Junaid Khan vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

[HamzaSaeen]

Oh C'mmon...you can do better than this my friend
Trolling is not your forte

Trolling is your forte I am serious

 

[Rockstar]

Trolling is your forte I am serious

Then answer me in all seriousness - Why the great bowler like junaid could avg 102 and mediocre bowler like Bhuv bowled like a champion in the same tourney?

 

[HamzaSaeen]

Then answer me in all seriousness - Why the great bowler like junaid could avg 102 and mediocre bowler like Bhuv bowled like a champion in the same tourney?

again, 3 matches is not enough to judge a player(s).

 

[amax]

Lol what are you talking...I can't stop laughing....Is that Lahori logic????
Look at Bhuvi's first class career...The guy has played 50 matches, took 155 wickets with 26 average on flat roads where Indian batsman scores double triple centuries in a match :Jadeja

Have a look at it - http://www.espncricinfo.com/tri-nation-west-indies-2013/content/player/326016.html

What is Lahori logic???

My point is that to be good test fast bowler( avg at least under 29, str rate under 55, with decent 5fers ) generally you require to swing it at good pace, unless you are extremely tall. Bkumar seems to lack these skills. By the way his FC record is decent but no 10fers.

 

[Rockstar]

again, 3 matches is not enough to judge a player(s).

But you already judging that Junaid is better than Bhuv.
I am asking why and how? Again based on 3 matches in India
I understand you like Junaid and I have no problem with that. But saying Junaid is better bowler than Bhuvi is a joke

 

[HamzaSaeen]

But you already judging that Junaid is better than Bhuv.
I am asking why and how? Again 3 matches in India
I understand you like Junaid and I have no problem with that. But saying Junaid is better bowler than Bhuvi is a joke

based on more matches than just 3.
much much better in test cricket, there is no comparison there.

 

[Rockstar]

based on more matches than just 3.
much much better in test cricket, there is no comparison there.

And in ODI's?

 

[HamzaSaeen]

And in ODI's?

ODIs there is a comparison, but Junaid is still ahead.

 

[Rockstar]

ODIs there is a comparison, but Junaid is still ahead.

So let me understand this:
Both Bhuv and Junaid played their 1st Global tournament, and Bhuvi perform head an shoulder ahead of Junaid
Bhuvi recently won man of the series but Junaid has none.
Junaid had a great India series...but in the same series Bhuvi bowled superbly too...so not much difference.

But Still Junaid Khan is better? If thats fanboyism...I dont mind

 

[MJcricket]

I think he might own WI like he owned India.

India owns the whole world right now. No one does and will own India. And you know that. However, it does not hurt dreaming.

 

[HamzaSaeen]

So let me understand this:
Both Bhuv and Junaid played their 1st Global tournament, and Bhuvi perform head an shoulder ahead of Junaid
Bhuvi recently won man of the series but Junaid has none.
Junaid had a great India series...but in the same series Bhuvi bowled superbly too...so not much difference.

But Still Junaid Khan is better? If thats fanboyism...I dont mind

its not fanboyism.
Junaid has far more pace. Can bowl at any time in the game regardless of the situation, whether it be death overs or the first 10. not like Bhuvvayyy who chickens out from death overs ) Also, will not be toothless when the ball doesn't swing, unlike Bhuvaayy
MOMs and MOSs don't judge players!
After all, a player like Afridi has most MOM awards for Pakistan.

 

[Rockstar]

its not fanboyism.
Junaid has far more pace. Can bowl at any time in the game regardless of the situation, whether it be death overs or the first 10. not like Bhuvvayyy who chickens out from death overs ) Also, will not be toothless when the ball doesn't swing, unlike Bhuvaayy
MOMs and MOSs don't judge players!
After all, a player like Afridi has most MOM awards for Pakistan.

But in Champions trophy also bowl didn't swing...and Bhuvi outperformed Junaid. Correct no?
And lol at MOS dosent mean anything but just because a bowler has more pace he is a better bowler...ahahahaha
And then we Indians dont understand bowling

 

[hur rizvi]

B.Kumar is a decent ODI bowler, but In tests what would he do when swing would vanish, he doesnt have pace to get the ball to reverse swing nor has he got the ability to bounce people out so overall Junaid would be much more preferable for any cricket pundit....

