Junaid Khan vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

[akheR]

Juni had a decent match vs SA, has 42 wickets @ 26 now, few scalps, just bring that average under 25 and he's beginning to look like a true Pak fast bowler.

 

[kinventor]

Did he lost inswing to right handers? He completly destroyed Indians with inswing. Missing Muhammad Amir with his deadly inswing.

 

[Fahdi]

What ever happened to Junaid's inswingers anyway? He is almost unplayable when he has those going.

 

[Ahson8]

Was getting the ball to reverse today

 

[Noobosauras]

Did he lost inswing to right handers? He completly destroyed Indians with inswing. Missing Muhammad Amir with his deadly inswing.

I think he can still do that with red cherry provided conditions are similar, cloud cover and near zero temperatures.

 

[Mobashir]

To be fait with Bhuvi, hat thread was always a joke but he looks to be the best from the Indian trundlers.

Junaid Khan has started billiantly in test cricket in UAE.

 

[PakistanKnight]

Bhuvneshwar has had a terrific year in ODIs. But Junaid is the package. Swung the new ball,reverse swung the old ball. Terrific bowler in this age. And I bet you,Bhuvneshwar can't swing it an inch in flat conditions,as Junaid did in this match on this track. Junaid is the better overall package. What can't he do with the ball?
And as someone said,he needs some wickets without going for many runs and his average will be below 25. He will become an asset then.

 

[amax]

Bkumar is typical swing it straight out of hand bowler(as opposed to late swing), manjrekar compared him with prabhaker, such bowlers usually have a career of 25-35 odd test matches with 90 round about wickets at avg 35+ and strike rate 65+. Usually they have better ODI careers though. There have been many in history of test cricket, such harsh is test cricket for pace bowlers. saying that he can always improvise for better.

 

[Zero]

Batting, Kumar.
Bowling, Junaid.
Fielding, Kumar.

 

[Haroon786]

Junaid close to getting 50 test wickets, hope it's the start of many, especially considering he has 4 tests in the next 2 months.

 

[kinventor]

Bkumar is typical swing it straight out of hand bowler(as opposed to late swing), manjrekar compared him with prabhaker, such bowlers usually have a career of 30 odd test matches with 90 round about wickets with avg 35+ and strike rate 65+. Usually they have better ODI careers though. There have been many in history of test cricket, such harsh is test cricket for pace bowlers.

Only Yadav was good find but he is injured and unfit to play tests most of the times.

 

[Noobosauras]

Batting, Kumar.
Bowling, Junaid.
Fielding, Kumar.

I think ODI Kumar has a slight edge, but tests its Juniad hands down.

 

[Haroon786]

Bhuv lacks the pace to reach the top or be very good in tests, however, I think he will still be decent, around Anderson level.

 

[Noobosauras]

Bkumar is typical swing it straight out of hand bowler(as opposed to late swing), manjrekar compared him with prabhaker, such bowlers usually have a career of 25 odd test matches with 90 round about wickets at avg 35+ and strike rate 65+. Usually they have better ODI careers though. There have been many in history of test cricket, such harsh is test cricket for pace bowlers.

Agreed. But I think he has better control and is a very intelligent bowler so I think he might average just above or under thirty. Won't be under 28 though. Also, with time I see him becoming a better bat and a bowling allrounder ala Ashwin.

 

[Haroon786]

I think ODI Kumar has a slight edge, but tests its Juniad hands down.

Should make Indian pitches more bowler friendly, otherwise even he would start struggling in ODIs like the start of the Australian series, however I agree with your evaluations of the two.

 

[kinventor]

I think ODI Kumar has a slight edge, but tests its Juniad hands down.

Junaid have lower average and better strike rate then BK in ODIs also. While as many expected BK have 40 average in tests.

 

[Noobosauras]

Should make Indian pitches more bowler friendly, otherwise even he would start struggling in ODIs like the start of the Australian series, however I agree with your evaluations of the two.

