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Junaid Khan vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

Junaid was garbage today, what a time to bump this thread :butt

Although no need to criticize him in particular because Tanvir and Bhatti were rubbish too.
 
Mamoon_ said:
Junaid was garbage today, what a time to bump this thread :butt

Although no need to criticize him in particular because Tanvir and Bhatti were rubbish too.
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They were bowling on a road of a pitch so cant really criticize the bowlers. However his Death bowling is quality as always.
 
Junaid Khan in 2013: 24 matches, 42 wickets at average of 23.20
B. Kumar in 2013: 25 matches, 28 wickets at average of 33.85

Certain people are quick to defend B. Kumar saying his figures were damaged by 'flat tracks', but today was one of the flattest I have seen yet Junaid still picked up 3 wickets :D Why do these sad Indians pretend to be Pakistanis? I see them posting multiple times on threads praising Indian players yet when a Pakistani pacer picks up 3 wickets on an absolute patta they were 'garbage'
 
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We can't criticize Junaid Khan alone because everyone was rubbish today.
But one thing that this match tells us is that Junaid Khan wouldn't have been effective against Australia on those flat tracks of India,as people on PP believe. Junaid Khan would have been fairly expensive there,considering this performance on a flat track. Most people here on PP say that Kumar was rubbish in that series and what not. It just tells us that it is not easy to bowl in such flat conditions.

This is not a knee-jerk reaction. I am just trying to clear up a misconception.
 
awaisrehman said:
Junaid Khan in 2013: 24 matches, 42 wickets at average of 23.20
B. Kumar in 2013: 25 matches, 28 wickets at average of 33.85

Certain people are quick to defend B. Kumar saying his figures were damaged by 'flat tracks', but today was one of the flattest I have seen yet Junaid still picked up 3 wickets :D Why do these sad Indians pretend to be Pakistanis? I see them posting multiple times on threads praising Indian players yet when a Pakistani pacer picks up 3 wickets on an absolute patta they were 'garbage'
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Which one of his 3 wickets were on good balls?
 
I agree that a bad bowling day should not discredit his numbers, however, I still think we lack a quality spearhead who can lead our ODI bowling attack.

Irfan is the x factor but he won't be around for long. Gul is not the bowler he is in T-20s when it comes to ODIs.

Junaid is a decent bowler. I like him, but he's not the pack leader. Not yet anyway. He could prove me wrong.
 
as-95 said:
They were bowling on a road of a pitch so cant really criticize the bowlers. However his Death bowling is quality as always.
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Use the same gauge for B Kumar as well, he has also been tonked recently on road pitches.
 
Besides, there's no way Bhuvi would have defended 9 off an over, or even 14.
 
the pitch was flat as a pancake so yes he was expensive but crucially as usual picked up wkts and bowled a match winning death over
 
The Dark Corner said:
Regardless, a wicket is important in such a high scoring match.

I don't see why you bumped this thread considering the gulf between the two bowlers in 2013...
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Still Remember

Junaid 5 Overs 3 runs Spell vs SA in Johburg When he was Wicketless Bowled very very well

In Delhi Odi only Taken 1 wicket where he should had taken More

VS WI in 4th Odi he Should had taken 4-5 Wickets in That Match his Catches Was droped

Bad-Good Times do Come Memoom

at Time u Bowl Lose Bowl Get wickets
at time Bowl Great Bowl and Get inside edge and four

Part of Game
 
Mamoon_ said:
Which one of his 3 wickets were on good balls?
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What logic is that? What do you classify a 'good' ball. I consider a good ball not being able to be hit out the ground. A bad ball gets hit for six, a good ball at the death gets caught. :S

Mamoon_ said:
Use the same gauge for B Kumar as well, he has also been tonked recently on road pitches.
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Did he play all 25 matches on those roads? The fact of the matter is he played 5 matches in that series and picked up only 2 wickets at an average of 117 LOL. Junaid Khan played 1 game on an absolute road yet picked up 3 wickets.

And ermmm what about the South Africa ODI series on bowling paradises? 9 wicketless overs for 68 runs, yet Junaid defended 9 runs in the final over against the likes of Miller and Duminy (in fact he only gave 2 runs!)
 
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96NotOut said:
Besides, there's no way Bhuvi would have defended 9 off an over, or even 14.
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I've never rated Bhuv with the old ball. Far better than Junaid with the new ball though.

For the stats-obsessed folk, he had a better average and economy rate than Junaid before the Australian series and the way Junaid bowled today, there is little indication that he would have bowled well had he bowled in the Australian series.

I personally don't believe in stats because they are misleading.

