Babar Azam vs Travis Head - Who is the better batter in all formats?

[jeeteshssaxena]

Even though Head has been a HTB in test cricket, I still rate him higher than Babar because similar to Head Babar has no impact knocks away from home but he also creates very little impact in home conditions.

 

[MHN1293]

No need to put neutral there, away matches are played in oppositions home, neutral matches shouldn’t be included.

Head averaged 29 away from home.

The best all format batsmen in the world avgs 29 away from home

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Guys this thread isn't about Rizwan, so please don't go off topic

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Head WTC final knock>> babar Azam performance outside the subcontinent .

Both are Mediocre outside the home but head has one memorable knock which put him ahead of Babar Azam.

But why are you counting a knock vs Shardul Thakur in England for Head => Babar has tons vs SL in SL and Aus in Aus? Head when he had to face English bowlers in England was a failure and got owned in SL as well. Pure HTB.

 

[Fanboy375]

View attachment 148899

This HTB has played 41 innings outside of Aus with 1 century (which was a neutral 100, not even an away one lol).

In Australia he has only played 4 innings more. HTB of the highest orderView attachment 148900

Yeah he played almost half his matches outside like other batsman.It just that he didn't play many matches.He also had the opportunity to play good in Pak with just 23 4s despite playing 1 less match in Ind he scored 56 4s.Even in Eng where he played modest number of 18 innings he typically score 30 runs per innings

 

[Shafikapeo]

I will rather choose to face Babar Azam than Travis Head any day. Travis Head is a different breed of a Cricketer.

 

[Snowflake]

When Head scores, Australia wins. When Babar scores, others need to score too for Pak to win.

I'd take Head over Babar in LOIs any day!

 

[Fanboy375]

Babar is a slow minnow busher agree.But don't pretend that Head is innocent.Babar has advantage over Head in odi and test.Unless Head play some good innings outside of Aus in odi and test.I do think if Babar doesn't overcome his decline than Head will overthrow him.But until now Babar>Head

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Babar is a slow minnow busher agree.But don't pretend that Head is innocent.Babar has advantage over Head in odi and test.Unless Head play some good innings outside of Aus in odi and test.I do think if Babar doesn't overcome his decline than Head will overthrow him.But until now Babar>Head

Nobody has any answers to the numbers - I am thankful to @Ab Fan for this thread. I never realised Head was such a big HTB.

 

[Mesozoic]

Babar has more 2 test centuries away from home, Head has 0.

Jaiswal who started playing last year has 2 away Test hundreds to his name. You're saying that as if Babar has 20.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Jaiswal who started playing last year has 2 away Test hundreds to his name. You're saying as if Babar has 20.

I am comparing him to Head who has 0 in 19 tests played in the opposition's den.

 

[Mesozoic]

I am comparing him to Head who has 0 in 19 tests played in the opposition's den.

You're comparing him to someone who has match winning hundreds in a WC final and a WTC final. Sit down.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

You're comparing him to someone who has match winning hundreds in a WC final and a WTC final. Sit down.

Why are you mixing formats now when Head's away record has been exposed? Babar has a century against Australia in Australia, get back to me when Head scores a test hundred away from home (currently ZERO, only century is vs Shardul Thakur on a dead pitch). I'll be sitting until then.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

The best all format batsmen in the world avgs 29 away from home

Tailender in tests when he is in the opposition's den. Pure HTB.

 

[Mesozoic]

So Yasir Shah is a better batsman than Travis Head because he has an away hundred in Australia.

How do people unironically have such clownish opinions?

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

So Yasir Shah is a better batsman than Travis Head because he has an away hundred in Australia.

How do people unironically have such clownish opinions?

That's an intellectually dishonest argument - in fact I could turn that around using your WTC final argument and say that as it is the only thing to rate him above Babar in tests, Jamieson who won WTC final in 2021 for NZ >>>>> McGrath, Bhumrah, Steyn etc.

We are comparing like for like here, Yasir Shah does not have an overall comparable record as a batsman. Head is an utter failure in tests in the opposition's den, and even accounting for century vs Shardul Thakur in England, he has 1 century in 41 innings. You can slice and dice it any way you want, that is a poor record. End of story.

 

[Mesozoic]

That's an intellectually dishonest argument - in fact I could turn that around using your WTC final argument and say that as it is the only thing to rate him above Babar in tests, Jamieson who won WTC final in 2021 for NZ >>>>> McGrath, Bhumrah, Steyn etc.

We are comparing like for like here, Yasir Shah does not have an overall comparable record as a batsman. Head is an utter failure in tests in the opposition's den, and even accounting for century vs Shardul Thakur in England, he has 1 century in 41 innings. You can slice and dice it any way you want, that is a poor record. End of story.

Lol you're the one who kept on repeating the "more away hundreds" as if that's the only thing that mattered. Don't cry now when it's flipped on you..

In simpler words, Travis Head is the kind of guy who will have average numbers but will win major tournaments for your country by performing when it matters the most.

Babar Azam is a the kind of guy who will have above average numbers who won't even come to winning anything major other than Tapal Tea Cup series.

Pick your poison.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

There is an argument to be had for Head > Babar in T20I - I agree (and remember, using the same WC, WTC argument, here Babar blows away Head as he has a match winning T20 WC SF knock and Head has not even played T20 SFs...)

There is also an argument for Head > Babar in ODI although Babar has 19 ODI hundreds and a much bigger body of work especially on flat tracks.

However, there is zero argument for Head > Babar in tests. Head has been a pure HTB. 1 out of 9 centuries outside Australia with almost half the innings outside Australia is testament to this. His one innings vs Shardul Thakur in Oval does not negate Babar's splendid away tons in Aus and SL (same SL where Head looked like a tailender).

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Lol you're the one who kept on repeating the "more away hundreds" as if that's the only thing that mattered. Don't cry now when it's flipped on you..

