[Reports] UAE to be considered as co-host for the ICC Champions Trophy 2025 amidst India's travel concerns and the return of the 'Hybrid Model'

[arunp]

No one is questioning Pakistan govt's hostile relation with India. My point is simple, we should have a consistent approach towards them. We play with them in every ICC & ACC events, intentionally ask the governing bodies to put us in the same group, our media & fans absolutely goes gaga for that match, journalists shows all bhai chaara in cross border shows and then when it comes to play them in bilaterals we think about Mumbai attacks, our dying soldiers, cross border terrorism etc.

Our journalists will show anything as long it sells the story and they get to do shows.

We don't want to travel Pakistan to play in Champions trophy as they are enemy nation but expect them to be in India for all global events where our fans lined up outside airport to take pictures with their players, Hyderabadi crowd chant 'Pakistan Zindabaad', media asks how they are enjoying Hyderabadi Biryani in press conference etc etc.

There was and is an affinity of Hyderabadis towards Pakistan. The Hyderabadi Nizam also escaped to Pakistan. Pakistan received an hostile reception in Ahmedabad.

Basically with this hybrid model, we are forcing the home team to fly in a foreign soil to play their home game against India abroad and also making other teams to do lots of unnecessary travel. We need not be so petty just bcoz we are rich.

Well, I guess Indian government needs to extract it's pound of flesh. Especially after tirade by Najam Sethi/Rameez Raja.

Champions Trophy awarded to Pakistan was mistake by Ganguly back then. It would have been ideal for BCCI to forefiet from this tournament and let other teams play.

Ganguly was a BCCI president. It is between ICC and PCB to decide if Pakistan is going to host. How do you know Ganguly did not object ? Good chance he was poor in boardroom negotiations.

Also, boycott all cricket ties with Pakistan unless the cross border terrorism stops.

Sure I agree as well. My only guess is it is a calibrated policy and GoI is playing on backfoot because they have not been accustomed to so much power and they do not know how to wield it well.

What we are doing now is using them based on our interest/convenience and then using border excuse when we don't want to play them. In the process, we are making it inconvenient for every cricket team around the world and cricket as a sport. This has to stop.

india is trying to weaken Pakistani assets, simple. Not sure what is so complicated with this. It is not complicated for any nation. Only PCB. My guess is good chance they will move CT 2025 out of Pakistan.

 

[rpant_gabba]

No one is questioning Pakistan govt's hostile relation with India. My point is simple, we should have a consistent approach towards them. We play with them in every ICC & ACC events, intentionally ask the governing bodies to put us in the same group, our media & fans absolutely goes gaga for that match, journalists shows all bhai chaara in cross border shows and then when it comes to play them in bilaterals we think about Mumbai attacks, our dying soldiers, cross border terrorism etc.

We don't want to travel Pakistan to play in Champions trophy as they are enemy nation but expect them to be in India for all global events where our fans lined up outside airport to take pictures with their players, Hyderabadi crowd chant 'Pakistan Zindabaad', media asks how they are enjoying Hyderabadi Biryani in press conference etc etc.

All of these sounds deeply fake and unfair arrangement to me. I am highly patriotic and yet strongly feel our stance against Pakistan as far as cricket is concerned is not consistent. Either you engage with them like you do with every other team or simply refuse to play them in any events. I am sure BCCI has enough clout to force ICC to keep Ind-Pak in separate groups.

Basically with this hybrid model, we are forcing the home team to fly in a foreign soil to play their home game against India abroad and also making other teams to do lots of unnecessary travel. We need not be so petty just bcoz we are rich.

Champions Trophy awarded to Pakistan was mistake by Ganguly back then. It would have been ideal for BCCI to forefiet from this tournament and let other teams play. Also, boycott all cricket ties with Pakistan unless the cross border terrorism stops. Now that will be a justified stance. What we are doing now is using them based on our interest/convenience and then using border excuse when we don't want to play them. In the process, we are making it inconvenient for every cricket team around the world and cricket as a sport. This has to stop.

BCCI is playing exactly how PCB has played it when it had any leverage at all.

The playing Pak in ICC tournament has been a practice to ensure to minimize the impact of Pak-India issues on the rest of cricketing world. I see a it as goodwill gesture by India to the cricket community. Over the years all India and BCCI got was abuse for that good will.

Pak and PCB's behavior is hardly one worthy of being rewarded with consistency. they have behaved in ways that is best for them. BCCI is and India is taking the same route

Should we completely disengage from pak: Yes, that. would be my preferred choice.

Let me ask you this. Why isn't PCB walking away? They have been crying about his issue for decade and half. All the while doing their very best to disrupt BCCI in every manner possible.

you want to reward them with consistency?

 

[nuttyprof]

BCCI is playing exactly how PCB has played it when it had any leverage at all.

The playing Pak in ICC tournament has been a practice to ensure to minimize the impact of Pak-India issues on the rest of cricketing world. I see a it as goodwill gesture by India to the cricket community. Over the years all India and BCCI got was abuse for that good will.

Pak and PCB's behavior is hardly one worthy of being rewarded with consistency. they have behaved in ways that is best for them. BCCI is and India is taking the same route

Should we completely disengage from pak: Yes, that. would be my preferred choice.

Let me ask you this. Why isn't PCB walking away? They have been crying about his issue for decade and half. All the while doing their very best to disrupt BCCI in every manner possible.

you want to reward them with consistency?

Truer words have never been uttered!!

 

[Bhaijaan]

As per sources, BCCI has successfully negotiated the moving of the CT match out of Pakistan. In return for this loss, they have given verbal commitment to send their full strength team if Pakistan are successful in bidding for 2041 Olympics. It’s a win win.

 

[Red-Indian]

Some vocal Indian voices continually assert India's superiority over Pakistan, especially in cricket. They argue that Pakistani cricket depends on India, while India doesn't need Pakistan. These voices often emphasize India's strengths and Pakistan's challenges.

While India's larger size, economic strength, and cricketing success are facts, constantly highlighting these differences doesn't foster positive relations between neighbors. The strategy of isolating Pakistan in cricket, citing "player safety," hasn't gained widespread support. Other countries continue to tour Pakistan, leaving India somewhat isolated in this approach.

