India end Day 4 in a strong position at 52/1 chasing 209 to win the 1st Test against England

[asifp]

India really does benefit that their players play all the T20 cricket in 8 weeks and done. They can focus on one format at a time.

England is a a joke right now with test, first class, 100, one day and T20 all overlapping each other. No wonder their test team is a disaster.

 

[Devadwal]

Ooh no. Rain forecast is in entire playing hour on last day .

 

[globalcitizen]

Kohli will perform this innings and India will win this game. it won't be easy but they will prevail or weather will.

 

[globalcitizen]

Just looking at the highlights it seems like every england batsmen have played at a very good strike rate. So pitch might have eased out a lot.
Even if india carry on at same strike rate as now they should score these runs by tea.

 

[PakLFC]

India should win the first test after a good fight. Batting last means the pressure of chasing runs can do strange things to batsmen. England are not out of this one although India for sure are favourites. England need up to four wickets in the first session. Game on.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

I am saying this with a sad and heavy heart.. But I have no hope from our batting line up and see and imminent collapse.
It is the reverse now, Batting is bad and bowling is good. Not a balanced team India is at the moment.

 

[PakLFC]

I am saying this with a sad and heavy heart.. But I have no hope from our batting line up and see and imminent collapse.
It is the reverse now, Batting is bad and bowling is good. Not a balanced team India is at the moment.

What you talking about?. You've still got Kohli to come in then the current two are decent as well. It is not as if you are chasing 400 or something for goodness sake.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

If only we could produce such a performance in the WTC Final. It hurts.

NZ are a much stronger side in these conditions.

 

[Devadwal]

First session weather looks good now ,hope we get 2 session of play .thats enough for any results

 

[globalcitizen]

What you talking about?. You've still got Kohli to come in then the current two are decent as well. It is not as if you are chasing 400 or something for goodness sake.

Some are just not positive in life and they just assume others are the same. There is nothing yet to suggest india will collapse. Yes test cricket is supposed to be hard but it will be a win eventually for india

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Some are just not positive in life and they just assume others are the same. There is nothing yet to suggest india will collapse. Yes test cricket is supposed to be hard but it will be a win eventually for india

Was there anything on day 6 of WTC to suggest that we"ll lose the match, I am quite sure that we can collapse even if we are 100-1 just look at the last innings itself our lower order and tail bailed us out, which they won't be able to do in a high pressure chase.

 

[jnaveen1980]

NZ are a much stronger side in these conditions.

Several reasons. This is NZ's ATG side with a fantastic captain leading them. They were already playing Tests prior to India series. We were led by an inept captain who picked a hopeless combination. Leaving out Siraj, picking two spinners.vMost important missing factor was Bumrah's effectiveness. He struggled even against tailenders.

 

[globalcitizen]

Was there anything on day 6 of WTC to suggest that we"ll lose the match, I am quite sure that we can collapse even if we are 100-1 just look at the last innings itself our lower order and tail bailed us out, which they won't be able to do in a high pressure chase.

It's high time india get over the wtc finals and stop sulking about it. At no time india looked like winning. They conceded a lead in first innings.NZ were better team for condition's.
On final day they were trailing by 30 plus runs with 8 wickets remaining and were under pressure of setting a score. Only probable results were draw or NZ win.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Several reasons. This is NZ's ATG side with a fantastic captain leading them. They were already playing Tests prior to India series. We were led by an inept captain who picked a hopeless combination. Leaving out Siraj, picking two spinners.vMost important missing factor was Bumrah's effectiveness. He struggled even against tailenders.

I agree. 2 spinners in SENA is a very dumb decision. But with our batting woes, I'm not sure any combination could have beaten New zealamd. They had just beaten England in England and they are comfortably the best side in swinging/seaming conditions.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I agree. 2 spinners in SENA is a very dumb decision. But with our batting woes, I'm not sure any combination could have beaten New zealamd. They had just beaten England in England and they are comfortably the best side in swinging/seaming conditions.

Bhai we squandered a lead of 96 with 4 pacers....

Still think we shouldnt go with 3+2 combo?

Forget batting woes mate....explain how the 4 pacers gave up an easy match winning lead?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

And mind you this English batting up is weak as heck
...

 

[street cricketer]

It's high time india get over the wtc finals and stop sulking about it. At no time india looked like winning. They conceded a lead in first innings.NZ were better team for condition's.
On final day they were trailing by 30 plus runs with 8 wickets remaining and were under pressure of setting a score. Only probable results were draw or NZ win.

Most Indian fans who follow the Indian test team particularly closely know why people are nervous about their chances.

India were chasing sub 200 scores in Edgbaston in 2018, Cape Town in 2017 and were bowled out for a paltry total under similar cloudy conditions with imminent rain. In fact, before we had to chase 200, there had been overnight rain in Cape Town which caused a Saffer collapse and also caused a collapse for our team.

