England [499/9d] defeat South Africa [209,237] by an inns & 53 runs to win 3rd Test, lead series 2-1

[Manunited18]

Livingstone, Sam Hain are much better than Jason Roy or hameed

Hameed has great potential, there's a reason why he was fast tracked in to England set up, then a injury , lost of confidence, remember hes only 22

 

[Hasan123]

England are developing into a good side. I expect the big 3 to dominate cricket for the next 5/6 years.

Really sad to see South Africa in this state. It will be some pain before they rise again.

 

[Ab Fan]

But pak had much better players . Barring a few talented rookie pacers, eng don't have that much to worry about.

Azhar and asad are in their last few years. Compared to 2012, the batting line up is minnow like.

Eng have the upper hand in all departments. In fact, I am going as far as to say that eng have a very good chance to beat India in India this year

In recent few days, whenever I am posting something about England, you are quoting me and making an environment of healthy discussion. I like this. You also seem to be a huge England cricket fan.

Coming to Pakistan Vs England point, there is no doubt that England were a much superior team in the previous decade as compared to Pakistan and they have managed some excellent wins against other top sides- Australia, India and South Africa.

However, what my point is that when they were up against Pakistan, they didn't had as good a time and that too when Pakistan are not having great players.

Below are the results that England have put up Vs Pakistan in last four series:-

1-1 draw in England
2-2 draw in England
0-2 loss in UAE
0-3 loss in UAE

A total of 3-8 loss-win. This is poor for a top team like England. They were also knocked out by Pakistan in CT 2017 which was played in England, ultimately won by them. In WC 2019, they perhaps did well not to face Pakistan in Knockouts who actually won the only league match they played against England in that tournament. It seems England do well against everyone but they end up being Pakistan's punching bag.

 

[Manunited18]

In recent few days, whenever I am posting something about England, you are quoting me and making an environment of healthy discussion. I like this. You also seem to be a huge England cricket fan.

Coming to Pakistan Vs England point, there is no doubt that England were a much superior team in the previous decade as compared to Pakistan and they have managed some excellent wins against other top sides- Australia, India and South Africa.

However, what my point is that when they were up against Pakistan, they didn't had as good a time and that too when Pakistan are not having great players.

Below are the results that England have put up Vs Pakistan in last four series:-

1-1 draw in England
2-2 draw in England
0-2 loss in UAE
0-3 loss in UAE

A total of 3-8 loss-win. This is poor for a top team like England. They were also knocked out by Pakistan in CT 2017 which was played in England, ultimately won by them. In WC 2019, they perhaps did well not to face Pakistan in Knockouts who actually won the only league match they played against England in that tournament. It seems England do well against everyone but they end up being Pakistan's punching bag.

Pakistan team struggles on bouncy wickets, that's always been their Achilles heel, hence they never perform at all in Australia, the reality is there is no stand out team like the Australia team of late 90's and in the early millennium or the Windies teams of yesteryear, hence any team can really beat anyone, I don't see a outstanding team and it's proven by stats and facts

 

[Ab Fan]

Pakistan team struggles on bouncy wickets, that's always been their Achilles heel, hence they never perform at all in Australia, the reality is there is no stand out team like the Australia team of late 90's and in the early millennium or the Windies teams of yesteryear, hence any team can really beat anyone, I don't see a outstanding team and it's proven by stats and facts

Pakistan were much weaker compared to England in the previous decade, yet England were Pakistan's punching bag. That's my point.

 

[Manunited18]

Pakistan were much weaker compared to England in the previous decade, yet England were Pakistan's punching bag. That's my point.

Pakistan historically play well in England, the conditions in England don't phase em

 

[tyron_woodley]

England will always be Pakistan's bunnies. it's a bad matchup.

 

[tyron_woodley]

I would urge england to prepare flat bouncy wickets vs pakistan if they want to beat them.

 

[tyron_woodley]

South Africa beat aus in aus the same year eng won in south Africa
India will win, but if there is any team with a chance of beating india , its england.

Eng have the spinners and bang it in pacers for Indian pitches and have a small chance of out doing Indian batsman, however small that chance is

. Root and stokes play spin really well, pope is shaping to be engs main batsman and might be by the time of the tour.
Also have a feeling burns and Sibley will survive bumrah.
Shami and the spinners are England batsmens main obstacles.

bumrah of odi is nothing compared to bumrah of test. He is a real test freak. india won't prepare turners. it will low bouncy flat ones where india are just far too dominant.
turners are always 50 50 even for a team as good as india.

 

[andy0204]

We did both! Once upon a time.

Better times!

Both teams were weak as compared to now.

 

[andy0204]

South Africa beat aus in aus the same year eng won in south Africa
India will win, but if there is any team with a chance of beating india , its england.

Eng have the spinners and bang it in pacers for Indian pitches and have a small chance of out doing Indian batsman, however small that chance is

. Root and stokes play spin really well, pope is shaping to be engs main batsman and might be by the time of the tour.
Also have a feeling burns and Sibley will survive bumrah.
Shami and the spinners are England batsmens main obstacles.

