What's new

PTI protest : Will Imran Khan succeed on 2nd November, 2016?

Pakistan is seen as progressing economically, terrorist attacks have halted, Lahore is seeing massive infrastructure development, country's image has improved tremendously in current tenure of PM Nawaz Sharif. He has taken some good steps like departure of Afghan refugees, *** for tat India policy, raising K at UNGA, CPEC, Qadri hanging.

What else do you expect from PM Nawaz Sharif ? First learn to respect PM of your country, only then trust will develop.

Imran Khan is an anarchist, very anti national. India should lend it's support to PM Nawaz Sharif.

Terror attacks have been halted due to Army operations, operations which the Noon League was VERY hesitant to give support to until the Peshawar incident. In this thread someone copied pasted past headlines of Nawaz giving adulation to the Taliban and their system of governance. All these terror outfits that Indians hate have full blessing from the Nooras, a lot of these banned outfits can be seen in their jalsas or getting them votes. This is the same guy who also was born from a dictator and attacked the Supreme Court in 1998. Also the same guy whose children apparently bought tens of millions of dollars worth of properties when they were teenagers or jobless, no explaination of where that money came from (Panama leaks). Some anti-terror and democratic hero he is. The fact that Indians love him is reason enough alone to oppose him.

Our growth is even worse than PPP era, twice they were caught with their pants down lying down re: economic numbers. Finance minister literally days ago was caught giving himself bogus economic awards (there was a thread on it). They have governed Punjab for 30 years, out of which only Lahore has seen any growth while the rest of the province rots. Some accolade.

Before you open your mouth, learn some basic knowledge about what you're arguing with.
 
Last edited:
For years Pakistani Public has wished and hoped for someone to come forward and dare asking questions from corrupt leaders. Now that they have one, these people think that challenging corrupt leaders is a wrong thing.

Why some people think that it's Nawaz vs IK? Why can't they acknowledge that it's Corruption vs Accountability?

Democracy is not a finished product in Pakistan. And some people don't want it to evolve. Irony is that they think this evolution thing is anti democratic. Do we think that democracy in Pakistan is at par with the one in UK, France etc? If it isn't, what it needs to be at par? Or may be we are happy just for the namesake without substance.

It's right of every citizen to protest against bad governance but it's one's duty to stand against injustice.

Rights are optional, Duties are obligation.
 
For years Pakistani Public has wished and hoped for someone to come forward and dare asking questions from corrupt leaders. Now that they have one, these people think that challenging corrupt leaders is a wrong thing.

Why some people think that it's Nawaz vs IK? Why can't they acknowledge that it's Corruption vs Accountability?

Democracy is not a finished product in Pakistan. And some people don't want it to evolve. Irony is that they think this evolution thing is anti democratic. Do we think that democracy in Pakistan is at par with the one in UK, France etc? If it isn't, what it needs to be at par? Or may be we are happy just for the namesake without substance.

It's right of every citizen to protest against bad governance but it's one's duty to stand against injustice.

Rights are optional, Duties are obligation.

One of the best post in this thread.

We think this democracy will automatically improve without accountability or without building institutions. More thn 8 years of democracy now and no signs of working on making institutions strong and reforms while our baadshah type leaders think accountability means jamhooryat derail ho jayegi.
 
Kuch sherma hoti he kuch haya hoti he...

CvjFZCeWIAYne8O.jpg:small
 
Kuch sherma hoti he kuch haya hoti he...

CvjFZCeWIAYne8O.jpg:small

For the Nawaz-is-good-for-economy-and-corruption champions from Pakistan and our padosi trolls who keep highlighting IMF:

IMF head: biggest obstacle facing Pakistan's economic recovery is corruption.
 
well well well. Billo Rani ha extended his/her stay in Dubai. :))

I just hate politicians. :yk
 
Sheikh ul Islam Allama Tahir ul Qadri does not do anything which the boys don't ask him to do.


I will Oppose IK if the Snakes storm in with him. This will prove the Sinister Plan and Holy Lords behind it who want to level their Personal Scores.



IK is doing very well in KPK and He has taken a great stance on Panama Issue where He has a huge public Support in Punjab as seen in Raiwand March.


He should refrain from getting played in the Hands of Others otherwise He will get Nothing and all the Cake will go in hands of them.



IK needs to be very Careful and Mature in his Moves.
 
Not sure why IK continues to align himself with Qadri :facepalm:

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: That's a bad start to campaign already.

As per most talkshows though, Imran Khan isn't happy with Qadri's flip flops and didn't care if he joined and he even ran away to Canada but now he joins after complaining about IK's behaviour.
 
Pakistan is seen as progressing economically, terrorist attacks have halted, Lahore is seeing massive infrastructure development, country's image has improved tremendously in current tenure of PM Nawaz Sharif. He has taken some good steps like departure of Afghan refugees, *** for tat India policy, raising K at UNGA, CPEC, Qadri hanging.

What else do you expect from PM Nawaz Sharif ? First learn to respect PM of your country, only then trust will develop.

Imran Khan is an anarchist, very anti national. India should lend it's support to PM Nawaz Sharif.

Double standards of Indians, they rejected Congress in India mainly due to corruption and preferred a leader who was known as Hindu fanatic for Gujrat killings but when it comes to Pakistan they support Nawaz Sharif who is mostly knonwn for his corruption (also exposed in recent Panama scandal.

Quite understandable though!
 
Qadri is a very strange character. He always abandons IK at critical junctures.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] you're still dodging the question I don't care what Imran Khan is doing or not as Nawaz Sharif is the Prime Minister and why he shouldn't be accountable?

Democracy only works if their is accountability and people like Sharifs and Fake Bhuttos are the real obstacle to a truly functioning governance.
 
PTI has cancelled all the political activities for today including the Abbottabad jalsa. Imran is in Quetta now.
 
Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf leader Shah Mahmood Qureshi on Tuesday denied that the party had invited the Difa-i-Pakistan Council (DPC) to participate in the PTI's planned siege of Islamabad on Nov 2.

"DPC has its own ideology, they are holding their programme on Oct 28. We can not stop them but we did not invite them. We did not invite DPC or Shuhada Foundation."

The government has been creating the impression that PTI has been inviting militant organisations to participate in Nov 2 lockdown, Qureshi alleged, adding, that "this is governmental propaganda…We are against extremism."

http://www.dawn.com/news/1292195/di...articipate-in-islamabad-lockdown-shah-mahmood
 
If there are early elections (which are largely free and fair) who would win?

Are there any reliable opinion polls carried out in Pakistan on the popularity of the various parties mid parliament?
 
If there are early elections (which are largely free and fair) who would win?

Are there any reliable opinion polls carried out in Pakistan on the popularity of the various parties mid parliament?

I think Nawaz Sharif will still win the elections and his strategy is very simple, spend 55% of whole Punjab development funds on Lahore building roads, bridges, buses, trains which makes Lahore look beautiful. Lahore being capital of Punjab impresses whole Punjab and when you win Punjab, you win Pakistan. They don't believe in spending on human development, improvement in governance etc.
 
The issue with that entire premise is that we have already had 35 odd years of military rule and they have been just as bad as when it comes to governance and economic management as the likes of PPP and PML-N, and, worse still, far more corrupt. The economic prosperity during the Ayub, Zia and Mush eras is a bit of an illusion because the economic expansion in all three eras was driven by external factors, not their management of the economy.

Ayub took over at the height of the cold war when both the US and USSR would literally pay third world countries, in cash and in kind, to ally with them. Ayub era growth was driven mostly by aid inflows from the US and any economy registers high growth rates when large amounts of cash are injected into it regardless of how poorly that cash is managed. To put it into perspective, South Korea a decade ago was in a similar situation and aid made up 90% of their budget but the Syngman Rhee government there invested most of the aid money in setting up a network of schools and providing free education to all citizens of schoolgoing age, followed by the Park government that built on Rhee's efforts(Rhee, incidentally, was so corrupt he makes Zardari look like a paragon of clean governance) and invested the aid inflow into developing an industrial base that would serve as a launchpad for future economic growth. Ayub, during roughly the same period, invested his aid receipts in the army and some minor industrial infrastructure but he was the one who laid the foundation for future military interference in governance by turning us into a national security state as opposed to the Korean and Taiwanese militaries who used aid to turn their countries into developmental states.