India's achievements in economy and cricket are commendable. However, true regional leadership involves supporting neighbors' growth and fostering mutual benefits. Moving towards cooperation and empathy, rather than competition and dominance, could lead to more positive outcomes for both nations and the region as a whole. Thank you.

You're demanding a lot of maturity from a country that's still very uncertain of it's standing and place in the world.

India and Pakistan are not USA and Mexico that fought their wars a 100 years ago and now have settled into a superior-subordinate relationship and nowhere near USA and Canada that never had a history of antagonism. We are countries torn apart in a river of blood and the wounds are still relatively raw with scans opening up every few years or so.

Don't try to hold India to a different standard of maturity than yourselves. At this point, only expect what you're willing to give. Just as an example, allow trade with India...and demand cricketing relations. Dial down the rhetoric at the UN and OIC...India will stop isolating on FATF. Yes we should be working towards positive outcomes for the region but for the foreseeable future, Pakistan will have to give before it gets.

 

[BouncerGuy]

I guess we should not be turning this thread into a political debate. All this russia, china, FATF and trade talk is not fit for this thread. Please no more.

 

[adi_62941]

Empathy and collaboration was there in 2008 , When BCCI joined other Asian nations to participate in Pakistan while Australia had ditched Pakistan tour.
Then 26/11 happened , was that cooperation. BCCI still wanted to engage with Pakistan but was bound. What did PCB do, it sued BCCI over an MOU?
When you keep burning bridges, u can hardly be talking about mutual benefit, empathy and cooperation.
THANK YOU!

I agree. The BCCI supported the PCB during 2004-2009 until the Mumbai attacks happened. We played a lot of cricket during that period to the extent that India-Pakistan matches became regular events, and there was hardly any interest left in those matches. That was the turning point when Pakistani players opted out of IPL season 2 (which was, of course, a pressure tactic from the Pakistan government and PCB to make the BCCI realize the league would fail without Pakistani players, but the reality was the opposite).
PCB acts like a don; when they have a substance of power, they act like a fearless entity, but when they see things slipping from their hands, they become a naive and meek authority

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Since PCB jas no value and principles , BCCi should step up and barred Pakistan from 2026WT20 and 2027WC, make this announcement now so it serves as a wake up call for PCB

A fine line between foolishness and courage brother, it applies to both PCB and BCCI.
There are always going to be nutty suggestions.

 

[arunp]

Just as an example, allow trade with India...and demand cricketing relations. Dial down the rhetoric at the UN and OIC...India will stop isolating on FATF. Yes we should be working towards positive outcomes for the region but for the foreseeable future, Pakistan will have to give before it gets.

With due respect, I am not sure trade with India is gonna cut it. Even at the best of times, it was a small fraction of Indian trade and they do not provide anything that cannot be sourced from India at competitive pricing.

TBH I don't see any chance for rapprochement in the foreseeable future. If the escalation increases, public pressure will force BCCI will try to get PCB out of ICC.

 

[oatmeal]

Lol not only we let them in the country, BCCI even postponed the opening ceremony and decided to have it prior to Indo-Pak game 1 week after the tournament had started. Then after facing the backlash, the decided not to broadcast the event in TV and reserved only for crowd.

Remember in the last Asia cup only Ind-Pak game had reserve day? No other game had that, not even the finals.

So sometimes I fail to understand what is our stance as far Pakistan cricket is concerned. It is quiet evident from these gestures that BCCI considers the Pakistan game as the special one. Then not sure what is the harm in engaging with them completely like other teams are doing or just take a stand that unless cross border terrorism stops, India won't play Pakistan...world cup or no world cup.

It's because the India Pakistan game brings in a lot of revenue and BCCI loves the cheddar that it gets from the ICC revenue share.

No matter how rich the board is, tens of millions of dollars from that one game is no joke. But the reason BCCI can afford to be obstinate is that they can forgo the revenue due to other revenue streams. They can afford to walk away even if its at that cost. For the smaller boards it would cause a lot of deeper cuts which no administrator wants.

This CT should be the last time this farcical back and forth happens. BCCI should make their and GOI's stance clear for all future tourneys. Broadcasters and fans deserve that clarity

 

[Red-Indian]

With due respect, I am not sure trade with India is gonna cut it. Even at the best of times, it was a small fraction of Indian trade and they do not provide anything that cannot be sourced from India at competitive pricing.

TBH I don't see any chance for rapprochement in the foreseeable future. If the escalation increases, public pressure will force BCCI will try to get PCB out of ICC.

I don't know. I can just say that if any government is well placed to reciprocate to an olive branch from Pakistan, it's this one.


I only use trade as an example of an olive branch. I didn't actually means those specific steps.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It's because the India Pakistan game brings in a lot of revenue and BCCI loves the cheddar that it gets from the ICC revenue share.

No matter how rich the board is, tens of millions of dollars from that one game is no joke. But the reason BCCI can afford to be obstinate is that they can forgo the revenue due to other revenue streams. They can afford to walk away even if its at that cost. For the smaller boards it would cause a lot of deeper cuts which no administrator wants.

This CT should be the last time this farcical back and forth happens. BCCI should make their and GOI's stance clear for all future tourneys. Broadcasters and fans deserve that clarity

Does ICC sell rights of India Pakistan matches separately? If yes then please tell me how much was paid for it.

If no then your assumption has no basis.

BCCI's revenue from IPL abd its home matches will be $7bn plus over 5 years as per the last deals signed in 2022 and 2023. Not a single pakistani is involved in this.

Its proven that Pakistanis are not required to get revenues from Indian fans.

So this India Pakistan match brings a lot of revenue is a wrong assumption on which pakistanis base their opinion.

 

[oatmeal]

Does ICC sell rights of India Pakistan matches separately? If yes then please tell me how much was paid for it.

If no then your assumption has no basis.

BCCI's revenue from IPL abd its home matches will be $7bn plus over 5 years as per the last deals signed in 2022 and 2023. Not a single pakistani is involved in this.

