Arsenal FC | 2023/24 Season

[Mamoon]

Arteta was tactically poor today
Zinchenko showing he is a world class liability
Oddegard world class ghosted
Jesus a world class striker in missing sitters

On top if that number 1 test team India humilated vs South Africa

Worst possible day for mamoon and he's in full flow for excuses

Odegaard*

Odegaard*

Odegaard*

Odegaard*

Odegaard*

 

[IAJ]

The bottling job has started already?

 

[Amjid Javed]

Moyes 1st away win against Arsenal as a manager

Moyes started at West ham 1 week after Arteta started at Arsenal.

4 years at each club. 1 trophy each and certain fans want to do bhangra over Arteta like he's the messiah.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

From the game I saw Zinchenko and Martinelli were both poor, as was Jesus, the guy is a good player but not a killer striker and that's something Arsenal desperately need

I thought Odegaard played well, created a few decent chances, not his fault if others didn't finish them

 

[KingKhanWC]

More nonsense.

Struggling against one particular opponent doesn’t mean anything. These things happen in football.

You would understand if you knew anything about football but I guess it is too much to ask for from someone living in Alum Rock as a second class citizen.

Arteta isn’t fit to shine Klopp’s glasses yet Klopp can’t beat him at Anfield.

its no major shock. Your team cant score goals.

Mo Salah alone has scored more goals than your front 3

I will help educate you as you've never been to a Prem game and clearly dont understand the sport.

Rule. 1 To win.....you have to score goals

 

[Amjid Javed]

Even if they don’t win the league this season, so what? Is this the last season ever? You have to build on what you have and always look to improve.

Find better players than Martinelli and Jesus and go again. Keep on building on what you have and eventually it will happen.

The important thing is to have the pieces in place and eventually it will click. The good news for Arsenal is that the club is in great hands. The leadership that took Arsenal from struggling to stay in the top 10 to fighting for the title will also get Arsenal over the finishing line.

Oh here we go, the excuses have started already.

your making excuses over what will be a 4th trophyless season in a row.

Arsenal vs Liverpool in FA Cup is make or break for Arteta now.

Arsenal ain't winning League or CL, so FA cup is only way Arteta salvaged anything this season. He can't afford to go out to Liverpool in the cup

 

[Mamoon]

I'm no Liverpool fan. But are you seriously putting Arteta with Klopp!
Pep himself admitted recently his toughest opponent in the dug out was klopp. Remember Pep been up against quality managers through out his career

Klopp is an underachiever. He has had the keys to one of Liverpool’s greatest ever teams and he has failed to show any domestic dominance.

1 league title in 9 years is an underachievement considering the players he has had at his disposal post 2018.

From 2018 to 2023, a combined Liverpool and City XI would almost be 50-50 but City have picked 5 titles and Liverpool have won only 1, and there have been two seasons where they either missed out on the top 4 or barely scraped into it.

Klopp has a nothing legacy in English football. He has been rag-dolled by Pep in title races and orchestrated multiple bottle jobs, most notably in 2018-19 when he surrendered a 10 pt lead in the second half of the season.

I will be very, very disappointed if Arteta has only 1 PL title after 9 years at Arsenal.

In other words, Klopp is no benchmark for Arteta or any other manager in English football because Klopp has achieved very little in English football.

 

[MK7Z]

From the game I saw Zinchenko and Martinelli were both poor, as was Jesus, the guy is a good player but not a killer striker and that's something Arsenal desperately need

I thought Odegaard played well, created a few decent chances, not his fault if others didn't finish them

100% correct

Zinchenko is getting worse and could tell the crowd was turning on him. Good riddance

Poor finishing. Bad day at the office but West Ham defended brilliantly credit to them. To win titles you can't lose at home. 2 points off top nothing is won or lost but a striker is a must..

Odegaard was only decent player for Arsenal. To say he ghosted is a clear agenda which I have suspected for a while from certain posters.

 

[Amjid Javed]

From the game I saw Zinchenko and Martinelli were both poor, as was Jesus, the guy is a good player but not a killer striker and that's something Arsenal desperately need

I thought Odegaard played well, created a few decent chances, not his fault if others didn't finish them

Zinchenko and Martinelli have been poor pretty much all season and keep being played. A competent manager changes things and trusts his squad. A clueless manager keeps picking passengers hoping for the best.

All ghostgaard did was play with his hair all game. Mediocre captain

 

[MK7Z]

Why does it sometimes feel like some Arsenal fans are happy that Arsenal lose just so they can slate other Arsenal fans?

Maybs it's just me who thinks that.

 

[Mamoon]

Oh here we go, the excuses have started already.

your making excuses over what will be a 4th trophyless season in a row.

Arsenal vs Liverpool in FA Cup is make or break for Arteta now.

Arsenal ain't winning League or CL, so FA cup is only way Arteta salvaged anything this season. He can't afford to go out to Liverpool in the cup

Arteta has raised Arsenal standards again after they were compromised in the second half of Wenger’s era and Emery failed to raise the standards as well.

Arteta has Arsenal fans dreaming of the title again after years of mediocrity so please don’t talk about standards.

Domestic cups mean nothing if you’re not fighting for the title.

 

[Mamoon]

Why does it sometimes feel like some Arsenal fans are happy that Arsenal lose just so they can slate other Arsenal fans?

Maybs it's just me who thinks that.

Because agendas are more important than seeing the team that you support win.

These people would hate to see Arteta win the league because that would mean getting egged in the face, but that should be a small price to pay for experiencing the joy and happiness of watching your team win.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

More nonsense.

Struggling against one particular opponent doesn’t mean anything. These things happen in football.

You would understand if you knew anything about football but I guess it is too much to ask for from someone living in Alum Rock as a second class citizen.

Arteta isn’t fit to shine Klopp’s glasses yet Klopp can’t beat him at Anfield.

So with your reckoning then Pep is a poor manager because he can't buy a draw at spurs let alone a win?

