Joe Root versus Ricky Ponting versus Kumar Sangakkara in Tests

[Ab Fan]

I believe Joe Root with 12000+ test runs and average of 50 has done enough to go down as an all time great in Test cricket. Hence, it is quite fair to pit him up against other all time greats of the game.

While I believe he is not yet in the league of Steve Smith, Sachin Tendulkar and Brian Lara in Test cricket due to his inability to convert fifties into tons consistently and below par performance in Australia, he has done enough to be compared with other legends of the game, leading me to this comparison thread.

Three legends of Test cricket, each with a remarkable legacy—Joe Root, Ricky Ponting, and Kumar Sangakkara. Who stands out as the ultimate batsman in the purest form of the game? Let's dive into their records, styles, and match-winning performances to determine who truly reigns supreme in Test cricket!"

Joe Root
Matches - 144
Runs-12,131
Average- 50.34

Ricky Ponting (Australia)
Matches- 168
Runs- 13,378
Average- 51.85

Kumar Sangakkara (Sri Lanka)
Matches- 134
Runs- 12,400
Average- 57.40

 

[sweep_shot]

Root wins this one.

Root is less than 4000 runs away from surpassing Tendulkar.

 

[Ab Fan]

Root wins this one.

Root is less than 4000 runs away from surpassing Tendulkar.

He will surpass Ponting and Sangakkara in a flash but does he have a bigger legacy than both already or will have one by the time he retires?

 

[BouncerGuy]

Root is a great player but he played in a relatively easier era. These types of comparison s can never be justified because of differences in conditions, eras, rules etc.

All of these guys are great players and each one is unique in his own way.

 

[Hikaru]

Root for me if we are talking Test Cricket specifically. And no, he didn't have an easier era, scoring runs in Test Cricket has been considerably harder than 2000s in the last decade.

 

[Hitman]

I can merely laugh at people rating Root ahead of Ponting.

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

Ponting is greater than both Sangakkara and Root. He is in league with Tendulkar and Lara.
Root is better than Sangakkara in my opinion..
Ponting >>>>>Root>Sangakkara

 

[Mamoon]

I can merely laugh at people rating Root ahead of Ponting.

He is a much better Test batsman than Ponting in some aspects of the game, but a much worse Test batsman in some aspects too.

For example, Ponting was a clown in India vs Kumble and Harbhajan, and he would have been an even bigger clown vs Ashwin and Jadeja on the post 2012 Indian pitches.

Root has played some great knocks in India, and there is no way Ponting outperforms Root on Asian tracks if they were to bat together.

Similarly, Root is a much better batsman against lateral movement. Root is one of the best ever against swing bowling.

On the other hand, Ponting was far better vs genuine pace and on bouncy tracks.

Remember, this is a Test-only comparison. Ponting is streets ahead when you take white ball cricket into consideration, but a Test-only comparison is not a laughing matter by any means and who you choose would greatly depend on the conditions, team composition etc.

 

[Mamoon]

Root is a great player but he played in a relatively easier era. These types of comparison s can never be justified because of differences in conditions, eras, rules etc.

All of these guys are great players and each one is unique in his own way.

Test cricket rules have not changed in any way. It is still played the way it has been played for the last 30-40 years and is one of the very few constants in cricket.

In addition, the last 15 years has been one of the toughest in Test cricket history because the conditions have not been easy for batting.

 

[sindhiboy]

Australian and Indian pitches in the 2000s were flat highways.
There has been what some analysts call "a pace bowling pandemic" since the 2018, where seamers have had alot of success.

So can't say its been an easier period for batting, although it could be argued the quality bowlers was higher.

 

[Ab Fan]

He is a much better Test batsman than Ponting in some aspects of the game, but a much worse Test batsman in some aspects too.

For example, Ponting was a clown in India vs Kumble and Harbhajan, and he would have been an even bigger clown vs Ashwin and Jadeja on the post 2012 Indian pitches.

Root has played some great knocks in India, and there is no way Ponting outperforms Root on Asian tracks if they were to bat together.

Similarly, Root is a much better batsman against lateral movement. Root is one of the best ever against swing bowling.

On the other hand, Ponting was far better vs genuine pace and on bouncy tracks.

Remember, this is a Test-only comparison. Ponting is streets ahead when you take white ball cricket into consideration, but a Test-only comparison is not a laughing matter by any means and who you choose would greatly depend on the conditions, team composition etc.

Vs spin - Root
Vs swing/seam - Root
Vs pace/bounce - Ponting
Flat decks - Ponting

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I can merely laugh at people rating Root ahead of Ponting.

I rate Ponting ahead of Root too but it's close, you sound like a nostalgia merchant here, there is nothing laughable in this comparison. Ponting played in easily the most flattest pitches era where the stats of most players were inflated.

 

[Ab Fan]

Root with 34 test tons now.

100 more runs in test cricket and he will go past Sangakkara and Cook in runs tally. Averaging 51 in Test cricket.

 

[Ab Fan]

@kron , Ponting was poor in India, averaging 26.

Root has been decent in Australia atleast with 9 fifties and average of 35.

 

[sweep_shot]

@kron , Ponting was poor in India, averaging 26.

Root has been decent in Australia atleast with 9 fifties and average of 35.

You have to look at overall records and overall impacts. Not just performance in one region.

 

[Ab Fan]

You have to look at overall records and overall impacts. Not just performance in one region.

Overall record is very similar. The notable difference between them is that Ponting played in a team where everyone in top 6-7 averaged above 40. Root plays in a team where no one averages above 40( discounting Brooks who is still new). So, the one with better team will win a lot more games than the one with a pretty average team.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Root is a fantastic player but I still rate Ponting higher - with Lara and Tendulkar being yet another level higher.

Undoubtedly he is one of England’ s finest Test players but (and it is a big “but”) English players are defined by English fans in terms of their performances against Australia, espefically in Australia.

Here Root stands below others who are in the league of being regarded as greats of English cricket — Hobbs, Hanmmond, Hutton, Pieterson.

You have to do it in Australia if you are n Englishman — Root knows this and he has mentioned it himself.

