Arsenal FC | 2023/24 Season

[Mamoon]

“Odegaard is not world class”

“Odegaard has weak mentality”

“Smith-Rowe is superior”

“Maddison is better”



@Amjid Javed @topspin 0% ball knowledge.

 

[Technics 1210]

They are not the same. Taking over Arsenal when they were struggling to stay in the top half of the table would have been less challenging if Pep's City did not exist. Arteta not only had to face the challenge of rebuilding Arsenal but he also had to face the challenge of overcoming Pep's Man City.

They are the same, you are just describing the status quo when Arteta took over. You can do it in 1 sentence, not need for 2 paragraphs.

 

[Amjid Javed]

They are the same, you are just describing the status quo when Arteta took over. You can do it in 1 sentence, not need for 2 paragraphs.

This is a guy that doesn't live in UK, yet he magically watched football in late 80s and 90s.

Supposedly Liverpool and United dominating those eras and Arsenal competing against them was no a big achievement.

This is modern day fans for you who think the history of football was non-existent and poor quality.

 

[Amjid Javed]

"
They are not the same. Taking over Arsenal when they were struggling to stay in the top half of the table would have been less challenging if Pep's City did not exist"


@topspin @Technics 1210 @KingKhanWC - this is latest comedy gem from Mr zero ball knowledge

Arsenal in 5 seasons before Arteta

3rd, 2nd, 5th, 6th and 5th

But this is supposedly struggling to stay in top half of the table

 

[MK7Z]

hypothetically speaking @Amjid Javed and i know football does not work on ifs and buts.

If Arsenal won all their games from now until the end of the Season and so did City which would win them the title.

Would you still consider Arsenal/Arteta bottle jobs?

 

[Technics 1210]

This is a guy that doesn't live in UK, yet he magically watched football in late 80s and 90s.

Supposedly Liverpool and United dominating those eras and Arsenal competing against them was no a big achievement.

This is modern day fans for you who think the history of football was non-existent and poor quality.

I think it is his way of desperately wanting to be accepted by born and bred Brits through exaggeration.

I stopped paying serious attention when he claimed Arteta was better than Wenger.

 

[Amjid Javed]

hypothetically speaking @Amjid Javed and i know football does not work on ifs and buts.

If Arsenal won all their games from now until the end of the Season and so did City which would win them the title.

Would you still consider Arsenal/Arteta bottle jobs?

If Arsenal took City to last game of season in that fashion, no I wudnt call it a bottle job. I would look at where Arsenal essentially fell short, which would be the December where that poor month ultimately cost them, as well as the unnecessary tinkering in villa game this month as well.

The way Arsenal won 2 games in 8 at back of last season was a bottle job.

Just like they way the did with Top 4 the year before.

In regards to Arsenal overall not getting over the line 4 seasons running europa league, top 4, title, title.

I will be looking at manager and the teams mentality as to why they aren't getting over the line. 4 seasons is a big enough sample time to question why a team keeps failing at last hurdle.

 

[Amjid Javed]

hypothetically speaking @Amjid Javed and i know football does not work on ifs and buts.

If Arsenal won all their games from now until the end of the Season and so did City which would win them the title.

Would you still consider Arsenal/Arteta bottle jobs?

Just to add in regards to missing out on titles, I look back at wengers 1st full 7 seasons at club and vs fergie and the score was wenger 3 fergie 4.

It should have been wenger 5 fergie 2.

Arsenal should have won back to back doubles in 97/98 and 98/99

Losing title away to Leeds, also the FA Cup semi final defeat where Bergkamp missed a penalty

Then 02/03 where Arsenal bottled a lead of 8 points in March.

Arsenal should have won 3 titles in a row back then.

Wenger took 3 titles, but to me he should have won 5. So I question the club any time it's fallen short.

Yet fans get offended over oh you can criticise Arteta the messiah

 

[Mamoon]

I think it is his way of desperately wanting to be accepted by born and bred Brits through exaggeration.

