The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[shaz619]

Well he told one guy to go F himself after he hurled a completely unnecessary abuse at him. For which Moxley was cheered. Not saying that was right...what he did,but I don't think you can even call that a heel thing. Even Punk insulted a heckler on Dynamite last week.

I dunno man, I was always big on Mox. When I started watching AEW he was my guy. Because I always thought he was underused in WWE and it was great to see him finally be a top guy and just be unhinged. But this year...ever since his return from rehab, I feel he has just gone to the next level. His promos have been incredible, his matches (for the most part) have been great and the reactions that he is getting are hard to look past. He was cheered even in Chicago when he came out for the match against Punk. I can't think of many others who would be cheered in Chicago in a match against CM Punk. Not to mention, he carried the flag for AEW as World Champion when Punk got hurt and delivered every single week. He has had a heck of a year for me and deserves all the praise and plaudits in the world. The finishing touch was really this feud with Punk. And thing is, the year for him might not even have ended yet considering he will probably be main-eventing Grand Slam.

He is world class I wont doubt that just that he is frustrating at times as I know he can be better, I know you’re a big fan am not crapping on him because a lot of time he produces the goods snd this feud with Punk has been brilliant.

On Punk it was about to happen sooner rather then later, they’ve been doing it for weeks but Punk’s incredible baby face work would bring them back like in the promo you liked with Ace, Punk’s a guy fans hate to love and love to hate, always will be that way, but I hope he is appreciated more then he is because there is no one like him or at his level as an all rounder

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It makes sense because no matter what side you are on, Page is at fault. If you like Omega and the other dimwits its Page’s fault they are not here, if you like Punk, you can thank Page he is no longer here. But it is interesting to see that lot recognised this and applied basic logic / reasoning

If am honest I think Cesaro over achieved, he could have been well beneath how he was presented due to his inability with the mic but I think with WWE, it’s a high level and not easy to even hold a spot between the mid to upper mid card regularly because everyone can work. What got Cesaro over was his super human strength and unique offence, as a character I feel I really enjoyed the real americans run with Zeb and his final run was fun to. Maybe things went south at times but he got to work with the best in the company and had a showcase singles match at a Wrestlemania. He got some bad luck towards the end I thought with some injury to which may have halted the push but he was a valuable member for them. If I was bringing him in I’d recognise that and strap a rocket, are you a fam of how he is being used currently? I haven’t seen him on Dynamite and I treat Rampage like Sunday Night Heat, it seems most viewers do as well

Yeah no doubt. Page is quite literally the catalyst for everything wrong in AEW right now. And that's what makes me hate him even more. He did this purely out of being an effing p***k. Since now it has basically been proven that Punk had absolutely nothing to do with the Cabana situation.

Let's just forget about the whole 'going into business for yourself' part for a second. This p***k didn't even have the guts to apologize for the fact that he acted like a stupid mark and cut a promo on Punk based on something that wasn't even true. That's the kind of egotistical a****** this guy is.

I think far too much is made of Claudio's 'lack of promo ability' maybe he wasn't that good at a certain point of time. But I've seen him cut promos on AEW TV. He's fairly good and more than capable of getting the crowd behind him.

I don't agree. Claudio with what he offers in the ring should have been pushed more. He should have had lengthy runs with the IC title and should have been in the mix for the World title numerous times. At the end of the day, the proof lies in the pudding. And Claudio was hella over not too long ago when he had that Cesaro section and swatches of fans cheering him just because of his wrestling ability. Also feel that lack of promo ability is not the be all and end all. That's what managers are for. Brock for almost the entirety of his career (barring his most recent babyface run) was a godawful promo. Far, far worse than Claudio ever was. But because he looked the way that he looked, he was pushed to the moon. And that's how things always worked with Vince unless someone he trusted told him otherwise about a particular guy.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] I was thinking, if the plan is to do Roman v The Rock, it has to be for the title.

I changed my take on this because if you don’t do it for the belt and say it’s at mania, those who are fighting for the championships would then be second fiddle and overshadowed by a huge match.

Imagine Rock v Roman is not for the title

And hypothetically we get Cody v KO or someone else open the show for the titles, it would be nice but not as big a deal as it should be.

I’ve never been a fan of the titles being booked on the under card and it devalues them and whoever is fighting for them, it would mean less to imo regardless of main event or not a Rock match would overshadow the belts

What do you think?

Here's the thing that bothers me about this. Everyone knows who The Rock is. And everyone knows that he is not a pro-wrestler anymore, nor does he want to be because well, he's the biggest star in Hollywood. Which is why it makes no sense for him to go after the title. Not only does he not deserve a shot (in kayfabe) but he also does not need the title to validate himself because he the freakin' Rock: a man who has done everything there is to do in this business. I also feel that by putting the belt on the line you are taking the element of surprise out of the equation. Because everyone knows that The Rock is not coming back for his swansong final run. It's probably going to be one match. By putting the belt on the line, I think you're basically telling fans that Roman is winning this match.

I think you can get much more out of this feud just by making it about family. There are plenty of things to tap into that would feel natural and compelling.

I also think that Cody winning the belt after potentially making a heroic return at the Rumble would be a much better story than Roman retaining the belt in a match that no one expected him to lose.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He is world class I wont doubt that just that he is frustrating at times as I know he can be better, I know you’re a big fan am not crapping on him because a lot of time he produces the goods snd this feud with Punk has been brilliant.

On Punk it was about to happen sooner rather then later, they’ve been doing it for weeks but Punk’s incredible baby face work would bring them back like in the promo you liked with Ace, Punk’s a guy fans hate to love and love to hate, always will be that way, but I hope he is appreciated more then he is because there is no one like him or at his level as an all rounder

Fair enough.

I just hope we get to see Punk again. It's really sad how things have transpired. And the way the fickle fans have reacted. It certainly is the end of Punk's babyface run for now, but I just hope it isn't the end of his wrestling career. CM Punk does not deserve to go out like this. Especially after all the great things he has done in the last year. I know for a fact, that Tony is a massive mark for Punk and even Meltzer admits that when Tony started the company Punk was the No.1 guy that he wanted to build his company around. Not Jericho, not Bucks, not Omega and not Page. But CM Punk.

So my only hope is that he will do everything in his power to ensure that Punk stays with AEW and doesn't have to deal with this kind of b******t in the future, once all the dust settles.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He is world class I wont doubt that just that he is frustrating at times as I know he can be better, I know you’re a big fan am not crapping on him because a lot of time he produces the goods snd this feud with Punk has been brilliant.

On Punk it was about to happen sooner rather then later, they’ve been doing it for weeks but Punk’s incredible baby face work would bring them back like in the promo you liked with Ace, Punk’s a guy fans hate to love and love to hate, always will be that way, but I hope he is appreciated more then he is because there is no one like him or at his level as an all rounder

One of the funniest takes about this Media Scrum for me, that funnily enough no one reported on, was Ric Flair's. Flair was basically like: 'I don't know the guy at all and have no opinion (good or bad) on him. But when he [Punk] said that if you have a problem with me, you can come to my locker-room, that's some pretty old school stuff man. That's something Harley Race would say. And I love that he said that. I'm not sure if he's as much of a tough guy as Harley, but I like that he said that.'

 

[James]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWECastle?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WWECastle</a> was a massive success for <a href="https://twitter.com/WWE?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WWE</a> across all lines of business and the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWEUniverse?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WWEUniverse</a> in the UK… the next question is where should we go next?! <a href="https://t.co/mX5xLbC6HZ">pic.twitter.com/mX5xLbC6HZ</a></p>— Triple H (@TripleH) <a href="https://twitter.com/TripleH/status/1569333812563427328?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 12, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[shaz619]

Here's the thing that bothers me about this. Everyone knows who The Rock is. And everyone knows that he is not a pro-wrestler anymore, nor does he want to be because well, he's the biggest star in Hollywood. Which is why it makes no sense for him to go after the title. Not only does he not deserve a shot (in kayfabe) but he also does not need the title to validate himself because he the freakin' Rock: a man who has done everything there is to do in this business. I also feel that by putting the belt on the line you are taking the element of surprise out of the equation. Because everyone knows that The Rock is not coming back for his swansong final run. It's probably going to be one match. By putting the belt on the line, I think you're basically telling fans that Roman is winning this match.

I think you can get much more out of this feud just by making it about family. There are plenty of things to tap into that would feel natural and compelling.

I also think that Cody winning the belt after potentially making a heroic return at the Rumble would be a much better story than Roman retaining the belt in a match that no one expected him to lose.

You never know, maybe we will get twice in a life time again but am not convinced Rock is sure to come back am just thinking in terms of fantasy booking, will Rock’s insurance allow him to wrestle? I don’t know, what is his schedule like? but with a match involving such a big star and the novelty of it being the first match between the two, I don’t know if the outcome would be a foregone conclusion necessarily, there would be an element of suspending your disbelief because it’s The Rock and they could be creative during the match.

In terms of kayfabe you are right and in theory Rock being a heel as a result would make sense. But he could earn the shot via a Rumble win if that were an issue or by other means in an interim bout / elimination chamber. I agree he doesn’t need the belt so to speak, but maybe Rocky boy wants it? remember Batista wanted to win it before WM 30 but Vince didn’t think Guardians of the Galaxy would be a big deal. And here’s the other thing on eligibility for a title shot, he’s The Rock remember and what The Rock wants, the Rock gets, in Boxing we’ve seen Floyd semi-retire among other big draws in the sport and even after being away for so long, it wasn’t long before a title shot was claimed, money and some magic from a promoter helped there so it’s not out of the realms of possibility even in combat sport this often happens. And I think now more then ever where a big chunk of the lapsed fan don’t watch WWE as much, I don’t know to what extend the WWE audience would care.

But I agree with the gist of what you are saying, however do you not have concerns of Cody title win being overshadowed by Reigns/Rock if they go the way you are suggesting? think of WM 18 and WM 25, the world title match was an after thought, and you can bet if Reigns/Rock are wrestling whether it is the main event or not the mainstream media are going to give them front page news.

One solution would be to put Cody in the Reigns/Rock match!

 

[shaz619]

One of the funniest takes about this Media Scrum for me, that funnily enough no one reported on, was Ric Flair's. Flair was basically like: 'I don't know the guy at all and have no opinion (good or bad) on him. But when he [Punk] said that if you have a problem with me, you can come to my locker-room, that's some pretty old school stuff man. That's something Harley Race would say. And I love that he said that. I'm not sure if he's as much of a tough guy as Harley, but I like that he said that.'

I didn’t read that, Ric is a legend LOL

P.S Punk is one of the toughest guys in wrestling. People give him stick for UFC and underestimate his real fight credentials, unless someone has fought in the UFC, Bellator or a high enough level in another combat sport, they don’t have a foot to stand on, there’s a difference between UFC and those who don’t have similar experiences, we forget that. The other thing is this, Punk actually won a round in the UFC which is ridiculous to imagine given his combat experiences/injuries, and he showed immense toughness and heart, you can actually tap out during strikes but he refused to, I’ve seen the great Joanna Champion tap out to strikes but not Punk, heck I recall Conor McGregor giving respect for that fact that he got in the cage to, Punk won more respect in the MMA community then people realise among the top fighters who were draws.

 

[shaz619]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWECastle?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WWECastle</a> was a massive success for <a href="https://twitter.com/WWE?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WWE</a> across all lines of business and the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWEUniverse?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WWEUniverse</a> in the UK… the next question is where should we go next?! <a href="https://t.co/mX5xLbC6HZ">pic.twitter.com/mX5xLbC6HZ</a></p>— Triple H (@TripleH) <a href="https://twitter.com/TripleH/status/1569333812563427328?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 12, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And still they never gave the UK a branded PPV or any memorable moments besides having the home wrestlers get the crap beaten out of them.

Am not surprised by the success of the event in the least.

I hope if they do come back, they do better.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You never know, maybe we will get twice in a life time again but am not convinced Rock is sure to come back am just thinking in terms of fantasy booking, will Rock’s insurance allow him to wrestle? I don’t know, what is his schedule like? but with a match involving such a big star and the novelty of it being the first match between the two, I don’t know if the outcome would be a foregone conclusion necessarily, there would be an element of suspending your disbelief because it’s The Rock and they could be creative during the match.

