Arsenal FC | 2023/24 Season

[Technics 1210]

That's right Arteta was contemplating his future at Arsenal after he bottled the league last season and here we have some fans thinking he's here for the long run - 20 years. Might not even get past 5 years, especially if Arsenal fail to win the league this season.

 

[MenInG]

Think the lala-land crowd needs to let go about Arteta.

He will remain our manager for this season and quite easily the next one too.

Now concentrate on the games please.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Record at Anfield pretty shameful reading

You are wrong as usual. You think this Arsenal team needs a better manager to help them win the league but Arteta will take care of that himself.

Arteta will help Arsenal win 2 league titles in the next 4 years and make an impact in the CL as well. It is difficult to predict the CL because a lot of great teams don’t win it while some less than great teams do, but there is no doubt that Arsenal will make their mark in the competition by getting into the last 4 and knocking out some big teams.

I don’t think you will have the courage to admit that you were wrong about Arteta and you won’t apologize. I hope I am wrong though.

Wow so uve copied and pasted the same post uve made about 500 times in this thread

Arteta will win the league

Arteta will be greatest manager eve

Arteta will end world hunger

Arteta will create world peace

Arteta is best looking guy world.

no one cares about your boring fantasies.

go worship your Arteta statue in your garden

 

[Amjid Javed]

That's right Arteta was contemplating his future at Arsenal after he bottled the league last season and here we have some fans thinking he's here for the long run - 20 years. Might not even get past 5 years, especially if Arsenal fail to win the league this season.

Kronkes have no ambition, they just want CL money. Even a 4th trophyless season in a row they won't sack the fraud manager.

As long as the losers and cheerleaders turn up to Emirates and stadiums full the kronkes are happy

They are no different to FSG - zero ambition

 

[Amjid Javed]

Lala crowd? You mean fans with standards.

Only lala crowds are ones happy with zero trophies and progres

 

[Firebat]

Arteta challenges Arsenal to end 11-year hoodoo at Anfield

Mikel Arteta has challenged his Arsenal side to end a hoodoo and win at Anfield for the first time in 11 years.

The Gunners head to face Liverpool on Saturday knowing victory would leave them top of the Premier League table on Christmas Day. But the visitors would have to end a run of winless results stretching back to September 2012 if they are to achieve that - winning 2-0 when Arteta was in the Arsenal midfield.

The Spaniard toasted four years as Arsenal manager earlier in the week and during that time he has overseen wins at Manchester United, Chelsea and Tottenham, while this season they beat Manchester City at the Emirates Stadium.

Next up for Arteta is to leave Anfield with three points: "We have done it at Old Trafford, we have done it at Stamford Bridge and many other places where we haven't done it for years," he said.

"This is the next challenge. Go there and win. If you want to be at the top you have to go to those places and be dominant. That's what we're going to try to do."

Arteta on silencing crowd: We have to be better than them

Arsenal led 2-0 at Anfield last year before they were pinned back and had to settle for a draw.

Ahead of that trip, Arteta had called Anfield a "jungle", while in the Amazon 'All or Nothing' documentary he was shown piping in 'You'll Never Walk Alone' while his players trained - although that led to a 4-0 thrashing to Jurgen Klopp's side.

"It's going to be a great atmosphere," added Arteta. "The two teams are in a really good moment, really good position, really strong position. They are going to be well placed to win it and to go for it. It's going to be an intense match.

"You have to play better than them. You will silence the crowd if you are dominant and better than them.

"There are certain things that we didn't manage very well (last season), the way we allowed them to run especially, that we need to correct and be much better at because when they have that momentum and space they are a really dangerous team, but we had some the big, big situations in after those moments when we could have killed the game and we didn't - when you have the opportunity to do that, you have to do it.

"They have experienced that for many years now. For this group of players now this is the third, fourth time that they have been there [Anfield].

"A few years ago, it was the first time for most of them and maybe you have to clarify and explain certain things. I don't think that is necessary now."

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Not only a great striker but at great value.

Here's a crazy, yet probable thought, Thomas Frank could be the next Arsenal manager if Arteta gets the sack!

Annoyingly we had him and ended up selling him to Peterborough for less than a million

 

[Technics 1210]

Well well, a rare moment where VAR has helped Arsenal.

0-1

 

[Rajdeep]

If Arsenal beats Liverpool in Anfield, it will be difficult to contain brother @Mamoon today

 

[hassan918]

Kai Havertz is in the book now.

Endo turns on a throw from Trent Alexander-Arnold and looks to break free. He and Havertz are jostling and referee Chris Kavanagh decides it is a foul and booking.

Havertz will miss Arsenal's game against West Ham on 28 December now.

 

[Mamoon]

A really good point for Arsenal. For the second straight season, Klopp has failed to beat the “tactically clueless”, “Pep cone boy”, “cannot manage big games” Arteta @KingKhanWC @Amjid Javed

This draw hurts Liverpool way more - 2 points from Arsenal and United at home is very damaging to their title chances.

Today’s match was against illustrated why Edu and Arteta need to upgrade on Martinelli. He has the same issues as Theo Walcott - bags of pace, decent finishing but nothing between his ears.

He was completely nullified by Trent, Szobo and Konate.

Arsenal fans will have their guns out for Zinchenko and will conveniently not talk about Martinelli who has consistently been the weak link this season.

Everyone including Arteta knows that he defensively weak and you wouldn’t back him in a 1v1 situation against any world class winger just like you wouldn’t back Trent, but he is very important for Arsenal in possession and for building from the back.

This is why Arteta preferred him to Tierney and rightly so and he will remain in the team until Timber is fit who is also excellent on the ball but defensively better because he is stronger and quicker.

Arsenal are in pole position to win the league and they will get over the line this time because they are defensively solid and have learned from last season’s experience.

 

[MK7Z]

Hope the Liverpool fans giving it big un about today's game weeks ago will now pipe down

Your own great manager klopp said wow wow wow and was in awe.

I Prefer the opinion of opposition managers who compliment us week in week out over some folks on this thread anyway but thought I'd just remind the bridesmaid crew who think they have been relevant. When in fact they are more in the conversation with Blackburn and Leicester.

Oh but we got 90 something points. Seen as this is a primarily a cricket forum. Imagine losing and saying but we were 2 runs short pleas tell us we are worh something.

 

[Rana]

Liverpool drop 4 crucial points at home against United and Arsenal. This will come back to haunt them I recon.

 

[Amjid Javed]

A well earned point despite playing with 10 men, as expected a certain posters here defending Zinchenko when he was at fault for the goal and also nearly cost a 2nd as well.

I suggest that poster - celebrating a point like Arsenal won league.

Zinchenko has now be at fault for the last 3 goals concededing at Anfield

 

[MK7Z]

Zinchenko was well Zinchenko. A liability.
Its a credit to this team that we are top despite him.

Get through Jan with him and once Tomi and timber back then good riddance.

There is a reason we bought timber...

 

[Firebat]

To be honest that was a pretty awful game from both sides quality-wise. Scrappy, open, end-to-end, sloppy mistakes in possession, people slipping all over the place, poor final 3rd play, last-ditch defending. Just felt like 2 boxers slugging it out in the 12th round, which was not what I was hoping for from us but that's what Anfield always descends into when we go there. Gotta take the point in the end I guess.

Rice, Saliba, Odegaard, Gabriel, Raya were outstanding. Saliba really has to be the best defender in this league right now. Amid all the chaos and adrenaline and noise, the guy has so much ice in his veins it looks like he's in a warm up training session. That pure composure for a 22 year old is ridiculous.

Every game Zinchenko plays the more Timber and Tomiyasu are licking their lips from the sidelines. Saka and especially Martinelli were just not up to the standards expected. So many brilliant final 3rd situations that they squandered had me shouting at the TV.

All in all this game just shows that this season is an 85-point champions season.

 

[MK7Z]

Seems like Liverpool will need a LB after Tsimikas was dealt with by Saka.

Take Zinchenko if ya like

 

[Theo_14]

Good point for Arsenal, will take that.

The game could have gone either way. Martinelli missed a sitter and Jesus/Saka put the ball into the box but Martinelli and Kai switched off. TAA missed a sitter for Liverpool.

Gabriel/Saliba and Rice were the stand out performances. Martinelli and Zinchenko were extremely poor. Saka also needs to fix the dilemma of how he can be effective now with teams doubling and tripling up on him.

Top of the league, finally competing against big clubs at their stadium and comfortably through the knockouts of Champions League. Arteta has done a great job in taking Arsenal to this level.

We are so close to being absolutely top; we need a world class goal scoring striker, explosive winger with end product.

 

[topspin]

I’m delighted with the point because Arsenal got lucky.

That was a clear handball by Odegaard. Even Saliba admitted it was a penalty which I found astonishing but I respect him for it. There should be nowhere to hide for these incompetent PL refs.

Also, we were very lucky when Trent hit the bar. It was 4 v 1. How we survived that was a near miracle.

As I predicted with Zinchenko before the game, he got destroyed by Salah. He’s a massive liability who needs to be sold in the summer. It comes to no surprise to find that the one defending him has been exposed for his appetite for mediocrity.

Liverpool losing 4 points at home against Man U and Arsenal could cost them the league.

 

[topspin]

A well earned point despite playing with 10 men, as expected a certain posters on here defending Zinchenko when he was at fault for the goal and also nearly cost a 2nd as well.

I suggest that poster - celebrating a point like Arsenal won league.

Zinchenko has now be at fault for the last 3 goals concededing at Anfield

I picked up on this as well.

Making it sound as if Zinchenko is our TAA (not for the first time).

Anyone with respectable standards would want him gone.

We have Tomiyasu and Kiwior who can play LB and defend better than him.

I went to the Liverpool game at the Emirates last season. Tomiyasu literally had Salah in his pocket. He played an instrumental role in what was a close game that ended 3-2 to Arsenal.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

If Zinchenko wasn't City alumni her be in the Championship. He's worse than Cedric.

Basically gave Salah a free shot on goal

 

[Amjid Javed]

Some interesting points made by a few different posters here which need to be looked at.

- some posters saying liverpools 2 home draws may cost them later in season? Makes no sense really. Arsenal dropped point at home to spurs and Fulham, Man city have dropped more points at home this season they did in entire of last season at home. I think most top sides are likely to drop a few more points then normal at home. So not show why liverpools draws are terminal



- what is more likely to hurt Liverpool is no Salah for January and start of Feb, including the game at the Emirates, whilst Liverpool do have other strikers, they way the other strikers are misfiring salahs absence I think could cost Liverpool crucial points in a close season. Also for Arsenal, Tomiyasu injured and then at Asia cup in January, it means they will be playing with 10 men every game with crychenko having to keep playing at LB

The chasing pack of CIty, villa or even spurs could close gap over top 2 over January and February.

- 85 points to win the league? A really good point made by @Firebat i watched game with a few friends who are Liverpool and man city fans yesterday and we were all agreeing that with spurs, Newcastle, villa all improving, even at times teams like Brighton been capable of being top sides that the overall number of points to win league will be less than 90. If you look at the number of points already dropping in big games etc. I think as well that a mid to high 80s will win the league.

- transfer windows, all the top sides need to invest and fill weak holes in squad, I think who ever makes best signings in regards to players coming in and making instant impact will go a long way to winning league.