Its proven that Pakistanis are not required to get revenues from Indian fans.

So this India Pakistan match brings a lot of revenue is a wrong assumption on which pakistanis base their opinion.

Duh, obviously this can never this be definitively proven, no one has access to the internal financial models of broadcasters that they use to bid. But they factor in a certain number of matches that India and Pakistan will play at ICC events to set their bidding rights. It's basically an educated guess

But what is known is the ad revenue from the India Pakistan game is the highest among league stage games. So broadcasters undeniably make a lot of money from the game and consequently use the projected revenues to determine their bid amount.

This is not always the right amount. Disney's bid for India rights was a massive overpay which they are now looking to offload. I am willing to bet that the next 4 year bid slot wont fetch the same amount in inflation adjusted terms

 

[BouncerGuy]

I guess we should not be turning this thread into a political debate. All this russia, china, FATF and trade talk is not fit for this thread. Please no more.

AGAIN FOR ALL OF YOU GUYS>

 

[hamzi]

It is already evident to see how cricket became world wide sport under the great leadership of Australia and England before BCCI took over.

In every other sport it doesn't happen? Why the hell Russian athletes are banned then? Why Germany was allowed to held Olympic in 1936 as a part of appeasement approach?

Matlab kuch bhi..... Facts can go to dustbin but I'll write whatever I want while closing my eyes and deny the reality.

What world wide sport? One where only 12 nations play? Even then only 4-5 compete at the top level?

How is Russia even remotely relevant here? Are you comparing Russia to Pakistan Cricket? What facts are you talking about? Is Pakistan currently invading India? Are Russians banned in only 1 sport because Ukraine is dominating that sport? Are Russians not able to compete in the Olympics just not with their flag? Facts are being thrown in the dustbin just not by me.

Try to understand that Indian athletes are coming to Pakistan in every other sport just not Cricket!! Are the other athletes lives not important? Are they not stopped by the Government? Does the Policy not apply to them? Or is it because India dictates Cricket?

 

[gazza619]

BCCI is playing exactly how PCB has played it when it had any leverage at all.

The playing Pak in ICC tournament has been a practice to ensure to minimize the impact of Pak-India issues on the rest of cricketing world. I see a it as goodwill gesture by India to the cricket community. Over the years all India and BCCI got was abuse for that good will.

Pak and PCB's behavior is hardly one worthy of being rewarded with consistency. they have behaved in ways that is best for them. BCCI is and India is taking the same route

Should we completely disengage from pak: Yes, that. would be my preferred choice.

Let me ask you this. Why isn't PCB walking away? They have been crying about his issue for decade and half. All the while doing their very best to disrupt BCCI in every manner possible.

you want to reward them with consistency?

It pains me to say this but I agree with you. Pakistani establishment and its shenanigans are well documented. I can’t imagine what they would have done if Pakistan were a world super power.

 

[Itachi]

What world wide sport? One where only 12 nations play? Even then only 4-5 compete at the top level?

How is Russia even remotely relevant here? Are you comparing Russia to Pakistan Cricket? What facts are you talking about? Is Pakistan currently invading India? Are Russians banned in only 1 sport because Ukraine is dominating that sport? Are Russians not able to compete in the Olympics just not with their flag? Facts are being thrown in the dustbin just not by me.

Try to understand that Indian athletes are coming to Pakistan in every other sport just not Cricket!! Are the other athletes lives not important? Are they not stopped by the Government? Does the Policy not apply to them? Or is it because India dictates Cricket?

It is because India dictates cricket.

If you go out in the street, then will you be targeted because you are hamzi? Most probably no.

But if IK goes out in the street, then he might get targeted.

Does it mean as a human being, you have less value than IK?

Ofcourse not.

Similar for Indian cricketers and other athletes.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Duh, obviously this can never this be definitively proven, no one has access to the internal financial models of broadcasters that they use to bid. But they factor in a certain number of matches that India and Pakistan will play at ICC events to set their bidding rights. It's basically an educated guess

But what is known is the ad revenue from the India Pakistan game is the highest among league stage games. So broadcasters undeniably make a lot of money from the game and consequently use the projected revenues to determine their bid amount.

This is not always the right amount. Disney's bid for India rights was a massive overpay which they are now looking to offload. I am willing to bet that the next 4 year bid slot wont fetch the same amount in inflation adjusted terms

The same broadcaster went to nearly 6bn usd to try and get the IPL rights. IPL where no pakistani is involved.

Why? Simply because every IPL match will have Indian stars and hence Indian audience is guaranteed.

Broadcasters factor in the number of India games so that they get tye Indian audience.

Ad revenues for which broadcaster? Disney? Sky? PTV? Geo?Nine?

Disney had a tacit understanding with Zee that Zee won't bid and Disney will share the rights with Zee. That's why the bid.

Ofcourse none of the cricket rights in India will get the same bid next time. Not even IPL. Reason is that the two main contenders Disney and Viacom18(owned by reliance of Ambani) are merging.

Add to that the fact that Zee is tethering near bankruptcy.

So except Sony there will not be another bidder and Sony are known be very conservative.

Unless the Disney-Viacom18 merger falls through or someone with deep pockets ties up with Zee, cricket tv rights in India won't see the competitive bidding it saw last time.

Ofcourse there is a small chance that one of the big techs may bid for OTT rights, sending the bids up.

 

[oatmeal]

The same broadcaster went to nearly 6bn usd to try and get the IPL rights. IPL where no pakistani is involved.

Why? Simply because every IPL match will have Indian stars and hence Indian audience is guaranteed.

Broadcasters factor in the number of India games so that they get tye Indian audience.

Ad revenues for which broadcaster? Disney? Sky? PTV? Geo?Nine?

Disney had a tacit understanding with Zee that Zee won't bid and Disney will share the rights with Zee. That's why the bid.

Ofcourse none of the cricket rights in India will get the same bid next time. Not even IPL. Reason is that the two main contenders Disney and Viacom18(owned by reliance of Ambani) are merging.

Add to that the fact that Zee is tethering near bankruptcy.