Zia, again, ruled Pakistan when aid inflows from the US and Saudi Arabia were at historical highs and the global economy was riding a wave of high growth after a tumultuous decade in the 70s. Same goes for Musharraf who benefited from a global economic boom starting in 2003. During the first four years of his rule, when the global economy was depressed and the dot com bubble had just burst, our economic performance was comparable to our performance under Zardari from 2008 onwards. It was only after 9/11 when the aid dollars started rolling in and the added impetus provided by a buoyant global economy from 2003 onward that our economy saw some growth, most of which had ended by the tail end of Musharraf's government anyway. Not a single dictatorship laid down a foundation on which future economic growth could be built nor did they bring about any reforms that would provide an impetus for the economy growing forward. What they did was make merry with aid dollars and ride on global economic booms which coincided with their rule.

As an Indian, I am sure some Pakistanis will read my post with some skepticism, however if you read it with an open mind you may find something of value. I will say that [MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION] and [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] have it right.

1) You can search the history books and you will not find one example where a country has prospered under military rule. Pakistani military dominates the country getting the best of everything. Read the following Washington Post article and tell me where it is wrong?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062601826.html

"Active-duty or retired officers now occupy most key government jobs, including posts in education, agriculture and medicine that have little to do with defense. The military also dominates the corporate world; it reportedly runs a $20 billion portfolio of businesses from banks to real estate developers to bakeries."

"History in Pakistan is on the generals' side. They have ruled the country for more than half of the 60 years since independence. Even when civilians have ostensibly been in charge, they have had to bow to the military just to keep their jobs. Of the nation's past three civilian leaders, two are in exile and one was hanged."

"Yet the military's imprint is everywhere. It's by the side of the road, where men in orange jumpsuits labor for a military-run foundation that controls a huge share of the nation's construction industry. It's also present up and down the ranks of the civilian bureaucracy, where government workers answer to retired military men and complain that loyalty is consistently rewarded over hard work or competence. And it's in Riaz's health clinic, where his doctors say they take heat from army inspectors if they spend more than 10 minutes with a patient."

"For Pakistani professionals -- particularly highly trained lawyers, doctors and professors -- the movement has become a chance to decry intrusions in their fields by less educated military men. Civil society, they say, has badly atrophied during Musharraf's tenure."

"For Pakistani professionals -- particularly highly trained lawyers, doctors and professors -- the movement has become a chance to decry intrusions in their fields by less educated military men. Civil society, they say, has badly atrophied during Musharraf's tenure."

"In Rawalpindi, the teeming garrison town just down the road from Islamabad, retired and active-duty officers live in sparkling new gated communities that feature luxury homes, tree-lined streets and grassy parks. Mohammed Shafiq, a 36-year-old clerk, can see one such development from the weedy field in front of his old, squat brick home. "Before, people had good opinions of the army," he said. "Now they are afraid. If soldiers come, we think they are coming to take our land." Land is one of the military's most prized assets, distributed as a perk to top officers, with major generals getting at least 50 acres apiece."

Mind you, the above article is not written by an Indian. Neither is the entire world out to get the common Pakistani.

Do you want to go back to military rule?

2. Your best hope is that leaders are elected democratically. At least they know that if they improve the lot of the people economically, then they have a better chance of winning elections. Military leaders have no such incentives.

3. IK's agitation is basically the overthrow of a democratically elected government. If he wishes to help democracy grow in Pakistan he should wait till the next elections.

4. There is no point in having China as a model, just like there is no point for Indians to have China as a model. The Chinese Communist Party has enough patriots to have provided the country with pragmatic governance where corruption is low enough for economic growth to occur. Neither India nor Pakistan has such an organization.
 
Last edited:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] you're still dodging the question I don't care what Imran Khan is doing or not as Nawaz Sharif is the Prime Minister and why he shouldn't be accountable?

Democracy only works if their is accountability and people like Sharifs and Fake Bhuttos are the real obstacle to a truly functioning governance.

The accountability in democracies comes from elections, not street agitations that aim to overthrow the government or bring military rule.
 
The accountability in democracies comes from elections, not street agitations that aim to overthrow the government or bring military rule.

Incorrect. Accountability in democracies come from a judicial system that keeps checks and balances on the government.
 
Incorrect. Accountability in democracies come from a judicial system that keeps checks and balances on the government.

1. Judges are not outside of the political system, they are appointed by those who win elections.

2. Even in advanced democracies like the US, Supreme Court judges are almost completely political. You know how a judge is going to vote depending upon whether they are a liberal or a conservative.
 
The accountability in democracies comes from elections, not street agitations that aim to overthrow the government or bring military rule.

So if Prime minister's corruption is exposed, people should decide and not the institutions? Hmmmmmm.......

That makes absolutely no sense, it would even make some sort of sense if there were just rumours that Nawaz is corrupt which even his own supporters admit he is (kuch khata hai tou kuch lagata bhi hai) is their favourite excuse.

In this case though, his undeclared properties have been exposed and he has lied on his electoral nomination papers about his and dependent's assets. Whole world reacted to the leaks and investigations have started (even heads of states resigned as a result). In Pakistan though, we have been told that people will decide and not Election Commission, National Accountability Bureau, Judiciary????
 
So if Prime minister's corruption is exposed, people should decide and not the institutions? Hmmmmmm.......

That makes absolutely no sense, it would even make some sort of sense if there were just rumours that Nawaz is corrupt which even his own supporters admit he is (kuch khata hai tou kuch lagata bhi hai) is their favourite excuse.

In this case though, his undeclared properties have been exposed and he has lied on his electoral nomination papers about his and dependent's assets. Whole world reacted to the leaks and investigations have started (even heads of states resigned as a result). In Pakistan though, we have been told that people will decide and not Election Commission, National Accountability Bureau, Judiciary????

Say 10 million people agitate and force Nawaz to resign. The 10 million is less than 10% of Pakistan's population. What about the remaining 90%+? Aren't they supposed to have a say?

That is why you have elections where 100% of the people are eligible to participate and decide.

I think all this discussion misses the basic fact that if you want economic development, then NS is your best bet. The options are Zardari (who we can all agree is a bigger thief) or the military (see my previous post about what happened to Pakistan's economy under Musharraf). If you think drama queen IK is going to get you anywhere, you are mistaken, and apparently the majority of your population also thinks so which is why they did not vote for him.
 
Say 10 million people agitate and force Nawaz to resign. The 10 million is less than 10% of Pakistan's population. What about the remaining 90%+? Aren't they supposed to have a say?

That is why you have elections where 100% of the people are eligible to participate and decide.

I think all this discussion misses the basic fact that if you want economic development, then NS is your best bet. The options are Zardari (who we can all agree is a bigger thief) or the military (see my previous post about what happened to Pakistan's economy under Musharraf). If you think drama queen IK is going to get you anywhere, you are mistaken, and apparently the majority of your population also thinks so which is why they did not vote for him.

Lol as expected you could not answer ANY questions i raised and in short you said "no accountability is required, let the voters decide if there was any corruption. This reminds me of Nawaz's nephew Hamza Shahbaz "Corruption hoti rehti hai, awaam khud faisla kareingay".

Forget Imran Khan or his 10 or 10 million people on the road, that is SECONDARY. I didn't get ANY answer for the following part:

In this case though, his undeclared properties have been exposed and he has lied on his electoral nomination papers about his and dependent's assets. Whole world reacted to the leaks and investigations have started (even heads of states resigned as a result). In Pakistan though, we have been told that people will decide and not Election Commission, National Accountability Bureau, Judiciary????
 
The accountability in democracies comes from elections, not street agitations that aim to overthrow the government or bring military rule.

Why did the Ireland Prime Minister resigned then? Please enlighten me?