I was gutted yesterday we didn't win at Anfield, just like last season. We played so well, this time handled the atmosphere better than last season. But a season which will be defined on fine margins we can't keep shooting ourselves in the foot. Zinchenko needs to go this guy will cost Arsenal big time, his so called "extra man in midfield" isn't worth the number of goals we give away which he plays a part in. Also Raya shouldn't be getting beat on his near post like that.

I said before game I'd take a point and we did, with London derby's now vs West ham, Fulham and Palace, we need to take 9 points from these 3 games

 

[Mamoon]

A well earned point despite playing with 10 men, as expected a certain posters here defending Zinchenko when he was at fault for the goal and also nearly cost a 2nd as well.

I suggest that poster - celebrating a point like Arsenal won league.

Zinchenko has now be at fault for the last 3 goals concededing at Anfield

No one is doing that, but the point is (excuse the unintended pun) is getting a point at Anfield - when you are in a title race with Liverpool - is a favorable result.

Liverpool needed to beat Arsenal last night more than Arsenal needed to beat Liverpool and it would have been the other way around if it was at the Emirates.

The fact that Arsenal fans are a little disappointed after drawing at Anfield because they could have won the game shows how much Arteta has changed the standards and expectations.

Two years ago, a trip to Anfield was written off by every Arsenal fan as a drubbing and today, they genuinely think that they can win there.

Klopp has failed to beat a “clueless fraud” like Arteta at Anfield for the second season running which says a lot about the people who don’t rate Arteta as a manager.

Besides, you can’t criticize Arteta for getting a point at Anfield when you think he is a terrible manager who can’t manage big games. You can’t have it both ways.

If you think he is as bad as you think, then Arsenal should have been smashed last night and so last night was a reality-check for people like you but then again, if you could care for reality-checks you would have realized by now that Arteta is a brilliant manager.

 

[Mamoon]

- some posters saying liverpools 2 home draws may cost them later in season? Makes no sense really. Arsenal dropped point at home to spurs and Fulham, Man city have dropped more points at home this season they did in entire of last season at home. I think most top sides are likely to drop a few more points then normal at home. So not show why liverpools draws are terminal

I know you are desperate to see Liverpool beat Arsenal in the title race but in such title races, H2H games prove pivotal.

Last season, Arsenal would have won the league had they beaten City at the Emirates and not lost at Etihad. Ultimately, dropping 6 points to City proved very costly.

If Arsenal beat Liverpool by 3-4 points to win the league, results such as night will be the difference maker especially if Liverpool fail to get a point at the Emirates which they probably will.

Arsenal is a better than team Liverpool and have been for 2 seasons and they will beat them everywhere except Anfield where they have come very close twice now.

 

[Mamoon]

I’m delighted with the point because Arsenal got lucky.

That was a clear handball by Odegaard. Even Saliba admitted it was a penalty which I found astonishing but I respect him for it. There should be nowhere to hide for these incompetent PL refs.

Also, we were very lucky when Trent hit the bar. It was 4 v 1. How we survived that was a near miracle.

As I predicted with Zinchenko before the game, he got destroyed by Salah. He’s a massive liability who needs to be sold in the summer. It comes to no surprise to find that the one defending him has been exposed for his appetite for mediocrity.

Liverpool losing 4 points at home against Man U and Arsenal could cost them the league.

I picked up on this as well.

Making it sound as if Zinchenko is our TAA (not for the first time).

Anyone with respectable standards would want him gone.

We have Tomiyasu and Kiwior who can play LB and defend better than him.

I went to the Liverpool game at the Emirates last season. Tomiyasu literally had Salah in his pocket. He played an instrumental role in what was a close game that ended 3-2 to Arsenal.

You can always see that Zinchenko is a liability and you can always pick on him but yet you can’t muster the courage to talk about how poor Martinelli has been this season and how ineffective he was yesterday.

It seems like the emotional investment is too high for Arsenal fans to criticize on of their own even though it is clear as daylight that there is nothing between his ears and his lack of intelligence, composure and awareness is holding the team back.

As far Zinchenko is concerned, he is nowhere near as good as Trent but he is in the team for similar reasons.

Trent is a circumspect defender but he is their first-choice RB because he is crucial to their attack.

Similarly, Zinchenko is important to the way Arsenal build from the back and keep the ball. However, Arteta knows he can be improved on which is why he brought Timber who is defensively better and also excellent on the ball.

Now it is high time Arteta also realizes that Martinelli is a player that needs to be upgraded as well and Arsenal should be exploring other options at LW now.

I find it hilarious that the same posters who blindly defend him and think there is nothing wrong with him also criticize others for supporting mediocrity when even they know that 9/10 times, Martinelli will choose the wrong option in a 50-50 situation.

Even yesterday, there were multiple instances where Arsenal could have made something happen but he held onto the ball too long and started dribbling in circles.

He is a head down merchant. You will rarely see him left his head and scan the pitch and the surroundings the way Saka and Odegaard do and this is why he is never on the same wavelength.

And of course, who can forget that pass in the dying moments at Anfield last season when Arsenal were breaking and all he had to do was release Saka and Arsenal would have won 3-2.

That was the moment where I finally realized (after being in denial for long and convincing myself that he was great) that Arsenal have got a Brazilian Theo Walcott on their hands.

Bags of pace, decent finishing especially when he doesn’t have time to think but very poor game awareness which will always stop him from becoming a world class winger.

As far as the Odegaard handball is concerned, it wasn’t a handball. Saliba can say what he wants, but players are generally not aware of the intricacies of the rules and it seems like you aren’t either.

The referee decided against the penalty because of the following law:

 

[Mamoon]

Also, we were very lucky when Trent hit the bar. It was 4 v 1. How we survived that was a near miracle.

Since when did bad execution and bad decision making mean good luck?

If that is the case then every time Martinelli does dumb things on the ball it is the good luck of the opposition but that isn’t the case.

It was bad decision-making by Salah because he had the option to square to multiple players who were in a better position and it was bad execution by Trent. Nothing to do with luck.

 

[Mamoon]

If Zinchenko wasn't City alumni her be in the Championship. He's worse than Cedric.

Basically gave Salah a free shot on goal

Zinchenko was the major reason why City won the league in 21/22 on the final day.

City were struggling to create chances against Villa and he came off the bench and changed the game.

That game was one of the main reasons why Arteta signed him and he was one of the driving forces behind the title challenge last season because his passing range, vision and technique added a new dimension to Arsenal’s attack and made them difficult to defend against.

Teams couldn’t cope with Arsenal’s attacking patterns with Zinchenko inverting in midfield. It is still an effective ploy but a more defensively aware player in his position would add more solidity to Arsenal which is why Arteta bought Timber who is defensively better but with a similar attacking profile.

 

[Amjid Javed]

No one is doing that, but the point is (excuse the unintended pun) is getting a point at Anfield - when you are in a title race with Liverpool - is a favorable result.

Liverpool needed to beat Arsenal last night more than Arsenal needed to beat Liverpool and it would have been the other way around if it was at the Emirates.

The fact that Arsenal fans are a little disappointed after drawing at Anfield because they could have won the game shows how much Arteta has changed the standards and expectations.

Two years ago, a trip to Anfield was written off by every Arsenal fan as a drubbing and today, they genuinely think that they can win there.

Klopp has failed to beat a “clueless fraud” like Arteta at Anfield for the second season running which says a lot about the people who don’t rate Arteta as a manager.

Besides, you can’t criticize Arteta for getting a point at Anfield when you think he is a terrible manager who can’t manage big games. You can’t have it both ways.

If you think he is as bad as you think, then Arsenal should have been smashed last night and so last night was a reality-check for people like you but then again, if you could care for reality-checks you would have realized by now that Arteta is a brilliant manager.

- Liverpool didn't have to beat Arsenal, its 18th game of the season, not a end of season title decider

- I haven't mentioned Arteta even once since the end of Liverpool game, so stop talking out of backside and making things up. (My 1st Arteta comments are below )

- Arsenal drew the game, they didn't win. Man united drew their last week. Yet your using at as a validation tool that "Arteta" is a great manager based on 2 draws. Like I said your standards are that low its comical. Ten haag is a rubbish manager and got a point at Anfield. So your whole getting a draw at Anfield is sign of a great manager is comedy gold.

Great manager is when GG came to Anfield and had to win 2-0 to win title and did it.


So according to you "drawing" games at Anfield is now the yardstick for great managers

I judge managers on trophies they win.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Yesterday's game just highlighted Arsenal's strengths and short comings

Rice outstanding
Saliba outstanding
Arsenal not clinical enough (Jesus and Martinelli culprits again at anfield)
Zinchenko liability
Goal keeper not good enough
Arsenal lacking killer instinct / ruthlessness

No different to last seasons game in reality

 

[IMMY69]

Zinchenko was a train wreck waiting to happen.
Zinchenko vs Salah was a complete mismatch, amateurish defending...

Liverpool were just playing long balls in the direction of Salah knowing he would get there ahead of Zinchenko.

first 10-15 minutes of the game we were on fire, best we've looked this season... now let's get Tomiyasu and Timber fit and go all out and buy Toney in January....then we can start to dream

 

[Amjid Javed]

Zinchenko was a train wreck waiting to happen.
Zinchenko vs Salah was a complete mismatch, amateurish defending...

Liverpool were just playing long balls in the direction of Salah knowing he would get there ahead of Zinchenko.

first 10-15 minutes of the game we were on fire, best we've looked this season... now let's get Tomiyasu and Timber fit and go all out and buy Toney in January....then we can start to dream

Tomiyasu will be out for while, then missing in jan / Feb at Asia cup. Timber won't be back any time soon.

So sadly the team will have to carry its two liabilities Zinchenko and the keeper for early part of next year.

Toney And another midfielder are a must

 

[MK7Z]

What did the keeper do wrong yesterday?

 

[Theo_14]

What did the keeper do wrong yesterday?

I think some posters had silly expectations for Raya to save the shot from Salah.

Salah is arguably the best RW in the history of PL, when he is in that situation 1v1, he will score 9 out of 10 times.

 

[IMMY69]

Raya had a good game.
Less of the sweeper keeper role and handled all the crosses and corners beautifully...

His distribution at times was lacking but overall he had a good game.
Hopefully this will give him some confidence...

 

[Amjid Javed]

What did the keeper do wrong yesterday?

Shouldn't be getting beaten at your near post like he did yesterday

 

[Amjid Javed]

I think some posters had silly expectations for Raya to save the shot from Salah.

Salah is arguably the best RW in the history of PL, when he is in that situation 1v1, he will score 9 out of 10 times.

Silly expectations it's the keepers job to save shots

 

[MK7Z]

I think some posters had silly expectations for Raya to save the shot from Salah.

Salah is arguably the best RW in the history of PL, when he is in that situation 1v1, he will score 9 out of 10 times.

It rifled in.

Seems you have to score every shot if your an Arsenal attacker and save every shot if your an Arsenal keeper.

I look forward to the 9-0 every game we should be getting if we are upto standard and it's any manager but Arteta.

 

[shaz619]

Why does his excellency keep playing Zinchenko? Is he the second coming of Ashley Cole.