I prefer Bhuv with the new ball because he can swing + seam the ball. Junaid does nothing with the new ball even in helpful conditions. Very flat.

But since he has more pace, he is a better death bowler. In fact he is one of the best last over bowler around. Defended 6 in South Africa and also did so in a domestic T20 game in England.

He is far from being a top class bowler. He is just decent. Umar Gul level is what I said the first time I saw him and I still stand by that.
 
awaisrehman said:
What logic is that? What do you classify a 'good' ball. I consider a good ball not being able to be hit out the ground. A bad ball gets hit for six, a good ball at the death gets caught. :S



Did he play all 25 matches on those roads? The fact of the matter is he played 5 matches in that series and picked up only 2 wickets at an average of 117 LOL. Junaid Khan played 1 game on an absolute road yet picked up 3 wickets.
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Junaid has played 50% of his ODIs against minnows and WI (who are glorified minnows, nothing more. When was the last time they won a series against a good team?).

He's far too unproven and limited to be considered a top class fast bowler/spearhead.
 
Mamoon_ said:
I've never rated Bhuv with the old ball. Far better than Junaid with the new ball though.

For the stats-obsessed folk, he had a better average and economy rate than Junaid before the Australian series and the way Junaid bowled today, there is little indication that he would have bowled well had he bowled in the Australian series.

I personally don't believe in stats because they are misleading.

I prefer Bhuv with the new ball because he can swing + seam the ball. Junaid does nothing with the new ball even in helpful conditions. Very flat.

But since he has more pace, he is a better death bowler. In fact he is one of the best last over bowler around. Defended 6 in South Africa and also did so in a domestic T20 game in England.

He is far from being a top class bowler. He is just decent. Umar Gul level is what I said the first time I saw him and I still stand by that.
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Mamoon_ said:
Junaid has played 50% of his ODIs against minnows and WI (who are glorified minnows, nothing more. When was the last time they won a series against a good team?).

He's far too unproven and limited to be considered a top class fast bowler/spearhead.
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You forgot this bit:

What about the South Africa ODI series on bowling paradises? 9 wicketless overs for 68 runs for B. Kumar, yet Junaid defended 9 runs in the final over against the likes of Miller and Duminy (in fact he only gave 2 runs!)

You don't believe in stats but ALWAYS bring up Shehzad's stats? And how did B. Kumar bowl in South Africa? Helpful conditions with the new ball against inexperienced de Kock yet he still got smacked LOL
 
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awaisrehman said:
You forgot this bit:

What about the South Africa ODI series on bowling paradises? 9 wicketless overs for 68 runs for B. Kumar, yet Junaid defended 9 runs in the final over against the likes of Miller and Duminy (in fact he only gave 2 runs!)
Click to expand...

He was poor in South Africa and that has been established already, just like Junaid was awful in the Champions Trophy in similarly helpful conditions.

But all players deserve a bit of a leeway whether they're good or not.

If I am the captain and I've both bowlers in my team, I know who I'd give the new ball and the old ball.
 
Neither is Junaid a regular. I've lost count of the number of times he has been benched.
 
Shehzad's pathetic stats is one of the many reasons why I don't rate him at all.
 
Mamoon_ said:
Junaid has played 50% of his ODIs against minnows and WI (who are glorified minnows, nothing more. When was the last time they won a series against a good team?).

He's far too unproven and limited to be considered a top class fast bowler/spearhead.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say his stats are inflated due to playing non minnows

If thats your point think again He avges in the early 20s against non minnows combined too, so that basis of argument is rubbish
 
Mamoon_ said:
He was poor in South Africa and that has been established already, just like Junaid was awful in the Champions Trophy in similarly helpful conditions.

But all players deserve a bit of a leeway whether they're good or not.

If I am the captain and I've both bowlers in my team, I know who I'd give the new ball and the old ball.
Click to expand...

I discussed this already, when Junaid has to bowl to defend low totals posted by our poor batting lineup you can't expect him to do anything especially as the batting team didn't need to take an unnecessary risks, surprising you didn't know that since you 'don't believe in stats'.

Mamoon_ said:
Neither is Junaid a regular. I've lost count of the number of times he has been benched.
Click to expand...

Well he has played many ODIs, just as much as B. Kumar actually. Yet has picked up almost twice the number of wickets against quality sides like SA.

Mamoon_ said:
Shehzad's pathetic stats is one of the many reasons why I don't rate him at all.
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I thought you don't believe in stats?
 
Zaz said:
Are you trying to say his stats are inflated due to playing non minnows

If thats your point think again He avges in the early 20s against non minnows combined too, so that basis of argument is rubbish
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Did I use the word "stats"?