And nobody wants to overthrow the government Nawaz Sharif should resign and be punished for his crimes and a new Prime Minister from his party should held the position until the next election. It's a reasonable demand not an democracy overthrowing matter.

And regarding army its the typical Nawaz and Bhutto supporter line. Instead of improving the democracy they all are trying to blame it on external factors such as Army, Imran etc.

Though it is understandable why Indians support Nawaz as Pakistan can never start getting better as a nation if we have corrupt and traitors like him and Bhuttos as our leader.
 
In another case, 100 people were shot and 14 killed in an attack launched against people inside their homes and there was massive media coverage for hours. The orders came directly from Nawaz/Shahbaz Sharif for the attack and these people weren't even protesting out on the streets.

What i am being told is that people will decide in next elections whether Sharifs should be punished for launching an unprovoked attack killing more than a dozen people. This when majority of people vote on the basis of local issues like blocked drains, roads, power, influence, caste, contacts. Probably 10% think about national issues like corruption, poverty, law & order, foriegn policy, economy etc
 
Why did the Ireland Prime Minister resigned then? Please enlighten me?

And nobody wants to overthrow the government Nawaz Sharif should resign and be punished for his crimes and a new Prime Minister from his party should held the position until the next election. It's a reasonable demand not an democracy overthrowing matter.

And regarding army its the typical Nawaz and Bhutto supporter line. Instead of improving the democracy they all are trying to blame it on external factors such as Army, Imran etc.

Though it is understandable why Indians support Nawaz as Pakistan can never start getting better as a nation if we have corrupt and traitors like him and Bhuttos as our leader.

Iceland's PM resigned and British PM cleared himself inside the parliament.

At least 30 countries have initiated investigations including Bangladesh, India etc (even 3rd world countries). Only in Pakistan is opposition being ridiculed rather than the culprits.

Indians should probably ask Modi why Panama scandal is being investigated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_Panama_Papers
 
Last edited:
In another case, 100 people were shot and 14 killed in an attack launched against people inside their homes and there was massive media coverage for hours. The orders came directly from Nawaz/Shahbaz Sharif for the attack and these people weren't even protesting out on the streets.

What i am being told is that people will decide in next elections whether Sharifs should be punished for launching an unprovoked attack killing more than a dozen people. <b>This when majority of people vote on the basis of local issues like blocked drains, roads, power, influence, caste, contacts. Probably 10% think about national issues like corruption, poverty, law & order, foriegn policy, economy etc</b>

If 90% of the population think blocked drains are more important than corruption, then that is as it should be in a democracy.

Rather elitist of you to say you know better than the majority. Your elitism may be justifiable, however I seriously doubt that the army or IK will get you to a better place.
 
Iceland's PM resigned and British PM cleared himself inside the parliament.

At least 30 countries have initiated investigations including Bangladesh, India etc (even 3rd world countries). Only in Pakistan is opposition being ridiculed rather than the culprits.

Indians should probably ask Modi why Panama scandal is being investigated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_Panama_Papers

Yeah it is a major leak, Nearly every country is taking action against the person named in the leak on Taxes let alone showing where did the income came from? To which our PM and his family have no answer.

For the first time these people can't destroy or burn the evidence so that's why they are playing the blaming game instead of answering some simple questions.
 
Why did the Ireland Prime Minister resigned then? Please enlighten me?

And nobody wants to overthrow the government Nawaz Sharif should resign and be punished for his crimes and a new Prime Minister from his party should held the position until the next election. It's a reasonable demand not an democracy overthrowing matter.

And regarding army its the typical Nawaz and Bhutto supporter line. Instead of improving the democracy they all are trying to blame it on external factors such as Army, Imran etc.

<b>Though it is understandable why Indians support Nawaz as Pakistan can never start getting better as a nation if we have corrupt and traitors like him and Bhuttos as our leader.</b>

If you think that I think of myself as so super-clever as to be able to convince Pakistanis to back NS so as to harm them, you are mistaken. Let me put it this way, the largest tips I give to cab drivers are to Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Indians.

I assume you know Pakistan has a constitution. I am not familiar with the Ireland PM's case, but I assume he probably knew that he would be voted out in Parliament or something similar. Politicians do not give up power willingly. I do not believe the Irish PM was under any extra-constitutional threat.

Now don't you think it is a good idea to follow Pakistan's Constitution? Forcing a PM to resign due to chaos on the streets isn't a part of your Constitution. If you don't follow the Constitution you are inviting anarchy.
 
If 90% of the population think blocked drains are more important than corruption, then that is as it should be in a democracy.

Rather elitist of you to say you know better than the majority. Your elitism may be justifiable, however I seriously doubt that the army or IK will get you to a better place.

Easy for you to say but the reality is different, A peon who used to work in my father office told me that nearly all of the people in his constituency voted for PPP in Interior Sindh(including him) because they give them a plate of biryani(to some people they payed Rs.500 as well) and transport to the voting station on the voting day.

Is a plate of biryani more important then who is going to represent you in Parliament? There are no schools or health care there. Those people don't even know what human rights are. So yeah some small percentage who understand these issues will have to take a stand for the betterment of everyone.
 
Say 10 million people agitate and force Nawaz to resign. The 10 million is less than 10% of Pakistan's population. What about the remaining 90%+? Aren't they supposed to have a say?

That is why you have elections where 100% of the people are eligible to participate and decide.

100%? Well in Pakistan not even 50% people show up in elections thats how much they care about it. Let ms give you some facts Nawaz party is ruling based on 18% votes he got out of total registered voters (around 15 million votes out of 86 million). And those 15 million votes are around 8% of the total population.
 
Easy for you to say but the reality is different, A peon who used to work in my father office told me that nearly all of the people in his constituency voted for PPP in Interior Sindh(including him) because they give them a plate of biryani(to some people they payed Rs.500 as well) and transport to the voting station on the voting day.

Is a plate of biryani more important then who is going to represent you in Parliament? There are no schools or health care there. Those people don't even know what human rights are. So yeah some small percentage who understand these issues will have to take a stand for the betterment of everyone.

I have seen it by my own eyes people selling votes for plates of beryanis or some cash, people being forced to vote by the waderas of the village and so many other example. This angrezi jamhooryat can't work in this country as it is when half of the population is illiterate and can't even vote freely.
 
Now don't you think it is a good idea to follow Pakistan's Constitution? Forcing a PM to resign due to chaos on the streets isn't a part of your Constitution. If you don't follow the Constitution you are inviting anarchy.

This Nawaz Shareef was the biggest anarchist when he wasn't in goverment. Just check his antics in Gillani/Zardari goverment 5 years ago and his long marches, dhernas, attack on president house. And even before that back in 90s he derailed Benazir goverment by creating chaos. His party even attacked supreme court of Pakistan to beat judges. You reap what you sow...

I will say it again democracy without accountability is anarchy...I know it takes time to build institutions but 8+ years of democracy now and not a single step taken for that?

Whole country is running now remittances and loans and they say we are economically stable now.
 
I have seen it by my own eyes people selling votes for plates of beryanis or some cash, people being forced to vote by the waderas of the village and so many other example. This angrezi jamhooryat can't work in this country as it is when half of the population is illiterate and can't even vote freely.

Yeah it is easy to sit in another country and make remarks but the reality is most of these people don't even know anything about voting, rights. Some are bought and most of them are forced to vote(by Waderas or peer pressure).

The system can only be changed from the top in a country like Pakistan, it can't be changed from grassroots level.

Most of the supporters of Sharifs and Bhuttos are happy with status quo because they are directly or indirectly benefiting from this corrupt system.
 
As an Indian, I am sure some Pakistanis will read my post with some skepticism, however if you read it with an open mind you may find something of value. I will say that [MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION] and [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] have it right.

1) You can search the history books and you will not find one example where a country has prospered under military rule. Pakistani military dominates the country getting the best of everything. Read the following Washington Post article and tell me where it is wrong?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062601826.html

"Active-duty or retired officers now occupy most key government jobs, including posts in education, agriculture and medicine that have little to do with defense. The military also dominates the corporate world; it reportedly runs a $20 billion portfolio of businesses from banks to real estate developers to bakeries."