In simpler words, Travis Head is the kind of guy who will have average numbers but will win major tournaments for your country by performing when it matters the most.

Babar Azam is a the kind of guy who will have above average numbers who won't even come to winning anything major other than Tapal Tea Cup series.

Pick your poison.

I never said it is the ONLY thing that mattered. Babar and Head have comparable test records as batsmen, yes? But Travis is a pure HTB, yes he will win you a major tournament as long as he has to face Shardul Thakur at the Oval, but so far, every time he has faced teams in their own den, he has failed - averages 29 away from home in the opposition's own den, 32 including the Shardul 100. Over 41 innings outside of Australia, that is a poor, HTB record. Anyone being honest knows it. He was also owned on the same Pak pitches Babar scores 100s for fun on.

 

[Mesozoic]

I never said it is the ONLY thing that mattered. Babar and Head have comparable test records as batsmen, yes? But Travis is a pure HTB, yes he will win you a major tournament as long as he has to face Shardul Thakur at the Oval, but so far, every time he has faced teams in their own den, he has failed - averages 29 away from home in the opposition's own den, 32 including the Shardul 100. Over 41 innings outside of Australia, that is a poor, HTB record. Anyone being honest knows it. He was also owned on the same Pak pitches Babar scores 100s for fun on.

Okay mate. I'm sure Head is devastated to hear that he's an inferior batter to Babar and will probably wipe his tears away with the WC and WTC winning medals that he has in his cabinet.

 

[MHN1293]

Lol you're the one who kept on repeating the "more away hundreds" as if that's the only thing that mattered. Don't cry now when it's flipped on you..

In simpler words, Travis Head is the kind of guy who will have average numbers but will win major tournaments for your country by performing when it matters the most.

Babar Azam is a the kind of guy who will have above average numbers who won't even come to winning anything major other than Tapal Tea Cup series.

Pick your poison.

Put head in any midtable team and with his avg of 29 Away he isnt gonna help them reach any tournament finals. Lets see how he will perform in finals and semifinals if he wont make them.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Okay mate. I'm sure Head is devastated to hear that he's an inferior batter to Babar and will probably wipe his tears away with the WC and WTC winning medals that he has in his cabinet.

Again when you have no argument deflect! Babar can wipe his tears with the 31 international hundreds and match winning ICC CT 2017 and many more to come.

 

[Fanboy375]

You're comparing him to someone who has match winning hundreds in a WC final and a WTC final. Sit down.

Ponting has match winning hundred in wc final.Therefore Ponting>Sachin.Wow

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Put head in any midtable team and with his avg of 29 Away he isnt gonna help them reach any tournament finals. Lets see how he will perform in finals and semifinals if he wont make them.

Based on Head's test record, if the WTC final is played in the den of the opposition he will score 29 runs.

 

[Ab Fan]

What are Babar’s away stats then?

Let’s split this comparison into two halves.

Home performance:-

Travis Head wins it easily. He has scored some game changing impactful knocks coming to bat at 5 vs top teams like India, England etc.

Babar’s best home performance was 196 vs Australia which was a quality knock. But he struggled against rest such as England, NZ or South Africa on pitches where opposition team batsman outperformed him with ease.

Away performance:-

Head has a WTC Final knock which was undoubtedly a memorable one and a knock where he really took the game away from India. Smith just supported him with a ton but real game changer was Head.

What all knocks Babar has? He played some pretty fifties in SA but there is a clear lack of impact knocks. Averages are good to look once the sample is high. If I am not wrong, he has failed in Australia.He will tour England more and I am sure if he hits test tons or memorable 80-90, it will be acknowledged. Right now, he got some fifties there and he stayed not out but it made no major impact. Someone needs to do an impact analysis of Babar’s away knocks because on top of my head, I can’t think of much.

I think clearly Head makes a stronger case here despite home bullying. Babar’s away stats maybe better but those away numbers are not translating into performance that you remember.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

What are Babar’s away stats then?

Let’s split this comparison into two halves.

Home performance:-

Travis Head wins it easily. He has scored some game changing impactful knocks coming to bat at 5 vs top teams like India, England etc.

Babar’s best home performance was 196 vs Australia which was a quality knock. But he struggled against rest such as England, NZ or South Africa on pitches where opposition team batsman outperformed him with ease.

Away performance:-

Head has a WTC Final knock which was undoubtedly a memorable one and a knock where he really took the game away from India. Smith just supported him with a ton but real game changer was Head.

What all knocks Babar has? He played some pretty fifties in SA but there is a clear lack of impact knocks. Averages are good to look once the sample is high. If I am not wrong, he has failed in Australia.He will tour England more and I am sure if he hits test tons or memorable 80-90, it will be acknowledged. Right now, he got some fifties there and he stayed not out but it made no major impact. Someone needs to do an impact analysis of Babar’s away knocks because on top of my head, I can’t think of much.

I think clearly Head makes a stronger case here despite home bullying. Babar’s away stats maybe better but those away numbers are not translating into performance that you remember.

Well it's not Babar's fault if his century didn't win the test in Australia? Head plays for a much stronger test side - would Head with his average of 29 away be able to have a winning cabinet if he played for Pak?

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Head already played a gem of an innings in the WC final and lifted the trophy. Babar has played in more tournaments without any much impact, he can only dream of an innings-like Head's on big stage and will likely end up without winning a WC in any format.

 

[Mesozoic]

I think this thread once again proves the fact that most South Asian cricket fans are horrible at rating players and also why subcontinent teams get owned by the likes of Australia and England when it matters the most.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

What are Babar’s away stats then?

Let’s split this comparison into two halves.

Home performance:-

Travis Head wins it easily. He has scored some game changing impactful knocks coming to bat at 5 vs top teams like India, England etc.

Babar’s best home performance was 196 vs Australia which was a quality knock. But he struggled against rest such as England, NZ or South Africa on pitches where opposition team batsman outperformed him with ease.