 

[ElRaja]

peak ponting was a beast, fewer better players of pace on the back foot, these things go beyond stats, because bowlers just didnt really bowl short to him, but even then he was picking fast bowlers off a length in front of square. his stats, like most greats got ruined cos he stayed on a bit long, but from 25 to early 30s his pulls and hooks were freakishly consistent.

root will go down as an ATG due to the sheer weight of runs hes scored, and his proficiency against spin for a non asian batsmen, but he needs to win an ashes in aus to cement his position as the undisputed in the eng pantheon of greats IMO.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It's difficult to work out who is the better between these three but it's safe to say they are all better than Sachin

 

[dravidthewall]

Ponting>Root>Sangakara

 

[RexRex]

It's difficult to work out who is the better between these three but it's safe to say they are all better than Sachin

Your relentless campaign against SRT's legacy is admirable lol.

 

[Ab Fan]

It's difficult to work out who is the better between these three but it's safe to say they are all better than Sachin

The thread is not about Sachin. I understand you are Pakistani so can't resist but still give it a try. Let's keep this discussion to the the players mentioned in the OP.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The thread is not about Sachin. I understand you are Pakistani so can't resist but still give it a try. Let's keep this discussion to the the players mentioned in the OP.

Please then edit your post in the OP where you mention Sachin name.

My post is response to the argument you are trying to present.

You can't make a blanket statement about these players not being in the league of Sachin, expect us to accept the highly biased premise you have presented as fact, and then resort to personal digs regarding nationality to try and control the debate.

I understand this may be difficult for you as an Indian but you are attempting to rig the debate and then taking false high ground.

 

[Ab Fan]

Please then edit your post in the OP where you mention Sachin name.

My post is response to the argument you are trying to present.

You can't make a blanket statement about these players not being in the league of Sachin, expect us to accept the highly biased premise you have presented as fact, and then resort to personal digs regarding nationality to try and control the debate.

I understand this may be difficult for you as an Indian but you are attempting to rig the debate and then taking false high ground.

Seems it's quite easy for you getting triggered.

That is not a blanket statement by any means. Perhaps you didn't read the post fully. It clearly specifies that his below par performance in Australia and for a long period, the inability to convert fifties into tons is a reason why he isn't in the league of Tendulkar, Smith and Lara. So, before putting the blame, try understanding it is by no means a biased premise being presented as a fact.

Unfortunately it seems you probably have mastered the skill to put the blame on others which is why all you could come up with stuffs like false claims, digs blah blah despite failing to read the post fully.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Seems it's quite easy for you getting triggered.

That is not a blanket statement by any means. Perhaps you didn't read the post fully. It clearly specifies that his below par performance in Australia and for a long period, the inability to convert fifties into tons is a reason why he isn't in the league of Tendulkar, Smith and Lara. So, before putting the blame, try understanding it is by no means a biased premise being presented as a fact.

Unfortunately it seems you probably have mastered the skill to put the blame on others which is why all you could come up with stuffs like false claims, digs blah blah despite failing to read the post fully.

All of this is according to you and the arbitrary metrics you have set.

By presenting the argument this way you have also slyly implied neither Pointing or Sangakara are in the league of Sachin either. I completely disagree with this.

I didn't say anything in my post that is not related to your OP. It is related, references a player mentioned in your OP and hasn't deviated from the discussion at all. As I said before if you don't want us to engage with the troubling statements made either edit your OP or have the decency us to dissect the claims you have made fairly without restrictions.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

No offense to anyone but why root can't be compared with Sachin as currently he looks the only serious contender after his record Test runs tally.

 

[kron]

Don't think sanga is better than even prime kohli who is inferior to root? Or is he?
Cause kohli actually performed in aus. However root is a better player of spin and swing. So I will give root the advantage here.
Vs pace and bounce I would 100% say kohli is better than root.

 

[Ab Fan]

Don't think sanga is better than even prime kohli who is inferior to root? Or is he?
Cause kohli actually performed in aus. However root is a better player of spin and swing. So I will give root the advantage here.
Vs pace and bounce I would 100% say kohli is better than root.

Kohli has fallen behind in the ranking in Tests due to loss of form, as he went almost 3 years with no tons.

Kohli's record is average in England and New Zealand. Root has done well in South Africa though. He averages 50 there. Sanga's record was average in India, South Africa and West Indies.

 

[kron]

Kohli has fallen behind in the ranking in Tests due to loss of form, as he went almost 3 years with no tons.

Kohli's record is average in England and New Zealand. Root has done well in South Africa though. He averages 50 there. Sanga's record was average in India, South Africa and West Indies.

Also cause unlike root kohli focused on multiple formats. Hence the drop in average. But I agree overall. Would still take kohli over sanga. Root over both.

Roots non performance vs australia away and vs full strength SA attacks is a botch on his career though

 

[Ab Fan]

Also cause unlike root kohli focused on multiple formats. Hence the drop in average. But I agree overall. Would still take kohli over sanga. Root over both.

Roots non performance vs australia away and vs full strength SA attacks is a botch on his career though

Agreed. If Kohli focused on Tests specifically, he would have gone past Ponting and not just Root. He is a tremendous player of pace bowling and has shown enough evidence that he would do well vs all kinds of bowling attack. He has most tons away from home vs major oppositions.

 

[Hitman]

Your relentless campaign against SRT's legacy is admirable lol.

These insure bunch are all one of a kind, LOL.

 

[atreus]

I can merely laugh at people rating Root ahead of Ponting.

I've to ask, Why? Ponting was a very on and off Batsmen in the first part of his career, brilliant sometimes, average sometimes, poor sometimes, he wasn't anything special, he was averaging 44, not bad but not ATG either, he was like Kevin Pietersen

then all the Greats retired and he became this 72 averaging monster Batsmen for 5 years.....and that coincidentally was when the high way era started, and he had the luxury of batting behind Hayden and Langer who used to completely take the shine off the ball and tire out the main bowlers.

....and then he spent 7 years and like 60 tests as a 40 averaging Batsmen.