Anyway, it’s not a win but Arsenal showed great spirit and intent during a pre-holiday fixture, I was expecting them to roll over against a dangerous LFC side at Anfield, but they were motivated and showed me they’re in this. Yes, still a long way to go, but I wouldn’t ring the alarm bell just yet.

 

[Amjid Javed]

It rifled in.

Seems you have to score every shot if your an Arsenal attacker and save every shot if your an Arsenal keeper.

I look forward to the 9-0 every game we should be getting if we are upto standard and it's any manager but Arteta.

If your not expecting your keeper to do his job that's a poor mindset.

In regards to strikers we aren't clinical enough. 2 years running Arsenal have failed to kill Liverpool off

 

[Amjid Javed]

Why does his excellency keep playing Zinchenko? Is he the second coming of Ashley Cole.

Anyway, it’s not a win but Arsenal showed great spirit and intent during a pre-holiday fixture, I was expecting them to roll over against a dangerous LFC side at Anfield, but they were motivated and showed me they’re in this. Yes, still a long way to go, but I wouldn’t ring the alarm bell just yet.

He's the teams main cheerleader and leads the huddles. So that's why he's in the team

 

[IMMY69]

Xhaka was the main cheerleader last season and gave the talks during the team hurdles, but where is he now?

 

[MK7Z]

If your not expecting your keeper to do his job that's a poor mindset.

In regards to strikers we aren't clinical enough. 2 years running Arsenal have failed to kill Liverpool off

We expect people to perform in a particular way, and then get upset when they don’t. We then blame that unhappy feeling on them, when the actual cause was our own expectation.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Xhaka was the main cheerleader last season and gave the talks during the team hurdles, but where is he now?

He's top of league at Leverkusen, not sure what your point is here?

 

[MK7Z]

Before someone says conspiracy theory etc.

Genuine question.. What did people make of the condition of the pitch? Seemed at times we were playing a Stevie Gerrard testimonial with the amount of players from BOTH sides slipping and sliding all over the place.

 

[Amjid Javed]

For years man city and Liverpool have been miles better then Arsenal, and regularly have gone to the Emirates and won.

Quite a few of our fan base think that both last season and this season Arsenal are better then Liverpool, yet with that belief we haven't won either game at Anfield. This is where the ruthless edge needs to come in.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Before someone says conspiracy theory etc.

Genuine question.. What did people make of the condition of the pitch? Seemed at times we were playing a Stevie Gerrard testimonial with the amount of players from BOTH sides slipping and sliding all over the place.

I didn't really think to much about it as its rained a lot up here in North all weekend. The referee did to be fair take into account the condition when tackles were flying in.

 

[MK7Z]

Before someone says conspiracy theory etc.

Genuine question.. What did people make of the condition of the pitch? Seemed at times we were playing a Stevie Gerrard testimonial with the amount of players from BOTH sides slipping and sliding all over the place.

Maybe the guy who watched from the hospitality box and was inviting everyone will have a view on this

 

[MK7Z]

I didn't really think to much about it as its rained a lot up here in North all weekend. The referee did to be fair take into account the condition when tackles were flying in.

On the on field ref. I rag refs a lot but he did OK tbh.

Havertz yellow was maybe a mistake but apart from that he was alrite

 

[Amjid Javed]

On the on field ref. I rag refs a lot but he did OK tbh.

Havertz yellow was maybe a mistake but apart from that he was alrite

There were a lot of cynical fouls in 2nd half and no complaints on all of yellows dished out

 

[Amjid Javed]

Havertz is now banner for West ham, also think Martinelli and Zinchenko need to be dropped.

 

[MK7Z]

I'd expect some rotation anyway this time of the year with couple of games being very close

 

[Amjid Javed]

I'd expect some rotation anyway this time of the year with couple of games being very close

West ham are either good or really bad, they are 6th. Bowen is on fire in away games. I don't think it will be an Easy game.

ESR and trossard should come in at somepoint

 

[Mamoon]

- Liverpool didn't have to beat Arsenal, its 18th game of the season, not a end of season title decider

Read my post again. Arsenal and Liverpool are in a title race and if Arsenal beat Liverpool by a small margin to win the league - which is a genuine possibility - Liverpool failing to beat Arsenal at Anfield will be one of the defining factors.

In title races, H2H results make a massive difference and Arsenal hold the edge now unless Liverpool can also nick a point at the Emirates.

- I haven't mentioned Arteta even once since the end of Liverpool game, so stop talking out of backside and making things up. (My 1st Arteta comments are below )

Yes you haven’t because even you feel embarrassed to criticize the “clueless fraud” and the guy “who cannot manage big games” after going toe to toe with Liverpool at Anfield for the second season running.

You talk about expectations and standards but that is what Arteta has achieved - he has made draws at Anfield look a bit disappointing whereas two years earlier, anything other than a drubbing at Anfield would have been a positive result for Arsenal.

- Arsenal drew the game, they didn't win. Man united drew their last week. Yet your using at as a validation tool that "Arteta" is a great manager based on 2 draws. Like I said your standards are that low it’s comical. Ten haag is a rubbish manager and got a point at Anfield. So your whole getting a draw at Anfield is sign of a great manager is comedy gold.

Again - you cannot have it both ways.

You cannot criticize Arteta for being a terrible manager and someone who is clueless and then moan that Arsenal only drew at Anfield.

How can you expect great things from someone that you consider rubbish? It seems that deep down, you are aware that Arteta has proved you wrong and you go overboard with your criticism.

Obviously, you don’t have the courage to admit it and when he wins Arsenal the league, you won’t admit that you were wrong about him and you will not apologize.

In fact, you will put a different spin on it and claim that he did what he was supposed to do and these are the “standards” that you expect from Arsenal.

You won’t stop talking about “standards” which is funny because Arteta has done exactly that - he has raised and revived the standards and expectations.

The standards and expectations were compromised under Wenger after 2005 and they didn’t get any better under Emery.

It was Arteta who raised the standards again by taking a team that was struggling to stay in the top half of the table and converted them into title challengers.

It is Arteta who has made Arsenal believe that they can go to Anfield and win.

It is Arteta who has made Arsenal believe that anything less than winning the title would be a disappointment.

Learn to respect the work that he has done and the way he has revamped the club on and off the pitch. Yes he has spent a lot of money but teams are not rebuild for free.

He has spent less money than Pep has post 2019 and Pep already had a a title winning squad. He has spent less money than Chelsea and and United and Arsenal are much better than both now.

Arteta clearly knows what he is doing and what it takes to build a high performance culture.

He converted Arsenal into title challengers and there is no doubt that he will win Arsenal the league as well.

As far as United getting a point at Anfield is concerned, how can you compare the two games? United went there looking for a draw. Arsenal went there looking for a win.

Ask Klopp and Liverpool players what they think of Arsenal and what they think of United having played both.

A quick look at the stats of the two games will tell you there is no comparison whatsoever. United played for a draw against a flat Anfield crowd while Arsenal took the game to Liverpool in a hostile environment.

Great manager is when GG came to Anfield and had to win 2-0 to win title and did it.


So according to you "drawing" games at Anfield is now the yardstick for great managers

I judge managers on trophies they win.

Drawing game is not the yardstick for terrible managers either. You think Arteta is awful and cannot manage big games but yet Klopp’s Liverpool can’t beat him at Anfield.

As I said, you can’t have it both ways. You seem to have very high expectations from a manager you don’t rate at all, which again brings me to the point that deep down you know that Arteta has proved you wrong.

You judge managers on trophies and you should, but you have to understand that rebuilding Arsenal and making them PL champions is not a one or two season job.

You have to be patient and Arteta has deserved the patience of the Arsenal fans because he has improved the team massively and the club is heading in the right direction.

8th, 5th, 2nd and 1st so far this season in his first four full seasons.

This is progress.

Yes eventually he will have to win the league and he will. If he took Arsenal from 8th to 2nd, he will also take Arsenal from 2nd to 1st.

It is too early for you to write him off as someone who can’t get Arsenal over the line considering that this is only the second season where he has had a team capable of winning the league.

If Arteta doesn’t win the league within 2-3 years I will question his ability to get Arsenal over the line.

If Arteta wins the league within this period, which I’m 100% sure he will, will you have the courage to admit that you were wrong about him and will you apologize?

I’m 100% sure you won’t.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Read my post again. Arsenal and Liverpool are in a title race and if Arsenal beat Liverpool by a small margin to win the league - which is a genuine possibility - Liverpool failing to beat Arsenal at Anfield will be one of the defining factors.

In title races, H2H results make a massive difference and Arsenal hold the edge now unless Liverpool can also nick a point at the Emirates.

Yes you haven’t because even you feel embarrassed to criticize the “clueless fraud” and the guy “who cannot manage big games” after going toe to toe with Liverpool at Anfield for the second season running.

You talk about expectations and standards but that is what Arteta has achieved - he has made draws at Anfield look a bit disappointing whereas two years earlier, anything other than a drubbing at Anfield would have been a positive result for Arsenal.

Again - you cannot have it both ways.

You cannot criticize Arteta for being a terrible manager and someone who is clueless and then moan that Arsenal only drew at Anfield.

How can you expect great things from someone that you consider rubbish? It seems that deep down, you are aware that Arteta has proved you wrong and you go overboard with your criticism.

Obviously, you don’t have the courage to admit it and when he wins Arsenal the league, you won’t admit that you were wrong about him and you will not apologize.

In fact, you will put a different spin on it and claim that he did what he was supposed to do and these are the “standards” that you expect from Arsenal.

You won’t stop talking about “standards” which is funny because Arteta has done exactly that - he has raised and revived the standards and expectations.

The standards and expectations were compromised under Wenger after 2005 and they didn’t get any better under Emery.

It was Arteta who raised the standards again by taking a team that was struggling to stay in the top half of the table and converted them into title challengers.

It is Arteta who has made Arsenal believe that they can go to Anfield and win.

It is Arteta who has made Arsenal believe that anything less than winning the title would be a disappointment.

Learn to respect the work that he has done and the way he has revamped the club on and off the pitch. Yes he has spent a lot of money but teams are not rebuild for free.

He has spent less money than Pep has post 2019 and Pep already had a a title winning squad. He has spent less money than Chelsea and and United and Arsenal are much better than both now.

Arteta clearly knows what he is doing and what it takes to build a high performance culture.

He converted Arsenal into title challengers and there is no doubt that he will win Arsenal the league as well.

As far as United getting a point at Anfield is concerned, how can you compare the two games? United went there looking for a draw. Arsenal went there looking for a win.

Ask Klopp and Liverpool players what they think of Arsenal and what they think of United having played both.

A quick look at the stats of the two games will tell you there is no comparison whatsoever. United played for a draw against a flat Anfield crowd while Arsenal took the game to Liverpool in a hostile environment.

Drawing game is not the yardstick for terrible managers either. You think Arteta is awful and cannot manage big games but yet Klopp’s Liverpool can’t beat him at Anfield.

As I said, you can’t have it both ways. You seem to have very high expectations from a manager you don’t rate at all, which again brings me to the point that deep down you know that Arteta has proved you wrong.

You judge managers on trophies and you should, but you have to understand that rebuilding Arsenal and making them PL champions is not a one or two season job.

