back the curtain to show us certain parts of their lives that we may not necessarily have known about.

The Angle and Edge episodes of Biography deserve special mention.

But by far the best episode that I think every wrestling fan should see is the Rey Mysterio Biography one. It clocked it at 80 minutes but went by in a flash because it basically explored Rey’s life from when he started wrestling as a freakin’ 14 year old kid to present day. And man oh man was this an inspiring episode. When you get to see the number of hurdles that Rey had to overcome to get where he is today, your appreciation for wrestling just goes to a new level. And I’m talking about when he started out in Mexico as a literal kid, not just in WWE and WCW. Couldn’t recommend this episode enough.

Still have to see the Rey v Eddie episode of WWE Rivals. But I’m saving that for a special occasion when I have plenty of snacks and free time on my side to properly enjoy it.

Besides that, I also checked out Kevin Nash’s podcast Kliq This and I have to say I am instantly a fan. I don’t listen to much wrestling podcasts. I listen to Corny’s clips on YouTube…I’ll check out Jericho’s podcast every now and then if he has an interesting guest on, and I listen to Bryan Alvarez’s podcast. But right off the bat, this is something different and what makes it so good to listen to is actually Kevin Nash. Now that he is out of the wrestling business you get to hear that the guy actually does have some real wit to him and is engaging and funny to listen to because of the way he tells his stories. So, kudos to [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] for recommending this.

I watched the Luger episode last night. Luger's career was a classic case of unfulfilled expectations. While a far superior athlete than Hogan, he was pushed as Hogan 2.0 when fans were tiring of the real Hulk Hogan. And for all Hogan's faults, he was a consummate showman whereas Luger's promos were meh, and was a better heel.

His real life story though is incredible. Like Bobby Heenan's throat cancer destroying the voice of the greatest talker in wrestling, it's cruel irony the "Total Package" is largely confined to a wheelchair after a spinal stroke. Hopefully he'll get his HOF induction.

I do need to see more of the A&E documentaries.

I find it difficult to listen to Cornette. No doubt he's a brilliant historian, though overly partial to 70s Memphis wrestling, and entertaining when angered - he's also a vile Islamophobe.

A podcast I've recently got into is Foley is Pod. Mick Foley is one of life's most genuine and caring human beings. He's a great storyteller (little surprise he's been a successful author) although can sometimes ramble. He's a harsh critic of himself and put lots of thought into his angle.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I watched the Luger episode last night. Luger's career was a classic case of unfulfilled expectations. While a far superior athlete than Hogan, he was pushed as Hogan 2.0 when fans were tiring of the real Hulk Hogan. And for all Hogan's faults, he was a consummate showman whereas Luger's promos were meh, and was a better heel.

His real life story though is incredible. Like Bobby Heenan's throat cancer destroying the voice of the greatest talker in wrestling, it's cruel irony the "Total Package" is largely confined to a wheelchair after a spinal stroke. Hopefully he'll get his HOF induction.

I do need to see more of the A&E documentaries.

I find it difficult to listen to Cornette. No doubt he's a brilliant historian, though overly partial to 70s Memphis wrestling, and entertaining when angered - he's also a vile Islamophobe.

A podcast I've recently got into is Foley is Pod. Mick Foley is one of life's most genuine and caring human beings. He's a great storyteller (little surprise he's been a successful author) although can sometimes ramble. He's a harsh critic of himself and put lots of thought into his angle.

I may have been a little harsh on the Luger episode. No doubt that the latter half of that documentary was uplifting. But it seemed to me like all everyone could say about him was how arrogant he was. And I'm sure that was 100% true but I was looking for something deeper about the guy besides the fact that he was arrogant and loved himself. Kinda like we got with Angle and Edge. You simply must see the Rey Mysterio episode. It comfortably blows all the episodes out of the water and features quite a bit of stuff that certainly I wasn't particularly aware of. Which is not always the case with these docs. In Angle's case I was pretty well-aware of his substance abuse issues eventhough they were given more of an emotional heft here because of the interviews of his wife and others close to him.

That's a very legitimate reason to be turned off by Cornette.

I'll definitely check it out. Foley is a natural story-teller so it wouldn't even surprise me if I liked this. I mean you can deduce that just by reading his book. If I'm not wrong this too started recently.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] I have a question for you. Both me and Rabbit know that you are not a fan of old HHH. But I wanna know what is the one thing about him that made you negative on him, and also what is the most despicable thing he has done in his career, in your opinion?

Now keep in mind that it has to be a specific thing and not something like his golden shovel run where he single-handedly buried the entire RAW roster over a period of 3 years.

In my opinion, the most appalling thing he did was that entire program with Booker T. Which I thought was not only incredibly racist and made Book look like a minor league, undercard talent. But it also buried him six feet under because despite all the nasty things HHH said about him, his race and his past, Hunter still won. Ofcourse I’m not saying that Booker was a star at the level of H, but he shouldn’t have been put in that position where the heel said all those appalling things and still came out on top.

Ah there are too many to list but you’d have to go to reddit to read some legendary Darth Burius stories.

For me personally, the ending of WM 2000 was an abomination, he is the first heel in WM history to go over in a main event and it made no sense remotely at a time when Rocky’s popularity had reached Austin’s level, that was disgusting and the aftermath, I don’t think we’ve ever seen such scenes during the conclusion of a WM main event. I don’t know if you remember that PPV but just imagine what you’d be going through, am not even a huge Rock mark anymore but he is the reason I fell in love with wrestling and after him it was Shawn.

In the backstage world it will be difficult to eclipse him being instrumental in screwing Bret, that is right up there to.

And the Booker T one deserves to be mentioned with the rest and is peak Darth Burius during the RA era. That feud was nasty, Hunter going over sort of solidified his remarks during that feud, that was the story…that black people are inferior criminals and he had to beat them

 

[shaz619]

I watched the Luger episode last night. Luger's career was a classic case of unfulfilled expectations. While a far superior athlete than Hogan, he was pushed as Hogan 2.0 when fans were tiring of the real Hulk Hogan. And for all Hogan's faults, he was a consummate showman whereas Luger's promos were meh, and was a better heel.

His real life story though is incredible. Like Bobby Heenan's throat cancer destroying the voice of the greatest talker in wrestling, it's cruel irony the "Total Package" is largely confined to a wheelchair after a spinal stroke. Hopefully he'll get his HOF induction.

I do need to see more of the A&E documentaries.

I find it difficult to listen to Cornette. No doubt he's a brilliant historian, though overly partial to 70s Memphis wrestling, and entertaining when angered - he's also a vile Islamophobe.

A podcast I've recently got into is Foley is Pod. Mick Foley is one of life's most genuine and caring human beings. He's a great storyteller (little surprise he's been a successful author) although can sometimes ramble. He's a harsh critic of himself and put lots of thought into his angle.

I may have been a little harsh on the Luger episode. No doubt that the latter half of that documentary was uplifting. But it seemed to me like all everyone could say about him was how arrogant he was. And I'm sure that was 100% true but I was looking for something deeper about the guy besides the fact that he was arrogant and loved himself. Kinda like we got with Angle and Edge. You simply must see the Rey Mysterio episode. It comfortably blows all the episodes out of the water and features quite a bit of stuff that certainly I wasn't particularly aware of. Which is not always the case with these docs. In Angle's case I was pretty well-aware of his substance abuse issues eventhough they were given more of an emotional heft here because of the interviews of his wife and others close to him.

That's a very legitimate reason to be turned off by Cornette.

I'll definitely check it out. Foley is a natural story-teller so it wouldn't even surprise me if I liked this. I mean you can deduce that just by reading his book. If I'm not wrong this too started recently.

Harsh, no one in wrestling is a saint outside maybe a handful of people. This Amreeka we’re talking, he isn’t a die hard Trump fan either and I can get where some of his views come from. The remarks Markhor is alluding to were made in the wake of the Paris attacks, in the heat of the moment am sure we all say all sorts and especially behind closed doors, Jim apologised after the cageside seats article, he doesn’t always do that and he is more authentic then most in the business right now. He loved that era of wrestling but that can overlook the eye he has for the business even today, what he says for the most part just makes sense and you rarely pick up on the things he can see during a match and is well ahead of so called wrestling journalists. He doesn’t hide his personal issues with others, e.g. the Bucks but as we have seen, he was telling the truth. If Jim was clouded by the territory days or was limited by that time, OVW would have been a failure, he has been a good mentor and talent coach for guys who will end up in the HOF one day. Anyway, I largely ignore the personal views of raslers in the US.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah but Rock v Roman is by no means a go because of The Rock's busy schedule. I mean, he couldn't do the match with Triple H back in 2015, imagine how his schedule looks like now that he is the biggest movie star in Hollywood.

Actually there isn't any movie of his in production strangely enough. The ones that have been announced have been in development for years already. I guess Dwayne is voluntarily keeping his shooting schedule free for that time. Plus the difference between now and 2015 is he now has a production company of his own, so isn't going to be pressured by the movie execs to not wrestle and potentially injure himself like he did so in his match against Cena that delayed Hercules schedule.

Plus I think if Dwayne really wants to do it, he will. He can adjust his schedule to do a few Raws or SD and leave immediately on his own jet. Afterwards, it's only about making time for 1 or 2 days.
Considering Roman is his family and the Anoi family are family over everything. I think he'd be interested in getting that match. But it won't really be a passing of the torch moment cause Roman has become a part timer now and Cena, Brock and Taker all have passed the torch to him already.

 

[shaz619]

Actually there isn't any movie of his in production strangely enough. The ones that have been announced have been in development for years already. I guess Dwayne is voluntarily keeping his shooting schedule free for that time. Plus the difference between now and 2015 is he now has a production company of his own, so isn't going to be pressured by the movie execs to not wrestle and potentially injure himself like he did so in his match against Cena that delayed Hercules schedule.

Plus I think if Dwayne really wants to do it, he will. He can adjust his schedule to do a few Raws or SD and leave immediately on his own jet. Afterwards, it's only about making time for 1 or 2 days.
Considering Roman is his family and the Anoi family are family over everything. I think he'd be interested in getting that match. But it won't really be a passing of the torch moment cause Roman has become a part timer now and Cena, Brock and Taker all have passed the torch to him already.

