Junaid Khan vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

[tempus123]

It's their bowling in the last 3-4 months. Junaid looks nothing like what I was expecting before. If you actually watched their cricket, you would know what I mean.

Besides, Bhuvi has played only 4 Test, and all of them were India-Aus I guess. Hardly got a chance to bowl because the pitches were so much in favor of Jadeja and Ashwin. He wasn't even needed.

Praveen Kumar had far better Test stats than the legendary teenage prodigy Amir. Does that mean a thing ???
Let them play 10-15 Tests, and then do a comparison. The only worthy comparison for now is ODIs. As I said, Junaid is bowling like a trundler for an extended period now.

Fair enough. But we need to change the thread discussion to ODIs only. Test comparison doesn't even make any sense as Bhuvi hasn't played enough sample.

 

[Electron]

Fair enough. But we need to change the thread discussion to ODIs only. Test comparison doesn't even make any sense as Bhuvi hasn't played enough sample.

Exactly.

 

[amax]

It's their bowling in the last 3-4 months. Junaid looks nothing like what I was expecting before. If you actually watched their cricket, you would know what I mean.

Besides, Bhuvi has played only 4 Test, and all of them were India-Aus I guess. Hardly got a chance to bowl because the pitches were so much in favor of Jadeja and Ashwin. He wasn't even needed.

Praveen Kumar had far better Test stats than the legendary teenage prodigy Amir. Does that mean a thing ???
Let them play 10-15 Tests, and then do a comparison. The only worthy comparison for now is ODIs. As I said, Junaid is bowling like a trundler for an extended period now.

These are observations about talent that are usually based on experience from watching cricket. Usually bowlers who are quick through the air and swing it late are rated highly, both amir and Junaid swing it late , while Kumars(praveen, bkumar) swing it straight out of hand. You can see that many experts praise Juniad highly like Gavasker, Bishop on the other hand despite all his performances Bkumar get applauds like he is hardworking, can be efective if conditions suits him etc etc.

 

[tempus123]

These are observations about talent that are usually based on experience from watching cricket. Usually bowlers who are quick through the air and swing it late are rated highly, both amir and Junaid swing it late , while Kumars(praveen, bkumar) swing it straight out of hand. You can see that many experts praise Juniad highly like Gavasker, Bishop on the other hand despite all his performances Bkumar get applauds like he is hardworking, can be efective if conditions suits him etc etc.

Finally the performance counts. McGrath wasn't the most exciting or pleasure to watch bowler, but I will put my neck out and say he was more successful than Wasim and Waqar who I will pay to watch.

 

[Electron]

These are observations about talent that are usually based on experience from watching cricket. Usually bowlers who are quick through the air and swing it late are rated highly, both amir and Junaid swing it late , while Kumars(praveen, bkumar) swing it straight out of hand. You can see that many experts praise Juniad highly like Gavasker, Bishop on the other hand despite all his performances Bkumar get applauds like he is hardworking, can be efective if conditions suits him etc etc.

B.Kumar ODIs in India - Impressive
In England - Very impressive
In West Indies - Very impressive again.
He has done well in most conditions as you can see.

As for Junaid, I do rate him high. But for a bowler who showed such skills in Sri Lanaka and India, I find it extremely disappointing the way he has progressed since then. Hence my reluctance to rate him higher than Bhuvi. I hope it sounds reasonable.

End of the year will probably give us a better idea about comparisons I think. From what I have seen, Junaid really needs to pick his game up.

 

[amax]

Finally the performance counts. McGrath wasn't the most exciting or pleasure to watch bowler, but I will put my neck out and say he was more successful than Wasim and Waqar who I will pay to watch.

Mcgrath was very tall, as I have said earlier somewhere sub 25 avg club has only two types of bowlers one who are very tall and hit the deck hard at good pace and others who are lightening quick through air. BTW the debate b/w wasim ,waqar and Mcgrath is for another thread I have my own arguments like wasim waqar having almost twice the number of 10fers in considerable less matches.