You have to be patient and Arteta has deserved the patience of the Arsenal fans because he has improved the team massively and the club is heading in the right direction.

8th, 5th, 2nd and 1st so far this season in his first four full seasons.

This is progress.

Yes eventually he will have to win the league and he will. If he took Arsenal from 8th to 2nd, he will also take Arsenal from 2nd to 1st.

It is too early for you to write him off as someone who can’t get Arsenal over the line considering that this is only the second season where he has had a team capable of winning the league.

If Arteta doesn’t win the league within 2-3 years I will question his ability to get Arsenal over the line.

If Arteta wins the league within this period, which I’m 100% sure he will, will you have the courage to admit that you were wrong about him and will you apologize?

I’m 100% sure you won’t.

uve just repeated same things as before, so I'm not wasting my time going over same thing.

If I judge managers on trophies they win. Yet if Arteta wins one your demanding I apologies because what he's finally got up to standard?

Are you going to apologise for you "in the bag comment?" And that you ran off like a coward because you couldn't face up to being wrong.

Don't make silly demands on others when you didn't have guts to face up to your silly predictions last season.

If someone does well il give them credit, if they are a failure il call it.

So if Arteta ends season trophyless a 4th season in a row, are you going to apologise to everyone or go AWOL again.

Everyone can play this silly game.

 

[Mamoon]

If I judge managers on trophies they win. Yet if Arteta wins one your demanding I apologies because what he's finally got up to standard?

You don’t expect Arteta to win the league either this season or at some point in the future because you don’t think he is good enough to get Arsenal over the line.

You have made it abundantly clear over the years. You don’t think he is capable. Therefore, when Arteta wins the league with Arsenal, he will have proved you wrong and therefore, if you are genuine and are not driving an agenda, you will apologize and admit that you were wrong about him and you were wrong to argue with me all these years.

However, as I expected, you wouldn’t have the courage to make this admission and you have made it clear already.

“Arteta is not good enough. Arsenal will never win the league with him”

When Arteta wins the league with Arsenal…..

“He is finally up to standard. There is no need to praise him or go overboard with the adulation. He is just doing what he is supposed to do”

This is what a toxic agenda looks like. Aggressive criticism and hatred and no appreciation and acceptance after being proved wrong.

 

[topspin]

You can always see that Zinchenko is a liability and you can always pick on him but yet you can’t muster the courage to talk about how poor Martinelli has been this season and how ineffective he was yesterday.

When you've tried to brush Zinchenko's failings under the carpet in your first post after the game.

I didn't address Martinelli because I was making a short summary so I wasn't going to micro analyse every player. The funny thing is you had a lot more to say about him than Zinchenko even though the Ukrainian was by far the worst player in the game, which is exactly what an agenda looks like. But this is nothing new from you. You've always been doing this on PP. You did this to Younis Khan when he was our best batsman, at the time. You have a lot of bad things to say about our better players because you have no respectable standards. This is evident by how you go about raving about players like Imam and Zinchenko. You deserve this reality check because you were going all bhangra after tagging me when it was announced that Zinchenko was awarded MOTM against relegation prospect, Burnley. Please have some shame.

Coming to Martinelli, he didn't play well. It's perhaps time to give him some rest and let Trossard start the next few games. Let's see how he does but what I will say is his track record of starting games pales in comparison to his impact when he comes off the bench. The Brazilian has a much better record when starting games. It's far too early to write him off. He's 22 and had a brilliant season during the last campaign. I would be more worried about Mitoma because he's faded away this season, yet you think he's better than Martinelli despite the fact that he's 4 years older and therefore well ahead when it comes to his development.

As far as the Odegaard handball is concerned, it wasn’t a handball. Saliba can say what he wants, but players are generally not aware of the intricacies of the rules and it seems like you aren’t either.

The referee decided against the penalty because of the following law:

View attachment 140613

It was a penalty. Basically a basketball move from Odegaard.

 

[topspin]

Since when did bad execution and bad decision making mean good luck?

If that is the case then every time Martinelli does dumb things on the ball it is the good luck of the opposition but that isn’t the case.

It was bad decision-making by Salah because he had the option to square to multiple players who were in a better position and it was bad execution by Trent. Nothing to do with luck.

It was very fortunate for Arsenal because you would expect a team of Liverpool's quality to score those 19 times out of 20.

If Arsenal missed a chance like that I would be tearing my hair out.

 

[topspin]

You and other should have given Havertz a fair chance to prove himself at Arsenal and not write him off from day one. The end result is that Havertz is proving you lot wrong big time and has been excellent over the last month or so and will continue to grow at Arsenal.

Havertz has been in the PL for 3 seasons. If he was a new to the PL or a youngster playing first team football for the first time, I would've given him time. He has a long way to go before he can justify his £70m price tag and his wage of £300k+ per week.

Arsenal fans like yourself should have given Havertz at least 1 full season to prove himself. You wrote him off since day 1 and now that he has proved you wrong, you expect people to not rub it in? That is not trolling. That is giving a reality-check.

You say all this but you don't have a shred of credibility. The truth of the matter is you didn't really believe in him which is quite easy to prove.

Firstly, if we look back at post #277. You said, "If he doesn’t he doesn’t. Not the end of the world. He won’t be the first or the last player to fail. He will be sold and life will move on". This is just another way of saying "if he fails it doesn't matter". If you had any confidence in is abilities you would never have said this .

Secondly, I've offered you a bet on Havertz. I said if he proves me wrong and does well this season, I'll happily stop posting on this thread for the 24/25 season but if the reverse is true you would do the same. After his late winner against Brentford, you were getting carried away and you couldn't resist having a dig at me, so I offered the same bet, but on this occasion, I was happy to discount his performances prior to this game to give you a head start, you still didn't take up my offer. Why? Because you didn't believe in him.

No respectable Arsenal fan hypes up Havertz and Zinchenko whilst goes about disrespecting Martinelli. Even AFTV idiots don't stoop this low.

Arteta has proved his haters wrong because he has already surpassed their expectations and done more than what they expected him to do.

Point scoring will happen when Arsenal fans peddle toxic agenda against their manager and a new player who just joined the club but got written off immediately.

Be humble. I'm behind Arteta but he does need to win the title for Arsenal at the very least. Rather than getting carried away all the time, it's best to be objective about him and also talk about where he could improve or what he could have done better. One major concern I have about him is how he's handled our goalkeepers because he's messed things up for Arsenal in this area of the pitch. He let Martinez go, who is superior to both Raya and Ramsdale. Raya in goal could cost Arsenal the league this season.

 

[Mamoon]

I don't understand why you feel the need to advise others on how they post on here, when you've tried to brush Zinchenko's failings under the carpet in your first post after the game.

I have said this on record more than a dozen times that his defending is poor but what I have also said on record a dozen times is why Arteta signed him, why he preferred him to Tierney and why he has added something different to Arsenal which proved to be one of the driving forces behind the title challenge last season.

The signings of Jesus, Zinchenko and the return of Saliba were the main catalysts for Arsenal fighting for 4th place in 21/22 to fighting for the title in 22/23.

Zinchenko is very important to the way Arsenal builds attack from the back and keep possession. Zinchenko makes Arsenal difficult to defend against because his positional play is very versatile and always keeps the right back guessing.

But his defensive frailties is what prompted Arsenal to sign Timber who has a similar attacking profile but is quicker and stronger in defense.

Zinchenko wouldn’t have been a starting LB if Timber was fit so I don’t understand why Arsenal fans have such a problem with him starting. With Timber out for the season and Tomi injured as he always is, who should play LB? Roberto Carlos or Paulo Maldini?

I didn't address Martinelli because I was making a short summary so I wasn't going to micro analyse every player.

You didn’t address Martinelli because you are not willing to accept that he is not the player you and most Arsenal fans think he is or can become in the future and you don’t want to accept that he is a weak link in this Arsenal team because of his lack of intelligence and awareness.

The funny thing is you had a lot more to say about him than Zinchenko even though the Ukrainian was by far the worst player in the game, which is exactly what an agenda looks like. But this is nothing new from you.

That is because Zinchenko, Havertz and Raya are easy targets for Arsenal fans and the scapegoat every time Arsenal don’t win while no one has the courage to criticize the untouchables like Martinelli mainly because of the emotional investment and how he is viewed as one of Arsenal’s own.

You've always been doing this on PP. You did this to Younis Khan when he was our best batsman, at the time. You have a lot of bad things to say about our better players because you have no respectable standards.

Being the best batsman for Pakistan doesn’t mean you overrate him. Younis was a great player of spin but he was average against pace and there was no point in being in denial.

This is evident by how you go about raving about players like Imam and Zinchenko. You deserve this reality check because you were going all bhangra after tagging me when it was announced that Zinchenko was awarded MOTM against relegation prospect, Burnley. Please have some shame.

I don’t “rave” about Imam and Zinchenko. My only problem is when people want to chuck XYZ out of the team without naming alternatives.

It is funny when people who advocate for a rubbish player like Masood who is the worst top order batsman in history of Pakistan criticize Imam.

Imam is far from a great player but he always was and always will be much better than Masood.

A Masood fan accusing others of supporting mediocrity is the biggest joke I have ever seen.

As far Zinchenko is concerned, I have already explained above.

Coming to Martinelli, he didn't play well. It's perhaps time to give him some rest and let Trossard start the next few games.

Now we are talking. You are finally on the right track. Martinelli should never start ahead of Trossard because Trossard is light years ahead of Martinelli in terms of intelligence and game awareness, and you always want the more intelligent player to play more minutes.

Let's see how he does but what I will say is his track record of starting games pales in comparison to his impact when he comes off the bench. The Brazilian has a much better record when starting games.

The sample size of Martinelli coming from the bench is too small to make this conclusion that he is more impactful as a starter compared to as a substitute.

That is a dumb thing to deduce when Martinelli starts 99% of the matches. Martinelli has started 15 league matches this season with only appearance off the bench.

Last season he started 34 league matches and only came off the bench twice.

In EL, he started 5 matches with only two appearances off the bench.

So based on what sample are you deducing that he is more effective starting than coming off the bench?

Martinelli’s game is made for making an impact off the bench, he is the perfect player to come in the 70th min and have a go at tiring defenders is exactly the way he should be utilized.

He is just not intelligent enough to be a permanent starter and spend more than 25-30 mins of the bench.

A fresh Martinelli coming off the bench in the 70th minute after Arsenal have already ran the opposition ragged is the last thing a defense needs.

It's far too early to write him off. He's 22 and had a brilliant season during the last campaign.

No one is writing him off. The point is that he is not world class and never will be because there is nothing between his ears.

It is not about age. If you don’t have intelligence and game awareness at 22 you are unlikely to have it at 32 either. You either have it or you don’t.

Saka is also 22 but you can clearly see that he is far more clever than Martinelli and his game awareness is vastly superior. You can see it with the way he moves, the position he occupies on the pitch, the way he connects with his teammates.

People keep talking about his last season and he did score a decent amount of goals, but the fact that he scored only 15 goals with his pace and with the way Arsenal played and created chances for him shows exactly why he is not an intelligent player.

People keep saying that well, he scored more than most of the other LWs in Europe but the point is that those other LWs weren’t playing for Arsenal and getting into the positions that Martinelli was.