My evaluation in ODI is basically due to two new ball rule. Remove that and Bhuvi would find life difficult after 5-6 overs instead of after 8 at the moment.

 

[amax]

Only Yadav was good find but he is injured and unfit to play tests most of the times.

yadav can be a gun, his problem is that his head drops during delivery stride, this jerk hampers his ability to bowl accurately. I rate him because he can naturally bowl late out swingers at pace which is a genuine wicket taking delivery.

 

[Haroon786]

My evaluation in ODI is basically due to two new ball rule. Remove that and Bhuvi would find life difficult after 5-6 overs instead of after 8 at the moment.

I think of him as a predominantly line and length bowler, so he suits the containment ideology of ODI cricket, however should look to be attacking in all forms, yep also agree with the 2 new balls, without that batsmen wouldn't have any hesitation in trying to send his deliveries to orbit.

 

[Noobosauras]

Junaid have lower average and better strike rate then BK in ODIs also. While as many expected BK have 40 average in tests.

He was averaging 21 before Australia series two matches.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...3;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling


This JAMODIs are being played on airstrips so cut him some slack. His managed eco below six in last game when Aus spanked 359 is saying something.

ODI1
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013-14/engine/match/647249.html
ODI2
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013-14/engine/current/match/647251.html

 

[Haroon786]

yadav can be a gun, his problem is that his head drops during delivery stride, this jerk hampers his ability to bowl accurately. I rate him because he can bowl naturally bowl late out swingers at pace which is a genuine wicket taking delivery.

Future International bowling coach.

 

[kinventor]

My evaluation in ODI is basically due to two new ball rule. Remove that and Bhuvi would find life difficult after 5-6 overs instead of after 8 at the moment.

Asian bloc was against that rule because it make spinners not as usefull and also reverswing which is very important in flat wickets of subcontinent. Did ICC change that rule?

 

[kinventor]

He was averaging 21 before Australia series two matches.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...3;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling


This JAMODIs are being played on airstrips so cut him some slack. His managed eco below six in last game when Aus spanked 359 is saying something.

ODI1
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013-14/engine/match/647249.html
ODI2
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013-14/engine/current/match/647251.html

He is very good in ODIs but Junaid still edge out, and there is no comparision in tests.

 

[akheR]

Bkumar is typical swing it straight out of hand bowler(as opposed to late swing), manjrekar compared him with prabhaker, such bowlers usually have a career of 25-35 odd test matches with 90 round about wickets at avg 35+ and strike rate 65+. Usually they have better ODI careers though. There have been many in history of test cricket, such harsh is test cricket for pace bowlers. saying that he can always improvise for better.

Totally agree, he's bound to get early breakthroughs with the new ball but will never run through sides, even less in Tests (not enough pace).
Only Indian I've seen have late swing with pace is Umesh Yadav.

EDIT : you just mentioned him in another post.

Agreed. But I think he has better control and is a very intelligent bowler so I think he might average just above or under thirty. Won't be under 28 though. Also, with time I see him becoming a better bat and a bowling allrounder ala Ashwin.

I said on another thread that in Tests he'll be +30 and in ODIs 28-32, the latter will depend of his own hard-work.
He's accurate and mentally strong (his bowling at the death is from a whole new universe as compared to Praveen Kumar against BD @ Asia Cup, even though the fellow Kumar has more accuracy wit less pace), an intelligent bowler (Juni is a smart operator too).

 

[PakistanKnight]

My evaluation in ODI is basically due to two new ball rule. Remove that and Bhuvi would find life difficult after 5-6 overs instead of after 8 at the moment.

BCCI rules!

 

[Noobosauras]

Asian bloc was against that rule because it make spinners not as usefull and also reverswing which is very important in flat wickets of subcontinent. Did ICC change that rule?