Away performance:-

Head has a WTC Final knock which was undoubtedly a memorable one and a knock where he really took the game away from India. Smith just supported him with a ton but real game changer was Head.

What all knocks Babar has? He played some pretty fifties in SA but there is a clear lack of impact knocks. Averages are good to look once the sample is high. If I am not wrong, he has failed in Australia.He will tour England more and I am sure if he hits test tons or memorable 80-90, it will be acknowledged. Right now, he got some fifties there and he stayed not out but it made no major impact. Someone needs to do an impact analysis of Babar’s away knocks because on top of my head, I can’t think of much.

I think clearly Head makes a stronger case here despite home bullying. Babar’s away stats maybe better but those away numbers are not translating into performance that you remember.

Also if WTC final performances are everything, then Jamieson > Bhumrah and Ashwin > every non-Aus non-NZ bowler lol yet some same "fan" who were denigrating Ashwin are now squirming as Head is exposed as a HTB.

 

[Fanboy375]

Babar and Head away records vs non minnows.I am ignoring neutral venues for Babar and adding neutral venues for Head.You see Babar is obviously ahead

	Babar	Head
Innings	49	41
50s	13	6
100s	2	1

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Regardless of how people feel about Babar vs Head, I am glad Head's stats are there for everyone to see. Pure HTB and hopefully he can finally get an away 100 in the opposition's den.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Babar and Head away records vs non minnows.I am ignoring neutral venues for Babar and adding neutral venues for Head.You see Babar is obviously ahead

	Babar	Head
Innings	49	41
50s	13	6
100s	2	1

Removing neutral venues for Head exposes him even more, or add it to Babar's as well.

 

[Fanboy375]

Also if WTC final performances are everything, then Jamieson > Bhumrah and Ashwin > every non-Aus non-NZ bowler lol yet some same "fan" who were denigrating Ashwin are now squirming as Head is exposed as a HTB.

Also winning matches performance is also not reliable.Ponting 164 vs SA in 2006 was a losing innings.But Brendon McCullum 131 vs Pak in 2009 was a match winner.So 131>164

 

[MHN1293]

What are Babar’s away stats then?

Let’s split this comparison into two halves.

Home performance:-

Travis Head wins it easily. He has scored some game changing impactful knocks coming to bat at 5 vs top teams like India, England etc.

Babar’s best home performance was 196 vs Australia which was a quality knock. But he struggled against rest such as England, NZ or South Africa on pitches where opposition team batsman outperformed him with ease.

Away performance:-

Head has a WTC Final knock which was undoubtedly a memorable one and a knock where he really took the game away from India. Smith just supported him with a ton but real game changer was Head.

What all knocks Babar has? He played some pretty fifties in SA but there is a clear lack of impact knocks. Averages are good to look once the sample is high. If I am not wrong, he has failed in Australia.He will tour England more and I am sure if he hits test tons or memorable 80-90, it will be acknowledged. Right now, he got some fifties there and he stayed not out but it made no major impact. Someone needs to do an impact analysis of Babar’s away knocks because on top of my head, I can’t think of much.

I think clearly Head makes a stronger case here despite home bullying. Babar’s away stats maybe better but those away numbers are not translating into performance that you remember.

Other than that brilliant century in the final he only has a 90 against india in a rain affected drawn game on the flattest of flat decks and 2 70s in england
Babar has a matchsaving 100 in srilanka, 100 and 90 odd in Austrailia and 5-6 fifties in eng and nz. If you followed the 2019 tour even if Babar hit a triple century it wouldnt have helped Paks cause. In Nz and Sa the last time he toured he was still young but still had decent tours. Based on this i would say him and travis are pretty equal in terms of away impact. ofc heads home impact is far greater

 

[Ab Fan]

Well it's not Babar's fault if his century didn't win the test in Australia? Head plays for a much stronger test side - would Head with his average of 29 away be able to have a winning cabinet if he played for Pak?

Babar has played 8 tests and averages 25 in Australia. That’s poor. He doesn’t have to win games there single handedly but produce a good output as a specialist batter.

Impact performances means producing one of the following:-

1. Match winning performance away from home as standout performer
2. Prolific series with bat(400-500 runs)
3. A memorable knock( eg- Shafiq Brisbane 2018) alongwith good average.

Any one of these three would do. But

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Babar has played 8 tests and averages 25 in Australia. That’s poor. He doesn’t have to win games there single handedly but produce a good output as a specialist batter.

Impact performances means producing one of the following:-

1. Match winning performance away from home
2. Prolific series with bat(400-500 runs)
3. A memorable knock( eg- Shafiq Brisbane 2018) alongwith good average.

Babar has a match winning away century in SL on a turning pitch - Head does not even have an away 100 yet, he should not get a pass for his poor away record. He is a HTB.

By that measure, Head has done jack outside of his beloved Aus in tests bar one innings vs Shardul at the Oval...if that means he is Bradman and we can overlook his pathetic stats over a 41 innings sample outside of Aus then ok. We should give the same courtesy then to the likes of Jamieson and Ashwin though...

 

[Fanboy375]

Other than that brilliant century in the final he only has a 90 against india in a rain affected drawn game on the flattest of flat decks and 2 70s in england
Babar has a matchsaving 100 in srilanka, 100 and 90 odd in Austrailia and 5-6 fifties in eng and nz. If you followed the 2019 tour even if Babar hit a triple century it wouldnt have helped Paks cause. In Nz and Sa the last time he toured he was still young but still had decent tours. Based on this i would say him and travis are pretty equal in terms of away impact. ofc heads home impact is far greater

In home Head played 15 out of 45 innings vs Ind.But in away he played 8 out of 41 innings vs Ind.In both cases he scored 60 runs per innings.He is very comfortable against this one particular team.That could explain why he has big gap between home vs away

 

[jnaveen1980]

This is 2012 under-19 world cup stats. Head has come a longway since then.But in terms of strike rate Babar was pathetic.

