Arsenal FC | 2023/24 Season

[Firebat]

Great cameo from Vieira, the most confident and impactful he's ever been in an Arsenal shirt. Probably got his eye on Havertz's spot. For a big game like the United one coming next, best to bring Gabriel back in to make our normal back 4 from last season, and have a more defensive setup with Rice and Partey together sitting in midfield.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Great cameo from Vieira, the most confident and impactful he's ever been in an Arsenal shirt. Probably got his eye on Havertz's spot. For a big game like the United one coming next, best to bring Gabriel back in to make our normal back 4 from last season, and have a more defensive setup with Rice and Partey together sitting in midfield.

Vieira finally did turn up, fair play to Eddie as well.

The team has however gone from being fluid down the wings zinny-xhaka-martinelli and white-saka to looking toothless down the wings.

Also looks like saka and Martinelli are now being asked to replicate what grealish does in keeping the ball instead of getting into the box.

Team is being over coached and change to accommodate a proven PL flop.

I said this before this has Claudia Raneri at Chelsea tinkerman vibes all over, once City are in full gear while Arsenal are stumbling they will be eating dust.

 

[Firebat]

This is my analysis:

This "new system" is really not that new. Since Zinchenko came in, we have always played with 3 centre-backs / proper defenders (Gabriel Saliba White), and a midfielder at full-back who inverts into midfield (Zinchenko). This allows us to play with a second 8 who still has defensive capabilities (Xhaka), instead of two 6's in a pivot, to offer more attacking threat. This worked very well obviously, it gave us our best points total in 20 years.

What's different now? The basic idea is the same, but the sides have been reversed. Now, we have Partey inverting on the right, while the 3 defenders have shifted over one to the left. Since Timber, Tomiyasu, Kiwior are more comfortable in the left-back space than Gabriel, they've been there instead of him. Why this shift? It's not to accommodate Havertz (which seems to be popular belief), but to accommodate Declan Rice. More specifically, to get both Rice AND Partey in the same team, but without having to take out that 2nd attacking 8.

Rice and Partey are both 6's, but one of them is far superior defensively and athletically (Rice), while the other is tidier in possession, got a better passing range and can actually receive the ball back-to-goal and turn under pressure to play a forward pass (Partey). That last attribute is crucial, and Rice doesn't have it yet. Arteta wants all those qualities in the side, but neither are good enough at attacking to play the Xhaka role. Thus, the solution is to have Partey doing a Zinchenko from the right side, put Rice in the normal 6 and retain the 2nd attacking 8.

The fact that Havertz is the one to have inherited Xhaka's place is incidental. Havertz theoretically has a similar blend of defensive and offensive capabilities that Xhaka had to play that role. He's a tall, athletic attacker who's covering the most distance each game. But his attacking output has proven to be poor, Vieira came on and showed him levels.

In games like this when we have overwhelming possession, I'd rather a better attacker like ESR or Vieira in there over Havertz. And in big games, like the one next week, I'd rather both Rice and Partey as a traditional midfield 2, and a normal back 4 behind them, for more defensive stability. Then you can make attacking subs if you need a goal.

 

[Amjid Javed]

September

2: Manchester United (h)

16: Everton (a)

23: Tottenham (h)

30: Bournemouth (a)

Arteta needs to stop messing around with a system that doesn't work. Can't afford sub par performance in next 4 games, espcially as I mentioned before Man city will turn up to the Emirates match day 8, with either 7 wins (or 6 wins 1 draw) from their 1st 7 games.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Arsenal - PL goals conceded

22/23 - 43 goals
21/22 - 48 goals
20/21 - 39 goals
19/20 - 48 goals

Huge improvement needed this season, need to be conceding less than 35 goals in entire season if you want to win a title. Seasons already started in poor defensive fashion.

 

[topspin]

I’m deeply concerned about Arsenal this season and it’s because of Arteta.

I’ve stood by him for years however it’s become apparent that he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

I knew the signing of Havertz was a) another Chelsea scam b) worst transfer business in this window.

The performances I’ve seen from a £65m + £300k per week player is beyond unacceptable.

I also worry about Arteta because of how huge ego. He’ll continue to play him and experiment Partey at RB because of stubbornness.

Havertz will go down as Arsenal’s Misbah ul Haq, who was a disgraceful insaan.

I don’t think we’ll finish top 2 and go far in the UCL if Havertz continues to play and also if we continue to play Partey at RB.

@Amjid Javed - I remember when you once said Havertz is at Fabio Vieira’s level when you were having this debate with Mamoon. I must admit I thought the same however it’s safe to say the Portuguese is superior. I rather have him, Reiss Nelson or ESR starting ahead of Havertz.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I’m deeply concerned about Arsenal this season and it’s because of Arteta.

I’ve stood by him for years however it’s become apparent that he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

I knew the signing of Havertz was a) another Chelsea scam b) worst transfer business in this window.

The performances I’ve seen from a £65m + £300k per week player is beyond unacceptable.

I also worry about Arteta because of how huge ego. He’ll continue to play him and experiment Partey at RB because of stubbornness.