Good point, it’s just another big money match at this point. They are better off booking The Rock against Bron Breakker or Austin Theory, Bron is still developing so it depends the speed at which he is able to move up. But, for better or worse, even if it generates heat, it would be brilliant for them to share the stage with a megastar. Ideally, it would make things easier if one of those names is able to reach world championship level. Another good option would be The Fiend if he returns, he is already a star but has largely received the 50/50 treatment, a match / W over the Rock would strap a rocket to his back again. Realistically I think at this point, The Rock would only put over Reigns and it is a dream match, Reigns may be on a reduced schedule but the company still need an attraction for big events, Lesnar wont be around forever even though he is a freak

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Actually there isn't any movie of his in production strangely enough. The ones that have been announced have been in development for years already. I guess Dwayne is voluntarily keeping his shooting schedule free for that time. Plus the difference between now and 2015 is he now has a production company of his own, so isn't going to be pressured by the movie execs to not wrestle and potentially injure himself like he did so in his match against Cena that delayed Hercules schedule.

Plus I think if Dwayne really wants to do it, he will. He can adjust his schedule to do a few Raws or SD and leave immediately on his own jet. Afterwards, it's only about making time for 1 or 2 days.
Considering Roman is his family and the Anoi family are family over everything. I think he'd be interested in getting that match. But it won't really be a passing of the torch moment cause Roman has become a part timer now and Cena, Brock and Taker all have passed the torch to him already.

I'm certain he does want to do it. WWE has basically been pushing for this idea for close to 2 years now. Initially it was supposed to take place at WM 38. But The Rock's schedule isn't merely restricted to the stuff he is starring in. There are a number of projects that he is exec. producing and producing too.

And then you also have to take into account that it's The Rock. And that he will need a significant period of time to train inorder to be ring-ready. Knowing him he probably wouldn't want to do something that he isn't 100% ready for.

That said, if I were a betting man, I would say that he will probably do the match. They've been pushing this match for way too long and even decided to do WrestleMania in LA. They wouldn't have made that decision if they weren't reasonably sure that they would get that massive level of publicity that is going to come with The Rock in that city. And on top of everything, Roman and Rock are family so if The Rock was ever going to go out of his way to do something like this, it would probably be for family.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Speaking of stuff The Rock is exec. producing, he is doing a series with the producers of the Dark Side of the Ring called Tales From the Territories. The show will chronicle different stories from the territories. And its coming out in the next month or so. So definitely looking forward to that.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Ah there are too many to list but you’d have to go to reddit to read some legendary Darth Burius stories.

For me personally, the ending of WM 2000 was an abomination, he is the first heel in WM history to go over in a main event and it made no sense remotely at a time when Rocky’s popularity had reached Austin’s level, that was disgusting and the aftermath, I don’t think we’ve ever seen such scenes during the conclusion of a WM main event. I don’t know if you remember that PPV but just imagine what you’d be going through, am not even a huge Rock mark anymore but he is the reason I fell in love with wrestling and after him it was Shawn.

In the backstage world it will be difficult to eclipse him being instrumental in screwing Bret, that is right up there to.

And the Booker T one deserves to be mentioned with the rest and is peak Darth Burius during the RA era. That feud was nasty, Hunter going over sort of solidified his remarks during that feud, that was the story…that black people are inferior criminals and he had to beat them

Funny you mention that WrestleMania 2000 main-event because I was watching Triple H on Logan Paul's podcast a week or two ago, and he actually said something along the lines of...the biggest missed opportunity in his career was not being able to have a one-on-one match against The Rock in the main-event of WrestleMania. Like, it wasn't enough for him to go over in the WrestleMania main-event...he wanted to beat The Rock one-on-one lol.

Now that I think about it, that actually explains alot regarding why he wanted to face The Rock at WrestleMania 31. And why winning that four way wasn't enough for him, because he had already beaten Mick at the Rumble and No Way Out and would go on to beat Austin at No Way Out 2001.

I don't dislike H nearly as much as you but its laughable to me that he thinks he was anywhere near The Rock or Austin's level.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Harsh, no one in wrestling is a saint outside maybe a handful of people. This Amreeka we’re talking, he isn’t a die hard Trump fan either and I can get where some of his views come from. The remarks Markhor is alluding to were made in the wake of the Paris attacks, in the heat of the moment am sure we all say all sorts and especially behind closed doors, Jim apologised after the cageside seats article, he doesn’t always do that and he is more authentic then most in the business right now. He loved that era of wrestling but that can overlook the eye he has for the business even today, what he says for the most part just makes sense and you rarely pick up on the things he can see during a match and is well ahead of so called wrestling journalists. He doesn’t hide his personal issues with others, e.g. the Bucks but as we have seen, he was telling the truth. If Jim was clouded by the territory days or was limited by that time, OVW would have been a failure, he has been a good mentor and talent coach for guys who will end up in the HOF one day. Anyway, I largely ignore the personal views of raslers in the US.

Like you, I am not someone who is that affected by the personal views of wrestlers or ex-wrestling personalities. But that said, I can completely understand if someone else is and I don't blame Markhor because truth be told, Cornette's diatribe was quite appalling and is enough of a reason for anyone to not want to listen to him again.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Good point, it’s just another big money match at this point. They are better off booking The Rock against Bron Breakker or Austin Theory, Bron is still developing so it depends the speed at which he is able to move up. But, for better or worse, even if it generates heat, it would be brilliant for them to share the stage with a megastar. Ideally, it would make things easier if one of those names is able to reach world championship level. Another good option would be The Fiend if he returns, he is already a star but has largely received the 50/50 treatment, a match / W over the Rock would strap a rocket to his back again. Realistically I think at this point, The Rock would only put over Reigns and it is a dream match, Reigns may be on a reduced schedule but the company still need an attraction for big events, Lesnar wont be around forever even though he is a freak

The thing is they can't simply book Dwayne against anyone he doesn't want to face cause he has that power that even Vince didn't try to challenge.

Think he just wants to face Roman and put him over. He has said it multiple times in interviews and even teased it in his young rock show.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I'm certain he does want to do it. WWE has basically been pushing for this idea for close to 2 years now. Initially it was supposed to take place at WM 38. But The Rock's schedule isn't merely restricted to the stuff he is starring in. There are a number of projects that he is exec. producing and producing too.

And then you also have to take into account that it's The Rock. And that he will need a significant period of time to train inorder to be ring-ready. Knowing him he probably wouldn't want to do something that he isn't 100% ready for.

That said, if I were a betting man, I would say that he will probably do the match. They've been pushing this match for way too long and even decided to do WrestleMania in LA. They wouldn't have made that decision if they weren't reasonably sure that they would get that massive level of publicity that is going to come with The Rock in that city. And on top of everything, Roman and Rock are family so if The Rock was ever going to go out of his way to do something like this, it would probably be for family.

The guy is really superhuman. He is in great shape. Even for Austin, it took like a month to prepare for his match. Plus Roman vs Rock isn't going to be a technical masterpiece, more like a brawl and hard hitting match. If he wants to do it, he'll make time for it like he did for the Smackdown episode on Fox.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don't know if you guys heard heard Triple H's comments during an interview with Ariel Helwani yesterday. But he basically dismissed AEW beating NXT in the ratings as nothing big and "they beat our developmental brand"..."good for them".

Which I find funny since HHH was the one running NXT during that time. And its not like that wasn't a major deal in WWE at the time. They literally changed their timeslot from Wednesday to Tuesday after that. I also don't think that AEW, being the small upstart wrestling promotion that it is, was ever in competition with RAW or SD!

I was willing to buy the idea that Vince didn't take AEW seriously or even consider them competition, just because he was Vince and fought (and beat) much bigger rivals over his career.

But seems like there is some genuine sour grapes on Hunter's part.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Well boys hate to say I told ya so but so far all of my predictions have been right. Right down to Dom turning heel and joining the House of Purple. Fingers crossed for the last two matches as well

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Guess I shouldn't be surprised at the outcome of the main-event. After all it was Triple H who booked it.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Guess I shouldn't be surprised at the outcome of the main-event. After all it was Triple H who booked it.

Well they've screwed Drew over again. This was the combination of Vince's worst and Hunter's worst traits of booking.

70k people and Roman getting a bigger nonsensical booking than Cena ever did. That's why they won't let anyone else get over.

 

[shaz619]

If I was to make a prediction, I’d say Reigns is going over but am like 55 in his favour. As for the rest of the card, I don’t think I care who wins or loses, poor booking.

I also struggle to understand why the World’s Collide PPV can not be held in the UK at the Motorpoint Arena in Cardiff, with it being the end of NXT UK and all, what a damn shame.

Btw did you check out the new AEW fight forever gameplay? thoughts

It was a great set up but I expected Reigns to go over. I think they are waiting on The Rock and if not him, it will be Cody who they are grooming to be that guy to be their touring champion, Drew is capable and it would have been a nice moment for him here, but I don’t know if they see him in the same vein as a Cody or Bron Breakker.

Good show but am glad I didn’t go, as a UK fan I think we all should feel short changed, there is more razz matazz on Saudi shows.

Hunter for all the worship this guy gets isn’t experienced enough putting on a big spectacle and his ego is huge, we want good wrestling but memorable moments to and Vince always gave those for the most part during big events. I’ve been to a stadium show before but this looked like a glorified house show and it was what it said on the tin without standard PPV billing.

I don’t know what Hunter was thinking putting womens match as the opener and then giving the dead spot to Matt and Seth, luckily they worked extremely hard to wake the crowd up. Sheamus and Gunther had a banger, tag match was great, the heel turn for Dominik is great for his career and Priest is a star in the making. The main event was solid / dramatic, first 10 mins had me worried it was looking like an early 2000’s Huntdeep match but they probably went off script a bit given their superior abilities.

Anyway I expected it but it’s a bit **** to send the crowd home on such a sour note really.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Well boys hate to say I told ya so but so far all of my predictions have been right. Right down to Dom turning heel and joining the House of Purple. Fingers crossed for the last two matches as well ��

Dom turning was predictable really. But should have atleast judgement day get the win for once. What was the point of a heel turn if it didn't cause them a loss.