"History in Pakistan is on the generals' side. They have ruled the country for more than half of the 60 years since independence. Even when civilians have ostensibly been in charge, they have had to bow to the military just to keep their jobs. Of the nation's past three civilian leaders, two are in exile and one was hanged."

"Yet the military's imprint is everywhere. It's by the side of the road, where men in orange jumpsuits labor for a military-run foundation that controls a huge share of the nation's construction industry. It's also present up and down the ranks of the civilian bureaucracy, where government workers answer to retired military men and complain that loyalty is consistently rewarded over hard work or competence. And it's in Riaz's health clinic, where his doctors say they take heat from army inspectors if they spend more than 10 minutes with a patient."

"For Pakistani professionals -- particularly highly trained lawyers, doctors and professors -- the movement has become a chance to decry intrusions in their fields by less educated military men. Civil society, they say, has badly atrophied during Musharraf's tenure."

"For Pakistani professionals -- particularly highly trained lawyers, doctors and professors -- the movement has become a chance to decry intrusions in their fields by less educated military men. Civil society, they say, has badly atrophied during Musharraf's tenure."

"In Rawalpindi, the teeming garrison town just down the road from Islamabad, retired and active-duty officers live in sparkling new gated communities that feature luxury homes, tree-lined streets and grassy parks. Mohammed Shafiq, a 36-year-old clerk, can see one such development from the weedy field in front of his old, squat brick home. "Before, people had good opinions of the army," he said. "Now they are afraid. If soldiers come, we think they are coming to take our land." Land is one of the military's most prized assets, distributed as a perk to top officers, with major generals getting at least 50 acres apiece."

Mind you, the above article is not written by an Indian. Neither is the entire world out to get the common Pakistani.

Do you want to go back to military rule?

2. Your best hope is that leaders are elected democratically. At least they know that if they improve the lot of the people economically, then they have a better chance of winning elections. Military leaders have no such incentives.

3. IK's agitation is basically the overthrow of a democratically elected government. If he wishes to help democracy grow in Pakistan he should wait till the next elections.

4. There is no point in having China as a model, just like there is no point for Indians to have China as a model. The Chinese Communist Party has enough patriots to have provided the country with pragmatic governance where corruption is low enough for economic growth to occur. Neither India nor Pakistan has such an organization.

Korea? Taiwan? Chile? A decent military government can be a godsend for a developing country but the issue with Pakistan is that there's nothing decent about our military's mindset which makes the infinitely slower and less effective democratic model at early stages of development the only viable one.
 
Last edited:
If 90% of the population think blocked drains are more important than corruption, then that is as it should be in a democracy.

Rather elitist of you to say you know better than the majority. Your elitism may be justifiable, however I seriously doubt that the army or IK will get you to a better place.

PMLN got only 18% as Webguru said but even then you are still delibrately ignoring the main point which is the corruption case that the whole world is reacting to, forget Imran Khan or opposition's reaction, how should Pakistan react to the leaks? Investigate or ignore?
 
As for Imran Khan's "anarchy", this is a must watch video comparing Imran's current stance and Nawaz Sharif's stance on corruption charges against PPP

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6PIB-OLB9P8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Imran Khan is acting like a loser here. Can't defeat Nawaz Sharif in fair elections and is hence using the shortcut to Glory.

Why can't he rather spread awareness about the corruption of Sharifs and try to defeat them in the next elections? He is part of the democratic process and is working against the very same system at the same time.

The elitist attitude of Imran Khan, PTI and it's supporters is clear enough. They think they are entitled to rule Pakistan and are the only solution to all the problems of the country.

Democracy or any other system is correct, only if Imran Khan gets elected as the victorious Leader of the country. If Imran Khan doesn't win, then the system is corrupt and not fit enough for a country like Pakistan. Imran Khan this, Imran Khan that, because Imran says so.

Maybe today PTI, it's Leader and it's trolls might be able to get rid of Nawaz Sharifs but such moves will make sure that Pakistan continues to remain a Politically unstable country for a long long time to come in the future.

But since when do insafians ever care about the democratic process in the country? All they care about is somehow having their self righteous leader ruling the country.
 
Last edited:
As for Imran Khan's "anarchy", this is a must watch video comparing Imran's current stance and Nawaz Sharif's stance on corruption charges against PPP

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6PIB-OLB9P8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Was going to post it. Also check DNA 24th Oct program they are also showed similar and compared it.
 
Imran Khan is acting like a loser here. Can't defeat Nawaz Sharif in fair elections and is hence using the shortcut to Glory.

Why can't he rather spread awareness about the corruption of Sharifs and try to defeat them in the next elections? He is part of the democratic process and is working against the very same system at the same time.

The elitist attitude of Imran Khan, PTI and it's supporters is clear enough. They think they are entitled to rule Pakistan and are the only solution to all the problems of the country.

Democracy or any other system is correct, only if Imran Khan gets elected as the victorious Leader of the country. If Imran Khan doesn't win, then the system is corrupt and not fit enough for a country like Pakistan. Imran Khan this, Imran Khan that, because Imran says so.

Maybe today PTI, it's Leader and it's trolls might be able to get rid of Nawaz Sharifs but such moves will make sure that Pakistan continues to remain a Politically unstable country for a long long time to come in the future.

But since when do insafians ever care about the democratic process in the country? All they care about is somehow having their self righteous leader ruling the country.

People simply do NOT understand the issue so please at least put some effort in understanding especially if you are educated (and it looks like you are).

I will repeat it like a broken record so please take a minute to read below:

Since Panama papers were leaked, Iceland's PM resigned and British PM cleared himself inside the parliament. At least 30 countries have initiated investigations including Bangladesh, India etc (even 3rd world countries). Check Wikipedia for more details on how countries are reacting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reacti..._Panama_Papers

Now forget about Imran Khan, how should Pakistan and it's institutions react? Investigate or ignore?
 
Now something relevant to the forum, Najam Sethi and PMLN leadership has banned push ups after cricket team's wins because it can derail the democracy as cricketers pay tribute to Army :))):)))

Democracy is weakened by weak institutions run by corrupt individuals who serve Nawaz Sharif and his greed to keep ALL powers to himself wherever he possbly can.
 
Imran Khan is acting like a loser here. Can't defeat Nawaz Sharif in fair elections and is hence using the shortcut to Glory.

Why can't he rather spread awareness about the corruption of Sharifs and try to defeat them in the next elections? He is part of the democratic process and is working against the very same system at the same time.

The elitist attitude of Imran Khan, PTI and it's supporters is clear enough. They think they are entitled to rule Pakistan and are the only solution to all the problems of the country.

Democracy or any other system is correct, only if Imran Khan gets elected as the victorious Leader of the country. If Imran Khan doesn't win, then the system is corrupt and not fit enough for a country like Pakistan. Imran Khan this, Imran Khan that, because Imran says so.

Maybe today PTI, it's Leader and it's trolls might be able to get rid of Nawaz Sharifs but such moves will make sure that Pakistan continues to remain a Politically unstable country for a long long time to come in the future.

But since when do insafians ever care about the democratic process in the country? All they care about is somehow having their self righteous leader ruling the country.

Again trying to blame external factors instead of punishing Nawaz Sharif & Sharifs. If Nawaz Sharif resigns and some other person from the Parliament is elected to be the Prime Minister of Pakistan until the next election where is the harm in that?

Forget about Army & Imran, shouldn't our PM whose companies are in Panama leaks be investigated?

And even Nawaz Sharif didn't defeated Imran Khan in fair election. Until fair elections are held this is a pointless argument.
 
Again trying to blame external factors instead of punishing Nawaz Sharif & Sharifs. If Nawaz Sharif resigns and some other person from the Parliament is elected to be the Prime Minister of Pakistan until the next election where is the harm in that?

Forget about Army & Imran, shouldn't our PM whose companies are in Panama leaks be investigated?

And even Nawaz Sharif didn't defeated Imran Khan in fair election. Until fair elections are held this is a pointless argument.