In ODIs thus far BK has out-performed junaid but not by much, and I think we have to wait and see who is better coz difference in their ODI stats isnt much really....

 

[gabbarsingh]

B Kumar has swung the ball and got early wickets even when other bowlers have looked ordinary. He has been crucial for getting top order batsmen out in most games and putting them on back foot straight away and one of the big reasons for India's success recently.

He has done it in India, England, West Indies - all different conditions. He has a good action which allows the ball to move and its his action where the trick lies and not necessarily the conditions. He is also very intelligent and knows how to set up a batsman. He learnt this by bowling match after match on flat pancake wickets in India and has an average of 25 there.

I dont think he should lose whatever he has now by striving for extra pace. Just keep doing whatever he is doing and keep learning and add more skills to his armory.

 

[vicky_iisc]

Again it wasn't a Pak fan page which uploaded the picture, it was a neutral page.

I saw the discussion on this very forum ...

Come on.. if Junaid hadn't had a poor CT (it does not make him a bad bowler overnight), the 3 match sample would have been enough for many Pakistani fans..

I argued then also (before CT), that 3 match is not good enough sample, and the counter to that was the "fact is Junaid owned Kohli"...

Unfortunately the same posters did not appear after CT.. I am sure if CT had 2 matches, people would say 2 matches is not enough, but 3 is.. but fortunately CT also had 3 matches for sample.

 

[vicky_iisc]

its not fanboyism.
Junaid has far more pace. Can bowl at any time in the game regardless of the situation, whether it be death overs or the first 10. not like Bhuvvayyy who chickens out from death overs ) Also, will not be toothless when the ball doesn't swing, unlike Bhuvaayy
MOMs and MOSs don't judge players!
After all, a player like Afridi has most MOM awards for Pakistan.

Afridi gets MOMs for his all round performance most of the time.. 2 wickets and 30 runs etc..

Bhuvi got them purely on his bowling.. so this argument does not hold true.

I still feel Junaid is perhaps a better prospect.

 

[Singham]

People who are talking abt Bhuvi's pace have no idea how many ipl games he played prior to CT and WI tour matches. He and the other players were tired after so many ipl games. He s been rested for Zimbabwe tour and now . You will see him clocking 135+ after this break.

 

[Sandeep]

Some of the arguments here made are really worth

It's still early days in their careers.. But Junaid Khan seems set to be a longterm prospect. One has to understand that B.Kumar was brought into the Indian team as an 'allrounder', but boy, isn't he bowling beautifully! And it's not Kumar's mistake that Dhoni is using him straight for 10 overs. Instead of ridiculing Kumar, one has to praise the audacity of Dhoni in this context. Pakistan have many bowlers who could bowl in the death and Misbah can afford to use Junaid at the top for straight 10. With 2 new balls ODI rule, Dhoni is able to afford this luxury. If only 1 ball was used, Bhuvi would have definitely bowled in the death.

 

[ahmed778]

Nice excuse for the poor perormance. When your batsmen played badly then you can bowl badly too? When indian bowlers gave away 300 odd runs, indian batsmen didnt chase those scores successfully many times. That shows how mentally stronger indian players are.

These aren't excuses this is the reality.

 

[Aman]

Some of the arguments here made are really worth

It's still early days in their careers.. But Junaid Khan seems set to be a longterm prospect. One has to understand that B.Kumar was brought into the Indian team as an 'allrounder', but boy, isn't he bowling beautifully! And it's not Kumar's mistake that Dhoni is using him straight for 10 overs. Instead of ridiculing Kumar, one has to praise the audacity of Dhoni in this context. Pakistan have many bowlers who could bowl in the death and Misbah can afford to use Junaid at the top for straight 10. With 2 new balls ODI rule, Dhoni is able to afford this luxury. If only 1 ball was used, Bhuvi would have definitely bowled in the death.