If you think Arteta has it over kopp

 

[Amjid Javed]

Reality check tonight for alot of the fan base.

Same liabilities in team causing self inflicted harm to team again

Arteta tactic of using trossard in midfield didn't work and nothing was done to change it

Impotence and lack of fluidity of front 3 showing again

Most of all fans getting carried away after Liverpool drew 2 games in row and man city drawing a few games at home as well.

Arsenal have now drawn london derby's at home to spurs, Fulham and lost to west ham! So not exactly great either

We are only 2 points of top, but man city are now 3 points behind us with a game in hand

 

[Amjid Javed]

its no major shock. Your team cant score goals.

Mo Salah alone has scored more goals than your front 3

I will help educate you as you've never been to a Prem game and clearly dont understand the sport.

Rule. 1 To win.....you have to score goals

Dominic solanke has more goals then our front 3 thats how poor Arsenal's front 3 have been collectively this season

 

[MK7Z]

On a side note to make people chuckle at least.
We bought on an attacker to replace Zinchenko and looked more solid defensively.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Arteta has raised Arsenal standards again after they were compromised in the second half of Wenger’s era and Emery failed to raise the standards as well.

Arteta has Arsenal fans dreaming of the title again after years of mediocrity so please don’t talk about standards.

Domestic cups mean nothing if you’re not fighting for the title.

Fighting for a title and in the end being trophyless 4 seasons running is acceptable is it?

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Laughable contenders. Awful squad depth, no striker and a delulu manager

 

[Amjid Javed]

On a side note to make people chuckle at least.
We bought on an attacker to replace Zinchenko and looked more solid defensively.

Arsenal could have brought gunnersaurus on they would look more defensively solid

 

[Technics 1210]

Because agendas are more important than seeing the team that you support win.

These people would hate to see Arteta win the league because that would mean getting egged in the face, but that should be a small price to pay for experiencing the joy and happiness of watching your team win.

Hang on a minute, you are the one who comes out with the relentless line - Pakistan deserve this humiliation - when Pakistan lose, and you claim to be a Pak cricket fan. Is it because your agenda is more important when it comes to Cricket?

Just pointing out the duplicity I was refering to a couple of pages ago.

 

[topspin]

It shouldn’t be exhausting when Arsenal haven’t been consistently fighting for the title for 20 years.

Having a team capable of winning the title and not getting over the line for 20+ years will surely be exhausting, but let’s not forget that Arsenal found the right formula only in 2022 after 17 years and it was Arteta who made it happen.

Wenger couldn’t fight for the title after 2008 except for one season (2015-16) and Emery wasn’t capable of raising the standards. Arteta took care of that and he deserves the support of Arsenal fans as he adds the final jigsaws to the puzzle.

You also have to remember if we don't win the title this season or next season, we'll probably end up seeing our best players leave. The one that worries me the most is Saliba because he's wanted by Real Madrid. If we can't deliver a league nor a CL trophy by next season, he'll leave I reckon.

 

[Technics 1210]

H2H doesn’t matter. You have to play 19 teams not 1. Some teams play better against certain teams.

Wait, what? H2H doesn't matter?

Here's what said on the previous page:

I know you are desperate to see Liverpool beat Arsenal in the title race but in such title races, H2H games prove pivotal.

https://ppforum.pakpassion.net/threads/arsenal-fc-2023-24-season.310924/post-12020121

So which is it? H2H do not matter or H2H games prove pivitol?

 

[Technics 1210]

BBC:

The first time on record a Premier League team has had 77 touches in the opposition box without scoring.

An unwanted record for Arsenal as they fall to defeat against West Ham.

 

[ads101]

Still think Arsenal will probably win the league or come 2nd Lowest. They just have a well rounded team and squad. Liverpool although very good feels like a team/squad past its prime, while Arsenal feels on the up.

It kind of goes to show how unfortunate Klopp is. If he’d had the budget Arteta has i think he would have won a few more leagues and cups and probably leading this league this year by a lot, He just can’t strengthen his squad in the same way on that sort of budget.

I don’t think Arteta is fantastic and certainly not Klopp or Pep. But he’s strengthened a squad moderately well with a big budget. Chelsea and Manchester United have failed to do so, so he gets credit for that. Even guys like Havertz and Raya, he’s trying to add an extra dimension to the squad.

 

[ads101]

You also have to remember if we don't win the title this season or next season, we'll probably end up seeing our best players leave. The one that worries me the most is Saliba because he's wanted by Real Madrid. If we can't deliver a league nor a CL trophy by next season, he'll leave I reckon.

Don’t see any of them leaving. Arsenal is a big enough club, pays high wages, and in a popular place to live in London. With its young age, Arsenal are likely going to be challenging for the title and in champions league football for the next few years. I don’t think Saliba would risk going to Real Madrid when he’s playing so well in a team capable of challenging.

Ramsdale is the only one I see leaving. And that’s mostly just lack of game time, I don’t think Arteta will care too much.

 

[Mamoon]

Wait, what? H2H doesn't matter?

Here's what said on the previous page:

I know you are desperate to see Liverpool beat Arsenal in the title race but in such title races, H2H games prove pivotal.

https://ppforum.pakpassion.net/threads/arsenal-fc-2023-24-season.310924/post-12020121

So which is it? H2H do not matter or H2H games prove pivitol?

Maybe if you learn to read English you wouldn’t be confused.

Read again what I said - H2H is pivotal when you are in a title race, meaning that Arsenal and Liverpool are in a title race this season and the outcomes of the two Arsenal v Liverpool games can prove to be crucial.

Arsenal and West Ham are not in a title race. They are not fighting for the same positions. Arsenal can still win the league even if they lose both games to West Ham just like City won the league in 21-22 after losing both games to Spurs.

 

[Mamoon]

You also have to remember if we don't win the title this season or next season, we'll probably end up seeing our best players leave. The one that worries me the most is Saliba because he's wanted by Real Madrid. If we can't deliver a league nor a CL trophy by next season, he'll leave I reckon.