So except Sony there will not be another bidder and Sony are known be very conservative.

Unless the Disney-Viacom18 merger falls through or someone with deep pockets ties up with Zee, cricket tv rights in India won't see the competitive bidding it saw last time.

Ofcourse there is a small chance that one of the big techs may bid for OTT rights, sending the bids up.

Your argument makes no sense, The fact that IPL is bringing in a lot of revenue doesnt mean that the India pakistan game is not bringing in tens of millions of dollars, It's not an either or. Its all cumulative and giving that game up will mean hundreds of millions of dollars reducing over the bid period of which a big share goes to the BCCI. They could survive without this revenue but it doesnt meant they want to forgo it. The ad spots for the India Pakistan group stage game were comparable to the knock out stages which isnt true for any other game.

In fact its very easy for BCCI to force ICC's hand and ask them not to schedule India Pakistan in the same group and only play them in the knockouts. The reason this is not done is it reduces the value of the broadcasting rights across the board and no party wants this.

If a bid is forcing its bidders to bankruptcy or sale, then it was an overpay. They will have to honour this broadcasting cycle but eventually the market will find the optimal value. The falling INR vis-a-vis the USD doesnt help either and the next bids will see a more sustainable pricing

 

[Red-Indian]

Your argument makes no sense, The fact that IPL is bringing in a lot of revenue doesnt mean that the India pakistan game is not bringing in tens of millions of dollars, It's not an either or. Its all cumulative and giving that game up will mean hundreds of millions of dollars reducing over the bid period of which a big share goes to the BCCI. They could survive without this revenue but it doesnt meant they want to forgo it. The ad spots for the India Pakistan group stage game were comparable to the knock out stages which isnt true for any other game.

In fact its very easy for BCCI to force ICC's hand and ask them not to schedule India Pakistan in the same group and only play them in the knockouts. The reason this is not done is it reduces the value of the broadcasting rights across the board and no party wants this.

If a bid is forcing its bidders to bankruptcy or sale, then it was an overpay. They will have to honour this broadcasting cycle but eventually the market will find the optimal value. The falling INR vis-a-vis the USD doesnt help either and the next bids will see a more sustainable pricing

From what I've heard from people in the know, part of this broadcasting deal for the ICC includes a confirmation for Men's LOI event every year with an India-Pakistan match included. Failing to deliver that will give the broadcaster (specifically Disney-Star) an option to revoke the offer for the year. Given the state of competition in the Indian sports broadcast market, it's perfectly possible the offered amount will decline dramatically if the deal is reopened for bidding.

@cricketjoshila is right though. The next bidding cycle for ICC rights will be a very nervous time for all of world cricket. Jio has no real competition unless someone like Amazon or Netflix comes in.

 

[Mesozoic]

If you go out in the street, then will you be targeted because you are hamzi? Most probably no.

But if IK goes out in the street, then he might get targeted.

Does it mean as a human being, you have less value than IK?

This is what most people on this site fail to understand and choose to ignore.

South Africa, Sri Lanka or Uganda touring Pakistan is not the same thing as the Indian senior cricket team coming to Pakistan and playing an ICC tournament.

 

[oatmeal]

From what I've heard from people in the know, part of this broadcasting deal for the ICC includes a confirmation for Men's LOI event every year with an India-Pakistan match included. Failing to deliver that will give the broadcaster (specifically Disney-Star) an option to revoke the offer for the year. Given the state of competition in the Indian sports broadcast market, it's perfectly possible the offered amount will decline dramatically if the deal is reopened for bidding.

@cricketjoshila is right though. The next bidding cycle for ICC rights will be a very nervous time for all of world cricket. Jio has no real competition unless someone like Amazon or Netflix comes in.

This is my contention too. There is no way Disney would have felt confident enough to bid such a high amount without getting some assurances - written or otherwise about an guaranteed match. @cricketjoshila's point that this is just another game is clearly wrong.

The ad spots were going for 20 lakhs as per my googling. Finals were in this range of 25-30 lakhs so clearly the India Pakistan game is a huge money spinner for everyone involved and no party (ICC, PCB, BCCI) wants to walk away from their revenue share. Otherwise the option to refuse to play the other side in the group stages is available to them very easily

Competition is very good for price discovery but the allure of Indian cricket has led to a lot of companies over the years going bust because they bid an unsustainable amount. BCCI should demand financial guarantees from any company bidding.

 

[Red-Indian]

This is my contention too. There is no way Disney would have felt confident enough to bid such a high amount without getting some assurances - written or otherwise about an guaranteed match. @cricketjoshila's point that this is just another game is clearly wrong.

The ad spots were going for 20 lakhs as per my googling. Finals were in this range of 25-30 lakhs so clearly the India Pakistan game is a huge money spinner for everyone involved and no party (ICC, PCB, BCCI) wants to walk away from their revenue share. Otherwise the option to refuse to play the other side in the group stages is available to them very easily

Competition is very good for price discovery but the allure of Indian cricket has led to a lot of companies over the years going bust because they bid an unsustainable amount. BCCI should demand financial guarantees from any company bidding.

You're right...they cannot. It would be just too risky at this current point in the Indian television market with so little time left in the year. They cannot afford to give Disney Star the slightest excuse to pull out of the deal for the year.

The bidding strategies for the next deal will be very interesting. Most international leagues (Premier League, NFL, NBA) have broken it into packages and let different media entities bid for packages thereby diversifying the revenue streams and letting companies like Amazon and Apple dip their toes into sports broadcasting/streaming so as develop them for the future. I expect IPL will definitely go in that direction for the next cycle and you'll have to subscribe to more than one service if you want to watch all the games. The ICC has it tougher. They really one have a month (or less) of cricket to sell each year. All the other stuff like Women's World Cups, U19 etc. are just ancillary.

A lot depends on India-Pakistan games for world cricket...at least for 2025 and 2026.

 

[cricketjoshila]

From what I've heard from people in the know, part of this broadcasting deal for the ICC includes a confirmation for Men's LOI event every year with an India-Pakistan match included. Failing to deliver that will give the broadcaster (specifically Disney-Star) an option to revoke the offer for the year. Given the state of competition in the Indian sports broadcast market, it's perfectly possible the offered amount will decline dramatically if the deal is reopened for bidding.