Well said.

 

[battler]

Bhuvi>junaid in odi's
Junaid>bhuvi in tests atm.
contrary to what many people on this forum who think bhuvi won't be as successful in tests i think he he will manage to do well for himself because he has the most important ingredient to succeed and that is 'a good cricketing brain' pace and height are of no use if u can't use your brain properly.

 

[Sandeep]

B Kumar will boost his test average in the next 2 years as he's going to play on South African and English wickets.. And hopefully, he won't hurt his ankle by slamming it to the door )

 

[battler]

B Kumar will boost his test average in the next 2 years as he's going to play on South African and English wickets.. And hopefully, he won't hurt his ankle by slamming it to the door )

New excuse of pak fans will be that bhuvi has not played in the flat decks of uae,whereas junaid has two 5-wicket hauls in the uae.
So by that argument junaid>bhuvi

 

[Master Blaster]

Buvan is good but i think Juniad is a better bowler.

Junaid is already being compared to Wasim here, such is his promise...

 

[HamzaSaeen]

I saw the discussion on this very forum ...

Come on.. if Junaid hadn't had a poor CT (it does not make him a bad bowler overnight), the 3 match sample would have been enough for many Pakistani fans..

I argued then also (before CT), that 3 match is not good enough sample, and the counter to that was the "fact is Junaid owned Kohli"...

Unfortunately the same posters did not appear after CT.. I am sure if CT had 2 matches, people would say 2 matches is not enough, but 3 is.. but fortunately CT also had 3 matches for sample.

haha that is true.

 

[HamzaSaeen]

Some of the arguments here made are really worth

It's still early days in their careers.. But Junaid Khan seems set to be a longterm prospect. One has to understand that B.Kumar was brought into the Indian team as an 'allrounder', but boy, isn't he bowling beautifully! And it's not Kumar's mistake that Dhoni is using him straight for 10 overs. Instead of ridiculing Kumar, one has to praise the audacity of Dhoni in this context. Pakistan have many bowlers who could bowl in the death and Misbah can afford to use Junaid at the top for straight 10. With 2 new balls ODI rule, Dhoni is able to afford this luxury. If only 1 ball was used, Bhuvi would have definitely bowled in the death.

and why is that?
I've seen a few matches where he has bowled with a relatively old ball at the death, wasn't so successful so Dhoni much rather give him the first 10 to utilize that prodigious amount of swing.

 

[Sandeep]

and why is that?
I've seen a few matches where he has bowled with a relatively old ball at the death, wasn't so successful so Dhoni much rather give him the first 10 to utilize that prodigious amount of swing.

India's team dynamics are different to Pakistan's. You need to understand that first. India will have to get as many wickets as possible in the start otherwise we'll see what happened to us against Sr Lanka a week before. Pakistan's captain has great options in his hands and can get wickets from any of the bowlers. Dhoni just looks at him for wickets and there's great pressure on BK, make no mistake.

 

[Rockstar]

I saw the discussion on this very forum ...

Come on.. if Junaid hadn't had a poor CT (it does not make him a bad bowler overnight), the 3 match sample would have been enough for many Pakistani fans..

I argued then also (before CT), that 3 match is not good enough sample, and the counter to that was the "fact is Junaid owned Kohli"...

Unfortunately the same posters did not appear after CT.. I am sure if CT had 2 matches, people would say 2 matches is not enough, but 3 is.. but fortunately CT also had 3 matches for sample.

No one is saying Junaid is bad...he is a good bowler with 1 bad series - Agree. But how does it make him better bowler than Bhuv who is yet to have a bad series?

 

[Sandeep]

Many a times Lasith Malinga is held back by Lanka's captains to bowl at the death. That doesn't mean he can't be entrusted with the new ball. It's just that he's so good at what he does at the death. Hope I made it clear.

 

[Rockstar]

But I think Pattinson is better than both of them. Superb test match bowler

 

[vicky_iisc]

No one is saying Junaid is bad...he is a good bowler with 1 bad series - Agree. But how does it make him better bowler than Bhuv who is yet to have a bad series?