Player	Mat	Runs	Ave	SR
Anamul Haque (BD19)	6	365	60.83	85.08
Babar Azam (PAK19)	6	287	57.40	65.52
Javed Ahmadi (AFG19)	6	285	47.50	104.39
Q de Kock (SA19)	6	284	47.33	102.52
CJ Bowes (SA19)	6	283	47.16	75.26
WG Bosisto (AUS19)	6	276	276.00	55.75
Litton Das (BD19)	6	262	52.40	61.5
UBT Chand (IND19)	6	246	49.20	75
BT Foakes (ENG19)	6	234	39.00	92.49
RR O'Donnell (NZ19)	6	232	38.66	59.79
RE McLean (SCO19)	6	227	37.83	59.26
TB de Bruyn (SA19)	6	221	44.20	93.64
KC Brathwaite (WI19)	6	213	53.25	55.03
CN Kent (PNG19)	6	205	41.00	71.67
Najibullah Zadran (AFG19)	6	204	34.00	96.68
RP Burl (ZIM19)	6	201	33.50	85.16
Mohammad Nawaz (PAK19)	6	199	49.75	100
TE Kane (IRE19)	6	197	49.25	61.56
CT Bancroft (AUS19)	5	196	39.20	62.82
Afsar Zazai (AFG19)	6	193	38.60	81.09
DS Weerakkody (SL19)	6	189	63.00	94.02
AJADDLA Jayasinghe (SL19)	6	183	36.60	72.04
SK Patel (IND19)	6	178	59.33	64.25
SKW Wood (ENG19)	6	177	35.40	84.28
P Chopra (IND19)	6	172	28.66	58.9
TM Head (AUS19)	6	172	34.40	88.2

 

[Ab Fan]

Babar has a match winning away century in SL on a turning pitch - Head does not even have an away 100 yet, he should not get a pass for his poor away record. He is a HTB.

By that measure, Head has done jack outside of his beloved Aus in tests bar one innings vs Shardul at the Oval...if that means he is Bradman and we can overlook his pathetic stats over a 41 innings sample outside of Aus then ok. We should give the same courtesy then to the likes of Jamieson and Ashwin though...

Babar has 2 hundreds away from home and Head 1. Not much difference because both lack impact away from home. Babar is slightly ahead but not much.

Head is well ahead of Babar at home and that’s why Head is better.

The difference at home is marginal while much bigger away from home.

 

[khyberlion]

Would happily swap Travis head for Babar any day. Cricket is not just about statistics. Travis head has won an odi WC and the test championship pretty much by himself.

 

[MHN1293]

Would happily swap Travis head for Babar any day. Cricket is not just about statistics. Travis head has won an odi WC and the test championship pretty much by himself.

No he hasnt. He wasnt even top 30 runs scorers in the odi Wc. Give credit to his team

 

[khyberlion]

No he hasnt. He wasnt even top 30 runs scorers in the odi Wc. Give credit to his team

Thats because he was injured and didn't play all the games. That knock in the WC final alone is better than babar's career till date.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

This is a good post and I can see your point of view even if I would take Babar over Head in ODIs on most pitches except ultra flat phattas. You see the bias here against Babar though? Head is revered when he scores on a phatta in MCG or Sydney but Babar will be castigated for not performing in seaming conditions vs Garner and McGrath on a green pitch in November. Head's 0 away centuries and poor away record is being overlooked and is called "so-called" as if it doesn't actually exist lol.

There is a bias against Babar on this forum for sure but it's been exacerbated by Babars own decline and timidness.

Head has the two knocks discussed in great detail by others - the WTC and world cup final. These are the types of knocks that build legacies for batsmen.

Hand on heart how many such knocks can you think of for Babar?

It's a sad situation where a player of Babars class is getting compared to these type of players - sadder still when the comparison is valid.

Babar is running out of time to do something special for his country

 

[MHN1293]

Thats because he was injured and didn't play all the games. That knock in the WC final alone is better than babar's career till date.

Doesnt mean he won the wc himself. Performances that qualify a team for the knockouts are just as important as those in the knockouts

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

There is a bias against Babar on this forum for sure but it's been exacerbated by Babars own decline and timidness.

Head has the two knocks discussed in great detail by others - the WTC and world cup final. These are the types of knocks that build legacies for batsmen.

Hand on heart how many such knocks can you think of for Babar?

DV bhai, I am not arguing that those are not great knocks - but the overall body of work also needs to be comparable. Sreesanth has 2 WCs, is he better than Waqar?

Head deserves credit for those 2 knocks - however we also need to acknowledge he did bugger all in the WC before he faced India in the final where he chased a middling total under lights where the pitch got better - other one was against Shardul Thakur at the Oval, his only 100 outside of Australia to date in 41 (!!) innings.

Hand on heart, I can think of Babar T20 innings vs India 2021, the 196 vs Australia and WC 2019 ton vs NZ. I agree Head has more memorable knocks but overall body of work matters and what makes a knock memorable is also the team - Head's innings would have mattered little had India fielded first in the WC final or if he had played India in India in the WTC final. Also, Head has virtually no performances against teams not named India - failure in the Ashes.

Now hand on heart DV bhai, can we agree Head is a HTB? Yes, Babar needs to step up as well but it is definitely a close comparison either way.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Babar has 2 hundreds away from home and Head 1. Not much difference because both lack impact away from home. Babar is slightly ahead but not much.

Head is well ahead of Babar at home and that’s why Head is better.

The difference at home is marginal while much bigger away from home.

Factually, Travis has no hundreds "away" from home (technical, I know it was a honest mistake on your side). If you are counting neutral venues, it is 3 for Babar, not 2.



I am not convinced that Head's impact at home is not at least in part down to the better team he has compared to Babar. If he had Pak test team, I am not sure how much "impact" he would have.