In terms of kayfabe you are right and in theory Rock being a heel as a result would make sense. But he could earn the shot via a Rumble win if that were an issue or by other means in an interim bout / elimination chamber. I agree he doesn’t need the belt so to speak, but maybe Rocky boy wants it? remember Batista wanted to win it before WM 30 but Vince didn’t think Guardians of the Galaxy would be a big deal. And here’s the other thing on eligibility for a title shot, he’s The Rock remember and what The Rock wants, the Rock gets, in Boxing we’ve seen Floyd semi-retire among other big draws in the sport and even after being away for so long, it wasn’t long before a title shot was claimed, money and some magic from a promoter helped there so it’s not out of the realms of possibility even in combat sport this often happens. And I think now more then ever where a big chunk of the lapsed fan don’t watch WWE as much, I don’t know to what extend the WWE audience would care.

But I agree with the gist of what you are saying, however do you not have concerns of Cody title win being overshadowed by Reigns/Rock if they go the way you are suggesting? think of WM 18 and WM 25, the world title match was an after thought, and you can bet if Reigns/Rock are wrestling whether it is the main event or not the mainstream media are going to give them front page news.

One solution would be to put Cody in the Reigns/Rock match!

I dunno man. I just think that a one on one match between these two would be much better and more compelling on paper. Just because of the real life connection between these two. I think it would have more of an element of surprise without the belt on the line.

And knowing The Rock and his respect for the business, he would never want the belt on the line unless WWE made it that way

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I didn’t read that, Ric is a legend LOL

P.S Punk is one of the toughest guys in wrestling. People give him stick for UFC and underestimate his real fight credentials, unless someone has fought in the UFC, Bellator or a high enough level in another combat sport, they don’t have a foot to stand on, there’s a difference between UFC and those who don’t have similar experiences, we forget that. The other thing is this, Punk actually won a round in the UFC which is ridiculous to imagine given his combat experiences/injuries, and he showed immense toughness and heart, you can actually tap out during strikes but he refused to, I’ve seen the great Joanna Champion tap out to strikes but not Punk, heck I recall Conor McGregor giving respect for that fact that he got in the cage to, Punk won more respect in the MMA community then people realise among the top fighters who were draws.

I don't know how much he is respected in MMA. Because I have seen MMA experts go off on him and if we're being honest his matches were pretty embarrassing. Both his matches were against rookies and they embarrassed him. Even the round that he did win was as a result of a technicality.

But that said, I do agree with you that he is more of a tough guy than most people in the wrestling business today, just because he is trained in MMA. Flair is a legend but everyone knows that he was the farthest thing from a tough guy in his time.

 

[shaz619]

Fair enough.

I just hope we get to see Punk again. It's really sad how things have transpired. And the way the fickle fans have reacted. It certainly is the end of Punk's babyface run for now, but I just hope it isn't the end of his wrestling career. CM Punk does not deserve to go out like this. Especially after all the great things he has done in the last year. I know for a fact, that Tony is a massive mark for Punk and even Meltzer admits that when Tony started the company Punk was the No.1 guy that he wanted to build his company around. Not Jericho, not Bucks, not Omega and not Page. But CM Punk.

So my only hope is that he will do everything in his power to ensure that Punk stays with AEW and doesn't have to deal with this kind of b******t in the future, once all the dust settles.

I know what you mean but at the same time if it is the end Punk can be proud of his comeback and ended his run on a classic wrestling match / went out as champion, very few get fairy tale endings in wrestling but that’s not bad, yes the fans are talking sh!t but they always will. For me Punk elevated his legacy even further by showing how there is no one on his level all round in this era.

But hopefully Tony can bring him back and if anything he must realise Punk is the biggest star the company has ever had really.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

And still they never gave the UK a branded PPV or any memorable moments besides having the home wrestlers get the crap beaten out of them.

Am not surprised by the success of the event in the least.

I hope if they do come back, they do better.

LMAO. Poor Sheamus's chest looked like a grilled hamburger

 

[shaz619]

LMAO. Poor Sheamus's chest looked like a grilled hamburger

He defo slept well that night On SD that followed US fans were going nuts for him which was interesting, he got a great ovation from the home fans which was nice. But overall it was a strong show however you need to do something for the fans, heck they gave the bloody Aussies something at the MCG Buddy Murphy and the Iconics got some nice moments and they were not vets like Sheamy and Drew

 

[shaz619]

I don't know how much he is respected in MMA. Because I have seen MMA experts go off on him and if we're being honest his matches were pretty embarrassing. Both his matches were against rookies and they embarrassed him. Even the round that he did win was as a result of a technicality.

But that said, I do agree with you that he is more of a tough guy than most people in the wrestling business today, just because he is trained in MMA. Flair is a legend but everyone knows that he was the farthest thing from a tough guy in his time.

Experts who will never lace a pair of gloves yes but not the top fighters who know the risks these guys take when they go to war.

These wrestling people think they can take on Punk just because he lost which is the dumbest thing ever, those guys were inexperienced but had been doing MMA much longer then Punk and closed to their physical prime.

Flair was well liked, in the ring his toughness shouldn’t be question when you look at his sacrifices. Unless you meant something else or an interesting story or two?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] I've been thinking about the World title picture in AEW and I think there are a number of ways they can go about the current situation. I know we discussed the idea of MJF winning the belt at the PPV. But I think we're overlooking a few things.

For one thing, the idea of Danielson as World Champion should not be discounted. Not only would we be getting incredible matches on a consistent basis but we'll finally get to see more of his promo ability too which has sadly been repressed somewhat ever since that feud with Page. Because now Regal is the one who seems to do all the talking.

I also think that the fact that MJF is referencing the bidding war of 2024 is not just to get some easy heat. I think its very likely that Tony has signed him to a long term deal and they are likely using this as fodder for a long term storyline. Where MJF becomes Champion... possibly next year. And then the storyline is that we are on a countdown to when he is goes to WWE with the belt, and whether or not someone can beat him for it or not. And then in such a situation you have Punk (if not him then Mox) who steps up as the guy who will stop MJF.

I think right now, Tony would probably want a proven commodity like Mox or Danielson to have the belt and bring some stability to it by holding onto it till at least the end of this year. Which is why I think its highly likely that MJF loses his Poker Chip opportunity match.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He defo slept well that night On SD that followed US fans were going nuts for him which was interesting, he got a great ovation from the home fans which was nice. But overall it was a strong show however you need to do something for the fans, heck they gave the bloody Aussies something at the MCG Buddy Murphy and the Iconics got some nice moments and they were not vets like Sheamy and Drew

Yeah I mean credit where credit is due. Sheamus got over and it wasn't just a UK thing because fans were reacting very positively to him on SD!

I've never been the biggest fan of him. But I think he really showed something different in that match with Gunther. And seeing that, and the matches he has had with Drew in the past, I think his strength lies in having these kind of hard-hitting, stiff matches.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Experts who will never lace a pair of gloves yes but not the top fighters who know the risks these guys take when they go to war.

These wrestling people think they can take on Punk just because he lost which is the dumbest thing ever, those guys were inexperienced but had been doing MMA much longer then Punk and closed to their physical prime.

Flair was well liked, in the ring his toughness shouldn’t be question when you look at his sacrifices. Unless you meant something else or an interesting story or two?

Yeah I've heard a few stories or two. But tbh I don't want to get into it because this is not something I care about when I think about it. I think the concept of masculinity is often looked at in a really stupid and outdated kind of a way especially in the wrestling business. Which is why I don't even want to get started on The Steiners who were bullies and in my opinion the farthest thing from real men because of the way they treated people backstage.

Ric is a legend. And one of the greatest ever period.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Was just listening to Cornette's podcast and he referenced this article that is truly amazing and deserves to be read by anyone who wants to understand what Punk has contributed to AEW, but also by someone who is just a fan of Punk:

https://www.espn.com/wwe/story/_/id...formation-mentor-trailblazer-aew?platform=amp

 

[sweep_shot]

Found this on YouTube recently. Nostalgia.

Wrestling may never be this cool again.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Watched the recent RAW, four things stood out for me.

1. Was great to see a technical masterclass by Chad Gable and the ever reliable Johnny Gargano. A great match for the weekly tv. Fans of Benoit, Kurt, Malenko etc style of wrestling would love it. No feud, just wrestling.

2. The fiery promos from KO and Theory that actually made a brawl look like a big deal and not a fake one for a sake of angle. There was some real heart involved there.

3. A sign of heel turn from Rey might be possible for the first time in his WWE career.

4. Balor and Riddle got to wrestle a great match with all the drama and sports entertainment in addition to the great in ring skills they have.

In all, WWE is slowly moving towards an area where they are going to have something for every style of wrestling. For example, Sheamus, Walter, Lashley, Drew, Dunne, Nakamura etc are there for the stiff and strong style. Gargano, Gable, Riddle, Balor for old school technical wrestling. Richochet, Ali, Rey etc for the high flying style. Seth, Roman, KO, Edge, AJ etc for the dramatic high octane matches and feuds that is a staple of WWE. Tag team and women's wrestling needs a lot of work and focus though. But the signs have been encouraging. Cesaro would have been a great fit here but I don't blame him for leaving WWE. Not booking him in the Rumble where the likes of Shane O Mac, Ivar, etc were booked was a kick in the gut for him.

It's been officially announced that NXT 2.0 is done. And is going to be some sort of a hybrid of the two going forward. They have even dropped the 2.0 from the name and changed the logo.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Watched the recent RAW, four things stood out for me.

1. Was great to see a technical masterclass by Chad Gable and the ever reliable Johnny Gargano. A great match for the weekly tv. Fans of Benoit, Kurt, Malenko etc style of wrestling would love it. No feud, just wrestling.

2. The fiery promos from KO and Theory that actually made a brawl look like a big deal and not a fake one for a sake of angle. There was some real heart involved there.

3. A sign of heel turn from Rey might be possible for the first time in his WWE career.

4. Balor and Riddle got to wrestle a great match with all the drama and sports entertainment in addition to the great in ring skills they have.

In all, WWE is slowly moving towards an area where they are going to have something for every style of wrestling. For example, Sheamus, Walter, Lashley, Drew, Dunne, Nakamura etc are there for the stiff and strong style. Gargano, Gable, Riddle, Balor for old school technical wrestling. Richochet, Ali, Rey etc for the high flying style. Seth, Roman, KO, Edge, AJ etc for the dramatic high octane matches and feuds that is a staple of WWE. Tag team and women's wrestling needs a lot of work and focus though. But the signs have been encouraging. Cesaro would have been a great fit here but I don't blame him for leaving WWE. Not booking him in the Rumble where the likes of Shane O Mac, Ivar, etc were booked was a kick in the gut for him.

It's been officially announced that NXT 2.0 is done. And is going to be some sort of a hybrid of the two going forward. They have even dropped the 2.0 from the name and changed the logo.

I dunno this show was kinda meh for me.

Owens promo was the highlight. And very much enjoyed Gargano v Gable, which I thought was a very good match.

But I am so over this Judgment Day v Rey/Edge storyline. I like that they are trying to do something different with Dominick. And Rhea Ripley brings a really interesting dynamic to the whole thing. But man oh man is Dom awful on promos. He did so much emoting and overacting in that promo of his that it was incredibly hard to take him seriously. Also, how many times have these guys injured Edge in just this storyline? I can count atleast 2 or 3 times now.

That said, I just don't see Rey turning heel...ever. I think he will end his career as a babyface.

Re: NXT, that's great to hear. But hopefully they can start bringing in some talent too. Because when I look at that NXT roster, there are very few guys I care about. I guess Bobby Fish would be one guy who will likely be coming back (what a SOB he turned out be btw).

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Was just listening to Cornette's podcast and he referenced this article that is truly amazing and deserves to be read by anyone who wants to understand what Punk has contributed to AEW, but also by someone who is just a fan of Punk:

https://www.espn.com/wwe/story/_/id...formation-mentor-trailblazer-aew?platform=amp

Ah I missed this, I’ve got my shovel out in the cricket forum lately. What an epic article, trust a credible platform to have highlighted his insane impact. I need to savour this article but Jim talked on what Punk did for Hobbs whos family member had passed. I am always embarrassed to be a raslin fan even more so after the events of that presser when you look at so called wrestling media on social platforms who lack even 1% of objectivity and get wet the moment Omega or the Bucks feed them absolute **, wresting journalism is of the worst kind really and absolute aids, makes me sick.

