The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[dashing_man]

The ultimate underdog Story featuring [MENTION=3474]TalhaSyed[/MENTION] and his Reigns movement..REIGNS..REIGNS! REIGNS...bhaaah gaawwd the front lawn is filled with Reign followers....

 

[dashing_man]

Eugene predictions can go wrong for anyone. You are only one point ahead of me anyway. In terms of wrestling knowledge I wipe the floor with you and have owned you several times in our debates. So pipe down jobber.


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quite! shusssh peasent...
you have no honor left. Be gone Be gone Be gone!!!!

 

[shaz619]

quite! shusssh peasent...
you have no honor left. Be gone Be gone Be gone!!!!

) Eugene begging for Mercy SOMEBODY STOP THE DAMN MATCH! MY BRAINLESS SKULL CAN'T ENDURE SO MUCH PUNISHMENT BAH GAWD, tapping out to Adil's Pothwari Lock like a jobber:

 

[Firebreaker]

My man Sheamus won the WWE WHC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

 

[#GreenRoars]

Hate the part when crowd booed poor Roman

 

[shaz619]

Hate the part when crowd booed poor Roman

Good for him, the guy botched a backstage promo and a move in his match against ambrose on a night that should have been his crowning achievement; it doesn't exactly inspire the confidence of the fans. Am glad Sheamus won so he can improve a bit more now and perhaps the fans may grow a little sympathetic towards him when this storyline involves roman getting screwed all the time before finally winning the big one and having a long run with the belt. It's the best plan since they intend to keep him as a baby face, personally think he'd relish being a heel he'd be more compatible in that role. Vince wants a baby face though because in this era they are your golden goose

 

[TalhaSyed]

Good for him, the guy botched a backstage promo and a move in his match against ambrose on a night that should have been his crowning achievement; it doesn't exactly inspire the confidence of the fans. Am glad Sheamus won so he can improve a bit more now and perhaps the fans may grow a little sympathetic towards him when this storyline involves roman getting screwed all the time before finally winning the big one and having a long run with the belt. It's the best plan since they intend to keep him as a baby face, personally think he'd relish being a heel he'd be more compatible in that role. Vince wants a baby face though because in this era they are your golden goose

See that's the thing man - even if RR irons out all of the botches - I just can't see a PPV crowd feel sympathy for or cheer for him.

The PPV crowds will always look for the likes of DZ and DB to succeed because of that "support the under dog" mentality. I can't imagine any circumstances which leads to RR getting cheered by a PPV crowd as a face - which sounds contradictory and strange but it's just the way it is in my opinion.

I think if WWE is adamant to keep RR's face - which I think they are too - they will have to accept that he will get booed at whatever PPV he wins the belt.


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[shaz619]

See that's the thing man - even if RR irons out all of the botches - I just can't see a PPV crowd feel sympathy for or cheer for him.

The PPV crowds will always look for the likes of DZ and DB to succeed because of that "support the under dog" mentality. I can't imagine any circumstances which leads to RR getting cheered by a PPV crowd as a face - which sounds contradictory and strange but it's just the way it is in my opinion.

I think if WWE is adamant to keep RR's face - which I think they are too - they will have to accept that he will get booed at whatever PPV he wins the belt.


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This is the best way to control the damage though; having sheamus win now and trying to work the sympathy storyline so that fans can route for the babyface that is being repeatedly screwed and it also gives Reigns more time to improve they don't need to rush his ascension Vince alaways seems to be in a hurry. If Reigns begins to cut some brilliant promos, develops a unique personality and gets really good in the ring then am 100% sure the audience would give him respect and get behind him mostly, it's not like the situation with Cena who has the same persona for over 10 years and we're tired of it, people want a new guy on top but if he isn't good or there are better options then fans are not so accepting of the chosen ones which the machine feels should be headlining PPV's.

Thing is with Bryan it wasn't even about supporting an underdog, he managed to connect with the audience in a way we've not seen in years and that was evident by the energy in the audiences and crowd reactions we've not heard since the early 2000's. He had a brilliant run with Kane as one half of team hell no and before that a pretty run as a heel WHC and then when he turned he managed to get his yes movement gimmick over but it didn't happen overnight Bryan had built himself a strong platform on which he was able to display his versatility and when the machine did decide to push him he build on his prior success; so he was a star in the making and not someone who just woke up to cheers. Bryan is also an incredibly gifted technical wrestler and is often ranked amongst the greatest of all time when it comes to technical ability and that has certainly helped him to; I recall him wrestling 3 or 4 times at a time on RAW regularly and blow the roof of each time so although Bryan being screwed all the time in real life played a pivotal road in the chances he got in the end it was his ability which was the reason for his success or else guys like Ziggler would have achieved the same results but given his lack of charisma he hasn't been able to even though he remains a favourite amongst certain portions of the audience.

Personally don't see Reigns ever becoming so good to the point where he'd shut people up and support him a fair amount but I do believe he can develop in to a solid A/R performer but fans won't get behind that when they feel like there are better options and more polished performers such as Owens, Ambrose and Wyatt. However Reigns can try and stand out a bit from those guys by developing a personality, turning heel to go with his improved promo booking (limiting his lines turning him into a silent bad-asss) and skills in the ring.

However turning Reigns heel from creatives perspective is a big no, they have invested him as a face and are already copying and pasting Cena's gimmick onto him and that has rubbed people up the wrong way because fans want to see something fresh and they don't have to do that by turning him heel which would be great but just look at Batista's baby face run in the early 2000's creative should use that as a blue-print but the thing is in this era promo ability is incredibly important from WWE's perspective and Roman needs to be able to cut decent babyface promos to get those kiddies to buy his merch and toys so that's why they are using Cena's gimmick as the blue-print.

 

[LordOsiris]

[MENTION=858]Amir[/MENTION] [MENTION=137419]dashing_man[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=138379]#GreenRoars[/MENTION] [MENTION=95766]leatherface58[/MENTION] [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] [MENTION=139822]LordOsiris[/MENTION] [MENTION=138670]The_KING[/MENTION]

Results below gents! Please do let me know if you think I DM'ed something

[MENTION=138379]#GreenRoars[/MENTION] - Please update the thread title to reflect my rise from Jobber to Champion!!!

I feel like LordOsiris is Roman Reigns & I am Sheamus

Damn. So close. Sheamus, ruined my perfect record.

 

[dashing_man]

may I add, the Survivor Series crowd was the worst I have seen this year in WWE's PPV

 

[shaz619]

may I add, the Survivor Series crowd was the worst I have seen this year in WWE's PPV

It's just years of being fed a garbage product that has turned them insane but they have so much passion for wrestling that they can't help themselves but tune into major PPV's because of how much they enjoyed wrestling in the past during the 90's and early 2000's. That's the root of the problem but if creative begin to fix issues when it comes to it's characters and storylines then the audience would be super cool like the one in NXT but the WWE audience is a mixure of casuals and hardcore fans and Vince's retarded brain seems to think that casuals enjoy the rubbish they put out every week while having a few decent angles to cater to the needs of the hardcore fans but the thing is irrespective of your audience you need to put out a decent product out there and WWE have failed at that and it's reflected in the ratingz and lack of interest of crowds and the only time they do wake up is to cheer for the Undertaker or start chanting rubbish when they don't like something; KO v Ambrose was well received to because it was a great match

 

[London_Lahori]

Damn. So close. Sheamus, ruined my perfect record.

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] - this newbie schooled all of you, got all of them correct.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] - this newbie schooled all of you, got all of them correct.

Talha won it, your buddy in 2nd , me 3rd because I didn't make a few serious predictions, Eugene Jobber in the bottom 3 )

When are you going to participate again? I always win when you're competing for the Jobber Championship. LL is hilarious, he was putting down dead wrestlers for some of the matches last time )

 

[shaz619]

Brilliant promo to open the show from Sheamus, great stuff; and damn! is Russev a part of the Authority now?! if so I welcome this move for his career given that he'd be somewhat involved in main-event angles

 

[dashing_man]

Rusev returns bAAAHH GAWWWDD!!!


I'm liking this

 

[The_KING]

HHH vs Roman Reigns for Wrestlemania. It's pretty obvious.