Judgement has been booked like jobbers. No wonder no one takes them seriously.

Even ruined Tyson Fury's cameo. He could have acted as enforcer for the main event.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It was a great set up but I expected Reigns to go over. I think they are waiting on The Rock and if not him, it will be Cody who they are grooming to be that guy to be their touring champion, Drew is capable and it would have been a nice moment for him here, but I don’t know if they see him in the same vein as a Cody or Bron Breakker.

Good show but am glad I didn’t go, as a UK fan I think we all should feel short changed, there is more razz matazz on Saudi shows.

Hunter for all the worship this guy gets isn’t experienced enough putting on a big spectacle and his ego is huge, we want good wrestling but memorable moments to and Vince always gave those for the most part during big events. I’ve been to a stadium show before but this looked like a glorified house show and it was what it said on the tin without standard PPV billing.

I don’t know what Hunter was thinking putting womens match as the opener and then giving the dead spot to Matt and Seth, luckily they worked extremely hard to wake the crowd up. Sheamus and Gunther had a banger, tag match was great, the heel turn for Dominik is great for his career and Priest is a star in the making. The main event was solid / dramatic, first 10 mins had me worried it was looking like an early 2000’s Huntdeep match but they probably went off script a bit given their superior abilities.

Anyway I expected it but it’s a bit **** to send the crowd home on such a sour note really.

Disappointed by the PPV. You can't really screw up a 70k event with weekly Raw/SD type of booking.

Like I said, Dom's heel turn should have cost Edge and Mysterio the match.

Pretty sure the fans won't go home happy.

Cody may have a lot of momentum and could be the one to take down Roman but I really don't see Bron at that level yet.

 

[shaz619]

I used to think the same. But now it has become patently obvious. And if anything, FTR's comments seem to reinforce this more than anything else. I was on FightfulSelect an hour ago and apparently they did an interview with insideSport where they literally said the exact same thing that I said above: We are over...Bucks had heat...we thought we were going to have a match for all the belts at All Out. I mean that more than anything, tells me that Jim, Brian are completely right.

I don't think even Tony is stupid enough to let that happen. He is stupid...stupid enough to make these clowns EVPs but I don't see him letting their contracts run out. Besides, FTR for all intents and purposes seem to be very sour on WWE. And that includes the new darling of the internet: HHH, as well as Shawn, who buried these two with their friends at that RAW 25th anniversary show back in 2018.

Apologies for not answering your question on the game. Somehow it slipped my mind repeatedly. Yeah, I think its absolutely shocking that FTR is not in the game. The reasons it seems, has nothing to do with politics and is just down to the ineptness of the developers but still, its shocking to me that they are not in the game.

As for the gameplay, not gonna lie I really dig it. It seems to have a very arcade feel and kinda reminds me of that WWE All Stars game from the early 2010s, which was an awful game but a good arcade game. I am really interested in the story mode and how good that is because ultimately that's what I judge a wrestling game on primarily. The gameplay is absolutely integral and greatly effects your ability to enjoy the game but I think ultimately there's only so many times you can play the game for fun. The story mode gives you something deeper.

The roster size is by far the most concerning thing to me about this game right now. It is very thin and supposedly missing a number of key stars while actually having others like Emi Sakura, Abadon on the roster.

I remember the FTR comments about that but honestly it’s not that deep, I felt it was like a bit wimpy for them to cry about that issue. And looking back, overall their stint under WWE is far superior to what they’ve done in AEW and it’s a place where they’ve had to deal with far worse burials which we can agree are malicious. It wouldn’t surprise me if FTR were contacted about their contract terms recently

Agree with you on the game I am silently optimistic, if they get the gameplay right it would be amazing, there’s a lot which suggests they are trying to recreate the legendary games from N64 era but with modern tweaks, the control scheme is brilliant. I had issue with the speed but maybe that can be adjusted. It’s more of an effort then anything 2K have done, perhaps more of effort in general since SvR series. I think they will add the names via DLC, but its a shame there will be no CAW mode

 

[shaz619]

I don't know if you guys heard heard Triple H's comments during an interview with Ariel Helwani yesterday. But he basically dismissed AEW beating NXT in the ratings as nothing big and "they beat our developmental brand"..."good for them".

Which I find funny since HHH was the one running NXT during that time. And its not like that wasn't a major deal in WWE at the time. They literally changed their timeslot from Wednesday to Tuesday after that. I also don't think that AEW, being the small upstart wrestling promotion that it is, was ever in competition with RAW or SD!

I was willing to buy the idea that Vince didn't take AEW seriously or even consider them competition, just because he was Vince and fought (and beat) much bigger rivals over his career.

But seems like there is some genuine sour grapes on Hunter's part.

Also Hunter:

It’s a sprint not a marathon

Vince absolutely would have seen them as competition but he left it to Haitch who clearly is buttt hurt, his worst tendencies are always there people don’t know the real him

P.S he is also responsible for what happened Chyna

 

[shaz619]

Disappointed by the PPV. You can't really screw up a 70k event with weekly Raw/SD type of booking.

Like I said, Dom's heel turn should have cost Edge and Mysterio the match.

Pretty sure the fans won't go home happy.

Cody may have a lot of momentum and could be the one to take down Roman but I really don't see Bron at that level yet.

WWE have done better stadium shows then that without the traditional PPV names, it’s a slap in the face of their most hardcore fans outside America. Yeah. he isn’t but they are moulding that guy, I don’t think they look at Drew the same way as a carry the torch and go. on the road, but more of a supporting act

 

[BunnyRabbit]

WWE have done better stadium shows then that without the traditional PPV names, it’s a slap in the face of their most hardcore fans outside America. Yeah. he isn’t but they are moulding that guy, I don’t think they look at Drew the same way as a carry the torch and go. on the road, but more of a supporting act

Cause sadly Drew had the best storyline and progression on the road to Mania 2020 after that epic Rumble victory. That story was booked and told much much better than Roman vs Brock or Seth vs Brock. And he ticks all the boxes that one needs from a top guy.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] watched an episode of nxt after 6 or 7 months. The guy that I'm actually most excited to see is actually Jordan Devlin now known as JD McDonagh. He was always a very good wrestler but the gimmick change has given so much personality to him and he is so effortlessly playing that character. Looks like a natural on mic. Think he has much better chance to be successful than Bate who despite being a better in ring worker doesn't really have a gimmick or personality to catch others' attention.
Another guy I like is Axiom/A-Kid. The guy is spanish so will probably have problem in promos. but they have given him sort of a superhero/luchador gimmick but he looks pretty cool in it. A very good up and comer IMO.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

WWE have done better stadium shows then that without the traditional PPV names, it’s a slap in the face of their most hardcore fans outside America. Yeah. he isn’t but they are moulding that guy, I don’t think they look at Drew the same way as a carry the torch and go. on the road, but more of a supporting act

Last time WWE did a stadium show in the UK they had their top UK star go over one of the biggest and most protected stars in their company: Bret freakin' Hart. Who even in 1992 was a big star, and on the way to becoming the face of their company. They didn't want to disappoint their hardcore UK fanbase and the 80,000+ who paid good money to see the PPV at Wembley. This felt like such an anti-thesis of that. And the post-show felt such cringe/desperation to get some kind of pop from the crowd.

Felt bad for Tyson Fury who had to partake in that nonsense. But feel worse for Drew who now has zero credibility as a babyface because everything he has said he would do in the last year, he has failed at. Way to make a star.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It was a great set up but I expected Reigns to go over. I think they are waiting on The Rock and if not him, it will be Cody who they are grooming to be that guy to be their touring champion, Drew is capable and it would have been a nice moment for him here, but I don’t know if they see him in the same vein as a Cody or Bron Breakker.

Good show but am glad I didn’t go, as a UK fan I think we all should feel short changed, there is more razz matazz on Saudi shows.

Hunter for all the worship this guy gets isn’t experienced enough putting on a big spectacle and his ego is huge, we want good wrestling but memorable moments to and Vince always gave those for the most part during big events. I’ve been to a stadium show before but this looked like a glorified house show and it was what it said on the tin without standard PPV billing.

I don’t know what Hunter was thinking putting womens match as the opener and then giving the dead spot to Matt and Seth, luckily they worked extremely hard to wake the crowd up. Sheamus and Gunther had a banger, tag match was great, the heel turn for Dominik is great for his career and Priest is a star in the making. The main event was solid / dramatic, first 10 mins had me worried it was looking like an early 2000’s Huntdeep match but they probably went off script a bit given their superior abilities.

Anyway I expected it but it’s a bit **** to send the crowd home on such a sour note really.

Gunter v Sheamus was unreal. And Riddle and Rollins tried their best to put on a good and different match eventhough they were in the death spot and the crowd was basically singing Rollins's theme for most of the match. Even Mysterio/Edge v Judgement Day was not a bad match and I thought fairly good for a 12 minute match. I even dug the heel turn at the end which they have been teasing for weeks.

But other than that I thought that overall this PPV was largely a disappointment. McIntyre should have gone over or not have been put in the position of losing. I mean its not like the British Bulldog became WWE Champion at SummerSlam 1992. But he did win in the main-event against one of the top stars in the company. This felt pathetic. After all that build-up...all those video packages...that crazy reaction from the crowd, he still can't win.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Cause sadly Drew had the best storyline and progression on the road to Mania 2020 after that epic Rumble victory. That story was booked and told much much better than Roman vs Brock or Seth vs Brock. And he ticks all the boxes that one needs from a top guy.

[delete repeated comment]

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Well they've screwed Drew over again. This was the combination of Vince's worst and Hunter's worst traits of booking.

70k people and Roman getting a bigger nonsensical booking than Cena ever did. That's why they won't let anyone else get over.