@cricketjoshila is right though. The next bidding cycle for ICC rights will be a very nervous time for all of world cricket. Jio has no real competition unless someone like Amazon or Netflix comes in.

If there was such a clause, atleast one media outlet would have reported it.

 

[Red-Indian]

If there was such a clause, atleast one media outlet would have reported it.

I have no evidence but the person I heard it from should know. Let's wait and see. If there's no such clause, I guess it should be easier to either drop India from the Tournament or at the least switch groups to avoid an India-Pakistan game and let Pakistan play all it's games at home.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Your argument makes no sense, The fact that IPL is bringing in a lot of revenue doesnt mean that the India pakistan game is not bringing in tens of millions of dollars, It's not an either or. Its all cumulative and giving that game up will mean hundreds of millions of dollars reducing over the bid period of which a big share goes to the BCCI. They could survive without this revenue but it doesnt meant they want to forgo it. The ad spots for the India Pakistan group stage game were comparable to the knock out stages which isnt true for any other game.

In fact its very easy for BCCI to force ICC's hand and ask them not to schedule India Pakistan in the same group and only play them in the knockouts. The reason this is not done is it reduces the value of the broadcasting rights across the board and no party wants this.

If a bid is forcing its bidders to bankruptcy or sale, then it was an overpay. They will have to honour this broadcasting cycle but eventually the market will find the optimal value. The falling INR vis-a-vis the USD doesnt help either and the next bids will see a more sustainable pricing

Disney bid 3bn for Indian territory. Its proven by IPL and BCCI home matches that to earn 100s of millions from the Indian territory pakistanis are not needed.

Any match where Indian stars play will bring in huge revenues. Unless you claim that Pakistan is very big revenue earning territory in itself your claim has no basis.

BCCI doesn't interfere in match scheduling. That would be unfair advantage.

The bid was made because Disney and Zee entered into an agreement to share the rights. And also because after losing the IPL rights to Viacom18 Disney was desperate to get ICC rights.

Falling INR? INR is one of the least volatile currencies in Asia .

The only reason why bids may be lesser because the two biggest competitors are merging.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I have no evidence but the person I heard it from should know. Let's wait and see. If there's no such clause, I guess it should be easier to either drop India from the Tournament or at the least switch groups to avoid an India-Pakistan game and let Pakistan play all it's games at home.

Every important detail of such agreements leak out. ICC never revealed the bids for its rights sale. But media got the info.

If there was such a clause as you claimed, it would have leaked out the moment participation of India was in doubt.

 

[oatmeal]

Disney bid 3bn for Indian territory. Its proven by IPL and BCCI home matches that to earn 100s of millions from the Indian territory pakistanis are not needed.

Any match where Indian stars play will bring in huge revenues. Unless you claim that Pakistan is very big revenue earning territory in itself your claim has no basis.

BCCI doesn't interfere in match scheduling. That would be unfair advantage.

Again, you are making an argument which doesnt compute at all. If India Pakistan game ad spots are selling for 20 lakhs a minute , way higher than other group stages, this is factored in by Disney while making the bid. This is the market determing the interest for the India Pakistan game because if they aren't able to sell the slots , the price will come down.

Why is the final ad spot going only for 25 lakhs compared to a possibly inconsequential group stage game going for 20 lakhs.

BCCI interferes in every aspect of the tournament scheduling, they dont here because they dont want to let go of the money that is made. that doesnt mean they are not making other large revenues from IPL and bilaterals, but they will get to keep it regardless and there are many mouths to feed

The bid was made because Disney and Zee entered into an agreement to share the rights. And also because after losing the IPL rights to Viacom18 Disney was desperate to get ICC rights.

Falling INR? INR is one of the least volatile currencies in Asia .

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

The only reason why bids may be lesser because the two biggest competitors are merging.

Zee backed out because there were concerns over its profitability . They couldnt afford the promised amount. the other bidders offered 50% of what Disney offered, which means disney massively overvalued the revenue it would have received.

INR is close to all time low against the USD . Its been slowly sliding for the last few years now. So those dollar amounts in contracts will also subsequently reduce as well

 

[cricketjoshila]

Again, you are making an argument which doesnt compute at all. If India Pakistan game ad spots are selling for 20 lakhs a minute , way higher than other group stages, this is factored in by Disney while making the bid. This is the market determing the interest for the India Pakistan game because if they aren't able to sell the slots , the price will come down.

Why is the final ad spot going only for 25 lakhs compared to a possibly inconsequential group stage game going for 20 lakhs.

BCCI interferes in every aspect of the tournament scheduling, they dont here because they dont want to let go of the money that is made. that doesnt mean they are not making other large revenues from IPL and bilaterals, but they will get to keep it regardless and there are many mouths to feed



Zee backed out because there were concerns over its profitability . They couldnt afford the promised amount. the other bidders offered 50% of what Disney offered, which means disney massively overvalued the revenue it would have received.

INR is close to all time low against the USD . Its been slowly sliding for the last few years now. So those dollar amounts in contracts will also subsequently reduce as well

FYI India-Pakistan wasn't even the most watched match in the group stage.

What was the ad rates for other India matches?

Where does BCCI interfere in scheduling of matches unless they are the hosts?

Zee couldn't pay because Zee's merger with Sony fell through. Zee is under investigation for diversion of funds by promoters.

Other bids were not in the same range because

1. This was a Disney bid with a tacit understanding with Zee that Zee will share half the payment. And Disney was desperate after losing IPL rights to Viacom18.

2. Viacom 18 had already paid a lot for the IPL rights and hence they were conservative.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Warning:

Let's stick to the topic of the thread instead of discussing media rights and revenue

 

[BouncerGuy]

So India is not coming?

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

So India is not coming?

Yaar, are we going to quote "letters to the editor" as final sources now?
Let ICC release something after the current AGM which is ongoing.

 

[Mesozoic]

Don't think PCB cares about hosting ICC trophy. Goal is to get India into a contract for bilaterals.