 

[dashing_man]

HHH vs Roman Reigns for Wrestlemania. It's pretty obvious.

That I like if Reigns is getting over though I won't mind another burial from Haitch. The IWC will go besserk

In other news, Cesaro is injured and will be out for 4-6 months. DAAAMN!! he was getting a push real soon

 

[dashing_man]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] [MENTION=3474]TalhaSyed[/MENTION]

Haitch owned by Reignz )

Tallu bhai can you please DM Reignz and tell him just to never smile when working in his character, it just ruins everything

 

[dashing_man]

[MENTION=3474]TalhaSyed[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION]

Reigns is getting there and I'll be honest, I'm excited for the TLC match. I think it will steal the show

Here's the live crowd reaction at Nashville last night

 

[dashing_man]

 

[shaz619]

Sheamus is probably the last true heel in this era smarky audiences cheer for Seth, Bray and Owens. There has been a difference of opinion when it comes to X-pac heat now that Sheamus has won in that there is an argument where you don't want fans to change the channel because they hate Sheamus that bad but I disagree I think that it doesn't really matter because the typically frustrated WWE fan always tunes in no matter how much complaining they do. With the authority behind him Sheamus is set for the best run of his career since the ferocious heel that won his first WWE title all those years agnly issue is that I've not been happy with his booking ever since he won MITB they have used him like a Jobber so it sought of hurts his credibility as champion now. What I don't get is that fans tend to sympathise with the likes of Ziggler etc but Sheamus has been on the wrong side of booking as well despite being a brilliant worker. Anyway this is probably the optimum plan from creative to Keep Reigns as a baby face and hope he improves whilst winning more people over; I guess even if he doesn't hopefully he'll be more polished.

P.S Sheamus should have come out in a Suit. Come to think of it Russev wouldn't have been a bad option as World Champion [MENTION=137419]dashing_man[/MENTION] I'd actually get behind that more then Sheamus, I had totally forgot about him given that WWE were booking him like garbage in that failed TMZ angle and then he was hanging out with Lana or whatever. Bray is once again lost in the shuffle and his career is on the brink of being completely destroyed. How many times can they bury him before fans just stop caring.....it's so sad because he's one of the greatest mic workers of all time

 

[shaz619]

Also one step closer to the match everyone wants to See Sheamus v Lesnar. That's going to be one hell of a match.

 

[Rana]

Also one step closer to the match everyone wants to See Sheamus v Lesnar. That's going to be one hell of a match.

agreed

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] The most recent edition of RAW achieved its lowest rating since early 1997 ( just before the attitude era) and it failed to average 3 million viewers for the first time in over two decades.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=137419]dashing_man[/MENTION] Eugene will still defend the WWE [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION]

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] The most recent edition of RAW achieved its lowest rating since early 1997 ( just before the attitude era) and it failed to average 3 million viewers for the first time in over two decades.

Sheamus vs Reigns is best for business.

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[dashing_man]

Sheamus vs Reigns is best for business.

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don't whine. Just wait for TLC, its going to be a classic TLC match

 

[Adil_94]

don't whine. Just wait for TLC, its going to be a classic TLC match

I have no doubt they will put on a great show. Its whether the fans really care about sheamus as champ and actually tuning in to see him and seeing this feud.

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[shaz619]

don't whine. Just wait for TLC, its going to be a classic TLC match

One classic match will fix the WWE product as a whole, [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] Eugene's genius logic ) that's what this jobber keeps telling himself to defend the drivel he watches. Well oh mania is coming up soon, oh TLC will be a good PPV so all of that justify's the god awful ratings; heck WWE is going to reach TNA territory if they don't fix up ) averaging around 2 million views is a disgrace. TNA at their peak would get close to that number and now it's around a million so that's big time besti but Eugene still being bent over by Vinny Mac and Enjoying it

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

RAW was terrible this week. Sheamus vs RR is boring. I mean they had been wrestling against each other for past couple of weeks. I would rather watch John Laurinaitis vs Eugene than this.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

lol...Sheamus and Reigns. The 2 most boring guys to ever get into the ring. Vince has lost it

 

[TheNightWatchman]

[MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] The most recent edition of RAW achieved its lowest rating since early 1997 ( just before the attitude era) and it failed to average 3 million viewers for the first time in over two decades.

Not surprising when you have guys like Reigns and Sheamus headlining for the next few months

 

[shaz619]

Not surprising when you have guys like Reigns and Sheamus headlining for the next few months

It's the culmination of a number of events; personally don't want to blame the roster it's actually very talented but they are let down by booking and creative. It's hard to make sense of things just look at the mexAmerica angle lol; the main issue is that there is no concept of consistent episodic TV.

Reigns is a work in progress but his character work has been let down by creative; he is too goofy when being a bad-ass would come more naturally and play to his strengths.

Sheamus is one of the most underrated in-ring workers and he lacks personality but when he first showed up in the WWE as a maniacle heel his work was great. Cut a decent promo to open RAW recently.

In the end we have to point fingers at Vinny Mac and retarded fans like [MENTION=137419]dashing_man[/MENTION] who pump money into an awful product, the guy has a John Cena and Roman Reigns pleasure device.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

It's the culmination of a number of events; personally don't want to blame the roster it's actually very talented but they are let down by booking and creative. It's hard to make sense of things just look at the mexAmerica angle lol; the main issue is that there is no concept of consistent episodic TV.

Reigns is a work in progress but his character work has been let down by creative; he is too goofy when being a bad-ass would come more naturally and play to his strengths.

Sheamus is one of the most underrated in-ring workers and he lacks personality but when he first showed up in the WWE as a maniacle heel his work was great. Cut a decent promo to open RAW recently.

In the end we have to point fingers at Vinny Mac and retarded fans like @<a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/member.php?u=137419" target="_blank">dashing_man</a> who pump money into an awful product, the guy has a John Cena and Roman Reigns pleasure device.

It's nothing to do with the character. Roman is just not ready to be in the title picture. He sucks on the mic. Ordinary in the ring.
And to add to that the horrible horrible writing and booking. They had so much potential to do something with this ppv but they ruined it. The most predictable and the most bland thing wwe could have done.

this sums it up

 

[shaz619]

It's nothing to do with the character. Roman is just not ready to be in the title picture. He sucks on the mic. Ordinary in the ring.
And to add to that the horrible horrible writing and booking. They had so much potential to do something with this ppv but they ruined it. The most predictable and the most bland thing wwe could have done.

this sums it up

The biggest issue is with booking and creative; the product as a whole needs to change and yes certain talents do have limitations but it's about working around those limitations while highlighting their strengths so things like character/gimmick are incredibly important because you could have someone who is a talented A/R performer but with a mid-card gimmick. E.g Tyler Breeze is brilliant in the ring and very charismatic but his selfie character is not going to win him championships in the main-event. Big E was another individual who was incredibly underutilized despite his charisma but has now been able to express himself better as a part of the New Day gimmick. Rocky Maivia infamously portrayed a goofy baby face when he made his debut which got chants like "die rocky die" Austin wasn't getting over as the Ring Master etc so the way you are presented as a character is incredibly important but creative have failed big time here despite all the wonderful talent in their hands.