 

[Ab Fan]

Factually, Travis has no hundreds "away" from home (technical, I know it was a honest mistake on your side). If you are counting neutral venues, it is 3 for Babar, not 2.

View attachment 148912

I am not convinced that Head's impact at home is not at least in part down to the better team he has compared to Babar. If he had Pak test team, I am not sure how much "impact" he would have.

I think one of Babar’s 100 was in UAE, which is factually included in neutral venues. But UAE was a venue where Pakistan were playing their home games for last 10 years. It was a venue where rest of the team played Pakistan as their away games and Pakistan played their home games. Everyone toured UAE to only play Pakistan and not anyone else.

Anyways, Babar’s away performance is not much to write off. He will need test hundreds in Aus, Eng, SA, NZ to make a stronger case vs Travis Head.

Given that Head is a genuine match winner and a big match player who has great record at home while Babar has an average record at home or UAE, he needs to be better than Head away from home quite comfortably to be rated as good or higher.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

DV bhai, I am not arguing that those are not great knocks - but the overall body of work also needs to be comparable. Sreesanth has 2 WCs, is he better than Waqar?

Head deserves credit for those 2 knocks - however we also need to acknowledge he did bugger all in the WC before he faced India in the final where he chased a middling total under lights where the pitch got better - other one was against Shardul Thakur at the Oval, his only 100 outside of Australia to date in 41 (!!) innings.

Hand on heart, I can think of Babar T20 innings vs India 2021, the 196 vs Australia and WC 2019 ton vs NZ. I agree Head has more memorable knocks but overall body of work matters and what makes a knock memorable is also the team - Head's innings would have mattered little had India fielded first in the WC final or if he had played India in India in the WTC final. Also, Head has virtually no performances against teams not named India - failure in the Ashes.

Now hand on heart DV bhai, can we agree Head is a HTB? Yes, Babar needs to step up as well but it is definitely a close comparison either way.

I agree with you. We can't solely focus on those two knocks because I don't think any player in the history of the game has a WTC final and ODI final century.

I am just noting that if we consider overall body of work for a player of Babar potential we should be expecting more than the two you have highlighted ( these are the two main I can think of too).

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

I think one of Babar’s 100 was in UAE, which is factually included in neutral venues. But UAE was a venue where Pakistan were playing their home games for last 10 years. It was a venue where rest of the team played Pakistan as their away games and Pakistan played their home games. Everyone toured UAE to only play Pakistan and not anyone else.

Anyways, Babar’s away performance is not much to write off. He will need test hundreds in Aus, Eng, SA, NZ to make a stronger case vs Travis Head.

Given that Head is a genuine match winner and a big match player who has great record at home while Babar has an average record at home or UAE, he needs to be better than Head away from home quite comfortably to be rated as good or higher.

Considering that Head's only 100 outside of Aus is vs Shardul Thakur in England, I don't think we should be qualifying Babar's 100s in neutral venues. For me, Head cannot live off one innings in 41 tries forever and hide behind his strong team at home --> if he is really impactful, let's see it away from home. Babar has a lot of improve as well and Insha'Allah he will.
I take it you also agree with my Jamieson and Ashwin points?

Regardless I am glad Head's stats are exposed and the HTB record is there for all to see, regardless of opinions on Babar.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

I agree with you. We can't solely focus on those two knocks because I don't think any player in the history of the game has a WTC final and ODI final century.

I am just noting that if we consider overall body of work for a player of Babar potential we should be expecting more than the two you have highlighted ( these are the two main I can think of too).

Babar needs to get back into form for sure, no complaints there. It is an indictment as to how far he has fallen that from being compared with the likes of Smith, Root, Kohli, Williamson as their successors, he is now compared to a HTB like Head.

 

[DTrump]

Tests: Travis Head
Odi's: Travis Head
T20: Travis Head

Screw numbers. Seen these two bat over the last 3-4 years??. There is only win answer. Look at what he did in the last 2 tests. That's ATG stuff (not calling him an ATG btw). Head wins matches when he comes off.

Babar more consistent, puts a greater price on his wicket, blah blah blah, but he has never taken the next step. Just a useful accumulator in Odi cricket.

Less said about his T20 and test exploits, the better.

 

[Ab Fan]

Considering that Head's only 100 outside of Aus is vs Shardul Thakur in England, I don't think we should be qualifying Babar's 100s in neutral venues. For me, Head cannot live off one innings in 41 tries forever and hide behind his strong team at home --> if he is really impactful, let's see it away from home. Babar has a lot of improve as well and Insha'Allah he will.
I take it you also agree with my Jamieson and Ashwin points?

Regardless I am glad Head's stats are exposed and the HTB record is there for all to see, regardless of opinions on Babar.

Just wondering why are you mentioning vs Shardul Thakur? That Indian attack also had Shami, Siraj and Umesh. Shami and Siraj are top 2 bowlers in case Bumrah is absent.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Just wondering why are you mentioning vs Shardul Thakur? That Indian attack also had Shami, Siraj and Umesh. Shami and Siraj are top 2 bowlers in case Bumrah is absent.

Again, no matter how much you want to glorify one innings, that is his ONLY innings of note outside of Aus - 41 innings and this HTB averages 32. As soon as he has to face indian bowlers in India or English bowlers in England, the so-called match winner disappears.

Still waiting for your answer on Jamieson and Ashwin.

 

[DTrump]

Look at some of the innings Head has played in the last few years. Babar cannot do that in a million years.

Hobart (2022): 101 off 113 coming in at 12/3
Brisbane (2022): 92 off 96 coming in at 27/3. Against Nortje and Rabada on the worst batting wicket in Australia in 30 years.

His 3 test hundreds in 2024 have all been other worldly. He is averaging 47 at a Strike Rate of 80 in the last 4 years.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Look at some of the innings Head has played in the last few years. Babar cannot do that in a million years.