It is too early to pass the judgment now... let's wait for one two years.

 

[Azzurri]

just wait and watch and judge them after 50 odis and 50 tests apiece...

 

[Mamoon]

India owns the whole world right now. No one does and will own India. And you know that. However, it does not hurt dreaming.

As long as you don't beat us in another bilateral, what I said holds true.

 

[hur rizvi]

just wait and watch and judge them after 50 odis and 50 tests apiece...

50 tests is too much, i would say compare them after 20 tests and 50 ODIs

 

[Snak3eye5]

Bhuvi will get schooled in South Africa. Mark my words. This time next year everyone wil be like Bhuvi who.

 

[spaceshot]

Bhuvi will get schooled in South Africa. Mark my words. This time next year everyone wil be like Bhuvi who.

The 'mark my words' dodo is back!! )

 

[vicky_iisc]

As long as you don't beat us in another bilateral, what I said holds true.

So, according to you 3 match bilateral series was enough to decide "owning" ?

 

[Rockstar]

So, according to you 3 match bilateral series was enough to decide "owning" ?

Mamoon got short memory...he forgot we also beat them in 2004/06 series bth in tests and ODI's in Pakistan. They never hosted us again

 

[Mamoon]

Junaid Khan Vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

Mamoon got short memory...he forgot we also beat them in 2004/06 series bth in tests and ODI's in Pakistan. They never hosted us again

Don't forget what we did to you in the 2005 ODI series in India

Btw, in the final deciding test of the 2006 series in Pakistan, we literally crushed you.

 

[Mamoon]

Junaid Khan Vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

So, according to you 3 match bilateral series was enough to decide "owning" ?

No but it gives us the bragging rights. Rights which we will maintain till you beat us in a bilateral again.

 

[vicky_iisc]

No but it gives us the bragging rights. Rights which we will maintain till you beat us in a bilateral again.

Bragging rights which keep shifting here and there... do you consider CT match as imp enough to shift the right to India ?

Or a sample of the 7 ODIs this decade (2010-) where 5-2 is the result ? Correct me if I am wrong as I didn't look at the record in cricinfo.. just writing from memory.

 

[LethalSami]

JK >>>>>>> Bhuvi

end of discussion

O wait, there was no discussion

O yeah, coz we didn't need one

 

[vicky_iisc]

JK >>>>>>> Bhuvi

end of discussion

O wait, there was no discussion

O yeah, coz we didn't need one

Here comes the final decision by the jury who has had enough of the argument and had to end it. It's his court after all..

 

[Mamoon]

Junaid Khan Vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

Bragging rights which keep shifting here and there... do you consider CT match as imp enough to shift the right to India ?

Or a sample of the 7 ODIs this decade (2010-) where 5-2 is the result ? Correct me if I am wrong as I didn't look at the record in cricinfo.. just writing from memory.

India is the best ODI team going around today but we beat them in our last series. If you expand it to a decade you won but if I expand it further, we have a huge advantage over you in head to head.

 

[vicky_iisc]

India is the best ODI team going around today but we beat them in our last series. If you expand it to a decade you won but if I expand it further, we have a huge advantage over you in head to head.

I am not denying that.. just feel you picked this "bilateral series" only because Pakistan won it. I only took this decade.. because it's recent.. everyone knows overall head-to-head is 71-50.

Suddenly I feel you started giving more imp to bilateral series than ICC tournaments (forget Amla thread ??)

 

[Mamoon]

Junaid Khan Vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

I am not denying that.. just feel you picked this "bilateral series" only because Pakistan won it. I only took this decade.. because it's recent.. everyone knows overall head-to-head is 71-50.

Suddenly I feel you started giving more imp to bilateral series than ICC tournaments (forget Amla thread ??)

The best way to judge two teams is to look at head to head.
We won the last time. End of story.
The Amla case has no relevance here at all.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I feel Junaid looks more lethal and accomplished.

Bhuvi always looks like he could get hit.

]But here's the problem. Looking lethal and being lethal are completely different aspects.