Because it negates spinners and reverse swingers like Gul. Dhoni and BCCI opposed the new ODI changes tooth and nail. Like 2 bouncers! where will Raina go now? Field restrictions for spinners means Sir Jadeja like bits and pieces spinners will have very hard time when slightly out of form and accuracy. Sont evven get me started on reverse swing.
I think Guls career in ODI has ended due to this.

 

[kinventor]

Also Pakistani bowlers tend to get better with time while Indians? I mean there is huge difference between when Juni played first and now, and same is the case with Irfan.

 

[kinventor]

Because it negates spinners and reverse swingers like Gul. Dhoni and BCCI opposed the new ODI changes tooth and nail. Like 2 bouncers! where will Raina go now? Field restrictions for spinners means Sir Jadeja like bits and pieces spinners will have very hard time when slightly out of form and accuracy. Sont evven get me started on reverse swing.
I think Guls career in ODI has ended due to this.

Yep it seem ICC made these rules to **** of Asians.

 

[Noobosauras]

BCCI rules!

No, Bhuvi came much after this rule, rule was applied early 2012, Bhuvi came in 2013. BCCI actually opposed this rule a lot.

 

[Zero]

I think ODI Kumar has a slight edge, but tests its Juniad hands down.

New ball spell is quite equal.
It's just that Junaid can reach 140kph+, and he's a better death bowler.

 

[Bilal7]

I think ODI Kumar has a slight edge, but tests its Juniad hands down.

Bhuvi is an excellent new ball bowler and is one of the best in the world with the new ball, as far as LOIs are concerned. However, Junaid is better than him at the death and is more versatile so I'd pick him over Kumar.

Hope both have great careers for their teams, they have good attitudes about the game.

 

[Bilal7]

And Juanid hasn't lost the inswing, he still bowls it and did in this match. People should realize that it is a very difficult variation to master and Junaid, at this young age cannot be expected to do so. ATG's like Steyn haven't been able to bowl it at all.

 

[Noobosauras]

New ball spell is quite equal.
It's just that Junaid can reach 140kph+, and he's a better death bowler.

I have seen Bhuvi touch around 138Kph in Champions trophy and IPL. But I dont think he even tries to bowl fast regularly. He accepts his limitations and is confident of his ability. Its a good sign. bad sign is that he is infact a trundler so Batsmen in form will play him with not much trouble. Best he can do is have eco under 5 in ODI. If he doesnt get wicket in first four overs, he remains wicket less.

 

[Saurav]

as Noob said we shouldn't judge BK on the pattas provided in first two ODIs.

lets see how BK does in SA.Junaid struggled.BK outbowled him in CT too.

I'd say they are just about equal,maybe JK has edge in Tests,but I'll judge that after SA

 

[Zero]

I have seen Bhuvi touch around 138Kph in Champions trophy and IPL. But I dont think he even tries to bowl fast regularly. He accepts his limitations and is confident of his ability. Its a good sign. bad sign is that he is infact a trundler so Batsmen in form will play him with not much trouble. Best he can do is have eco under 5 in ODI. If he doesnt get wicket in first four overs, he remains wicket less.

If he hit 135kph-ish regularly, I think he'd be better.
I don't necessarily think he's a typical 'trundler', pace isn't everything if you can't use it.
I also agree, if he doesn't get wickets in his opening spell, he will generally remain wicketless.

 

[PakistanKnight]

No, Bhuvi came much after this rule, rule was applied early 2012, Bhuvi came in 2013. BCCI actually opposed this rule a lot.

You missed my smileys. That was just a joke.

 

[Mamoon]

Tests = Junaid

ODIs = B Kumar

Overall, Junaid because he is more versatile but B Kumar is one of the best new ball bowler to emerge from the sub continent in years.

 

[chaiwala]

Junaid is better in both Tests and ODI's.

But Bhuvi is not bad by any means, and given our bowling struggles, he is as important to us and Junaid is to Pakistan.