McIntyre's booking since Mania 37 has been absolutely shocking.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Btw what did you make of CM Punk's promo on the go-home Dynamite? Personally I think this might have been the best promo of his entire babyface run in AEW so far.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I remember the FTR comments about that but honestly it’s not that deep, I felt it was like a bit wimpy for them to cry about that issue. And looking back, overall their stint under WWE is far superior to what they’ve done in AEW and it’s a place where they’ve had to deal with far worse burials which we can agree are malicious. It wouldn’t surprise me if FTR were contacted about their contract terms recently

Agree with you on the game I am silently optimistic, if they get the gameplay right it would be amazing, there’s a lot which suggests they are trying to recreate the legendary games from N64 era but with modern tweaks, the control scheme is brilliant. I had issue with the speed but maybe that can be adjusted. It’s more of an effort then anything 2K have done, perhaps more of effort in general since SvR series. I think they will add the names via DLC, but its a shame there will be no CAW mode

We've talked about this. And I can't say that I agree. Tag team wrestling in WWE just feels meaningless to me. Even if you win the tag team belts, its means nothing. And its been that way for the last 20 or so years. Yeah its a bigger show and a bigger stage and more eye-balls are on you, but I don't recall them having anything even close to the kind of matches they were having on NXT or here, as SmackDown or RAW Tag Team Champions.

You could make the argument that their NXT run was more memorable because of the series of matches they had with DIY and American Alpha, but I would still put the matches they have had with The Briscoes and The Bucks above anything else they have done. Although the 2/3 falls with DIY is right up there for me.

Say what you will about AEW but tag team wrestling is hot there. The crowd is genuinely excited for it and pops for it big time whether its guys like FTR or even teams like The Bucks or Lucha Bros. I never saw FTR get the kind of monster pops they have been getting on AEW for the last few months on RAW or SD!

Wait what? I heard that there is a CAW mode and that you can create a wrestler and play career mode as them? Did they change that?

I will say this, I am more excited for this game then I have been for a wrestling game in a long, long time. Let's hope it doesn't disappoint.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It was a great set up but I expected Reigns to go over. I think they are waiting on The Rock and if not him, it will be Cody who they are grooming to be that guy to be their touring champion, Drew is capable and it would have been a nice moment for him here, but I don’t know if they see him in the same vein as a Cody or Bron Breakker.

Good show but am glad I didn’t go, as a UK fan I think we all should feel short changed, there is more razz matazz on Saudi shows.

Hunter for all the worship this guy gets isn’t experienced enough putting on a big spectacle and his ego is huge, we want good wrestling but memorable moments to and Vince always gave those for the most part during big events. I’ve been to a stadium show before but this looked like a glorified house show and it was what it said on the tin without standard PPV billing.

I don’t know what Hunter was thinking putting womens match as the opener and then giving the dead spot to Matt and Seth, luckily they worked extremely hard to wake the crowd up. Sheamus and Gunther had a banger, tag match was great, the heel turn for Dominik is great for his career and Priest is a star in the making. The main event was solid / dramatic, first 10 mins had me worried it was looking like an early 2000’s Huntdeep match but they probably went off script a bit given their superior abilities.

Anyway I expected it but it’s a bit **** to send the crowd home on such a sour note really.

HHH has made it his mission to make women's wrestling important again. Which means he will be shoving it down our throats even if the talent in question is average at best. Worst thing on the show was by far Liv Morgan v Shayna Baszler. The difference between the two was night and day. On one hand you had a legit MMA badass who could probably beat up some of the men on that roster in a shoot. On the other hand you had Liv Morgan, who had the absolute worst kicks and punches that I have seen from a main roster wrestler in a long time. Even if you ignore the size and buy into her as an underdog, she cannot work. Every move she did here looked fake and choreographed. The finish came out of nowhere and made no sense considering Baszler had dominated 90% of the match and only 10 minutes had gone by. This was a great moment to put the belt on Baszler and set up Baszler v Rousey: which would actually bring some interest to women's wrestling. Instead Hunter chose to continue with Morgan...

 

[shaz619]

We've talked about this. And I can't say that I agree. Tag team wrestling in WWE just feels meaningless to me. Even if you win the tag team belts, its means nothing. And its been that way for the last 20 or so years. Yeah its a bigger show and a bigger stage and more eye-balls are on you, but I don't recall them having anything even close to the kind of matches they were having on NXT or here, as SmackDown or RAW Tag Team Champions.

You could make the argument that their NXT run was more memorable because of the series of matches they had with DIY and American Alpha, but I would still put the matches they have had with The Briscoes and The Bucks above anything else they have done. Although the 2/3 falls with DIY is right up there for me.

Say what you will about AEW but tag team wrestling is hot there. The crowd is genuinely excited for it and pops for it big time whether its guys like FTR or even teams like The Bucks or Lucha Bros. I never saw FTR get the kind of monster pops they have been getting on AEW for the last few months on RAW or SD!

Wait what? I heard that there is a CAW mode and that you can create a wrestler and play career mode as them? Did they change that?

I will say this, I am more excited for this game then I have been for a wrestling game in a long, long time. Let's hope it doesn't disappoint.

NXT is a part of WWE though so when I said overall I was taking that into consideration. What they did under the WWE umbrella is what got them signed in the first place and to be specific what they achieved in NXT, it’s a place where they took their character development to the next level to and took advantage of the various resources and people available to them. Yeah sure they had a few good matches when they left but overall as a long list of excellent matches, individual development and support from the higher ups it’s not even a comparison really. They’ve been treated like dung in AEW and promoted like bums, their burials have been malicious due to the politicking backstage. AEW’s tag team division goes full retar!d so many teams and its one big spot fest, no substance or quality, just quantity, its all about the bucks and building them up, there was some promise early on with other teams but they are not over despite being on national television weekly.

I don’t believe there will be a CAW but maybe for the next game, am not sure the reasoning as its pretty standard, they are probably worried about all the WWE CAW creations

 

[shaz619]

HHH has made it his mission to make women's wrestling important again. Which means he will be shoving it down our throats even if the talent in question is average at best. Worst thing on the show was by far Liv Morgan v Shayna Baszler. The difference between the two was night and day. On one hand you had a legit MMA badass who could probably beat up some of the men on that roster in a shoot. On the other hand you had Liv Morgan, who had the absolute worst kicks and punches that I have seen from a main roster wrestler in a long time. Even if you ignore the size and buy into her as an underdog, she cannot work. Every move she did here looked fake and choreographed. The finish came out of nowhere and made no sense considering Baszler had dominated 90% of the match and only 10 minutes had gone by. This was a great moment to put the belt on Baszler and set up Baszler v Rousey: which would actually bring some interest to women's wrestling. Instead Hunter chose to continue with Morgan...

That singles match between those two women was ok, Liv showed some improvement but needs a new finisher and she has been training in jiu jitsu with Riddle plus is super over and good looking so minority of people who dislike her have to accept her run, Bazzler is horrible to look at and not good enough as a character to carry the strap weekly on a program followed by millions, I was starting to wonder if Haitch is thick enough to have her destroy Liv or have Liv win by a fluke but thing is Bazzler isn’t someone like KO, this isn’t a KO/Ezkeil situation, Bazzler is only revered by the indy scene and wont ever be a big star and her promos are cringe. But that 6 woman tag was disgusting, they are talented obviously but that was horrible and poor judgement, no Sasha or Naomi either, so I don’t get why it was in the opening slot.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Btw what did you make of CM Punk's promo on the go-home Dynamite? Personally I think this might have been the best promo of his entire babyface run in AEW so far.

I know some complained about how Ace couldn’t have logically helped him find his fire. But this run in general as a far as pure baby face promos are concerned is one of the best I’ve ever experienced, maybe what compares is Shawn ironically when he first came back in 2002 in his feud with Haitch. But this is some of the best baby face work I’ve seen this century. I loved that promo before the title match they had on Dynamite but this was fantastic as well, I don’t think anything will top that promo when he first came back imo but this run has been incredible, I think he should lose in a good fight and chase for a bit, but maybe they will pull the trigger on a turn

 

[shaz619]

Gunter v Sheamus was unreal. And Riddle and Rollins tried their best to put on a good and different match eventhough they were in the death spot and the crowd was basically singing Rollins's theme for most of the match. Even Mysterio/Edge v Judgement Day was not a bad match and I thought fairly good for a 12 minute match. I even dug the heel turn at the end which they have been teasing for weeks.

But other than that I thought that overall this PPV was largely a disappointment. McIntyre should have gone over or not have been put in the position of losing. I mean its not like the British Bulldog became WWE Champion at SummerSlam 1992. But he did win in the main-event against one of the top stars in the company. This felt pathetic. After all that build-up...all those video packages...that crazy reaction from the crowd, he still can't win.

They treated the UK fans like crap and the singing was pathetic, Hunter is lucky Drew is such a nice guy. To WWE Drew winning doesn’t add much and it would be more of doing the change for the sake of the UK fans, while I think that would still be justified for a big show, there’s more to get out of Drew then that anyway. But this was another example of Hunter going retar! because he could have booked Sheamus to go over in the main event slot. This is like Vince booking the streak to end then having Batista win the titles to close WM 30. But this was a glorified house show and I knew that but they misled everyone else

 

[shaz619]

What did they actually do for the home fans? they couldn’t even get Broken Dreams right, just stuck it on the big screen. I would have had the bag pipes playing and then broken dreams after that.

Sheamus winning with the Celtic Cross would have been epic to.

There was no appearance from Wade Barett either, imagine the pop for I’ve got some Bad News! he is under contract isn’t he and lives hours away

They don’t have the saudi budget for these shows but there are small touches which would have added to the event.

Drew came out with the sword looking like a clown

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What did they actually do for the home fans? they couldn’t even get Broken Dreams right, just stuck it on the big screen. I would have had the bag pipes playing and then broken dreams after that.

Sheamus winning with the Celtic Cross would have been epic to.

There was no appearance from Wade Barett either, imagine the pop for I’ve got some Bad News! he is under contract isn’t he and lives hours away

They don’t have the saudi budget for these shows but there are small touches which would have added to the event.

Drew came out with the sword looking like a clown

I wouldn't have put Sheamus over just because after this show is done they have to go back to the states where Sheamus is just another guy on the roster. For me, Sheamus v Gunther was done to perfection. It was one of those Bret in Canada situations where Sheamus was over like gangbusters. Gunther was the perfect heel The match was incredible and both guys had the crowd eating out of their hands. Sheamus had an amazing showing but in the end the right guy won.