Anyhow am glad to see Punk in the PWI top 3, I think he should have been no.2 but what the hell did Page do to get ranked as high as no.4 while Mox sits at no.12. PWI use to be prestigious but have begun to pander to the hipster marks.

 

[shaz619]

I dunno this show was kinda meh for me.

Owens promo was the highlight. And very much enjoyed Gargano v Gable, which I thought was a very good match.

But I am so over this Judgment Day v Rey/Edge storyline. I like that they are trying to do something different with Dominick. And Rhea Ripley brings a really interesting dynamic to the whole thing. But man oh man is Dom awful on promos. He did so much emoting and overacting in that promo of his that it was incredibly hard to take him seriously. Also, how many times have these guys injured Edge in just this storyline? I can count atleast 2 or 3 times now.

That said, I just don't see Rey turning heel...ever. I think he will end his career as a babyface.

Re: NXT, that's great to hear. But hopefully they can start bringing in some talent too. Because when I look at that NXT roster, there are very few guys I care about. I guess Bobby Fish would be one guy who will likely be coming back (what a SOB he turned out be btw).

Jim mentioned some weird group fish supports? on the experience I believe. Page apparently is friends with or supports a convicted sexual abuser, I read that online

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] I've been thinking about the World title picture in AEW and I think there are a number of ways they can go about the current situation. I know we discussed the idea of MJF winning the belt at the PPV. But I think we're overlooking a few things.

For one thing, the idea of Danielson as World Champion should not be discounted. Not only would we be getting incredible matches on a consistent basis but we'll finally get to see more of his promo ability too which has sadly been repressed somewhat ever since that feud with Page. Because now Regal is the one who seems to do all the talking.

I also think that the fact that MJF is referencing the bidding war of 2024 is not just to get some easy heat. I think its very likely that Tony has signed him to a long term deal and they are likely using this as fodder for a long term storyline. Where MJF becomes Champion... possibly next year. And then the storyline is that we are on a countdown to when he is goes to WWE with the belt, and whether or not someone can beat him for it or not. And then in such a situation you have Punk (if not him then Mox) who steps up as the guy who will stop MJF.

I think right now, Tony would probably want a proven commodity like Mox or Danielson to have the belt and bring some stability to it by holding onto it till at least the end of this year. Which is why I think its highly likely that MJF loses his Poker Chip opportunity match.

Agree with the above and Danielson is a strong candidate for sure. Despite my earlier comments I think Mox has the baby face momentum right now, is the world title match next week?

Ideally Mox or Bryan should hold the title for minimum 12 months before getting squashed by MJF. AEW doesn’t go on the road so I would think either should be happy to carry the strap

 

[shaz619]

I would like to see War Games return at Survivor Series

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] On the experience JC mentioned someone part of the Omega convoy who stormed the locker room was. a Lawyer!? is this true?

Some of the stuff is so ridiculous that my belly hurts from laughter )

JC’s suggestions were pretty good

Talent Relations: Jim Ross / have him review contracts

Booking: William Regal and someone else with experience while Tony takes a side step

Lawyer: Hire someone experienced who isn’t afraid of wrestlers

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] On the experience JC mentioned someone part of the Omega convoy who stormed the locker room was. a Lawyer!? is this true?

Some of the stuff is so ridiculous that my belly hurts from laughter )

JC’s suggestions were pretty good

Talent Relations: Jim Ross / have him review contracts

Booking: William Regal and someone else with experience while Tony takes a side step

Lawyer: Hire someone experienced who isn’t afraid of wrestlers

Baffles me how Henry hasn't been used in the role. He was known to be the voice of black wrestlers who would take up their issues to the higher ups. A lot of talent has credited Henry for getting majority of the black guys signed to WWE. He is experienced in this regard and an intimidating personality. Should use him in that regard instead of having him as the backstage interviewer.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Agree with the above and Danielson is a strong candidate for sure. Despite my earlier comments I think Mox has the baby face momentum right now, is the world title match next week?

Ideally Mox or Bryan should hold the title for minimum 12 months before getting squashed by MJF. AEW doesn’t go on the road so I would think either should be happy to carry the strap

If you have someone like Bryan and are unable to give him a prominent role build your company around, then maybe you aren't really that good of a booker or businessman.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I dunno this show was kinda meh for me.

Owens promo was the highlight. And very much enjoyed Gargano v Gable, which I thought was a very good match.

But I am so over this Judgment Day v Rey/Edge storyline. I like that they are trying to do something different with Dominick. And Rhea Ripley brings a really interesting dynamic to the whole thing. But man oh man is Dom awful on promos. He did so much emoting and overacting in that promo of his that it was incredibly hard to take him seriously. Also, how many times have these guys injured Edge in just this storyline? I can count atleast 2 or 3 times now.

That said, I just don't see Rey turning heel...ever. I think he will end his career as a babyface.

Re: NXT, that's great to hear. But hopefully they can start bringing in some talent too. Because when I look at that NXT roster, there are very few guys I care about. I guess Bobby Fish would be one guy who will likely be coming back (what a SOB he turned out be btw).

They should end that feud seriously. No one really wants to see the last run of Edge being wasted in a feud like this which is benefitting no one. Although I still believe Edge vs Balor would an absolute delight to watch if it doesn't involve interferences.

Trips might end up re hiring Fish but honestly he's been the weakest and most boring member of UE. He doesn't really bring anything to the table. He is a good tag team worker and that's about it.

It's good to see Sheamus getting great reactions. For over 10 years, he was booked awfully. Think if it wasn't for his awesome feud with Drew last year, he might have not been taken seriously in WWE. Even after that, Vince booked his US title run as bad as he could. It was filled with 4 months of countless squashes of Ricochet and Humberto followed by a hasty loss to Priest.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

They should end that feud seriously. No one really wants to see the last run of Edge being wasted in a feud like this which is benefitting no one. Although I still believe Edge vs Balor would an absolute delight to watch if it doesn't involve interferences.

Trips might end up re hiring Fish but honestly he's been the weakest and most boring member of UE. He doesn't really bring anything to the table. He is a good tag team worker and that's about it.

It's good to see Sheamus getting great reactions. For over 10 years, he was booked awfully. Think if it wasn't for his awesome feud with Drew last year, he might have not been taken seriously in WWE. Even after that, Vince booked his US title run as bad as he could. It was filled with 4 months of countless squashes of Ricochet and Humberto followed by a hasty loss to Priest.

Yeah agreed. Edge needs to be having those dream matches that everyone wants him to have. There are many great wrestlers on the roster that he has not worked with. I mean, just imagine a program between Edge and KO. For some unknown reason though, he has been involved in this freaking Judgement Day crap for most of this year. How much longer will this last??

Yeah agreed there as well. Fish is nothing more than a tag team guy. With him and O'Reilly as a unit, you feel you are seeing a really compelling tag team. And truth be told, they are. Their MMA-inspired style/tandem offence is something I have always found cool. But as a singles guy, Fish does not have much to offer because he had plenty of singles matches in AEW and notoriously s**t the bed not just against Punk (as we know now) but also against Jeff Hardy, in that awful match from months ago that I still haven't been able to forget. The best you could get out of Grandpa Fish is by putting him in a tag-team with Roderick Strong.

As I said to shaz, I have never been a fan of Sheamus. But credit where credit is due. He got over big in that match against WALTER. Credit to H aswell who recognized that Sheamus's strength are these kind of hard-hitting, stiff matches...putting him with the guy that specializes in these kind of matches was a master-stroke, eventhough it seemed like a fairly obvious pairing on paper.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Jim mentioned some weird group fish supports? on the experience I believe. Page apparently is friends with or supports a convicted sexual abuser, I read that online

Yeah apparently he is a friend and supporter of that nutjob former NXT referee Drake Wuertz, who is a racist, conspiracy theorist and QAnon nut. He was fired by WWE last year because he supposedly went to a town-hall meeting in Florida (in his referee garb) to talk about his QAnon adjacent ' anti child-trafficking charity'...a charity that Fish seemingly supports. Don't even ask me to explain what this charity is about. Because just trying to understand it a year ago made my head hurt.

The thing about Fish that really made me laugh though were his comments directed at CM Punk. What basically happened was that he f**ked up (either deliberately or by accident) in that match against Punk last year on Dynamite and kicked out in what was supposed to be the finish. Punk apparently went to TK and told him that I'm not working with this guy again, which is a fairly legitimate gripe to have with someone that was unprofessional in the ring.

Well now that going after Punk has become everyone's favorite hobby these days, old Fish probably decided to join in. Funny thing is that though, for all his boasting about beating Punk in a 'shoot fight', no one is actually buying into the idea that a senior citizen is doing anything to anyone.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] On the experience JC mentioned someone part of the Omega convoy who stormed the locker room was. a Lawyer!? is this true?

Some of the stuff is so ridiculous that my belly hurts from laughter )

JC’s suggestions were pretty good

Talent Relations: Jim Ross / have him review contracts

Booking: William Regal and someone else with experience while Tony takes a side step

Lawyer: Hire someone experienced who isn’t afraid of wrestlers

I'm not so sure about JR as Head of Talent Relations. JR's health has not been particularly good in recent years. Just last year he underwent treatment for skin cancer. And at his age, I wouldn't want to burden him with something like this, even though on-paper he is without a doubt the best guy for the job.

As far as booking is concerned, look I get Cornette's point. And I'm not even saying that TK is a good booker. But I really think Tony Khan needs to learn by doing. Good booking is not rocket-science. In many ways it is actually very simple. But when you're booking for a company like AEW...where the voice of the fans is very loud, its easy to listen to their voice more than the voice of reason.

I think booking is something you ultimately really understand from experience. And I think that it being his company, Tony Khan is the one who should be responsible and accountable for the good or bad direction of the show. Hopefully as he gains more experience, he will start paying more attention to logic and common sense rather than what the internet marks want. One thing that I appreciate about him is that he does seem to learn from constructive criticism, which is a very positive sign. Heck, I'm pretty sure he listens to Cornette's podcast on a fairly regular basis...or at the very least tells one of his interns to make notes of it.

Regal is an amazing guy to have as a talent scout. It's something that he has been doing for WWE from 2002. I'm sure he would make a great booker too. But I personally believe that Tony Khan should be the one booking AEW.


As for the lawyer, don't know much about her. But clearly she isn't that great at her job of convincing people, otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess.

 

[shaz619]

I'm not so sure about JR as Head of Talent Relations. JR's health has not been particularly good in recent years. Just last year he underwent treatment for skin cancer. And at his age, I wouldn't want to burden him with something like this, even though on-paper he is without a doubt the best guy for the job.

As far as booking is concerned, look I get Cornette's point. And I'm not even saying that TK is a good booker. But I really think Tony Khan needs to learn by doing. Good booking is not rocket-science. In many ways it is actually very simple. But when you're booking for a company like AEW...where the voice of the fans is very loud, its easy to listen to their voice more than the voice of reason.

I think booking is something you ultimately really understand from experience. And I think that it being his company, Tony Khan is the one who should be responsible and accountable for the good or bad direction of the show. Hopefully as he gains more experience, he will start paying more attention to logic and common sense rather than what the internet marks want. One thing that I appreciate about him is that he does seem to learn from constructive criticism, which is a very positive sign. Heck, I'm pretty sure he listens to Cornette's podcast on a fairly regular basis...or at the very least tells one of his interns to make notes of it.

Regal is an amazing guy to have as a talent scout. It's something that he has been doing for WWE from 2002. I'm sure he would make a great booker too. But I personally believe that Tony Khan should be the one booking AEW.


As for the lawyer, don't know much about her. But clearly she isn't that great at her job of convincing people, otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess.

Even in a consultancy capacity it would be fine, I’d have thought commentary would still be pretty taxing, wasn’t it why he had initially stopped doing it for a bit.