I stopped paying serious attention when he claimed Arteta was better than Wenger.

You never paid attention in the first place because I never said that Arteta is better than Wenger.

What I said was that if the 1996 version of Wenger had took over Arsenal in 2019, he wouldn’t have done any better than Arteta in these circumstances.

 

[Mamoon]

They are the same, you are just describing the status quo when Arteta took over. You can do it in 1 sentence, not need for 2 paragraphs.

They are not the same. The Arteta rebuild job would have been relatively easier to execute if City weren’t so dominant and powerful.

 

[Mamoon]

"
They are not the same. Taking over Arsenal when they were struggling to stay in the top half of the table would have been less challenging if Pep's City did not exist"


@topspin @Technics 1210 @KingKhanWC - this is latest comedy gem from Mr zero ball knowledge

Arsenal in 5 seasons before Arteta

3rd, 2nd, 5th, 6th and 5th

But this is supposedly struggling to stay in top half of the table

5 seasons is a lifetime in football. Arsenal were a nothing team 5 years after the invincibles.

United were a nothing team 5 years after winning multiple PLs on the trot.

Chelsea are a nothing team 3 years after winning the UCL.

Arsenal dipped massively in 2018-19 and when Arteta took over, the club was in free fall and were 8th in the table.

Finishing third or second in the last few seasons had no bearing on Arsenal that season who were clearly struggling to stay afloat in the top half of the table.

 

[MK7Z]

Just to add in regards to missing out on titles, I look back at wengers 1st full 7 seasons at club and vs fergie and the score was wenger 3 fergie 4.

It should have been wenger 5 fergie 2.

Arsenal should have won back to back doubles in 97/98 and 98/99

Losing title away to Leeds, also the FA Cup semi final defeat where Bergkamp missed a penalty

Then 02/03 where Arsenal bottled a lead of 8 points in March.

Arsenal should have won 3 titles in a row back then.

Wenger took 3 titles, but to me he should have won 5. So I question the club any time it's fallen short.

Yet fans get offended over oh you can criticise Arteta the messiah

That is a very fair analysis with and you are consistent.

 

[Technics 1210]

You never paid attention in the first place because I never said that Arteta is better than Wenger.

What I said was that if the 1996 version of Wenger had took over Arsenal in 2019, he wouldn’t have done any better than Arteta in these circumstances.

You have persistently undermined Wenger's achievements.

You got caught lying when you claimed you watched the 92 WC, and you have been caught lying now again. You never watched an EPL game in the 90s, not even highlights.

The reality is if Chelsea and Man United had not been struggling in the past few seasons, Arsenal would be battling for top 4 right now.

Wenger was light years ahead of Arteta and he had way more competition during his time in a league that is easily the best in the world - except in your eyes - despite supporting an EPL team - yes the Man u team of the 90s would have ripped Arteta a new one.

 

[Mamoon]

It is a fact that the PL today is much more stronger than it was in the 80’s and 90’s simply because PL clubs, on both ends of the spectrum, have a lot more relative financial power that allows them to sign foreign players.

The percentage of foreign players in the PL today compared to the percentage of foreign players in the 80’s and 90’s is a lot higher today.

Similarly, the ratio of the top foreign players in the league today is much higher today compared to the 80’s and 90’s.

There was a lot more reliance on homegrown players back then and even the local talent of that era doesn’t hold a candle to today’s English players.

Today’s England team will demolish any England team of the last 30-40 years because they are so much better now in terms of technical ability and this is a byproduct of the influx of foreign coaches and foreign players.

A lot of the so-called top English players with a few exceptions like Shearer and Gazza are nowhere near some of the decent English players of today.

For example, Gary Neville spent 15 years as the main right back for England and United but Ben White is twice the player.

It is so much harder for clubs to be competitive today because there is so much saturation of financial resources across the league.