Nawaz Shareef should watch his own videos from recent past where he was acting like an anarchist trying to derail Gillani govt every other day and forcing him to resign and face the courts...Khawaja Saad Rafique during that long march even mentioned in an interview "humne 250 logon ka aik jatha tayar ker rakha tha saamne aane waalon ke liay"
 
Imran Khan is acting like a loser here. Can't defeat Nawaz Sharif in fair elections and is hence using the shortcut to Glory.

Why can't he rather spread awareness about the corruption of Sharifs and try to defeat them in the next elections? He is part of the democratic process and is working against the very same system at the same time.

The elitist attitude of Imran Khan, PTI and it's supporters is clear enough. They think they are entitled to rule Pakistan and are the only solution to all the problems of the country.

Democracy or any other system is correct, only if Imran Khan gets elected as the victorious Leader of the country. If Imran Khan doesn't win, then the system is corrupt and not fit enough for a country like Pakistan. Imran Khan this, Imran Khan that, because Imran says so.

Maybe today PTI, it's Leader and it's trolls might be able to get rid of Nawaz Sharifs but such moves will make sure that Pakistan continues to remain a Politically unstable country for a long long time to come in the future.

But since when do insafians ever care about the democratic process in the country? All they care about is somehow having their self righteous leader ruling the country.

So its ok to be corrupt as long you win elections? The Stupidity of that statement is just mind boggling, is it ok to murder in broad day light as long as you win elections , is it ok to rape as long as you win elections. Only in Noora logic is The enforcement of the law dependent on whether you can win an election in a corrupt system. Stupidity of Nooras doesn't surprise me any more.
 
So its ok to be corrupt as long you win elections? The Stupidity of that statement is just mind boggling, is it ok to murder in broad day light as long as you win elections , is it ok to rape as long as you win elections. Only in Noora logic is The enforcement of the law dependent on whether you can win an election in a corrupt system. Stupidity of Nooras doesn't surprise me any more.

Why not? Win elections and you get a free license to do everything in our country for next 5 years!
 
[MENTION=103382]Zeeraq[/MENTION]

I believe I answered your question. I might have missed it in the sea of posts so I would like to apologize for it. However, if I did answer and it was not to your satisfaction, then I am afraid what I will say now will still not be to your satisfaction, unless you choose to reflect on it with an open mind which I hope you will.

First of all, the tragedy is that the people who have decided to hold these crooks accountable have skeletons in their own cupboard.

Do you know that Imran Khan sacked his own judiciary council for exposing rigging within PTI? He sacked the council because he was not willing to take the crooks within his party to task because of mutual benefits. Now who will hold Imran accountable for this?

Who will hold Imran accountable for nominating Aleem Khan for NA-122, the infamous land grabbing mafia who has made millions of rupees through bogus property schemes?

Do you know that Imran Khan's main financier, Jahangir Tareen, on whose private aircrafts Imran jets around the country, had a loan worth 10 million rupees written off for his sugar mill?

Why doesn't Imran take these people to task first so that we can take his tabdeeli rhetoric seriously. He doesn't because he gets a lot of benefits from these people and he cannot afford to lose their support.

Someone who claims himself to be the Champion of Accountability & Destruction has refused to apply his doctrine on his own party. He is just the Champion of Destruction, nothing more.

Do you think that PTI comes into power and Imran becomes the PM, there will be true democracy and accountability? Absolutely not. Same crooks and lotas who are getting away with it now because they are under the PTI banner.

As [MENTION=130419]shah_1[/MENTION] said a few posts earlier, our judiciary system is rotten, and I agree with him. However, do you think Imran and PTI supports would call the Supreme Court corrupt if it would have made decisions in his favor? He got foam in his mouth when Supreme Court dismissed the 2013 Elections as a conspiracy against him, and since then he has taken a swipe at them at every opportunity and has decided to accountability in his own hands. So what is he waiting for? why doesn't he declare a revolution? If he considers himself as part of the democratic system, then that system has courts and he is legally bound to accept their decisions, which he clearly does not.

What does he want to achieve in Islamabad now and what does he, you or others think will happen?

Does he intend to lock up the capital till The Umpire raises his finger?

History is simply repeating itself - Imran found himself in a an awkward, stubborn deadlock during his 2014 Azadi March, but the dreadful massacre at APS Peshawar provided him with an exit opportunity.

IK found himself in a stubborn deadlock during his 2014 Street Theatre. But the dreadful massacre at APS Peshawar provided PTI an exit opportunity.

Two years later, we are back to the rubbish. However, some people say that history never repeats. So what conclusion then awaits us in this grand soap opera finale?

Only yesterday, he said that last time The Umpire did not raise his finger but was confident that this time He would. He did imply the umpire is 'Allah Almighty' but then he considers people as fools to buy that in this context. In fact, even last time he said the same thing and we know what he means be referring to The Umpire.

Now the present Umpire is on his way out and so our great democrat is actually asking him to take over and once the gentleman does, much like Musharraf, he's not going to retire anytime soon. Maybe a decade from now.

This is all he wants because his politics starts and ends with Nawaz. It is so obvious, he doesn't believe in courts; he doesn't believe in the parliament. In fact, he doesn't believe in anything but himself and he has the advantage of being able to create a cult following who refuse to understand that we will go back to square one.

I say this because I believe in democracy, as faulty as it may look.

For those who don't and prefer a knight in shining armor, well, what more would they want?
 
What IK should have done is:

1. Concentrate on KPK and bring change. There is no change if you stop using PTI Social Media as your source of information. He bleats corruption but I wish people could see the actual level of corruption. Just in my district it is no less than it was in the past. He should have worked here and let his people work here, last three years they have been doing nothing but collecting money for agitation or making money for themselves.

2. The initial slogan was rigging, the charge was that PML-N rigged the election in a conspiracy to keep him out.

Result: the Supreme Court said there was no conspiracy but due to systematic failure, individual rigging took place.

There is no doubt about that. In our country, there is rigging in every constituency and all candidates do it.
The remedy is electoral reforms but our friend wasn't and is not interested, all the dharnas should have been focused on that.

Panama: there are two ways to deal with it, the courts asking for a fresh mandate. It is not enough that Imran says he is guilty, even if everyone thinks he is, it still has to be proved.

Let's presume Nawaz calls for fresh polls, what will be the result? Rigging charges again, why? because the system remains the same.

In case there is no faith in anyone and any institution then he shouldn't operate within the system, he should announce that he doesn't believe in the constitution, the courts and the whole system. He should thus proceed to call for a revolution. Does he know what that means? What law will he follow then? And why does he think the whole nation is behind him?

What is the purpose of Dharna 2 and locking the capital again with his junoonis dancing on the streets and taking selfies. He used the horrific APS tragedy as an escape route in 2014 because he as going absolutely nowhere with his dharna. InshAllah no such thing will happen again, but what will be his escape route this time because, much like in 2014, he is not going anywhere with this.

I wish eliminating corruption was that easy. The man has not been able to make a dent in it in KPK so how would he do it in the whole country. Rhetorics take you nowhere.

This is all nonsense and simply power politics for the sake of power politics, and I am personally not interested in an idol to worship.
 
[MENTION=103382]Zeeraq[/MENTION]

I believe I answered your question. I might have missed it in the sea of posts so I would like to apologize for it. However, if I did answer and it was not to your satisfaction, then I am afraid what I will say now will still not be to your satisfaction, unless you choose to reflect on it with an open mind which I hope you will.

First of all, the tragedy is that the people who have decided to hold these crooks accountable have skeletons in their own cupboard.

Do you know that Imran Khan sacked his own judiciary council for exposing rigging within PTI? He sacked the council because he was not willing to take the crooks within his party to task because of mutual benefits. Now who will hold Imran accountable for this?

Who will hold Imran accountable for nominating Aleem Khan for NA-122, the infamous land grabbing mafia who has made millions of rupees through bogus property schemes?

Do you know that Imran Khan's main financier, Jahangir Tareen, on whose private aircrafts Imran jets around the country, had a loan worth 10 million rupees written off for his sugar mill?