At the end of day, it's all down to $$$$..

PCB will happily let go off their hosting rights to any ICC event permanently in exchange of regular bilaterals with India even in neutral venues. Just check how much CA and ECB make with one full tour of India..

 

[Red-Indian]

At the end of day, it's all down to $$$$..

PCB will happily let go off their hosting rights to any ICC event permanently in exchange of regular bilaterals with India even in neutral venues. Just check how much CA and ECB make with one full tour of India..

I'm actually surprised we're done with the ICC conference and haven't seen a single credible leak. The backroom deals must be frenetic and literal smoke must be coming out of people's ears.

I guess we'll see a few leaks and official statements tomorrow as the representatives return to their countries

 

[cricketjoshila]

Neither will happen from the BCCI's side.

Ultimately ICC members will decide.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Neither will happen from the BCCI's side.

Ultimately ICC members will decide.

Don't think ICC members are going to decide on the bilaterals.

I personally will be very disappointed with NaMo if they sign of on the bilaterals

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Just hope Pakistan refuses to tour India in the future because of legitimate security concerns.

Let's face it when we have psychopath Mp/Pandits demanding the deaths of 200k muslims for slaughtering a cow ! Then every thing else is secondary and health comes first

And as long as Pakistan has series with England , Australia, kiwis, South Africa on a regular basis, I don't care.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Don't think ICC members are going to decide on the bilaterals.

I personally will be very disappointed with NaMo if they sign of on the bilaterals

ICC members will decide how the CT will be played. Hence PCB's attempt to milk the BCCI won't work.

 

[Red-Indian]

Doesn't ring true to me to be honest. A bilateral series is a lot more high profile and likely to attract political opposition than just traveling for an ICC tournament where the government can always pass the blame on to the ICC for being forced to play in Pakistan.

If it's just a matter of Dollars, the easier thing would be for India to just take a small cut it's share of ICC revenues - say $10-20m and let that money be awarded to the PCB under the pretext of 'compensation for the costs of hosting a hybrid tournament.' Everyone would get to claim victory
- India can claim to have won the moral battle and not travelled
- Pakistan can claim to have forced compensation
- ICC can pretend total peace and harmony among it's member's in a unanimous decision on the tournament

 

[rpant_gabba]

Doesn't ring true to me to be honest. A bilateral series is a lot more high profile and likely to attract political opposition than just traveling for an ICC tournament where the government can always pass the blame on to the ICC for being forced to play in Pakistan.

If it's just a matter of Dollars, the easier thing would be for India to just take a small cut it's share of ICC revenues - say $10-20m and let that money be awarded to the PCB under the pretext of 'compensation for the costs of hosting a hybrid tournament.' Everyone would get to claim victory
- India can claim to have won the moral battle and not travelled
- Pakistan can claim to have forced compensation
- ICC can pretend total peace and harmony among it's member's in a unanimous decision on the tournament

Reports indicate that PCB is pushing for neutral venue bilateral.

They would like to get a binding contract and use it as leverage

A bit delusional if you ask me. Then again it is PCB

 

[Red-Indian]

Reports indicate that PCB is pushing for neutral venue bilateral.

They would like to get a binding contract and use it as leverage

A bit delusional if you ask me. Then again it is PCB

Not long left. The conference ends today I think. By tomorrow, there'll be leaks all over the place. As long as you add a little discretion to the interpretations, it should be possible to get at the conclusion.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Reports indicate that PCB is pushing for neutral venue bilateral.

They would like to get a binding contract and use it as leverage

A bit delusional if you ask me. Then again it is PCB

If PCB thinks it can arm twist India into a neutral territory bilateral in return for the CT being played in a hybrid model, they're mistaken.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Not long left. The conference ends today I think. By tomorrow, there'll be leaks all over the place. As long as you add a little discretion to the interpretations, it should be possible to get at the conclusion.

It will be throughly disappointing if BCCI hands any leverage to PCB

 

[Red-Indian]

It will be throughly disappointing if BCCI hands any leverage to PCB

I think you said it earlier - the BCCI has all the real cards. If they do make any concessions, it will be for specific reasons and on instructions from the very top...not out of the goodness of anyone's heart.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I have another out of the box idea. BCCI should propose to host Pakistan for a 3 match T20i series in Bharat itself to compensate them for not travelling to Pakistan to play CT2025.

 

[Thanos]

What's the latest update? When did bilateral came into the picture?

 

[kingusama92]

Reports indicate that PCB is pushing for neutral venue bilateral.

They would like to get a binding contract and use it as leverage

A bit delusional if you ask me. Then again it is PCB

It seems a bit far-fetched.

Pakistan has no leverage to do something like this. This would only happen if India were desperate to play in the CT, which is not happening. Perhaps, it would have been more believable if it was the ODI World Cup.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

I have another out of the box idea. BCCI should propose to host Pakistan for a 3 match T20i series in Bharat itself to compensate them for not travelling to Pakistan to play CT2025.

India Pakistan series in India hosted by PCB. We fans get our rivalry, PCB will get some money, GoI can maintain the stance of not going to Pakistan. everyone happy!! If its troubling just put an ICC tag on it by naming it ICC-friendship Trophy.
Problem solved

 

[Bhaijaan]

India Pakistan series in India hosted by PCB. We fans get our rivalry, PCB will get some money, GoI can maintain the stance of not going to Pakistan. everyone happy!! If its troubling just put an ICC tag on it by naming it ICC-friendship Trophy.
Problem solved

The quality of ideas here is quite incredible.

 

[harshjoshi87]

As per latest reports there was no BCCI-PCB discussion about India's visit to Pakistan for Champions Trophy.
====
The four-day International Cricket Council (ICC) Annual Conference ended in Colombo today and there was no discussion around the 2025 Champions Trophy. The matter wasn’t on the agenda of the Annual General Meeting (AGM) today and there were no discussions even on the sidelines.

“It wasn’t on the agenda so it wasn’t brought up or discussed during the Annual General Meeting," says an official who attended the AGM.