Roman is a work in progress which is why they won't put the belt on him, the idea of putting the title on Sheamus is to give Reigns more time to improve and screw him out the WWE championship continuously with the hope that he'd get more over as a baby face because they are not going to turn him heel. Someone like Paul Heyman was a master at dealing with talent when it came to promo's, his logic was simple you hide the weaknesses and emphasise the strengths; Roman isn't a brilliant mic worker but have him portray a sought of silent bad-ass which beats the hell out of people and doesn't talk much; when he does speak on the mic he should always be serious and his words should be limited and trust me you'd have a pretty solid promo. It won't come naturally to everyone and those who are not naturals are also held down by the scripted nature of their promo's; when unscripted talent can at times be a lot more compatible but it isn't that simple and it's not a matter of giving these guys a few pointers and this in turn effects their delivery. Heck even Austin stumbled on his words a bit when he appeared on RAW recently, he wasn't happy with the way creative wanted to book him for that show but he was doing the company a favour; Austin said that creative are hell bent on ensuring you follow the script word for word and this can affect your delivery big time so in these times we ought to sympathise with talent a bit and the lack of effort in bringing out the best in them. That;s what I would do with Reigns personally as far as his mic work is concerned and character; I have no doubt that he will improve in the ring if he works hard. Cena at the same stage of Romans career was 10x worse and now he's is probably amongst the top 3 wrestlers of the year in 2015.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

The biggest issue is with booking and creative; the product as a whole needs to change and yes certain talents do have limitations but it's about working around those limitations while highlighting their strengths so things like character/gimmick are incredibly important because you could have someone who is a talented A/R performer but with a mid-card gimmick. E.g Tyler Breeze is brilliant in the ring and very charismatic but his selfie character is not going to win him championships in the main-event. Big E was another individual who was incredibly underutilized despite his charisma but has now been able to express himself better as a part of the New Day gimmick. Rocky Maivia infamously portrayed a goofy baby face when he made his debut which got chants like "die rocky die" Austin wasn't getting over as the Ring Master etc so the way you are presented as a character is incredibly important but creative have failed big time here despite all the wonderful talent in their hands.

Roman is a work in progress which is why they won't put the belt on him, the idea of putting the title on Sheamus is to give Reigns more time to improve and screw him out the WWE championship continuously with the hope that he'd get more over as a baby face because they are not going to turn him heel. Someone like Paul Heyman was a master at dealing with talent when it came to promo's, his logic was simple you hide the weaknesses and emphasise the strengths; Roman isn't a brilliant mic worker but have him portray a sought of silent bad-ass which beats the hell out of people and doesn't talk much; when he does speak on the mic he should always be serious and his words should be limited and trust me you'd have a pretty solid promo. It won't come naturally to everyone and those who are not naturals are also held down by the scripted nature of their promo's; when unscripted talent can at times be a lot more compatible but it isn't that simple and it's not a matter of giving these guys a few pointers and this in turn effects their delivery. Heck even Austin stumbled on his words a bit when he appeared on RAW recently, he wasn't happy with the way creative wanted to book him for that show but he was doing the company a favour; Austin said that creative are hell bent on ensuring you follow the script word for word and this can affect your delivery big time so in these times we ought to sympathise with talent a bit and the lack of effort in bringing out the best in them. That;s what I would do with Reigns personally as far as his mic work is concerned and character; I have no doubt that he will improve in the ring if he works hard. Cena at the same stage of Romans career was 10x worse and now he's is probably amongst the top 3 wrestlers of the year in 2015.

What's the point of a silent badass being the top guy. Makes no sense. He's not even good enough in the ring to back it up. If they're trying to remake the whole Daniel Bryan storyline with Reigns it won't work because everybody knows he isn't ready.
But why push Reigns in the first place?? Why don't you go with a perfect product like Owens. Awesome on the mic. Awesome in the ring. Good with social media stuff and interacting with the fans. Owens would have been my face of the company in a perfect world.
Also Cesaro should have been a main event player by now even if he is weak on the mic.
Why do WE have to like what they like. They can't force me to like Roman Reigns. They can't force fans to support reigns and boo Sheamus. It won't work. It's a dumb idea.
Comparing Cena to Reigns is ridiculous because Cena actually had the fans in the palm of his hands. By the time he was 2 years into his career he was being cheered too much to be in the midcard. Also luckily for him Lesnar had left so that top spot was perfect for him. People seem to forget that it was the fans which propelled Cena to the top spot in the first place. Whereas Reigns is being pushed against the fan's wills.

 

[shaz619]

What's the point of a silent badass being the top guy. Makes no sense. He's not even good enough in the ring to back it up. If they're trying to remake the whole Daniel Bryan storyline with Reigns it won't work because everybody knows he isn't ready.
But why push Reigns in the first place?? Why don't you go with a perfect product like Owens. Awesome on the mic. Awesome in the ring. Good with social media stuff and interacting with the fans. Owens would have been my face of the company in a perfect world.
Also Cesaro should have been a main event player by now even if he is weak on the mic.
Why do WE have to like what they like. They can't force me to like Roman Reigns. They can't force fans to support reigns and boo Sheamus. It won't work. It's a dumb idea.
Comparing Cena to Reigns is ridiculous because Cena actually had the fans in the palm of his hands. By the time he was 2 years into his career he was being cheered too much to be in the midcard. Also luckily for him Lesnar had left so that top spot was perfect for him. People seem to forget that it was the fans which propelled Cena to the top spot in the first place. Whereas Reigns is being pushed against the fan's wills.

It's about bringing out the best in a specific character despite their weaknesses am not sure how that affects where they are positioned in the card? everyone got to do a bit of mic work in this era but Reigns was a lot more compatible as a performer when he was a part of the heel sheild faction. Batista's initialy baby face run was pretty impressive and the idea would be for Reigns to take on a similar character although it would be tricky since this is the PG era and a big part of Batista's success was how barbaric he was but it was still a successful babyface gimmick and one that should be used as a platform to repackage Reigns. Sure the hardcore fans are never going to accept Reigns but the idea of screwing him repeatedly also gives him more time to improve as a performer and whether or not the smarks accept him he can get more over then he already is and the children/women which make up majority of the casual's actually respond to him he does have a fanbase. The likes of Owens, Ambrose and Wyatt are better options no doubt; Owens is a brilliant heel but he only just arrived recently on the main-roster and I have no issues with him elevating the IC championship for now because it needs attention, Ambrose is over as a baby face and if he turns heel he'd be even more successful but Vince values the look of a superstar more then anything else in a narcissistic world and in this era which is a rip off the 80's he isn't the type of baby face the WWE will build their company around and Wyatt is a potential hall of famer that has been buried so many times that I wouldnt be surprised if fans stop reacting to him because in high profile feuds they always kill his momentum; he is someone I'd love to have seen as world champion right now because he has paid his dues. Cesaro is absolutely brilliant in the ring and is over with the fans but lacks personality but he has found a way to connect with the audience, Russev is another guy they could have gone with; he's not your typical foreign heel and his olympic/Kick-Boxing background make him a unique performer that is decent on the stick as well.

Sheamus gets heat from the casuals and the smarks just don;t like him; it's a bit hypocritical because firstly he's incredibly talented in the ring and secondly he has been on the wrong side of creative booking you can just look at how they've booked him like a jobber even as an MITB winner yet the smarks have sympathy for the likes of Ceasaro and Ziggler. Anyhow Sheamus will get heat even if it's X-pac heat and Reigns will continue to get mixed reactions.

No one is comparing Reigns to Cena at the present time, read the post again "Cena at the same stage of Romans career was 10x worse in the ring" the point is Reigns will eventually improve in the ring so am not sure what Cena's fanbase got to do with anything? Anyhow Cena's rise was orchestrated by his succesful rapper gimmick and from then onwards they pushed him like superman as the WWE champ and he barely lost which turned the smarks against him; during this time he was marketed as a baby face with a gimmick that appealed to the casuals which included womens and children so Vinny built the company around him but what enabled Cena to find so much sucess was his ability to connect with the audience through the mic.

There were two different time periods with different things going on, back then in the ruthless aggression era the smarks made up a pretty big portion of the audience but over the years given how the quality has declined the WWE have neglected that portion of the fan base which has jumped over to the UFC or only tunes in for the main PPV's but now the smarks are a minority which influences the revenue WWE generate only when it comes to the high profile PPVs. The smarks are not accepting of Reigns or Cena but it is the casuals that drive the business which is why someone like Reigns remains in the main-event picture; he does have a fanbase and he does generate a reaction even if it's mixed and that reflects business.

Given the investment they've made in Reigns as a babyface they are not going to turn him heel which would actually help his character I can't emphasise that enough, so this is the optimum plan from the perspective of WWE; put the belt on sheamus so that Reigns has more time to get over (with the casuals) and improve his work in the ring. The biggest mistake they are making is trying to copy and paste Cena's gimmick at times onto Reigns and make him all goofy, that will hurt his ability to carve out his own identity. The debacle in the philly royal rumble didn't help either, creative is to blame but that effectively turned the smarks against Reigns when they were behind him a year earlier.