What they could have done, if they didn't want to take the belt off Roman was book McIntyre in another big match. I don't even think it would have been absurd to bring back the European Championship temporarily (unify it with the IC or US title later). With the right promotion and build-up, McIntyre v Sheamus or McIntyre v Gunter for the European Championship would have blown the roof off this place too. But they didn't have their heart in it the same way they do with the Saudi shows.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I know some complained about how Ace couldn’t have logically helped him find his fire. But this run in general as a far as pure baby face promos are concerned is one of the best I’ve ever experienced, maybe what compares is Shawn ironically when he first came back in 2002 in his feud with Haitch. But this is some of the best baby face work I’ve seen this century. I loved that promo before the title match they had on Dynamite but this was fantastic as well, I don’t think anything will top that promo when he first came back imo but this run has been incredible, I think he should lose in a good fight and chase for a bit, but maybe they will pull the trigger on a turn

Ace was the kind of the glue that held this together. I don't know why people are complaining because to me it wasn't illogical at all. It felt cool and alive and real. Something you just don't see enough of in pro-wrestling these days. You could tell both guys believed what they were saying. Heck, old Ace was so into it that he even dropped the f bomb lol.

To each their own I guess, but for me, the way Punk just turned on here after Ace's motivational speech was absolutely amazing. That's the kind of babyface fire that no one in the business today is capable of exuding. And credit to Moxley as well who was able to act like a heel while staying in character as a babyface.

He acted exactly like a guy who just destroyed CM Punk last week in under 3 minutes should have acted. Overall, both did an incredible job of selling the PPV. Punk even more so. Pumped and excited for the PPV

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What did they actually do for the home fans? they couldn’t even get Broken Dreams right, just stuck it on the big screen. I would have had the bag pipes playing and then broken dreams after that.

Sheamus winning with the Celtic Cross would have been epic to.

There was no appearance from Wade Barett either, imagine the pop for I’ve got some Bad News! he is under contract isn’t he and lives hours away

They don’t have the saudi budget for these shows but there are small touches which would have added to the event.

Drew came out with the sword looking like a clown

Listening to Broken Dreams was funny for me lol. It brought back memories of SvR 2011. Since that's what I associated that song with most.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That singles match between those two women was ok, Liv showed some improvement but needs a new finisher and she has been training in jiu jitsu with Riddle plus is super over and good looking so minority of people who dislike her have to accept her run, Bazzler is horrible to look at and not good enough as a character to carry the strap weekly on a program followed by millions, I was starting to wonder if Haitch is thick enough to have her destroy Liv or have Liv win by a fluke but thing is Bazzler isn’t someone like KO, this isn’t a KO/Ezkeil situation, Bazzler is only revered by the indy scene and wont ever be a big star and her promos are cringe. But that 6 woman tag was disgusting, they are talented obviously but that was horrible and poor judgement, no Sasha or Naomi either, so I don’t get why it was in the opening slot.

Baszler can be a very good monster heel with the right push. I thought she was excellent in NXT. You don't even need to have her cut promos. Just put a capable manager with her. Her in-ring ability is 50 times that of Liv Morgan who has precious little to offer besides her looks. Problem is that Baszler has been booked into oblivion ever since she stepped onto the main-roster and that kind of consistent bad booking is not easy to shake off. But if Hunter is serious about rehabilitating this women's division, the least he can do is push the right talent.

Liv may be over now and tbh a large part of the WWE audience is actually thick enough to buy into this basic af babyface template, but I find her to be a joke when compared with Becky, Charlotte, Rousey, Bayley, Bianca, Baszler, Natalya. Interms of size, in-ring ability and personality. I think ultimately not everyone is Rey Mysterio. And there's only so long you can get by with "I'm gonna overcome all these odds because I got heart!".

 

[shaz619]

Baszler can be a very good monster heel with the right push. I thought she was excellent in NXT. You don't even need to have her cut promos. Just put a capable manager with her. Her in-ring ability is 50 times that of Liv Morgan who has precious little to offer besides her looks. Problem is that Baszler has been booked into oblivion ever since she stepped onto the main-roster and that kind of consistent bad booking is not easy to shake off. But if Hunter is serious about rehabilitating this women's division, the least he can do is push the right talent.

Liv may be over now and tbh a large part of the WWE audience is actually thick enough to buy into this basic af babyface template, but I find her to be a joke when compared with Becky, Charlotte, Rousey, Bayley, Bianca, Baszler, Natalya. Interms of size, in-ring ability and personality. I think ultimately not everyone is Rey Mysterio. And there's only so long you can get by with "I'm gonna overcome all these odds because I got heart!".

Baszler is the right talent for bingo hall and hipster smark crowd, she is not going to draw flies to any arena or be that heel whos merch gets sold out, I think she is more suited to AEW then a global company tbh they can have her rag doll their shi!!y division, well not optimistic about that one either when Thunder Rosa should have been that person

 

[shaz619]

I wouldn't have put Sheamus over just because after this show is done they have to go back to the states where Sheamus is just another guy on the roster. For me, Sheamus v Gunther was done to perfection. It was one of those Bret in Canada situations where Sheamus was over like gangbusters. Gunther was the perfect heel The match was incredible and both guys had the crowd eating out of their hands. Sheamus had an amazing showing but in the end the right guy won.

What they could have done, if they didn't want to take the belt off Roman was book McIntyre in another big match. I don't even think it would have been absurd to bring back the European Championship temporarily (unify it with the IC or US title later). With the right promotion and build-up, McIntyre v Sheamus or McIntyre v Gunter for the European Championship would have blown the roof off this place too. But they didn't have their heart in it the same way they do with the Saudi shows.

If you are doing a stadium show yeah why do it if you’re not giving the fans anything, sure Gunther should be champion but I’d have been ok with the change here, he is not doing the undefeated foreign monster gimmick and it was an epic match, they could have protected him in the finish. Sheamus isn’t just another bum on the roster, they could do all sorts here given we have the GOAT promoter right, completely **** the bed bro, this was an arena show not stadium

 

[shaz619]

Ace was the kind of the glue that held this together. I don't know why people are complaining because to me it wasn't illogical at all. It felt cool and alive and real. Something you just don't see enough of in pro-wrestling these days. You could tell both guys believed what they were saying. Heck, old Ace was so into it that he even dropped the f bomb lol.

To each their own I guess, but for me, the way Punk just turned on here after Ace's motivational speech was absolutely amazing. That's the kind of babyface fire that no one in the business today is capable of exuding. And credit to Moxley as well who was able to act like a heel while staying in character as a babyface.

He acted exactly like a guy who just destroyed CM Punk last week in under 3 minutes should have acted. Overall, both did an incredible job of selling the PPV. Punk even more so. Pumped and excited for the PPV

No one can touch Punk on the mic, this ATG level consistently, if there was ever a doubt it’s not anymore. It is harder as a face but he is doing the best work of his career imo vastly superior to 2011

 

[shaz619]

Baszler can be a very good monster heel with the right push. I thought she was excellent in NXT. You don't even need to have her cut promos. Just put a capable manager with her. Her in-ring ability is 50 times that of Liv Morgan who has precious little to offer besides her looks. Problem is that Baszler has been booked into oblivion ever since she stepped onto the main-roster and that kind of consistent bad booking is not easy to shake off. But if Hunter is serious about rehabilitating this women's division, the least he can do is push the right talent.

Liv may be over now and tbh a large part of the WWE audience is actually thick enough to buy into this basic af babyface template, but I find her to be a joke when compared with Becky, Charlotte, Rousey, Bayley, Bianca, Baszler, Natalya. Interms of size, in-ring ability and personality. I think ultimately not everyone is Rey Mysterio. And there's only so long you can get by with "I'm gonna overcome all these odds because I got heart!".

Thing is she is doing the numbers to, you see the autistic AEW fanbase who do a circle jerk over their talent like Garcia, the tag division, countless other overhyped bums, those guys lose viewership and are no where near as over or sell half the merch, as long as someone pulls in the business they wont be pushed aside unless they deepthroat TK like the Bucks do

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

If you are doing a stadium show yeah why do it if you’re not giving the fans anything, sure Gunther should be champion but I’d have been ok with the change here, he is not doing the undefeated foreign monster gimmick and it was an epic match, they could have protected him in the finish. Sheamus isn’t just another bum on the roster, they could do all sorts here given we have the GOAT promoter right, completely **** the bed bro, this was an arena show not stadium

He is though. What major title has he won in recent years? I can't even think of a major feud he had been involved in, in the last decade or so. Even when he last became WWE Champion he came off as Triple H's lackey. These days he comes across as a character from a Dickens novel. Yeah he can wrestle hard-hitting matches with certain guys, but I've never gotten the hype around him. Another guy who probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful as he has been if he wasn't Triple H's gym buddy.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

No one can touch Punk on the mic, this ATG level consistently, if there was ever a doubt it’s not anymore. It is harder as a face but he is doing the best work of his career imo vastly superior to 2011

Couldn't agree more. I think the creative freedom that he has here and the experience he has gained from all those years is the difference. 2011-12 run when you think about it was actually a massive disappointment because it was essentially all downhill once Kevin Nash walked into the ring at SummerSlam. This run though just keeps giving you more and more to sink your teeth into.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Thing is she is doing the numbers to, you see the autistic AEW fanbase who do a circle jerk over their talent like Garcia, the tag division, countless other overhyped bums, those guys lose viewership and are no where near as over or sell half the merch, as long as someone pulls in the business they wont be pushed aside unless they deepthroat TK like the Bucks do

Baszler is the right talent for bingo hall and hipster smark crowd, she is not going to draw flies to any arena or be that heel whos merch gets sold out, I think she is more suited to AEW then a global company tbh they can have her rag doll their shi!!y division, well not optimistic about that one either when Thunder Rosa should have been that person

Regardless of what your personal opinion of her may be, at the end of the day she is an ex-UFC fighter who can wrestle too. The kind of legitimacy she brings to women's wrestling cannot be understated. And I don't think you can accurately make an assessment of whether she is good or bat for ratings without providing her with the right push. And in a company where women like Alexa Bliss, Nia Jax and Liv Morgan have been been pushed at the top, I don't think its too much of a stretch give her one as well.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Thing is she is doing the numbers to, you see the autistic AEW fanbase who do a circle jerk over their talent like Garcia, the tag division, countless other overhyped bums, those guys lose viewership and are no where near as over or sell half the merch, as long as someone pulls in the business they wont be pushed aside unless they deepthroat TK like the Bucks do

Well there is a big difference between the platform both companies have as well. WWE has a much bigger captive audience. AEW does not. I mean do you really think Liv Morgan wouldn't be a massive ratings flop in AEW? Because I know she would. And I'm sorry but her in-ring ability is just tragic. Forget Baszler. She had a downright embarrassing match against Natalya on SmackDown a month ago in which made headlines online because some thought both were shooting which is why the match was so disjointed and illogical. Cornette basically picked it apart and essentially pointed out how it was Morgan who was the reason the match was so bad because everything she was doing was a rehearsed move, executed badly, whereas Natty was just trying to work instinctually.