I just referred to the FACT that he has faced weak opposition in almost half of his matches and therefore he has a lot to prove.

Both Bhuvi and Junaid unproven and have a long, long way to go which is why this comparison is not stupid at all. Its a good one.
 
Mamoon_ said:
Neither is Junaid a regular. I've lost count of the number of times he has been benched.
Click to expand...

Junaid always play ODIs and Tests when needed (he missed a dead rubber against SA). PCB got criticized for giving too many games to Mohammad Irfan which lead to his injury so its good to see that they are responding by benching Junaid in dead rubbers.

Junaid always bails us out in the last over and has an amazing average of around 23 in ODIs. There is no comparison dude.
 
Typical Indian, referring to him as 'Bhuvi', do you also call Ganguly 'Dada'? Stop trolling you fool, Junaid is miles ahead and that's a fact. You will soon admit it, same way you had to admit it with Ajmal you Indian troll. But if 'Bhuvi' is soooo good with the new ball and can swing and seam it, why did he get absolutely tonked in South Africa and this year? He had once series against our brittle batting line up yet you hail him as the next best thing since sliced bread.
 
awaisrehman said:
I discussed this already, when Junaid has to bowl to defend low totals posted by our poor batting lineup you can't expect him to do anything especially as the batting team didn't need to take an unnecessary risks, surprising you didn't know that since you 'don't believe in stats'.
Click to expand...

So all the class bowlers take wickets only because the opposition attack them?

Well he has played many ODIs, just as much as B. Kumar actually. Yet has picked up almost twice the number of wickets against quality sides like SA.
Click to expand...

back to "stats" again, he had a better average and economy rate than Junaid before the Australian series. What do you have to say about that?

I thought you don't believe in stats?
Click to expand...

I don't. They are misleading. But do they lie? to an extent only.

A batsman who averages 50 cannot be rubbish regardless of everything and a bowler who averages 23 like Junaid is not a bad bowler at all, in fact he's a good bowler.

Both Junaid and Bhuvi are good young bowlers and they have the ability and attitude to have a respectable career. But world class? no, neither of them by a long shot.
 
awaisrehman said:
Typical Indian, referring to him as 'Bhuvi', do you also call Ganguly 'Dada'? Stop trolling you fool, Junaid is miles ahead and that's a fact. You will soon admit it, same way you had to admit it with Ajmal you Indian troll. But if 'Bhuvi' is soooo good with the new ball and can swing and seam it, why did he get absolutely tonked in South Africa and this year? He had once series against our brittle batting line up yet you hail him as the next best thing since sliced bread.
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:facepalm:

His full name Bhunveshwar Kumar is too long and Bhuvi is shorter than B Kumar which I normally use.
 
If you don't consider Junaid the most special young bowler in the universe, you are either Indian or an Amir fan boy :91:
 
Mamoon_ said:
If you don't consider Junaid the most special young bowler in the universe, you are either Indian or an Amir fan boy :91:
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Nope, the fact you are contradictory in your statements by either calling Junaid mediocre but then comparing him to B. Kumar (whom you say is special). Clear signs of your Indian heritage.
 
Mamoon_ said:
Did I use the word "stats"?

I just referred to the FACT that he has faced weak opposition in almost half of his matches and therefore he has a lot to prove.

Both Bhuvi and Junaid unproven and have a long, long way to go which is why this comparison is not stupid at all. Its a good one.
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Its is stupid because one is bowling well, winning matches for his team and the leader of the pack whereas the other doesnt have as good stats and isnt even in the team currently lol
 
awaisrehman said:
Nope, the fact you are contradictory in your statements by either calling Junaid mediocre but then comparing him to B. Kumar (whom you say is special). Clear signs of your Indian heritage.
Click to expand...

Special?

LOL, He is hardly special. Just a decent young bowler like Junaid. Both have different attributes. Depends on what you prefer.
 
Re: Junaid Khan Vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

Zaz said:
Its is stupid because one is bowling well, winning matches for his team and the leader of the pack whereas the other doesnt have as good stats and isnt even in the team currently lol
Click to expand...

Add to that, specially in a weak bowling attack. Where thiers not many good bowlers around who could possibly compete with you.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
 
Mamoon_ said:
So all the class bowlers take wickets only because the opposition attack them?
Click to expand...

Nope, but when batsman are taking risk free singles and only have to chase 150, you can't expect a bowler to pick up wickets. Simple logic, don't need to explain that further.

When Australia are chasing 350 and swinging for the fences, you could have expected B. Kumar to at least pick up a wicket being caught in the deep but he still couldn't manage that


Mamoon_ said:
back to "stats" again, he had a better average and economy rate than Junaid before the Australian series. What do you have to say about that?
Click to expand...

