Saud has been ready for a while. In fact, he himself is a victim of the "not ready" theory. Not too sure about Tayyab though. Agha is a much better option.
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[VIDEOS] Saim Ayub - Young Pakistani batting prospect
- Thread starter ataullah
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Saud has been ready for a while. In fact, he himself is a victim of the "not ready" theory. Not too sure about Tayyab though. Agha is a much better option.
King_Babar
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This guy looks good, but fans always hyping someone to moon after watching few shots is not something new here. Let him develop as permanent member of white ball cricket before comparing him with someone who have already proved themselves at international level against top teams. He is still 21, he has long way to go and lot more things to learn. He is destined to play for at least 7-10 years for pakistan.
I just saw some highlights posted above.
It seems like the kind of shots he’s playing he’d only be able to do that against third rate trundlers.
I don’t see a lot of technique and spark, but it won’t matter at the end of the day if his reflexes can handle 140-145kph pace and he can dispatch such bowlers to the boundary.
I want him to open and play international cricket, he can’t be worse than Rizwan and Imam as he looks to attack at least.
But fans have to calm down a bit, there might be disappointment or he could really do well against good bowling. Let’s see.
It seems like the kind of shots he’s playing he’d only be able to do that against third rate trundlers.
I don’t see a lot of technique and spark, but it won’t matter at the end of the day if his reflexes can handle 140-145kph pace and he can dispatch such bowlers to the boundary.
I want him to open and play international cricket, he can’t be worse than Rizwan and Imam as he looks to attack at least.
But fans have to calm down a bit, there might be disappointment or he could really do well against good bowling. Let’s see.
CerebralPatriot
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Has potential to be our Lara however as he is not in any friendship circle he will receive the Fawad, Sarfraz treatment
What Sarfaraz treatment? I agree that Fawad was treated badly and selected way too late in test cricket, but Sarfaraz was made the captain of the team but regressed badly with the bat and gloves and started to hide behind tailenders. Rightly booted out.
On point, Saim is too good to be ignored. This is the age of social media and there's no way you can ignore a talent like that and not pay a price for it. He'll find a way in one way or another.
Rana
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He will replace Babar and Rizwan in the opening spot first
He's done it in PSL against the likes of Ihsanullah. If you think Ihsanullah is a third rate trundler ...
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There's hardly a comparison between the two, Sayim is an immensely talented player known for his classy shot selection, whereas Haris appears to play more like a tapeball player.
I wonder sometimes how harris got selected for International Cricket.
ataullah
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Haris has all the shots. Just needs experience and patience. Smashing nortje, rabada etc is no joke. He's our 360 player. I hope he gets a county contract.
Haris relies on power and doesn’t care who the bowler is.
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Power becomes all ineffective when you are unable to enhance your game.
His shot selection is horrible but look at saim ayub how elegantly he plays his shots! always a delight to watch.
He's young he has issues with his shot selection but that'd the way he plays and in t20s it will work but not in odis agreed Saim plays more classy shots both play in the top 3 for the psl team.
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naseem went to the cpl and levelled up, lets hope saim can do the same. the fact that the tournament is completely off the radar of locals in Pakistan probably makes things easier, allows the guys to be themselves.
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Saim is a classy player playing proper shots and still striking at 145 in the CPL, very little slogging involved. That's how you know he's the real deal.
not necessarily. Australian batters for example typically debut around 27/28. Either way, Saim needs to nail down another 1-2 seasons. Don’t need another Haider Ali situation
Sigh, I'm generally too lazy to write long posts but this is one of my pet peeves so have to debunk this now.
When you have a player (or for that matter a new entrant in any field) who shows signs of being a prodigy you should try to nurture them in a way that will magnify their talents and increase the chance of their success. In this case, will playing domestic cricket on dead tracks against third-rate attacks add anything to Saim's game? It might, but there is a higher probability that it will make his game worse. Had he been someone more suited for the longer version there might have been some merit to this claim but for LOIs you really don't need much experience these days given how similar the conditions and pitches are.