Havertz will go down as Arsenal’s Misbah ul Haq, who was a disgraceful insaan.

I don’t think we’ll finish top 2 and go far in the UCL if Havertz continues to play and also if we continue to play Partey at RB.

@Amjid Javed - I remember when you once said Havertz is at Fabio Vieira’s level when you were having this debate with Mamoon. I must admit I thought the same however it’s safe to say the Portuguese is superior. I rather have him, Reiss Nelson or ESR starting ahead of Havertz.

Arsenal's strengths last season

Gabriel and saliba partnership

White and saka combination on right hand side

A balanced midfield

Arteta has destroyed all 3 of those in 1st 3 games, an extra "midfielder" is there of offer more control and creativity - yet the team looks like its lacking ideas in final 3rd.

Arteta has managed the club like its a computer game. Make loads of weird tactical decisions every season and when there is failure there is zero accountability. If there was, he wouldn't be trying stupid things during season. Why wasn't this done in pre-season?

Arteta full well knows even if he ends season trophyless the board don't have guts to sack him. So he will just keep doing these weird things.

Everyone knows havertz is a proven PL flop, but as is the trend for fraudeta fan boys then will try and spin anything into a "positive"

Vieira had a gud cameo, doesn't mean he's ready to start games. Is he better then havertz? You could give gunnersaurus a game and he would look better then havetz it's not that hard.

Looks like ESR will be leaving, all these false noise from fraudeta he wants to keep ESR, but then zero game time which means when he does play he will be under cooked.

Arteta hasn't brought a single Academy player into the new as new option and now they are established.

Saka, ESR, Nelson, Eddie etc.. were all given time under previous managers as well. We have good Academy players and they aren't even likely to get a look in. Artetas so called "talent ID is overated" and his tactics are nothing more then copying "pep" but with players who aren't good enough to do those roles.

We ain't finishing Top 2 agreed. Any more mess ups in next 4 games and by Time City arrive on match day 8 the "title race" for Arsenal will be over before they even got into it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Arteta wants to be Pep, thinking he can shift players to different positions, play a system like City.

Not starting Eddie, the best possible choice for goalscorer was very strange.

Arsenal spent so much on Haavertz and Rice but bought no striker?

3 games in, 3 average performances, 6 points is a bonus.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Arteta wants to be Pep, thinking he can shift players to different positions, play a system like City.

Not starting Eddie, the best possible choice for goalscorer was very strange.

Arsenal spent so much on Haavertz and Rice but bought no striker?

3 games in, 3 average performances, 6 points is a bonus.

Arteta will just keep copying Pep and will keep bottling it at end of each season. Board aren't going to sack him, as they have zero ambition or accountability at the club

 

[WicketLord]

Arsenal could sell midfielder Emile Smith Rowe this week after an approach from Chelsea.

According to the Times, the north London club are willing to listen to offers for the Hale End academy graduate.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Arsenal could sell midfielder Emile Smith Rowe this week after an approach from Chelsea.

According to the Times, the north London club are willing to listen to offers for the Hale End academy graduate.

So basically Arteta is giving Chelsea one of our best young players and we've taken vertz from Chelsea.

The sooner this fraud is sacked the better.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1696603286680248713

 

[Amjid Javed]

Arsenal have had a consistent issue of dropping point in consecutive games all way through Fraudetas management reign, let's see if that's addressed or whether usual stubborn and incompetence continues until damage is done.

 

[Amjid Javed]

This line up Arsenal need vs united

 

[Iqbal'sh]

Arteta will just keep copying Pep and will keep bottling it at end of each season. Board aren't going to sack him, as they have zero ambition or accountability at the club

LOL, you were the joker that continually posted that Trossard should be starting over Nketiah.
Now you respond with ‘Arteta is copying Pep’ when a poster commented on Nketiah not starting.

No trophies will be handed out for how a team performs in the first weeks of the season however negativity is endemic amongst the wrist-slitting crew. Nothing new.

 

[Amjid Javed]

LOL, you were the joker that continually posted that Trossard should be starting over Nketiah.
Now you respond with ‘Arteta is copying Pep’ when a poster commented on Nketiah not starting.

No trophies will be handed out for how a team performs in the first weeks of the season however negativity is endemic amongst the wrist-slitting crew. Nothing new.

Zero trophies were won in last 3 seasons, pure facts. Don't let reality slap you in the face.

I'm fully aware you don't win a league title with how you start the season, at same time a poor start and Arsenal may not even be in title race.

Facts are Arsenal have bottled a europa league semi final, top 4 race and a title race under Arteta. Nothing to do with wrist slitting, just facts.

I let you, firebat, mamoon and rest of fraudeta fan boys roll out another set of excuses when failure happens.

Arsenal have the squad to compete, they don't have the mentality to get over the line, nor do they have a manager capable of handling end of season pressure.