Why is Root>Ponting laughable from an overall career perspective? Root's fire might not burn as hot but it has sustained for way longer.

 

[Buffet]

Some data points to comaprae these legends.

Ponting Debuted in 1995. Since 1995, Aus/SA/Ind/Eng has been hardest place to tour for visitors. I know some one will say 3 years SL was hard and 3 years NZ was hard, but over all these 4 places were the hardest over a long periods of time. Also, this is just a data point and players can't be ranked just based on this, but it's a good way to see how good they actually did in toughest place to tour. Ponting/Root against top 3 sides and Sanga against the top 4 sides. Sanga also played a lot less against top sides so top 4 gives a good sample size. We normally have just 3-4 good home teams so 4 top home teams in long period is a good cut off when only 8 serious test nations have played cricket and WI declined big way after 90s.



Here are Avg and tons for each player,

Ponting - Avg 38 - 76 innings - 8 tons
Sanga - Avg 41 - 56 innings - 5 tons
Root - Avg 42 - 72 innings - 4 tons

All three of them averaged 38-42 with scoring tons every 10/11 innings in case of Ponting/Sanga and every 18 innings in case of Root. Ponting/Sanga did face a much weaker bowling side in India/Eng. No Anderson, Broad, Bumrah, Ashwin, Jadeja,Shami etc. SA/Aus had good bowling for their home conditions all times.

 

[Buffet]

Some one may point out that since Ponting struggled in India, putting India brings him down. Same way since Root Struggled in Aus, putting Aus brings him down. But point is you have 3-4 teams combined, you can perform brilliantly against others to cover some ground.

Dravid struggled in SA/Aus in general but he was monster in Eng. That's why despite having 2 out of 3 struggling place his record in SA/Aus/Eng combined looks good. Same way, Kohli struggled in Eng, but he was very good in Aus and SA to cover gorund his records looks good.

You can't have just huge struggle in one place and then middling peroformance in other few places whenever you are facing a tough home teams. You got to score heavily sometime agasint toughest home teams. So clubbing 3-4 teams works fine to see what these batsmen did.

 

[Buffet]

For example, Amla was just top class in the test format. Lots of tough runs. He was a big contributor in SA winning away series. Look at Smith, most of us remember him scoring tough runs.

 

[JaDed]

Indians will protect Ponting against propaganda by Pakistanis.

Begaani shadi main Sab abdulleh deewane.

 

[mominsaigol]

Pointing solos

 

[Mamoon]

Root is dominating one of the toughest eras for batting in Test history (Pakistani pitches aside). He is a top, top class player and people who try to downplay him for XYZ reasons are mad.

 

[Justcrazy]

Ponting is the biggest match winner among these three.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Ponting was a better batter in all countries except India. One can also argue Ponting played in a hall of fame side which he didn't have to face his own all time great bowlers....

This is a tough one.... I would still give it to Ponting because the wickets are terrible these days barring the odd occasion which Root gets to take advantage of to pile on easy runs...

 

[sweep_shot]

Root wins easily.

Ponting was weak against spin. Sanga was very good but Root is better.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Joe Root is a class act. Not taking anything away from Ponting or Sanga but Joe Root has been a modern-day great.

 

[kron]

Root dint perform in Australia
Ponting dint perform in india

Ponting also dint have to face mcgrath who was the greatest bowler of all time.

Root faced bumrah hazlewood cummins rabada jansen shami etc add in boult Jamieson etc.

I am still going with Ponting. He can smash pace and bounce for fun.

Ponting owns Root.

 

[kron]

Pointing solos

Shouldn't even be a discussion tbh. Only blemish is poor performance in India and dint have to face mcgrath.

Ponting easily decimates root. Not close.

Root only better vs spin

Ponting better vs pace bounce and swing too.

And great captain.

 

[kron]

I believe Joe Root with 12000+ test runs and average of 50 has done enough to go down as an all time great in Test cricket. Hence, it is quite fair to pit him up against other all time greats of the game.

While I believe he is not yet in the league of Steve Smith, Sachin Tendulkar and Brian Lara in Test cricket due to his inability to convert fifties into tons consistently and below par performance in Australia, he has done enough to be compared with other legends of the game, leading me to this comparison thread.

Three legends of Test cricket, each with a remarkable legacy—Joe Root, Ricky Ponting, and Kumar Sangakkara. Who stands out as the ultimate batsman in the purest form of the game? Let's dive into their records, styles, and match-winning performances to determine who truly reigns supreme in Test cricket!"

Joe Root
Matches - 144
Runs-12,131
Average- 50.34

Ricky Ponting (Australia)
Matches- 168
Runs- 13,378
Average- 51.85

Kumar Sangakkara (Sri Lanka)
Matches- 134
Runs- 12,400
Average- 57.40

Sanga is a nothing player. Shouldn't even be in the discussion. He is a fodder vs any top team. Never had a match winning performance vs all 3 top sides. Overrate stat padder

Like Kane.

 

[mominsaigol]

Shouldn't even be a discussion tbh. Only blemish is poor performance in India and dint have to face mcgrath.

Ponting easily decimates root. Not close.

Root only better vs spin

Ponting better vs pace bounce and swing too.

And great captain.

Uhh, I disagree that root is better then Pointing at spin. He's more versatile only and is more free flow against it.

Pointing's eye hand coordination and reflexes were out of this world.

That's why he'd only struggle against mcgrath, because to deal with mcgrath you don't need insane reactions or timing or eye hand coordination, since he's already bowling slow.

The issue with Mcgrath is that he forces you to loft 24/7 which is why batters weren't willing to attack him and dominate him, because if they do, they will eventually get out.

To deal with mcgrath you need to good at finding gaps while lofting which isn't easy, regardless of whether you're a right hander or left hander, that 3rd offstump line is an extremly awkward angle to loft over inner ring

 

[kron]

Uhh, I disagree that root is better then Pointing at spin. He's more versatile only and is more free flow against it.

Pointing's eye hand coordination and reflexes were out of this world.

That's why he'd only struggle against mcgrath, because to deal with mcgrath you don't need insane reactions or timing or eye hand coordination, since he's already bowling slow.