An intelligent winger with Martinelli’s pace playing for Arsenal last season would be producing Salah and Mane (Liverpool) type numbers.

Martinelli with his 15 goals and 5 assists across competitions last season was actually an underachievement.

I would be more worried about Mitoma because he's faded away this season, yet you think he's better than Martinelli despite the fact that he's 4 years older and therefore well ahead when it comes to his development.

I’m not worried about what players are doing at other clubs. Mitoma is not playing for Arteta and he is not playing for Arsenal. He is not coached by Arteta and he is not linking up with Arsenal players.

Mitoma playing for Arsenal would not be the Mitoma currently playing for Brighton because De Zerbi is not Arteta and they don’t have Saka, Odegaard and Jesus.

I just know that Mitoma getting coached by Arteta and feeding on the tactical insight Arteta provides to his players and linking up with players like Saka, Odegaard and Jesus would be a far more effective and consistent player than Martinelli because he has the intelligence and the game awareness to be on the same wavelength as these players. Martinelli doesn’t.

It was a penalty. Basically a basketball move from Odegaard.

It wasn’t a penalty. I have already explained the rule. If you think it was a penalty than you are making up your own rules.

You can question the ruling in the first place but as long as it is there, such incidents will not and should not be classified as handball.

It was very fortunate for Arsenal because you would expect a team of Liverpool's quality to score those 19 times out of 20.

If Arsenal missed a chance like that I would be tearing my hair out.

Again, poor decision-making and poor execution is not good fortune. The only bad luck in football is getting a bad decision from the referee. Everything else is down to your decision-making and execution in the moment.

These small moments can make a big difference in the long-term. If Arsenal beat Liverpool by 2 points to win the league, Liverpool fans should look back at this moment and the rue the missed opportunity and it will not be bad luck. It will be bad play.

Havertz has been in the PL for 3 seasons. If he was a new to the PL or a youngster playing first team football for the first time, I would've given him time. He has a long way to go before he can justify his £70m price tag and his wage of £300k+ per week.

Havertz can be in the PL for 10 seasons but anyone who joins Arsenal or any new club for that matter starts with a clean slate unless he has worked with that manager or the exact same set of players before.

Havertz joined a new team with a new coach with a new environment and a new culture. Therefore, he should have been given at least half a season to prove his worth and impatient and ignorant fans were not willing to do that and they have to face this embarrassment as Havertz continues to prove them wrong and goes from strength to strength.

As far as not justifying his price tag and salary is concerned, this new narrative is nothing but a shift in goalposts because people don’t want to admit that Havertz has started to prove them wrong.

First the narrative was that he is awful and will never contribute anything to the team. That narrative went up in fumes and now the narrative is that oh well, he had a good month but he still hasn’t proved that he is worth the money.

If he continues to go from strength to strength, the narratives will keep on changing and people will try to find a way to downplay him because they won’t have the courage to admit that they were wrong about him.

You say all this but you don't have a shred of credibility. The truth of the matter is you didn't really believe in him which is quite easy to prove.

Firstly, if we look back at post #277. You said, "If he doesn’t he doesn’t. Not the end of the world. He won’t be the first or the last player to fail. He will be sold and life will move on". This is just another way of saying "if he fails it doesn't matter". If you had any confidence in is abilities you would never have said this .

Secondly, I've offered you a bet on Havertz. I said if he proves me wrong and does well this season, I'll happily stop posting on this thread for the 24/25 season but if the reverse is true you would do the same. After his late winner against Brentford, you were getting carried away and you couldn't resist having a dig at me, so I offered the same bet, but on this occasion, I was happy to discount his performances prior to this game to give you a head start, you still didn't take up my offer. Why? Because you didn't believe in him.

I believed that Havertz will come good at Arsenal and you can go back my posts when Arsenal signed him while ignorant and impatient fans like yourself were throwing tantrums. Those posts are on record.

The reason why I believed he will come good at Arsenal is not because I didn’t think he was very poor at Chelsea over the last 12 months. Of course he was, but, Arteta went out of his way to sign him not because of the player he had become at Chelsea but the player he could become at Arsenal and the player that we saw at Leverkusen that made big clubs around Europe take note of his profile.

A tactically sophisticated manager and thinker like Arteta going out of his way to sign Havertz means only one thing: he had a clear idea of what he wanted to do with him and it was going to be a long-term thing.

Arteta saw what the impatient and ignorant fans like yourself couldn’t and we are seeing it now. Regarding what I said in the quote that you posted, I still stand by it because you need to understand the context.

A lot of quality players don’t work out at some clubs even if they are working with quality managers. Sometimes, it is not the right match just like Tuchel and Havertz weren’t a great match even though Tuchel is a fantastic coach.

Under Tuchel, Havertz had a few good moments and was even part of a CL winning squad, but during the two years they spent together, Tuchel was largely unsuccessful in getting the best out of him.

It is normal for transfers to fail and it is not always because the player is bad or the manager is bad or both. I can give you so many examples of quality players and quality coaches failing to succeed together.

Could Havertz at Arsenal under Arteta fail? Yes of course. Could it still go south? Yes of course, but that doesn’t Havertz is not good enough and Arteta is not good enough. This why you should always give the player and the manager a chance before writing a player off.

Arsenal fans wrote Havertz off before giving him a chance and now they are fending for excuses.

No respectable Arsenal fan hypes up Havertz and Zinchenko whilst goes about disrespecting Martinelli. Even AFTV idiots don't stoop this low

Martinelli has been at Arsenal for 4 years and he is still the headless chicken that he always has been. I don’t need to give him more time and see more of him or see him intake more of Arteta’s coaching to accept that he will never have the intelligence and the game awareness to be a starter at Arsenal.

I have already explained the Zinchenko situation numerous times in this post already.

As far as Havertz is concerned, I’m excited to see how far he can go under Arteta and if I could show 3 years of patience with Martinelli, I can definitely show half of that patience with Havertz.

Be humble.

I am humble. All I am asking for is patience from Arsenal fans because the manager who took Arsenal from fighting to stay in the top half to fighting for the title will also get Arsenal over the line.

It is impossible not to be impressed and excited by what Arteta has done and continues to do when you look at the trajectory of the club in his tenure and where the club was in December 2019 and where it is in December 2023.

Furthermore, when you look at the tough decisions that he took, for example, banishing captain Aubameyang who was still in his prime and the best player of the club. Such decisions take a lot of courage and guts and it was an indication that Arteta is no ordinary manager.

The only people who need humbling are those who wrote him off - and still write him off - for being a clueless fraud, for being nothing more than Pep’s assistant, for not being able to manage big games etc.

These are the fools who need humbling along with those who arrogantly wrote Havertz off before he had kicked a ball for Arsenal.

I'm behind Arteta but he does need to win the title for Arsenal at the very least.

And he will. What makes you think that a manager who revived Arsenal from the depths of mediocrity with a lazy culture and toxic fan base will not eventually deliver the title?

It will be one of the biggest shocks ever if Arteta ends his Arsenal tenure without winning at least one league title considering where the club was when he took over and where the club is today.

Rather than getting carried away all the time, it's best to be objective about him and also talk about where he could improve or what he could have done better.

Every manager makes mistakes and can improve at certain things. Is Arteta perfect? No. Has Arteta made mistakes?

Will Arteta make mistakes in the future? Of course, like every other manager.

Is Arteta a top manager and the right choice for Arsenal at this point? Absolutely yes and that is all that counts.

One major concern I have about him is how he's handled our goalkeepers because he's messed things up for Arsenal in this area of the pitch. He let Martinez go, who is superior to both Raya and Ramsdale. Raya in goal could cost Arsenal the league this season.

Martinez didn’t have the stomach to fight for his place. He didn’t want competition.

He expected to be declared number 1 after one good run in 8 years at the club. That wasn’t going to happen and it is not how Arteta operates.

Arteta, like other top managers, takes complete control of the dressing room and is not a democrat. You can’t demand him to make you number 1 and expect it to happen.

Martinez should have kept his head down and stayed at the club and competed with Leno. Eventually, he would have displaced him and would be Arsenal’s number 1 now and fighting for the PL title and playing in the CL instead of playing for a mediocre club like Aston Villa whose best achievement will be finishing 4th.

Martinez is wasting his peak years of club football by playing for Aston Villa while he could have spent his peak at Arsenal had he shown a little more patience and now get too big for his boots after finally doing something useful for the club and making his presence felt for the first time in 8 years.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Top at Xmas last season, same again this season.

Last January's transfer window was underwhelming and showed Arsenal had no real ambition to win the title

Lets see of kronkes, Edu and Arteta show something different this January coming

 

[Saj]

The performance against Liverpool wasn't great and as usual a few big names went missing in a big match, but a point at Anfield was a good outcome for the Gunners.

Still top of the league and doing well, so there is reason to be happy with things at the moment for Arsenal fans.

Surely some more signings in January?

 

[Amjid Javed]

The performance against Liverpool wasn't great and as usual a few big names went missing in a big match, but a point at Anfield was a good outcome for the Gunners.

Still top of the league and doing well, so there is reason to be happy with things at the moment for Arsenal fans.

Surely some more signings in January?

January TW will make or break title challenge like last season, if same lack of Ambition is shown again in January, there will be no title again

 

[MK7Z]

Odegard gets criticised a lot in big away games. I purposely didn't post about him to see if anyone else gives him credit.

I thought he was very good and a calming presence at Anfield. Took the ball and controlled aspects of play in a very intense atmosphere.

Had a shady moment when Liverpool came out for the 2nd half like mad men. I think he deserves credit for that performance.

I already know folks are going to say it's 1 game etc etc etc and not have it in them to say he was good.

If you think otherwise that he ghosted as he is accused off usually then I see football differently to some folks.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Odegard gets criticised a lot in big away games. I purposely didn't post about him to see if anyone else gives him credit.

I thought he was very good and a calming presence at Anfield. Took the ball and controlled aspects of play in a very intense atmosphere.

Had a shady moment when Liverpool came out for the 2nd half like mad men. I think he deserves credit for that performance.

I already know folks are going to say it's 1 game etc etc etc and not have it in them to say he was good.

If you think otherwise that he ghosted as he is accused off usually then I see football differently to some folks.

Was a decent performance from him.

3 outstanding performances were two CBs and rice.

Biggest worry apart from having to play 10 men right now is the front 3.

Martinelli has been poor for a while now, Jesus whilst he's off ball work is good, he's not offering enough in the box and not clinical enough. Quite a few fans and pundits are saying same thing our front 3 don't combine enough with each other or play with fluidity together. That has to improve espcially in the bigger tighter games.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Interesting Arsenal's 3 PL titles come when they weren't top at Xmas

 

[topspin]

I have said this on record more than a dozen times that his defending is poor but what I have also said on record a dozen times is why Arteta signed him, why he preferred him to Tierney and why he has added something different to Arsenal which proved to be one of the driving forces behind the title challenge last season.

The signings of Jesus, Zinchenko and the return of Saliba were the main catalysts for Arsenal fighting for 4th place in 21/22 to fighting for the title in 22/23.

Zinchenko is very important to the way Arsenal builds attack from the back and keep possession. Zinchenko makes Arsenal difficult to defend against because his positional play is very versatile and always keeps the right back guessing.