 

[topspin]

Imagine comparing Zinchenko to TAA

Oh yes how could I forget? The worst footballing analogy I’ve ever read.

Or imagine saying Arsenal attackers need 40 G/A and then saying another player should be judged on how much space he creates

The shifting of goal posts for different players makes his agenda clear for everyone to see.

I understand Internet feeds into caves in Peshawar may effect TV signals, but the nonsense knows no limits

Smack down of the century

 

[Technics 1210]

please quote the post where I claimed that I watched the 92 World Cup.

If you can’t, apologize. So you have two options: either bottle it and get caught with your pants down or apologize for lying.

You mock the very football league you support a team from.

Anyway - title is a 3 way race with manager's reputations at stake. You can fill in the gaps:

A 4 in a row winner
A legacy winner
A first time winner

English Premier League is THE GREATEST football league in the World.

 

[Amjid Javed]

That is a very fair analysis with and you are consistent.

To be honest as fan since 1987 the most disappointing and hurtful defeats / not winning trophies for me are as follows (no particular order)

1991 FA cup semi final defeat vs Spurs (we only lost 3 games all season, but losing to scum 3-1 in semi final was hurtful)

1995 cup winners cup final - being the holders and having beat a star studded sampdoria in semis on penalties, losing to zaragoza in final, where ex spurs player nayim scored from half way line in extra time

Losing title in 98/99 - losing 1-0 to Leeds in 2nd to last game, plus the FA Cup semi was gutting, espcially as united won treble that year

Losing title 02/03 - United were nowhere near as good as Arsenal between 01/02 and 03/04, but losing that title in between was most Annoyed I've got with this club falling short.

So I've seen plenty of ups and some pretty demoralising times as well

 

[MK7Z]

To be honest as fan since 1987 the most disappointing and hurtful defeats / not winning trophies for me are as follows (no particular order)

1991 FA cup semi final defeat vs Spurs (we only lost 3 games all season, but losing to scum 3-1 in semi final was hurtful)

1995 cup winners cup final - being the holders and having beat a star studded sampdoria in semis on penalties, losing to zaragoza in final, where ex spurs player nayim scored from half way line in extra time

Losing title in 98/99 - losing 1-0 to Leeds in 2nd to last game, plus the FA Cup semi was gutting, espcially as united won treble that year

Losing title 02/03 - United were nowhere near as good as Arsenal between 01/02 and 03/04, but losing that title in between was most Annoyed I've got with this club falling short.

So I've seen plenty of ups and some pretty demoralising times as well

I became a fan in 1993 so saw the Wenger Era in its fullest as well as GG.

The lowest point for me has to be the Champions League final we lost. But yeah losing titles to United was horrible. Fergie and his antics worked.

More recently the Leicester season left me feeling rubbish. To beat Leicester the way we did with the Wellbeck goal to then go and lose to Swansea and terrible injury prone united team at OT. That was shameful cos that was our year. Liverpool and Man City hadn't found their feet.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I became a fan in 1993 so saw the Wenger Era in its fullest as well as GG.

The lowest point for me has to be the Champions League final we lost. But yeah losing titles to United was horrible. Fergie and his antics worked.

More recently the Leicester season left me feeling rubbish. To beat Leicester the way we did with the Wellbeck goal to then go and lose to Swansea and terrible injury prone united team at OT. That was shameful cos that was our year. Liverpool and Man City hadn't found their feet.

Yeah the CL final was another one, to hold on for so long with 10 men and then lose.

That Henry miss at 1-0 was gutting. Plus their 1st goal was offside.

The semi final loss to united as well, in such a tame fashion was another one.

Yeah the Leicester title season, to beat them and then lose to a poor united side a few weeks later. Another one as should have won title.

Same as 07/08 - the eduardo leg break, gallas melt down

 

[Mamoon]

I'm glad you see it. I don't know about you, but I think he's (Odegaard) a little bit overrated.