The issue with Mcgrath is that he forces you to loft 24/7 which is why batters weren't willing to attack him and dominate him, because if they do, they will eventually get out.

To deal with mcgrath you need to good at finding gaps while lofting which isn't easy, regardless of whether you're a right hander or left hander, that 3rd offstump line is an extremly awkward angle to loft over inner ring

You don't think root is better than punter vs spin?
Not sure about that man. Actually you might be right. The great root struggled on every turner vs india too. He scored that one hundred vs india only on the flattest pitch I. Chennai. Averaged like sub 30 after that test in 2021 and then same this year. On any turning pitch he was found out.


But ponting was horrible vs spin in india. So I am still going to say root > punter vs spin

But pontinf defecates on him overall vs any other type of bowling.

 

[atreus]

Shouldn't even be a discussion tbh. Only blemish is poor performance in India and dint have to face mcgrath.

Ponting easily decimates root. Not close.

Root only better vs spin

Ponting better vs pace bounce and swing too.

And great captain.

Ponting is in no way, no sense compareable to Joe Root as a batsmen of swing bowling.

Root in the 2021 India series where the ball was swinging miles was maybe the single greatest Batsmen against raw swing bowling since Dravid in the 2011 English tour, he made three hundreds and averaged like 100 against Bumrah/Shami/Siraj.

Ponting on the other hand has struggles against all forms of swing bowling in England, he was always very good here but never quite had that monster tour, he averages 41 in England, which isn't anything impressive for an elite Batsmen.

Ponting was also vulnerable against Vaas and Ishant weirdly

Ponting only wins against Bounce bowling against Root, on pretty much everything else, every form of lateral movement Root has the edge.

Uhh, I disagree that root is better then Pointing at spin. He's more versatile only and is more free flow against it.

Pointing's eye hand coordination and reflexes were out of this world.

That's why he'd only struggle against mcgrath, because to deal with mcgrath you don't need insane reactions or timing or eye hand coordination, since he's already bowling slow.

The issue with Mcgrath is that he forces you to loft 24/7 which is why batters weren't willing to attack him and dominate him, because if they do, they will eventually get out.

To deal with mcgrath you need to good at finding gaps while lofting which isn't easy, regardless of whether you're a right hander or left hander, that 3rd offstump line is an extremly awkward angle to loft over inner ring

Eh, Ponting was notoriously weak to spin bowling, even the likes of Venkatpathy Raju, Anil Kumble (tho, he was very good), Harbhajan Singh and even sometimes Virender Sehwag made him look weak as a Batsmen.

his average is 26 in India.

Root on the other hand has that 219 at Chennai against Ashwin (who took a 6fer the same match, likes of Dom Bess and Jack Leach took 4fers on that track), his 120* earlier the year came on a proper spin wicket, and his 84 next match was also on a horrible pitch.

Root is honestly eons ahead of Punter against spin.

 

[mominsaigol]

You don't think root is better than punter vs spin?
Not sure about that man. Actually you might be right. The great root struggled on every turner vs india too. He scored that one hundred vs india only on the flattest pitch I. Chennai. Averaged like sub 30 after that test in 2021 and then same this year. On any turning pitch he was found out.


But ponting was horrible vs spin in india. So I am still going to say root > punter vs spin

But pontinf defecates on him overall vs any other type of bowling.

In test cricket India was the only place where Pointing sucked in test cricket. I do not know why but he was genuinely a bunny irrespective of the bowler.

It was a mental block, no clue why it occurred or happened, but it is what it is.

I wouldn't use his performance in one country as a metric cause he's crap againat everyone in said country minus one or 2 notable innings in said country.

That 26 avg is shocking considering he averages 40 to 100 every where else depending on the region

 

[mominsaigol]

Ponting is in no way, no sense compareable to Joe Root as a batsmen of swing bowling.

Root in the 2021 India series where the ball was swinging miles was maybe the single greatest Batsmen against raw swing bowling since Dravid in the 2011 English tour, he made three hundreds and averaged like 100 against Bumrah/Shami/Siraj.

Ponting on the other hand has struggles against all forms of swing bowling in England, he was always very good here but never quite had that monster tour, he averages 41 in England, which isn't anything impressive for an elite Batsmen.

Ponting was also vulnerable against Vaas and Ishant weirdly

Ponting only wins against Bounce bowling against Root, on pretty much everything else, every form of lateral movement Root has the edge.


Eh, Ponting was notoriously weak to spin bowling, even the likes of Venkatpathy Raju, Anil Kumble (tho, he was very good), Harbhajan Singh and even sometimes Virender Sehwag made him look weak as a Batsmen.

his average is 26 in India.

Root on the other hand has that 219 at Chennai against Ashwin (who took a 6fer the same match, likes of Dom Bess and Jack Leach took 4fers on that track), his 120* earlier the year came on a proper spin wicket, and his 84 next match was also on a horrible pitch.

Root is honestly eons ahead of Punter against spin.

World doesn't live in India. Pointing in india is an outlier.

 

[Hitman]

Ponting is definitely among the top 3 greatest batsman I've ever seen. His decline started after the end of the 2007 WC. He still played some fine innings after that, but the consistency and his ruthless approach was gone.

Prior to that he was an absolute delight to watch. I'd rate him the joint 2nd best batsman from Australia with Greg Chappell.​

 

[Mamoon]

Ponting is the new guy of Indian fans because anything to downplay the success of Root.

 

[Hitman]

Ponting is the new guy of Indian fans because anything to downplay the success of Root.

Just like Root is the new guy of Pakistani fans since they sense he can break Sachin Tendulkar's record. Their previous ones were Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Sangakkara and Cook, who all failed to fulfil their fantasies.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

In test cricket India was the only place where Pointing sucked in test cricket. I do not know why but he was genuinely a bunny irrespective of the bowler.

It was a mental block, no clue why it occurred or happened, but it is what it is.

I wouldn't use his performance in one country as a metric cause he's crap againat everyone in said country minus one or 2 notable innings in said country.