But his defensive frailties is what prompted Arsenal to sign Timber who has a similar attacking profile but is quicker and stronger in defense.

You need to stop justifying Zinchenko's presence for Arsenal as a left back. Every Arsenal fan I know, including the ones who's posted after the game on here, have just had enough of him except for you, who keeps coming out with excuse after excuse. Just be honest and admit that he hasn't met the expectations you had of him when he was signed from City. He's a liability as a full back.

This guy is a central midfielder. Defending isn't just a weaker suit for him, it's alien to him. I have no idea why Arteta hasn't tried him out in midfield. Is it because Pep never gave him a run in this position?

If Arteta has no intentions of playing him as a central mid, then he needs to be sold in the summer. We already have Timber, Tomiyasu and Kiwior who can play in this position.

This is something I haven't mentioned in a while but is worth revisiting. One of the reasons why Martinelli has struggled is because he's isolated and that's thanks to Zinchenko. Yet somehow you've been bashing the Brazilian and been defending the liability in the team.

I've been supporting Arsenal since 2000 and he's by far the worst left-back I've ever seen play for Arsenal.

You have a lot to say about Tierney. The only reason why we're not worse off without him is because of his injuries. When it comes to defending, pace, strength and crossing, he's miles ahead of Zinchenko. It's not even worth of comparison. Let me remind you of his masterclass against Man City during the 2019/20 FA Cup Semi-Final:

Tackle Success: 100%
Pass Accuracy: 88%
Touches: 40
Clearances: 7
Assists: 1

I don't get carried away by a good game against relegation prospect, Burnley, like you did when Zinchenko had a rare good game against them. I was in disbelief that this is all it took for you to find yourself in Cloud 9. This is why I remind you again of having respectable standards.

Zinchenko wouldn’t have been a starting LB if Timber was fit so I don’t understand why Arsenal fans have such a problem with him starting. With Timber out for the season and Tomi injured as he always is, who should play LB? Roberto Carlos or Paulo Maldini?

I would have preferred Kiwior and I actually mentioned this to a friend of mine before the game because that's how low I think of Zinchenko and I was right to think so low of him after his horror show at Anfield. I know you're going to say Kiwior can't do what Zinchenko can do in the linking up with the players in more advanced areas of the pitch, but I've always maintained that the foundation of any good defender lies with their defensive abilities. You can't be a defensive liability in any position held by a defender in the backline. Before you bring up the analogy with TAA, Zinchenko actually makes this guy look like a world class defender.

Now we are talking. You are finally on the right track. Martinelli should never start ahead of Trossard because Trossard is light years ahead of Martinelli in terms of intelligence and game awareness, and you always want the more intelligent player to play more minutes.

The sample size of Martinelli coming from the bench is too small to make this conclusion that he is more impactful as a starter compared to as a substitute.

That is a dumb thing to deduce when Martinelli starts 99% of the matches. Martinelli has started 15 league matches this season with only appearance off the bench.

Last season he started 34 league matches and only came off the bench twice.

In EL, he started 5 matches with only two appearances off the bench.

So based on what sample are you deducing that he is more effective starting than coming off the bench?

Martinelli’s game is made for making an impact off the bench, he is the perfect player to come in the 70th min and have a go at tiring defenders is exactly the way he should be utilized.

He is just not intelligent enough to be a permanent starter and spend more than 25-30 mins of the bench.

A fresh Martinelli coming off the bench in the 70th minute after Arsenal have already ran the opposition ragged is the last thing a defense needs.

Martinelli is still better than Trossard and he starts ahead of him because he's more suited for high tempo games and he's the best tracking back winger in the league. But you won't give him credit for this.

Trossard doesn't have Martinelli's work rate and is more suited for a slow temp game where Arsenal are totally dominant. When he came in to replace Martinelli, he was also woeful. It should be easier for players who come from the bench to change a game because they have studied and observed their opponent.

Trossard was actually even worse than Martinelli against Liverpool:

0 take on completed
Only 7 successful passes completed
Lost the ball 10 times
Lost all his duels

The only reason why I want Trossard to start the next 2-3 games is because Martinelli needs a rest.

It wasn’t a penalty. I have already explained the rule. If you think it was a penalty than you are making up your own rules.

You can question the ruling in the first place but as long as it is there, such incidents will not and should not be classified as handball.

I don't know a single fan/pundit who agrees with you. I saw it with my own eyes and it was certainly a penalty. It was so obvious even Saliba couldn't hide it during his post-match interview.

Havertz can be in the PL for 10 seasons but anyone who joins Arsenal or any new club for that matter starts with a clean slate unless he has worked with that manager or the exact same set of players before.

Havertz joined a new team with a new coach with a new environment and a new culture. Therefore, he should have been given at least half a season to prove his worth and impatient and ignorant fans were not willing to do that and they have to face this embarrassment as Havertz continues to prove them wrong and goes from strength to strength.

As far as not justifying his price tag and salary is concerned, this new narrative is nothing but a shift in goalposts because people don’t want to admit that Havertz has started to prove them wrong.

First the narrative was that he is awful and will never contribute anything to the team. That narrative went up in fumes and now the narrative is that oh well, he had a good month but he still hasn’t proved that he is worth the money.

If he continues to go from strength to strength, the narratives will keep on changing and people will try to find a way to downplay him because they won’t have the courage to admit that they were wrong about him.

Don't you worry if Havertz proves me wrong, I'll be the first to admit it but I'm pretty sure he won't live up to his price tag and his wages because when he's not scoring, he doesn't have much else to offer, which goes to back what I've said, he's a confidence player who will continue to blow hot and cold. With the exception of centre forwards, who are worth more than other players, if you are paying £70m, you want a good consistent player who's one of the best players in his position. Havertz is nowhere near the best player in his position. In fact, nobody really knows what his best position is. Recently, he played left back for Germany which speaks volumes about this issue.

He's had a good run of games but I'm sorry I don't see what there is that excites me about him.

It just seems to me you follow everything Arteta does blindly.

Martinelli has been at Arsenal for 4 years and he is still the headless chicken that he always has been. I don’t need to give him more time and see more of him or see him intake more of Arteta’s coaching to accept that he will never have the intelligence and the game awareness to be a starter at Arsenal.

I have already explained the Zinchenko situation numerous times in this post already.

As far as Havertz is concerned, I’m excited to see how far he can go under Arteta and if I could show 3 years of patience with Martinelli, I can definitely show half of that patience with Havertz.

Havertz is 24 and therefore 2 years older than Martinelli, yet the latter is rated as one of the best players in his position.

I wonder if Havertz will ever be rated as one of the best CAMs in his career?

And he will. What makes you think that a manager who revived Arsenal from the depths of mediocrity with a lazy culture and toxic fan base will not eventually deliver the title?

It will be one of the biggest shocks ever if Arteta ends his Arsenal tenure without winning at least one league title considering where the club was when he took over and where the club is today.

This is something we agree on. I do think Arteta will deliver multiple league titles and I also think we'll make it to the UCL final as well.

 

[topspin]

Odegard gets criticised a lot in big away games. I purposely didn't post about him to see if anyone else gives him credit.

I thought he was very good and a calming presence at Anfield. Took the ball and controlled aspects of play in a very intense atmosphere.

Had a shady moment when Liverpool came out for the 2nd half like mad men. I think he deserves credit for that performance.

I already know folks are going to say it's 1 game etc etc etc and not have it in them to say he was good.

If you think otherwise that he ghosted as he is accused off usually then I see football differently to some folks.

It's an interesting one because he got mixed reviews.

I think Odegaard for large parts played well and obviously deserves credit for the assist which led to Gabriel's goal but he also rode his luck when he had two clumsy moments:

1. His handball should've led to a penalty
2. He miskicked an attempt on the half-volley outside the box which led to Liverpool being 5 v 1. Zinchenko clattered into him, but the miskick is what kick started (pun intended) this chain of events

 

[MK7Z]

Ye those 2 moments stick out. To be fair he did lose his footing in both, it was part of the game when Zinchenko was playing against us

 

[Mamoon]

You need to stop justifying Zinchenko's presence for Arsenal as a left back. Every Arsenal fan I know, including the ones who's posted after the game on here, have just had enough of him except for you, who keeps coming out with excuse after excuse. Just be honest and admit that he hasn't met the expectations you had of him when he was signed from City. He's a liability as a full back.

Zinchenko has met the expectations that Arsenal had from him when he signed from City. Everyone knew that he was defensively weak but his passing range and vision are extremely good and this is why Arteta signed him.

He has given Arsenal more control in possession and helps the team build from the back. Him playing the inverted LB role helped drive Arsenal’s title charge last season and took the team to a higher level so his signing was a success.

This guy is a central midfielder. Defending isn't just a weaker suit for him, it's alien to him. I have no idea why Arteta hasn't tried him out in midfield. Is it because Pep never gave him a run in this position?

The narrative that Arteta only copies Pep and has no tactics of his own is a myth that died years ago. It is not 2020 anymore. Arteta has picked up a lot of things from Pep just like he has from Wenger but he has his own ideas of how he wants to play football.

The reason why Arteta hasn’t tried him in midfield is because he likes him as an inverted LB and he has been successful in this role.

Arsenal didn’t miss out on the title last season because of him but he certainly played a massive role in driving Arsenal’s title challenge.

Yes he is defensively weak and this is why Arteta signed Timber and played him as an inverted LB at the start of the season before he got injured.

When Timber comes back, we might see Zinchenko play in midfield at times but in Timber’s absence, Zinchenko will play the inverted LB role because Kiwior cannot give Arsenal the control in possession than Zinchenko does.

If Arteta has no intentions of playing him as a central mid, then he needs to be sold in the summer. We already have Timber, Tomiyasu and Kiwior who can play in this position.

There is no reason to sell him unless he pushes for a move knowing that his chances of being a starter will be limited after Timber returns.

However, it is always great to have squad depth and ideally, Arsenal should not look to sell any defender in the summer to ensure that they have enough numbers to fight across competitions.

This is something I haven't mentioned in a while but is worth revisiting. One of the reasons why Martinelli has struggled is because he's isolated and that's thanks to Zinchenko. Yet somehow you've been bashing the Brazilian and been defending the liability in the team.

Zinchenko was there last season as well and you claim that Martinelli had a really good season last year and was one of Arsenal’s players of the season.

So how did Martinelli excel last season if he is struggling this season due to Zinchenko?

Martinelli is struggling not because of Zinchenko or anyone else. He is struggling because of his own weaknesses, mainly his lack of intelligence and awareness.

More than Zinchenko or any other individual player, Martinelli has been exposed this season because Arteta has compromised on flair and freedom for more control this season and as a result, Martinelli has less space to exploit and is getting fewer chances and he is clearly technically not good enough to offer control in possession and we can see it this season.

I've been supporting Arsenal since 2000 and he's by far the worst left-back I've ever seen play for Arsenal.

If you have been supporting Arsenal since 2000, you would have seen Kieran Gibbs play who was by far the worst LB Arsenal have had in the post Ashley Cole era.

He was a disaster both in defensive and offense. Zinchenko in spite of his defensive frailties is miles better than him.