That is fine. You can’t expect anyone to stay at the club forever. If they go Arsenal will replace them adequately because they have the pull and the money now.

Those days where Arsenal lost its best players and didn’t have the resources to replace them are long gone.

Nonetheless, I don’t think they would leave at least not the likes of Saliba, Saka, Odegaard, Rice etc. The likes of Jesus might but Arsenal should be looking at upgrading him anyway.

 

[Mamoon]

Hang on a minute, you are the one who comes out with the relentless line - Pakistan deserve this humiliation - when Pakistan lose, and you claim to be a Pak cricket fan. Is it because your agenda is more important when it comes to Cricket?

Just pointing out the duplicity I was refering to a couple of pages ago.

I don’t support the Pakistan team. I don’t have a choice.

 

[Mamoon]

Fighting for a title and in the end being trophyless 4 seasons running is acceptable is it?

Yes because I don’t care for the FA Cup and League Cup.

Top 2 finish is better than finishing 4th or 5th and winning a domestic cup.

I’m okay with finishing 2nd and not winning a trophy because finishing 2nd and fighting for the league is a bigger reflection of the quality of the team than winning a domestic cup.

United won a cup last season but they are shambles.

 

[Technics 1210]

Maybe if you learn to read English you wouldn’t be confused.

Read again what I said - H2H is pivotal when you are in a title race, meaning that Arsenal and Liverpool are in a title race this season and the outcomes of the two Arsenal v Liverpool games can prove to be crucial.

Arsenal and West Ham are not in a title race. They are not fighting for the same positions. Arsenal can still win the league even if they lose both games to West Ham just like City won the league in 21-22 after losing both games to Spurs.

So now H2H is pivotal when in a title race? What race are Arsenal in then? West Ham out of the race? I suppose if Arsenal lost the title by 6 points then the games vs West Ham would not have made a difference, right?

Your contradictory and duplicity have once again been exposed.

The truth is the easiest thing to remember Mamoon - for once post, maybe, without an agenda.

 

[Mamoon]

So with your reckoning then Pep is a poor manager because he can't buy a draw at spurs let alone a win?

If you think Arteta has it over kopp

No, all I am saying that fixating on such individual results mean absolutely nothing. I was responding to the ignoramus troll that Arsenal losing at home to West Ham or losing back to back games to West Ham means that they are terrible.

These things happen in football and always will happen.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

I don’t support the Pakistan team. I don’t have a choice.

Pakistan team must be living rent free in your head. The amount of criticism you dish out is of a die hard fan!

 

[Mamoon]

So now H2H is pivotal when in a title race? What race are Arsenal in then? West Ham out of the race? I suppose if Arsenal lost the title by 6 points then the games vs West Ham would not have made a difference, right?

Your contradictory and duplicity have once again been exposed.

The truth is the easiest thing to remember Mamoon - for once post, maybe, without an agenda.

When you are in a tight title race like Arsenal are with Liverpool, the results of the Arsenal v Liverpool matches hold a lot of significance. That is the H2H that I’m referring too.

Unless you go unbeaten, which only the Invincibles Arsenal had the ability to do so, you will lose games to random teams along the way and it is not a big deal. It happens to everyone.

If Liverpool lose the title by 2-3 points and don’t get anything out of the Emirates trip, they will look at the H2H results of their matches v Arsenal and not the fact that they dropped random points to Luton and Spurs along the way.

 

[Technics 1210]

I don’t support the Pakistan team. I don’t have a choice.

If that's what you are selling then I ain't buying.

Fact is who you support in Cricket is irrelevant, what is relevant is if Pakistan make it to the SFs because another result went their way, you shout fluke, yet when Arsenal move up the table due to other results, poor performances by other teams (Man U and Chelsea), attrition, you call it progression and hail Arteta as the next Pep.

You cannot have it both ways.

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan team must be living rent free in your head. The amount of criticism you dish out is of a die hard fan!

Because they deserve every bit of the criticism that comes their way. Pathetic and talentless bunch.

 

[Mamoon]

If that's what you are selling then I ain't buying.

Fact is who you support in Cricket is irrelevant, what is relevant is if Pakistan make it to the SFs because another result went their way, you shout fluke, yet when Arsenal move up the table due to other results, poor performances by other teams (Man U and Chelsea), attrition, you call it progression and hail Arteta as the next Pep.

You cannot have it both ways.

Your juxtaposition makes me laugh. This is so dumb OMG.

There is a world of difference between doing better in an individual tournament and taking advantage of other team’s results and showing superiority in the league format that too over multiple seasons.

Arsenal or any other might take advantage of another team in a particular FA Cup or League Cup, but if Arsenal are consistently outperforming Chelsea or United over multiple league seasons then it clearly shows that they are doing things better than them.

I have already schooled you on this but I am happy to do it again. Arsenal have not taken advantage of Chelsea and United’s demise.

Arsenal have taken advantage of the fact that they have a better manager than whatever Chelsea and United have had in the last four years which is why he has been able to build a squad while the other managers have no idea about squad building.

Arteta is the reason why Arsenal are stronger than United and Chelsea today.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Yesterday was yet another example from Arteta of poor squad management and tactics. Trossard isn't a number 8 or a midfielder yet he was picked to play their against a West ham team whose midfield collectively was better than what Arsenal put out.

This was just like Southampton last season at home, zero control in midfield getting out muscled and out thought.

Defensively Arsenal were a shambles as well, the 1st goal another comedy special from white and Zinchenko.

Also looks like Arteta doesnf trust the likes of nketitah, Nelson, ESR as his subs were slow and ponderous again.

We haven't even got to pressure end of season yet and team rotation etc. Being exposed

Zinchenko and Martinelli need to be dropped for the Fulham game

 

[Amjid Javed]

Yes because I don’t care for the FA Cup and League Cup.