To build a company around center pieces such as Owens, Ambrose and Wyatt the product as a whole will need to change; at present they will succeed as main-eventers but more often then not in a PG environment WWE will always look to find someone similar to Cena in terms of his look and ability. Daniel Bryan was the exception to the rule and proved to the machine that they don't have to play by the rule book when looking for "THE" guy

 

[TheNightWatchman]

It's about bringing out the best in a specific character despite their weaknesses am not sure how that affects where they are positioned in the card? everyone got to do a bit of mic work in this era but Reigns was a lot more compatible as a performer when he was a part of the heel sheild faction. Batista's initialy baby face run was pretty impressive and the idea would be for Reigns to take on a similar character although it would be tricky since this is the PG era and a big part of Batista's success was how barbaric he was but it was still a successful babyface gimmick and one that should be used as a platform to repackage Reigns. Sure the hardcore fans are never going to accept Reigns but the idea of screwing him repeatedly also gives him more time to improve as a performer and whether or not the smarks accept him he can get more over then he already is and the children/women which make up majority of the casual's actually respond to him he does have a fanbase. The likes of Owens, Ambrose and Wyatt are better options no doubt; Owens is a brilliant heel but he only just arrived recently on the main-roster and I have no issues with him elevating the IC championship for now because it needs attention, Ambrose is over as a baby face and if he turns heel he'd be even more successful but Vince values the look of a superstar more then anything else in a narcissistic world and in this era which is a rip off the 80's he isn't the type of baby face the WWE will build their company around and Wyatt is a potential hall of famer that has been buried so many times that I wouldnt be surprised if fans stop reacting to him because in high profile feuds they always kill his momentum; he is someone I'd love to have seen as world champion right now because he has paid his dues. Cesaro is absolutely brilliant in the ring and is over with the fans but lacks personality but he has found a way to connect with the audience, Russev is another guy they could have gone with; he's not your typical foreign heel and his olympic/Kick-Boxing background make him a unique performer that is decent on the stick as well.

Sheamus gets heat from the casuals and the smarks just don;t like him; it's a bit hypocritical because firstly he's incredibly talented in the ring and secondly he has been on the wrong side of creative booking you can just look at how they've booked him like a jobber even as an MITB winner yet the smarks have sympathy for the likes of Ceasaro and Ziggler. Anyhow Sheamus will get heat even if it's X-pac heat and Reigns will continue to get mixed reactions.

No one is comparing Reigns to Cena at the present time, read the post again "Cena at the same stage of Romans career was 10x worse in the ring" the point is Reigns will eventually improve in the ring so am not sure what Cena's fanbase got to do with anything? Anyhow Cena's rise was orchestrated by his succesful rapper gimmick and from then onwards they pushed him like superman as the WWE champ and he barely lost which turned the smarks against him; during this time he was marketed as a baby face with a gimmick that appealed to the casuals which included womens and children so Vinny built the company around him but what enabled Cena to find so much sucess was his ability to connect with the audience through the mic.

There were two different time periods with different things going on, back then in the ruthless aggression era the smarks made up a pretty big portion of the audience but over the years given how the quality has declined the WWE have neglected that portion of the fan base which has jumped over to the UFC or only tunes in for the main PPV's but now the smarks are a minority which influences the revenue WWE generate only when it comes to the high profile PPVs. The smarks are not accepting of Reigns or Cena but it is the casuals that drive the business which is why someone like Reigns remains in the main-event picture; he does have a fanbase and he does generate a reaction even if it's mixed and that reflects business.

Given the investment they've made in Reigns as a babyface they are not going to turn him heel which would actually help his character I can't emphasise that enough, so this is the optimum plan from the perspective of WWE; put the belt on sheamus so that Reigns has more time to get over (with the casuals) and improve his work in the ring. The biggest mistake they are making is trying to copy and paste Cena's gimmick at times onto Reigns and make him all goofy, that will hurt his ability to carve out his own identity. The debacle in the philly royal rumble didn't help either, creative is to blame but that effectively turned the smarks against Reigns when they were behind him a year earlier.

To build a company around center pieces such as Owens, Ambrose and Wyatt the product as a whole will need to change; at present they will succeed as main-eventers but more often then not in a PG environment WWE will always look to find someone similar to Cena in terms of his look and ability. Daniel Bryan was the exception to the rule and proved to the machine that they don't have to play by the rule book when looking for "THE" guy

Why do you say the casual fans are the kids and the soccer moms? If they were. Roman Reigns wouldn't be booed everynight. Last Raw was the only time the entire year I heard Roman Reign chants and they were incredibly weak. Other than that the guy gets booed out of the building. And not just in Philly and chicago.
The majority of fans aren't the kids and women. It's the smarks. They are the majority of the fan base. Whether you or Vince think differently. That is the truth. Ratings and viewership wouldn't be at all time lows if this was the case.
Even the kids must be wondering. "Why are we supposed to cheer for a guy getting booed every night??".
And if Roman needs time for improving he can do it in the mid card. There is absolutely no reason for him to be in the mainevent.

 

[shaz619]

Why do you say the casual fans are the kids and the soccer moms? If they were. Roman Reigns wouldn't be booed everynight. Last Raw was the only time the entire year I heard Roman Reign chants and they were incredibly weak. Other than that the guy gets booed out of the building. And not just in Philly and chicago.
The majority of fans aren't the kids and women. It's the smarks. They are the majority of the fan base. Whether you or Vince think differently. That is the truth. Ratings and viewership wouldn't be at all time lows if this was the case.
Even the kids must be wondering. "Why are we supposed to cheer for a guy getting booed every night??".
And if Roman needs time for improving he can do it in the mid card. There is absolutely no reason for him to be in the mainevent.

They make up a big percentage of the casual audience which drives the business in this era that's why I say that and the $$$$ Cena generates from that portion of the audience reflects that, Roman is boo'd by the smarks and he receives cheers from that portion of the casual audience so it's a mixed reaction every night. They are not as vocal as they are for Cena but he along with the machine has established his fanbase after a very long period 10 years. Being boo'd by a vocal minority is not enough to de-push a guy; it's only when a star is unable to generate any kind of reaction that the WWE would begin to de-push a wrestler. The majority of the fans are the smarks no doubt but it is the casuals that drive the business and it's not about what I think that's just fact and Vince knows better then the both of us as far as the finances are concerned. Am not defending the product at all but that's just the truth; the main reason why the casuals drive the business is because the product is mostly aimed at them and it's not something I want. Ratings are specifically low because of the poor quality of the product in general and lack of episodic TV; there is also no development when it comes to their stars and given how the company has focussed on Cena so much over the years. That I agree with, spending time in the mid-card could help him as a performer in the long run no doubt am just presenting the reasoning behind why things are the way they are from the perspective of the WWE. Also Reigns is a better in-ring performer then he was this time last year and in the words of Bret Hart he respects his work and has deemed him a solid worker as a package who shouldn't be rushed to the main-event, they should let him get more over before strapping a rocket to his back; it's the character which needs to be presented better to elevate his progression though. After a long time there is a new face emerging in the main-event scene after all the Cena domination so it's something which should be welcomed because creative is often criticised for not developing talent on their roster; Ambrose, Owens and Wyatt will hopefully get there chance too.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

They make up a big percentage of the casual audience which drives the business in this era that's why I say that and the $$$$ Cena generates from that portion of the audience reflects that, Roman is boo'd by the smarks and he receives cheers from that portion of the casual audience so it's a mixed reaction every night. They are not as vocal as they are for Cena but he along with the machine has established his fanbase after a very long period 10 years. Being boo'd by a vocal minority is not enough to de-push a guy; it's only when a star is unable to generate any kind of reaction that the WWE would begin to de-push a wrestler. The majority of the fans are the smarks no doubt but it is the casuals that drive the business and it's not about what I think that's just fact and Vince knows better then the both of us as far as the finances are concerned. Am not defending the product at all but that's just the truth; the main reason why the casuals drive the business is because the product is mostly aimed at them and it's not something I want. Ratings are specifically low because of the poor quality of the product in general and lack of episodic TV; there is also no development when it comes to their stars and given how the company has focussed on Cena so much over the years. That I agree with, spending time in the mid-card could help him as a performer in the long run no doubt am just presenting the reasoning behind why things are the way they are from the perspective of the WWE. Also Reigns is a better in-ring performer then he was this time last year and in the words of Bret Hart he respects his work and has deemed him a solid worker as a package who shouldn't be rushed to the main-event, they should let him get more over before strapping a rocket to his back; it's the character which needs to be presented better to elevate his progression though. After a long time there is a new face emerging in the main-event scene after all the Cena domination so it's something which should be welcomed because creative is often criticised for not developing talent on their roster; Ambrose, Owens and Wyatt will hopefully get there chance too.