 

[Anfield]

as Noob said we shouldn't judge BK on the pattas provided in first two ODIs.

lets see how BK does in SA.Junaid struggled.BK outbowled him in CT too.

I'd say they are just about equal,maybe JK has edge in Tests,but I'll judge that after SA

JK played just one test in South Africa. He bowled quite brilliantly in first innings but there was nothing left to bowl in the 2nd innings as Pakistan failed to reach a score of 50 while batting.

 

[truefan]

Bhuvi is an allrounder whereas Juni is a bowler ,Bhuvi is a brilliant fielder in the outfield as well, comparison is wrong, like comparing Perera to Kulasekhara both are good in their own ways

 

[kungfu90]

Was never a contest.

 

[Red Devil]

Right now Junaid has better stats than Bhuvi in both ODIs and Tests.

Both fantastic bowlers though

 

[Anfield]

B kumar would be another Parveen Kumar nothing more. Umesh Yadav looked like a very good prospect and also Varun (from what little I have seen) but unfortunately both struggle to remain fit.

 

[Abidi110]

Both good talent, Junaid is better though but why do we have to compare every young talent with others?

 

[Zero]

Let's just hope that Kumar doesn't fade away like most Indian pacers.
Especially Agarkar and Irfan Pathan.

 

[Aman]

S.R. difference between the two is massive but I can't see Junaid running through a team (ODI's) as well as BK.

 

[talha3]

Re: Junaid Khan Vs Bhuvneshwar Kumar

S.R. difference between the two is massive but I can't see Junaid running through a team (ODI's) as well as BK.

Do you still see Boult and Southee better than both?

 

[Aman]

Do you still see Boult and Southee better than both?

In tests yes

Both have 6 and 7 wicket bags

 

[Bilal7]

S.R. difference between the two is massive but I can't see Junaid running through a team (ODI's) as well as BK.

Then I'm guessing you didn't see the ODI series against India.

 

[Bewal Express]

Two excellent young bowlers. JK is the better test bowler but Kumar is the better ODI bowler. As with all Indian Bowlers , its how they fare after the first couple of years.

 

[infysaran]

Both are good bowlers. One of them wears full sleeves.

 

[Myrmidon]

^^
One of them also opens up a cricket academy for the poor when he isn't that rich themselves, which itself is the sign of an honest person infysaran

I like Bhuvi Kumar, brilliant young bowler but Junaid is better, T20 stats apart, Junaid has better average in both ODI and Test with better Strike Rate

 

[infysaran]

^^
One of them also opens up a cricket academy for the poor when he isn't that rich themselves, which itself is the sign of an honest person infysaran

I like Bhuvi Kumar, brilliant young bowler but Junaid is better, T20 stats apart, Junaid has better average in both ODI and Test with better Strike Rate

Great to hear! I really appreciate him on this.

 

[truefan]

Let's just hope that Kumar doesn't fade away like most Indian pacers.
Especially Agarkar and Irfan Pathan.

still Agarkar scored double the runs Aqib javed and Mohammad sami did combined in Internationals Plus almost equal ODI wickets these two took combined and 6 catches more than these two combined .... if BK becomes Agarkar in odis Bowling wise it will still be enough,I know stats are shocking

 

[truefan]

Thread is not justified,an allrounder and a bowler can never be compared,Bhuvi can easily bat in top 6 -7 in many teams

 

[The Dark Corner]

Junaid is better atm. However, his bowling needs to be more penetrative. He doesn't quite look extremely threatening yet.

 

[ads101]

Thread is not justified,an allrounder and a bowler can never be compared,Bhuvi can easily bat in top 6 -7 in many teams

With an average of 16.60 in ODIs and 26.66 in tests (and in tests he hasn't proven himself with the ball yet like in ODIs).

Can't consider him an allrounder surely. He wouldn't bat 6 or 7 in any team. Even our team.