Top 2 finish is better than finishing 4th or 5th and winning a domestic cup.

I’m okay with finishing 2nd and not winning a trophy because finishing 2nd and fighting for the league is a bigger reflection of the quality of the team than winning a domestic cup.

United won a cup last season but they are shambles.

Finishing 2nd ain't a trophy.

Well done for getting your excuses ready for another trophyless season.

Let's see if you write a 1,000 word apology essay when Arteta fails again.

You mock klopp for 1 title in 9 years. But your happy with a 2nd place finish

 

[Amjid Javed]

When you are in a tight title race like Arsenal are with Liverpool, the results of the Arsenal v Liverpool matches hold a lot of significance. That is the H2H that I’m referring too.

Unless you go unbeaten, which only the Invincibles Arsenal had the ability to do so, you will lose games to random teams along the way and it is not a big deal. It happens to everyone.

If Liverpool lose the title by 2-3 points and don’t get anything out of the Emirates trip, they will look at the H2H results of their matches v Arsenal and not the fact that they dropped random points to Luton and Spurs along the way.

Prime example being Arsenal failed to beat relegate Southampton home or away last season and it was bottling games like that which contributed in some part to Arsenal losing the title.

 

[Mamoon]

Prime example being Arsenal failed to beat relegate Southampton home or away last season and it was bottling games like that which contributed in some part to Arsenal losing the title.

Arsenal didn’t lose the title last season because of failing to beat Southampton. Even City dropped random points to teams like Forest.

The real difference maker in the end was Arsenal getting nothing out of the two games vs City, their direct rivals for the title.

That caused a lot of psychological damage and killed the belief of the team.

Every team drops random points over the course of the season. It is part of the game.

 

[Mamoon]

Finishing 2nd ain't a trophy.

Well done for getting your excuses ready for another trophyless season.

Let's see if you write a 1,000 word apology essay when Arteta fails again.

You mock klopp for 1 title in 9 years. But your happy with a 2nd place finish

Finishing second is better than finishing fourth or fifth and winning a domestic cup.

But this is the impact of Arteta - he has made Arsenal fans dream of the title again.

The same set of fans who celebrated fourth place like a trophy for years are now disappointed at not winning the league.

 

[topspin]

I would like to see Arteta bench Martinelli and Jesus.

Nelson should start on the left and Trossard should play as a false 9.

Arteta should never play Trossard as a central midfielder ever again. It’s not a position he thrives and the lack of physicality in our midfield will get exposed.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Finishing second is better than finishing fourth or fifth and winning a domestic cup.

But this is the impact of Arteta - he has made Arsenal fans dream of the title again.

The same set of fans who celebrated fourth place like a trophy for years are now disappointed at not winning the league.

Never had interest in celebrating anything other then titles and cups.

You can Enjoy celebrating another trophyless season and call it "progress"

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Finishing second is better than finishing fourth or fifth and winning a domestic cup.

But this is the impact of Arteta - he has made Arsenal fans dream of the title again.

The same set of fans who celebrated fourth place like a trophy for years are now disappointed at not winning the league.

You sign a quality center forward in the January market, then i reckon Arsenal have a great chance of landing the Title.

 

[IMMY69]

Awful performance last night.

I think Arteta was extremely naive.

They just held a low block and we did our usual passing in front of their defenders without any real penetration.

Teams know our little passing game. Odegaard to Saka, Saka back to Odegaard, Saka then tries to cut in or passes to the overlapping White.... Its just all so predictable.

We should have stepped back and allowed them to play a bit more and then tried to hit them on the counter.
Our front three need space, all three are at their best when they can run at or beyond their defence, using their balls skills and pace.

The only other way is to have a big strong striker who can actually get on the end of a cross and make havoc against a low block defence.

We were just to predictable and need to change the way we play during the game...Need a plan B

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes because I don’t care for the FA Cup and League Cup.

Top 2 finish is better than finishing 4th or 5th and winning a domestic cup.

I’m okay with finishing 2nd and not winning a trophy because finishing 2nd and fighting for the league is a bigger reflection of the quality of the team than winning a domestic cup.

United won a cup last season but they are shambles.

As the great Kevin Keegan once said, first is first, second is nowhere. Arteta is making a reputation of threatening to win stuff then bottling it season after season. I'm tempted to say at this point that Arsenal fans DESERVE this humiliation, but not all of them do.

You do though.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

I think too much is being read into the performance, it wasn't bad by any stretch, yes some individuals were poor but Arsenal did create chances and West Ham scored twice from the 3 they had on target

A striker that's a killer and the game yesterday ends differently, the second header was a criminal miss from Jesus, unacceptable really but we know he isn't an elite finisher, we've seen it in other games, against Spurs earlier this season he missed a chance to make it 2-0

I understand Arsenal want to wait for Osimhen but not signing a striker who is a better finisher than Jesus could end up costing them

 

[Mamoon]

As the great Kevin Keegan once said, first is first, second is nowhere. Arteta is making a reputation of threatening to win stuff then bottling it season after season. I'm tempted to say at this point that Arsenal fans DESERVE this humiliation, but not all of them do.

You do though.

At least he is threatening to win stuff. I will take that after 15+ years of misery.

You have to go back as far as 2005 to find an Arsenal team that consistently threatens to win stuff.

What humiliation? Humiliation is what Chelsea and United are going through right now or what Arsenal went through for 15 years.

 

[Mamoon]

You sign a quality center forward in the January market, then i reckon Arsenal have a great chance of landing the Title.

I don’t think signing a top striker would be a possibility in Jan, but it should definitely be the main priority in the summer and I am certain Edu and Arteta are aware of it.

Arsenal should explore the market to identify replacements for Jesus and Martinelli.

Jesus is a really good forward but just not a goal scorer and Martinelli will never be good enough to be a starter for a team that aspires to win the league.

 

[Mamoon]

Never had interest in celebrating anything other then titles and cups.