I agree that you can learn from his experience providing mistakes are recognised and rectified, Khan lets say he doesn’t hire a booker, and JC said this to that at the very least he should be willing to listen to those who are more experienced. And even if we ignore the AEW fans voice there has been an explosion waiting to happen with the EVP situation, he was advised on numerous occasions not to follow that path and this advice was given to him for free. Khan does listen to constructive criticism on the podcasts he looks at the pros and cons, am sure he probably listens to JC’s podcast more then most because it is the only one which isn’t on the elite kool aid. But I’ve not seen him make the big changes needed to be a professional set up.

Booking can be straight forward but I will not say to you it is because I’ve never done it and booking as a fan is different to the real thing, being a leader / commanding respect and managing a multitude of factors and personalities is a different ball game.

Tony can be the guy of he wants, but one thing which should be common sense and logical is to have experienced people around you and have a team, am not a big fan of haitch but this guy in media constantly emphasises the “team”. If you want to have the final say / input, great! but it doesn’t hurt to have a creative team of experienced writers/bookers, it doesn’t have to be like 20 people. And then implement basics like not giving too much power to his employees and having proper lawyers in place, you mentioned JR may not be ideal as a talent scout and fair enough, maybe they can find someone else who has experience with scouting and managing contracts.

Trying to do it all himself or delegating work to friend of my friend with little experience or worse the wrestlers, is a recipe for disaster. AEW really is a disney resort for wrestlers. Khan needs to stop trying to be one of the boys or one of the guys who fears the top guys.

It amazes me they crack 1 mill, but they can do better with these changes

 

[shaz619]

If you have someone like Bryan and are unable to give him a prominent role build your company around, then maybe you aren't really that good of a booker or businessman.

I mean I like the stuff surrounding the BCC but I get your point to, he was the biggest baby face in the E, main eventing manias and working with the top guy and now he is utilised like a jobber. But perhaps with some of their top names gone, the likes of Jericho and Bryan may be featured more prominently closer to the top, their match on Dynamite this week did some great numbers in the key demo

 

[shaz619]

Yeah apparently he is a friend and supporter of that nutjob former NXT referee Drake Wuertz, who is a racist, conspiracy theorist and QAnon nut. He was fired by WWE last year because he supposedly went to a town-hall meeting in Florida (in his referee garb) to talk about his QAnon adjacent ' anti child-trafficking charity'...a charity that Fish seemingly supports. Don't even ask me to explain what this charity is about. Because just trying to understand it a year ago made my head hurt.

The thing about Fish that really made me laugh though were his comments directed at CM Punk. What basically happened was that he f**ked up (either deliberately or by accident) in that match against Punk last year on Dynamite and kicked out in what was supposed to be the finish. Punk apparently went to TK and told him that I'm not working with this guy again, which is a fairly legitimate gripe to have with someone that was unprofessional in the ring.

Well now that going after Punk has become everyone's favorite hobby these days, old Fish probably decided to join in. Funny thing is that though, for all his boasting about beating Punk in a 'shoot fight', no one is actually buying into the idea that a senior citizen is doing anything to anyone.

I saw some hilarious tweets on old man fish on social media I don’t know fake or not but funny in any case. Same, I don’t get too much into the personal these guys get into what a weird guy lol he has been burying Khan lately, wants Hunter to give him a call. Fish maybe he can fight but it’s a disgrace these guys make out they are elite level combat sports people when there is to show for it, Bryan would probably take him in a few minutes and he has never bragged about his training

 

[shaz619]

Yeah agreed. Edge needs to be having those dream matches that everyone wants him to have. There are many great wrestlers on the roster that he has not worked with. I mean, just imagine a program between Edge and KO. For some unknown reason though, he has been involved in this freaking Judgement Day crap for most of this year. How much longer will this last??

Yeah agreed there as well. Fish is nothing more than a tag team guy. With him and O'Reilly as a unit, you feel you are seeing a really compelling tag team. And truth be told, they are. Their MMA-inspired style/tandem offence is something I have always found cool. But as a singles guy, Fish does not have much to offer because he had plenty of singles matches in AEW and notoriously s**t the bed not just against Punk (as we know now) but also against Jeff Hardy, in that awful match from months ago that I still haven't been able to forget. The best you could get out of Grandpa Fish is by putting him in a tag-team with Roderick Strong.

As I said to shaz, I have never been a fan of Sheamus. But credit where credit is due. He got over big in that match against WALTER. Credit to H aswell who recognized that Sheamus's strength are these kind of hard-hitting, stiff matches...putting him with the guy that specializes in these kind of matches was a master-stroke, eventhough it seemed like a fairly obvious pairing on paper.

He has had similar matches with Wade in the early 2010’s which were a lot of fun, here in the UK’s we’re not too unfamiliar with this european style and I agree Gunther may be its best exponent, but for years here they thrilled. But as Bunny also alluded to, booking hasn’t been great and I would argue Wade Barett was on the worst side of it, so talented and immense potential, he should have been England’s first world champion, am still hoping it may be Pete Dunne one day who is from my home city and perhaps Tyler Bate (desperately trying to ignore the stuff he is into outside the ring)

 

[Suleiman]

Have retired from wrestling for a few years now, but still can’t believe Rey’s son is now in the picture, wrestling alongside his dad.

Feels just like yesterday where he was just a little guy and Eddie and Rey were having a custody match over him. WWE went to any lengths for a storyline back then lmao )

 

[alone1213]

World wrestling championship 2022 Belgrade

World wrestling championship begun on 10 September. Since wrestlers from Russia and Belarus have been barred from this event.

How did other countries do? Especially wrestlers from India who were unbeatable in the recently concluded commonwealth games.

I thought Indian wrestlers did extremely well in commonwealth games and some looked world class and very likeable as well.

Pakistani wrestlers looked very decent as well and they won few medals as well in commonwealth games.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah agreed. Edge needs to be having those dream matches that everyone wants him to have. There are many great wrestlers on the roster that he has not worked with. I mean, just imagine a program between Edge and KO. For some unknown reason though, he has been involved in this freaking Judgement Day crap for most of this year. How much longer will this last??

Yeah agreed there as well. Fish is nothing more than a tag team guy. With him and O'Reilly as a unit, you feel you are seeing a really compelling tag team. And truth be told, they are. Their MMA-inspired style/tandem offence is something I have always found cool. But as a singles guy, Fish does not have much to offer because he had plenty of singles matches in AEW and notoriously s**t the bed not just against Punk (as we know now) but also against Jeff Hardy, in that awful match from months ago that I still haven't been able to forget. The best you could get out of Grandpa Fish is by putting him in a tag-team with Roderick Strong.

As I said to shaz, I have never been a fan of Sheamus. But credit where credit is due. He got over big in that match against WALTER. Credit to H aswell who recognized that Sheamus's strength are these kind of hard-hitting, stiff matches...putting him with the guy that specializes in these kind of matches was a master-stroke, eventhough it seemed like a fairly obvious pairing on paper.

Same. I never found Sheamus interesting till his series of matches against McIntyre last year. I think rather than Trips, the credit should be given to Drew for vouching for having a storyline with Sheamus back then. Plus before that feud, Sheamus hadn't been booked as a dominant enough guy to stand toe to toe with the top card. And those matches were extremely good. Drew was even able to have a great feud with Ziggler for the WWE championship of all people considering how much of a jobber treatment Ziggler has had over the years killing all his chances to be considered for the top championship. Bringing Heath Slater for one off appearance was also Drew's idea even though Slater had already been released from WWE.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I mean I like the stuff surrounding the BCC but I get your point to, he was the biggest baby face in the E, main eventing manias and working with the top guy and now he is utilised like a jobber. But perhaps with some of their top names gone, the likes of Jericho and Bryan may be featured more prominently closer to the top, their match on Dynamite this week did some great numbers in the key demo

WWE even offered him to work in NJPW while being under the contract with them, that's how much they wanted to have him in the company. Yet here's Tony putting him in mid card feuds since he started. He was too hot with his debut against Omega and it just fizzled out from there.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He has had similar matches with Wade in the early 2010’s which were a lot of fun, here in the UK’s we’re not too unfamiliar with this european style and I agree Gunther may be its best exponent, but for years here they thrilled. But as Bunny also alluded to, booking hasn’t been great and I would argue Wade Barett was on the worst side of it, so talented and immense potential, he should have been England’s first world champion, am still hoping it may be Pete Dunne one day who is from my home city and perhaps Tyler Bate (desperately trying to ignore the stuff he is into outside the ring)

Yep. Agreed on Barrett. He got the worst end of the stick. Could talk, was pretty good in the ring and looked like a main-eventer too. For some reason though they stopped his push before it even began and from there on out he was always a mid-carder or guy they would laugh at. Loads of potential wasted.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Same. I never found Sheamus interesting till his series of matches against McIntyre last year. I think rather than Trips, the credit should be given to Drew for vouching for having a storyline with Sheamus back then. Plus before that feud, Sheamus hadn't been booked as a dominant enough guy to stand toe to toe with the top card. And those matches were extremely good. Drew was even able to have a great feud with Ziggler for the WWE championship of all people considering how much of a jobber treatment Ziggler has had over the years killing all his chances to be considered for the top championship. Bringing Heath Slater for one off appearance was also Drew's idea even though Slater had already been released from WWE.

I would argue that Sheamus was booked fairly well at certain points of his careers and has already had the kind of career that most wrestlers can only dream of having.

He was pushed as a top heel when he first came in and they allowed him to beat some tippy top guys like HHH, Cena and Orton. Then he had a major babyface run in 2012 as well back when the fans wanted Bryan on-top but they kept shoving him down our throats. He won the Rumble that year and had a notable reign as World Heavyweight Champion where he was booked strong.

I dunno about Ziggler. He's another guy whose hype I have never got. I've hated his gimmick and as far as his work is concerned he has always been a Curt Henning wannabee. Even during his best years. I hate his over-selling that he became notorious for after a certain point. For me a guy like him, who I always saw as a mid-carder has overachieved considering he is a former World Champion...something so many other, far superior wrestlers have only dreamed of doing.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Even in a consultancy capacity it would be fine, I’d have thought commentary would still be pretty taxing, wasn’t it why he had initially stopped doing it for a bit.

I agree that you can learn from his experience providing mistakes are recognised and rectified, Khan lets say he doesn’t hire a booker, and JC said this to that at the very least he should be willing to listen to those who are more experienced. And even if we ignore the AEW fans voice there has been an explosion waiting to happen with the EVP situation, he was advised on numerous occasions not to follow that path and this advice was given to him for free. Khan does listen to constructive criticism on the podcasts he looks at the pros and cons, am sure he probably listens to JC’s podcast more then most because it is the only one which isn’t on the elite kool aid. But I’ve not seen him make the big changes needed to be a professional set up.

Booking can be straight forward but I will not say to you it is because I’ve never done it and booking as a fan is different to the real thing, being a leader / commanding respect and managing a multitude of factors and personalities is a different ball game.

Tony can be the guy of he wants, but one thing which should be common sense and logical is to have experienced people around you and have a team, am not a big fan of haitch but this guy in media constantly emphasises the “team”. If you want to have the final say / input, great! but it doesn’t hurt to have a creative team of experienced writers/bookers, it doesn’t have to be like 20 people. And then implement basics like not giving too much power to his employees and having proper lawyers in place, you mentioned JR may not be ideal as a talent scout and fair enough, maybe they can find someone else who has experience with scouting and managing contracts.

Trying to do it all himself or delegating work to friend of my friend with little experience or worse the wrestlers, is a recipe for disaster. AEW really is a disney resort for wrestlers. Khan needs to stop trying to be one of the boys or one of the guys who fears the top guys.

It amazes me they crack 1 mill, but they can do better with these changes

Yeah I agree with you on that count. He definitely needs help and should definitely listen more to guys like Regal and JR. And from what I know, JR does have an advisory role with AEW. Not sure how much he is advising though. Also, something clearly needs to be done to build some structure in the back too. Because right now, it seems like that lack of structure is a major reason behind the chaos in AEW. And whether Tony wants to admit it or not, making three of his pro-wrestlers EVPs is one of the biggest reasons why that is the case. Because no matter who he hires in a backstage capacity, at the end of the day, they will be ranked below a guy who is a freakin' EVP in the hierarchy.