That's a load of BS and you know it too...I can't begin to tell you the number of guys who got depushed unfairly. What they did to Cesaro and Ziggler was criminal. Then they give somebody hot like Wyatt the Cena treatment. THey push whoever they wanna push and that's the problem. Sheamus gets no reaction from the crowd and all of a sudden he's in the main event. Ridiculous

 

[TheNightWatchman]

They make up a big percentage of the casual audience which drives the business in this era that's why I say that and the $$$$ Cena generates from that portion of the audience reflects that, Roman is boo'd by the smarks and he receives cheers from that portion of the casual audience so it's a mixed reaction every night. They are not as vocal as they are for Cena but he along with the machine has established his fanbase after a very long period 10 years. Being boo'd by a vocal minority is not enough to de-push a guy; it's only when a star is unable to generate any kind of reaction that the WWE would begin to de-push a wrestler. The majority of the fans are the smarks no doubt but it is the casuals that drive the business and it's not about what I think that's just fact and Vince knows better then the both of us as far as the finances are concerned. Am not defending the product at all but that's just the truth; the main reason why the casuals drive the business is because the product is mostly aimed at them and it's not something I want. Ratings are specifically low because of the poor quality of the product in general and lack of episodic TV; there is also no development when it comes to their stars and given how the company has focussed on Cena so much over the years. That I agree with, spending time in the mid-card could help him as a performer in the long run no doubt am just presenting the reasoning behind why things are the way they are from the perspective of the WWE. Also Reigns is a better in-ring performer then he was this time last year and in the words of Bret Hart he respects his work and has deemed him a solid worker as a package who shouldn't be rushed to the main-event, they should let him get more over before strapping a rocket to his back; it's the character which needs to be presented better to elevate his progression though. After a long time there is a new face emerging in the main-event scene after all the Cena domination so it's something which should be welcomed because creative is often criticised for not developing talent on their roster; Ambrose, Owens and Wyatt will hopefully get there chance too.

Vince doesn't give a sh*t if it's the soccer moms or the smarks reacting. WWE keeps on making that universe BS but if anyone thinks they "listen" to their fans they need to get their head checked. The only reason Bryan was in the mainevent in WM30 was because fans were literally hijacking shows by chanting for Bryan. wwe wanted Batista and Orton in the mainevent in WM30. Bryan wasn't even in the picture until Batista got booed so bad they had no choice. That's how stubborn the wwe has become

 

[shaz619]

That's a load of BS and you know it too...I can't begin to tell you the number of guys who got depushed. What they did to Cesaro and Ziggler was criminal. Then they give somebody hot like Wyatt the Cena treatment. THey push whoever they wanna push and that's the problem. Sheamus gets no reaction from the crowd and all of a sudden he's in the main event. Ridiculous

That comment was specifically relevant to their chosen guy in the main-event scene; if Roman is generating a reaction and business at house events then they won't de-push him. With the likes of Ceasaro, Wyatt etc it is different because they are not their chosen ones but once they do push someone in the main-event they give him a decent run; just look at Seth Rollins. It is unfortunate that Cesaro was de-pushed when he had gained so much momentum, it was a retarded move to pair him with Paul Heyman; am not sure how a heel-face dynamic was supposed to work and in the idea scenario Cesaro should have been pushed as a real-american to the main-event scene with Zeb as his manager. Anyhow even after being de-pushed Ceasaro connected with the audience again through brilliant performances in the ring with Tyson as his partner.

Ziggler is the most overrated smark darling ever, honestly he is great in the ring and brilliant at selling but beyond that he lacks personality and I never got what is the hype with him? Tyler Breez is someone who Ziggler should have been. Anyhow Ziggler did manage to gain momentum last year during SS and then that stellar ladder match but at best he's always going to be an upper mid-carder. What they are doing with Wyatt is criminal no doubt I can't emphasise that enough. Sheamus generates X-pac heat, he is probably the only true heel left in that even the smarks boo him even though I get that it's the we don't want to see you kind of heat but to say he doesn't generate a reaction is naive . Also I get the sympathy for Ziggler but why not for Sheamus? he is a brilliant worker to who has been treated like a jobber despite holding the breifcase that's the biggest issue with him becoming champion at this point

 

[shaz619]

Vince doesn't give a sh*t if it's the soccer moms or the smarks reacting. WWE keeps on making that universe BS but if anyone thinks they "listen" to their fans they need to get their head checked. The only reason Bryan was in the mainevent in WM30 was because fans were literally hijacking shows by chanting for Bryan. wwe wanted Batista and Orton in the mainevent in WM30. Bryan wasn't even in the picture until Batista got booed so bad they had no choice. That's how stubborn the wwe has become

Who claimed they have been listening to the smarks? they obviously have been aiming their product towards the casuals. In the ideal world WWE would have to find a common ground to sustain it's business and the quality of the product which doesn't insult our intelligence given the lack of consistent episodic TV. Yep that was a farce, Bryan was expected to wrestle sheamus had it not been for the fans and only recently Road Dogg a WWE producer was insulting fans who were upset with the SurvivorSeries PPV on twitter

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] [MENTION=858]Amir[/MENTION] [MENTION=3474]TalhaSyed[/MENTION] [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] [MENTION=137419]dashing_man[/MENTION] given the state of WWE in recent times and lack of depth in the main-event scene, this has been me lately:

I miss you Punk

Why did you have to leave us!!!!

 

[TalhaSyed]

[MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] [MENTION=858]Amir[/MENTION] [MENTION=3474]TalhaSyed[/MENTION] [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] [MENTION=137419]dashing_man[/MENTION] given the state of WWE in recent times and lack of depth in the main-event scene, this has been me lately:

I miss you Punk

Why did you have to leave us!!!!

Meh - we still got Roman

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=138784]TheNightWatchman[/MENTION] [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] the likes of Ambrose, Owens and Wyatt will never go out on a limb like Punk and really test their value to the WWE, only reason Punk was pushed as a main-event calibre star was because he said to the higher ups look am going to leave when my contract ends if you don't deal with the creative differences we have; part of what made Punk so good beyond his All round abilities was the belief he had in himself and Vince respected his confidence and he did deliver everytime

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Instead of trying to trick the fans into cheering for who they want, they could just, I don't know, push who the fans want. Crazy idea I know.

 

[shaz619]

Instead of trying to trick the fans into cheering for who they want, they could just, I don't know, push who the fans want. Crazy idea I know.

That will only happen if we get another Bryan situation where a wrestler is not only super over with the smarks but with the casuals as well.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

That will only happen if we get another Bryan situation where a wrestler is not only super over with the smarks but with the casuals as well.