You have a lot to say about Tierney. The only reason why we're not worse off without him is because of his injuries. When it comes to defending, pace, strength and crossing, he's miles ahead of Zinchenko. It's not even worth of comparison. Let me remind you of his masterclass against Man City during the 2019/20 FA Cup Semi-Final:

Tackle Success: 100%
Pass Accuracy: 88%
Touches: 40
Clearances: 7
Assists: 1

I don't get carried away by a good game against relegation prospect, Burnley, like you did when Zinchenko had a rare good game against them. I was in disbelief that this is all it took for you to find yourself in Cloud 9. This is why I remind you again of having respectable standards.

Tierney is a good LB but he is a traditional, conventional LB who cannot play the inverted role and offer control in possession that Zinchenko does.

Arteta doesn’t want his LB overlapping all the time and crossing the ball. He makes Arsenal very predictable because he is a very orthodox, generic LB. Zinchenko makes Arsenal very difficult to defend against because of the positions he occupies on the pitch.

Zinchenko is a good LB but he is not what Arteta wants and cannot play the type of football that Arteta wants his LB to play.

I would have preferred Kiwior and I actually mentioned this to a friend of mine before the game because that's how low I think of Zinchenko and I was right to think so low of him after his horror show at Anfield. I know you're going to say Kiwior can't do what Zinchenko can do in the linking up with the players in more advanced areas of the pitch, but I've always maintained that the foundation of any good defender lies with their defensive abilities. You can't be a defensive liability in any position held by a defender in the backline. Before you bring up the analogy with TAA, Zinchenko actually makes this guy look like a world class defender.

Iwior cannot offer the control in possession that Zinchenko does. Your idea of football is to prioritize defense over attack when it comes to full-backs but Arteta sees it differently especially because Arsenal already have a defensive-minded RB (White). White is pretty good on the ball but at times, he is almost playing as a third CB.

Playing Iwior as LB would basically be playing two Ben Whites and Arteta doesn’t want that which is why he doesn’t play him over Zinchenko.

Martinelli is still better than Trossard and he starts ahead of him because he's more suited for high tempo games and he's the best tracking back winger in the league. But you won't give him credit for this.

It is not that big a deal to track back when your only quality is running like a headless chicken. I would give credit for his defensive work rate if he were to take smart decisions on the ball and keep his head up when in possession.

Trossard doesn't have Martinelli's work rate and is more suited for a slow temp game where Arsenal are totally dominant. When he came in to replace Martinelli, he was also woeful. It should be easier for players who come from the bench to change a game because they have studied and observed their opponent.

Trossard was actually even worse than Martinelli against Liverpool:

0 take on completed
Only 7 successful passes completed
Lost the ball 10 times
Lost all his duels

The only reason why I want Trossard to start the next 2-3 games is because Martinelli needs a rest.

Trossard doesn’t have Martinelli’s pace and doesn’t run around like a headless chicken but he helps the team keep the ball and can actually scan the pitch and make the right decisions.

I don't know a single fan/pundit who agrees with you. I saw it with my own eyes and it was certainly a penalty. It was so obvious even Saliba couldn't hide it during his post-match interview.

Most fans and pundits don’t educate themselves on the rules and this is why some of the ref/VAR bashing goes overboard.

They see things with their own eyes (like you) and they don’t understand why the ref did what he did because they don’t understand the refs perspective. The refs has a law book to comply with and he interprets the laws accordingly.

I don’t care if you or if thousands of people think that Odegaard handling the ball was a foul and therefore a penalty. The fact is that it wasn’t illegal handling of the ball as I proved earlier and this is why the referee didn’t declare it a penalty.

Don't you worry if Havertz proves me wrong, I'll be the first to admit it but I'm pretty sure he won't live up to his price tag and his wages because when he's not scoring, he doesn't have much else to offer, which goes to back what I've said, he's a confidence player who will continue to blow hot and cold. With the exception of centre forwards, who are worth more than other players, if you are paying £70m, you want a good consistent player who's one of the best players in his position. Havertz is nowhere near the best player in his position. In fact, nobody really knows what his best position is. Recently, he played left back for Germany which speaks volumes about this issue. He's had a good run of games but I'm sorry I don't see what there is that excites me about him.

“Will not justify price tag” or “won’t live up to the price tag” are vague statements. It is a cop-out used by those who wrote him off and were very aggressive and hostile with their criticism before he had kicked a ball for Arsenal.

Havertz in the last month has clearly performed better than they expected him to so the narrative has changed from “he is terrible and he will never do anything” to “he blows hot n cold” and “he won’t justify his price tag”.

Who defines the parameters of price tag justification? Who decides the rules for when a player has justified a price tag or not.

As I said, it is an open-minded vague statement that can be applied as per your convenience and agenda.

If he scores X goals and Y assists, you can claim that he hasn’t justified his price tag because to do so, he should have scored X+5 goals and provided Y+5 assists.

As far as him playing different positions are concerned, how is that a problem? It is his strength and it is one of the reasons why Arteta signed him. His versatility is his main strength because he offers something different can be deployed in a variety of roles and tactics.

It just seems to me you follow everything Arteta does blindly.

I think Arteta is a brilliant manager but there are many things that he did, does and will do in the future that I don’t agree with.

Havertz is 24 and therefore 2 years older than Martinelli, yet the latter is rated as one of the best players in his position.

I wonder if Havertz will ever be rated as one of the best CAMs in his career?

No one rates Martinelli as one of the best players in his position. Only his fans do.

If you are one of the best in your position, you are world class and Arsenal only have four world class players who are globally recognized as amongst the best in their respective positions:

Rice, Odegaard, Saliba and Saka.

As far as Havertz v Martinelli is concerned, Havertz has far more significant achievements for club and country by 2023 and since they are at the same club now and will be part of Arsenal’s success together, it is highly unlikely that Martinelli will surpass Havertz.

This is something we agree on. I do think Arteta will deliver multiple league titles and I also think we'll make it to the UCL final as well.

Absolutely. There is no doubt.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

MIKEL ARTETA CONFIRMS ARSENAL PLAN TO BE ACTIVE IN JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW

The Gunners are once again challenging for the title this season and they can go back top of the Premier League if they beat West Ham on Thursday.

Arsenal spent over £200million on new signings in the summer, but Arteta has said they could add to the squad in January.

The Gunners are short on options in defence due to injuries, while they have also been scouting midfielders and forwards.

“If there is something that we can [do to] improve the squad and that needs appear, and we cannot fulfil it with players here, we are always going to be open to do that because we want to be stronger,” said Arteta.

“We have certain targets, ideas if things happen. As well, we don’t know how the squad is going to look in two weeks’ time and you have to be always prepared for that.

“But it is a very, very tricky market that shifts very quickly and it is quite unpredictable as well - and you have to be prepared. We will be prepared and we will try to make the right calls.”

Arsenal have been hit hard by injuries this season and will be without four players for the match with West Ham at Emirates Stadium, while Kai Havertz is also suspended.

“We have positions that we have been very exposed for the last six weeks and hopefully we are going to get players back.

“In what condition and when? That’s a question mark and as well because we have some long-term injuries still for certain players that give us a lot of versatility and that’s an issue.”

Source NEFOOTBALL

 

[Amjid Javed]

Zinchenko has met the expectations that Arsenal had from him when he signed from City. Everyone knew that he was defensively weak but his passing range and vision are extremely good and this is why Arteta signed him.

He has given Arsenal more control in possession and helps the team build from the back. Him playing the inverted LB role helped drive Arsenal’s title charge last season and took the team to a higher level so his signing was a success.


The narrative that Arteta only copies Pep and has no tactics of his own is a myth that died years ago. It is not 2020 anymore. Arteta has picked up a lot of things from Pep just like he has from Wenger but he has his own ideas of how he wants to play football.

The reason why Arteta hasn’t tried him in midfield is because he likes him as an inverted LB and he has been successful in this role.

Arsenal didn’t miss out on the title last season because of him but he certainly played a massive role in driving Arsenal’s title challenge.

Yes he is defensively weak and this is why Arteta signed Timber and played him as an inverted LB at the start of the season before he got injured.

When Timber comes back, we might see Zinchenko play in midfield at times but in Timber’s absence, Zinchenko will play the inverted LB role because Kiwior cannot give Arsenal the control in possession than Zinchenko does.

There is no reason to sell him unless he pushes for a move knowing that his chances of being a starter will be limited after Timber returns.

However, it is always great to have squad depth and ideally, Arsenal should not look to sell any defender in the summer to ensure that they have enough numbers to fight across competitions.

Zinchenko was there last season as well and you claim that Martinelli had a really good season last year and was one of Arsenal’s players of the season.

So how did Martinelli excel last season if he is struggling this season due to Zinchenko?

Martinelli is struggling not because of Zinchenko or anyone else. He is struggling because of his own weaknesses, mainly his lack of intelligence and awareness.

More than Zinchenko or any other individual player, Martinelli has been exposed this season because Arteta has compromised on flair and freedom for more control this season and as a result, Martinelli has less space to exploit and is getting fewer chances and he is clearly technically not good enough to offer control in possession and we can see it this season.

If you have been supporting Arsenal since 2000, you would have seen Kieran Gibbs play who was by far the worst LB Arsenal have had in the post Ashley Cole era.

He was a disaster both in defensive and offense. Zinchenko in spite of his defensive frailties is miles better than him.

Tierney is a good LB but he is a traditional, conventional LB who cannot play the inverted role and offer control in possession that Zinchenko does.

Arteta doesn’t want his LB overlapping all the time and crossing the ball. He makes Arsenal very predictable because he is a very orthodox, generic LB. Zinchenko makes Arsenal very difficult to defend against because of the positions he occupies on the pitch.

Zinchenko is a good LB but he is not what Arteta wants and cannot play the type of football that Arteta wants his LB to play.

Iwior cannot offer the control in possession that Zinchenko does. Your idea of football is to prioritize defense over attack when it comes to full-backs but Arteta sees it differently especially because Arsenal already have a defensive-minded RB (White). White is pretty good on the ball but at times, he is almost playing as a third CB.

Playing Iwior as LB would basically be playing two Ben Whites and Arteta doesn’t want that which is why he doesn’t play him over Zinchenko.

It is not that big a deal to track back when your only quality is running like a headless chicken. I would give credit for his defensive work rate if he were to take smart decisions on the ball and keep his head up when in possession.

Trossard doesn’t have Martinelli’s pace and doesn’t run around like a headless chicken but he helps the team keep the ball and can actually scan the pitch and make the right decisions.

Most fans and pundits don’t educate themselves on the rules and this is why some of the ref/VAR bashing goes overboard.

They see things with their own eyes (like you) and they don’t understand why the ref did what he did because they don’t understand the refs perspective. The refs has a law book to comply with and he interprets the laws accordingly.

I don’t care if you or if thousands of people think that Odegaard handling the ball was a foul and therefore a penalty. The fact is that it wasn’t illegal handling of the ball as I proved earlier and this is why the referee didn’t declare it a penalty.

“Will not justify price tag” or “won’t live up to the price tag” are vague statements. It is a cop-out used by those who wrote him off and were very aggressive and hostile with their criticism before he had kicked a ball for Arsenal.