And that's not just it. We failed to chase targets around 250 in Southampton in 2018 and Centurion in 2017. Our batsmen are simply not known for chasing totals in the 4th innings in overseas conditions, which is why what happened at the Gabba was an absolute miracle.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Most Indian fans who follow the Indian test team particularly closely know why people are nervous about their chances.

India were chasing sub 200 scores in Edgbaston in 2018, Cape Town in 2017 and were bowled out for a paltry total under similar cloudy conditions with imminent rain. In fact, before we had to chase 200, there had been overnight rain in Cape Town which caused a Saffer collapse and also caused a collapse for our team.

And that's not just it. We failed to chase targets around 250 in Southampton in 2018 and Centurion in 2017. Our batsmen are simply not known for chasing totals in the 4th innings in overseas conditions, which is why what happened at the Gabba was an absolute miracle.

Gabba was a miracle but it wasnt like it came out of nowhere.

Our mindset in that series was something else.

Everyone started talking about how it doesnt matter which newbie comes on...they are gonna fight like theor life depends upon it.

 

[Third Man]

Bhai we squandered a lead of 96 with 4 pacers....

Still think we shouldnt go with 3+2 combo?

Forget batting woes mate....explain how the 4 pacers gave up an easy match winning lead?

4 paces gave up the lead because the pitch had become quite easy. A better batting team would've scored somewhere around 400 here. Indian pace bowling is good, but no bowling side can skittle teams out for sub 200 scores all the time.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Bhai we squandered a lead of 96 with 4 pacers....

Still think we shouldnt go with 3+2 combo?

Forget batting woes mate....explain how the 4 pacers gave up an easy match winning lead?

We got a lead just because we went with four pacers. There is no help for spinners.
As good as Ashwin is he can't take the pitch out of the equation, never has never will.

According to me this exactly should be our bowling attack in SENA:
4 pacers(one of 'em thakur)
And one of Jadeja or Ashwin (probably Jadeja)

 

[street cricketer]

Gabba was a miracle but it was like it came out of nowhere.

Our mindset in that series was something else.

Everyone started talking about how it doesnt matter which newbie comes on...they are gonna fight like theor life depends upon it.

That entire series was a fairytale series. It was like we were meant to win that series while battling setback after setback. I thought it only happens in the films.

I mean even after not having Kohli and Ishant, losing Shami, Umesh, Bumrah and even Ashwin, even after having to field a third string bowling line up, we still lost the toss and it was not just that. A few overs into the first innings, one of the pacers in Saini broke down and we basically had to bowl handicapped by one player. And we still won. It was something that happens once in a lifetime and it's hard to replicate that again.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

We got a lead just because we went with four pacers. There is no help for spinners.
As good as Ashwin is he can't take the pitch out of the equation, never has never will.

According to me this exactly should be our bowling attack in SENA:
4 pacers(one of 'em thakur)
And one of Jadeja or Ashwin (probably Jadeja)

I agree we got the lead because we went with 4 pacers.

So now that we got the lead, they could have closed it out in 2nd innings.

Why didn't we do it?

The answer lies in this comment:

4 paces gave up the lead because the pitch had become quite easy. A better batting team would've scored somewhere around 400 here. Indian pace bowling is good, but no bowling side can skittle teams out for sub 200 scores all the time.

Let's ignore batting for a moment and discuss just bowling.....

4 bowlers will help you more when conditions assist but it will also prevent you from using the pitch better once it slows down.

Its not about winning battles comprehensively but about winning the war.

Take our spinners in WTC.

It's a common misconception that we have 2 spinners.

In reality, there is 1 batsman and 1 spinner. The batsman is a supporting spinner who comes into play when pitch assists.

If you forget Jaddu is a spinner and play him like a proper bat (average of 60 in the last few years), all the problems are solved.

It's not like we are picking 2 dunces with the bat. Moreover, that backs our strength.

-----

Now coming back to our batting, yes they should have scored 400.

Had they done it, it would have solved all our problems.

But hey...had the done the same in WTC finals...we would have been talking about how our spinners rolled them over in 4th innings right now.

It goes both ways.

Now that we know they don't score...we gotta account for that.

I actually felt this XI was logical for this pitch....

Just that what's right logically doesn't necessarily mean that's whats needed.

There are intangibles that we have to consider and it's a tricky thing to do no doubt.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

That entire series was a fairytale series. It was like we were meant to win that series while battling setback after setback. I thought it only happens in the films.

I mean even after not having Kohli and Ishant, losing Shami, Umesh, Bumrah and even Ashwin, even after having to field a third string bowling line up, we still lost the toss and it was not just that. A few overs into the first innings, one of the pacers in Saini broke down and we basically had to bowl handicapped by one player. And we still won. It was something that happens once in a lifetime and it's hard to replicate that again.