"But I'm being negative for stating the truth about last 3 season"

I'd rather be honest then delude like you thinking your being positive

 

[Firebat]

So it turns out I'm a fraudteta fan boy, an Edu fan boy and an Odegaard fan boy, who knew because I certainly didn't

Anything other fanboy group I'm a part of which I haven't realised? Memory is a bit hazy I guess

 

[James]

September

2: Manchester United (h)

16: Everton (a)

23: Tottenham (h)

30: Bournemouth (a)

Arteta needs to stop messing around with a system that doesn't work. Can't afford sub par performance in next 4 games, espcially as I mentioned before Man city will turn up to the Emirates match day 8, with either 7 wins (or 6 wins 1 draw) from their 1st 7 games.

you’ll win all of those games. All teams a shambles apart from Tottenham but you have a good record against them.

 

[Amjid Javed]

you’ll win all of those games. All teams a shambles apart from Tottenham but you have a good record against them.

Are away record vs everton is atrocious recently 3 defeats in a row and 1 draw and 4 defeats in last 5.

On pretty much all 5 of those occasions evertons form at the time has been abysmal and still Arsenal have failed to get anything worth while. Arsenal seem to save their worst team performance of each season for goodison Park.

I said same thing last season, when ither people were saying everton should be an easy win. So won't be any easier this season

 

[Saj]

Surprised that Arsenal are willing to sell Smith-Rowe.

I've always been impressed with him when he's been given a chance.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Surprised that Arsenal are willing to sell Smith-Rowe.

I've always been impressed with him when he's been given a chance.

This is what happens when you have a clueless manager with poor talent ID. Not a single "new" Academy player has been brought in or establish themselves under Arteta.

The likes of saka, ESR, were 1st blooded by Emery.

The fact the club has wasted 65M on a proven PL flop, when in comparison ESR when he has stayed fit scored 10+ goals in PL season. Something the German fraud has failed to do.

Alot of fans are starting to get very angry now with such decisions. Arteta so call good will from the fan base will end if ESR is sold and the current mess of a formation current team is playing.

 

[Amjid Javed]

LOL, you were the joker that continually posted that Trossard should be starting over Nketiah.
Now you respond with ‘Arteta is copying Pep’ when a poster commented on Nketiah not starting.

No trophies will be handed out for how a team performs in the first weeks of the season however negativity is endemic amongst the wrist-slitting crew. Nothing new.

I asked for trossard over Nketiah as last season when Eddie came into side he wasn't up to the job when Jesus was injured, apart from the brighton and United games he pretty contributed nothing else in that spell in team. when trossard started he got 1 goal. 9 assists and was player of month in march. So again lol all you want showd you clearly don't watch any football.

Yes trossard had a bad 45 mins vs Fulham this season, yet your silly clueless comment seems to be based on that

Keep being "positive" and clueles like you are .

 

[Amjid Javed]

Brentford vs Arsenal in the league Cup. Not an easy tie, let's see how the "squad rotation goes" or if its another cup embarrassment under fraudeta

 

[Amjid Javed]

Lens, Sevilla, Arsenal and PSV

Decent group for Arsenal

Let's see if Arsenal actually improve in Europe.

 

[Amjid Javed]

@Geordie Ahmed nice group for Newcastle

 

[Firebat]

A real Europa League group for Arsenal, feels very familiar lol. Considering we've been topping the Europa League groups with our second teams for the past few years, I'm sure we can make it out of this one. As usual, the only team that can stop Arsenal here is Arsenal.

 

[Amjid Javed]

A real Europa League group for Arsenal, feels very familiar lol. Considering we've been topping the Europa League groups with our second teams for the past few years, I'm sure we can make it out of this one. As usual, the only team that can stop Arsenal here is Arsenal.

Seville are guaranteed to finish 3rd as they will make sure they can drop down into the europa league.

We have played PSV last season in europa so we know that's a tricky game.

Last time we play lens in CL was an embarrassing affair as Arsenal didn't make it out of the group. The ill fated playing home games at Wembley in the late 90s.

Should be no excuse not to get out of the group.

 

[Rana]

Halwa champions league group

Let’s top it and avoid Bayern, Madrid or Barca next round

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Mikel Arteta responded to criticism of Arsenal's formation changes this season by comparing his tinkering to beating the traffic on his daily commute.

The Gunners have seven points from their first three Premier League games.

Arsenal finished as runners-up to Manchester City last season after they fell away at the end of the season.

"Every morning I come from my house to Colney. One day I have a flat tyre, what do I do? So every game is a different story," Arteta said.

BBC

 

[Firebat]

Like it or not, football at the highest level in 2023 is far more complex than most of us will understand. That's why I debate these things with humility.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Mikel Arteta responded to criticism of Arsenal's formation changes this season by comparing his tinkering to beating the traffic on his daily commute.

The Gunners have seven points from their first three Premier League games.

Arsenal finished as runners-up to Manchester City last season after they fell away at the end of the season.

"Every morning I come from my house to Colney. One day I have a flat tyre, what do I do? So every game is a different story," Arteta said.

BBC

Arteta waffling rubbish as usual, he's trying to play 4D chess when the clown has been schooled playing chequers.

He's stupid clueless tinkering in previous seasons at pressure end of season is why club is trophyless for last 3 seasons.