Havertz in the last month has clearly performed better than they expected him to so the narrative has changed from “he is terrible and he will never do anything” to “he blows hot n

 

[Amjid Javed]

I've read some over hype in this thread but mamoon has surpassed it will his latest "statement"

None of Arsenal's players are world class "yet" So not sure on what so called logic your calling Rice, saliba, oddegard and saka.

Rice is a very good player but needs to still fully prove himself still at CL level, which I am sure he will do. He's not there yet, he also needs to win league titles of back of his performances.

Saliba same he needs to prove himself in CL, establish himself as Frances main CB, also win titles. In case of saliba he can become a generational talent. But again not world class yet.

Oddegard - seriously stop smoking crack or what ever drugs you are on. The guy went missing at back end of last season. Usually dissapears in big games. Unproven in the CL. His performances for Norway are as mediocre as they come. The fact Norway struggle to even get close to qualify got tournaments says it all.

Saka - same as rice and saliba. Needs to be fully proven in CL (he's done well so far), also at international level he needs to really show elite performances in crunch international tournaments games which help England win something. Also saka needs to stop dissapearing at back end of the season for Arsenal.

You clearly don't know what world class is, once again jumping gun to quickly.

 

[Mamoon]

I've read some over hype in this thread but mamoon has surpassed it will his latest "statement"

None of Arsenal's players are world class "yet" So not sure on what so called logic your calling Rice, saliba, oddegard and saka.

Rice is a very good player but needs to still fully prove himself still at CL level, which I am sure he will do. He's not there yet, he also needs to win league titles of back of his performances.

Saliba same he needs to prove himself in CL, establish himself as Frances main CB, also win titles. In case of saliba he can become a generational talent. But again not world class yet.

Oddegard - seriously stop smoking crack or what ever drugs you are on. The guy went missing at back end of last season. Usually dissapears in big games. Unproven in the CL. His performances for Norway are as mediocre as they come. The fact Norway struggle to even get close to qualify got tournaments says it all.

Saka - same as rice and saliba. Needs to be fully proven in CL (he's done well so far), also at international level he needs to really show elite performances in crunch international tournaments games which help England win something. Also saka needs to stop dissapearing at back end of the season for Arsenal.

You clearly don't know what world class is, once again jumping gun to quickly.

Utter nonsense as usual. You have no idea what you are talking about as usual and it would also help if you could learn to spell the name of the captain of the club that you support.

Who the hell is “Oddegard”?

Being a world class player has nothing to do with team titles or proving yourself in XYZ competitions. Besides, you are kidding yourself if you think the four players that I mentioned will find it it difficult to prove themselves in the CL if they haven’t already.

There is only one criteria for being a world class player and that is to be amongst the best in the world in your respective position. That fulfills the criteria of being world class.

The four players that I mentioned are amongst the best in class in their respective positions and they are recognized for it. Ergo, they are world class.

“needs to prove himself in XYZ competition, goes missing this and that, needs to win the league etc.” are all arbitrary BS that means absolutely nothing

Reminds me of the idiots who used to challenge Messi’s goat status by claiming that he needs to prove himself at club level outside Barcelona and win a World Cup for Argentina.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Utter nonsense as usual. You have no idea what you are talking about as usual and it would also help if you could learn to spell the name of the captain of the club that you support.

Who the hell is “Oddegard”?

Being a world class player has nothing to do with team titles or proving yourself in XYZ competitions. Besides, you are kidding yourself if you think the four players that I mentioned will find it it difficult to prove themselves in the CL if they haven’t already.

There is only one criteria for being a world class player and that is to be amongst the best in the world in your respective position. That fulfills the criteria of being world class.

The four players that I mentioned are amongst the best in class in their respective positions and they are recognized for it. Ergo, they are world class.

“needs to prove himself in XYZ competition, goes missing this and that, needs to win the league etc.” are all arbitrary BS that means absolutely nothing

Reminds me of the idiots who used to challenge Messi’s goat status by claiming that he needs to prove himself at club level outside Barcelona and win a World Cup for Argentina.

Only one criteria to be world class? wow, you really do continue to talk out of your backside.

Yet another example of your low standards . The fact you use the words "great" for Arteta and ",world class" for Oddegard showd how clueless you really are.

Your 1,000 word essays are utterly nonsense.

In regards to Messi he was world class because he performed season after season for Barca in league and CL.

Thr Argentina performances were brought up by people around the world purely on basis of comparison over Maradona which was completely different discussion and nothing to do with "world class" being the topic

You are a world class nonsense talker.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Zinchenko has met the expectations that Arsenal had from him when he signed from City. Everyone knew that he was defensively weak but his passing range and vision are extremely good and this is why Arteta signed him.

He has given Arsenal more control in possession and helps the team build from the back. Him playing the inverted LB role helped drive Arsenal’s title charge last season and took the team to a higher level so his signing was a success.


The narrative that Arteta only copies Pep and has no tactics of his own is a myth that died years ago. It is not 2020 anymore. Arteta has picked up a lot of things from Pep just like he has from Wenger but he has his own ideas of how he wants to play football.

The reason why Arteta hasn’t tried him in midfield is because he likes him as an inverted LB and he has been successful in this role.

Arsenal didn’t miss out on the title last season because of him but he certainly played a massive role in driving Arsenal’s title challenge.

Yes he is defensively weak and this is why Arteta signed Timber and played him as an inverted LB at the start of the season before he got injured.

When Timber comes back, we might see Zinchenko play in midfield at times but in Timber’s absence, Zinchenko will play the inverted LB role because Kiwior cannot give Arsenal the control in possession than Zinchenko does.

There is no reason to sell him unless he pushes for a move knowing that his chances of being a starter will be limited after Timber returns.

However, it is always great to have squad depth and ideally, Arsenal should not look to sell any defender in the summer to ensure that they have enough numbers to fight across competitions.

Zinchenko was there last season as well and you claim that Martinelli had a really good season last year and was one of Arsenal’s players of the season.

So how did Martinelli excel last season if he is struggling this season due to Zinchenko?

Martinelli is struggling not because of Zinchenko or anyone else. He is struggling because of his own weaknesses, mainly his lack of intelligence and awareness.

More than Zinchenko or any other individual player, Martinelli has been exposed this season because Arteta has compromised on flair and freedom for more control this season and as a result, Martinelli has less space to exploit and is getting fewer chances and he is clearly technically not good enough to offer control in possession and we can see it this season.

If you have been supporting Arsenal since 2000, you would have seen Kieran Gibbs play who was by far the worst LB Arsenal have had in the post Ashley Cole era.

He was a disaster both in defensive and offense. Zinchenko in spite of his defensive frailties is miles better than him.

Tierney is a good LB but he is a traditional, conventional LB who cannot play the inverted role and offer control in possession that Zinchenko does.

Arteta doesn’t want his LB overlapping all the time and crossing the ball. He makes Arsenal very predictable because he is a very orthodox, generic LB. Zinchenko makes Arsenal very difficult to defend against because of the positions he occupies on the pitch.

Zinchenko is a good LB but he is not what Arteta wants and cannot play the type of football that Arteta wants his LB to play.

Iwior cannot offer the control in possession that Zinchenko does. Your idea of football is to prioritize defense over attack when it comes to full-backs but Arteta sees it differently especially because Arsenal already have a defensive-minded RB (White). White is pretty good on the ball but at times, he is almost playing as a third CB.

Playing Iwior as LB would basically be playing two Ben Whites and Arteta doesn’t want that which is why he doesn’t play him over Zinchenko.

It is not that big a deal to track back when your only quality is running like a headless chicken. I would give credit for his defensive work rate if he were to take smart decisions on the ball and keep his head up when in possession.

Trossard doesn’t have Martinelli’s pace and doesn’t run around like a headless chicken but he helps the team keep the ball and can actually scan the pitch and make the right decisions.

Most fans and pundits don’t educate themselves on the rules and this is why some of the ref/VAR bashing goes overboard.

They see things with their own eyes (like you) and they don’t understand why the ref did what he did because they don’t understand the refs perspective. The refs has a law book to comply with and he interprets the laws accordingly.

I don’t care if you or if thousands of people think that Odegaard handling the ball was a foul and therefore a penalty. The fact is that it wasn’t illegal handling of the ball as I proved earlier and this is why the referee didn’t declare it a penalty.

“Will not justify price tag” or “won’t live up to the price tag” are vague statements. It is a cop-out used by those who wrote him off and were very aggressive and hostile with their criticism before he had kicked a ball for Arsenal.

Havertz in the last month has clearly performed better than they expected him to so the narrative has changed from “he is terrible and he will never do anything” to “he blows hot n cold” and “he won’t justify his price tag”.

Who defines the parameters of price tag justification? Who decides the rules for when a player has justified a price tag or not.

As I said, it is an open-minded vague statement that can be applied as per your convenience and agenda.

If he scores X goals and Y assists, you can claim that he hasn’t justified his price tag because to do so, he should have scored X+5 goals and provided Y+5 assists.

As far as him playing different positions are concerned, how is that a problem? It is his strength and it is one of the reasons why Arteta signed him. His versatility is his main strength because he offers something different can be deployed in a variety of roles and tactics.


I think Arteta is a brilliant manager but there are many things that he did, does and will do in the future that I don’t agree with.

No one rates Martinelli as one of the best players in his position. Only his fans do.

If you are one of the best in your position, you are world class and Arsenal only have four world class players who are globally recognized as amongst the best in their respective positions:

Rice, Odegaard, Saliba and Saka.

As far as Havertz v Martinelli is concerned, Havertz has far more significant achievements for club and country by 2023 and since they are at the same club now and will be part of Arsenal’s success together, it is highly unlikely that Martinelli will surpass Havertz.

Absolutely. There is no doubt.

To summarise

You like twerking for Arteta
You have 100 excuses for Zinchenko who according to you is best player ever seen
Havertz is greatest German player of all time
You have a Martinelli agenda

 

[Amjid Javed]

With Liverpool, City winning its over to Arsenal to respond against West ham with 3 points.

 

[topspin]

Yet more copy paste and repeat, your like a broken record

To summarise

You like twerking for Arteta
You have 100 excuses for Zinchenko who according to you is best player ever seen
Havertz is greatest German player of all time
You have a Martinelli agenda

@topspin @Technics 1210 @KingKhanWC are you guys ables to stay awake after these repested copy and paste and repeat stories from mamoon.

Spot on with the Martinelli agenda.

No respectable Arsenal fan would show more disgust towards him than Zinchenko, who's the biggest liability in the team.

Make it make sense are the words that come to mind.

 

[Technics 1210]

For me it is the duplicity that cracks me up. If we are to take Mamoon's definition of World-class, then half of Pakistan's cricket squad are World class, but obviously his logic in football does not transpose to Cricket according to him.

As for Messi, no one doubted he was world class, but the debate was whether he was a GOAT, and for that he needed a WC. Nice distortion attempt though.

The reality is I cannot respect the views of Arsenal fans who undermine Wenger's achievements, and I am speaking as a spectator in this quality thread.

Looking forward to Arsenal v West Ham tonight!

 

[Amjid Javed]

@topspin @Firebat @MK7Z - your choices to come into midfield tonight? Also any other changes?

 

[Amjid Javed]

Trossard starts in midfield. Should be good game as west ham have a good midfield also