AKA Cesaro

 

[shaz619]

AKA Cesaro

He's no where near as over as Bryan was; Bryan was the most over pure babyface in the company and when it came to tickets at house shows, live events and merchandise he was consistently in the top 2 best sellers for the WWE and at one point did better then Cena. There were live events where the WWE would offer refunds for pulling Bryan from house shows where he was advertised. Ratings were pretty decent for the hours he featured in, in the old thread [MENTION=115388]I Believe in the Teesra[/MENTION] use to break them down regularly. Having said that Ceasaro is a popular guy but no where near Bryan and unfortunately the audience isn't as invested in him as they were for Bryan which would force the machine to give him a main-event push. In the lead up to Bryans peak in popularity he displayed great versatility as a heel WHC and as one half of team hell no; those successful gigs set the platform for him and are pivotal moments where his personality as a face and heel made a connection with the audience because prior to that he was just some guy who was over because of his incredible in-ring work. From then onwards he gained more momentum and the Yes! gimmick took off. Ceasaro is very unique in the ring but it won't be enough for him to reach the heights which Bryan did, for that he'll need to develop a personality but that will be a problem given that charisma is not something you're born with so the only way he is ever going to be a decent main-eventer is if the machine give him a super-push or else he'll remain a enhancement talent which is used to make main-eventers look good given his incredible ability as an in-ring performer

 

[TheNightWatchman]

He's no where near as over as Bryan was; Bryan was the most over pure babyface in the company and when it came to tickets at house shows, live events and merchandise he was consistently in the top 2 best sellers for the WWE and at one point did better then Cena. There were live events where the WWE would offer refunds for pulling Bryan from house shows where he was advertised. Ratings were pretty decent for the hours he featured in, in the old thread [MENTION=115388]I Believe in the Teesra[/MENTION] use to break them down regularly. Having said that Ceasaro is a popular guy but no where near Bryan and unfortunately the audience isn't as invested in him as they were for Bryan which would force the machine to give him a main-event push. In the lead up to Bryans peak in popularity he displayed great versatility as a heel WHC and as one half of team hell no; those successful gigs set the platform for him and are pivotal moments where his personality as a face and heel made a connection with the audience because prior to that he was just some guy who was over because of his incredible in-ring work. From then onwards he gained more momentum and the Yes! gimmick took off. Ceasaro is very unique in the ring but it won't be enough for him to reach the heights which Bryan did, for that he'll need to develop a personality but that will be a problem given that charisma is not something you're born with so the only way he is ever going to be a decent main-eventer is if the machine give him a super-push or else he'll remain a enhancement talent which is used to make main-eventers look good given his incredible ability as an in-ring performer

Bryan was getting cheered more than anyone I've seen. Even more than Rock. He was on par with stonecold with the pops he was getting. Not everyone could be that popular. But Cesaro is still hot with the casual crowd.
Look how stubborn they were with Bryan DESPITE him being so popular. They put him with the Wyatts and STILL they cheered him.

Vince says Cesaro can't connect with the crowd. The ridiculous amount of Cesaro section signs defy that. He's more over than Reigns yet Roman is pushed. It makes NO sense.
When the hell did Reigns ever achieve any of the things Bryan did?? It's so embarrassing that they're trying to do the same Bryan story line with him. It will be a terrible fail

 

[shaz619]

Bryan was getting cheered more than anyone I've seen. Even more than Rock. He was on par with stonecold with the pops he was getting. Not everyone could be that popular. But Cesaro is still hot with the casual crowd.
Look how stubborn they were with Bryan DESPITE him being so popular. They put him with the Wyatts and STILL they cheered him.

Vince says Cesaro can't connect with the crowd. The ridiculous amount of Cesaro section signs defy that. He's more over than Reigns yet Roman is pushed. It makes NO sense.
When the hell did Reigns ever achieve any of the things Bryan did?? It's so embarrassing that they're trying to do the same Bryan story line with him. It will be a terrible fail

I don't know if I'd say more then Rock or on Par with Austin but the energy levels from the crowd were insane and the pops were the loudest I've heard since the Ruthless Aggression era. Ceasaro is popular no doubt but the the reason why the audience is not behind him the way they were for Bryan is because he lacks personality and charisma is not something which comes naturally to him. At that moment in time we didn't know what creative had in mind for Bryan, we interpreted it as the cooling down period because mania was still a while away; the slow burn of him being brain-washed by the Wyatts would inevitably make him even more super over when he'd eventually turn on them. It made for compelling TV and was an incredible moment in the cage; the crowd went absolutely nuts.

The Ceasaro signs are printed out by a loyalist of his which hands them out to everyone in the front two rows, creative then ran with it by constantly pushing the section from then onwards. He is popular but in no way do those signs suggest he can connect with the audience through his personality; Ceasaro's biggest strength is his unique in ring performance and it is that aspect of his ability which connects with the audience but not on a level where he is causing people to demand that he should be in the main-event scene and I put that down to his lack of charisma.

They are pushing Reigns because of his look and in this era which is a throwback to the 80's it's something which is necessary for a top face given the need to generate max revenue from the casual fanbase so they need a marketable superstar. Bryan was an exception which doesn't come around so often and in the end they gave him his due for the $$$ and buzz he generated and despite how stubborn Vince is he likes nothing more then $$$; in the end they had Bryan defeat Evolution in one night and it just goes to show that they had huge plans in store for him had it not been for his injury.

That's the main reason why they are pushing Reigns and despite the strong opinions smarks have he is an improved performer from 12 months ago and if Bret Hart of all people praises your in-ring work you got to be doing something right. Having said that there are more polished performers on the roster but unless the product changes as a whole or we get another Bryan situation guys like Wyatt, Ambrose and Owens will never be pushed as "THE" guy but creative would have to be stupid to exclude them from the main-event scene.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

I don't know if I'd say more then Rock or on Par with Austin but the energy levels from the crowd were insane and the pops were the loudest I've heard since the Ruthless Aggression era. Ceasaro is popular no doubt but the the reason why the audience is not behind him the way they were for Bryan is because he lacks personality and charisma is not something which comes naturally to him. At that moment in time we didn't know what creative had in mind for Bryan, we interpreted it as the cooling down period because mania was still a while away; the slow burn of him being brain-washed by the Wyatts would inevitably make him even more super over when he'd eventually turn on them. It made for compelling TV and was an incredible moment in the cage; the crowd went absolutely nuts.

The Ceasaro signs are printed out by a loyalist of his which hands them out to everyone in the front two rows, creative then ran with it by constantly pushing the section from then onwards. He is popular but in no way do those signs suggest he can connect with the audience through his personality; Ceasaro's biggest strength is his unique in ring performance and it is that aspect of his ability which connects with the audience but not on a level where he is causing people to demand that he should be in the main-event scene and I put that down to his lack of charisma.

They are pushing Reigns because of his look and in this era which is a throwback to the 80's it's something which is necessary for a top face given the need to generate max revenue from the casual fanbase so they need a marketable superstar. Bryan was an exception which doesn't come around so often and in the end they gave him his due for the $$$ and buzz he generated and despite how stubborn Vince is he likes nothing more then $$$; in the end they had Bryan defeat Evolution in one night and it just goes to show that they had huge plans in store for him had it not been for his injury.

That's the main reason why they are pushing Reigns and despite the strong opinions smarks have he is an improved performer from 12 months ago and if Bret Hart of all people praises your in-ring work you got to be doing something right. Having said that there are more polished performers on the roster but unless the product changes as a whole or we get another Bryan situation guys like Wyatt, Ambrose and Owens will never be pushed as "THE" guy but creative would have to be stupid to exclude them from the main-event scene.

Cesaro has the "look". Vince said it himself. He's awesome in the ring. If "not connecting with the crowd" is his problem Vince should take a look at Reigns. He isn't connecting with the crowd at ALL!! Just few weeks ago he delivered this god awful promo on Bray Wyatt and the fan's didn't care. It was supposed to be the go home raw before his match with Wyatt. And it was supposed to be an intense and emotional promo. But his delivery was so boring people started chanting "what" and "boring". THIS is the new face of the company. Atleast Cena could sell a match. This guy can't sell a toothbrush for all its worth.

I'm not saying Cesaro should be THE top guy. But he should be in the top tier instead of jobbing for everybody. He could be the right hand man for the authority instead of Kane and Bigshow. If they are so keen on "improving" talents while pushing them they should use Cesaro as a spokesman for the Authority. Take advantage of his injury and help him get better at the mic. Wasting him in the tag team division with Kidd or making him job to Kevin Owens isn't gonna work.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

The sooner HHH kicks out Vince and Dunn the better. This past week was absolutely ridiculous. I only watch 4 shows a year. AND to ruin them everytime!!

 

[shaz619]

Cesaro has the "look". Vince said it himself. He's awesome in the ring. If "not connecting with the crowd" is his problem Vince should take a look at Reigns. He isn't connecting with the crowd at ALL!! Just few weeks ago he delivered this god awful promo on Bray Wyatt and the fan's didn't care. It was supposed to be the go home raw before his match with Wyatt. And it was supposed to be an intense and emotional promo. But his delivery was so boring people started chanting "what" and "boring". THIS is the new face of the company. Atleast Cena could sell a match. This guy can't sell a toothbrush for all its worth.