International cricket and not just Pakistan cricket is replete with examples of young talented cricketers with very little FC experience making their mark on the game. Take Pakistan's top international scorers and almost all of them started international cricket in some form within 1 or 2 seasons of domestic cricket. The only exception, strangely, is Babar Azam which has more to do with the selection policies of that era rather than anything else. Similarly, all top 10 international scorers (barring Dravid) played just one or two domestic seasons before starting their international careers. Look at bowlers and you will find a similar pattern. Interestingly, on this forum and generally in cricket discussions in Pakistan this point is usually reserved for young batsmen and never applied to young pacers. For quick bowlers we want to induct them in the team even before they play any domestic cricket but for batsmen you will always hear the refrain "they should first get some domestic experience". Did Shaheen or Naseem or Rauf come in with a lot of FC experience? Did they swim or sink? Good talent mostly finds its way through. As for Haider Ali, he did not fail because of lack of FC experience but because of his own temperament and because of how he was handled by the management. He was forced into an unnatural batting position without any defined role and labelled as a T20 batsman.
The only time when this theory makes sense is when you have a world class squad like the Australian team of the 90s and/or a very competitive domestic circuit which closely mirrors international conditions. Which brings me to your point about Australian cricketers. And even this is not completely accurate. Ricky Ponting, Steve Smith, David Warner were all fast tracked into international cricket. The most recent example is Cameron Green. Most of the 27/28 year old batters you are referring to are from the generation where they had an irreplaceable top order and hence the limited opportunities for players like Law, Blewett and Hodge etc. each of whom would have easily made it into any other team.
Pakistan does not have the luxury of such a deep talent pool so we have to ensure that we maximize the talent that we do have. If a youngster shows potential he should be given more opportunities to hone his talent and in Pakistan that will only happen by bringing him on the international team or at least by being on the Shaheens sqaud. In the long run you will always be better off putting your money on a prodigious youngster than an FC toiler.
There is no evidence of international batters being successful with “little to no FC” experience. The reality is the exact opposite. Very rarely is there an exception to this rule.
No one, specially batter should never be allowed near the international team until they’ve played enough seasons to build a good temperament and arrive as near-ready products.
I agree but what is Saim doing in CPL then, when we have an FC tournament going on. Shouldn't PCB be selective about which players they allow and when to play these leagues?
Just gave you more than 20 examples. Do you want me to list all of them individually?
You don’t need to provide any examples. This is the most obvious fact that 95% of the batters who have done well in the past had already impressed in domestics. India rewards its FC and List A performers like Gill, who has already played much more list A and FC than most Pak batters. Look at SKY, KL, Iyer, Kishan all have played TON of FC and List A.
Even mythical figures like Inzi. Little known fact is that even Inzi had two back2back prolific domestic list A tournaments in 90 and 91 before 92 WC started.
Pak needs to ensure a proper process and pathway to develop and reward talent. This eye test BS doesn’t scale.
Don’t mind CPL as long as he also plays 4 day. FC is most important for his dev
Although CPL has third class bowling, it’s still better than nothing. He was thoroughly tested vs Afghanistan and mostly struggled against newbies at the Emerging Asia cup. Doesn’t give confidence to me that he’s ready for the big boys based on a few shiny knocks in CPL. Don’t be deceived.
He needs to score above 50 average @ 90 SR in List A for 2 more years before he can be considered
Younis Khan FC debut 98/99 International debut Feb 2000
Yousuf FC debut 96/97 International debut Feb 1998
Miandad FC debut 73/74 International debut Jun 1975
Just three examples. Don't think any of them struggled much making the transition. Check the top international run scorers you will see a similar trend.
It would be unwise to compare Pakistan with the country with the deepest talent pool in batting. Most of these batters didn't get an early debut because India already had the likes of Rohit, Kohli, Dhawan etc. You are also ignoring the fact that players like Gill and Jaiswal WERE picked "out of turn" because of their prodigious talent. Both made domestic runs but there were others who also had a lot of runs. These two were not just picked on the weight of their runs but also their talent.
Also Shubman Gill made his FC debut on 17 Nov 17 and international debut on 31 Jan 19 (in just 13 months).
Pakistan doesn't have the luxury that India does. They have tens of batsmen who could easily adjust in international cricket. Who do we have? Ignore the "eye test BS", who will you pick based on domestic performance? Imran Butt, Umar Amin and Ahmed Shahzad? All 3 were amongst the top runs scorers in the last ODI cup and would qualify based on your criteria as the the likes of Saim, Haseebullah and Mubasir don't have "enough experience".