 

[Technics 1210]

@Amjid Javed

Mikel Arteta tells Arsenal fans to lay off Kai Havertz and show him love

'We have some very beautiful examples with players that we have given a lot of support, they have felt that love and they just exploded'

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Amjid Javed]

@Amjid Javed

Mikel Arteta tells Arsenal fans to lay off Kai Havertz and show him love

'We have some very beautiful examples with players that we have given a lot of support, they have felt that love and they just exploded'

www.telegraph.co.uk

Fraudeta wants the fan base to shoe love to a proven PL flop and ex Chelsea trash . No thanks.

Man city are out of the traps, I already said that come match day 8 at Emirates - city will be won 7 from 7 or at worst 6 from 7.

Arsenal have to play united tomorrow, the Everton (no wins in last 5 visits to goodison) and an in form spurs.

So can't even afford to drop any more early season points.

Fraudeta will be exposed this season over his arrogance, stubbornness and tactical stupidity under pressure.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Havertz in from xhaka
Timber in for holding / Tierney
Raya for Turner

So Rice is only addition to so called over depth of squad

In January - Tomiyasu (Asia cup), Partey and elneny (Afcons) will be gone in January

So squad is again short defensively

Saliba, Gabriel, kiwor, Zinchenko, Tomiyasu, White are the defensive options left now, Tomiyasu and Zinchenko are injury liabilities

Let's see how many cups are thrown away this season

 

[Amjid Javed]

Conflicting stories coming out saying Partey may have serious injury and be out for a while, if that's true Arsenal are in serious trouble.

 

[Amjid Javed]

So Partey was injured while transfer window was still open yet another disaster-class in not getting cover in. Injury could be 3-4 months

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Arsenal's midfield needs to hold up and hope for Havertz to do something, ideally provide a key contribution.

Suggestions Party has other issues hanging over him other than an injury and might explain the lowball offers. He's have gone for £40m

 

[MenInG]

Team news - Nketaih starts for Gunners; Hojlund on bench for Man United

Arsenal v Manchester United (16:30 BST)

Arsenal make three changes from the side who drew 2-2 with Fulham - with Thomas Partey missing out through injury.

Gabriel, Oleksandr Zinchenko and striker Eddie Nketiah replace Jakub Kiwior, Partey and Leandro Trossard.

Takehiro Tomiyasu is on the bench after recovering from suspension.

Arsenal: Ramsdale, Gabriel, White, Saliba, Zinchenko, Odegaard, Rice, Havertz, Saka, Nketiah, Martinelli.

Subs: Tomiyasu, Jesus, Smith Rowe, Kiwior, Jorginho, Vieira, Raya, Nelson, Trossard.

Manchester United make one enforced change from the side who beat Nottingham Forest 3-2 - Victor Lindelof replaces the injured Raphael Varane.

Potential debutants Rasmus Hojlund, Altay Bayindir and Sergio Reguilon are all on the bench - as is Jonny Evans.

Manchester United: Onana, Wan-Bissaka, Lindelof, Martinez, Dalot, Casemiro, Eriksen, Antony, Bruno Fernandes, Rashford, Martial.

Subs: Bayindir, Maguire, Hojlund, Reguilon, Garnacho, Pellistri, Evans, Gore, Hannibal.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Team news - Nketaih starts for Gunners; Hojlund on bench for Man United

Arsenal v Manchester United (16:30 BST)

Arsenal make three changes from the side who drew 2-2 with Fulham - with Thomas Partey missing out through injury.

Gabriel, Oleksandr Zinchenko and striker Eddie Nketiah replace Jakub Kiwior, Partey and Leandro Trossard.

Takehiro Tomiyasu is on the bench after recovering from suspension.

Arsenal: Ramsdale, Gabriel, White, Saliba, Zinchenko, Odegaard, Rice, Havertz, Saka, Nketiah, Martinelli.

Subs: Tomiyasu, Jesus, Smith Rowe, Kiwior, Jorginho, Vieira, Raya, Nelson, Trossard.

Manchester United make one enforced change from the side who beat Nottingham Forest 3-2 - Victor Lindelof replaces the injured Raphael Varane.

Potential debutants Rasmus Hojlund, Altay Bayindir and Sergio Reguilon are all on the bench - as is Jonny Evans.

Manchester United: Onana, Wan-Bissaka, Lindelof, Martinez, Dalot, Casemiro, Eriksen, Antony, Bruno Fernandes, Rashford, Martial.

Subs: Bayindir, Maguire, Hojlund, Reguilon, Garnacho, Pellistri, Evans, Gore, Hannibal.

Pretty attacking line up from united, seems like they think they can dominate midfield and create chances.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Congrats on winning the league,, Garnacho.

A result that matched the performance

 

[Rana]

What a win!

Phenomenal strike by Rice to break the deadlock! Class player

 

[Amjid Javed]

Huge 3 points, but performances need to improve massively. Got out of jail with those 2 late goals.

 

[Rana]

This Hojlund guy looks a serious player

How are Norway producing these beasts up front all of a sudden?

 

[Rana]

Huge 3 points, but performances need to improve massively. Got out of jail with those 2 late goals.

That Garnacho goal off-side was millimetres lucky

 

[IMMY69]

Another great result even though we didn't play very well.