I feel like a lot more people are probably watching Dynamite than that through streaming. Knowing the current generation...even millennials, I just feel like the idea of sitting down for 2 hours and watching TV is not something they are that familiar with. But why Tony: 'the stats nut', does not have quantifiable numbers of how many people are watching online surprises me. Even if he doesn't have exact numbers he can talk about how many people are watching online but I've never even heard him mention it.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I thought Dynamite this week was just awesome. Some good TV matches at the start, followed by an awesome MJF promo. Didn't love the entire Stokely Hathaway deal that followed but they got me back with the Hobbs-Starks angle, which I did love. Hobbs is progressing so quickly but the highlight here was Ricky who came off as a massive star without even saying a word.

The highlight of the show though, was without a doubt the main-event: Danielson v Jericho. Now I know I have been very critical of Jericho in recent months. But ever since he has got in shape, I feel like he has genuinely turned over a new leaf. He's not working at the pace that he was in the early 2000s...nor can he. But he has adapted his style with his age really well because he is more than holding his own against guys who are fitter, faster, younger than he is. The first time we probably saw a different Jericho was probably the match against Moxley. But even there I felt like he had major issues trying not to get blown up.

In this match though, there were no such issues. Yeah Bryan is a magician who can have a great match with a broom-stick but I was legitimately impressed by what Jericho brought to this match. He kept up with Bryan all the way through and in alot of ways it was like watching the Jericho of old. Because from a psychology point of view, this match was worked to perfection.

I loved Jericho's match against Kingston at the Revolution PPV but this more than anything, is probably the best match he has had in AEW so far. And then he cut a freakin' awesome promo on Rampage too that was very reminiscent to a mid-200s Jericho promo. And now we are getting Jericho v Claudio for the ROH title at Arthur Ashe Stadium next week.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I would argue that Sheamus was booked fairly well at certain points of his careers and has already had the kind of career that most wrestlers can only dream of having.

He was pushed as a top heel when he first came in and they allowed him to beat some tippy top guys like HHH, Cena and Orton. Then he had a major babyface run in 2012 as well back when the fans wanted Bryan on-top but they kept shoving him down our throats. He won the Rumble that year and had a notable reign as World Heavyweight Champion where he was booked strong.

I dunno about Ziggler. He's another guy whose hype I have never got. I've hated his gimmick and as far as his work is concerned he has always been a Curt Henning wannabee. Even during his best years. I hate his over-selling that he became notorious for after a certain point. For me a guy like him, who I always saw as a mid-carder has overachieved considering he is a former World Champion...something so many other, far superior wrestlers have only dreamed of doing.

The strong booking that you mentioned, I like to call it anti booking. Having a guy win at the wrong time for audience to start hating him. That Rumble win was unnecessary for him and everyone wanted Y2J to win it.

I like Ziggler. He is a very well rounded guy that ticks a lot of boxes. Overselling is a slight issue yes, but I think he's certainly good enough to have a good match and a good feud with anyone. Much better than the likes of Del Rio, Khali and others who had a run at the top they didnt deserve.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I thought Dynamite this week was just awesome. Some good TV matches at the start, followed by an awesome MJF promo. Didn't love the entire Stokely Hathaway deal that followed but they got me back with the Hobbs-Starks angle, which I did love. Hobbs is progressing so quickly but the highlight here was Ricky who came off as a massive star without even saying a word.

The highlight of the show though, was without a doubt the main-event: Danielson v Jericho. Now I know I have been very critical of Jericho in recent months. But ever since he has got in shape, I feel like he has genuinely turned over a new leaf. He's not working at the pace that he was in the early 2000s...nor can he. But he has adapted his style with his age really well because he is more than holding his own against guys who are fitter, faster, younger than he is. The first time we probably saw a different Jericho was probably the match against Moxley. But even there I felt like he had major issues trying not to get blown up.

In this match though, there were no such issues. Yeah Bryan is a magician who can have a great match with a broom-stick but I was legitimately impressed by what Jericho brought to this match. He kept up with Bryan all the way through and in alot of ways it was like watching the Jericho of old. Because from a psychology point of view, this match was worked to perfection.

I loved Jericho's match against Kingston at the Revolution PPV but this more than anything, is probably the best match he has had in AEW so far. And then he cut a freakin' awesome promo on Rampage too that was very reminiscent to a mid-200s Jericho promo. And now we are getting Jericho v Claudio for the ROH title at Arthur Ashe Stadium next week.

The whole fiasco has probably awakened his Lion Heart I guess. Good for Jericho to be given more power so he isn't treated like a joke. The recent vacuum of star power has put the guys like Jericho Bryan and Mox back at the top which is where they belong. Putting them anywhere below that is just stupid especially for Bryan like I mentioned before. I guess that's what happens when you keep bloating up the roster without having enough on air time.

I feel Joe should be on the top card as well. I had actually forgotten Joe was signed by AEW. And Joe should be an unhinged heel.

 

[shaz619]

I thought Dynamite this week was just awesome. Some good TV matches at the start, followed by an awesome MJF promo. Didn't love the entire Stokely Hathaway deal that followed but they got me back with the Hobbs-Starks angle, which I did love. Hobbs is progressing so quickly but the highlight here was Ricky who came off as a massive star without even saying a word.

The highlight of the show though, was without a doubt the main-event: Danielson v Jericho. Now I know I have been very critical of Jericho in recent months. But ever since he has got in shape, I feel like he has genuinely turned over a new leaf. He's not working at the pace that he was in the early 2000s...nor can he. But he has adapted his style with his age really well because he is more than holding his own against guys who are fitter, faster, younger than he is. The first time we probably saw a different Jericho was probably the match against Moxley. But even there I felt like he had major issues trying not to get blown up.

In this match though, there were no such issues. Yeah Bryan is a magician who can have a great match with a broom-stick but I was legitimately impressed by what Jericho brought to this match. He kept up with Bryan all the way through and in alot of ways it was like watching the Jericho of old. Because from a psychology point of view, this match was worked to perfection.

I loved Jericho's match against Kingston at the Revolution PPV but this more than anything, is probably the best match he has had in AEW so far. And then he cut a freakin' awesome promo on Rampage too that was very reminiscent to a mid-200s Jericho promo. And now we are getting Jericho v Claudio for the ROH title at Arthur Ashe Stadium next week.

The whole fiasco has probably awakened his Lion Heart I guess. Good for Jericho to be given more power so he isn't treated like a joke. The recent vacuum of star power has put the guys like Jericho Bryan and Mox back at the top which is where they belong. Putting them anywhere below that is just stupid especially for Bryan like I mentioned before. I guess that's what happens when you keep bloating up the roster without having enough on air time.

I feel Joe should be on the top card as well. I had actually forgotten Joe was signed by AEW. And Joe should be an unhinged heel.

People have been too too harsh on Jericho, I’ve not doubted him for a second because what he puts out on TV has always been well intended, now some of it made for the perfect storm but Jericho has been the architect of it. However, he’s an all time great worker between the ropes, he doesn’t need his physical gifts to excel in the ring when his ring generalship has always been there, it comes down to what Jericho chooses to do and am glad he has picked this path because if I want him to leave wrestling in a blaze of glory. We’ve seen some very bad vets in the E but also fantastic examples to like Edge, Jericho is Jericho and his resume speaks for itself, if those guys could, there is no reason why he can’t but I believe he did get carried away in the asylum and going above / beyond to pander to AEW’s core group of marks. Lack of structure can be bad for even the best. Take Sting though, on the opposite spectrum he has been true to his presentation in the ring, he could have been a victim to and gone all terry funk on us as well but he has always be such a level headed fella, I hope to see him and Bryan work a singles match

 

[BunnyRabbit]

People have been too too harsh on Jericho, I’ve not doubted him for a second because what he puts out on TV has always been well intended, now some of it made for the perfect storm but Jericho has been the architect of it. However, he’s an all time great worker between the ropes, he doesn’t need his physical gifts to excel in the ring when his ring generalship has always been there, it comes down to what Jericho chooses to do and am glad he has picked this path because if I want him to leave wrestling in a blaze of glory. We’ve seen some very bad vets in the E but also fantastic examples to like Edge, Jericho is Jericho and his resume speaks for itself, if those guys could, there is no reason why he can’t but I believe he did get carried away in the asylum and going above / beyond to pander to AEW’s core group of marks. Lack of structure can be bad for even the best. Take Sting though, on the opposite spectrum he has been true to his presentation in the ring, he could have been a victim to and gone all terry funk on us as well but he has always be such a level headed fella, I hope to see him and Bryan work a singles match

Jericho definitely got carried away for some time by catering to marks. Hopefully the good old sane and responsible Y2J is back now.

What's your take on Joe's booking? I seriously think it's been worse than his time in WWE. There, he was actually built up like a badass during his feud with Lesnar.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The strong booking that you mentioned, I like to call it anti booking. Having a guy win at the wrong time for audience to start hating him. That Rumble win was unnecessary for him and everyone wanted Y2J to win it.

I like Ziggler. He is a very well rounded guy that ticks a lot of boxes. Overselling is a slight issue yes, but I think he's certainly good enough to have a good match and a good feud with anyone. Much better than the likes of Del Rio, Khali and others who had a run at the top they didnt deserve.

In this business, opportunities like the ones Sheamus (and guys like Del Rio) have gotten are few and far between. Once you're given a push, it's your job to get over. Sheamus was given main-event runs as a heel and a babyface. Don't think he made the most of either.

Ziggler is a good worker but not someone I have ever seen as a main-eventer. He is someone I would want on my roster though because he can have good TV matches and is a good utility guy when you want to get someone over.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

People have been too too harsh on Jericho, I’ve not doubted him for a second because what he puts out on TV has always been well intended, now some of it made for the perfect storm but Jericho has been the architect of it. However, he’s an all time great worker between the ropes, he doesn’t need his physical gifts to excel in the ring when his ring generalship has always been there, it comes down to what Jericho chooses to do and am glad he has picked this path because if I want him to leave wrestling in a blaze of glory. We’ve seen some very bad vets in the E but also fantastic examples to like Edge, Jericho is Jericho and his resume speaks for itself, if those guys could, there is no reason why he can’t but I believe he did get carried away in the asylum and going above / beyond to pander to AEW’s core group of marks. Lack of structure can be bad for even the best. Take Sting though, on the opposite spectrum he has been true to his presentation in the ring, he could have been a victim to and gone all terry funk on us as well but he has always be such a level headed fella, I hope to see him and Bryan work a singles match

I dunno. I feel the criticism has been valid because he has been involved in some pretty awful stuff since the pandemic. And I don't think I'm forgetting that Barbed Wire Atrocity anytime soon. But credit where credit is due, he has turned a corner

I think he was too fixated on doing something different and doing these long, drawn out storylines with not much logic. He was also badly out of shape and simply wasn't working particularly well in the ring. I don't think there's any great Jericho match in the first year of AEW. And even during that second year, the best match that he probably had was that first match against Orange Cassidy. But credit to him for improving leaps and bounds. And reminding us that he is infact Chris freakin' Jericho. I think the health scare he had last year probably had alot to do with it as well.

Looking forward to his match against Claudio at Arthur Ashe. If he wins, I would think that ROH is very close to getting a TV deal.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The whole fiasco has probably awakened his Lion Heart I guess. Good for Jericho to be given more power so he isn't treated like a joke. The recent vacuum of star power has put the guys like Jericho Bryan and Mox back at the top which is where they belong. Putting them anywhere below that is just stupid especially for Bryan like I mentioned before. I guess that's what happens when you keep bloating up the roster without having enough on air time.

I feel Joe should be on the top card as well. I had actually forgotten Joe was signed by AEW. And Joe should be an unhinged heel.

I love Joe but I don't think he is someone who can wrestle at the top of the card anymore. He has had multiple injuries in the last few years.

As far as his booking is concerned I don't think its been too bad. He is the ROH TV Champion who has had a number of notable victories and only one loss. He was out recently because he was filming a TV show so I don't think you can blame AEW for that. And he's wrestling next week at Arthur Ashe too.

I would like to see him in a compelling feud though. Because that's one thing that has been missing so far with him.