Beautiful.

 

[Mamoon]

Halloween-gard has been poor all season, apart from 1 good game away to Bournemouth.

How many big clubs have a captain who dissapears so much or gets sub off so much. He's nothing more then a handpuppet captain for Arteta

Zero ball knowledge strikes again. How can someone be a football fan and be so clueless at the same time?

 

[Mamoon]

You got caught lying when you claimed you watched the 92 WC, and you have been caught lying now again.

Please quote the post where I claimed that I watched the 1992 World Cup.

 

[Technics 1210]

When you claime

Please quote the post where I claimed that I watched the 1992 World Cup.

When you claimed Pakistan fluked it to the final of 1992 cos of the rained off match vs England, only to be schooled that England got to the final when SA needed 22 of 1 vs England also due to the rain.

Jog on pal.

 

[Mamoon]

When you claime


When you claimed Pakistan fluked it to the final of 1992 cos of the rained off match vs England, only to be schooled that England got to the final when SA needed 22 of 1 vs England also due to the rain.

Jog on pal.

Where does that say that I watched the World Cup?

I will ask again - please quote the post where I claimed that I watched the 1992 World Cup.

 

[topspin]

Beautiful.

Are you addicted to my smackdowns?

I tell you what is beautiful, your local football team aka Peshawar Caveman Bacha Bazi XI.

I stand by the post which you've quoted and I've already schooled you on this topic. Even an injury prone Maddison who played for a relegated Leicester side has better a record of goal contributions than Odegaard in the PL ever since the Norwegian joined Arsenal.

But I would still pick Odegaard because Maddison is injury prone. If Maddison could stay fit, he would be playing for an elite club. Also, I never claimed ESR > Odegaard. But if the Hale End product could keep fit, I would argue he would have a higher ceiling because unlike our meek captain, he's not a mental midget. Odegaard is Arsenal's Babar Azam. Also, ESR was a clinical finisher before he was injured and he had more penetration because he wasn't afraid to be direct.

Also, the other reason why I think Odegaard is overhyped is because he does not belong in the league of top tier CAMs. He's below the likes of KDB, Bellingham, Foden (who can play as a CAM), Musiala, Wirtz and an old Modric. These guys are genuinely world-class.

There's no doubt that the Norweigan is very talented and is aesethically pleasing on the eye, which is another reason for the Babar Azam analogy, but his weak mentality is the reason why he'll fall short of making it as a top tier number 10. Real Madrid identified his mental frailties very early on and recognised that he wasn't to fit to wear the white shirt.

I get that you're starved of seeing male blondes in your region but you need to get this fetish out of your system.

 

[Mamoon]

I stand by the post which you've quoted and I've already schooled you on this topic. Even an injury prone Maddison who played for a relegated Leicester side has better a record of goal contributions than Odegaard in the PL ever since the Norwegian joined Arsenal.

But I would still pick Odegaard because Maddison is injury prone. If Maddison could stay fit, he would be playing for an elite club. Also, I never claimed ESR > Odegaard. But if the Hale End product could keep fit, I would argue he would have a higher ceiling because unlike our meek captain, he's not a mental midget. Odegaard is Arsenal's Babar Azam. Also, ESR was a clinical finisher before he was injured and he had more penetration because he wasn't afraid to be direct.

Also, the other reason why I think Odegaard is overhyped is because he does not belong in the league of top tier CAMs. He's below the likes of KDB, Bellingham, Foden (who can play as a CAM), Musiala, Wirtz and an old Modric. These guys are genuinely world-class.

There's no doubt that the Norweigan is very talented and is aesethically pleasing on the eye, which is another reason for the Babar Azam analogy, but his weak mentality is the reason why he'll fall short of making it as a top tier number 10. Real Madrid identified his mental frailties very early on and recognised that he wasn't to fit to wear the white shirt.