Why doesn't Imran take these people to task first so that we can take his tabdeeli rhetoric seriously. He doesn't because he gets a lot of benefits from these people and he cannot afford to lose their support.

Someone who claims himself to be the Champion of Accountability & Destruction has refused to apply his doctrine on his own party. He is just the Champion of Destruction, nothing more.

Do you think that PTI comes into power and Imran becomes the PM, there will be true democracy and accountability? Absolutely not. Same crooks and lotas who are getting away with it now because they are under the PTI banner.

As [MENTION=130419]shah_1[/MENTION] said a few posts earlier, our judiciary system is rotten, and I agree with him. However, do you think Imran and PTI supports would call the Supreme Court corrupt if it would have made decisions in his favor? He got foam in his mouth when Supreme Court dismissed the 2013 Elections as a conspiracy against him, and since then he has taken a swipe at them at every opportunity and has decided to accountability in his own hands. So what is he waiting for? why doesn't he declare a revolution? If he considers himself as part of the democratic system, then that system has courts and he is legally bound to accept their decisions, which he clearly does not.

What does he want to achieve in Islamabad now and what does he, you or others think will happen?

Does he intend to lock up the capital till The Umpire raises his finger?

History is simply repeating itself - Imran found himself in a an awkward, stubborn deadlock during his 2014 Azadi March, but the dreadful massacre at APS Peshawar provided him with an exit opportunity.

IK found himself in a stubborn deadlock during his 2014 Street Theatre. But the dreadful massacre at APS Peshawar provided PTI an exit opportunity.

Two years later, we are back to the rubbish. However, some people say that history never repeats. So what conclusion then awaits us in this grand soap opera finale?

Only yesterday, he said that last time The Umpire did not raise his finger but was confident that this time He would. He did imply the umpire is 'Allah Almighty' but then he considers people as fools to buy that in this context. In fact, even last time he said the same thing and we know what he means be referring to The Umpire.

Now the present Umpire is on his way out and so our great democrat is actually asking him to take over and once the gentleman does, much like Musharraf, he's not going to retire anytime soon. Maybe a decade from now.

This is all he wants because his politics starts and ends with Nawaz. It is so obvious, he doesn't believe in courts; he doesn't believe in the parliament. In fact, he doesn't believe in anything but himself and he has the advantage of being able to create a cult following who refuse to understand that we will go back to square one.

I say this because I believe in democracy, as faulty as it may look.

For those who don't and prefer a knight in shining armor, well, what more would they want?

It's interesting that basically your views always reflect the Nooras virtually to the word. Just to pick one thing, that if JK and Aleem were criminals, and the Nooras being so desperate for anything to pin on IK, why wouldnt have they brought some cases by now? It is like most of what you say, half baked crap. Any system that puts the PM above the law doesn't need reform, it needs to be destroyed. I, for one is hoping that all the sharifs and Bhuttos are hanged.
 
The only way out, realistically, good decision by IK.

Hopefully, we will get rid of this mirage called democracy.

Let's hope the responsible institutions rise to the occasion.
 
Korea? Taiwan? Chile? A decent military government can be a godsend for a developing country but the issue with Pakistan is that there's nothing decent about our military's mindset which makes the infinitely slower and less effective democratic model at early stages of development the only viable one.

Korea, Taiwan and Chile are different. Korea and Taiwan were at the beginning of the Cold War, when the US wanted to prove the superiority of capitalism, so pressured these countries to follow pro-market policies and also gave them access to the US market. Chile was also a similar situation where their economic planning was handed over to the "Chicago boys" to implement pro-market policies. The political situation in Pakistan and the world now does not make these growth stories possible for Pakistan. More appropriate comparisons for a military ruled Pakistan are the mid-East dictatorships.

The other thing is that Korean and Taiwanese are individually docile, which makes them good labor in dictatorial systems. Pakistanis (and Indians) have a different individual personalities, so you are not going to get these masses of labor marching into factories and assembling smart phones like they do in East Asia.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I kind of get you are saying but the thing is as in Cricket their are Tried n Tested Failures (Bhutto's, Sharif's, MQM) and Imran Khan is a new player on the scene. Who knows maybe he will succeed or not only time will tell but Sharifs and Bhuttos are nothing but bad news for our country.

If he is corrupt then our Judiciary should launch an investigation against him as well. The point is democracy without accountability will not lead anywhere.
 
News coming in that 25000 police officers being deployed in Islamabad to keep badshah salamat and his government safe.


If only 10 off these 25000 had been deployed at the police academy we would have saved lives of 60 young men.



But obviously the life of badshah salamat is alot more important than us slaves.
 
What IK should have done is:

1. Concentrate on KPK and bring change. There is no change if you stop using PTI Social Media as your source of information. He bleats corruption but I wish people could see the actual level of corruption. Just in my district it is no less than it was in the past. He should have worked here and let his people work here, last three years they have been doing nothing but collecting money for agitation or making money for themselves.

2. The initial slogan was rigging, the charge was that PML-N rigged the election in a conspiracy to keep him out.

Result: the Supreme Court said there was no conspiracy but due to systematic failure, individual rigging took place.

There is no doubt about that. In our country, there is rigging in every constituency and all candidates do it.
The remedy is electoral reforms but our friend wasn't and is not interested, all the dharnas should have been focused on that.

Panama: there are two ways to deal with it, the courts asking for a fresh mandate. It is not enough that Imran says he is guilty, even if everyone thinks he is, it still has to be proved.

Let's presume Nawaz calls for fresh polls, what will be the result? Rigging charges again, why? because the system remains the same.

In case there is no faith in anyone and any institution then he shouldn't operate within the system, he should announce that he doesn't believe in the constitution, the courts and the whole system. He should thus proceed to call for a revolution. Does he know what that means? What law will he follow then? And why does he think the whole nation is behind him?

What is the purpose of Dharna 2 and locking the capital again with his junoonis dancing on the streets and taking selfies. He used the horrific APS tragedy as an escape route in 2014 because he as going absolutely nowhere with his dharna. InshAllah no such thing will happen again, but what will be his escape route this time because, much like in 2014, he is not going anywhere with this.

I wish eliminating corruption was that easy. The man has not been able to make a dent in it in KPK so how would he do it in the whole country. Rhetorics take you nowhere.

This is all nonsense and simply power politics for the sake of power politics, and I am personally not interested in an idol to worship.

If for a moment we ignore Imran and dharnas and all that, would you still ignore Panama Leaks? Don't use Imran Khan to defend PM Nawaz. BTW if Imran and his main men were corrupt why didn't the govt lodge cases against them? Apart from that, IIRC Shahbaz even said that he is gonna drag Zardari in the streets of Lahore. What happened now? Why doesn't he lodge cases against Zardari but lodges 26 Arab harjana against Imran why?

IMO its quite simple. In politics there are no friends or enemies. Any party or any individual who is of use is a friend and any person or party who can harm you is your enemy. Politics in Pakistan is not based on morals or ethics or rules. Nawaz happily inviting the same Zardari for dinner whom he used to call a thief is a perfect example of this.
 
Biggest proof of Nawaz Sharif's lies is that so far his only defence against corruption accusation is:

- Imran Khan used hospital funds to purchase flat in London in 1983.
- Imran Khan used Shaukat Khanum Hospital funds to purchase unknown properties all over the world.
- Imran Khan was involved in money laundering in 1983 because there is no way he could afford 20,000 Pound flat just by playing cricket (Imran Khan had been playing county cricket since 1971).

And all these above accusatins after King Sharif has been exposed in Panama leaks. Almost every federal minister of Nawaz government has come out attacking Shaukat Khanum hospital.

Now i am being told that these goons are custodians and symbols of democracy in Pakistan.
 
If for a moment we ignore Imran and dharnas and all that, would you still ignore Panama Leaks? Don't use Imran Khan to defend PM Nawaz. BTW if Imran and his main men were corrupt why didn't the govt lodge cases against them? Apart from that, IIRC Shahbaz even said that he is gonna drag Zardari in the streets of Lahore. What happened now? Why doesn't he lodge cases against Zardari but lodges 26 Arab harjana against Imran why?