 

[shaz619]

He is though. What major title has he won in recent years? I can't even think of a major feud he had been involved in, in the last decade or so. Even when he last became WWE Champion he came off as Triple H's lackey. These days he comes across as a character from a Dickens novel. Yeah he can wrestle hard-hitting matches with certain guys, but I've never gotten the hype around him. Another guy who probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful as he has been if he wasn't Triple H's gym buddy.

That’s what Gunther would be right now to though in that case because all he can do is wrestle hard hitting matches, retrded smarks nut over this guy because they are familiar with him from the US indy scene when Sheamus has been doing the same a lot longer and in front of more then 15 people at a time, to bend over for one and berate the other shows how deformed smarks are. If Sheamus got this far because of Huntdeep, then Gunther must be the guy he likes to give hand massages to down below at this moment in time

 

[shaz619]

Well there is a big difference between the platform both companies have as well. WWE has a much bigger captive audience. AEW does not. I mean do you really think Liv Morgan wouldn't be a massive ratings flop in AEW? Because I know she would. And I'm sorry but her in-ring ability is just tragic. Forget Baszler. She had a downright embarrassing match against Natalya on SmackDown a month ago in which made headlines online because some thought both were shooting which is why the match was so disjointed and illogical. Cornette basically picked it apart and essentially pointed out how it was Morgan who was the reason the match was so bad because everything she was doing was a rehearsed move, executed badly, whereas Natty was just trying to work instinctually.

She couldn’t do any worse then that tran sexual the AEW hipsters like to get their thing out for, she would be a flop in AEW because that audience is full of hypocritical liberal extremists that as Punk mentioned have never been laid, it’s a niche audience, their ceiling at the moment is very low and panders to the bingo hall lot and what not, why else would they bring in HIV like Gage and tarnish the image of Legends like Jericho who is having his worst run, in that place talent essentially has to dumb itself down for their fans, bit like Mox and his blade jobs

 

[shaz619]

Regardless of what your personal opinion of her may be, at the end of the day she is an ex-UFC fighter who can wrestle too. The kind of legitimacy she brings to women's wrestling cannot be understated. And I don't think you can accurately make an assessment of whether she is good or bat for ratings without providing her with the right push. And in a company where women like Alexa Bliss, Nia Jax and Liv Morgan have been been pushed at the top, I don't think its too much of a stretch give her one as well.

She’s getting a push though now isn’t she thanks to Huntdeep, her services are being best utilised to be Liv’s special jobber. Jobbing should not be looked down upon when she’s an ex-UFC who can wrestle right, this is a positive for Shayna on the main roster

 

[shaz619]

Couldn't agree more. I think the creative freedom that he has here and the experience he has gained from all those years is the difference. 2011-12 run when you think about it was actually a massive disappointment because it was essentially all downhill once Kevin Nash walked into the ring at SummerSlam. This run though just keeps giving you more and more to sink your teeth into.

Basically, Darth Burius treated CM Punk like a hoe or a zoot. Once he was done with him, he had to pass him to his buddy Kevin Nash. Punk was still gold on the mic but I think he was too angry but it worked for a tweener persona, now he is more relaxed happier, a genuine student of the game and he is that classic baby face who can get the audience to throw the babies in the air just like in the territory days, every subtle expression, movement, use of language, getting the crowd down and then back up, getting them to cheer for him when they are meh it’s simply outstanding and he is doing it in-front of the autistic lot which makes his work even more special. As you said those experiences are paying dividends but also he is tapping into history and what made him love the industry, his experience acting is also playing a part

 

[shaz619]

Wow Punk just buried AEW balls deep and he did it while TK was sat right next to him like a little hoe LOL people who got bodied:

- Balding Buck and non- Balding buck
- Kenny Ofaga / Olivier
- Adam numb nut Page
- Colt please pay my bills Cobana

Heck even Jericho who doesn’t like Punk said how going into business for yourself would never be tolerated under Vince.

This was brutal, a classic pro wrestling main event followed by one of the all time great press conferences LOL

Can’t wait for the JC experience podcast )

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That’s what Gunther would be right now to though in that case because all he can do is wrestle hard hitting matches, retrded smarks nut over this guy because they are familiar with him from the US indy scene when Sheamus has been doing the same a lot longer and in front of more then 15 people at a time, to bend over for one and berate the other shows how deformed smarks are. If Sheamus got this far because of Huntdeep, then Gunther must be the guy he likes to give hand massages to down below at this moment in time

Bro come now, forget about the smarks or anyone else. Gunther is in a league of his own because the style he wrestles is simple but completely unique and his own because no one is doing it these days. He is the definition of less is more and genuinely comes across as someone who could have wrestled in any era of wrestling because more than anything, his style is realistic. The same goes not apply to Sheamus who 80% of the time does the exact same match move for move.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Wow Punk just buried AEW balls deep and he did it while TK was sat right next to him like a little hoe LOL people who got bodied:

- Balding Buck and non- Balding buck
- Kenny Ofaga / Olivier
- Adam numb nut Page
- Colt please pay my bills Cobana

Heck even Jericho who doesn’t like Punk said how going into business for yourself would never be tolerated under Vince.

This was brutal, a classic pro wrestling main event followed by one of the all time great press conferences LOL

Can’t wait for the JC experience podcast )

Haven't seen All Out yet so plz don't spoil. Just reading your post is giving me an unREAL desire to do a quick Google search. But I will try to hold myself back and wait till I see the PPV.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Wow Punk just buried AEW balls deep and he did it while TK was sat right next to him like a little hoe LOL people who got bodied:

- Balding Buck and non- Balding buck
- Kenny Ofaga / Olivier
- Adam numb nut Page
- Colt please pay my bills Cobana

Heck even Jericho who doesn’t like Punk said how going into business for yourself would never be tolerated under Vince.

This was brutal, a classic pro wrestling main event followed by one of the all time great press conferences LOL

Can’t wait for the JC experience podcast )

Very much looking forward to unpacking/discussing all this with you. Partly because I have a feeling that we will be agreeing on and howling at many of the same things.

 

[shaz619]

Bro come now, forget about the smarks or anyone else. Gunther is in a league of his own because the style he wrestles is simple but completely unique and his own because no one is doing it these days. He is the definition of less is more and genuinely comes across as someone who could have wrestled in any era of wrestling because more than anything, his style is realistic. The same goes not apply to Sheamus who 80% of the time does the exact same match move for move.

Gunther is special but many forget Sheamus is working the same European style, he has made it work for North American audiences under the WWE umbrella but he can work stiff to, as we saw here. Gunther has had many great matches but this is arguably his best, big stadium and the perfect dance partner, if people watched Sheamus on the European indy scene they would worship him like a God, if there were doubts about his work then this match should have put those to rest among those who only know about his WWE run because this guy has been excellent despite not having the freedom of an indy show or working in PWG or NXT, but he has his own resume we appreciate outside the E here in the UK, I could say the same about Gunther if I dumb him down and say it’s just powerbombs and chops then but it’s not like that and Sheamus is the dance partner which made us excited for this match, it’s one of those rare instances he was allowed to show more layers to his bow but watching him all these years he passes the eye test and has a great resume as is and has been able to stay close to the top of the card which not many can say coming out of Europe

 

[shaz619]

Haven't seen All Out yet so plz don't spoil. Just reading your post is giving me an unREAL desire to do a quick Google search. But I will try to hold myself back and wait till I see the PPV.

Very much looking forward to unpacking/discussing all this with you. Partly because I have a feeling that we will be agreeing on and howling at many of the same things.

I wont spoil that’s why didn’t quote you but man am excited to get your thoughts )

 

[sweep_shot]

Wow Punk just buried AEW balls deep and he did it while TK was sat right next to him like a little hoe LOL people who got bodied:

- Balding Buck and non- Balding buck
- Kenny Ofaga / Olivier
- Adam numb nut Page
- Colt please pay my bills Cobana

Heck even Jericho who doesn’t like Punk said how going into business for yourself would never be tolerated under Vince.

This was brutal, a classic pro wrestling main event followed by one of the all time great press conferences LOL

Can’t wait for the JC experience podcast )

Just watched this on YouTube.

CM Punk was gold.

 

[shaz619]

Just watched this on YouTube.

CM Punk was gold.

A big chunk of fickle dweebs who fell at his feet a year ago now going the other way after be exposed the truth, am seeing the usual deplorable lot recycle that old hhh/punk promo from SD again and again, these so called modern smarks are the worst thing in wrestling.

One thing dawned on me watching everything unfold, CM Punk is still the biggest star in wrestling, to cause such a stir in 10-15 minutes or so is nuts

 

[BunnyRabbit]

A big chunk of fickle dweebs who fell at his feet a year ago now going the other way after be exposed the truth, am seeing the usual deplorable lot recycle that old hhh/punk promo from SD again and again, these so called modern smarks are the worst thing in wrestling.

One thing dawned on me watching everything unfold, CM Punk is still the biggest star in wrestling, to cause such a stir in 10-15 minutes or so is nuts

Well that clip tells you how much of a chaos the locker room of AEW is right now and how much out of control everything is and Tony is just there clueless. Apparently there was a fight between Punk,Ace and Bucks plus Kenny in the locker room post press. Kenny bit and pulled Punk's hair or something like that. It's funny as heck to read.