Anyone who knows anything about football can see that Odegaard is a world class attacking midfielder who was always better than the likes of Maddison and no, he is not a mental midget and Smith-Rowe never had more potential than him.

“He had more penetration because he wasn’t afraid of being direct”. Is that supposed to be a dig at Odegaard, who scored 15 goals last season in spite of being one of the most creative players in the world and is in double digits again this season?

This guy is not a top tier CAM according to you. Are you even listening to yourself? At this point I am beginning to feel sorry for you. You don’t know where to hide now that your ridiculous tirade against Odegaard is coming back to haunt you.


As far as Real is concerned, Odegaard moved there was when he was a teenage boy and they had Kroos and Modric in their prime.

He was never going to get enough playing time there and he was too good to stunt his growth by being on the bench. He had to leave and Arsenal gave him the platform to show why he was a wonderkid and before Arsenal, he killed it at Sociedad which earned him the move to Arsenal.

Odegaard is world class and the scary part is that he is only 25 and he is already elite. He is going to only get better from here as he enters his prime years and he will remain Arsenal captain for a long time.

 

[Mamoon]

Odegaard is not better than Maddison because the latter is injury prone. Odegaard is better simply because he is a better footballer.

That is the truth. Keep your weak and limp coping mechanisms to yourself. Even your average Spurs fan who hates Arsenal would laugh at this comparison which never was and never will be and it has absolutely nothing to do with the respective fitness of both players.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Honestly I was in awe of his performance. To be honest the games which we have lost he has not been bad either. Was majestic in the 1st half vs Villa and the 2-0 defeat to West Ham he was on it but we could not finish. He was even MOTM vs Bayern at the emirates.

For some reason people have personal agenda's against him. I find it odd as we are blessed to have such a baller. I still believe people watch football using stats rather then their eyes.

I know @Geordie Ahmed enjoyed that performance by him!

100%

I actually came to this thread with the intention of waxing lyrical about Odegaard

As a neutral (actually not fully as I wanted Arsenal to win as need Chelsea to stay behind us) he was an absolute joy to watch

I said it a while back he's ahead of Maddison and when he's at the top of his game like Tuesday night you realise there is levels to this game and Maddison isn't on his level

He's not just a technically gifted player that's a joy to watch he works so hard for the team, often being the one to lead the press.

What made it even better was listening to Ally McCoist sound so excited when talking about him.

If he can maintain this form until the end of the season and help deliver the title he should win player of the year (obviously still a few games to go so a lot can happen and also I think the voting is already closed so these performances won't have an impact in terms of player of the season)

 

[Mamoon]

Also, to add to my previous smackdown on @topspin, the examples that he used to put down how good Odegaard is also exposed his ignorance.

De Bruyne was the same age as Odegaard was in 2016-17 and Odegaard of today is absolutely not inferior to De Bruyne of 2016-17.

Similarly, Modric was De Bruyne’s age in 2010-11 and Odegaard of today is absolutely not inferior to Modric of 2010-2011.

Bellingham? Using his example shows how little you know about football. They couldn’t be more different as players. Bellingham is not a playmaker.

He is much more of a box to box midfielder who has very little influence on the game unless he is scoring goals because cannot pull the strings the way Odegaard or De Bruyne or Modric can do.

Musiala, Wirtz and Foden are all similar players who are winger/CAM hybrids and very different from a traditional playmaker like Odegaard. None of them can dictate the play like Odegaard does and have the defensive work rate as well.

Amongst the players of his age and the younger lot, there is only one player who is similar and also has potentially higher ceiling - Pedri. That is it.

 

[MenInG]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1783185556911923471

 

[MK7Z]

100%

I actually came to this thread with the intention of waxing lyrical about Odegaard

As a neutral (actually not fully as I wanted Arsenal to win as need Chelsea to stay behind us) he was an absolute joy to watch

I said it a while back he's ahead of Maddison and when he's at the top of his game like Tuesday night you realise there is levels to this game and Maddison isn't on his level

He's not just a technically gifted player that's a joy to watch he works so hard for the team, often being the one to lead the press.