IMO its quite simple. In politics there are no friends or enemies. Any party or any individual who is of use is a friend and any person or party who can harm you is your enemy. Politics in Pakistan is not based on morals or ethics or rules. Nawaz happily inviting the same Zardari for dinner whom he used to call a thief is a perfect example of this.

Don't confuse uncle [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] with Facts yar !! What are you doing :facepalm:
 
Nawaz keeps diverting the attention to non-related issues to his immense corruption. The point is not if everyone else is clean but how did he attain all that incredible wealth. Imran Khan's name did not appear in the Panama leaks, his did. His childish attitude of "they did it as well" over corruption charges is not fitting for a leader. I am however happy that those who voted for him are suffering great hardship, they deserve to do so. We're getting close to 2 Nov now, I am feeling excited as well as afraid.
 
Nawaz keeps diverting the attention to non-related issues to his immense corruption. The point is not if everyone else is clean but how did he attain all that incredible wealth. Imran Khan's name did not appear in the Panama leaks, his did. His childish attitude of "they did it as well" over corruption charges is not fitting for a leader. I am however happy that those who voted for him are suffering great hardship, they deserve to do so. We're getting close to 2 Nov now, I am feeling excited as well as afraid.

More reason to be afraid then excited. Remember Nawaz isn't going to be in Pakistan on 2nd Nov, badshah salamat is going on a foreign tour. When badshah leaves the taj of badshahat is handed over to his maharaji daughter, who is known to have a violent streak.

I'm anxious that she doesn't direct nooni goons to do some gunda gardi on the protesters or worse ask Punjab police to open fire on them.
 
Don't confuse uncle [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] with Facts yar !! What are you doing :facepalm:

Whoops!!! :najam

Jokes apart, I seriously don't understand how anyone can support PM even after Panama Leaks.

This "Jamhooriyat derail hojayegi" nonsense is getting on my nerves.

Democracy is Hypocrisy without Accountability.

I'd like to remind [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] that the PM of Pakistan is a public servant and fully accountable for misuse of taxpayer's money.
 
Whoops!!! :najam

Jokes apart, I seriously don't understand how anyone can support PM even after Panama Leaks.

This "Jamhooriyat derail hojayegi" nonsense is getting on my nerves.

Democracy is Hypocrisy without Accountability.

I'd like to remind [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] that the PM of Pakistan is a public servant and fully accountable for misuse of taxpayer's money.

As per brother Mamoon even if a person is a murderer or a rapist he should just strive to win an election since that is the way he can be held accountable
 
More reason to be afraid then excited. Remember Nawaz isn't going to be in Pakistan on 2nd Nov, badshah salamat is going on a foreign tour. When badshah leaves the taj of badshahat is handed over to his maharaji daughter, who is known to have a violent streak.

I'm anxious that she doesn't direct nooni goons to do some gunda gardi on the protesters or worse ask Punjab police to open fire on them.

Either way even if Nawaz was in Pak there will be some violence as he is not going to give in easily. How long is he absent for? At most after a few days will need to return home hopefully welcomed by millions on the street. I am afraid its got to the stage now where we can't get rid of Nawaz easily. He knows full well that he is in massive trouble with so many charges against him so will go with a big bang. I am counting on Imran Khan, Shah Mehmood, Sheikh Rashid and Tahir ul Qadri if he returns.
 
Martial Law in the making....hope it comes soon.

Army using IK and Qadri to create chaos and if Gen.Shareef won't agree to taking over, the Core Commanders will take over leaving Shareef behind as his tenure is almost over anyways.

Frankly, does not make any difference. Only sad thing is to see IK either failing to understand the grand scheme behind this or too innocent to think he will become PM due to this stunt.
 
Yeh khud ko jamhooryat ke champions kehte hen? Acting like a King always. Read this

CvxDlyrXEAATwNI.jpg
 
Martial Law in the making....hope it comes soon.

Army using IK and Qadri to create chaos and if Gen.Shareef won't agree to taking over, the Core Commanders will take over leaving Shareef behind as his tenure is almost over anyways.

Frankly, does not make any difference. Only sad thing is to see IK either failing to understand the grand scheme behind this or too innocent to think he will become PM due to this stunt.

Either he is innocent or people are way to ignorant to understand? Imran has said many times, if Nawaz Sharif resigns another of his party members can replace him which means there will be no impact on democratic process and why would i struggle for 20 years to help martial law? In either case, it's not about Imran beocming PM, it is practically impossible.
 
Korea, Taiwan and Chile are different. Korea and Taiwan were at the beginning of the Cold War, when the US wanted to prove the superiority of capitalism, so pressured these countries to follow pro-market policies and also gave them access to the US market. Chile was also a similar situation where their economic planning was handed over to the "Chicago boys" to implement pro-market policies. The political situation in Pakistan and the world now does not make these growth stories possible for Pakistan. More appropriate comparisons for a military ruled Pakistan are the mid-East dictatorships
That is only partly correct. While Chile did follow neoliberal pro market policies drafted by the Chicago boys, Korea and Taiwan did no such thing. They did get unfettered access to the US market, much like Japan before them, but they absolutely, unequivocally did not follow pro market policies and the policies that they did follow were not followed under US pressure but in spite of it. Korea and Taiwan used localized versions of the same development model that every single industrialized nation before them, with the exception of Hong Kong, Netherlands and Switzerland, did. They protected their domestic industries heavily, offered an insane amount of subsidies and other incentives to domestic manufacturers, virtually banned imports of finished goods and heavily promoted exporters. The extent of their utilization of liberal economic policies was limited to the export side of the equation while their domestic markets were more closed than most Soviet Bloc nations. Their good fortune was that there was no WTO then nor had the western world fallen in love with Reaganomics yet. The US, off course, was not always happy with this and a lot of what they did to get where they are was in defiance of the US' wishes(POSCO?), not under pressure by the US.

Pakistan is irrelevant to this discussion since I have already acknowledged that Pakistan's military simply isn't capable of pulling something like that off as is clear from their abject failures when they were ruling the country in an era where this was a realistic possibility. That said, democracy is not a great system at earlier stages of development but for Pakistan, it's the proverbial one eyed king in the land of the blind because the alternative is so much worse. While it is the best of all realistic possibilities, there's no harm in acknowledging that it does make the development process that much harder simply because of how many inefficiencies it introduces into the mix.

The other thing is that Korean and Taiwanese are individually docile, which makes them good labor in dictatorial systems. Pakistanis (and Indians) have a different individual personalities, so you are not going to get these masses of labor marching into factories and assembling smart phones like they do in East Asia.
That's just not true. People seek to better their lot and if factories and assembly lines offer better opportunities, they will abandon farms and fields for them.
 
[MENTION=139075]Hadi Rizvi[/MENTION]

No one is defending Nawaz. I have said it before and I will say it again - I do not support Nawaz and I did not vote for him in the 2013 General Elections. I voted for PTI and hence it is my right to voice my concerns regarding the direction it is heading and what it is has done over the last two years.

Also, the allegations against some PTI members (not Imran, he is not financially corrupt) are concerned, just because the PML-N and PPP governments were not competent enough to deal with him, it does not mean that they are saints.

We need to overcome these double standards. When Imran makes an allegations, they are true, whether they are proven are not; when someone else makes an allegations against PTI, they are not true until proven because PTI is a party of saints and how can PTI members have skeletons in their cupboard?

Panama Leaks was not a groundbreaking discovery; it did not tell us something we did not know, because corruption allegations have always been there for Nawaz.

However, you have to look at the bigger picture. If the PM resigns now it will create anarchy and chaos, and the most likely outcome will be Martial Law, and that is the last thing Pakistan needs.

That however is exactly what Imran wants. He wants the Umpire to raise his finger and install him as PM. Leadership of the country is not a hot cake which you can pass around for fun. In the name of democracy, we must allow the current government which was democratically elected by the majority to complete its term.

One of the good things that came out of PPP's government (apart from the 18th Amendment) was that it was able to complete its term. We have a long, documented history of usurping democratically elected governments and then we complain about political instability.