He's also probably someone that Tony wants to be the foundations of the ROH brand. So maybe there is much more planned for him that we haven't gotten to see because ROH hasn't gotten a TV deal yet.

 

[shaz619]

I dunno. I feel the criticism has been valid because he has been involved in some pretty awful stuff since the pandemic. And I don't think I'm forgetting that Barbed Wire Atrocity anytime soon. But credit where credit is due, he has turned a corner

I think he was too fixated on doing something different and doing these long, drawn out storylines with not much logic. He was also badly out of shape and simply wasn't working particularly well in the ring. I don't think there's any great Jericho match in the first year of AEW. And even during that second year, the best match that he probably had was that first match against Orange Cassidy. But credit to him for improving leaps and bounds. And reminding us that he is infact Chris freakin' Jericho. I think the health scare he had last year probably had alot to do with it as well.

Looking forward to his match against Claudio at Arthur Ashe. If he wins, I would think that ROH is very close to getting a TV deal.

His first year was pretty good and he is in better shape now then he was then, my favourite match was with Cody. Jericho doesn’t need to prance around for 7* matches but his work was solid and complimented his character work, he was having classic pro wrestling matches, not necessarily for a modern audience but his work was worthy of a PPV main event and really important that he was at the top of the card in AEW’s first year on PPV. My point is criticisms on what you’re seeing fair enough but criticisms like past it and too old etc were ridiculous, there are some out there who would even criticise someone like AJ Styles, and some of it is booking whether your own or someone else or your positioning or decision making. If a worker is truly past it and a has been they wouldn’t be able to return to a more technical style, this hasn’t been the focus for Jericho for some time, fair weather fans will comment on when there is a low or a high but I would have though for those who have watched him for years could see his ring generalship is something he can’t lose, and that’s the beauty with his style, it can age really well especially among AEW’s current audience, similarly for Bryan as well, these guys can go on for ages without giving into their worst impulses, this is why I feel Bret is the GOAT technical worker because he rarely gave into his worst impulses, was heavy on safety (his own / opponents) and relied heavily on his psychology, we saw it from Bryan in the E post injury but it seems he had reverted back to type and while it is entertaining, he is good enough not to go to that place, same with Jericho really

 

[shaz619]

Jericho definitely got carried away for some time by catering to marks. Hopefully the good old sane and responsible Y2J is back now.

What's your take on Joe's booking? I seriously think it's been worse than his time in WWE. There, he was actually built up like a badass during his feud with Lesnar.

Yes for sure, he has recognised the need to focus on this more after the backlash from the Kingston match.

I've not been less interested in Joe or Cesaro for such a long time right now. ROH has been treated like the C show and the stars who have featured on it so far, have not been treated as well as they should have been on Dynamite, I would add FTR to that list to, just look at their highly critically acclaimed match with the Briscoe's for example, it was barely promoted. Some of it is politics and also, just gross negligence and incompetence. I don't know what their TV situation is with ROH but clearly they need to do more. I don't know if Gabe Sapolsky is still a free agent but if he is, with all that unlimited supply of Daddy's money, it's about time TK put it to good use and stop being a mark, it may be too late though given HHH's relationship with Gabe is a positive one as he helped with shaping the vision for the black and gold era of NXT, it was kept secret at the time because Hunter wanted to drink in all the praise, but finally it became public knowledge around 2018 that Gabe had been hired as a consultant and was booking the NXT weekly episodes having brokered the deal between WWE and EVOLVE.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]

Am looking into getting the Steam Deck if all goes well. I know you can run modern games on it but from what I've looked into / other devices, the price you pay for the performance you get is ridiculous, hands down the best device for emulation.

It would be nuts to be able to play all of these classics on one device and from what I've seen on YT, run a decent FPS to:

- WCW vs NWO Revenge / WM 2000 / WWF No Mercy : Am not 100% sure, but there may be an opportunity to run some of the No Mercy mods to.

- SD 2: Know Your Role

- WWE Here Comes The Pain: PS2

- WWE SvR 2006: I never played the PS2 version, but heard it was meant to be better

And then add AEW Fight Forever to the list and what a great collection it would be because that game is also being released for Windows and I imagine it should get released on Steam to.

It's multi purpose device and may be able to use Microsoft Office via the browser or app

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]

Am looking into getting the Steam Deck if all goes well. I know you can run modern games on it but from what I've looked into / other devices, the price you pay for the performance you get is ridiculous, hands down the best device for emulation.

It would be nuts to be able to play all of these classics on one device and from what I've seen on YT, run a decent FPS to:

- WCW vs NWO Revenge / WM 2000 / WWF No Mercy : Am not 100% sure, but there may be an opportunity to run some of the No Mercy mods to.

- SD 2: Know Your Role

- WWE Here Comes The Pain: PS2

- WWE SvR 2006: I never played the PS2 version, but heard it was meant to be better

And then add AEW Fight Forever to the list and what a great collection it would be because that game is also being released for Windows and I imagine it should get released on Steam to.

It's multi purpose device and may be able to use Microsoft Office via the browser or app

I am not very updated about new consoles. The mod that is on my PSP allows me to play PS1 and sega classics already. I have SD 1 and SD2 in addition to classics like tekken 1,2,3 in my PSP still.

What a great creation PSP still is.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

His first year was pretty good and he is in better shape now then he was then, my favourite match was with Cody. Jericho doesn’t need to prance around for 7* matches but his work was solid and complimented his character work, he was having classic pro wrestling matches, not necessarily for a modern audience but his work was worthy of a PPV main event and really important that he was at the top of the card in AEW’s first year on PPV. My point is criticisms on what you’re seeing fair enough but criticisms like past it and too old etc were ridiculous, there are some out there who would even criticise someone like AJ Styles, and some of it is booking whether your own or someone else or your positioning or decision making. If a worker is truly past it and a has been they wouldn’t be able to return to a more technical style, this hasn’t been the focus for Jericho for some time, fair weather fans will comment on when there is a low or a high but I would have though for those who have watched him for years could see his ring generalship is something he can’t lose, and that’s the beauty with his style, it can age really well especially among AEW’s current audience, similarly for Bryan as well, these guys can go on for ages without giving into their worst impulses, this is why I feel Bret is the GOAT technical worker because he rarely gave into his worst impulses, was heavy on safety (his own / opponents) and relied heavily on his psychology, we saw it from Bryan in the E post injury but it seems he had reverted back to type and while it is entertaining, he is good enough not to go to that place, same with Jericho really

His first year in AEW was great in every aspect except his wrestling. Yeah there were some good matches but nothing especially great or upto the level he had been performing till 2017-18. At the end of the day, I think he just needs to be himself. He is one of the greatest minds in the history of the business. I will cut him some slack because the pandemic was just an awful time and you really had to come up with unconventional ideas. But I'm glad to see him stepping up and taking responsibility as one of the vets of the locker-room and the biggest name in the company right now.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]

Am looking into getting the Steam Deck if all goes well. I know you can run modern games on it but from what I've looked into / other devices, the price you pay for the performance you get is ridiculous, hands down the best device for emulation.

It would be nuts to be able to play all of these classics on one device and from what I've seen on YT, run a decent FPS to:

- WCW vs NWO Revenge / WM 2000 / WWF No Mercy : Am not 100% sure, but there may be an opportunity to run some of the No Mercy mods to.

- SD 2: Know Your Role

- WWE Here Comes The Pain: PS2

- WWE SvR 2006: I never played the PS2 version, but heard it was meant to be better

And then add AEW Fight Forever to the list and what a great collection it would be because that game is also being released for Windows and I imagine it should get released on Steam to.

It's multi purpose device and may be able to use Microsoft Office via the browser or app

That's great bro. I played all these games last year on emulators...and enjoyed the heck out of them. So I'd say you're in for a treat. I would also rec SvR 2007 just because I think its one of the greatest wrestling games ever and the GM Mode is bit more polished from yesteryear as well. 2008 unfortunately has ECW which really effs up the draft.

Yeah very much pumped for Fight Forever. I'm even contemplating getting it for the original price because I doubt there will be any big sales near the time this game is being released which seems like early 2023.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Seems like your wish came true because the next Survivor Series will be called Survivor Series: WarGames. Amazing to think that one of WWE's biggest and oldest PPVs will be WarGames themed: a match that is almost always exclusively associated with Dusty Rhodes and Crockett/WCW. And a match that WWE spent years ripping off...first with the Hell in A Cell and then with the Elimination Chamber.

WarGames is one of the coolest and simplest matches in pro-wrestling. But the way that it has been revived in the modern age has largely disappointed me. NXT did a couple of awesome WarGames matches. But TNA's low-budget single ring WarGames matches almost always sucked. And AEW so far has dropped the ball both times with their annual Blood & Guts match. So I'm seriously hoping that WWE delivers with this. Because if HHH wants, he can put together a seriously awesome match of two great teams from each brand. Infact the dynamic could be different and even more interesting here because chances are that it won't be a straight-up heel team v babyface team match like it usually is. And that there will probably be heels and babyfaces on both teams.

For me, someone like Roman Reigns needs to be in this match too considering he has both belts and won't be doing the champion v champion match anyway. But that might be wishful thinking considering how protective WWE are of him. I mean he doesn't even do Elimination Chamber matches.

 

[The_KING]

[MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]

Am looking into getting the Steam Deck if all goes well. I know you can run modern games on it but from what I've looked into / other devices, the price you pay for the performance you get is ridiculous, hands down the best device for emulation.

It would be nuts to be able to play all of these classics on one device and from what I've seen on YT, run a decent FPS to:

- WCW vs NWO Revenge / WM 2000 / WWF No Mercy : Am not 100% sure, but there may be an opportunity to run some of the No Mercy mods to.

- SD 2: Know Your Role

- WWE Here Comes The Pain: PS2

- WWE SvR 2006: I never played the PS2 version, but heard it was meant to be better

And then add AEW Fight Forever to the list and what a great collection it would be because that game is also being released for Windows and I imagine it should get released on Steam to.

It's multi purpose device and may be able to use Microsoft Office via the browser or app

Add Shut Your Mouth and SVR 2007 to your list. Both great games.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Seems like your wish came true because the next Survivor Series will be called Survivor Series: WarGames. Amazing to think that one of WWE's biggest and oldest PPVs will be WarGames themed: a match that is almost always exclusively associated with Dusty Rhodes and Crockett/WCW. And a match that WWE spent years ripping off...first with the Hell in A Cell and then with the Elimination Chamber.

WarGames is one of the coolest and simplest matches in pro-wrestling. But the way that it has been revived in the modern age has largely disappointed me. NXT did a couple of awesome WarGames matches. But TNA's low-budget single ring WarGames matches almost always sucked. And AEW so far has dropped the ball both times with their annual Blood & Guts match. So I'm seriously hoping that WWE delivers with this. Because if HHH wants, he can put together a seriously awesome match of two great teams from each brand. Infact the dynamic could be different and even more interesting here because chances are that it won't be a straight-up heel team v babyface team match like it usually is. And that there will probably be heels and babyfaces on both teams.

For me, someone like Roman Reigns needs to be in this match too considering he has both belts and won't be doing the champion v champion match anyway. But that might be wishful thinking considering how protective WWE are of him. I mean he doesn't even do Elimination Chamber matches.

All of the men NXT wargames matches have been great except the first one which didn't really have much storyline going into it.

Wargames 2 is a personal favorite of mine with UE vs Ricochet,Dunne and Raiders. That was a perfect match in my opinion.

Wargames 4 was brilliant too where UE switched the alignment and were faces for the first time.

Wargames 5 although a very well wrestled match but having the black and gold vets losing to the green rookies was just a downer.

 

[shaz619]

His first year in AEW was great in every aspect except his wrestling. Yeah there were some good matches but nothing especially great or upto the level he had been performing till 2017-18. At the end of the day, I think he just needs to be himself. He is one of the greatest minds in the history of the business. I will cut him some slack because the pandemic was just an awful time and you really had to come up with unconventional ideas. But I'm glad to see him stepping up and taking responsibility as one of the vets of the locker-room and the biggest name in the company right now.

You reckon? I recall being impressed, Jericho/Cody was my favourite and an RA era style match which I loved.