What made it even better was listening to Ally McCoist sound so excited when talking about him.

If he can maintain this form until the end of the season and help deliver the title he should win player of the year (obviously still a few games to go so a lot can happen and also I think the voting is already closed so these performances won't have an impact in terms of player of the season)

Yea the ohhhhs and ahhhs from Ally were Brilliant and his trademark " I tell you what - What a pass by Odegaard ohhhhh" lol

He gets stick for not performing in big games and oddly gets criticized for flicking his hair which i find bizarre from people. But you'll find he stays plays at a decent level in big games they are just harder to influence because of the quality of the opponent. I mean how many people can go up against Rodri and come out with a MOTM performance.

Honestly I am so glad he plays for us and wouldn't swap him for anybody. Call me what you want, fan boy etc...

The whole Maddison debate is based on stats. Maddison is not on his level. Bruno vs Maddison is a better debate.

He was carrying a knock earlier in the season so his form was not like now so POTY probably out of the question but yeah if it was until the end of the season for sure.

I think Ollie Watkins could win POTY. Declan Rice is also in with a shout. Gabriel has been phenomenal but defenders don't tend to get these awards. Macalister has had a good season to. Obviously Foden as well.

 

[IMMY69]

hypothetically speaking @Amjid Javed and i know football does not work on ifs and buts.

If Arsenal won all their games from now until the end of the Season and so did City which would win them the title.

Would you still consider Arsenal/Arteta bottle jobs?

I know this wasn't meant for me but I honestly believe Arteta is doing a fine job and success in the form of trophies will come in time and when they do it will be like an avalanche

 

[MK7Z]

I know this wasn't meant for me but I honestly believe Arteta is doing a fine job and success in the form of trophies will come in time and when they do it will be like an avalanche

I agree he has done a good job to get us where we are and we are close. We are a bloody good team.

If we don't win it this season I am confident we will win a Major next season if we make those small tweaks in some positions which we don't have quality back up, Like RW and CF.

I maintained that if Arsenal stagnated after last season then the conversation whether Arteta is right man for the job would need to be had. We have improved but need to take that winning step.

Whether people agree or disagree, like it or not, He will be here next season and if by then we have not won a major then I think its time to move on from him.

I to believe that this group will win a major by the end of next season. This is not me saying 1 more year of failure is satisfactory NO. I am a realist and I just think we are very close and if 1 more year of Arteta could mean a Major then I am all for it.

Time will tell, we can only support the team, try to enjoy it and hope for the best.

 

[Abdullah]

we've had 2 managers since wenger.

What a statement

Also best manager in last 15 years based on what?

1 trophy in 4.5 seasons in charge. Yet another fan who is rather clueless.

Arsenal's current 4 seasons without a trophy is worst in last decade for the club

I can actually be unbiased about this. I don't support arsenal. He is doing better than what post 2005 wenger, emery

Not based on trophies, but based on eye test! Such a young squad that is pushing peps ATG prem city all the way. The progression in 3 years has been ridiculous.

Artetas leadership has been immense in weeding out the ''superstars'' you used to have who weren't committed to the cause.

Now you have a team that is hardly conceding chances and outscoring everyone. And with the squad age, a couple more of the right signings and experience, it is only a matter of time.

I am actually hoping that it doesn't happen this season, and then you somehow mess it up next season and your team starts to break up, with players not signing new contracts. You have been fortunate with injuries compared to others and this could catchup next season if you don't beef the squad up correctly.

 

[Abdullah]

The Maddison v Odegaard debate is interesting. I don't really like the player comparisons because it does depend on what team you end up in and how you are asked to play.