Remember it's all about staying in touch with the top and how you finish the season that matters.

 

[Firebat]

God I love football.

 

[Amjid Javed]

That Garnacho goal off-side was millimetres lucky

Really didn't get why saliba was trying to play offside on half way line . Huge improvement needed defensively. 4 cleansheets in 27 home games, it's really poor.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Another great result even though we didn't play very well.

Remember it's all about staying in touch with the top and how you finish the season that matters.

With way City have started, they ain't dropping many points in 1st 7 games, so yeah we can't drop any points

 

[Saj]

Good sides win even when they aren't at their best.

Arsenal were poor for large parts of the match, but you cannot doubt their commitment and effort till the final whistle.

 

[Rana]

Really didn't get why saliba was trying to play offside on half way line . Huge improvement needed defensively. 4 cleansheets in 27 home games, it's really poor.

It was Gabriel I think. He was lunging forward to catch up because he knew they were in big trouble

 

[Amjid Javed]

Rice was man of match, deserved his goals and ran the midfield. He deserved to get the winner.

Everton away next after international break, a place where we have been poor in last 5 visits.

 

[Amjid Javed]

It was Gabriel I think. He was lunging forward to catch up because he knew they were in big trouble

Its just sheer stupidity espcially when it was 1-1. Defensively at home it's just a Continuation of last season.

 

[MenInG]

Arsenal captain Martin Odegaard speaking to Sky Sports after the win over Manchester United: "I love to play at home with the fans and the atmosphere is unbelievable. I am thrilled to come behind and very, very happy.

"It's the best feeling in the world. This is what we play for. To give them something back and how they support us and it is amazing to give them this back."

On the drama-filled late stages: "It was mad. I don't know what happened but Gabi [Jesus] did so well in the end and scored a great goal and we got the win.

"All the games are like this now and you have to be prepared to play 100 and 105 and 110 minutes. We did great and I am very pleased to win."

On the upcoming international break: "Straight to Norway now and it's going to be great to go there and see the boys as well."

 

[Amjid Javed]

Vieira and Jesus gave us impetus when they came on, we moved the ball quicker.

Always helps when the donkey who was slowing down play was taken off.

 

[Saj]

Vieira and Jesus gave us impetus when they came on, we moved the ball quicker.

Always helps when the donkey who was slowing down play was taken off.

Definitely.

It was all too slow and lacked a direct approach from midfield.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Definitely.

It was all too slow and lacked a direct approach from midfield.

Havertz doesn't have technical ability to play one touch football or move ball quickly, no conviction either. We can't afford passengers in the team.

 

[Saj]

Havertz doesn't have technical ability to play one touch football or move ball quickly, no conviction either. We can't afford passengers in the team.

Saka and Havertz were passengers throughout the match.

Martinelli tried but wasn't at his best either.

3 players in the midfield that were below par.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Saka and Havertz were passengers throughout the match.

Martinelli tried but wasn't at his best either.

3 players in the midfield that were below par.

Saka has been poor in all 4 games this season, most of those he's lacked support from Ben White behind him apart from today. Arteta will just end up running him into the ground again as he never gets taken off.

Plus lack of cover doesn't help.

On the other wing Martinelli kept getting to byline and there was no one in box for him. All this tinkering of the system is destroying the attacking play.

Havertz is huge waste of money

 

[KingKhanWC]

Saka has been poor in all 4 games this season, most of those he's lacked support from Ben White behind him apart from today. Arteta will just end up running him into the ground again as he never gets taken off.

Plus lack of cover doesn't help.

On the other wing Martinelli kept getting to byline and there was no one in box for him. All this tinkering of the system is destroying the attacking play.

Havertz is huge waste of money

Saka is still young, 21 I think. Some fans are placing too much pressure on the young lad, such as he's as good as Salah or he should be scoring 20 PL goals per season. Pep uses his youngsters wisely such as Foden, not starting him every match, building him up to now where he will start more than he doesnt. Arsenal dont have the depth of City but I do feel Saka can be utilised in a more sensible fashion. Sometimes starting is a poor tactic, imagine bringing him on with 15 mins to go against a tired defence...

Where is @Mamoon ? He was claiming Havertz is some incredible signing, wonder what his thoughts are after 4 matches?

Imo Havertz is losing even more confidence coming into this side and playing in some strange positions. Instead of spending £60 odd million on him, Arsenal should have bought an out and out striker. One who could link up with Jesus but Arteta thinks he can win the league as Pep did a couple of years ago.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Saka is still young, 21 I think. Some fans are placing too much pressure on the young lad, such as he's as good as Salah or he should be scoring 20 PL goals per season. Pep uses his youngsters wisely such as Foden, not starting him every match, building him up to now where he will start more than he doesnt. Arsenal dont have the depth of City but I do feel Saka can be utilised in a more sensible fashion. Sometimes starting is a poor tactic, imagine bringing him on with 15 mins to go against a tired defence...

Where is @Mamoon ? He was claiming Havertz is some incredible signing, wonder what his thoughts are after 4 matches?