I'm not saying Cesaro should be THE top guy. But he should be in the top tier instead of jobbing for everybody. He could be the right hand man for the authority instead of Kane and Bigshow. If they are so keen on "improving" talents while pushing them they should use Cesaro as a spokesman for the Authority. Take advantage of his injury and help him get better at the mic. Wasting him in the tag team division with Kidd or making him job to Kevin Owens isn't gonna work.

When did Vince say he has the "look"? I've not read it anywhere before, the likes of Cena and Reigns are more pretty then an ugly baldy even though he is in tremendous shape with unique ability in the ring; as harsh as it sounds but things like that matter to the higher ups in the WWE because it translates to revenue. Whether Reigns is connecting with the crowd or not from the fans viewpoint subjective, the higher ups are in a better position to judge that from the revenue he generates but in my opinion he generates a mixed-reaction amongst smarky audiences while he remains popular with the casuals; from personal experience went to smackdown recently and he was very over although there were a a minority that were booing him but if such boo's were a major problem then someone like Cena would have retired a long time ago. It's no secret that Reigns isn't great on the mic but he is also let down by the character they want him to portray and how scripted his promos are. Having said that if they are serious about copying and pasting Cena's gimmick on to him they are making a huge mistake because it's obvious that he won't be able to pull it off.

Using Ceasaro as a spokesman for anyone would be a very bad idea; his delivery is even weaker then Reigns and I literally fall asleep the moment he speaks; however he'd defo make a decent Authority henchman and if they had picked him as the guy to hold the world title ahead of sheamus it could have worked because HHH and Steph would do most of the talking. You just made it clear that it's not wise to throw a green talent into the main-event picture similarly it would be suicide giving Ceasaro a microphone in a a high profile role, I recall him botching his words where he said "inside these 4 ropes am the best" imagine him making such a mistake on the go home show of RAW before a summerslam? he'd be the subject of great ridicule. Ceasaro in the main-event scene would absolutely need a manager or faction behind him. The gig with Tyson was brilliant, the tag division is not what it use to be but those two had great chemistry and made you want to tune into the tag action.

 

[shaz619]

The sooner HHH kicks out Vince and Dunn the better. This past week was absolutely ridiculous. I only watch 4 shows a year. AND to ruin them everytime!!

HHH needs to take over given that he is a shrewed booker who understands how the product is meant to be in this career; he won't always satisfy the smarks but he'll find the necessary common ground which is required to sustain the business's growth. Thing is as out of touch Vince is he still has the confidence of the investors given his business acumen and reputation, HHH is looked down upon as a guy in chadiz that is brainless. It's an ignorant stereotype which will affect HHH's ability to take over in the long run imo and it's something am really worried about even though hunter is CEO or whatever it doesn't account for much

 

[TheNightWatchman]

When did Vince say he has the "look"? I've not read it anywhere before, the likes of Cena and Reigns are more pretty then an ugly baldy even though he is in tremendous shape with unique ability in the ring; as harsh as it sounds but things like that matter to the higher ups in the WWE because it translates to revenue. Whether Reigns is connecting with the crowd or not from the fans viewpoint subjective, the higher ups are in a better position to judge that from the revenue he generates but in my opinion he generates a mixed-reaction amongst smarky audiences while he remains popular with the casuals; from personal experience went to smackdown recently and he was very over although there were a a minority that were booing him but if such boo's were a major problem then someone like Cena would have retired a long time ago. It's no secret that Reigns isn't great on the mic but he is also let down by the character they want him to portray and how scripted his promos are. Having said that if they are serious about copying and pasting Cena's gimmick on to him they are making a huge mistake because it's obvious that he won't be able to pull it off.

Using Ceasaro as a spokesman for anyone would be a very bad idea; his delivery is even weaker then Reigns and I literally fall asleep the moment he speaks; however he'd defo make a decent Authority henchman and if they had picked him as the guy to hold the world title ahead of sheamus it could have worked because HHH and Steph would do most of the talking. You just made it clear that it's not wise to throw a green talent into the main-event picture similarly it would be suicide giving Ceasaro a microphone in a a high profile role, I recall him botching his words where he said "inside these 4 ropes am the best" imagine him making such a mistake on the go home show of RAW before a summerslam? he'd be the subject of great ridicule. Ceasaro in the main-event scene would absolutely need a manager or faction behind him. The gig with Tyson was brilliant, the tag division is not what it use to be but those two had great chemistry and made you want to tune into the tag action.

Ugly?? lol he's not exactly bad looking. And as far as bald wwe superstars go are you serious??
As far as botched promos and line delivery go he can't be worse than Reigns

 

[TheNightWatchman]

When did Vince say he has the "look"? I've not read it anywhere before, the likes of Cena and Reigns are more pretty then an ugly baldy even though he is in tremendous shape with unique ability in the ring; as harsh as it sounds but things like that matter to the higher ups in the WWE because it translates to revenue. Whether Reigns is connecting with the crowd or not from the fans viewpoint subjective, the higher ups are in a better position to judge that from the revenue he generates but in my opinion he generates a mixed-reaction amongst smarky audiences while he remains popular with the casuals; from personal experience went to smackdown recently and he was very over although there were a a minority that were booing him but if such boo's were a major problem then someone like Cena would have retired a long time ago. It's no secret that Reigns isn't great on the mic but he is also let down by the character they want him to portray and how scripted his promos are. Having said that if they are serious about copying and pasting Cena's gimmick on to him they are making a huge mistake because it's obvious that he won't be able to pull it off.

Using Ceasaro as a spokesman for anyone would be a very bad idea; his delivery is even weaker then Reigns and I literally fall asleep the moment he speaks; however he'd defo make a decent Authority henchman and if they had picked him as the guy to hold the world title ahead of sheamus it could have worked because HHH and Steph would do most of the talking. You just made it clear that it's not wise to throw a green talent into the main-event picture similarly it would be suicide giving Ceasaro a microphone in a a high profile role, I recall him botching his words where he said "inside these 4 ropes am the best" imagine him making such a mistake on the go home show of RAW before a summerslam? he'd be the subject of great ridicule. Ceasaro in the main-event scene would absolutely need a manager or faction behind him. The gig with Tyson was brilliant, the tag division is not what it use to be but those two had great chemistry and made you want to tune into the tag action.

And did you NOT see the promo he did on Wyatt lol..The fans were dead. They didn't care at all

 

[shaz619]

And did you NOT see the promo he did on Wyatt lol..The fans were dead. They didn't care at all

Yeah I've said in the post his mic ability isn't great but provided reasons in terms of what can be done to improve them. This isn't a p!ssing contest between Cesaro and Reigns it's about presenting the two on screen in the best way possible while concealing their limitations

 

[shaz619]

Ugly?? lol he's not exactly bad looking. And as far as bald wwe superstars go are you serious??
As far as botched promos and line delivery go he can't be worse than Reigns

Like I said it's about presenting the two in the best way possible on TV; both are not great on the mic but Ceasaro is harder for me to bare when he speaks. Yeah he is a pretty ugly dude imo and Cesaro is no Stone Cold since that's what you are implying and also understand the distinction between the PG and Attitude era's, each has different demands as far as the "look" and "Top Guy" are concerned

 

[shaz619]

Bae Kissing us goodbye

[MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] [MENTION=137419]dashing_man[/MENTION]

We miss you Phil

 

[Adil_94]

Bae Kissing us goodbye

[MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] [MENTION=137419]dashing_man[/MENTION]

We miss you Phil

No one else has phils self assurance to challenge the machine. And stand upto Vince. Dammit I'd like to believe after I leave things would change around here. Yeah they've gone downhill Phil.


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[shaz619]

No one else has phils self assurance to challenge the machine. And stand upto Vince. Dammit I'd like to believe after I leave things would change around here. Yeah they've gone downhill Phil.


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Punk truly believed he was the best in the world and was willing to risk everything to prove that because that's how much belief he had in his ability; he vindicated his push by selling more merch then Cena remember that? and they'd specifically have him headline house shows during as champion. Punk's drawing power and fan-base are incredibly underestimated; nothing must have hurt Vince more then Dana White of all people realising that ) HHH probably was glad that he is not around because he was the only one that was willing to slap that Darth Burius smirk of his face.