You can Enjoy celebrating another trophyless season and call it "progress"

So you were happy with Arsenal, with the way Arsenal was progressing and what the future looked like in 19/20 when Arteta won the FA Cup?

Or if you were a United fan, would you be happy with last season?

 

[Mamoon]

I would like to see Arteta bench Martinelli and Jesus.

Nelson should start on the left and Trossard should play as a false 9.

Arteta should never play Trossard as a central midfielder ever again. It’s not a position he thrives and the lack of physicality in our midfield will get exposed.

It is time to drop Martinelli and give more game time to Nelson and ESR.

I would use Havertz as a target man and play Jesus off him and rotate ESR and Trossard in the pocket.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Awful performance last night.

I think Arteta was extremely naive.

They just held a low block and we did our usual passing in front of their defenders without any real penetration.

Teams know our little passing game. Odegaard to Saka, Saka back to Odegaard, Saka then tries to cut in or passes to the overlapping White.... Its just all so predictable.

We should have stepped back and allowed them to play a bit more and then tried to hit them on the counter.
Our front three need space, all three are at their best when they can run at or beyond their defence, using their balls skills and pace.

The only other way is to have a big strong striker who can actually get on the end of a cross and make havoc against a low block defence.

We were just to predictable and need to change the way we play during the game...Need a plan B

Wow - an honest and critical Analysis for once.

Martinelli and Jesus have been very poor for a lot of games this seasons.

Also playing trossard just weakened the midfield, and West ham were just able to bully us yesterday

 

[Amjid Javed]

It is time to drop Martinelli and give more game time to Nelson and ESR.

I would use Havertz as a target man and play Jesus off him and rotate ESR and Trossard in the pocket.

Arteta doesn't trust most of his bench players. That's obvious when he continues to make usual predictable subs around 65-70 mins. If he trusted players they would be brought on earlier or even starting.

We were all told ESR was being trained in xhaka role, towards end of last season. Arteta was also asked about ESR playing wide left (where previously he got double figures in PL) and it was dismissed he would play their now. Literally ESR career is being wasted away by Arteta.

Nelson, the only reason this guy was given a new contract was its cheaper than having to get a new player in, same was done with Nketiah.

Cold hard facts are Arteta can not manage a squad effectively when it comes to rotation of players across a season. This is now Artetas squad so their are no excuses that he doesn't have depth.

Zinchenko, Martinelli and Jesus right now are nothing but passengers, but instead of freshening it up Arteta does what he always does just keeps using out of form players again and again. Same thing back end of last 2 seasons as well. Changes only done when damage is done. Its naviety at its best.

Let's see of you can be honest and critical for once or real out excuses.

 

[Amjid Javed]

So you were happy with Arsenal, with the way Arsenal was progressing and what the future looked like in 19/20 when Arteta won the FA Cup?

Or if you were a United fan, would you be happy with last season?

When we won the FA Cup I was happy. What I wasn't happy with was finishing 8th that season.

Finishing 8th twice was never acceptable, all big teams have a bad season where that can happen as a one off, but to do that twice was poor.

Have we progressed and got better in the league since then - Yes (positive))

Has Arteta brought through any new academy players since he's been here? No

Since winning the FA Cup, we haven't even looked like winning a cup trophy or european trophy. (Not acceptable)

After 4 years can we compete on all fronts? No we can't (not acceptable)

Arteta is a good coach and last season he found a way to keep us top until March. However there comes a point where plan A will stop working as teams start working you out. Players get injured or the team needs rotation.

When it comes to this time and time again their is no plan B, Arteta starts to make weird tactical decisions or is just plan niave. He doesnt learn.

Watching yesterday's game it was just groundhog day of watching repeat performances at home vs Southampton and Brighton (last season) but tactical set up, no idea how to change things up and not trusting bench to change things up.

Their simply comes a point where you say, uve done a good job. But your naivety is stubbornness is not going to take us to the next level. Sometimes you have to change things, be pragmatic / think out of the box in a few games etc.. to win ugly.

Yesterday was just a car crash you could see a mile off and his "predictable like for like subs after 65 mins was just deja vu which I'm bored off.

Arteta is supposedly ruthless, yet only player ruthless cut out in current team is ramsdale. He needs to grow a pair of balls and do the same with Zinchenko, Martinelli and Jesus.

The likes of kiwor (at LB) ESR, Nelson etc.. won't get picked from start because it means Arsenal would tactically have to change. Arteta is to stubborn to do that.

He's doing exactly what wenger did from 2010 onwards play one way and not learn to be flexible etc.. that why wenger ftom 2010 was a failure as well.

I said Arteta was giving me Raneri 2003 vibes and he's doing all the things Raneri did wrong which eventually got him the sack.

 

[MK7Z]

So I was randomly thinking earlier while driving.
Where does Zinchenko rank amongst players who have recently played left back for us.

Please try not to bring Arteta into this lol!

Tierney I think most will agree had been our best LB in recent years. If it wasn't for injury.... He's injured again now. Sigh

Tavares, Kolasinac, Xhaka even Cedric. Tomiyasu, Kiwior

I honestly think Zinchenko is worst out that bunch. Tavares was a bit of a nutter but at least he was athletic.

I know we use Zinchenko to build our attacks but I think his deficencies at LB out weigh the advantage he gives us.

Play a midfielder at LB and they'd give more to the team

I watched last night's 2nd goal and he lost his man. So was involved in both goals. SIGH

Last night Zinchenko could have covered Havertz spot and Kiwior at LB.

Anyway what do folks think?

 

[MK7Z]

When we won the FA Cup I was happy. What I wasn't happy with was finishing 8th that season.

Finishing 8th twice was never acceptable, all big teams have a bad season where that can happen as a one off, but to do that twice was poor.

Have we progressed and got better in the league since then - Yes (positive))

Has Arteta brought through any new academy players since he's been here? No

Since winning the FA Cup, we haven't even looked like winning a cup trophy or european trophy. (Not acceptable)

After 4 years can we compete on all fronts? No we can't (not acceptable)

Arteta is a good coach and last season he found a way to keep us top until March. However there comes a point where plan A will stop working as teams start working you out. Players get injured or the team needs rotation.