Hobart (2022): 101 off 113 coming in at 12/3
Brisbane (2022): 92 off 96 coming in at 27/3. Against Nortje and Rabada on the worst batting wicket in Australia in 30 years.

His 3 test hundreds in 2024 have all been other worldly. He is averaging 47 at a Strike Rate of 80 in the last 4 years.

He is a true tiger at home - then becomes a cat in the opposition's den.

Babar scored a 196 to draw a game batting out 2 days vs Australia and won a game for his side at the opposition's den in SL. Come back when Head finally scores a ton outside of his Aussie pitches in the opposition's den.

 

[DTrump]

He is a true tiger at home - then becomes a cat in the opposition's den.

Babar scored a 196 to draw a game batting out 2 days vs Australia and won a game for his side at the opposition's den in SL. Come back when Head finally scores a ton outside of his Aussie pitches in the opposition's den.

I don't need numbers to figure out who is better. Seen both of them bat and that's enough.
Just to let you know, In his last 9 overseas tests, Travis Head has scored 778 runs (Average: 45.76)

He has 2 tests in Sri Lanka and 3 in West Indies coming up.
Let's say he goes and smashes it there. You seem like a reasonable person. Will probably change your opinion then and believe that he is better.
He could average 23 in those 5 tests or 125. Won't change how i view him because we know all there is to know about him. Numbers are not relevant after a certain stage.


India are the best team Head has faced and he averages 51 against them.
Australia are the best side Azam has faced and he averages 38 against them.

 

[Ab Fan]

Again, no matter how much you want to glorify one innings, that is his ONLY innings of note outside of Aus - 41 innings and this HTB averages 32. As soon as he has to face indian bowlers in India or English bowlers in England, the so-called match winner disappears.

Still waiting for your answer on Jamieson and Ashwin.

That’s because the guy you are comparing Head to has only two such knocks himself. 1 vs 2, hardly a comparison. If Babar had 5 such hundreds, I would have rated Babar higher. Babar at the moment is a “No Track Bully”.

What is the question on Jamieson vs Ashwin? Ashwin is a veteran with 100+ tests. Jamieson has 15 tests. No comparison really.

 

[Rana]

This is 2012 under-19 world cup stats. Head has come a longway since then.But in terms of strike rate Babar was pathetic.

Player	Mat	Runs	Ave	SR
Anamul Haque (BD19)	6	365	60.83	85.08
Babar Azam (PAK19)	6	287	57.40	65.52
Javed Ahmadi (AFG19)	6	285	47.50	104.39
Q de Kock (SA19)	6	284	47.33	102.52
CJ Bowes (SA19)	6	283	47.16	75.26
WG Bosisto (AUS19)	6	276	276.00	55.75
Litton Das (BD19)	6	262	52.40	61.5
UBT Chand (IND19)	6	246	49.20	75
BT Foakes (ENG19)	6	234	39.00	92.49
RR O'Donnell (NZ19)	6	232	38.66	59.79
RE McLean (SCO19)	6	227	37.83	59.26
TB de Bruyn (SA19)	6	221	44.20	93.64
KC Brathwaite (WI19)	6	213	53.25	55.03
CN Kent (PNG19)	6	205	41.00	71.67
Najibullah Zadran (AFG19)	6	204	34.00	96.68
RP Burl (ZIM19)	6	201	33.50	85.16
Mohammad Nawaz (PAK19)	6	199	49.75	100
TE Kane (IRE19)	6	197	49.25	61.56
CT Bancroft (AUS19)	5	196	39.20	62.82
Afsar Zazai (AFG19)	6	193	38.60	81.09
DS Weerakkody (SL19)	6	189	63.00	94.02
AJADDLA Jayasinghe (SL19)	6	183	36.60	72.04
SK Patel (IND19)	6	178	59.33	64.25
SKW Wood (ENG19)	6	177	35.40	84.28
P Chopra (IND19)	6	172	28.66	58.9
TM Head (AUS19)	6	172	34.40	88.2

Liton Das as well

 

[mominsaigol]

This is 2012 under-19 world cup stats. Head has come a longway since then.But in terms of strike rate Babar was pathetic.

Player	Mat	Runs	Ave	SR
Anamul Haque (BD19)	6	365	60.83	85.08
Babar Azam (PAK19)	6	287	57.40	65.52
Javed Ahmadi (AFG19)	6	285	47.50	104.39
Q de Kock (SA19)	6	284	47.33	102.52
CJ Bowes (SA19)	6	283	47.16	75.26
WG Bosisto (AUS19)	6	276	276.00	55.75
Litton Das (BD19)	6	262	52.40	61.5
UBT Chand (IND19)	6	246	49.20	75
BT Foakes (ENG19)	6	234	39.00	92.49
RR O'Donnell (NZ19)	6	232	38.66	59.79
RE McLean (SCO19)	6	227	37.83	59.26
TB de Bruyn (SA19)	6	221	44.20	93.64
KC Brathwaite (WI19)	6	213	53.25	55.03
CN Kent (PNG19)	6	205	41.00	71.67
Najibullah Zadran (AFG19)	6	204	34.00	96.68
RP Burl (ZIM19)	6	201	33.50	85.16
Mohammad Nawaz (PAK19)	6	199	49.75	100
TE Kane (IRE19)	6	197	49.25	61.56
CT Bancroft (AUS19)	5	196	39.20	62.82
Afsar Zazai (AFG19)	6	193	38.60	81.09
DS Weerakkody (SL19)	6	189	63.00	94.02
AJADDLA Jayasinghe (SL19)	6	183	36.60	72.04
SK Patel (IND19)	6	178	59.33	64.25
SKW Wood (ENG19)	6	177	35.40	84.28
P Chopra (IND19)	6	172	28.66	58.9
TM Head (AUS19)	6	172	34.40	88.2

Liton Das as well

So the greatest pakistani talent to ever grace the modern era batted at a sr of 65 in his under 19 days? Hahaha

 

[Fanboy375]

That’s because the guy you are comparing Head to has only two such knocks himself. 1 vs 2, hardly a comparison. If Babar had 5 such hundreds, I would have rated Babar higher. Babar at the moment is a “No Track Bully”.