I would say at the moment considering tests and ODI's both bowlers are equal.

Unless someone does manage to say that tests are once and all for cricket.

I do feel, that Junaid tries too hard when things are not going his way. Bhuvi on the other hand, has his deficiencies..

Coming 5-6 months might give us a clearer picture...

Although without bias, if you asked me who do I think would succeed more .. I would say Junaid because of that extra yard of pace.

But once again, being capable and actually doing it is completely different : )

 

[vicky_iisc]

The best way to judge two teams is to look at head to head.
We won the last time. End of story.
The Amla case has no relevance here at all.

head to head in bilateral, that too last one ???

Player has to perform in ICC tournaments to be called great, but teams will be judged on head-to-head in bilaterals ??

What is "last time" .. last time was when they played in CT..

 

[LethalSami]

Here comes the final decision by the jury who has had enough of the argument and had to end it. It's his court after all..

i'm the judge

i'm the jury

and i'm the executioner

problem?

 

[vicky_iisc]

i'm the judge

i'm the jury

and i'm the executioner

problem?

Chill buddy..

 

[Aman]

Waiting for the Amir v Kumar thread

 

[Sandeep]

i'm the judge

i'm the jury

and i'm the executioner

problem?

You think you're cool? )

 

[Chromeuser]

Waiting for the Amir v Kumar thread

We don't compare hard working cricketer with cheats

Also I think if Amir makes comeback in Pakistan team and don't take enough wickets then, PPers will give excuses like it's because of ICC and lack of cricket for 3 years is the reason for his failures

 

[Chromeuser]

What is Lahori logic???

My point is that to be good test fast bowler( avg at least under 29, str rate under 55, with decent 5fers ) generally you require to swing it at good pace, unless you are extremely tall. Bkumar seems to lack these skills. By the way his FC record is decent but no 10fers.

According to you for a bowler to get under 29 avg he has to swing ball at good pace.
Now Bhuvi doen't have pace and has 26 avg in 50 test matches on flat Indian deck...So what you want to tell about Bhuvi now???? Is he great to avg below 26 even without having pace????
And how many 10fer you need from him?? considering our domestic batsman scores 100, 200 runs every other matches.
And please let me know how many 10fers does great fast bowlers had in their careers??

 

[Aman]

We don't compare hard working cricketer with cheats

Also I think if Amir makes comeback in Pakistan team and don't take enough wickets then, PPers will give excuses like it's because of ICC and lack of cricket for 3 years is the reason for his failures

Amir has more ability in one finger than any Indian bowler that has played for India past or present in their entire body - Cheat or no cheat.

 

[Sandeep]

Amir has more ability in one finger than any Indian bowler that has played for India past or present in their entire body - Cheat or no cheat.

You, my dear, are a load of BS, make no mistake

 

[Aman]

You, my dear, are a load of BS, make no mistake

Name one Indian bowler that has ever shown as much potential as Amir, heck name one Indian who as an 17/18 year old was able to bowl at 150 click and swing the ball... Talent is talent.

 

[Rockstar]

Amir has more ability in one finger than any Indian bowler that has played for India past or present in their entire body - Cheat or no cheat.

You guys talk more BS off the field....BUT when we actually meet this happens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YBVZ2QsvwYM

Alan Wilkins : "You wanna talk to me? Watch the next ball. I'll smash you through covers"

 

[Aman]

You guys talk more BS off the field....BUT when we actually meet this happens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YBVZ2QsvwYM

Alan Wilkins : "You wanna talk to me? Watch the next ball. I'll smash you through covers"

I'm not Pakistani.

 

[Rockstar]

I'm not Pakistani.

And people say I troll

 

[Aman]

And people say I troll

Don't believe me, it doesn't change anything.

 

[Sandeep]

Kiwi getting trolled. You deserve it mate )

 

[truefan]

Junaid is a bowler,BK is an all-rounder.....not a fair comparison ....Junaid v Umesh is better

 

[Rockstar]

Anticlimax - Junaid Khan dropped from playing XI

 

[Ahson8]

I'm guessing Junaid is rested, not dropped...