A senior Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI) official, who was present in Colombo for all four days, confirmed that there was no dialogue between BCCI and Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) on the Champions Trophy.

“It isn’t a bilateral where two boards will hold discussions. No dialogue happened between us and PCB on the Champions Trophy. Since it wasn’t on any of the agendas, it wasn’t discussed during the AGM too. It is still time away and ICC will handle it," says a top BCCI official.

A senior Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI) official, who was present in Colombo for all four days, confirmed that there was no dialogue between BCCI and Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) on the Champions Trophy.

“It isn’t a bilateral where two boards will hold discussions. No dialogue happened between us and PCB on the Champions Trophy. Since it wasn’t on any of the agendas, it wasn’t discussed during the AGM too. It is still time away and ICC will handle it," says a top BCCI official.

No BCCI-PCB Dialogue on 2025 Champions Trophy at ICC Annual Conference - News18

There was no discussion on the Champions Trophy at the ICC Annual Conference in Sri Lanka. Pakistan are the designated hosts for the tournament next year.

www.news18.com

 

[Nikhil_cric]

As per latest reports there was no BCCI-PCB discussion about India's visit to Pakistan for Champions Trophy.

No BCCI-PCB Dialogue on 2025 Champions Trophy at ICC Annual Conference - News18

There was no discussion on the Champions Trophy at the ICC Annual Conference in Sri Lanka. Pakistan are the designated hosts for the tournament next year.

www.news18.com

Looks like we are going to Pakistan for CT.

 

[offstump]

As per latest reports there was no BCCI-PCB discussion about India's visit to Pakistan for Champions Trophy.

No BCCI-PCB Dialogue on 2025 Champions Trophy at ICC Annual Conference - News18

There was no discussion on the Champions Trophy at the ICC Annual Conference in Sri Lanka. Pakistan are the designated hosts for the tournament next year.

www.news18.com

This is odd, wasn’t this one of the main agenda topics?

 

[Red-Indian]

Looks like we are going to Pakistan for CT.

I'd be surprised if that happens with so little drama. There's got to be a lot of superficial bonhomie to accompany it. Whether they actually mean it or not - both countries will start talking about new beginnings, opportunities for collaboration etc.

 

[Red-Indian]

This is odd, wasn’t this one of the main agenda topics?

No it wasn't. Speculation was that it would be raised under "Any other matters." We would've heard if something was discussed by now. Plenty of leaks have happened on the corruption in the US Cricket Association and how the World cup went over budget by $20m.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I'd be surprised if that happens with so little drama. There's got to be a lot of superficial bonhomie to accompany it. Whether they actually mean it or not - both countries will start talking about new beginnings, opportunities for collaboration etc.

Id have thought so too but in the current Indian political climate, it can invite extreme reactions.

Maybe BCCI/GOI are using this CT to test the waters a little bit?

 

[Red-Indian]

Id have thought so too but in the current Indian political climate, it can invite extreme reactions.

Maybe BCCI/GOI are using this CT to test the waters a little bit?

Possible but unlikely per me. I'm guessing both countries have just decided to postpone the decision for 3 months to test the waters. Tickets don't need to go on sale till November or so...that'll be the deadline to finally take a call.

 

[Savak]

PCB are living in fools paradise to rely on the BCCI and ICC. BCCI at the very last second are going to refuse to tour Pakistan and then will get ECB, Cricket Australia and other boards on their sides who will vote to get the tournament out of Pakistan and the ICC will comply and the PCB will not have any time for any other contingency plans. PCB needs to have a Plan B ready now.

 

[offstump]

PCB are living in fools paradise to rely on the BCCI and ICC. BCCI at the very last second are going to refuse to tour Pakistan and then will get ECB, Cricket Australia and other boards on their sides who will vote to get the tournament out of Pakistan and the ICC will comply and the PCB will not have any time for any other contingency plans. PCB needs to have a Plan B ready now.

Why does PCB need a contingency plan? Preparation is in full swing to hold the CT in Pakistan. If anything the ICC needs to get their act together and hold boards accountable for refusing to send their teams at the last minute. It’s not Pakistan’s responsibility to find alternate venues.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I'd be surprised if that happens with so little drama. There's got to be a lot of superficial bonhomie to accompany it. Whether they actually mean it or not - both countries will start talking about new beginnings, opportunities for collaboration etc.

And Modi will resign and BJP government will fall.

 

[Savak]

Why does PCB need a contingency plan? Preparation is in full swing to hold the CT in Pakistan. If anything the ICC needs to get their act together and hold boards accountable for refusing to send their teams at the last minute. It’s not Pakistan’s responsibility to find alternate venues.

What should happen and what actually happens are two different things.

 

[Kianig89]

The practical solution from all this scenario is:

PCB agrees for a hybrid model in return for a home series of 3 T20s at neutral venue from BCCI.

BCCI sighting jam packed scheduling offers the series to played in 2nd part of 2025 after CT.

PCB knowing BCCI' cunning approach ask for a X no. Of funds in cash as futures in lieu of revenue for the home series.

All this can be done in one hour meeting but with BCCI's stubbornness, ICC being insipid and PCB being foolish has made it impossible.

May be CA and EWCB if they have some meritocracy should mediate

 

[Bhaijaan]

BCCI will hold PCB hostage until they see bent knees.

 

[harshjoshi87]

Looks like we are going to Pakistan for CT.

Yes surprisingly no report on India's visit from the BCCI or PCB.

Don't think India will travel under current circumstances.

 

[harshjoshi87]

I'd be surprised if that happens with so little drama. There's got to be a lot of superficial bonhomie to accompany it. Whether they actually mean it or not - both countries will start talking about new beginnings, opportunities for collaboration etc.

Looks like India-Pakistan will play a T20I series at a neutral venue if PCB accepts the hybrid model.

 

[oatmeal]

Looks like India-Pakistan will play a T20I series at a neutral venue if PCB accepts the hybrid model.

It's just not going to happen. GoI won't give approval for bilaterals without any corresponding diplomatic initiative which isn't happening

BCCI will just wait till the last possible minute and then PCB will have to either accept a hybrid model or risk the entire tournament being moved out. I doubt they will hold firm in the face of pressure

 

[rpant_gabba]

Looks like India-Pakistan will play a T20I series at a neutral venue if PCB accepts the hybrid model.