Rana
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You’ve got to hand it to Chris Gayle
He wasn’t joking about Saim’s talent
He wasn’t joking about Saim’s talent
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To be honest, I am gutted to see that Saim is not in the squad.
daytrader
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Another 50 for Saim, this time in the final! Youngsta beauty hit some exiting shots hitting 5 sixes
Asif321
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Azam and ayub should be in WT20 squad definitely.
King_Babar
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What an amazing tournament for him. He is definitely gonna key player for next T20 WC.
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Saim Ayub at CPL 2023
478 run
Innings: 13
Average: 43.45
SR: 142.26
478 run
Innings: 13
Average: 43.45
SR: 142.26
Key player if he's allowed to play as an opener.
Opening is the easiest job in t20 they should let Saim start at that position. Captain Babar should bat 1 down take responsibility and to the tougher job of carrying the side in middle overs
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adi_62941
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His FC and List A stats are below average. He needs to play atleast 2 complete seasons in order to be judged for selection in national team for ODI or test. However he is ready for T20
CerebralPatriot
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If this was 2017 such a performance would have been rewarded with Saim getting the long rope to open in a team which rewarded merit.
Now he will be put on the bench and played only in dead rubbers batting at 6 so Babar and Rizwan can continue their stat padding and when he inevitably fails batting so low all the fickle fans will begin crying for him to be dropped
Can't even be excited for new talent anymore
Now he will be put on the bench and played only in dead rubbers batting at 6 so Babar and Rizwan can continue their stat padding and when he inevitably fails batting so low all the fickle fans will begin crying for him to be dropped
Can't even be excited for new talent anymore
Rana
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Great batting by Pakistan’s number 4
I think the best thing about his innings today was how he battled it out against Narine and then took apart salamkheil. He was lucky against Narine got dropped twice by the keeper, but it was a tough pitch and he stuck it out. Should have been a wildcard pick for the WC squad.
King_Babar
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As a player he should be comfortable to play anywhere in top 4. But yes for the future WC, he should be opening along with Rizwan or Babar.
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50 over is completely different game, any below par performance would have shattered his confidence. He has age on his side, post WC need to be regular member of Pak team in white ball cricket. This will allow him to gain more international experience by the time next WC arrives.
ExpressPacer
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It is an absolute travesty that this guy has not been selected ESPECIALLY with the absolutely despicable form that Fakhar has been in of late.
If Fakhar was lighting up the world on fire, or at least relatively consistent, I would understand. But to not even include him in the reserves? An absolute travesty.
The bogus argument that T20 performances are not the criteria for ODI selection has been refuted by Fakhar himself who was selected for the CT on the back of T20 performance — and ended up winning it for us.
There are so many players in the squad Saim could replace.
If Fakhar was lighting up the world on fire, or at least relatively consistent, I would understand. But to not even include him in the reserves? An absolute travesty.
The bogus argument that T20 performances are not the criteria for ODI selection has been refuted by Fakhar himself who was selected for the CT on the back of T20 performance — and ended up winning it for us.
There are so many players in the squad Saim could replace.
King_Babar
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Fakhar was regularly playing domestic cricket since 2015 and was among the top performers. He was never included in national side on the basis of PSL. He doesn't have good stats in PSL either, when u compare it with international career.
ExpressPacer
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To say Fakhar wasn’t included in the CT team because of his PSL performances is a complete misrepresentation.
If his List A stats were so important, why had he never been selected before his PSL heroics right before the CT?
Pakistan, as it does now, severely lacked any modern day batsmen in 2017. Shehzad and Azhar Ali were batting like they were playing in the 60s so Pakistan recruited Fakhar in a desperate attempt to have some firepower as Fakhar had shown potential to bat quick in the PSL.
Therefore, PSL/T20s is definitely the standard to select players.
King_Babar
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No this is just an assumption and doesn't have any data to back. Fakhar in 2016-17 QAT season smashed 663 runs which included mammoth century (170) in finals. He had average of 49 in list A career before he was bought into CT tournament and replaced Shehzad. Pertinent to reiterate, he had just 1 half century in PSL at the time of his ODI debut and since he had already made international appearance in T20 where had just scored 26 in 3 matches he played.