The EVP's are basically just indy level NWO both on and off screen.

Do these guys have any locker room leader to keep things in order? They have vets like Jericho, Bryan, Christian, Henry, Wight who can probably keep things in order but seems like there's no direction or anything there.

Testament to Taker who kept the dressing room from falling out in presence of legit dangerous guys for well over a decade that too in a travelling company where wrestlers are performing 3-4 days per week.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Matt Hardy tweeted a pic with Page afterwards indicating he is siding with the Bucks.

 

[shaz619]

Well that clip tells you how much of a chaos the locker room of AEW is right now and how much out of control everything is and Tony is just there clueless. Apparently there was a fight between Punk,Ace and Bucks plus Kenny in the locker room post press. Kenny bit and pulled Punk's hair or something like that. It's funny as heck to read.

The EVP's are basically just indy level NWO both on and off screen.

Do these guys have any locker room leader to keep things in order? They have vets like Jericho, Bryan, Christian, Henry, Wight who can probably keep things in order but seems like there's no direction or anything there.

Testament to Taker who kept the dressing room from falling out in presence of legit dangerous guys for well over a decade that too in a travelling company where wrestlers are performing 3-4 days per week.

It tells me how fickle wrestling fans are, worshipped Punk when he spoke his peace under the WWE but now he is public enemy number one again for doing the same, but it hurts their fragile sensitivities because it’s the truth about AEW or the lot which are still sour he left Vince and co

They are a new company and have talent which don’t respect the history of the business, but am sure Jericho does his best, he highlighted how going into business for yourself wouldn’t be accepted under Vince as per multiple reports.

Not even outlaw mud show level NWO for sure.

I think there is legit heat between Punk and Page, but the rest I reckon is a worked shoot the way am reading the tale of events

 

[shaz619]

Redwood is probably watching the entire PPV, I only watched the main event and most of the presser

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It tells me how fickle wrestling fans are, worshipped Punk when he spoke his peace under the WWE but now he is public enemy number one again for doing the same, but it hurts their fragile sensitivities because it’s the truth about AEW or the lot which are still sour he left Vince and co

They are a new company and have talent which don’t respect the history of the business, but am sure Jericho does his best, he highlighted how going into business for yourself wouldn’t be accepted under Vince as per multiple reports.

Not even outlaw mud show level NWO for sure.

I think there is legit heat between Punk and Page, but the rest I reckon is a worked shoot the way am reading the tale of events

Don't really know if it's a worked shoot or not, whatever it is, doesn't put the company in good light even if it manages to draw some ratings.

Everyone knows Punk doesn't hold himself back and he keeps grudges. The whole AEW hardcore fanbase, Punk's fanbase and Sasha's hardcore fans are literally yes or no people. Either you say they are the greatest and should be at the top all the time or you're the worst person ever.

On the other hand, Strowman returned to WWE. Which I think is the most sensible rehiring till now cause he's actually over with the casual fans and WWE has been lacking top card guys. A better hiring than Kross IMO.

KO is back to being a full fledged face which I think is good as booing the guy is pretty difficult thing to do considering how entertaining and witty he is.

The Edge/Mysterios/Judgement Day feud is horrific. But man can Edge act. He is doing everything perfectly. He's definitely in top form. His selling of the low blow from Dom was as good acting as you will see in pro wrestling.

MVP's been missing from the TV since Trips took over which is actually disappointing considering how great a presence he has been since his return in last 2 years. His promos have been on fire consistently regardless of what stupid storyline he is doing.

 

[shaz619]

Don't really know if it's a worked shoot or not, whatever it is, doesn't put the company in good light even if it manages to draw some ratings.

Everyone knows Punk doesn't hold himself back and he keeps grudges. The whole AEW hardcore fanbase, Punk's fanbase and Sasha's hardcore fans are literally yes or no people. Either you say they are the greatest and should be at the top all the time or you're the worst person ever.

On the other hand, Strowman returned to WWE. Which I think is the most sensible rehiring till now cause he's actually over with the casual fans and WWE has been lacking top card guys. A better hiring than Kross IMO.

KO is back to being a full fledged face which I think is good as booing the guy is pretty difficult thing to do considering how entertaining and witty he is.

The Edge/Mysterios/Judgement Day feud is horrific. But man can Edge act. He is doing everything perfectly. He's definitely in top form. His selling of the low blow from Dom was as good acting as you will see in pro wrestling.

MVP's been missing from the TV since Trips took over which is actually disappointing considering how great a presence he has been since his return in last 2 years. His promos have been on fire consistently regardless of what stupid storyline he is doing.

I don’t feel any sympathy for Khan because the backstage problems have been going on for a long time and he did nothing, plus giving the EVP label to those morons was a big mistake, they certainly haven’t behaved like EVP’s.

Punk’s personal issues e.g. Cobana are his concern, he’s just not someone you can ** and get away with it, he will expose you and speak his feelings, he wont run to the media and leak pathetic lies which is what happened here. The attacks by fans on Punk here have been extremely ignorant, ill informed and reek of ******* having their jimmies rustled because he outed their favourites, to defend those people and blame even after they provoked a physical altercation is non-sensical. Imagine you work as employee and some EVP comes knocking for a hell in a cell match, where does that even happen. But they got their behinds handed to them and Punk’s dog is safe so all is good in the world

Yeah agreed Strowman signing is good for the company. I think the heel for Dominik is great for his career. With MVP I feel he is not in Hunter’s good books unfortunately

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] Your thoughts bro, so much has happened lol

 

[shaz619]

I would also ask you guys to check out Jim’s YT channel for his thoughts, best take on the events so far

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] Your thoughts bro, so much has happened lol

So, my thoughts on this whole saga in AEW are somewhat different from most, which seem to be either in Punk's favor or completely against him. On one hand its impossible not to tip your hat to CM Punk for speaking his mind and calling out these unprofessional, politicking little s**ts in the most direct way imaginable. I’m certain that everything he said was true and seeing something like what we got to see the other day was at once, surreal and batsh*t insane.

At the same time though, I feel incredibly bad for Tony Khan, who was frankly embarrassed by Punk as he was sitting next to him. I mean what did this guy, ever do to deserve this? Okay maybe he shouldn’t have made those guys EVPs. But still, (to quote Punk) its effing tragic that he (TK) tries so hard to make this PPV a success. He tries so hard to make the MJF storyline a success (immaculately executed btw), he does his part in making Punk the biggest babyface in his company, and all Punk can talk about at the media scrum is Colt Cabana, Young Bucks and Adam Page.

You wanted to get something off your chest, okay. That first opening question tirade should have been enough. You didn’t have to go on and on and on about the same thing. As funny as some of his insults directed at those idiots were, it got cringeworthy and awkward after a certain point because Punk completely overshadowed the PPV, he completely overshadowed MJF, he completely overshadowed all the work that went into making this PPV a success. And I know some people might disagree with me on this, but that was irresponsible of him. At that moment I don’t think he had the company’s best interests at heart. He was angry and suddenly it was all about him. And again (to quote him) as the World Champion and the biggest star in the business, he should have known better. He did not carry himself like the face of the company in that moment.

I’m all for speaking your mind and everything, but the company did not deserve this bad press and publicity. Tony Khan did not deserve the headache he currently has, just being a good guy. Of course this is not to say that I’m defending those idiots in any way. On the contrary, their EVP titles should be stripped just because of the fight that occurred after this whole thing because of them storming into Punk’s locker-room. But at the same time, the rumor going around that Punk might be fired is also utterly absurd and should not be entertained.

Ultimately, there is only one victim here and that’s Tony Khan.

 

[shaz619]

So, my thoughts on this whole saga in AEW are somewhat different from most, which seem to be either in Punk's favor or completely against him. On one hand its impossible not to tip your hat to CM Punk for speaking his mind and calling out these unprofessional, politicking little s**ts in the most direct way imaginable. I’m certain that everything he said was true and seeing something like what we got to see the other day was at once, surreal and batsh*t insane.

At the same time though, I feel incredibly bad for Tony Khan, who was frankly embarrassed by Punk as he was sitting next to him. I mean what did this guy, ever do to deserve this? Okay maybe he shouldn’t have made those guys EVPs. But still, (to quote Punk) its effing tragic that he (TK) tries so hard to make this PPV a success. He tries so hard to make the MJF storyline a success (immaculately executed btw), he does his part in making Punk the biggest babyface in his company, and all Punk can talk about at the media scrum is Colt Cabana, Young Bucks and Adam Page.

You wanted to get something off your chest, okay. That first opening question tirade should have been enough. You didn’t have to go on and on and on about the same thing. As funny as some of his insults directed at those idiots were, it got cringeworthy and awkward after a certain point because Punk completely overshadowed the PPV, he completely overshadowed MJF, he completely overshadowed all the work that went into making this PPV a success. And I know some people might disagree with me on this, but that was irresponsible of him. At that moment I don’t think he had the company’s best interests at heart. He was angry and suddenly it was all about him. And again (to quote him) as the World Champion and the biggest star in the business, he should have known better. He did not carry himself like the face of the company in that moment.

I’m all for speaking your mind and everything, but the company did not deserve this bad press and publicity. Tony Khan did not deserve the headache he currently has, just being a good guy. Of course this is not to say that I’m defending those idiots in any way. On the contrary, their EVP titles should be stripped just because of the fight that occurred after this whole thing because of them storming into Punk’s locker-room. But at the same time, the rumor going around that Punk might be fired is also utterly absurd and should not be entertained.

Ultimately, there is only one victim here and that’s Tony Khan.

Have you checked out JC’s video’s on YT? they may change some of your views on this.

I have absolute zero sympathy for Khan because firstly, I highly highly doubt this is the first time he is hearing about the issues Punk raised, the elite are always at the centre of every problem backstage, they are bullies and overly believe their own hype, those most untalented bunch to have such huge ego’s, we don’t know half of the stuff they be doing backstage and much of their antics in their career are not even public knowledge and to spread lies to the media was bound to get a response, but my point is Khan had many opportunities to deal with the so called EVP’s and the toxic environment they have created, I don’t believe this is the first time Tony has become aware of the issues Punk raised. If Tony dealt with this much earlier, long before this situation, it may have been avoided, am going back to when Cody was there and the number of issues the elite have been causing since they have been with the company.