It's not a big achievement that South Africa defeated Australia in Australia,they constantly beat each other in their own conditions,For eg 2009 Australia defeated South Africa in South Africa and that South Africa was much stronger than 2016 South Africa, 2009 Australia were decent not great.
The thing is the conditions are similar for both the countries.
Sure they will beat India in India but not next year maybe next time they tour.

 

[tyron_woodley]

It's not a big achievement that South Africa defeated Australia in Australia,they constantly beat each other in their own conditions,For eg 2009 Australia defeated South Africa in South Africa and that South Africa was much stronger than 2016 South Africa, 2009 Australia were decent not great.
The thing is the conditions are similar for both the countries.
Sure they will beat India in India but not next year maybe next time they tour.

what? who will beat india in India? nobody.

They have a better chance of beating australia in australia. Just win the toss and bat first. Some ridiculous record of winning streaks for teams that bat first in australia. Good teams not for **** teams like the ones that toured recently to australia.

 

[tyron_woodley]

not only does England have to deal with spinners alone now. India's pace attack is probably the best in the world so it's going to be even harder when shami and bumrah are launching bouncer bombs on your head. I see no chances whatsoever unless india are stupid enough to prepare rank turners.

 

[andy0204]

what? who will beat india in India? nobody.

They have a better chance of beating australia in australia. Just win the toss and bat first. Some ridiculous record of winning streaks for teams that bat first in australia. Good teams not for **** teams like the ones that toured recently to australia.

Read what I said,England have a chance to beat India in India in future but not now.

 

[Robert]

I would urge england to prepare flat bouncy wickets vs pakistan if they want to beat them.

Flat bouncy? Isn’t that oxymoronic?

You can’t really make wickets to order in England, they will be slow seamers. OT and Oval take a bit of spin later on. Same every year.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Flat bouncy? Isn’t that oxymoronic?

You can’t really make wickets to order in England, they will be slow seamers. OT and Oval take a bit of spin later on. Same every year.

flat wickets can be both bouncy or low bouncy.
Asustrlai and south africa prepare flat wickets but they are bouncy due to the artificial turf. India have low bouncy wickets.

yea but pakistan excel in all those conditions. they csnt play bounce or pace in general If their lives depended on it.

 

[Robert]

flat wickets can be both bouncy or low bouncy.
Asustrlai and south africa prepare flat wickets but they are bouncy due to the artificial turf. India have low bouncy wickets.

yea but pakistan excel in all those conditions. they csnt play bounce or pace in general If their lives depended on it.

Hmm, to me a flat wicket has no bounce, do you mean a non-seaming wicket with bounce?

 

[Manunited18]

flat wickets can be both bouncy or low bouncy.
Asustrlai and south africa prepare flat wickets but they are bouncy due to the artificial turf. India have low bouncy wickets.

yea but pakistan excel in all those conditions. they csnt play bounce or pace in general If their lives depended on it.

Pakistan were lucky on a few times, also by memory over the last few times pakistan came here the summer was good weather, hence wickets were good batting tracks, when England and india played in 2018 most of the tests Come down to who took the big moments, and every situation England won the big moments comprehensively

 

[Manunited18]

I would urge england to prepare flat bouncy wickets vs pakistan if they want to beat them.

It's nothing to do with preparing wickets, the wickets in England are what real test cricket is about, you can have a slow seamer, old Trafford takes spin, oval in general a outstanding wickets for all comers, headingly in general is determined on the weather above, lords a good batting track, all in all the wickets in engl are by far the best in the world, only change I would recommend in county cricket is bring in the kucoobura ball for county cricket and play first class games June to September and lesser games, this will no doubt release the outstanding young talent which does get held back playing county games in April does not tell the real story

 

[Robert]

Pakistan were lucky on a few times, also by memory over the last few times pakistan came here the summer was good weather, hence wickets were good batting tracks, when England and india played in 2018 most of the tests Come down to who took the big moments, and every situation England won the big moments comprehensively

Yeah.

Last time Pakistan were here Yasir got going in the first test but was latterly worked out a bit. After that I thought England would win the series 3-1 but Younis had one last big performance in him which he saved for the fourth test.

Woakes had a good series, quicker than Broad and even Finn.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Pakistan were lucky on a few times, also by memory over the last few times pakistan came here the summer was good weather, hence wickets were good batting tracks, when England and india played in 2018 most of the tests Come down to who took the big moments, and every situation England won the big moments comprehensively

englsnd also won cause of the toss too.

 

[Manunited18]

englsnd also won cause of the toss too.

Lol, most times toss is a factor, but in the England v India series it was all about who could grab the big moments, and as you know the rest is history

 

[Manunited18]

Yeah.

Last time Pakistan were here Yasir got going in the first test but was latterly worked out a bit. After that I thought England would win the series 3-1 but Younis had one last big performance in him which he saved for the fourth test.

Woakes had a good series, quicker than Broad and even Finn.

Finns confidence was shot by then

 

[tyron_woodley]

Lol, most times toss is a factor, but in the England v India series it was all about who could grab the big moments, and as you know the rest is history

yes because they won the toss. india could have stil won though. Poor player selection cost them.

had india won the tosses the score line could have been 4-1 in reverse. It is what it is. Poor display by india to lose at the end.