From what I remember, AEW were pretty clever with Jericho’s first title run and made people pay to see him wrestle and as a result, there weren’t many matches which he worked in 2019 but they were as follows including some NJPW opponents:

Naito - Good
Omega - Average, not PPV quality, Omega has been a flop as a singles star in North America
Okada - Great
Page - Good
Cody - Fantastic

The character work was outstanding, Le Champion was brilliant lol that’s the last character I enjoyed so much from him, which is pretty staggering still when you look at how many years he has been doing this despite the dip recently

But I admit I recall the Cody match most, maybe the others had too much going on but it may give me reason to watch some of these matches again given your view

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Seems like your wish came true because the next Survivor Series will be called Survivor Series: WarGames. Amazing to think that one of WWE's biggest and oldest PPVs will be WarGames themed: a match that is almost always exclusively associated with Dusty Rhodes and Crockett/WCW. And a match that WWE spent years ripping off...first with the Hell in A Cell and then with the Elimination Chamber.

WarGames is one of the coolest and simplest matches in pro-wrestling. But the way that it has been revived in the modern age has largely disappointed me. NXT did a couple of awesome WarGames matches. But TNA's low-budget single ring WarGames matches almost always sucked. And AEW so far has dropped the ball both times with their annual Blood & Guts match. So I'm seriously hoping that WWE delivers with this. Because if HHH wants, he can put together a seriously awesome match of two great teams from each brand. Infact the dynamic could be different and even more interesting here because chances are that it won't be a straight-up heel team v babyface team match like it usually is. And that there will probably be heels and babyfaces on both teams.

For me, someone like Roman Reigns needs to be in this match too considering he has both belts and won't be doing the champion v champion match anyway. But that might be wishful thinking considering how protective WWE are of him. I mean he doesn't even do Elimination Chamber matches.

This is mouthwatering to say the least, I am surprised they are going all out already. And I don’t know, because the Elimination Chamber was pretty unique and Hell in a Cell basically a cage with a roof on it. Wrestling is a constant recycling of ideas but I feel those two have little similarity with WarGames which I find to be a separate and highly creative entity in its own right given the two rings, the rules etc it was basically two cages together and made for an epic visual and the rules allowed for some epic ring action. But what I would agree with you on is that WWE wanted to have their own notorious gimmick matches and I feel deep down envied the WarGames structure even though they owned the IP, thus we had not seen it utilised until Hunter signed it off.

Can you imagine the pop when we get to see 5* Cody at SS next year in this match? he has desperately tried to get the IP back for this but this will be super cool next year.

I liked TNA’s Lockdown events with the 6 sided cage, not everything was perfect but it was a guilty pleasure. Not been too into blood and guts, I liked the idea behind it but it boggled my mind they put that out for an episodic TV and put me off tuning in, because I can’t watch a match like that just as filler, even with special billing

You never know I would have thought he could with the blood line and Sami, given the PPV will use the War Games billing in advertising I feel the champion would and should compete in the match, but really excited for it, I feel it will deliver if the NXT ones are anything to go by

 

[shaz619]

That's great bro. I played all these games last year on emulators...and enjoyed the heck out of them. So I'd say you're in for a treat. I would also rec SvR 2007 just because I think its one of the greatest wrestling games ever and the GM Mode is bit more polished from yesteryear as well. 2008 unfortunately has ECW which really effs up the draft.

Yeah very much pumped for Fight Forever. I'm even contemplating getting it for the original price because I doubt there will be any big sales near the time this game is being released which seems like early 2023.

Ah 2007 was pretty good to and I never played the PS2 version which may be even better then the PSP one. I loved the interaction in the crowd area and how you could fight there as well. Yes, same here, am going to get it as soon as it is released on Steam, might be a little later though. At best you may save 5-10 quid later but with prices right now an early discount is unlikely until the black friday event in 2023

 

[shaz619]

Add Shut Your Mouth and SVR 2007 to your list. Both great games.

Good shout Shut your mouth is an iconic game and for me the cover art was one of the best ever

 

[shaz619]

I am not very updated about new consoles. The mod that is on my PSP allows me to play PS1 and sega classics already. I have SD 1 and SD2 in addition to classics like tekken 1,2,3 in my PSP still.

What a great creation PSP still is.

Yes mind is mod compatible to but I’ve not put any games on it for years, agree PSP imo is one of the greatest handhelds of all time, the vita maybe even better for emulation

 

[Suleiman]

Good shout Shut your mouth is an iconic game and for me the cover art was one of the best ever

SvR 2008-2009 were the best SvRs made imo. Delivered many a phainti to a number of jobbers with my 7’ custom made character.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yes mind is mod compatible to but I’ve not put any games on it for years, agree PSP imo is one of the greatest handhelds of all time, the vita maybe even better for emulation

Never got to play Vita. Heard it didn't have many games released for it.

I put a lot of games around 10-12 years ago. dgen for sega classics. I love playing The Lion King, Sonic, Tiny Toons, Strider etc
For PS1, SD1 and 2, Hercules, Tarzan are still there.
The exclusive PSP games, wwe 2011, nfs, tekken are still there.

I have forgotten how to use it though, but it still works pretty well.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You reckon? I recall being impressed, Jericho/Cody was my favourite and an RA era style match which I loved.

From what I remember, AEW were pretty clever with Jericho’s first title run and made people pay to see him wrestle and as a result, there weren’t many matches which he worked in 2019 but they were as follows including some NJPW opponents:

Naito - Good
Omega - Average, not PPV quality, Omega has been a flop as a singles star in North America
Okada - Great
Page - Good
Cody - Fantastic

The character work was outstanding, Le Champion was brilliant lol that’s the last character I enjoyed so much from him, which is pretty staggering still when you look at how many years he has been doing this despite the dip recently

But I admit I recall the Cody match most, maybe the others had too much going on but it may give me reason to watch some of these matches again given your view

They were smart with using Jericho. And I agree that his character work was outstanding in that first year. His feud with Moxley was probably my favorite thing from the first year of AEW. But as far as ring-work was concerned I was not particularly impressed. Especially when you consider the kind of match he had with Omega at Tokyo Dome just a couple of years prior.

Yeah there were some good matches. The match against Cody was one. The match against Mox was alright as well. But I did not feel there was anything particularly memorable there. And that includes his NJPW matches

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This is mouthwatering to say the least, I am surprised they are going all out already. And I donÂ’t know, because the Elimination Chamber was pretty unique and Hell in a Cell basically a cage with a roof on it. Wrestling is a constant recycling of ideas but I feel those two have little similarity with WarGames which I find to be a separate and highly creative entity in its own right given the two rings, the rules etc it was basically two cages together and made for an epic visual and the rules allowed for some epic ring action. But what I would agree with you on is that WWE wanted to have their own notorious gimmick matches and I feel deep down envied the WarGames structure even though they owned the IP, thus we had not seen it utilised until Hunter signed it off.

Can you imagine the pop when we get to see 5* Cody at SS next year in this match? he has desperately tried to get the IP back for this but this will be super cool next year.

I liked TNAÂ’s Lockdown events with the 6 sided cage, not everything was perfect but it was a guilty pleasure. Not been too into blood and guts, I liked the idea behind it but it boggled my mind they put that out for an episodic TV and put me off tuning in, because I canÂ’t watch a match like that just as filler, even with special billing

You never know I would have thought he could with the blood line and Sami, given the PPV will use the War Games billing in advertising I feel the champion would and should compete in the match, but really excited for it, I feel it will deliver if the NXT ones are anything to go by

Cody would be great in this match. He is someone I can easily see leading the babyface team in a future WarGames match. But yes, your idea is pretty good too. A WarGames match between The Bloodline and the top babyfaces like Drew, KO, Sheamus, AJ (?) would be quite good. I just hope WWE doesn't *******ize this match by adding their quirks though...like making it an Elimination WarGames match or something. We've already seen them do that with the Steel Cage match (the absolute dumbest way to do a Steel Cage match btw). I'm thinking that they probably won't, just because HHH is a big fan of Dusty and grew up on Crockett/NWA, but honestly you never know.

Ngl as a guilty pleasure they were infact great. A couple of them from the early years of TNA were actually quite fun too. Back when Christian, Nash, Angle, Booker, AJ, Steiner, Jarrett were all working on the active roster. During the later years though, I think they just became hotchpotch of overbooked garbage featuring ex-WWE guys.

As far as the best WarGames matches are concerned besides the popular pick: Sting's Squadron v Dangerous Alliance from Fall Brawl 1992, I gotta give a shout-out to Team nWo vs. Team WCW from Fall Brawl 1996: one of THE best matches from arguably the greatest time in the history of WCW.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]

Thoughts on Dynamite?

Opener was great and I loved the finish, the hilarious thing about it was how prior to the show I listened to some of the experience and again, these guys must have a crystal ball because they were right about Jericho and his motives

What else was there before I forget, the tag match was a bit messy at times but I will look at the positive which was The Acclaimed going over, for once fans were allowed to like something and it was a great moment

The main event was solid as expected and the right person went over.

All in all I don’t want to nitpick because this was glorified PPV show which we basically got for free on TV and it was only 2 hours, with that in mind it was fantastic. Was it a sell out? am not sure

For Rampage,

I’ve only watched the opener so far and what a car crash it was with so many unsafe and unprofessional spots in the match, I hope everyone came out of that safe and sound, Sting didn’t need to take that horrible bump and nor did that lady need to either, she almost broke her neck. But it was a mark out moment to see Sting/Muta, but man this was disturbing to watch that match, they’ve used Sting pretty well so far but got carried away here, if they put him through all this, why can’t he work a singles match with a safe worker…..

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]

Thoughts on Dynamite?

Opener was great and I loved the finish, the hilarious thing about it was how prior to the show I listened to some of the experience and again, these guys must have a crystal ball because they were right about Jericho and his motives

What else was there before I forget, the tag match was a bit messy at times but I will look at the positive which was The Acclaimed going over, for once fans were allowed to like something and it was a great moment

The main event was solid as expected and the right person went over.

All in all I don’t want to nitpick because this was glorified PPV show which we basically got for free on TV and it was only 2 hours, with that in mind it was fantastic. Was it a sell out? am not sure

For Rampage,

I’ve only watched the opener so far and what a car crash it was with so many unsafe and unprofessional spots in the match, I hope everyone came out of that safe and sound, Sting didn’t need to take that horrible bump and nor did that lady need to either, she almost broke her neck. But it was a mark out moment to see Sting/Muta, but man this was disturbing to watch that match, they’ve used Sting pretty well so far but got carried away here, if they put him through all this, why can’t he work a singles match with a safe worker…..

I think we have very similar thoughts on this. Excellent show, The biggest thing that stood out to me from the outset was that it felt like a big show. Doing this show in Arthur Ashe every year allows AEW to do a stadium show without actually doing a stadium show. On top of that, the crowd was hot and while I'm not sure if it was a sell-out or not, the way the shot it, sure made it feel like one. And I think at the end of the day that's all that matters. They also did a million dollar gate which is great business and the kind of business that they usually do for a PPV.

Coming to the show, I thought there was alot of good to great wrestling on here but doing three screwy finishes in a row felt completely unnecessary to me.

It made perfect sense in the first match though. Jericho vs. Claudio. An awesome match and a match that the crowd was very hot for. They did alot of innovative stuff here which I wasn't expecting. Claudio going for the Ricola Bomb off the second rope, only to be countered with a pitch-perfect Frankensteiner by Jericho was beautiful....much like most of this match.

It's easy to s**t on the idea of Jericho as ROH World Champion. But doing so would mean you are ignoring the various merits that this could bring. (a) If they are getting the TV deal for ROH, Jericho being Champion makes the most sense because his is the biggest name star they have right now. (b) Even if they don't have a TV deal they could drive up PPV buys for future ROH PPVs with the belt on Jericho. (c) You could use Jericho to put over Claudio or Bryan at Final Battle at the end of the year. Something that could elevate both guys...especially Claudio.