When it comes to this time and time again their is no plan B, Arteta starts to make weird tactical decisions or is just plan niave. He doesnt learn.

Watching yesterday's game it was just groundhog day of watching repeat performances at home vs Southampton and Brighton (last season) but tactical set up, no idea how to change things up and not trusting bench to change things up.

Their simply comes a point where you say, uve done a good job. But your naivety is stubbornness is not going to take us to the next level. Sometimes you have to change things, be pragmatic / think out of the box in a few games etc.. to win ugly.

Yesterday was just a car crash you could see a mile off and his "predictable like for like subs after 65 mins was just deja vu which I'm bored off.

Arteta is supposedly ruthless, yet only player ruthless cut out in current team is ramsdale. He needs to grow a pair of balls and do the same with Zinchenko, Martinelli and Jesus.

The likes of kiwor (at LB) ESR, Nelson etc.. won't get picked from start because it means Arsenal would tactically have to change. Arteta is to stubborn to do that.

He's doing exactly what wenger did from 2010 onwards play one way and not learn to be flexible etc.. that why wenger ftom 2010 was a failure as well.

I said Arteta was giving me Raneri 2003 vibes and he's doing all the things Raneri did wrong which eventually got him the sack.

Yeah the part of about changing tactics Arteta needs to learn fast. Xhaka mentioned in an interview recently about the difference between Mikel and Xabi Alonso.

He said Mikel never changes from a back 4. Plays a 6 and 2 8s.

This for me is something he has to change.

Teams in PL who come to the Emirates will play like this 9 times out of 10.

He needs to be able to adapt the system. Worst case scenario is you lose anyway

 

[Amjid Javed]

So I was randomly thinking earlier while driving.
Where does Zinchenko rank amongst players who have recently played left back for us.

Please try not to bring Arteta into this lol!

Tierney I think most will agree had been our best LB in recent years. If it wasn't for injury.... He's injured again now. Sigh

Tavares, Kolasinac, Xhaka even Cedric. Tomiyasu, Kiwior

I honestly think Zinchenko is worst out that bunch. Tavares was a bit of a nutter but at least he was athletic.

I know we use Zinchenko to build our attacks but I think his deficencies at LB out weigh the advantage he gives us.

Play a midfielder at LB and they'd give more to the team

I watched last night's 2nd goal and he lost his man. So was involved in both goals. SIGH

Last night Zinchenko could have covered Havertz spot and Kiwior at LB.

Anyway what do folks think?

Other then Tierney and to an extent before that monreal the LB options have been poor.

Zinchenko in terms of defending ability or lack of it is on a par with Andre Santos.

Tavares, kola were very poor as well.

Kiwor isn't trusted by Arteta and was just a weird signing last January. 1st of all we had the situation when saliba was injured and Arteta didn't want to play two left footed CBs together until damage was done last season. Yeah he's Bern tried out in a few games here in there at LB, because he's a natural defender and can't do the extra man in midfield it means Arteta won't compromise changing tactics to bring kiwor in for crychenko.

This happens with Arsenal all over the pitch, Arteta is not willing to be flexible with certain players, as he's to stubborn t change. So unless crychenko now gets injured Kiwior ain't being used at LB

 

[Mamoon]

@Amjid Javed

Arteta has a massive ego and is stubborn, but all successful managers have these traits. You need to be firm and definite.

You need to believe in what you are doing because no matter what you do, there will always be a section of the fans who will not like you or who will think that someone else can do a better job than you.

I have no reasons to question Arteta or to doubt his capabilities when I look at the work that he has done over the 4 years.

He took over a club with compromised standards, toxic culture and fragmented fan base. A club that had forgotten what it is like to enter a season with the expectation and the desire to compete for the league title.

He made Arsenal fans believe again. He raised the bar. Yes he has not taken Arsenal over the line yet but let’s not forget that it is only the second season where Arsenal have had a squad that has the capability to fight for the title.

If Arteta doesn’t win the league in 2-3 years of course he will be under pressure, but it is far too early in the journey to question him.

You are looking at the 4 year period but you need to understand that rebuilding Arsenal was not a one or two season job. It was a slow-burner and the improvement was going to be incremental because you can’t spend a billion pounds in two windows and immediately change the team.

Arteta took a team struggling to stay in the top 10 to having them compete for the title. What makes you think he won’t take a team from competing for the title to winning it?

The same people who are doubting Arteta’s ability to get Arsenal over the line were doubting his ability to have Arsenal fight for the title, so he has already proved them wrong.

As far as not giving academy players chances, who cares? If they are good enough he will give them a chance. If not, he won’t. His priority is to win and he will play the players who give him the best possible chance of winning.

This is the mindset that Arsenal needed after the Wenger era ended. It was necessary for the club to go into this direction to become competitive again.

It was important for Arsenal to become ruthless and not have loyalty towards its academy players or its players in general.

If an academy player is good enough and Arteta thinks he can help the team, he will bring him through.

ESR is a good player but he doesn’t have the profile that Arteta is looking for. He doesn’t fit into his plans and on top of that, he has fitness issues.

ESR is a smart player unlike Martinelli who has nothing between his ears, but he is physically limited. He doesn’t have the pace to play on the wings and doesn’t fit-in as a midfielder either.

Should he get more appearances as a sub? Perhaps yes, but Arteta watches him in training every day and there must be a reason why he doesn’t trust him or hasn’t trusted him at this point.

Arsenal is very, very close to winning the league. The rebuild is almost complete and I’m looking forward to the next summer window to see what the club does in terms of reshaping the squad for next season.

 

[Mamoon]

Other then Tierney and to an extent before that monreal the LB options have been poor.

Zinchenko in terms of defending ability or lack of it is on a par with Andre Santos.