So saying he was selected purely on the basis of PSL performance is completely wrong, he was rather PCBs long term plan for ODIs which had no influence of PSL performance.
gazza619
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Babar has other ideas and you know that very well.
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Thanks for sharing that data. However, as you will also remember, the PCB were desperately trying different openers who showed any promise for attack play, but to no avail.
Khalif Latif, Sharjeel, Azhar, to name a few. Fakhar did not have many big scores in the PSL but he had shown potential with some attacking performances.
Similarly, Asif Ali was selected in the back of PSL performances despite no big scores in the PSL itself.
Been curious to see more of Saim Ayub's batting given the recent talk of him being in the World Cup squad. These are only observations from YT highlights, I haven't seen enough of him live.
His footwork is even more static than Sharjeel's. He's nothing like Saeed Anwar - the only similarity is they're both left handed openers. A clean hitter when the ball's in his arc. Looks strong through midwicket and can play those dinky T20 style shots too.
However that stance could be problematic against good length balls outside off. He nicked off from Farooqi in the 2nd T20 vs AFG after shovelling a similar ball onto his stumps trying a scoop in the previous game. Infact in these clips there's hardly any scoring shots against such deliveries.
There's also a massive gulf between the calibre of bowlers in the CPL and World Cup. WI have declined as a T20 outfit over the last two years.
I'm not saying he hasn't any talent but looks very much in a work in progress and is definitely not ready for a 50 over World Cup right now.
His footwork is even more static than Sharjeel's. He's nothing like Saeed Anwar - the only similarity is they're both left handed openers. A clean hitter when the ball's in his arc. Looks strong through midwicket and can play those dinky T20 style shots too.
However that stance could be problematic against good length balls outside off. He nicked off from Farooqi in the 2nd T20 vs AFG after shovelling a similar ball onto his stumps trying a scoop in the previous game. Infact in these clips there's hardly any scoring shots against such deliveries.
There's also a massive gulf between the calibre of bowlers in the CPL and World Cup. WI have declined as a T20 outfit over the last two years.
I'm not saying he hasn't any talent but looks very much in a work in progress and is definitely not ready for a 50 over World Cup right now.
King_Babar
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Khalid and sharjeel were mainly for t20s before getting caught for fixing. Azhar still continued even after Fakhar's debut as he was a replacement for Shahzad. Yes Asif, Shadab, Hasan were all fast tracked to national team on the basis of PSL performance, however guys like Fakhar, Babar, Imam are purely domestic products.
from_da_lost_dim3nsion
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Bobby dont want nobody taking away his limelight. He's gonna be another Fawad Alam . Atleast he can make his money playing these thullay baz leagues
daytrader
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The ease with which he pulls a 90 MPH Andre Russel short ball for a six is something Babar could only dream of.
It is absolutely criminal that this guy is not in our WC squad. Absolutely criminal.
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone this talented from Pakistan in a very long time. He deserves a long, long rope.
It is absolutely criminal that this guy is not in our WC squad. Absolutely criminal.
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone this talented from Pakistan in a very long time. He deserves a long, long rope.
ExpressPacer
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To select an undercooked Abdullah Shafique over Saim Ayub is laughable.
I don’t like to believe in Punjab vs Karachi politics but if this ain’t politicos then I don’t know what else to call it.
I don’t like to believe in Punjab vs Karachi politics but if this ain’t politicos then I don’t know what else to call it.
hitthestump
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You really can’t think of a reason Saim wasn’t picked other than Karachi vs Punjab politics?
ExpressPacer
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Inzi is probably worried that Saim’s quality will generally replace Imam …and I say this as an actual Imam fan.
Theres not much else I can think of other than our selectors just being ridiculously naive. Saim Ayub is a breath of fresh air that this Pakistan side needs like oxygen right now.
Just watch the video posted above and watch the six he hit against Andre Russel. I haven’t seen a Pakistani batsman being able to play a world class pacer that well before.
hitthestump
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I don’t think the selectors are being naive.
They have been incompetent in not playing him beforehand.