Imo Havertz is losing even more confidence coming into this side and playing in some strange positions. Instead of spending £60 odd million on him, Arsenal should have bought an out and out striker. One who could link up with Jesus but Arteta thinks he can win the league as Pep did a couple of years ago.

For last 2 seasons saka has burnt out because Arteta just plays him 90 mins every game and no rest, it's just poor player management. Plus again no other right winger to share burden. Saka then also plays 90 mind every England game as well. It's just poor management all round of a young player

Saka isn't the best young player in world and isn't world class yet, he maybe one day. But your right haaland and foden are managed better by Pep. Its like Arteta is scared of dropping saka or taking him off early. West ham last season was a prime example of him being poor and arteta just kept him on at detriment of team.

Every player should get same treatment.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Arsenal scored twice in stoppage time to secure a dramatic victory over Manchester United at Emirates Stadium.

In a chaotic finale to a largely scrappy game, United first thought they had snatched three points only to see Alejandro Garnacho's 88th-minute finish ruled out for offside by the video assistant referee with the score 1-1.

The drama then switched to the other end in eight added minutes as Declan Rice's deflected shot gave Arsenal the lead before substitute Gabriel Jesus raced clear to wrap up the win as the stadium exploded in elation.

United had taken the lead in the 27th minute when Christian Eriksen's outstanding pass played in Marcus Rashford, who cut inside to send an unerring right-foot drive past Arsenal keeper Aaron Ramsdale.

The Gunners, who had already spurned a golden chance when the struggling Kai Havertz miskicked with the goal at his mercy, were level almost instantly when captain Martin Odegaard was given too much space and sent an emphatic finish into the bottom corner.

In an encounter that rarely hit the heights despite lots of effort, Arsenal - who had seen a penalty over-turned by the VAR after referee Anthony Taylor originally ruled Havertz had been fouled - missed a glorious late opportunity when Bukayo Saka shot straight at Andre Onana.

United saw celebrations cut short with two minutes left when substitute Garnacho raced clear to score, but the VAR ruled he was just offside - opening the door for Arsenal to produce two devastating blows.


BBC

 

[Rana]

Havertz will come good InshaAllah

 

[topspin]

Like it or not, football at the highest level in 2023 is far more complex than most of us will understand. That's why I debate these things with humility.

Next, we might as well say: “let’s accept Havertz’s mediocrity with humility”.

Any Arsenal fan who doesn’t declare war on Havertz isn’t really an Arsenal fan in my eyes.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Next, we might as well say: “let’s accept Havertz’s mediocrity with humility”.

Any Arsenal fan who doesn’t declare war on Havertz isn’t really an Arsenal fan in my eyes.

Arteta just talking nonsense and riddles and trying to be Pep, difference is Pep bins of mediocre players and is ruthless. Fraudeta doesn't have a clue.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Havertz will come good InshaAllah

more chance of Luton winning PL title, then havertz coming good

 

[IMMY69]

Arteta just talking nonsense and riddles and trying to be Pep, difference is Pep bins of mediocre players and is ruthless. Fraudeta doesn't have a clue.

Do you know what Arteta's reputation was as a player?

 

[Amjid Javed]

Do you know what Arteta's reputation was as a player?

A mediocre player that we brought in after we sold cesc and nasri.

Mediocre player, mediocre manager

We already know your stance on backing mediocrity

You've got players like ESR and trossard both getting minimal game time, which is poor. Why keep ESR if your going to just keep him sat on the bench. What sort of message does it send out when there is no merit on team selection.

Trossard was poor vs fulham and gets taken off after 45 mins. Havertz stinks the place out like a freshly dropped turd and Arteta wants fans to back such a player.

Saka is pretty much undroppable and has been poor from April onwards and start of this season. He will be burn out again come end of march.

With Partey now out for a while Arsenal are going to have to find a way to rotate the rest of midfield options in some tough PL games, a tough league Cup game and the CL.

We got out of jail yesterday after being poor for 90 mins.

Arsenal don't have the luxury of carrying passengers in team, that was exposed against Fulham and very nearly against United.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Havertz will come good InshaAllah

Maddision has gone from leicester to spurs and slotted in straight away, that's what quality players do.

All this give kai time and love nonsense is just deluded fans being fake positive.

 

[Firebat]

We are just not killers in the final third. This season we've dominated games, got the ball in dangerous areas, entered the penalty box/final third countless times, then can't make anything of it. Meanwhile the other team's first attack and first shot they score.

Saka has been poor, Martinelli slightly better but neither are elite and clinical in that final product, final action. They're always just looking dangerous. Trossard and Nketiah are slightly better at that but don't grab a game by the scruff of the neck, Havertz is useless.

Gabriel Jesus is the only game-changer we have, and his fitness and finishing is unreliable. We need to break Brentford's door down for Ivan Toney in January.

 

[Firebat]

Mikel Arteta on Arsenal's late show vs Man Utd: These moments will stick with us | I love our will to win

Mikel Arteta hailed Arsenal's "will to win" as they hit Manchester United with an exhilarating late show that will live long in his memory.

Declan Rice and Gabriel Jesus scored stoppage-time goals to take Arsenal to a famous 3-1 win over United.