Jamshed averaged higher than Dhawan at one point but isn't a better batsman than him, what do you say about that? Now that Junaid and B. Kumar have played more matches you have a bigger sample. If someone averages 100 after 2 games are you going to say he is better than Bradman?

But it's not even specific stats, I am talking about wickets and average to a certain extent. You are trying to imply that 5 matches against Australia on flat wickets is the reason J. Khan has picked up almost twice the number of wickets as B. Kumar at an amazingly higher average this year.



Mamoon_ said:
A batsman who averages 50 cannot be rubbish regardless of everything and a bowler who averages 23 like Junaid is not a bad bowler at all, in fact he's a good bowler.

Both Junaid and Bhuvi are good young bowlers and they have the ability and attitude to have a respectable career. But world class? no, neither of them by a long shot.
Click to expand...

Jamshed averaged 50 if you don't recall? But I know you will say it is small sample size that is boosted by playing against India, but funnily enough same with B. Kumar. Take out stats against Pakistan.

End of discussion, you are a waste of time to talk to. Only a fool would compare Junaid Khan with a malnourished stick. Heck even Umar Akmal is better than Kohli, Akmal scored a debut test century against New Zealand in New Zealand and it is higher than any of Kohli's test scores LOOL :)))
 
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awaisrehman said:
Nope, but when batsman are taking risk free singles and only have to chase 150, you can't expect a bowler to pick up wickets. Simple logic, don't need to explain that further.

When Australia are chasing 350 and swinging for the fences, you could have expected B. Kumar to at least pick up a wicket being caught in the deep but he still couldn't manage that




Jamshed averaged higher than Dhawan at one point but isn't a better batsman than him, what do you say about that? Now that Junaid and B. Kumar have played more matches you have a bigger sample. If someone averages 100 after 2 games are you going to say he is better than Bradman?

But it's not even specific stats, I am talking about wickets and average to a certain extent. You are trying to imply that 5 matches against Australia on flat wickets is the reason J. Khan has picked up almost twice the number of wickets as B. Kumar at an amazingly higher average this year.





Jamshed averaged 50 if you don't recall? But I know you will say it is small sample size that is boosted by playing against India, but funnily enough same with B. Kumar. Take out stats against Pakistan.

End of discussion. You are a waste of time to talk to. Only a fool would compare them. Heck even Umar Akmal is better than Kohli, Akmal scored a debut test century against Australia in Australia and it is higher than any of Kohli's test scores LOOL :)))
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Check again.
 
Joke of a comparison really. Bk can't get into a bowling side like India's. That tells a lot doesn't it?
 
Haroon786 said:
Check again.
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Corrected. All this talk about B. Kumar stats being sooo affected by the Australia series has made me only think of that team. With his logic it's saying that B. Kumar should have picked up 16 wickets in 5 matches against another opposition.
 
Anfield said:
Joke of a comparison really. Bk can't get into a bowling side like India's. That tells a lot doesn't it?
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LOL exactly. But but B. Kumar can seam + swing the new ball, so he should be deadly in South African conditions. Maybe Dhoni wanted to give SA a chance?
 
we all saw how deadly he was with the new ball in SA where Amla and de Kock both were scoring tone for fun.

Pathetic wannabes are pathetic wannabes.
 
I thought Kumar getting dropped for Ishant and Yadav was the end of this thread. Junaid is miles better than the garbage that is Sharma and Kumar isn't even considered to be better than him so how in the world are people still defending him?
 
Bilal7 said:
I thought Kumar getting dropped for Ishant and Yadav was the end of this thread. Junaid is miles better than the garbage that is Sharma and Kumar isn't even considered to be better than him so how in the world are people still defending him?
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Because some people have been putting up this ridiculous charade of being Pakistani when they are actually Indian. The one thing they have never had is bowlers so once they had someone who had 1 good series against the likes of Kamran Akmal and Hafeez, they automatically label them as the next best thing in world cricket.

But of course inevitably the bowlers fail like we have witnessed in the past with Irfan Pathan, Pisshant Sharma, More-hit Sharma, Unadkat :))) :))) but some Indian posters find it too difficult to accept and become in denial.

But yes when you aren't good enough to make the starting XI of the worst bowling attack in the world in South African conditions, you know you should take up another career.
 
Bilal7 said:
I thought Kumar getting dropped for Ishant and Yadav was the end of this thread. Junaid is miles better than the garbage that is Sharma and Kumar isn't even considered to be better than him so how in the world are people still defending him?
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Kumar getting dropped for Ishant is like Junaid getting dropped for Tanvir/Wahab and we've seen that quite often haven't we?