Guy's a very good LOI bowler, but he's no allrounder.

 

[truefan]

lol...k,btw Bhuvi will surely get in the Pak team in Odis,someone who can easily score 20-30 and is handy with the ball,brilliant in the field,Pak surely needs one such guy,everyone knows it...

 

[Saurav]

JK played just one test in South Africa. He bowled quite brilliantly in first innings but there was nothing left to bowl in the 2nd innings as Pakistan failed to reach a score of 50 while batting.

nothing left to bowl what sort of logic is that?You mean he gave up?If Pakistan can get out for 50 surely the bowlers can try to get the opposition out cheaply too

 

[akheR]

still Agarkar scored double the runs Aqib javed and Mohammad sami did combined in Internationals Plus almost equal ODI wickets these two took combined and 6 catches more than these two combined .... if BK becomes Agarkar in odis Bowling wise it will still be enough,I know stats are shocking

:aaqib was a very talented bowler who had to struggle for the third seamer spot because of the double Ws, but was instrumental in our WC win, here bowling against AUS (ER under 3!), and during the final he had a very economical spell too

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/3BF6wMwPQGI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Bowls like Steyn

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/zO6meSWUEEo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/90j2DhiecUo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:aaqib

Had he played more matches, he'd have tons of more wickets.
Also, he is the most successful Pak bowler against India in ODIs, +50 wickets @ -25 (incl. one 4fer and three 5fers, incl. a hat-trick)

lol...k,btw Bhuvi will surely get in the Pak team in Odis,someone who can easily score 20-30 and is handy with the ball,brilliant in the field,Pak surely needs one such guy,everyone knows it...

lol, is an "all rounder" because he averages 22 with the bat in Tests then.

And no Bhuvi wouldn't get in the Pak team as a bowling all rounder, please come back on earth lol, even / are "bowling all rounders" by your definition.

 

[ads101]

lol...k,btw Bhuvi will surely get in the Pak team in Odis,someone who can easily score 20-30 and is handy with the ball,brilliant in the field,Pak surely needs one such guy,everyone knows it...

Yeah of course, we'd love to have him at eight as one of our seamers.

We wouldn't play him at 6 or 7 for his batting alone though. Would be crazy.

 

[HASHAM2]

Junaid khan is Far ahead
and time will Prove That
B.Kumar is no more than 125kph Medium Fast bowler

 

[amax]

Thread is not justified,an allrounder and a bowler can never be compared,Bhuvi can easily bat in top 6 -7 in many teams

He is nowhere near a test class all rounder,if you still insist than that will make him a bits and pieces cricketer.

 

[Haroon786]

JK's sr will remain mid 50s with the amount of cricket played in the UAE, however he has a chance to lower it when on away tours, or he could develop it into a beast bowler ala Waqar or Wasim during his peak.

 

[Haroon786]

To people who watched Wasim's first 30 tests, was he the master that everyone rated him as after his retirement ?

What I mean is that did he have that perfectionist swing and control even at the start of his career.

 

[sully3]

Both are good bowlers. One of them wears full sleeves.

6 out of the 11 pakistani players that played against SA in the first test were wearing full sleeves.

Why are you Indians so bitter?

 

[sully3]

Anyone with half a brain knows who's the better bowler, so no point me posting his name.

But i definitely think as things stand Junaid is an excellent fast bowler in SC conditions, who at the moment hasn't quiet figured out how to bowl in foreign conditions.
One of our bowling coaches needs to sit down with him and identify that you need another bowling plan in England, SA, Aus etc compared to how you bowl in UAE or India. Junaid could learn alot from watching match footage of Asif in England, SA and Australia, and how he was unplayable at times by just doing the basics right.
Junaid puts in effort into every delivery, where as places like England you just let your wrist do the talking and the ball will naturally do things that trouble the batsman.

 

[Buffet]

To people who watched Wasim's first 30 tests, was he the master that everyone rated him as after his retirement ?