That 26 avg is shocking considering he averages 40 to 100 every where else depending on the region

He struggled against Harbhajan. No other reason

 

[atreus]

World doesn't live in India. Pointing in india is an outlier.

Obviously, but that doesn't really change the fact that Ponting was rendered unimpressive by almost every great spinner he met while Root has been one of the greatest Batsmen on spin pitches, infact, by far the best one bar Steven Smith in last ten years.

Ponting is definitely among the top 3 greatest batsman I've ever seen. His decline started after the end of the 2007 WC. He still played some fine innings after that, but the consistency and his ruthless approach was gone.

Prior to that he was an absolute delight to watch. I'd rate him the joint 2nd best batsman from Australia with Greg Chappell.​

a big problem of Ponting's career is that he was a bit like Waqar, when he came onto the scene I used to rate him as a very good player but nothing generational, he was like Kevin Pietersen or Michael Clarke at that point, he played some amazing innings but he was too on and off.

then you've 2002-2006 where he was perhaps the greatest batsmen I've ever seen, I'm sure the ultra flat pitches and the retirement of all the great bowlers helped him but he was genuinely the best batsmen in the world at that point, he was genuinely frightningly amazing and that peak was even superior to the peaks of Tendulkar, Lara and ofcourse, Root.

but then by 2007 he again fell off, and this time he was barely averaging 40, but the bigger problem was that he was kind of just...there? he didn't have many great years after that, he was just...constantly mediocre?

and the statistics would support my viewpoint on Ponting, for example

his first 52 tests (1995-2001) where he was an up and coming Batsmen, on and off repeatedly, he was averaging 44 which was good but obviously not compareable to someone like Root, he was like Kevin Pietersen more or less, he would play astoinishing knocks but not much in the way of consistency.

his next 57 tests (2002-2006), he was genuinely maybe the best Batsmen of the century bar Smith, an average of 72, he destroyed everyone everywhere, this peak is one of the greatest in cricketting history but it also happened to take place in the era where the pitches got ultra flat, and all the great bowlers had retired, so that I reckon plays a factor into why the prime was so absurd.

his next 59 tests (2007-2012), he was just kind of there...? his average was 40.1 even with many flat tracks, he didn't have one great year, he had some nice innings but let's be real, pitches were flat in this era, and the average of 40.1 just isn't good in that era.

compare this to Lara, or Sachin, or Kallis, who all had more than a decade of brilliance in their careers, while Ponting was kind of just a very good batsmen outside of a godly four year stretch, and the four year stretch convineantly happened when he was batting on complete highways...against no real remaining ATG bowlers...with no real trouble because Hayden and Langer used to tire out all the bowlers and take the shine off the ball...simply put, Ponting as a peak might be the best of all time like Waqar, but outside of that? from the perspective of an overall career, he deeply struggles against guys like Sachin, Lara, Kallis and also Root. Root has been the undisputed best batsmen in the world for 4 years now, as well as it being the hardest era to bat in since the second world war.

simply put, while Prime Ponting is certainly a superior Batsmen to current/prime Root, Ponting's case suffers against elite Batsmen when you take the whole career into account, that's why he wasn't really anywhere close to Lara or Tendulkar and even had arguments below Waugh and Border.

Overall career wise, Sachin~Lara>Root>Ponting>~Kallis>Sangakkara~Dravid.

(all my views are Test cricket, btw)

 

[Mamoon]

Obviously, but that doesn't really change the fact that Ponting was rendered unimpressive by almost every great spinner he met while Root has been one of the greatest Batsmen on spin pitches, infact, by far the best one bar Steven Smith in last ten years.


a big problem of Ponting's career is that he was a bit like Waqar, when he came onto the scene I used to rate him as a very good player but nothing generational, he was like Kevin Pietersen or Michael Clarke at that point, he played some amazing innings but he was too on and off.

then you've 2002-2006 where he was perhaps the greatest batsmen I've ever seen, I'm sure the ultra flat pitches and the retirement of all the great bowlers helped him but he was genuinely the best batsmen in the world at that point, he was genuinely frightningly amazing and that peak was even superior to the peaks of Tendulkar, Lara and ofcourse, Root.

but then by 2007 he again fell off, and this time he was barely averaging 40, but the bigger problem was that he was kind of just...there? he didn't have many great years after that, he was just...constantly mediocre?

and the statistics would support my viewpoint on Ponting, for example

his first 52 tests (1995-2001) where he was an up and coming Batsmen, on and off repeatedly, he was averaging 44 which was good but obviously not compareable to someone like Root, he was like Kevin Pietersen more or less, he would play astoinishing knocks but not much in the way of consistency.

his next 57 tests (2002-2006), he was genuinely maybe the best Batsmen of the century bar Smith, an average of 72, he destroyed everyone everywhere, this peak is one of the greatest in cricketting history but it also happened to take place in the era where the pitches got ultra flat, and all the great bowlers had retired, so that I reckon plays a factor into why the prime was so absurd.

his next 59 tests (2007-2012), he was just kind of there...? his average was 40.1 even with many flat tracks, he didn't have one great year, he had some nice innings but let's be real, pitches were flat in this era, and the average of 40.1 just isn't good in that era.

compare this to Lara, or Sachin, or Kallis, who all had more than a decade of brilliance in their careers, while Ponting was kind of just a very good batsmen outside of a godly four year stretch, and the four year stretch convineantly happened when he was batting on complete highways...against no real remaining ATG bowlers...with no real trouble because Hayden and Langer used to tire out all the bowlers and take the shine off the ball...simply put, Ponting as a peak might be the best of all time like Waqar, but outside of that? from the perspective of an overall career, he deeply struggles against guys like Sachin, Lara, Kallis and also Root. Root has been the undisputed best batsmen in the world for 4 years now, as well as it being the hardest era to bat in since the second world war.

simply put, while Prime Ponting is certainly a superior Batsmen to current/prime Root, Ponting's case suffers against elite Batsmen when you take the whole career into account, that's why he wasn't really anywhere close to Lara or Tendulkar and even had arguments below Waugh and Border.