And watch this Video bro it gave me goosebumps, shivers and I got too emotional bruh

 

[Aman]

Saw this on reddit...

legit started tearing up..

 

[Adil_94]

Punk truly believed he was the best in the world and was willing to risk everything to prove that because that's how much belief he had in his ability; he vindicated his push by selling more merch then Cena remember that? and they'd specifically have him headline house shows during as champion. Punk's drawing power and fan-base are incredibly underestimated; nothing must have hurt Vince more then Dana White of all people realising that ) HHH probably was glad that he is not around because he was the only one that was willing to slap that Darth Burius smirk of his face.

And watch this Video bro it gave me goosebumps, shivers and I got too emotional bruh

[emoji144] [emoji144] [emoji144]

Bro that vid makes me emotional too. That slow instrumental of takers theme. Truly ia one of a kind. Ima be tearing up like a lil kid when taker finally hangs up the boots.

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[shaz619]

Bro that vid makes me emotional too. That slow instrumental of takers theme. Truly ia one of a kind. Ima be tearing up like a lil kid when taker finally hangs up the boots.

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Same here am glad we went to see him at smackdown, forever cherish that moment; we'll never see HBK, Rock, Austin, or Flair live but we can say we saw the Undertaker. I can honestly see him getting the same ovation Flair did when he gets inducted into the Hall of Fame eventually. Many fans quit watching WWE when the streak ended, many faces in this thread left; it was because their childhood had been destroyed and honestly the streak was bigger then everything when you look at the impact it had on fans and it will never be replicated. Since then the Phenom has portrayed a new sought of character which is no longer invincible as it once was, the era has truly ended even though Taker has out lasted them all. He is the one corner stone which is still there and is going to leave very soon. I don't have anything against Taker winning on his 25th anniversary he truly is one of those guys that epitomizes the WWE and to honour his legacy he won; although it would have been better if someone other then Bray was jobbing.

 

[shaz619]

Saw this on reddit...

legit started tearing up..

Watch this videos guys [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION]

) Man whoever made that video is a genius! the lyrics are absolutely perfect and they match up with the footage as well LOL HHH's expressions are hilarious, Punk on the phone, Vince tackling punk, HBK getting involved, Punk speaking to AJ and Punk brawling with Hunter etc it describes the love-hate relationship between Punk and the WWE beautifully

 

[dashing_man]

You Gay bruh? check out this jobber [MENTION=137419]dashing_man[/MENTION] )

Watch this videos guys [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION]

) Man whoever made that video is a genius! the lyrics are absolutely perfect and they match up with the footage as well LOL HHH's expressions are hilarious, Punk on the phone, Vince tackling punk, HBK getting involved, Punk speaking to AJ and Punk brawling with Hunter etc it describes the love-hate relationship between Punk and the WWE beautifully

Mark My Words, Punk will come back running to the WWE after his first fight.

Punk will demand to be treated like Lesnar and Vince's reply will be ) ) ) ) )

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Too many Punk marks on this thread. He was no stonecold or Rock and never could be.

 

[dashing_man]

Too many Punk marks on this thread. He was no stonecold or Rock and never could be.

leave them. You can't argue with fan girls, its just a waste of time

 

[Adil_94]

Too many Punk marks on this thread. He was no stonecold or Rock and never could be.

He wasn't on their level but he was the no 2 babyface WWE had in the PG era after Cena. He would make the product better if he was still there no doubt.


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[Adil_94]

@<a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/member.php?u=46929" target="_blank">shaz619</a> @<a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/member.php?u=137419" target="_blank">dashing_man</a> @<a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/member.php?u=138784" target="_blank">TheNightWatchman</a>


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[Adil_94]

Mark My Words, Punk will come back running to the WWE after his first fight.

Punk will demand to be treated like Lesnar and Vince's reply will be ) ) ) ) )

Financially Punk doesnt really need WWE atm. He is a pretty frugal guy and also even if he gets knocked the eff out he will still generate a lot of PPV buys for UFC and a good pay packet for himself. But i do think eventually Punk will go back. If Punk draws money for Vince. Vince will let bygones be bygones. $$$$ are the most important for Vinny. Look at how bitter Lesnars departure was they invested so much into the guy made him beat all the top guys but he crapped on them just two years into the biz. And left abruptly. but Vince still welcomed Lesnar back because he is a huge draw and made him end the streak. So in WWE u can never say never.

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[shaz619]

Too many Punk marks on this thread. He was no stonecold or Rock and never could be.

I don't think anyone said he was greater then Stone Cold or The Rock. However, had he been a part of the Attitude era he'd have been a big star. But to say he doesn't compare to talent from that era is naive, Punk more then held his own in his feud with The Rock and at various points out shined him on the stick. The reason why Austin stumbled on his words when he returned to RAW recently and why The Rock wasn't as successful was because of the scripted nature of promo segments and TV-PG; Punk in such an era has managed to find success despite the constraints.

 

[dashing_man]

No love for D-Bry the vanilla midget? [emoji14]

Jim Ross said Vince won't risk bringing back Bryan because of the lawsuit Bryan's family can file against the company. Bryan is no way near ready to go condition. Ross said, if he's brought back then Bryan will be in a wheel chair 15 years from now due to multiple concussions

 

[shaz619]

Mark My Words, Punk will come back running to the WWE after his first fight.

Punk will demand to be treated like Lesnar and Vince's reply will be ) ) ) ) )

If anything, it will be the WWE that come crawling to him when you look at the lack of depth in the main-event scene because they refuse to invest in so many talented members on the roster. Vince was always a big fan of Punk and nothing will hurt him more then the fact that DANA WHITE of all people realised Punk's drawing ability [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] whether Punk wins or loses in the UFC he is going to do good numbers for their PPV buyrate. Punk realises how the machine works; they bury those who actually listen to the machine and pay their dues whilst pushing part-timers who should be used to develop potential main-event talent. They won't use him like Lesnar but Punk's UFC stint is going to elevate his status even further and when it does WWE will give him the special part-timer treatment when they try to sign him again and he'll eventually feature in main-events of mania in this manner.

 

[shaz619]

Jim Ross said Vince won't risk bringing back Bryan because of the lawsuit Bryan's family can file against the company. Bryan is no way near ready to go condition. Ross said, if he's brought back then Bryan will be in a wheel chair 15 years from now due to multiple concussions

He hasn't had multiple concussions but it's the neck which is the biggest issue, in the end he has worked a style which has eventually caught up to him the wear and tear is just too much. Indy wrestlers you need to spot them a bit early or else they don't really have a long life-span in pro-wrestling, Kurt said Bryan puts his 100% in every move and bump he's not surprised he is injured now but still believes he can have a career providing they use him on a limited schedule. I personally feel Bryan should retire, there is nothing left for him to do and there was that dream match against Lesnar but Brock works too stiff. Bryan has said if they don't let him wrestle he's going to go somewhere else, won't be surprised to see him in ROH or NJPW. But from WWE's perspective they'd be stupid to let go of a baby face who is super over even without being so active; I can see them finding a common ground where they let Bryan wrestle but not on a full time schedule.

 

[dashing_man]

http://youtu.be/CRXasvC_s2I. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=137419]dashing_man[/MENTION] [MENTION=138784]TheNightWatchman[/MENTION]


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I've been saying this all along. As long as Vince keeps on involving all these stupid campaigns, he will keep getting all these low ratings. All these campaigns needs to be away from WWE Wrestling. There's no need for that. Promote them in your own time, start a new show for this which promotes all these stupid campaigns.

 

[shaz619]

No love for D-Bry the vanilla midget? [emoji14]

He's still around but the Punkster is gone for a very long time

 

[shaz619]

I've been saying this all along. As long as Vince keeps on involving all these stupid campaigns, he will keep getting all these low ratings. All these campaigns needs to be away from WWE Wrestling. There's no need for that. Promote them in your own time, start a new show for this which promotes all these stupid campaigns.

what the hell have campaigns got to do with the lack of quality? even the 80's era with Hogan at the helm wasn't this bad, there was something called consistent episodic booking you nugget go back to watching Gabi on Tough Enough and Eva on Total Divas you wannabe smark