Tavares, kola were very poor as well.

Kiwor isn't trusted by Arteta and was just a weird signing last January. 1st of all we had the situation when saliba was injured and Arteta didn't want to play two left footed CBs together until damage was done last season. Yeah he's Bern tried out in a few games here in there at LB, because he's a natural defender and can't do the extra man in midfield it means Arteta won't compromise changing tactics to bring kiwor in for crychenko.

This happens with Arsenal all over the pitch, Arteta is not willing to be flexible with certain players, as he's to stubborn t change. So unless crychenko now gets injured Kiwior ain't being used at LB

Kiwior is Gabriel’s backup. If Gabriel is unavailable he will play. He might leave the club in the summer because he is good enough to start for a team at a lower level than Arsenal and if he wants to leave that is fine, Arsenal is not a charity club to give token appearances to unhappy players that don’t belong in the best XI.

You can’t make every player happy and if he leaves, Arsenal will bring another backup.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Kiwior is Gabriel’s backup. If Gabriel is unavailable he will play. He might leave the club in the summer because he is good enough to start for a team at a lower level than Arsenal and if he wants to leave that is fine, Arsenal is not a charity club to give token appearances to unhappy players that don’t belong in the best XI.

You can’t make every player happy and if he leaves, Arsenal will bring another backup.

No one is saying giving token games out, but when Arteta is flogging Zinchenko, Martinelli, Jesus like dead horse and they ain't performing others need to come in. Yet Arteta isn't being ruthless in that aspect. No player in starting 11 should be safe if they aren't performing.

 

[Amjid Javed]

@Amjid Javed

Arteta has a massive ego and is stubborn, but all successful managers have these traits. You need to be firm and definite.

You need to believe in what you are doing because no matter what you do, there will always be a section of the fans who will not like you or who will think that someone else can do a better job than you.

I have no reasons to question Arteta or to doubt his capabilities when I look at the work that he has done over the 4 years.

He took over a club with compromised standards, toxic culture and fragmented fan base. A club that had forgotten what it is like to enter a season with the expectation and the desire to compete for the league title.

He made Arsenal fans believe again. He raised the bar. Yes he has not taken Arsenal over the line yet but let’s not forget that it is only the second season where Arsenal have had a squad that has the capability to fight for the title.

If Arteta doesn’t win the league in 2-3 years of course he will be under pressure, but it is far too early in the journey to question him.

You are looking at the 4 year period but you need to understand that rebuilding Arsenal was not a one or two season job. It was a slow-burner and the improvement was going to be incremental because you can’t spend a billion pounds in two windows and immediately change the team.

Arteta took a team struggling to stay in the top 10 to having them compete for the title. What makes you think he won’t take a team from competing for the title to winning it?

The same people who are doubting Arteta’s ability to get Arsenal over the line were doubting his ability to have Arsenal fight for the title, so he has already proved them wrong.

As far as not giving academy players chances, who cares? If they are good enough he will give them a chance. If not, he won’t. His priority is to win and he will play the players who give him the best possible chance of winning.

This is the mindset that Arsenal needed after the Wenger era ended. It was necessary for the club to go into this direction to become competitive again.

It was important for Arsenal to become ruthless and not have loyalty towards its academy players or its players in general.

If an academy player is good enough and Arteta thinks he can help the team, he will bring him through.

ESR is a good player but he doesn’t have the profile that Arteta is looking for. He doesn’t fit into his plans and on top of that, he has fitness issues.

ESR is a smart player unlike Martinelli who has nothing between his ears, but he is physically limited. He doesn’t have the pace to play on the wings and doesn’t fit-in as a midfielder either.

Should he get more appearances as a sub? Perhaps yes, but Arteta watches him in training every day and there must be a reason why he doesn’t trust him or hasn’t trusted him at this point.

Arsenal is very, very close to winning the league. The rebuild is almost complete and I’m looking forward to the next summer window to see what the club does in terms of reshaping the squad for next season.

So my point on ESR holds substance, he's being wasted at Arsenal as Arteta doesn't trust him. Which goes back to a point ive made previously why keep him in the summer. All the stories have cond out that Arteta wanted to keep ESR, but clearly isn't going to utlize him it's poor management, same goes for riess Nelson as well. If you don't trust players, let them go.

The reason he didn't let either go is because in case of ESR being let go, if incoming players as replacements were bad the fans would get on his back quicker.

I said in summer ESR should have left (reluctant sale) he should have gone to villa, play regular football under a manager in Emery who was more than willing to give him chances before.

You can talk about Artetas ego and arrogance, facts are he's achieved nothing in terms of trophies to be such a way. He needs to learn to be humble, learn that its about getting things over the line and not we are only winning with Plan A and that's it. Being a one trick pony you eventually get caught out.

Look at Pep last season even he changes things up in Feb to get city firing again, Arteta needs to do what's best for team rather then his ego. As it will be his downfall again this season.

Changing the teams to be more controlled is understandable when you want to last the distance in the race, but when your team isn't not clinical enough and your reducing your teams creativity your creating more problems then solutions. If Arsenal lose title again this season it will be due to Arteta and his arrogance and ego.

 

[Mamoon]

So my point on ESR holds substance, he's being wasted at Arsenal as Arteta doesn't trust him. Which goes back to a point ive made previously why keep him in the summer. All the stories have cond out that Arteta wanted to keep ESR, but clearly isn't going to utlize him it's poor management, same goes for riess Nelson as well. If you don't trust players, let them go.

The reason he didn't let either go is because in case of ESR being let go, if incoming players as replacements were bad the fans would get on his back quicker.

I said in summer ESR should have left (reluctant sale) he should have gone to villa, play regular football under a manager in Emery who was more than willing to give him chances before.

You can talk about Artetas ego and arrogance, facts are he's achieved nothing in terms of trophies to be such a way. He needs to learn to be humble, learn that its about getting things over the line and not we are only winning with Plan A and that's it. Being a one trick pony you eventually get caught out.