Overall career wise, Sachin~Lara>Root>Ponting>~Kallis>Sangakkara~Dravid.

(all my views are Test cricket, btw)

I agree with a lot that you have written about Ponting. Very insightful for sure and I hold similar sentiments. However, it is also worth noting that he was quite young when the great bowlers of the 90’s were young, and his prime coincided with their retirement and not because of their retirement.

I think he would have done well against these bowlers in his 2002-2006 period.

 

[kron]

Ponting is in no way, no sense compareable to Joe Root as a batsmen of swing bowling.

Root in the 2021 India series where the ball was swinging miles was maybe the single greatest Batsmen against raw swing bowling since Dravid in the 2011 English tour, he made three hundreds and averaged like 100 against Bumrah/Shami/Siraj.

Ponting on the other hand has struggles against all forms of swing bowling in England, he was always very good here but never quite had that monster tour, he averages 41 in England, which isn't anything impressive for an elite Batsmen.

Ponting was also vulnerable against Vaas and Ishant weirdly

Ponting only wins against Bounce bowling against Root, on pretty much everything else, every form of lateral movement Root has the edge.


Eh, Ponting was notoriously weak to spin bowling, even the likes of Venkatpathy Raju, Anil Kumble (tho, he was very good), Harbhajan Singh and even sometimes Virender Sehwag made him look weak as a Batsmen.

his average is 26 in India.

Root on the other hand has that 219 at Chennai against Ashwin (who took a 6fer the same match, likes of Dom Bess and Jack Leach took 4fers on that track), his 120* earlier the year came on a proper spin wicket, and his 84 next match was also on a horrible pitch.

Root is honestly eons ahead of Punter against spin.

Ponting was better vs swing compared to root vs bounce. So I am picking ponting still.

Spin yes I agree root is superior.

 

[kron]

In test cricket India was the only place where Pointing sucked in test cricket. I do not know why but he was genuinely a bunny irrespective of the bowler.

It was a mental block, no clue why it occurred or happened, but it is what it is.

I wouldn't use his performance in one country as a metric cause he's crap againat everyone in said country minus one or 2 notable innings in said country.

That 26 avg is shocking considering he averages 40 to 100 every where else depending on the region

India usually up their game vs top sides. So that'd probably what happened.
Australia is seen as the ultimate litmus test for all in cricket.

 

[atreus]

Ponting was better vs swing compared to root vs bounce. So I am picking ponting still.

Spin yes I agree root is superior.

Root is weakest against Bounce, Ponting against Spin. Root is strongest against Swing, Ponting against Bounce. the middle for Root was Spin and the middle for Ponting was swing.

Root against Bounce > Ponting against Spin (They both did well in South Africa/Sri Lanka, Root is better in Australia than Ponting was in India)

Root against Spin > Ponting against swing. (Root averages 45+ in India after wasting three matches as a full time spinner, match winning knocks there and he singlehandely won England a series in Sri Lanka on genuine rank turners, Ponting against Swing was a man of performances rather than tours)

Root against swing ~ Ponting against Pace

Flat patches, Ponting>Root

so saying there is a big gap between them is delusional.

 

[atreus]

I agree with a lot that you have written about Ponting. Very insightful for sure and I hold similar sentiments. However, it is also worth noting that he was quite young when the great bowlers of the 90’s were young, and his prime coincided with their retirement and not because of their retirement.

I think he would have done well against these bowlers in his 2002-2006 period.

Of Course, I don't hold Ponting's early career's against him, they had some wonderful performances and he was like 27 in 2001 and a wonderful young batsmen, but the three guys I rated above him, Tendulkar/Lara/Root/Steven Smith were all proper world beaters by that point, averaging 50+ everyone, compared to men like these is only when Ponting's early career becomes a factor against him.

I do think in that 2002-2006 period he would've bashed ATG bowlers too, but perhaps, the reason he averages 72 is because of the added little boost of flat tracks and no ATG pacers, if they were there, maybe he would average 60-65 and be less of an analomy.

 

[Romali_rotti]

he destroyed everyone everywhere,

(all my views are Test cricket, btw)

Son or Kratos ?

Agree with most if your posts except the above, I would say Ponting was at the top of his game during the Aus tour of India in 2001.

I remember Steve Waugh prior to that fatal 2001 tour of India, even told in the media that Ponting would challenge SRT for the best bat in the world title, what followed was Ponting struggling to put bat on ball during that whole test series.

Every player has a bogey man team and country, India was Ponting's. No matter how great Ponting's peak was, he just didn't have what it took to succeed there...

 

[kron]

Root is weakest against Bounce, Ponting against Spin. Root is strongest against Swing, Ponting against Bounce. the middle for Root was Spin and the middle for Ponting was swing.

Root against Bounce > Ponting against Spin (They both did well in South Africa/Sri Lanka, Root is better in Australia than Ponting was in India)

Root against Spin > Ponting against swing. (Root averages 45+ in India after wasting three matches as a full time spinner, match winning knocks there and he singlehandely won England a series in Sri Lanka on genuine rank turners, Ponting against Swing was a man of performances rather than tours)

Root against swing ~ Ponting against Pace

Flat patches, Ponting>Root

so saying there is a big gap between them is delusional.

Root played terrible on rank turners in 2021
He had one good game in the first match in chennai.

That's it

Then flopped hard in the remaining tests

Also he failed in aus.

Ponting only had a Bad record in India.

And root only plays tests

Ponting played both formats. If Ponting played tests alone he would average even higher. At one point he averaged 59.

Both have flaws but Ponting did reasonably well in other Asian countries just not india.

 

[atreus]

Root played terrible on rank turners in 2021
He had one good game in the first match in chennai.

That's it

Then flopped hard in the remaining tests

Also he failed in aus.

Ponting only had a Bad record in India.

And root only plays tests

Ponting played both formats. If Ponting played tests alone he would average even higher. At one point he averaged 59.

Both have flaws but Ponting did reasonably well in other Asian countries just not india.

This is a bad argument, infact it's a very bad argument.