What I mean is that did he have that perfectionist swing and control even at the start of his career.

I didn't watch all his first 30 games but he surely didn't have perfectionist swing and control early on in his career.

 

[Saurav]

6 out of the 11 pakistani players that played against SA in the first test were wearing full sleeves.

Why are you Indians so bitter?

Basit Ali is Indian too?

 

[Haroon786]

I didn't watch all his first 30 games but he surely didn't have perfectionist swing and control early on in his career.

Then why does someone like JK get chided as nothing more than good, even he can go on to great things, just needs to be persevered with.

 

[Eye_Done]

lol...k,btw Bhuvi will surely get in the Pak team in Odis,someone who can easily score 20-30 and is handy with the ball,brilliant in the field,Pak surely needs one such guy,everyone knows it...

Pakistan select bowlers based on their bowling talent. Forget about national team trundler like Bhuvi wont even make into any Pakistan club side.

 

[akheR]

To people who watched Wasim's first 30 tests, was he the master that everyone rated him as after his retirement ?

What I mean is that did he have that perfectionist swing and control even at the start of his career.

Wasim Akram at 23, in 1989 junaid is 23 too... born in 1989.)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/FwgYK5gN7fI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[sully3]

Basit Ali is Indian too?

He's an idiot as well.

The ICC has cleared the guy why can't you just let him play on without questioning him every time he gives a good performance.

Ajmal is another, most Indians i know try to discredit him at every opportunity possible even though they treated Harbhajan as god for near enough a decade, even though he isn't half the bowler Ajmal is.

 

[Haroon786]

wasim akram at 23, in 1989 junaid is 23 too... Born in 1989.)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fwgyk5gn7fi" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

that waas deadly

 

[Saurav]

He's an idiot as well.

The ICC has cleared the guy why can't you just let him play on without questioning him every time he gives a good performance.

Ajmal is another, most Indians i know try to discredit him at every opportunity possible even though they treated Harbhajan as god for near enough a decade, even though he isn't half the bowler Ajmal is.

treating Harbhajan as god?))

the god was dropped long ago from ODIs,now dropped in Tests too and is no way near making a comeback.Even when he was playing he was bashed for not being good.

Technically both are fine.but questions will always be there.

Also when a bowler is as successful as Ajmal,haters will be there.You should look to enjoy that like we do with Sachin haters

 

[Noobosauras]

With an average of 16.60 in ODIs and 26.66 in tests (and in tests he hasn't proven himself with the ball yet like in ODIs).

Can't consider him an allrounder surely. He wouldn't bat 6 or 7 in any team. Even our team.

Guy's a very good LOI bowler, but he's no allrounder.

He is a good no 8 batsman, will be no good at no 6.

 

[Anfield]

nothing left to bowl what sort of logic is that?You mean he gave up?If Pakistan can get out for 50 surely the bowlers can try to get the opposition out cheaply too

Your moral takes a hit when your batsmen can't put even a 50 on the board and opposite team starts with a lead of over 200.

 

[Noobosauras]

Pakistan select bowlers based on their bowling talent. Forget about national team trundler like Bhuvi wont even make into any Pakistan club side.

sorry but Bhuvi is an excellent LOI bowler. Take your hatred somewhere else.
In SA i am sure he will do better in tests too.

 

[Haroon786]

sorry but Bhuvi is an excellent LOI bowler. Take your hatred somewhere else.
In SA i am sure he will do better in tests too.

Yeah sure

 

[Saurav]

Your moral takes a hit when your batsmen can't put even a 50 on the board and opposite team starts with a lead of over 200.

no thats now how good bowlers go.they actually raise their game in such a challenge.They'd look to get the opposition out cheaply so that they can get a chaseable score as target.

Same way our batsmen are not expected to just get out when bowlers conceded 600 like they regularly do.they should still look to do the job and keep the team in a chance