But now is not the time to pluck Saim out of thin air and throw him to the wolves, telling him it’s time to swim otherwise he’ll have 200 million people on his back.
They’d just be compounding their mistakes and we’d be risking ruining a talent like they did with Haider.
ads101
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Saim, Haris, Abdullah are all undercooked. We are desperate trying to rely on youngsters with hardly any experience who aren’t even properly dominating in domestic cricket. Only one is Abdullah in tests, which is his more natural game.
It’s not worth the risk of ruining players for some desperate short term success. The more failures young batsmen rack up the greater the chance they won’t succeed in the long term. What has happened to Haider. Tbh the way people talk about Haris and Abdullah some are already writing them off just like they did with Haider.
Bowlers should be picked young. Batsmen however generally need time. It is partially why we are a weak batting nation, we develop our talented young players badly and what ends up is the less talented experienced guys given chances later in life, dominating domestic end up taking up international spots.
Bewal Express
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Saim needs this year in FC and play long innings.
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Bilal7
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Excited about Saim and Haris. Both these guys need to be given a long rope and should feature in out T20 team next year and the ODI team in 2025.
They also need to work on developing their secondary skills more (not that they aren't). Having a top-order batsman who bowls and a big-hitting keeper will be fantastic for the balance of our future teams.
Potential 2024 T20 WC team:
1) Babar
2) Rizwan
3) Saim
4) Haris (wk)
5) Iftikhar
6) Imad
7) Shadab
8) Shaheen
9) Naseem
10) Zaman
11) Haris
Potential 2025 CT team:
1) Imam
2) Saim
3) Babar
4) Rizwan
5) Saud
6) Haris (wk)
7) Shadab
8) Nawaz/Usama/Abrar/Jamal
9) Shaheen
10) Naseem
11) Haris
They also need to work on developing their secondary skills more (not that they aren't). Having a top-order batsman who bowls and a big-hitting keeper will be fantastic for the balance of our future teams.
Potential 2024 T20 WC team:
1) Babar
2) Rizwan
3) Saim
4) Haris (wk)
5) Iftikhar
6) Imad
7) Shadab
8) Shaheen
9) Naseem
10) Zaman
11) Haris
Potential 2025 CT team:
1) Imam
2) Saim
3) Babar
4) Rizwan
5) Saud
6) Haris (wk)
7) Shadab
8) Nawaz/Usama/Abrar/Jamal
9) Shaheen
10) Naseem
11) Haris
Considering how poor the bowling has been this year and how easy the pitches are to bat on, if he plays a few games he could boost his average massively.
I totally don't understand this. We know how pitches in India play, 80% of the games will be batsman's paradise where the first power play explosion will be the key to set the tone.
What is the reason behind not including this natural stroke maker in the opening slot?
We can't use the young excuse since there is a whole history of young cricketers doing well in big tournaments. They usually don't have the pressure like experienced players do. Opposition bowlers will have 0 fear running into bowl to our top order batsman.
I have already seen this kid smack top Pakistani bowlers. He should have been part of the greater squad at least. Our top 4 are so slow that we could have afforded an aggressive batsman.
What is the reason behind not including this natural stroke maker in the opening slot?
We can't use the young excuse since there is a whole history of young cricketers doing well in big tournaments. They usually don't have the pressure like experienced players do. Opposition bowlers will have 0 fear running into bowl to our top order batsman.
I have already seen this kid smack top Pakistani bowlers. He should have been part of the greater squad at least. Our top 4 are so slow that we could have afforded an aggressive batsman.
shah_1
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He is not ready yet
Rana
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Never cease to amaze
It’s not the time to throw Saim to the wolves but it’s ok to throw Abdullah, Zaman and Abrar
ahmadharis1
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I think he's well earned a run in the T20I team to contend for a spot in the 2024 T20 World Cup, but I would wait a bit before having him in the ODI team
Its India, 80% of the tracks will be flat tracks where you need offensive explosion in the powerplay. Footwork isn't that important, whats more important than footwork is balance and a stable base. He has way more stable base than Fakhar, I would still have Fakhar in the squad including Saim.
This kid has knocked around Pakistans best bowlers and has shots all around the ground. I've seen him smack Amir, Rauf, Rashid Khan plus others.