Simply because you're basically saying that if you take away the innings where Root scored against India and played a match winning inning...then he has a medicore record? well duh, you took out the innings where he did well so ofcourse he did poorly.

India is a monsterous side at home, they've lost 4 tests at home in last 50 tests they've played at home, they've lost a grand total of 4 times, and Root single handedly handed them a defeat, and then in the 2024 tour he also had some amazing performances with the bat and was pivotal to the first win with the ball, the only reason he averages 45 in India and not near 50 is because he played as a mainline bowler for three tests earlier this year.

regardless, while Root has been inconsistent in India, batting England to a win singlehandely is more than enough to clear Ponting's achievements against spin bowling, I'll always take a batsmen with impactful match winning knocks like that over ones that are consistent with 50s and small hundreds.

You also ignored when Root singlehandedly won us the 2021 Sri Lanka series on genuine rank turners, which is again, beyond Ponting's achievements against spin.

Root averages 45 in India, Ponting averages 41 in England, yet Root "failed" in India when he is, honestly, one of the greatest visitors ever to India?
Root averages 35 in Australia, Ponting averages 26 in India. Root is average in Aus, Ponting was bad in India.

once again, fundamentally your argument doesn't take into account anything that makes Root a superior Batsmen. like with Ponting averaging 69, yeah, right after his prime Ponting was averaging 59, and then proceeded to be meh for 60 testd

Root averages higher than Ponting in Sri Lanka, India and Sri Lanka are the only spin friendly nations currently. Now, Root also plays ODI cricket when asked to, but he is mainly a test batsmen, and that's where he is superior to Ponting.

Son or Kratos ?

Agree with most if your posts except the above, I would say Ponting was at the top of his game during the Aus tour of India in 2001.

I remember Steve Waugh prior to that fatal 2001 tour of India, even told in the media that Ponting would challenge SRT for the best bat in the world title, what followed was Ponting struggling to put bat on ball during that whole test series.

Every player has a bogey man team and country, India was Ponting's. No matter how great Ponting's peak was, he just didn't have what it took to succeed there...

Yeah, tho I think Ponting was still a talent in 2001, but he looked promising as hell and had a great 99-00 even tho he played little.

then the 2001 India tour was a nightmare and the Ashes was also medicore bar one match, it wasn't until the Newzealand tour where I'd say Ponting's prime truly kickstarted.

 

[sindhiboy]

Ponting played in an era when both Australia and Indian served up flat pancakes.
Root is playing in a more bowling friendly era and had to single handedly carry England's batting for quite a while.

Maybe they can be considered equal now, but if Root scores a few tons in the next Ashes, he will overtake Ponting.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Ponting played in a era of Great fast bowlers and spinners. Same can't be said of the current era, bar bumrah Cummins or ashwain

 

[atreus]

Ponting played in a era of Great fast bowlers and spinners. Same can't be said of the current era, bar bumrah Cummins or ashwain

and he didn't hit his prime until all of them retired, and he averages 41 outside of that prime.

 

[kron]

This is a bad argument, infact it's a very bad argument.

Simply because you're basically saying that if you take away the innings where Root scored against India and played a match winning inning...then he has a medicore record? well duh, you took out the innings where he did well so ofcourse he did poorly.

India is a monsterous side at home, they've lost 4 tests at home in last 50 tests they've played at home, they've lost a grand total of 4 times, and Root single handedly handed them a defeat, and then in the 2024 tour he also had some amazing performances with the bat and was pivotal to the first win with the ball, the only reason he averages 45 in India and not near 50 is because he played as a mainline bowler for three tests earlier this year.

regardless, while Root has been inconsistent in India, batting England to a win singlehandely is more than enough to clear Ponting's achievements against spin bowling, I'll always take a batsmen with impactful match winning knocks like that over ones that are consistent with 50s and small hundreds.

You also ignored when Root singlehandedly won us the 2021 Sri Lanka series on genuine rank turners, which is again, beyond Ponting's achievements against spin.

Root averages 45 in India, Ponting averages 41 in England, yet Root "failed" in India when he is, honestly, one of the greatest visitors ever to India?
Root averages 35 in Australia, Ponting averages 26 in India. Root is average in Aus, Ponting was bad in India.

once again, fundamentally your argument doesn't take into account anything that makes Root a superior Batsmen. like with Ponting averaging 69, yeah, right after his prime Ponting was averaging 59, and then proceeded to be meh for 60 testd

Root averages higher than Ponting in Sri Lanka, India and Sri Lanka are the only spin friendly nations currently. Now, Root also plays ODI cricket when asked to, but he is mainly a test batsmen, and that's where he is superior to Ponting.

Yeah, tho I think Ponting was still a talent in 2001, but he looked promising as hell and had a great 99-00 even tho he played little.

then the 2001 India tour was a nightmare and the Ashes was also medicore bar one match, it wasn't until the Newzealand tour where I'd say Ponting's prime truly kickstarted.

Calibre of lanka team root faced was trash compared to what Ponting faced vs chucker murali.

Also

I agree india was a major blemish for Ponting.
The test match root single handedly won England vs india was on the flattest pan cake of.a pitch in chennai. I watched the whole series. Worst pitch. Team that batted first had a humongous advantage.

Besides ash and co were just getting into their grooves. That loss annoyed India and the next 3 tests showed England's true level when India decimated them on actual rank turners.

I agree though root is better than Ponting vs spin


Ponting is significantly better vs pace and bounce. Root struggles vs anyone who bowls channel balls outside off. Cummins hazkewood bumrah rabada have all had success vs him.

Vs swing is the real debate. Ponting even vs swing I feel is not far from roots level. I will give the root the edge here.

And yes on flat wickets Ponting is better there too. And on seaming bouncy wickets.

So it's 2 - 2 really. Playing swing can be taught but having a weakness vs bounce is rarely ever fixed. Root is not a scrub vs bounce. He plays it decently but he has a clear weakness there.

It's condition dependent as to who you would choose amongst these 2.