 

[amax]

B.Kumar ODIs in India - Impressive
In England - Very impressive
In West Indies - Very impressive again.
He has done well in most conditions as you can see.

As for Junaid, I do rate him high. But for a bowler who showed such skills in Sri Lanaka and India, I find it extremely disappointing the way he has progressed since then. Hence my reluctance to rate him higher than Bhuvi. I hope it sounds reasonable.

End of the year will probably give us a better idea about comparisons I think. From what I have seen, Junaid really needs to pick his game up.

i was talking from experts perspective, I found that experts are always reluctant of rating him.

 

[Indiafan]

These are observations about talent that are usually based on experience from watching cricket. Usually bowlers who are quick through the air and swing it late are rated highly, both amir and Junaid swing it late , while Kumars(praveen, bkumar) swing it straight out of hand. You can see that many experts praise Juniad highly like Gavasker, Bishop on the other hand despite all his performances Bkumar get applauds like he is hardworking, can be efective if conditions suits him etc etc.

Come on, commentators like Raza, etc were gushing on his performances in CT and afterwards, you must have missed that

And BK also seams the ball ala Asif

 

[amax]

Come on, commentators like Raza, etc were gushing on his performances in CT and afterwards, you must have missed that

And BK also seams the ball ala Asif

CT might have changed opinions but what I have heard from tone of Imran and warne, they were bit cynical between the lines, saying that only time will tell.

 

[Anfield]

It's really idiotic for people to keep bringing up Junaid's SAF record. He played only one test there and bowled brilliantly in that without much luck. If had anyone actually seen the match he/she would know what I am talking about.

 

[Electron]

It's really idiotic for people to keep bringing up Junaid's SAF record. He played only one test there and bowled brilliantly in that without much luck. If had anyone actually seen the match he/she would know what I am talking about.

And this is Cricket. Players do go out of luck at times. Trust me, it's not a phenomena exclusive to Pakistan. Ask Ishant fanboys

 

[Anfield]

And this is Cricket. Players do go out of luck at times. Trust me, it's not a phenomena exclusive to Pakistan. Ask Ishant fanboys

Who said it's exclusive to Pakistan? What a pathetic example. I am talking about 1 match and you're talking about a players career. If you find yourself out luck for your whole career then something is definitely wrong with you.

 

[Electron]

Who said it's exclusive to Pakistan? What a pathetic example. I am talking about 1 match and you're talking about a players career. If you find yourself out luck for your whole career then something is definitely wrong with you.

But in comparison thread, this does come across as a vague argument.

 

[Anfield]

But in comparison thread, this does come across as a vague argument.

Not if a sample size is of 1 test and the first test of a bowler in alien conditions against the best side of the world.

 

[tempus123]

Mcgrath was very tall, as I have said earlier somewhere sub 25 avg club has only two types of bowlers one who are very tall and hit the deck hard at good pace and others who are lightening quick through air. BTW the debate b/w wasim ,waqar and Mcgrath is for another thread I have my own arguments like wasim waqar having almost twice the number of 10fers in considerable less matches.

These are reasons of his success, there are lot of tall fast bowlers who weren't successful. Anyway, finally the opinion/predictions are only that, it's the performance which counts. I wouldn't grudge a Dravid who scored hardworkingly against a Tendulkar who batted sublimely.

It's the ultimate contribution to the team and runs you score against tough bowling which counts, whatever method one uses.

 

[Electron]

Not if a sample size is of 1 test and the first test of a bowler in alien conditions against the best side of the world.

1 Test is still 10% of Junaids entire Test career. Add Tests in Zimambwe, and that makes 40% of Junaid's Test caps.

I am not sure how we can afford to ignore 1 Test when the overall sample size is so small. As I said before, these comparisons don't mean a thing right now, specially in Test. Wouldn't be fair on both the bowlers.

 

[Anfield]

1 Test is still 10% of Junaids entire Test career. Add Tests in Zimambwe, and that makes 40% of Junaid's Test caps.

I am not sure how we can afford to ignore 1 Test when the overall sample size is so small. As I said before, these comparisons don't mean a thing right now, specially in Test. Wouldn't be fair on both the bowlers.