We need to set a precedence for the future generations and allow elected governments to complete its term. We are not England or Iceland; Our PM simply cannot walk away and everything will take care of itself. Nawaz resigning now or the Federal Government dissolving altogether will only make matters worse for Pakistan.

As far as Imran is concerned, I regret my vote for him because he is a massive disappointment. He has no consideration for the job we elected his party for, nor our country which is on the brink of war with India, and neither did he let a day pass for us to mourn the Quetta tragedy without calling for fresh protests tomorrow. No doubt corruption is a real problem, but it something that should be dealt with in court in accordance with the law.

Not according to whatever conspiracy theory comes to Kaptaan's mind. No man is above the law nor should they take it in their own hands, as he is doing by planning sieges and demanding the PM resign.

The betterment of Pakistan is a united government in the face of threats by India on the outside and terror cells on the inside. The betterment of Pakistan also means utilizing the parliamentary seats you were elected for to voice your concerns and work for a better Pakistan, instead of resigning every few months.

The betterment of Pakistan also lies in leaders who are not swayed by conspiracy theories and who mourn their tragedies instead of running off for a dharna the next day.

Our government may be governed by 'dirty people' but Imran Khan is no better than the rest. Speaking of corruption, do you know the level of corruption in KPK? Here the ehtisab commission is dormant, the chief was fired because he was after important people here.

We were desperate for an honest leader. Next time we will be praying for a sane one, because honesty alone is not good enough.
 
[MENTION=139075]Hadi Rizvi[/MENTION]

No one is defending Nawaz. I have said it before and I will say it again - I do not support Nawaz and I did not vote for him in the 2013 General Elections. I voted for PTI and hence it is my right to voice my concerns regarding the direction it is heading and what it is has done over the last two years.

Also, the allegations against some PTI members (not Imran, he is not financially corrupt) are concerned, just because the PML-N and PPP governments were not competent enough to deal with him, it does not mean that they are saints.

We need to overcome these double standards. When Imran makes an allegations, they are true, whether they are proven are not; when someone else makes an allegations against PTI, they are not true until proven because PTI is a party of saints and how can PTI members have skeletons in their cupboard?

Panama Leaks was not a groundbreaking discovery; it did not tell us something we did not know, because corruption allegations have always been there for Nawaz.

However, you have to look at the bigger picture. If the PM resigns now it will create anarchy and chaos, and the most likely outcome will be Martial Law, and that is the last thing Pakistan needs.

That however is exactly what Imran wants. He wants the Umpire to raise his finger and install him as PM. Leadership of the country is not a hot cake which you can pass around for fun. In the name of democracy, we must allow the current government which was democratically elected by the majority to complete its term.

One of the good things that came out of PPP's government (apart from the 18th Amendment) was that it was able to complete its term. We have a long, documented history of usurping democratically elected governments and then we complain about political instability.

We need to set a precedence for the future generations and allow elected governments to complete its term. We are not England or Iceland; Our PM simply cannot walk away and everything will take care of itself. Nawaz resigning now or the Federal Government dissolving altogether will only make matters worse for Pakistan.

As far as Imran is concerned, I regret my vote for him because he is a massive disappointment. He has no consideration for the job we elected his party for, nor our country which is on the brink of war with India, and neither did he let a day pass for us to mourn the Quetta tragedy without calling for fresh protests tomorrow. No doubt corruption is a real problem, but it something that should be dealt with in court in accordance with the law.

Not according to whatever conspiracy theory comes to Kaptaan's mind. No man is above the law nor should they take it in their own hands, as he is doing by planning sieges and demanding the PM resign.

The betterment of Pakistan is a united government in the face of threats by India on the outside and terror cells on the inside. The betterment of Pakistan also means utilizing the parliamentary seats you were elected for to voice your concerns and work for a better Pakistan, instead of resigning every few months.

The betterment of Pakistan also lies in leaders who are not swayed by conspiracy theories and who mourn their tragedies instead of running off for a dharna the next day.

Our government may be governed by 'dirty people' but Imran Khan is no better than the rest. Speaking of corruption, do you know the level of corruption in KPK? Here the ehtisab commission is dormant, the chief was fired because he was after important people here.

We were desperate for an honest leader. Next time we will be praying for a sane one, because honesty alone is not good enough.

Except you and the Noora cronies. Isnt it strange that every defense you put up comes from Fatty Dani, or killer Rana etc. Any system that has a PM above the law needs to be destroyed, it cant be reformed.
 
Saray junooni bhangray dalna shoro kardo... Noora and his dakait darbari are on their way out.


I hope Nawazo keeps up this stupidity of arresting PTI workers and arresting IK. Remember third umpire is watching and his patience is running out.
 
Saray junooni bhangray dalna shoro kardo... Noora and his dakait darbari are on their way out.


I hope Nawazo keeps up this stupidity of arresting PTI workers and arresting IK. Remember third umpire is watching and his patience is running out.

Third umpire had a meeting with Ch Nisar, CM Shehbaz and Mr Dar from 4PM to 5:30PM according to ISPR about that leak news not dherna thing. According to media the meeting wasn't a happy one and third umpire wasn't ready to accept those small qurbani ke bakre. This arresting operation started just after that meeting maybe goverment was frustrated.
 
The thing is that this is not a usual protest march of few hours with the permission of an elected, legitimate government, in an advanced settled democracy.

With serious Panama revelations this govt has lost some of the legitimacy and this is not a perfect western democratic system where head of a state is not only answerable to parliament but also to his own party.
This is an imperfect system and this protest is not supposed to be just a random completely lawful gathering.

The head of the state has been exposed and his party or political class as a whole is unable to challenge him.
Now, PTI has already conducted many large public protest gatherings which did not convince PM to answer to his public and prove his legitimacy.
So, PTI has turned to more extreme step of bringing the capital to standstill which can't be considered a lawful step because it restricts people's freedom to move and earn. Just like lawyers did not care for people's right to free movement or livelihood during their movement for independence of judiciary, similarly this protest is politically and morally justified because in their view govt has lost legitimacy.

(those who know me have an idea that i have always been a pti supporter)

My question to my other pti supporters is that this was never meant to be a truly lawful lockdown because a lock-down of capital can't be termed legal in any sense. Imran said that they won't let this govt function. So is this crackdown and violence unexpected when you are threatening to bring the government at a standstill? I am all for a massive peaceful protest against corrupt rulers but did Imran not know that his support base is not violent, gullu type which could not brace police brutality?
I find these statements contradictory that on the one hand we will bring the govt to a halt and on the other hand the expected result would be very peaceful? How on earth govt can facilitate them to hurt the same govt?
 
Yeh Sheikh sahab ka account verify hogaya? Jahan tak muje yaad perta he a guy use to run this account not sheikh sahab
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="hi" dir="ltr">Bra Sher bna phirta hai<br>Jo ek laal haveli se darta hai</p>— Sheikh Rashid Ahmad (@ShkhRasheed) <a href="https://twitter.com/ShkhRasheed/status/791739125317632000">October 27, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
:))
 
The N league has decided to fight with both army and Imran. To them at worst it would be a political shahadat . They have already enjoyed 8 plus years in Punjab, after shahadat they will be back sooner or later.
 
The N league has decided to fight with both army and Imran. To them at worst it would be a political shahadat . They have already enjoyed 8 plus years in Punjab, after shahadat they will be back sooner or later.

They needed a political shahadat to get them out of all these troubles. Hamza/Maryam still have many years left to be our future PMs for 2 or 3 times.
 
Off topic but i am curious to know why there were big Shahid Afridi and Javed Afridi banners on stage of JUIF today in Maulana's jalsa?

CvzbTsyWgAEsI7F.jpg:small
 
I am of the opinion that the army will do nothing and the PTI is on its own. The PTI will have to make sacrifices at this point and when the chance comes then take revenge on these thugs.
 
I am of the opinion that the army will do nothing and the PTI is on its own. The PTI will have to make sacrifices at this point and when the chance comes then take revenge on these thugs.

Yes, army has no intention. But never doubt N league they can do anything.
 
Back
Top