And the second reason I have no sympathy for him is this, it was a long night, Punk just had a hard fight, was bleeding and then had to sit with the media to listen to **, Punk isn’t new to these press conference situations but when you hold these late nigh after such a lengthy show, and you have not showered or anything or had time to collect yourself, things are going to be said, this isn’t the first time in history either. Plus biggest thing, Khan just sat there and let it go for what was it, 20-25 min? he didn’t think to give a nudge under the table or just politely end things, no one would have asked him to attack Punk or be confrontational, you know even a whisper or something could have put an end to proceedings

What I hate the most is the hypocritical smarks who fall at Punk’s feet are all on the attack now, some of them WWE lifers but mostly Kenny and Bucks fan who would defend them even if they were convicted rapists.

I get what you are saying it is overshadowing the PPV but somebody had to expose these guys and Punk was the perfect person to take the heat, people will love to hate him evidently. One thing is clear, Punk is arguably the biggest star in wrestling, coming out of this weekend all eyes on the champ

 

[shaz619]

Who knows! some of this could be a worked shoot! I totally feel the heat between Page and Punk is legit though

If I was a promoter I’d really want to monetise this and turn it into an angle!

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Have you checked out JC’s video’s on YT? they may change some of your views on this.

I have absolute zero sympathy for Khan because firstly, I highly highly doubt this is the first time he is hearing about the issues Punk raised, the elite are always at the centre of every problem backstage, they are bullies and overly believe their own hype, those most untalented bunch to have such huge ego’s, we don’t know half of the stuff they be doing backstage and much of their antics in their career are not even public knowledge and to spread lies to the media was bound to get a response, but my point is Khan had many opportunities to deal with the so called EVP’s and the toxic environment they have created, I don’t believe this is the first time Tony has become aware of the issues Punk raised. If Tony dealt with this much earlier, long before this situation, it may have been avoided, am going back to when Cody was there and the number of issues the elite have been causing since they have been with the company.

And the second reason I have no sympathy for him is this, it was a long night, Punk just had a hard fight, was bleeding and then had to sit with the media to listen to **, Punk isn’t new to these press conference situations but when you hold these late nigh after such a lengthy show, and you have not showered or anything or had time to collect yourself, things are going to be said, this isn’t the first time in history either. Plus biggest thing, Khan just sat there and let it go for what was it, 20-25 min? he didn’t think to give a nudge under the table or just politely end things, no one would have asked him to attack Punk or be confrontational, you know even a whisper or something could have put an end to proceedings

What I hate the most is the hypocritical smarks who fall at Punk’s feet are all on the attack now, some of them WWE lifers but mostly Kenny and Bucks fan who would defend them even if they were convicted rapists.

I get what you are saying it is overshadowing the PPV but somebody had to expose these guys and Punk was the perfect person to take the heat, people will love to hate him evidently. One thing is clear, Punk is arguably the biggest star in wrestling, coming out of this weekend all eyes on the champ

I've seen both of his videos. And like I said, I don't disagree with Punk's principle. But as the face of the company you've got to be more rational and responsible. Think about how your actions will affect the rest of the locker-room, the company and the fans.

And I disagree. Tony cannot control anyone. He can't control Punk and he can't control The Elite. He already has ALOT on his plate just producing shows. It's not his job to put out fires and disagreements and know what was leaked to the media and what wasn't. As Punk himself said in the presser, "it's not your job to clarify". That falls on talent relations and the various backstage staff involved in that capacity. Do you remember Vince ever being able to successfully solve Shawn and Bret's differences?

What has happened now though has happened. I just hope that going forward cooler heads prevail.

One thing that I see though, regardless of where you may stand on this issue (and it doesn't take a genius to figure this out), is that Punk is the golden goose. Punk followed by Moxley, Jericho, Danielson
and possibly MJF are the only kind of actual money/ratings-drawing stars in this company. The rest are not draws no matter what they may tell themselves to make themselves happy. On top of that, if these guys (The Elite) decide to walk-out, where are they gonna go? New Japan? That bridge has already been burned? WWE? That would probably be the most hypocritical thing they could do to their own fans, so I doubt it. IMPACT? Good luck lol.

Point is, Punk can walk-out/be fired and the company will not only be worse off but could actually go into serious decline as a result of it. If these guys leave, it will make next to nothing of an impact on business and maybe a little/minute difference for the company.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Who knows! some of this could be a worked shoot! I totally feel the heat between Page and Punk is legit though

If I was a promoter I’d really want to monetise this and turn it into an angle!

Seems far-fetched imo. Why would they pull a worked shoot after they just delivered on the MJF storyline after 3 months and completely overshadow it? They could still turn it into one. But question is will Punk be willing to do business with the Bucks? I highly doubt it. With Page, I am almost certain he will never do business with. With Omega, I don't think he has that much of an issue because he didn't mention Omega in the presser and it is reported that he and Omega had a discussion much later after the fight...that wasn't fruitful, but the fact that they had one still tells you that he doesn't have the same feelings towards him that does against the Bucks.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

So, my thoughts on this whole saga in AEW are somewhat different from most, which seem to be either in Punk's favor or completely against him. On one hand its impossible not to tip your hat to CM Punk for speaking his mind and calling out these unprofessional, politicking little s**ts in the most direct way imaginable. I’m certain that everything he said was true and seeing something like what we got to see the other day was at once, surreal and batsh*t insane.

At the same time though, I feel incredibly bad for Tony Khan, who was frankly embarrassed by Punk as he was sitting next to him. I mean what did this guy, ever do to deserve this? Okay maybe he shouldn’t have made those guys EVPs. But still, (to quote Punk) its effing tragic that he (TK) tries so hard to make this PPV a success. He tries so hard to make the MJF storyline a success (immaculately executed btw), he does his part in making Punk the biggest babyface in his company, and all Punk can talk about at the media scrum is Colt Cabana, Young Bucks and Adam Page.

You wanted to get something off your chest, okay. That first opening question tirade should have been enough. You didn’t have to go on and on and on about the same thing. As funny as some of his insults directed at those idiots were, it got cringeworthy and awkward after a certain point because Punk completely overshadowed the PPV, he completely overshadowed MJF, he completely overshadowed all the work that went into making this PPV a success. And I know some people might disagree with me on this, but that was irresponsible of him. At that moment I don’t think he had the company’s best interests at heart. He was angry and suddenly it was all about him. And again (to quote him) as the World Champion and the biggest star in the business, he should have known better. He did not carry himself like the face of the company in that moment.

I’m all for speaking your mind and everything, but the company did not deserve this bad press and publicity. Tony Khan did not deserve the headache he currently has, just being a good guy. Of course this is not to say that I’m defending those idiots in any way. On the contrary, their EVP titles should be stripped just because of the fight that occurred after this whole thing because of them storming into Punk’s locker-room. But at the same time, the rumor going around that Punk might be fired is also utterly absurd and should not be entertained.

Ultimately, there is only one victim here and that’s Tony Khan.

I have literally no sympathy for Tony whatsoever. He made poor decisions and they are coming to haunt him. He had no reason to make these guys EVPs or suck up to Punk or give the wrestlers too much freedom so they would feel entitled to doing whatever they want. He basically came up with the idea that You'll be free to do anything here, come to my company. And he kept portraying the image like his guys are saints. But the thing is he had no awareness regarding the need for discipline for his employees. You need to give them boundaries and tell them to remain inside them. The wrestlers just went out and felt they were invincible and it's been leading to such situations.

From my perspective, EVPs are selfish self centered politcking individuals who are extremely unprofessional and only want the spotlight on themselves.

CM Punk is a big mouth and impulsive (immature manchild who has never carried himself like a responsible man in the name of being straight edge) who only has self interests in his mind and doesn't care about the company or the business. He's a person who thinks he's always right and it's either his way or highway. This philosophy may work for teens and early adolescents but that's not how grown ups should behave.

And the dressing room is in chaos, vets like Bryan, Jericho, Christian,Henry, Wight etc should be given the role of lockerroom leaders rather than giving these selfish ****** the full freedom to sabotage any good from happening. I am guessing Christian, Bryan etc consciously keep themselves away from getting involved here.

Now Tony is simply caught up in a burning fire he ignited himself. And he is acting like a spoiled brat he is who doesn't know how to handle such situation. Money isn't always the solution.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I've seen both of his videos. And like I said, I don't disagree with Punk's principle. But as the face of the company you've got to be more rational and responsible. Think about how your actions will affect the rest of the locker-room, the company and the fans.

And I disagree. Tony cannot control anyone. He can't control Punk and he can't control The Elite. He already has ALOT on his plate just producing shows. It's not his job to put out fires and disagreements and know what was leaked to the media and what wasn't. As Punk himself said in the presser, "it's not your job to clarify". That falls on talent relations and the various backstage staff involved in that capacity. Do you remember Vince ever being able to successfully solve Shawn and Bret's differences?

What has happened now though has happened. I just hope that going forward cooler heads prevail.

One thing that I see though, regardless of where you may stand on this issue (and it doesn't take a genius to figure this out), is that Punk is the golden goose. Punk followed by Moxley, Jericho, Danielson
and possibly MJF are the only kind of actual money/ratings-drawing stars in this company. The rest are not draws no matter what they may tell themselves to make themselves happy. On top of that, if these guys (The Elite) decide to walk-out, where are they gonna go? New Japan? That bridge has already been burned? WWE? That would probably be the most hypocritical thing they could do to their own fans, so I doubt it. IMPACT? Good luck lol.

Point is, Punk can walk-out/be fired and the company will not only be worse off but could actually go into serious decline as a result of it. If these guys leave, it will make next to nothing of an impact on business and maybe a little/minute difference for the company.

No being the owner of the company, Tony needs to be accountable for not hiring talent relations guys and running it like professional companies operate. He should be ruthless enough to have people patrolling and controlling every department. If there is no Talent relations department, he is to be blamed. Without any check, things always get out of hand. He runs it like "Hey everyone come to my party, we don't have any boring policies here you can do whatever you want" The typical rich brat mentality.