Haha yeah.

It was like seeing a sports movie come true.

Just no words really.

Sooooo many life lessons to be gleaned from that series.

The memories of this series will stay with us till we die.

I am smiling just thinking about it.

 

[globalcitizen]

Most Indian fans who follow the Indian test team particularly closely know why people are nervous about their chances.

India were chasing sub 200 scores in Edgbaston in 2018, Cape Town in 2017 and were bowled out for a paltry total under similar cloudy conditions with imminent rain. In fact, before we had to chase 200, there had been overnight rain in Cape Town which caused a Saffer collapse and also caused a collapse for our team.

And that's not just it. We failed to chase targets around 250 in Southampton in 2018 and Centurion in 2017. Our batsmen are simply not known for chasing totals in the 4th innings in overseas conditions, which is why what happened at the Gabba was an absolute miracle.

This is not that sort of a pitch. Yesterday all their batters scored at high strike rates and were driving on the front foot. Pitch holds no demons. Of course if they bat poorly even 150 is enough for opposition.

 

[street cricketer]

This is not that sort of a pitch. Yesterday all their batters scored at high strike rates and were driving on the front foot. Pitch holds no demons. Of course if they bat poorly even 150 is enough for opposition.

Mostly in England, it's not so much about the pitch but the overhead conditions and Trent Bridge is known as a venue where the most amount of swing is available in England.

I agree the pitch is benign but if the low dark clouds loom above, the ball is going to move all over the place.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Bhai we squandered a lead of 96 with 4 pacers....

Still think we shouldnt go with 3+2 combo?

Forget batting woes mate....explain how the 4 pacers gave up an easy match winning lead?

No guarantee that playing Ash would not have made his better. In fact, I'd argue it would be worse. 4 seamers is the only reason we blasted them out for 183. Had we played 2 spinners, England would have made 250 + in the 1st innings and we would have lost this comfortably. Cricviz data shows that batting got easier as the days progressed and Engkand capitalised on that and Root played superbly. Jadeja has figures of 0/50 in this match
. What is the guarantee that Ash would have gone any better? Our seam attack is not the best and hopefully we can unearth better quicks or hope the likes of siraj get better but the combination in and of itself is not wrong.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

No guarantee that playing Ash would not have made his better. In fact, I'd argue it would be worse. 4 seamers is the only reason we blasted them out for 183. Had we played 2 spinners, England would have made 250 + in the 1st innings and we would have lost this comfortably. Cricviz data shows that batting got easier as the days progressed and Engkand capitalised on that and Root played superbly. Jadeja has figures of 0/50 in this match
. What is the guarantee that Ash would have gone any better? Our seam attack is not the best and hopefully we can unearth better quicks or hope the likes of siraj get better but the combination in and of itself is not wrong.

Ok there is a LOT to unpack here.

I will try to do it as precisely as I can.

First this ain't about Ash per se. But a spinner. Ash or not, the views remain same.

But that's besides the point.

No guarantee that playing Ash would not have made his better. In fact, I'd argue it would be worse. 4 seamers is the only reason we blasted them out for 183.

Yes there are NO guarantees in life.

But we can look at past data.

In WTC, our 3 pacers couldn't get wickets and things were looking really bad and it was Ash who broke through during NZ first innings.

Even in 2nd innings, our pacers barely did zilch.

Ash broke through thrice. Williamson escaped with a hopeful DRS review as he admitted later on.

All on a pace friendly pitch.

Same way, there was NO guarantee Ash would deliver us the Melbourne win on Day 1.

Yet it happened.

There was NO guarantee that we would bundle out Aus for 300 in Sydney on a 500 track.

Ash failed but Jaddu delivered it for India.

Had we played 2 spinners, England would have made 250 + in the 1st innings and we would have lost this comfortably.

Maybe.

May not be.

Past data strongly disagrees with it.

Cricviz data shows that batting got easier as the days progressed and Engkand capitalised on that and Root played superbly.

EXACTLY.

That's the point.

Pitches ease out and it's not all the same.

4 pacers on day 1 need not mean it will work out on Day 3 or Day 5.

It's about planning for the WHOLE test.

Jadeja has figures of 0/50 in this match

What were Jadeja's figures in Melbourne and WTC finals?

He didn't pick any wickets.

But we saw what Ash did.

What is the guarantee that Ash would have gone any better?

Again no guarantees.

But past data.

Our seam attack is not the best and hopefully we can unearth better quicks or hope the likes of siraj get better but the combination in and of itself is not wrong.

Hopefully we do.

Combination is not wrong per se.

It just leaves you with more holes unless the pitch is a Joberg 2018.

If Jaddu gets back to his old bowling form, then combination will work better.