What is the question on Jamieson vs Ashwin? Ashwin is a veteran with 100+ tests. Jamieson has 15 tests. No comparison really.

But problem is Head played few matches.Like Shane Bond case he is difficult to scale.Head can be considered better against some team like Pak despite Ind being stronger team so scoring against Pak should be easy.But Head didn't so far.We have to wait to see if he an Ind basher or all top team basher

 

[khyberlion]

Doesnt mean he won the wc himself. Performances that qualify a team for the knockouts are just as important as those in the knockouts

His innings in the final was the only reason they won. They were 3 down fairly quickly. Off course you win a tournament as a team but I am talking about the final.

 

[Mamoon]

Babar is better for a weak batting lineup because he is a more orthodox, reliable batsman who can do a better job of holding things together.

Head is better for a stronger lineup because he is more flamboyant, takes a lot of risks but can take the game away from the opposition on his day.

I wouldn’t swap Babar and Head for Pakistan but Australia wouldn’t swap them either. They are both vital for their respective teams.

 

[Katwalindian]

Except that Most non minnows that Babar faced were c side NZ, C side aus and c side sa.

C side aus took place in 2019, C side NZ in 2023 and 2024, C side sa in 2021

Babar scored hundreds against sa and eng in their home which includes rabada, ngidi, Nortje, mark wood, jofra archer etc so hardly c side. In 2021 England I think due to covid England played young side.

 

[Katwalindian]

Babar is better for a weak batting lineup because he is a more orthodox, reliable batsman who can do a better job of holding things together.

Head is better for a stronger lineup because he is more flamboyant, takes a lot of risks but can take the game away from the opposition on his day.

I wouldn’t swap Babar and Head for Pakistan but Australia wouldn’t swap them either. They are both vital for their respective teams.

But Babar is miles better than him in odis.

 

[Katwalindian]

In odis sa in 2021 was full side. In t20s it was c side. in 2019 england odi series was also full side. Plus c side nz didnt matter because he always enjoyed playing the likes of boult and southee. In 2021 eng odi he also scored 158 which includes saqib mahmood, Overton, brydon carse and stokes so hardly c side.

Except that Most non minnows that Babar faced were c side NZ, C side aus and c side sa.

C side aus took place in 2019, C side NZ in 2023 and 2024, C side sa in 2021

 

[DTrump]

Babar is better for a weak batting lineup because he is a more orthodox, reliable batsman who can do a better job of holding things together.

Head is better for a stronger lineup because he is more flamboyant, takes a lot of risks but can take the game away from the opposition on his day.

I wouldn’t swap Babar and Head for Pakistan but Australia wouldn’t swap them either. They are both vital for their respective teams.

Agreed. Head seems to be breaking new ground in this series though. The rest of his batting line-up are averaging 19 in this series. This is an all time carry job from him. To bat the way he does and then producing such numbers is very special.


He is pulling away from everyone in the game right now.

 

[Katwalindian]

In odis sa in 2021 was full side. In t20s it was c side. in 2019 england odi series was also full side. Plus c side nz didnt matter because he always enjoyed playing the likes of boult and southee. In 2021 eng odi he also scored 158 which includes saqib mahmood, Overton, brydon carse and stokes so hardly c side.

I dare and challenge any Head fanboy/fangirl to discuss his Test HTB stats. Dum hei tou aao!

no one will come because they only want to bash batsman with 58 average in odis. cept that Most non minnows that Babar faced were c side NZ, C side aus and c side sa.

C side aus took place in 2019, C side NZ in 2023 and 2024, C side sa in 2021

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

I don't need numbers to figure out who is better. Seen both of them bat and that's enough.
Just to let you know, In his last 9 overseas tests, Travis Head has scored 778 runs (Average: 45.76)

He has 2 tests in Sri Lanka and 3 in West Indies coming up.
Let's say he goes and smashes it there. You seem like a reasonable person. Will probably change your opinion then and believe that he is better.
He could average 23 in those 5 tests or 125. Won't change how i view him because we know all there is to know about him. Numbers are not relevant after a certain stage.


India are the best team Head has faced and he averages 51 against them.
Australia are the best side Azam has faced and he averages 38 against them.

You seem reasonable too and I agree with the gist that in general numbers don't matter after a point but for me Head hasn't reached that stage yet. 9 hundreds, 8 in Aus and 0 away from home for me is not that stage. If he is at 15 hundreds with 10 in Aus and 5 outside then ok I can see that argument. Coming few months will tell us more.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

That’s because the guy you are comparing Head to has only two such knocks himself. 1 vs 2, hardly a comparison. If Babar had 5 such hundreds, I would have rated Babar higher. Babar at the moment is a “No Track Bully”.

What is the question on Jamieson vs Ashwin? Ashwin is a veteran with 100+ tests. Jamieson has 15 tests. No comparison really.

If you're counting one for Head, then it is 3 for Babar. At the moment Head has done jack in the den of the opposition - when he does we can continue this convo.

I asked not about Jamieson vs Ashwin but about both of them. Some posters who have run away now what Head's away numbers are out we're denigrating Ashwin in the retirement thread but the sane Ashwin has a magnificent performance in WTC. Jameson was MOM in WTC as well, by that logic he should be rated higher than some HTB Aussies.

 

[DTrump]

You seem reasonable too and I agree with the gist that in general numbers don't matter after a point but for me Head hasn't reached that stage yet. 9 hundreds, 8 in Aus and 0 away from home for me is not that stage. If he is at 15 hundreds with 10 in Aus and 5 outside then ok I can see that argument. Coming few months will tell us more.