The Acclaimed v Swerve in Our Glory was okay. Sloppy in spots and sluggish in others. It was not even in the stratosphere of their last match, which was pure magic and lightening in a bottle. I still feel they should have put the belts on The Acclaimed on that PPV, but that said, when they won here they got a monster pop. It was a great moment and I think everyone (myself included) was just happy so see these two---who are legit homegrown AEW talents---go out there and get themselves over. I love Max Caster trying to be Cena with his awesome feats of strength. In the last match he gave Keith Lee an FU. This match, he suplexed him...both spots were awesome. I have also become a major fan of Swerve Strickland in recent weeks, who I think is majorly talented both in the ring and as a heel.

PAC v Orange Cassidy was a pretty good match. Cassidy for me is the exception to the rule that comedy has no place in wrestling. I enjoyed him wrestling serious here because it was a Championship match but the finish left alot to be desired. They could have put PAC over here and it wouldn't have hurt Cassidy, who is already hugely popular.

The MJF segment was brilliant. Every week I am laughing my a** off at MJF trying to get the crowd to boo him. And somehow he always manages to do so in the end. This week though he had an uphill task against the smarkiest of the smark crowds: the New York fans. But he still pulled it off again and I think the kicker was the line about Regal popping pills and him pushing Schiavone aside lmao. I guess we'll finally be seeing MJF wrestle next week and beat old Wheelsy in his hometown, which should be fun.

The Women's match was kinda meh. Kind of a hotchpotch of all four girls trying to get an advantage without anyone actually getting one. They also had 9 minutes which isn't enough time to do much of anything. Ultimately I think this was all about Paige's return. Let's see what happens there.

Finally we had the main-event and I thought this was an outstanding match and easily the best match on the show. Not only did both guys beat the snot out of each other but they did some incredible wrestling. I didn't mind the kicking out of finishers because I think it works in a big main-event match like this one. Could have done without the constant cutting to get MJF's reactions, which I thought took away from the match. But that's a minor quip. Could have seen either guy win here but I concur that ultimately Mox was the right guy to win. Because I think him against MJF would just be a better dynamic than MJF v Danielson. Very much looking forward to this feud (at the next PPV?)...especially the promos.

 

[shaz619]

I think we have very similar thoughts on this. Excellent show, The biggest thing that stood out to me from the outset was that it felt like a big show. Doing this show in Arthur Ashe every year allows AEW to do a stadium show without actually doing a stadium show. On top of that, the crowd was hot and while I'm not sure if it was a sell-out or not, the way the shot it, sure made it feel like one. And I think at the end of the day that's all that matters. They also did a million dollar gate which is great business and the kind of business that they usually do for a PPV.

Coming to the show, I thought there was alot of good to great wrestling on here but doing three screwy finishes in a row felt completely unnecessary to me.

It made perfect sense in the first match though. Jericho vs. Claudio. An awesome match and a match that the crowd was very hot for. They did alot of innovative stuff here which I wasn't expecting. Claudio going for the Ricola Bomb off the second rope, only to be countered with a pitch-perfect Frankensteiner by Jericho was beautiful....much like most of this match.

It's easy to s**t on the idea of Jericho as ROH World Champion. But doing so would mean you are ignoring the various merits that this could bring. (a) If they are getting the TV deal for ROH, Jericho being Champion makes the most sense because his is the biggest name star they have right now. (b) Even if they don't have a TV deal they could drive up PPV buys for future ROH PPVs with the belt on Jericho. (c) You could use Jericho to put over Claudio or Bryan at Final Battle at the end of the year. Something that could elevate both guys...especially Claudio.

The Acclaimed v Swerve in Our Glory was okay. Sloppy in spots and sluggish in others. It was not even in the stratosphere of their last match, which was pure magic and lightening in a bottle. I still feel they should have put the belts on The Acclaimed on that PPV, but that said, when they won here they got a monster pop. It was a great moment and I think everyone (myself included) was just happy so see these two---who are legit homegrown AEW talents---go out there and get themselves over. I love Max Caster trying to be Cena with his awesome feats of strength. In the last match he gave Keith Lee an FU. This match, he suplexed him...both spots were awesome. I have also become a major fan of Swerve Strickland in recent weeks, who I think is majorly talented both in the ring and as a heel.

PAC v Orange Cassidy was a pretty good match. Cassidy for me is the exception to the rule that comedy has no place in wrestling. I enjoyed him wrestling serious here because it was a Championship match but the finish left alot to be desired. They could have put PAC over here and it wouldn't have hurt Cassidy, who is already hugely popular.

The MJF segment was brilliant. Every week I am laughing my a** off at MJF trying to get the crowd to boo him. And somehow he always manages to do so in the end. This week though he had an uphill task against the smarkiest of the smark crowds: the New York fans. But he still pulled it off again and I think the kicker was the line about Regal popping pills and him pushing Schiavone aside lmao. I guess we'll finally be seeing MJF wrestle next week and beat old Wheelsy in his hometown, which should be fun.

The Women's match was kinda meh. Kind of a hotchpotch of all four girls trying to get an advantage without anyone actually getting one. They also had 9 minutes which isn't enough time to do much of anything. Ultimately I think this was all about Paige's return. Let's see what happens there.

Finally we had the main-event and I thought this was an outstanding match and easily the best match on the show. Not only did both guys beat the snot out of each other but they did some incredible wrestling. I didn't mind the kicking out of finishers because I think it works in a big main-event match like this one. Could have done without the constant cutting to get MJF's reactions, which I thought took away from the match. But that's a minor quip. Could have seen either guy win here but I concur that ultimately Mox was the right guy to win. Because I think him against MJF would just be a better dynamic than MJF v Danielson. Very much looking forward to this feud (at the next PPV?)...especially the promos.

Yes! that MJF promo was outstanding, he completely buried Yuta LOOL but every word was true ) and a good spot on his reactions during the match, I felt they greatly added to the match / imminent feud for the title. Yes plus as you said before, Mox is the face with a great deal of momentum and fan sympathy. Bryan is not playing that character currently and I feel that Bryan / MJF will still happen, MJF is essentially feuding with Black Pool Cu Club LOL it will add more layers of depth to the chase for the title, Jericho is a heel and the next big face star besides Mox is Bryan and MJF needs to be established as a main eventer before he wins the big one with some high level wins, this is why Bryan losing to Garcia looks even worse now but Bryan is Bryan at the end of the day and he can help MJF massively

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes! that MJF promo was outstanding, he completely buried Yuta LOOL but every word was true ) and a good spot on his reactions during the match, I felt they greatly added to the match / imminent feud for the title. Yes plus as you said before, Mox is the face with a great deal of momentum and fan sympathy. Bryan is not playing that character currently and I feel that Bryan / MJF will still happen, MJF is essentially feuding with Black Pool Cu Club LOL it will add more layers of depth to the chase for the title, Jericho is a heel and the next big face star besides Mox is Bryan and MJF needs to be established as a main eventer before he wins the big one with some high level wins, this is why Bryan losing to Garcia looks even worse now but Bryan is Bryan at the end of the day and he can help MJF massively

Yeah and him going through Yuta makes sense in a backward sort of a way. Usually you have the babyface go through a guy from the heel's group before their big match. Here its the opposite. But it does work.

As much as I love Danielson I kinda hate how much little time he has gotten on the mic ever since that feud with Page. I get that they have Regal and that Regal can talk his a** off. But Danielson is a pretty excellent promo himself. He should be showcasing more of his verbal ability on the mic. That's something that badly needs to change because it takes away from what a complete package Bryan Danielson is.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]

Thoughts on Dynamite?

Opener was great and I loved the finish, the hilarious thing about it was how prior to the show I listened to some of the experience and again, these guys must have a crystal ball because they were right about Jericho and his motives

What else was there before I forget, the tag match was a bit messy at times but I will look at the positive which was The Acclaimed going over, for once fans were allowed to like something and it was a great moment

The main event was solid as expected and the right person went over.

All in all I don’t want to nitpick because this was glorified PPV show which we basically got for free on TV and it was only 2 hours, with that in mind it was fantastic. Was it a sell out? am not sure

For Rampage,

I’ve only watched the opener so far and what a car crash it was with so many unsafe and unprofessional spots in the match, I hope everyone came out of that safe and sound, Sting didn’t need to take that horrible bump and nor did that lady need to either, she almost broke her neck. But it was a mark out moment to see Sting/Muta, but man this was disturbing to watch that match, they’ve used Sting pretty well so far but got carried away here, if they put him through all this, why can’t he work a singles match with a safe worker…..

Half way through Rampage and I gotta say I am really enjoying this show. Very different from Dynamite in that it is not a show with PPV-caliber matches. But what it does seem to have is entertaining shorter matches, which is a welcome change of pace from the work-rate on offer on Dynamite.

I gotta agree with you again. As fun as that House of Black v Sting/Darby match was, it was also deeply disturbing in spots. The worst was by far that Julia Hart spot you mentioned where she grazed the table...completely missing most of it...and landed neck first on the concrete.

Other than that, Hook and Action Bronson also had a fairly enjoyable, short match against 2point0. Bronson did the bare minimum and it was perfect because that's all he really needed to do.

Wardlow and Joe had an entertaining squash match against Woods/Nese that finished before you could even blink. And once again Joe reminded me why he is the epitome of 'less is more'. Watching this match I got the feeling that there is no one besides who can make even the smallest thing mean so much. Whether its a chop, a uranagi or that trademark Joe walk-away. This was just a squash match but it still amazes me what a massive star Joe came off as in this match.

Other than that, I also saw Jungle Boy vs. Fenix which was a fun Lucha style match. But one that explicably got 16+ minutes on a show with 8 matches and a main-event featuring Hobbs and Starks in the Lights Out match.

That is honestly the only match I am looking forward to right now so I would be majorly disappointed if they don't get enough time.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Is it just me or has the empty-headed DF completely lost his momentum? Got a totally lukewarm jobber reception in the Battle Royal. Danhausen was a million times more over than him. And most people did not care when he won either.

Looking forward to Mox beating him in his hometown of Cincinnati. I'm glad they aren't wasting a PPV on this match. Before Mox went to rehab, he was supposed to feud with Page as a heel. And that feud was supposed to establish Page's World title run. Funny how things end up working out in this business.

Really enjoyed Starks v Hobbs. Easily the best match on this Rampage show. Although they could have easily gone another 3-4 minutes and it still would have been great.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Is it just me or has the empty-headed DF completely lost his momentum? Got a totally lukewarm jobber reception in the Battle Royal. Danhausen was a million times more over than him. And most people did not care when he won either.

Looking forward to Mox beating him in his hometown of Cincinnati. I'm glad they aren't wasting a PPV on this match. Before Mox went to rehab, he was supposed to feud with Page as a heel. And that feud was supposed to establish Page's World title run. Funny how things end up working out in this business.

Really enjoyed Starks v Hobbs. Easily the best match on this Rampage show. Although they could have easily gone another 3-4 minutes and it still would have been great.

Should be a perfect time to legitimize Adam Cole as a top card guy here. He was booked like a loser in his feud with Page.

 

[shaz619]

Is it just me or has the empty-headed DF completely lost his momentum? Got a totally lukewarm jobber reception in the Battle Royal. Danhausen was a million times more over than him. And most people did not care when he won either.

Looking forward to Mox beating him in his hometown of Cincinnati. I'm glad they aren't wasting a PPV on this match. Before Mox went to rehab, he was supposed to feud with Page as a heel. And that feud was supposed to establish Page's World title run. Funny how things end up working out in this business.

Really enjoyed Starks v Hobbs. Easily the best match on this Rampage show. Although they could have easily gone another 3-4 minutes and it still would have been great.

The decision is mind boggling but with the heat around him TK is turning him but it’s poor leadership to give this guy a shot after he single handedly eliminated the biggest star the company ever had

 

[shaz619]

RAW was outstanding this week, I watched AJ v Zayn in full which I enjoyed and the rest on youtube, every match and segment was must see, it was great show for a big sell out. The first genuinely good show overall in a while.

 

[sweep_shot]

RAW was outstanding this week, I watched AJ v Zayn in full which I enjoyed and the rest on youtube, every match and segment was must see, it was great show for a big sell out. The first genuinely good show overall in a while.

Dominik Mysterio just turned heel. I didn't see that coming.

What do you think about the stable Judgment Day? I find them cringy and boring.