In a game packed with drama, United thought they'd won it themselves in the final minutes when Alejandro Garnacho broke free to score but a close VAR offside call denied him his moment. Arsenal then sent the home fans into bedlam with goals in the 96th and 101st minutes.

"We all worked so hard and planned everything for moments like this," Arteta said.

"These moments will stick with us, with the crowd so connected to the team with the big history of these matches, it's great.

"The will, the determination of the team, that will to win and go and go and go, I'm so proud of them.

"A team needs different tools to win football matches, and the capacity to react. We did that in the first half and that set the tone and brought some calmness to the team."

Rice was scoring his first goal for the club since his club record £105m move from West Ham and his manager hailed his contribution.

He said: "A tremendous performance from Rice. As a holding midfielder, how he needs to dominate his area, to break up play. He was really dominant. And then he produced a magic moment to win us the game. You need to have that quality, that composure and he had it.

"He's a great kid. A good mixture between being extremely demanding with everybody, himself and banter and being around the boys in a humble way.

"When you see the technical ability he has and how he delivers in these moments... when he shoots from range, with both feet, and he has the timing with his runs. The position will determine how many goals he scores but he's got the ability to do that."

Mikel Arteta on Arsenal's late show vs Man Utd: These moments will stick with us | I love our will to win

Mikel Arteta said: These moments will stick with us, with the crowd so connected to the team with the big history of these matches, it’s great. The will, the determination of the team, that will to win and go and go and go, I’m so proud of them.

www.skysports.com

 

[Firebat]

Gary Neville:

"It would feel like that [more than three points]. It's brilliant for the dressing room and obviously despair for the losing team, but for Arsenal it's magnificent.

"For Declan Rice to get the goal, I think it was big. Rice is the big signing of the summer so for him to settle in will be crucial for him. He's just connected with this whole stadium if he hadn't done already.

"With the money that Arsenal's invested in the summer and the season they had last year, they will want to be in that run-in again with 10 games to go in the same position whereby they can prove to themselves that they can get to the top.

"Manchester City are an outstanding team so you can't be four points behind them even after four games. They'll punish you and they put pressure on you. Arsenal are going to have to do what they did today [Sunday] throughout as there's going to be no let-up.

"They started last season like a house on fire and they were unbelievable in that first half of the season and then they fell off at the end.

"The fact they've not been at their best and they've picked up 10 points out of 12 isn't a bad thing. The form really needs to start coming after Christmas in February and March.

"They need to be playing better than they are at the moment but I wouldn't worry about it too much at this stage that they're not fully fluid as they're bringing new players into the team in Kai Havertz and Rice.

"I wouldn't be overly worried and I'd be encouraged by the fact they've got 10 out of 12 points."

 

[Firebat]

Roy Keane:

"Last year, Arsenal proved to be the best of the rest and I think they are probably the strongest group amongst the other teams at this moment in time.

"I still think the gap to Man City is there, but this is a big win for them.

"The momentum, spirit and quality it gives them. The feel-good factor is with Arsenal.

"If they had dropped points today, I think it would have been a huge step back for them.

"However, it's chalk and cheese with the result against Fulham and they have a big spring in their step now."

 

[Amjid Javed]

We are just not killers in the final third. This season we've dominated games, got the ball in dangerous areas, entered the penalty box/final third countless times, then can't make anything of it. Meanwhile the other team's first attack and first shot they score.

Saka has been poor, Martinelli slightly better but neither are elite and clinical in that final product, final action. They're always just looking dangerous. Trossard and Nketiah are slightly better at that but don't grab a game by the scruff of the neck, Havertz is useless.

Gabriel Jesus is the only game-changer we have, and his fitness and finishing is unreliable. We need to break Brentford's door down for Ivan Toney in January.

For all the so called "dominance" what actual real chances have we created? It's all good having most of the possession and people flapping their gums about control etc.. I'm not interested in all those we had better xg and other rubbish.

Forrest game - both goals came from individual brilliance, other then that apart from a Rice shot saved by Turner what was created?

Palace game - keeper tipped over an oddegard shot, Eddie missed a sitter from 6 yards. Won game by a penalty.

Fulham - goals from a penalty and a good cross from Vieira, again otherwise what was really created.

Finally the United game in the actual 90 mins apart from the goal, we had havertz kicking fresh air and saka missing a sitter. Then we scored twice in injury time.

Most of fan base is trying to comfort itself over "we are dominating games nonsense" yet creating next to nothing.

Saka agreed has been poor since April, why? Because Arteta continues to flog saka like a dead horse, with no competition for place on right side same will happen this season. Martinelli has been pretty good but when donkey havertz and Eddie are offering zero link up play in box it makes team look toothless. Whole fluid system destroyed on both flanks and centrally to accommodate mesut ozil from wish / temu.

It's no shock as soon as havertz ain't on pitch we are more fluid. Have more of ball and control is pointless if you ain't creating chances.

Spurs, Liverpool already look more fluid then us, heck even west ham do.

Man city are in 1st gear and smashing teams for fun. City will get 90+ points which means others can't drop many points. That means experimenting during season like fraudeta is doing is plain dumb.