Based on what?

Inside source? Your opinion?

Both of which run contrary to 10+ years BCCI pcb interactions.

 

[rpant_gabba]

The practical solution from all this scenario is:

PCB agrees for a hybrid model in return for a home series of 3 T20s at neutral venue from BCCI.

BCCI sighting jam packed scheduling offers the series to played in 2nd part of 2025 after CT.

PCB knowing BCCI' cunning approach ask for a X no. Of funds in cash as futures in lieu of revenue for the home series.

All this can be done in one hour meeting but with BCCI's stubbornness, ICC being insipid and PCB being foolish has made it impossible.

May be CA and EWCB if they have some meritocracy should mediate

Sure BCCI will also share it rev 50 50, so will GOI

All in the name of reciprocity of brotherly love from Pakistan

 

[deltexas]

BCCI will hold PCB hostage until they see bent knees.

Don't want to be rude or mean or get into rights and wrongs- but this will be the reality. Pcb really has no say here. Pak posters here can get riled up etc but this will what will happen. Pcb will agree to a hybrid model with one sf and final in uae or sl.

 

[Savak]

Incompetence of the Pakistani government bothers me. This is an issue which needs to be resolved at a Govt to Govt level. They are the ones who should be taking the lead here and reaching out to the Indian Government. The Sharif brothers who boast about their close relationship with the BJP and Modi government should take the lead. PCB and BCCI dealing with this issue is not enough.

 

[Sunny_majoka]

Incompetence of the Pakistani government bothers me. This is an issue which needs to be resolved at a Govt to Govt level. They are the ones who should be taking the lead here and reaching out to the Indian Government. The Sharif brothers who boast about their close relationship with the BJP and Modi government should take the lead. PCB and BCCI dealing with this issue is not enough.

No. Let ICC decide. Pakistan should stay firm either play whole tournament in Pakistan or play without Pakistan in an other country.

 

[arunp]

No. Let ICC decide. Pakistan should stay firm either play whole tournament in Pakistan or play without Pakistan in an other country.

Sure. Chances of it being played without Pakistan are higher than it being played in Pakistan.

 

[BouncerGuy]

While it is true that ICC might not be happy taking the risk of losing revenue in case of India's absence, it is a chance for Pakistan to hold its position for once and host the event no matter if India comes or not.

 

[cricketjoshila]

While it is true that ICC might not be happy taking the risk of losing revenue in case of India's absence, it is a chance for Pakistan to hold its position for once and host the event no matter if India comes or not.

Thing is that the decision isn't with Pakistan or PCB. Neither it's with BCCI.

The decision is with ICC executive board, in case of any divergence in opinion, vote will be taken.

 

[harshjoshi87]

Based on what?

Inside source? Your opinion?

Both of which run contrary to 10+ years BCCI pcb interactions.

It was all over the news yesterday.

Obviously BCCI won't agree for a series like this.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Basit Ali speaking on his YouTube channel:

"5-6 boards jo haina dum hilate huye woh baat karenge jo Jay Shah bolenge (Those 5-6 boards just follow whatever Jay Shah says). PCB Chairman Mohsin Naqvi has been given a lollipop. Basically, he's been told (by other boards) that after the Champions Trophy, we (Pakistan) should play a bilateral series against India. Whether it's in Australia or England, they'll (other boards) convince India to play,”

“If he says the Champions Trophy will be in Pakistan, they’ll agree. If he says it’ll be a hybrid model, they’ll go with that too. It’s because when their players play in the IPL, BCCI pays their boards a huge amount whether it’s the English board, New Zealand board, West Indies board, or Australian board,"

"I think that if the bilateral series isn't happening in India or Pakistan, the Pakistan board should say no to playing in a third country. If India is not willing to play in our country, then we shouldn't agree to play the series in another country either,"​

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

ICC had bigger fish to fry about the losses in US leg of T20 world Cup.
All rumors, Champions Trophy didn't even get discussed at the AGM . Lets stretch these threads longer for another couple of months

 

[Sunny_majoka]

Sure. Chances of it being played without Pakistan are higher than it being played in Pakistan.

Sure at least it'll expose ICC and it's irrelevant presence.

 

[Sunny_majoka]

ICC had bigger fish to fry about the losses in US leg of T20 world Cup.
All rumors, Champions Trophy didn't even get discussed at the AGM . Lets stretch these threads longer for another couple of months

This also shows ICC isn't worried. Still we haven't heard any official statement from BCCI for not touring to Pakistan.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

This also shows ICC isn't worried. Still we haven't heard any official statement from BCCI for not touring to Pakistan.

Just like Asia Cup after all the chest thumping and threats and accusations, we will have a hybrid model. Decision will be made a couple of months before the tournament.

 

[adi_62941]

Basit Ali speaking on his YouTube channel:

"5-6 boards jo haina dum hilate huye woh baat karenge jo Jay Shah bolenge (Those 5-6 boards just follow whatever Jay Shah says). PCB Chairman Mohsin Naqvi has been given a lollipop. Basically, he's been told (by other boards) that after the Champions Trophy, we (Pakistan) should play a bilateral series against India. Whether it's in Australia or England, they'll (other boards) convince India to play,”

“If he says the Champions Trophy will be in Pakistan, they’ll agree. If he says it’ll be a hybrid model, they’ll go with that too. It’s because when their players play in the IPL, BCCI pays their boards a huge amount whether it’s the English board, New Zealand board, West Indies board, or Australian board,"

"I think that if the bilateral series isn't happening in India or Pakistan, the Pakistan board should say no to playing in a third country. If India is not willing to play in our country, then we shouldn't agree to play the series in another country either,"​

He is the most nonsensical guy I have ever seen talking about cricket. Only ARY can support this guy. He lived all his mediocre life on one good innings in an ODI played against WI in the UAE.

He doesn't even have any good analysis on cricket and its affairs, and the fact that he is talking about administration and management is beyond me.