 

[truefan]

Last 3 months 7 matches,avg of 36 in extreme bowler friendly conditions,ER of 5.02,Strike rate of 43+ per wicket......was expected to get dropped anyways

 

[spaceshot]

I'm not Pakistani.

I had asked the same question a few weeks back and i didnt see u replying to that.
Your way of replying made it kinda look apparent that you were a pakistani..

So a Kiwi national with pakistani roots ?

 

[battler]

I had asked the same question a few weeks back and i didnt see u replying to that.
Your way of replying made it kinda look apparent that you were a pakistani..

So a Kiwi national with pakistani roots ?

nah buddy he's a kiwi with indian roots!just has a pretty strong dislike for the indian cricket team though.

 

[Sandeep]

Kiwi is the best troll I've seen in a long time

 

[Sandeep]

We know his identity, but the pretension is amazing, so I don't quite ask him. The posts are hilarious

 

[hafizexpress]

replying 3 months later I think they are quite equal and both of them are becoming one of the best

Junaid Khan in ODIs: 32 matches, 52 wickets avg 23

B Kumar in ODIs: 17 matches, 25 wickets avg 21

But I still think Junaid will become a better bowler!

 

[Anfield]

B Kumar would struggle in tests. I had be very surprised if he does well in tests. With his height and pace he won't trouble many batsmen.

 

[thewrongUn]

Wait for just a year or two and bhuvnesh will fade away like all indian seamers and this talk will be a joke as junaid is destined to be one of the best in business .....Bhuv will not become very ordinary but there wont be a comparison..i will be surprised if he picks pace or doesnt lose his swing given the indian hsitory...

 

[idly sambar]

Wait for just a year or two and bhuvnesh will fade away like all indian seamers and this talk will be a joke as junaid is destined to be one of the best in business .....Bhuv will not become very ordinary but there wont be a comparison..i will be surprised if he picks pace or doesnt lose his swing given the indian hsitory...

Junaid is struggling against Zimbabwe. Not sure what you are smoking. Like Akthar said, take Ajmal out, Pakistan would be strugglign to beat Bangladesh (wait they are already struggling against Zimbabwe which is worse than Bangla).

 

[amax]

Junaid is destined for greater things, if he works hard and remain fit. They are in completely different league, this is harsh truth of test cricket.

 

[HASHAM2]

Junaid is struggling against Zimbabwe. Not sure what you are smoking. Like Akthar said, take Ajmal out, Pakistan would be strugglign to beat Bangladesh (wait they are already struggling against Zimbabwe which is worse than Bangla).

Junaid Spell was one of the best i ever faced:Masakdaza

and u saying Juniad is struggling against Zimbabwe big jobe

Juniad has 3 five wicket haul in test cricket
B,Kumar 6 wickets in 4 test,s

 

[HamzaSaeen]

Re: Junaid Khan Vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

Junaid is struggling against Zimbabwe. Not sure what you are smoking. Like Akthar said, take Ajmal out, Pakistan would be strugglign to beat Bangladesh (wait they are already struggling against Zimbabwe which is worse than Bangla).

Tell us more about kumars exploits in test cricket.

 

[Saurav]

B Kumar would struggle in tests. I had be very surprised if he does well in tests. With his height and pace he won't trouble many batsmen.

Philander is about the same height and pace

 

[HamzaSaeen]

Re: Junaid Khan Vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

Philander is about the same height and pace

Philander is a different bowler.
From what I've seen he just hits an immaculate line and length consistently and lets the seam of the ball do the rest, reason why he would struggle in Asian conditions.

 

[idly sambar]

Junaid Spell was one of the best i ever faced:Masakdaza

and u saying Juniad is struggling against Zimbabwe big jobe

Juniad has 3 five wicket haul in test cricket
B,Kumar 6 wickets in 4 test,s

11 3 26 0 2.36 is his figure in this innings when his team really want him to get wickets. overall 44 overs 100 runs and 4 wickets. averaging 25 in this match. This is against the worst batting lineup. like I said in my prev post, please give me the thing that you are smoking.