That's why you have to look beyond the stats and actually watch the game or watch a bowler bowl to see how his career might roll.

This is what Firdose Moonda said after day/1st Innings.
"Junaid's opening exchanges were the most impressive. He moved the ball both ways for six overs, gave away just four runs but did not take a wicket. In that first spell, Sarfraz Ahmed told Junaid to simply keep going with the same intensity and accuracy and a wicket would follow. When he was brought back three overs later, it did."

 

[tempus123]

That's why you have to look beyond the stats and actually watch the game or watch a bowler bowl to see how his career might roll.

This is what Firdose Moonda said after day/1st Innings.
"Junaid's opening exchanges were the most impressive. He moved the ball both ways for six overs, gave away just four runs but did not take a wicket. In that first spell, Sarfraz Ahmed told Junaid to simply keep going with the same intensity and accuracy and a wicket would follow. When he was brought back three overs later, it did."

Seriously, it is too early to jump into predictions on how Junaid will come out finally. I think better comments were made about Ishant Sharma (he had more success too) after his initial years in Test cricket. Next McGrath ? 500 Test wickets ? Better than Steyn ? People predicted it after his 1 wicket spell in Perth, where he bowled exceptionally well to Ponting and Hussey.

 

[Haroon786]

^ Guess India and fast bowling dont go together.

 

[HamzaSaeen]

Re: Junaid Khan Vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

BK would have got 7-fers against this Zim team

Just ifs and buts...

 

[hafizexpress]

Junaid is a far better athlete and seam is what matters alot in fast bowling.
He does a skip in the start of his every ball and thats too tough for a fast bowler!

 

[Haroon786]

I reckon 15 tests later and you will know the difference, admittedly JK wont be potentially an ATG, but who knows? I expect him to be a future great though.

 

[Statistics375]

Junaid is a far better bowler than Kumar though.
Junaid has more pace,more control and more variety, he also does well when the ball is not swinging and he is a much more accomplished Test bowler.

 

[Statistics375]

This thread is a joke.
There is no comparison between Junaid and Kumar, Junaid is far better and is twice the bowler that Kumar can ever hope to be.

 

[Saurav]

No way Philander is 5-9/10.

B Kumar is 5'10" too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhuvneshwar_Kumar

 

[tempus123]

This thread is a joke.
There is no comparison between Junaid and Kumar, Junaid is far better and is twice the bowler that Kumar can ever hope to be.

You realize both haven't played enough Test cricket and in ODIs Bhuvneshwar has better record till now, when you say "Junaid is twice the bowler bhuvi can ever hope to be".

 

[Haroon786]

Lol

 

[Aman]

B Kumar is 5'10" too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhuvneshwar_Kumar

Don't believe wikipedia, Umar is 157cm according to wikipedia

 

[Haroon786]

Don't believe wikipedia, Umar is 157cm according to wikipedia

What?

 

[LegendAli]

WOW What a slap in the face to junni to be compared to B.Kumar.

 

[leatherface58]

Re: Junaid Khan Vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

Do people want bk to fail? That's the vibe I get on this forum.

 

[JibranAnsari]

B kumar is a batter odi bowler as it stands and a more economical bowler as well.

 

[battler]

Do people want bk to fail? That's the vibe I get on this forum.

After all how could they tolerate an indian bowler becoming better than a pakistani one

 

[Haroon786]

After all how could they tolerate an indian bowler becoming better than a pakistani one

The fact is that he isn't better.

 

[battler]

The fact is that he isn't better.

Well that's ur opinion.

 

[Haroon786]

Thread should be locked til they have both played enough tests to be compared.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Test cricket is the real deal , until bhuv performs in test cricket junaid remains better.

 

[battler]

thread should be locked til they have both played enough tests to be compared.

+1

 

[Aman]

What?

This

 

[HASHAM2]

All tests were against Aus on dead Indian pitches.

Just look at the averages of Starc, Pattinson, Johnson, Siddle etc on the same pitches. Every fast bowler struggled in that series.