 

[kron]

Ponting played in a era of Great fast bowlers and spinners. Same can't be said of the current era, bar bumrah Cummins or ashwain

No this era is easily as good as Ponting's era for bowlers. So many strong bowling attacks. Just cause pakistan sucks doesn't mean other bowling attacks aren't good.

But yes punter is better vs pace bounce and flat wickets.

Vs spin root is better

Only swing is the debate. But edge to root here.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

and he didn't hit his prime until all of them retired, and he averages 41 outside of that prime.

Bottom line is 41 against GOAT Bowlers is far better than t20 standard bowlers

 

[aboveandbeyond]

No this era is easily as good as Ponting's era for bowlers. So many strong bowling attacks. Just cause pakistan sucks doesn't mean other bowling attacks aren't good.

But yes punter is better vs pace bounce and flat wickets.

Vs spin root is better

Only swing is the debate. But edge to root here.

Bar Aussy or India attack name another decent attack

 

[anikrc1]

Bar Aussy or India attack name another decent attack

South africa ? Root faced steyn phillander Rabada Norje Jansen. New Zealand with boult wagner southhe jamieson ?

 

[anikrc1]

Bar Aussy or India attack name another decent attack

Though Root faced much weaker pakistan. and srilankan attack than Pakistan. Ponting faced much weaker nz and Indian attack. I will rate the aussie attack root faced better than the English attack ponting faced.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

South africa ? Root faced steyn phillander Rabada Norje Jansen. New Zealand with boult wagner southhe jamieson ?

Bar rabada phillander was a spent force, kiwi attack was ok at best. Now if I give you the list punter faced then it's a no contest

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Though Root faced much weaker pakistan. and srilankan attack than Pakistan. Ponting faced much weaker nz and Indian attack. I will rate the aussie attack root faced better than the English attack ponting faced.

Wasim
Waqar
Steyn
Ambrose
Walsh
Donald
Muralu
Asif
Shoaib
Anderson
Broad
Harmisson
Harbajhan
Zaheer
Pollock

The list could go on

 

[atreus]

Calibre of lanka team root faced was trash compared to what Ponting faced vs chucker murali.

Also

I agree india was a major blemish for Ponting.
The test match root single handedly won England vs india was on the flattest pan cake of.a pitch in chennai. I watched the whole series. Worst pitch. Team that batted first had a humongous advantage.

Besides ash and co were just getting into their grooves. That loss annoyed India and the next 3 tests showed England's true level when India decimated them on actual rank turners.

I agree though root is better than Ponting vs spin


Ponting is significantly better vs pace and bounce. Root struggles vs anyone who bowls channel balls outside off. Cummins hazkewood bumrah rabada have all had success vs him.

Vs swing is the real debate. Ponting even vs swing I feel is not far from roots level. I will give the root the edge here.

And yes on flat wickets Ponting is better there too. And on seaming bouncy wickets.

So it's 2 - 2 really. Playing swing can be taught but having a weakness vs bounce is rarely ever fixed. Root is not a scrub vs bounce. He plays it decently but he has a clear weakness there.

It's condition dependent as to who you would choose amongst these 2.

Yeah sure, but the Lankan team rolled down the rest of English batting and even part time medicore spinners like dominick Bess are threatening in Sri Lanka, Again, it's a rank turner

on the same chennai pitch Dom Bess and Jack Leach toom 4 fers, Ashwin toom a 5 fer, it was Root's brilliance that made the pitch feel flat, it wasn't a flat cake.

again, England lost the other matches, that doesn't mean that Root's accomplishment should just be overwritten, we won 2 out of our last 10 matches in India, that's better than what other teams have managed and it's all because root.

I won't say Rabada has success against Root, against Prime Rabada Root had a series winning 100, averaged 55 and countered both Rabada anf Steyn and Morkel in the same tour, he is better against Bounce than Ponting was against spin.

I mean, Root has been a living legend against swing, the work in Newzealand, the work against Bumrah, Ponting was constantly struggling with the likes of Hoggard, Jones and Flintoff against swing bowling.

Yeah, my point always has been that saying Ponting defacates on Root and destroys him is insanely disrespectful and it's insanely disrespectful.

Bottom line is 41 against GOAT Bowlers is far better than t20 standard bowlers

Nah, because Root has better performances against ATGs in the making than Ponting does against ATGs, The average of 41 tells you that.

 

[anikrc1]

Bar rabada phillander was a spent force, kiwi attack was ok at best. Now if I give you the list punter faced then it's a no contest

It looks like nostalgia now. If Rabada phillander Steyn is not good enough then Ponting hasn't faced a good attack ever. In fact no batsmen who haven't faced the WI quartet has faced a good attack then. The NZ attack was definitely world class and better than the Indian and SL attack that Ponting faced despite SL having Murali.

 

[atreus]

Wasim
Waqar
Steyn
Ambrose
Walsh
Donald
Muralu
Asif
Shoaib
Anderson
Broad
Harmisson
Harbajhan
Zaheer
Pollock

The list could go on.

Rabada
Steyn
Bumrah
Hazelwood
Cummins
Starc
Boult
Wagner
Ashwin
Jadeja
Shami
Southee
Lyon

etc

and Root actually played against them his while career, unlike a certain someone.

 

[anikrc1]

Wasim
Waqar
Steyn
Ambrose
Walsh
Donald
Muralu
Asif
Shoaib
Anderson
Broad
Harmisson
Harbajhan
Zaheer
Pollock

The list could go on

But that's a emalgamation of eras. Peak Ambrose and Peak Shoaib happened in two different eras. Also Harmisson and Zahher are 30 plus average pacers. They were no great bowlers.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Rabada
Steyn
Bumrah
Hazelwood
Cummins
Starc
Boult
Wagner
Ashwin
Jadeja
Shami
Southee
Lyon

etc

and Root actually played against them his while career, unlike a certain someone.

It's like comparing chalk and cheese

 

[aboveandbeyond]

But that's a emalgamation of eras. Peak Ambrose and Peak Shoaib happened in two different eras. Also Harmisson and Zahher are 30 plus average pacers. They were no great bowlers.

Same can be said of alot of the bowlers u listed.

E.g.
Wagner
Southee
Wagner