Players don't have a say in selection.
 
Mamoon_ said:
Kumar getting dropped for Ishant is like Junaid getting dropped for Tanvir/Wahab and we've seen that quite often haven't we?

Players don't have a say in selection.
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No, we have not. Junaid has been the first name on the tests sheet with saeed ajmal for the past couple of years.
 
The funny thing is we have been ignoring test performances.

Junaid Khan: 13 tests, 42 wickets, 29.19 average, 2.91 economy, 3 five wicket hauls
B. Kumar: 6 tests, 9 wickets, 37.88 average, 3.27 economy, 0 five wicket hauls

Wonder what a certain posters excuse is for his absolutely poor test stats. Considering B. Kumar is said to be the second coming of Asif and P. Kumar and can apparently control swing + seam at will with the new ball.

Just cannot comprehend how this thread is even made. B. Kumar hasn't picked up a wicket an innings yet Junaid has picked up almost 2 every innings. WOW :)))
 
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Mamoon_ said:
Kumar getting dropped for Ishant is like Junaid getting dropped for Tanvir/Wahab and we've seen that quite often haven't we?

Players don't have a say in selection.
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Tanvir and Wahab are prefered frot heir batting-ability because of how poor we are in that department. Ishant is preferred over Kumar solely on his bowling ability and India even sacrificed Kumar's batting. That is the difference.

Plus, when was the last time Juni was dropped from ODIs?
 
Junaid just showed his class again with this chandimal wicket that was a brilliant delivery :bow:
 
That was a great delivery, brought back memories of 2012.

Junaid is good with the oldish ball and Misbah holding him back makes sense.
 
Well,I am not comparing them but I have to say this-

If you can't get into the Indian bowling line-up,you know that you aren't something special.:yk
 
With the old ball in these conditions he will destroy the sri lankans come the Test matches. As a batsmen you can not do much when ball the comes in at 140 or leaves you.
 
Well, 2 more wickets today.

That was his spell in the previous/2nd ODI, waiting for BeeKay to pull that out in the latter part of the innings (I can tell you that the first delivery is impossible for BeeKay, seam bowling at +140kph)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/V_dQbZIeksc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Bhuvi Can,t not even Make in indian team

and Bowler,s like Ishant is Playing ahead of Him

That,s show How Much MSD Rate Bhuvi
 
Mods please close this thread. It may cause embarrassment and discomfort to The Indian bowler mentioned in title being compared to a player on a different level to him. He is a decent new ball bowler but that's all. Masha Allah Junaid is a potential Great.
 
akheR said:
Well, 2 more wickets today.

That was his spell in the previous/2nd ODI, waiting for BeeKay to pull that out in the latter part of the innings (I can tell you that the first delivery is impossible for BeeKay, seam bowling at +140kph)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/V_dQbZIeksc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Click to expand...

His full toss No ball was 91Mph lol
 
Junaid now is the third highest wicket taker in 2013.

15rmuc6.png


Needs 5 more in two matches to go past Jadeja in 2nd place.
 
~Red Devil~ said:
Junaid now is the third highest wicket taker in 2013.

15rmuc6.png


Needs 5 more in two matches to go past Jadeja in 2nd place.
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not fair Jadeja has had so much more innings. But oh well JK will still beat him to show the contrast between their standard of bowlers and ours. PAKISTAN ZINDABAD
 
Junaid highest wicket taker from both sides even on flat pitches!!!

how many wickets beekay took in that flat track series again australia :)))


close this thread please!!! you are insulting junaid!!!
 
Mobashir said:
And what if Junaid performed today? It's just one match - Mamoon.
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You think he is the only one? People would gladly drop Junaid if their fixer comes back into the team.

Had Junaid been from anywhere else, people would have overhyped him till no ends on here
 
People who compare Junaid and BK are very biased. If BK can bowl about 20 kmph faster; then yes - he will be comparable.

Junaid is a MUCH better bowler. In fact he is better than ANY Indian bowler from the last few years. Heck, among Indian pacers only Javagal Srinath, Kapil Dev and Zaheer Khan in his prime are better than Junaid Khan. He is THAT good. If Junaid Khan was playing for India, we could almost be certain of WC 2015.
 
Mobashir said:
And what if Junaid performed today? It's just one match - Mamoon.
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13 wickets in this series with average of 15 for junaid and pitches were flat. I still remember mamoon saying beekay remained wicketless in that australia series because of flat pitches :))

Well beekay is still a better bowler because of swing and tools and and all the tool boxes!!!
 
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