Yeah we do need Ivan toney and another midfielder as with parteys injury and afcons in January, we are now a Rice injury away from a jorghino, havertz, oddegard midfield

I said this was coming a while ago.. seems penny is dropping for others now

 

[Amjid Javed]

Meanwhile the other team's first attack and first shot they score.

4 clean sheets in last 27 home games, simply not a title winning defence.


This season we need to conceded last then 40 in entire season (around 35 ideally) - but that ain't happening because there is no pride or hunger to keep clean sheets, White letting rashford come inside was criminal and ramsdales dive wasn't any better)

With timbers injury, its same defence as last season minus holding and Tierney. So won't be a shock to see team keep leaking goals, also dependant on to injury liabilities in tomyassu and crychenko staying fit.

 

[IMMY69]

A mediocre player that we brought in after we sold cesc and nasri.

Mediocre player, mediocre manager

We already know your stance on backing mediocrity

You've got players like ESR and trossard both getting minimal game time, which is poor. Why keep ESR if your going to just keep him sat on the bench. What sort of message does it send out when there is no merit on team selection.

Trossard was poor vs fulham and gets taken off after 45 mins. Havertz stinks the place out like a freshly dropped turd and Arteta wants fans to back such a player.

Saka is pretty much undroppable and has been poor from April onwards and start of this season. He will be burn out again come end of march.

With Partey now out for a while Arsenal are going to have to find a way to rotate the rest of midfield options in some tough PL games, a tough league Cup game and the CL.

We got out of jail yesterday after being poor for 90 mins.

Arsenal don't have the luxury of carrying passengers in team, that was exposed against Fulham and very nearly against United.

You didn't answer my question.

 

[KingKhanWC]

 

[KingKhanWC]

Problem for Arteta is he wont drop Havertz because of the high fee.

But from the above you can see he did little to nothing, surely another player on the left side of mid would have done a lot more.

I think the physical nature of the PL is too much for him. Still young enough to put on some muscle and strength but will he be willing to work hard enough in the gym to achieve this?

 

[IMMY69]

Problem for Arteta is he wont drop Havertz because of the high fee.

But from the above you can see he did little to nothing, surely another player on the left side of mid would have done a lot more.

I think the physical nature of the PL is too much for him. Still young enough to put on some muscle and strength but will he be willing to work hard enough in the gym to achieve this?

I think once everyone is fit the best pairing will be Rice and Partey through the middle, with Rice taking the number 8 position on the left.

Arteta has done some special things as coach and you could see that with Tomiyasu. He came in as left back and was largely playing centrally and looked so comfortable doing it.
Not in a million years could I imagine Tomy playing central midfield, in that Zinchenko role.

Havitz is slow but gets into decent situations. His confidence is clearly lacking but I wont fight him off after 4 games.

 

[IMMY69]

There is a clear lack of awareness when people call out Arteta as a Pep clone or wanna be.

Those that don't realise, or simply wish to ignore the fact that he was understudy to Wenger, known for his tactical nouse and was a tough task master when captain of Arsenal.

He also lifted two fa cup trophies as captain.

He was interviewed and was almost appointed manager before the board when for Emery and Arteta went to his old friend, Pep, at City.
But maybe, just maybe, Pep himself could see Arteta's future brilliance which is why he made him his second in command?

In three years he has us playing beautiful, dominating football. Those who fail to see this are just blinded by hatred

 

[Amjid Javed]

There is a clear lack of awareness when people call out Arteta as a Pep clone or wanna be.

Those that don't realise, or simply wish to ignore the fact that he was understudy to Wenger, known for his tactical nouse and was a tough task master when captain of Arsenal.

He also lifted two fa cup trophies as captain.

He was interviewed and was almost appointed manager before the board when for Emery and Arteta went to his old friend, Pep, at City.
But maybe, just maybe, Pep himself could see Arteta's future brilliance which is why he made him his second in command?

In three years he has us playing beautiful, dominating football. Those who fail to see this are just blinded by hatred

Oh dear the pom poms are out, mediocrity cheerleading at its finest.

All of fraudetas tactics are just a copy of Pep, even stevie wonder can see that. Pep started playing a flexible 3-5-2, so Arteta has copied same thing in 1st 3 games with a so called "extra man in midfield"

Now your going on about Pep picking Arteta as his number 2. Have city fallen apart since fraudeta left? Why don't you do bhangra over the current city number 2 as city won the treble last season. Same over hype was done for all of fergies number 2s mclaren, Carlos Queiroz.

Who ever was number 2 at those clubs had no huge impact so stop capping for mediocrity.

3 years of beautiful dominant football? in last 3 season the club has finished 8th, 5th. 2nd and bottled a EL semi final, top 4 race and a title.

Oh we play dominant football, yeah so dominant that team folds like a pack of cards under pressure. So dominant that opposition score with ease against us. 4 home clean sheets in 27 PL home games.

Don't know what games you've been watching over last 3 years? Dominant

I expect such delusional and overhyped from mamoon, but seems like uve decide to take up his mantle while he is away.