To not select him is crazy given the conditions we will be playing in. Its not England. Opposition teams will have 0 fear running into to bowl at Pakistani top order.
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Why not? He's playing excellent cricketing shots with a lot of confidence and when you see our current top order he could easily replace Fakhar Zaman since Saim is also capable of playing an aggressive style of play.
gazza619
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If Babar was the captain in 1992, Inzi wouldn't have been ready either.
shah_1
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Inzamam had a lot of first class success, he needs to perform in first class as well.
Bilal7
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Saim, Haris, Azam and the others were recently humiliated against the Afghans. Let's not be so quick to throw them into the fire.
It's better for these guys to be eased into international cricket. T20s first and then ODIs. Perhaps eventually they'll play test cricket too.
Not every young batsman is an Inzamam and not every captain is Imran.
It's better for these guys to be eased into international cricket. T20s first and then ODIs. Perhaps eventually they'll play test cricket too.
Not every young batsman is an Inzamam and not every captain is Imran.
Thank you for posting this.
The myth of Inzi’s WC inclusion has done so much harm to Pakistani mentality that folks still use it as an excuse to suggest left field decisions.
As you rightly pointed out, Inzi had 2 very strong FC seasons behind him. He was not a rookie and he rose from performances in the domestic system.
Saim is extremely talented but he shouldn’t be rushed. He needs to nail down 2 FC seasons.
Major
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so misbah wanted saim ayub in the team
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well i think let him play few matches in first class then it will better to call for international duty.
but i am afraid that t20 cricket will ruin his batting capabilities which he can very much utilize in ODI and Test cricket.
but i am afraid that t20 cricket will ruin his batting capabilities which he can very much utilize in ODI and Test cricket.
I've noticed this habit from Misbah that for all his seemingly levelheaded nature, he goes from one extreme to the other with selections.
There's this notion Misbah, because he was an older cricketer himself, favoured older players. That's partly true but I think Misbah would hear this criticism - and overcompensates by throwing in very raw kids from nowhere.
The best example is the 2019 Australia tour when Musa Khan and Naseem Shah were prematurely given debuts. That tour did more harm than good for Naseem.
Agreed, it's a bit premature and I think it's something that will come with experience from him. He still has power on the off-side but he would struggle a bit to rotate the strike or play proper cut shots on balls wide of him. In CPL, teams started bowling him very wide to stay away from his on-side power and force a false shot out of him and those balls would often end up juicy enough to cut but Saim wasn't cut able to pull it off.
That will be a part of his game to work on along with rotation of strike vs spin. He can smash any spinner or pacer and is quite comfortable playing pace but a bit weak vs spin. He can slog sweep it but struggles to navigate spin at times when that shot isn't on.
Will be amazing down the line but is still a bit raw and has areas to work on. His inclusion in WC squad would have been too premature and I can't recall any player making his ODI debut at the WC stage. It's just a crazy nonsense thing to happen.
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Saim Ayub scores his maiden first-class, in the match between Karachi Whites and Multan at Shoaib Akhtar Cricket Stadium, Rawalpindi
Officer Barbrady
ODI Debutant
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He should be part of the test squad for Australia. Though I realize he won’t be
No lol Let him pile on the runs and beg for a call up in test.
In T20s, he can be eased in but not a regular yet.
Gill has already played 45 FC and 70 List A games. He hasn’t even turned 25 yet. Saud Shakeel has similar mileage as Gill in the domestic although he’s 28.
There must be players in domestic who have already played 50+ FC and List A. Nailed them down. Bring them first.
In T20s, he can be eased in but not a regular yet.
Gill has already played 45 FC and 70 List A games. He hasn’t even turned 25 yet. Saud Shakeel has similar mileage as Gill in the domestic although he’s 28.
There must be players in domestic who have already played 50+ FC and List A. Nailed them down. Bring them first.
After one FC century? Haven't we seen Pakistan get humiliated enough in Australia with undercooked dudes?
Just let him dominate domestically for a bit and Australia is the last place any player should be debuting for Tests. Even Babar in his early days was completely abysmal in Australia before redeeming himself next time they toured. His time will come, just be patient instead of rushing every youngster.
Bewal Express
Test Star
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Needs to play a full season of FC
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