Only Pattinson has some success (due to his pace) and spinners succeeded.

Junaid khan would not have done squat when Siddle or Starc or Johnson or Pattinson struggled.

Mohli Wicket was not Died and flat for pacers

 

[HASHAM2]

B.Kumar 4 test 6 Wickets,s
Rahat ali 4 Test,s 12 wickets,

Rahat ali is better than B,Kumar

 

[Noobosauras]

Don't believe wikipedia, Umar is 157cm according to wikipedia

Bhuvi looks as tall as Kolhi in matches. Kolhi is 5'11''.
A long time ago, when Orkut was new and all profiles were open, Kolhi I remember had given his height as 5'11'' in personality section.

 

[Aman]

Bhuvi looks as tall as Kolhi in matches. Kolhi is 5'11''.
A long time ago, when Orkut was new and all profiles were open, Kolhi I remember had given his height as 5'11'' in personality section.

Kohli isn't 5 foot 11

Clarke is 5 foot 10 and he's taller than Kohli

 

[JibranAnsari]

Kohli isn't 5 foot 11

Clarke is 5 foot 10 and he's taller than Kohli

Kohli is 5 9 , even with naked eye you can observe that he is not 5 11

 

[Noobosauras]

Kohli isn't 5 foot 11

Clarke is 5 foot 10 and he's taller than Kohli

Well there is no point arguing about it.
Not something we can verify.
As far as I feel, Bhuvi is 5'9''-5'10'' definitely.

 

[HASHAM2]

What the hell people under rate Juniad khan so much
Ishant 51 test,s 3 five wicket haul
Junaid 11 test,s 3 five wicket haul

compare Rahat test stats with B,Kumar test stats

 

[Noobosauras]

What the hell people under rate Juniad khan so much
Ishant 51 test,s 3 five wicket haul
Junaid 11 test,s 3 five wicket haul

compare Rahat test stats with B,Kumar test stats

Funny that you had to compare your Amir replacement to Ishitnt Sharma

 

[HASHAM2]

Funny that you had to compare your Amir replacement to Ishitnt Sharma

when Junaid will play 51 test matches he will take 8-10 Five wicket,s haul for sure

 

[Electron]

Let me end the height debate here.
Dhoni is marginally taller than LALA
Kohli is as tall as Dhoni.

Lala is about 6, so Kohli, Bhuvi are 5'11 minimum.

 

[Aman]

Michael Hussey is 5 foot 11 and he is taller than every one you just mentioned...

Are Afridi, MSD and Kohli taller than Hussey? No.

 

[Noobosauras]

LALA is not 6. LALA is around 5'10'', Dhoni is 5'9''+ and so is Bhuvi

 

[Noobosauras]

Michael Hussey is 5 foot 11 and he is taller than every one you just mentioned...

Are Afridi, MSD and Kohli taller than Hussey? No.

He is marginally taller than Dhoni for sure, which is about right as we discussed above.

 

[Aman]

Dhoni looks 5'9-5'10 to me, so that would put BK around the same range.

 

[Noobosauras]

Dhoni looks 5'9-5'10 to me, so that would put BK around the same range.

Thats what I said a couple of posts earlier.

 

[Aman]

Thats what I said a couple of posts earlier.

I was just pointing it out to Electron

 

[Varun]

Why has this conversation veered in the direction of players' heights again?

 

[Electron]

I was just pointing it out to Electron

I am 5'9, and never thought I was remotely as tall as them. If true, I'll take those heights.

 

[Electron]

Why has this conversation veered in the direction of players' heights again?

No idea.. I just joined the chorus.

 

[Varun]

Ishant Sharma is as tall as a tree, before any of you say anything.

 

[Noobosauras]

Ishant Sharma is as tall as a tree, before any of you say anything.

Lets not talk about Sharmaji plz

 

[Aman]

You don't need height to be successful. Steyn isn't the tallest going around and look at him.

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

Dhoni looks 5'9-5'10 to me, so that would put BK around the same range.