Look at Pep last season even he changes things up in Feb to get city firing again, Arteta needs to do what's best for team rather then his ego. As it will be his downfall again this season.

Changing the teams to be more controlled is understandable when you want to last the distance in the race, but when your team isn't not clinical enough and your reducing your teams creativity your creating more problems then solutions. If Arsenal lose title again this season it will be due to Arteta and his arrogance and ego.

If ESR has no ambition and doesn’t force a move, it is his problem. If his career is wasted it will be his responsibility.

His career is not Arteta’s priority. If he doesn’t fit into his plans so be it, but Arteta will not actively try to sell him unless Arsenal are short on funds.

He might not be using him now but he might need him in the future so it is always great to have such players at your disposal.

If the player himself lacks ambition and is okay with having his career stalled, so be it.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Arsenal now down to 4th, after being top at xmas. The Fulham away game now has even more pressure

 

[Rana]

Really frustrating performances by Arsenal lately

Mainly because we are over relying on wingers to create an impact with no proper middle man who carries a threat.

Arsenal really must target a proper, established CF. Bayern Munich wasted no time or money to get the man they needed (Harry Kane). That’s the transfer mentality you need if you want to win the league rather than just compete

 

[Amjid Javed]

HT 1-1 - Fulham dominating game after going behind.

Can't afford to drop more points.

Certain fans where over hyping Arsenal's away form this season

 

[Amjid Javed]

Fulham take deserved lead 2-1

According to certain experts Arsenal had improved defensively this season

 

[Amjid Javed]

Spurs currently 1 point behind Arsenal

Could be top at Xmas to bottling before end of year

 

[MenInG]

Spurs currently 1 point behind Arsenal

Could be top at Xmas to bottling before end of year

Lots of game to go. Let's not panic.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Lots of game to go. Let's not panic.

Arsenal lose they ain't winning the title.

The FA Cup game is make or break vs liverpool.

Arsenal are not winning the PL or the CL.

 

[MenInG]

Arsenal lose they ain't winning the title.

The FA Cup game is make or break vs liverpool.

Arsenal are not winning the PL or the CL.

Defeatist attitude.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Today's performance was terrible

At least against West Ham I thought they largely played well and created some decent chances but today they were very flat and even after going 2-1 down there was a serious lack of urgency

Think Arteta trading being solid and the attack being less potent hasn't quite worked, think he needs to tweak it and go like the first half of last season

 

[MK7Z]

Pathetic from the players and the manager.

Nothing much else to say.

Subs were pathetic when they came on, change of shape was pathetic.

Its just to slow. Anyways easier to get over Arsenal bottling it this time of the year than May lol.

If it continues like this I maintain that there will be questions on Arteta.

I said a few weeks ago as long as the trajectory is on the way up I am on board with that. But I'm afraid we have regressed this season and the last few games have been on the cards.

 

[IMMY69]

I had a real nostalgic feeling during this game... so much of the last few years of Wenger's time....pathetic defensively, no penetration up front, misplaced passes and getting bullied off the ball....

Only positive I can see is that the window will be open soon and we need reinforcements...

 

[Saj]

Too many Arsenal players not up to the fight today.

Far too many of them bullied by Fulham and most lost their battle against their opponent.

Very poor performance.

 

[topspin]

Lots of game to go. Let's not panic.

Arsenal have a much tougher run in the second half of the season. If we're only getting 40 points out of 20 games, what hope is there of us managing 85 points, let alone 90, when we have to go away to:

- City
- Man Utd
- Brighton
- Spurs
- West Ham

Last season, Arsenal managed to get 50 points at the halfway stage, after 19 games. This Arsenal team has played one more game with 10 less points.

We need to be realistic, we're not winning the title.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Defeatist attitude.

I've said all along this manager ain't good enough, reality is now showing through

 

[topspin]

Arsenal won't win the title. If they can't win the UCL this season then Arteta needs to be given the sack. He's had 4 years with over £700m spent. It's not good enough.

 

[topspin]

We never looked like scoring.

We've been riding our luck throughout the season. A key example being the 2 x deflected goals which won us two games.

When I saw the team sheet, I didn't have much hope when you look at that midfield. There was not a single decent creative midfielder in that team.

Jorgino is finished as a PL footballer. He was never blessed with pace so at his age. I would honestly rather play Elneny and get rid of Jorgino in January.

As @Amjid Javed has mentioned before, £100m wasted on 2 x shocking midfielders, in Havertz and Vieira. I had a glimmer of hope for the latter and was hoping he would improve but he's been poor.

Everyone is talking about getting a number 9 and a right winger. Well the truth is we need to priortise our midfield because the only reliable midfielder we've had so far this season is Rice.

Odegaard wouldn't have done anything because he always struggles in these tough away trips against the more physical sides.

Horrible week for Arsenal but it was coming. The football hasn't been fluent this season and we've been riding our luck.

I wouldn't be surprised if it starts to fall apart hereon in for Arteta.

As I said in the beginning of November, Arsenal have rode their luck on a number of occasions in the league. I guess it was all just a matter of time.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Arsenal have a much tougher run in the second half of the season. If we're only getting 40 points out of 20 games, what hope is there of us managing 85 points, let alone 90, when we have to go away to:

- City
- Man Utd
- Brighton
- Spurs
- West Ham

Last season, Arsenal managed to get 50 points at the halfway stage, after 19 games. This Arsenal team has played one more game with 10 less points.

We need to be realistic, we're not winning the title.

I said at start of season that Arsenal had toughest end to season. I've repeated gone on and on about the last 9 games and the tough away games.

Arsenal couldn't afford to stutter and they have done so all this month.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Too many Arsenal players not up to the fight today.

Far too many of them bullied by Fulham and most lost their battle against their opponent.

Very poor performance.

Weak mentality in dressing room, no leaders. A manager who just goes through the motions.

Current poor December is no shock.