That's fair. You want to till there is more evidence. Fwiw, i didn't really rate Head that highly before this India series. Have come around on him.

His methods are not very secure. There is a hack-ish ness to his style of batting. But If a player continues to produce results, one has to reconsider their biases. His overseas results are mediocre but one can produce ATG performances at home too and he is doing that.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

That's fair. You want to till there is more evidence. Fwiw, i didn't really rate Head that highly before this India series. Have come around on him.

His methods are not very secure. There is a hack-ish ness to his style of batting. But If a player continues to produce results, one has to reconsider their biases. His overseas results are mediocre but one can produce ATG performances at home too and he is doing that.

Agreed about his batting style - it is my belief that this hackishness is what prevents him from getting big scores outside of Aus. But we will see in the tours to come. Don't care about current WI but very curious to see him in turning pitches in India or SL.

 

[DTrump]

Agreed about his batting style - it is my belief that this hackishness is what prevents him from getting big scores outside of Aus. But we will see in the tours to come. Don't care about current WI but very curious to see him in turning pitches in India or SL.

He did do well in India last year. 235 Runs @ 47.
Australia were smart to push him to the top of the order. That's where his path to success lies in Asia.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

He did do well in India last year. 235 Runs @ 47.
Australia were smart to push him to the top of the order. That's where his path to success lies in Asia.

He scored 90 in Mumbai second innings of last test which was a dud draw with 4 centuries...it was the deadest Indian pitch in years which allowed a hopeless Kholi to score 180. In the 5 innings outside of that he scored 145 runs @36.

Agree with the point that he needs to bat up the order in Asia. Ironically in Aus he is better off coming later when the new ball has been bunted.

 

[Mamoon]

Agreed. Head seems to be breaking new ground in this series though. The rest of his batting line-up are averaging 19 in this series. This is an all time carry job from him. To bat the way he does and then producing such numbers is very special.


He is pulling away from everyone in the game right now.

Head needs to do more across formats vs other teams. He is too much of an Indian bully.

Head vs India is an elite batsman across formats but he is barely world class vs everyone else.

 

[DTrump]

He scored 90 in Mumbai second innings of last test which was a dud draw with 4 centuries...it was the deadest Indian pitch in years which allowed a hopeless Kholi to score 180. In the 5 innings outside of that he scored 145 runs @36.

Agree with the point that he needs to bat up the order in Asia. Ironically in Aus he is better off coming later when the new ball has been bunted.

The new ball has been doing a lot more in Australia recently. More lacquer on it.

Yes. But it was his first tour and he was up against a monster attack. Indore and Delhi were spitting cobras. Gets an 8/10 from me.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Babar is better for a weak batting lineup because he is a more orthodox, reliable batsman who can do a better job of holding things together.

Head is better for a stronger lineup because he is more flamboyant, takes a lot of risks but can take the game away from the opposition on his day.

I wouldn’t swap Babar and Head for Pakistan but Australia wouldn’t swap them either. They are both vital for their respective teams.

Good post. For the same reason, even if we concede that Head is a more impactful bat, he would not be able to have the same impact with a poor Pak test side as Babar would in a very good Aussie test side.

 

[emranabbas]

Babar is better for a weak batting lineup because he is a more orthodox, reliable batsman who can do a better job of holding things together.

Finally admits it

This exactly what he is good at nothing more, nothing less. He's mainly good for holding things together, but even that he often falls short. He's not effective at scoring runs or contributing to match victories.

Hope we can put following claims to rest

"he's the best pakiatan produced"
"One of the best in the world"

And all the other bizarre claims.

@Rana @mominsaigol

 

[Mamoon]

This exactly what he is good at nothing more, nothing less. He's mainly good for holding things together, but even that he often falls short. He's not effective at scoring runs or contributing to match victories.

Hope we can put following claims to rest

"he's the best pakiatan produced"
"One of the best in the world"

And all the other bizarre claims.

@Rana @mominsaigol

Admit to what?

Babar is a world class batsman and anyone who disagrees with this assessment knows nothing about cricket.

Who told you that a classical, orthodox batsman who can hold things together cannot be world class?

People like who have lost their minds because of an overdose of T20 cricket labor under the delusions that aggressive batting is the only way to play cricket which is absolute nonsense.

Babar walks into any team in the world and is one of the best batsman Pakistan has ever produced which makes him world class.

 

[Rana]

This exactly what he is good at nothing more, nothing less. He's mainly good for holding things together, but even that he often falls short. He's not effective at scoring runs or contributing to match victories.

Hope we can put following claims to rest

"he's the best pakiatan produced"
"One of the best in the world"

And all the other bizarre claims.

@Rana @mominsaigol

Yeah it’s funny how no strong T20 league picks Babar to amp up their Batting order with solid T20 players

Babar is a weak batter who inspires a weakness into the sides he is projected as the best batter.

No strong batting line up wants to handicap themselves with a batter like Babar. Given the opportunity, he makes no top international side. This is reality.

Every side in the world would take Travis Head. This is a reality too.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Admit to what?

Babar is a world class batsman and anyone who disagrees with this assessment knows nothing about cricket.

Who told you that a classical, orthodox batsman who can hold things together cannot be world class?

People like who have lost their minds because of an overdose of T20 cricket labor under the delusions that aggressive batting is the only way to play cricket which is absolute nonsense.

Babar walks into any team in the world and is one of the best batsman Pakistan has ever produced which makes him world class.

This exactly what he is good at nothing more, nothing less. He's mainly good for holding things together, but even that he often falls short. He's not effective at scoring runs or contributing to match victories.

Hope we can put following claims to rest

"he's the best pakiatan produced"
"One of the best in the world"

And all the other bizarre claims.

@Rana @mominsaigol

If B is better than A at something it doesn't mean it is the only thing they are good at. . Life must be tough after Babar series winning 50s in SA ODIs.