Exact stats on google...

Dhoni
Born: July 7, 1981 (age 32), Ranchi, India
Height: 1.75 m
Born: November 5, 1988 (age 24), Delhi, India
Height: 1.75 m
Hussey
Born: May 27, 1975 (age 38), Mount Lawley, Australia
Height: 1.80 m
Afridi
Born: March 1, 1980 (age 33), Khyber Agency
Height: 1.82 m

 

[Aman]

Exact stats on google...

Dhoni
Born: July 7, 1981 (age 32), Ranchi, India
Height: 1.75 m
Born: November 5, 1988 (age 24), Delhi, India
Height: 1.75 m
Hussey
Born: May 27, 1975 (age 38), Mount Lawley, Australia
Height: 1.80 m
Afridi
Born: March 1, 1980 (age 33), Khyber Agency
Height: 1.82 m

Cricinfo has the legit heights.

 

[HamzaSaeen]

What a derail!

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

JK: Born: December 24, 1989 (age 23), Swabi, Pakistan
Height: 1.85 m

BK:
Born: December 5, 1990 (age 22), Bulandshahr, India
Height: 1.78 m

Steyn:
Born: June 27, 1983 (age 30), Phalaborwa, South Africa
Height: 1.79 m

 

[Noobosauras]

Can we come back to Jk vs BK as Bowlers?

 

[Aman]

Can we come back to Jk vs BK as Bowlers?

// BK is better at present

 

[amax]

Afridi is 5-10
and waqar is no more than 5-10-5-11

I have met both of them in person

---------------------------------------------------.
These are my guesses from TV broadcasts.
Dhoni is in 5-10-5-11 range

Kohli and Bkumar are roundabout 5-9

 

[Noobosauras]

// BK is better at present

Agreed for ODIs.
For tests lets wait for BK to play ateast 10-12 tests before we judge him.

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

Cricinfo has the legit heights.

Actually google search gives the persons details on right. And it has to be legit if its google telling. You are right...
Steyn and BK has same heights... 179/178
Waqar was 183 compared to Junaids 185... So Junaid is tallest.....

 

[Noobosauras]

Actually google search gives the persons details on right. And it has to be legit if its google telling. You are right...
Steyn and BK has same heights... 179/178
Waqar was 183 compared to Junaids 185... So Junaid is tallest.....

LoL! the right panel details are lifted from Wiki unless for movies its lifted from IMDB.
Anyone can edit wiki.

By the way, same right hand panel says Umesh Yadav is 6'2'' which is certainly not true.

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

LoL! the right panel details are lifted from Wiki unless for movies its lifted from IMDB.
Anyone can edit wiki.

By the way, same right hand panel says Umesh Yadav is 6'2'' which is certainly not true.

OK. Thanks for info..
but Wiki is not a misinformation site....

 

[Aman]

OK. Thanks for info..
but Wiki is not a misinformation site....

Any one can edit it, I find out the hard way for my year 10 speech...

Sikhism the second biggest religion in the world.. I should have known better

 

[GreenKnightRises]

Ohh God.., got into a wrong thread. why am I reading all these heights stuffs...

I misunderstood this one for Junaid Vs Bhuvaneshwar thread.

 

[TonyStark]

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

Why has this conversation veered in the direction of players' heights again?

B Kumar would struggle in tests. I had be very surprised if he does well in tests. With his height and pace he won't trouble many batsmen.

Pace without height means a fail in tests... Thats what fans think......

 

[Haroon786]

Im 6'2.

 

[HASHAM2]

Im 6'2.

Iam 6,2 inch or 3

Tall among all Cousins

 

[Haroon786]

Iam 6,2 inch or 3

Tall among all Cousins

My cousin and uncle are 6,6'/7'

 

[akheR]

Pace without height means a fail in tests... Thats what fans think......

He's a swing bowler, height is not that important but (lack of) pace definitely is so yes in Tests I don't see him successful (even in SA mind you, and Smith hit the likes of Anderson - amongst the best swing bowlers today - for fun, and that away too.)