I am convinced that Bruno at City would not be playing like he does at united, and would be a world beater. (just by looking at how he does for Portugal)

Odegard's Norway have not made the euros and thats with him and Haaland up front. This is purely because of the support cast. Its different when you only have to play in one half of the pitch because your centre backs can cover half the pitch behind them, and the players behind you shut out the opposition down who can hardly get to your penalty area to have a shot. And you see a lot of the ball in a high possession team.

Bruno has to run like a mad man all over the pitch at united, which impacts what he does when he is on the ball too.

Nobody right now is able to say Bruno is better, but that chances created stat Mamoon shared now has bruno top with united having played one game less than arsenal. Oh and Odegard would not consider taking on the shot on his wrong foot like Bruno did.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I know this wasn't meant for me but I honestly believe Arteta is doing a fine job and success in the form of trophies will come in time and when they do it will be like an avalanche

You need to

- Get to cup finals (zero in 4 seasons)
- perform in Europe (Very poor form)
- handle end of season (4 seasons worth of end of season failure)

That's only way trophies arrive.

I get the optimism but their is no proof that in last 4 seasons.

So not sure what trophies are going to arrive?

That's an honest question being asked here.

 

[Kroll]

Oh its a biggie coming up:

Spuds v Woolwich on Sunday.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Oh its a biggie coming up:

Spuds v Woolwich on Sunday.

Now that Liverpool have chocked you supporting Arsenal or City

 

[Technics 1210]

Just for fun I am supporting Spurs for the rest of the season - they are King makers this season for sure!

 

[Mamoon]

Now that Liverpool have chocked you supporting Arsenal or City

I think Arsenal will win the league before you learn to spell choked.

 

[IMMY69]

You need to

- Get to cup finals (zero in 4 seasons)
- perform in Europe (Very poor form)
- handle end of season (4 seasons worth of end of season failure)

That's only way trophies arrive.

I get the optimism but their is no proof that in last 4 seasons.

So not sure what trophies are going to arrive?

That's an honest question being asked here.

AJ, I love you and you know that.
But you do come across as as half glass full, negative hateful individual and a narcissistic to boot.

All these things make it extremely difficult to debate with you...

Success comes in different ways and at different times. There are a few supreme managers that, eith the right backing, have found success immediately (Pep, Mourinho and even Wenger in his first few seasons). This is aided by various factors. I alluded to backing and this can be both financially or just by the board backing a manager to execute their vision.

Another factor could be that they walked into a role where the squad was already top notch... for example Pep taking the Barcelona role when he did or Wenger taking on a squad that had arguably one of the best back four in English Football...

Then you have other great managers who have grown into the role and taken time to even win one cup let alone their first league title... e.g Fergie..

Fergie was almost fired by Man United before he won a few cups and then finally won the league title for United and well the rest his history.

Now you may say that Arteta is naive, has picked the wrong players at a couple of crucial stages... that his team choked last season and May do so again this season...

But here's the difference. Some of us fans, here on PP as well has every single gooner I know that actually go to every home game and many away games, agree that what they've seen in the last four years, particularly in the last two years, has been a complete transformation of how the team plays and we're in million times better place now then we were several years ago.

Watch the highlights of the games we played between 2016 and 2022... watch the majority of players we had.. our defenders, our midfield and attackers.... the contrast is unbelievable... the whole team now knows its role and they defend together.. this hasn't happened overnight.

For the first 2.5 years of Arteta, we had to overhaul so much of the team, in still a new philosophy and the different is there for all to see.

Finally, no one team deserves to have trophies in their cabinet... it has to be earned and it takes time. Only a few teams have managed this in the last decade and we have to earn the right to fill our cabinet with silverware.

For me and the gooners I know, we're on our way to winning things...
I do hope it's whilst Arteta is the manager because frankly it's because of him that we're now competing in the league.

You don't have to reply to me.

 

[Mamoon]

The Maddison v Odegaard debate is interesting. I don't really like the player comparisons because it does depend on what team you end up in and how you are asked to play.

I am convinced that Bruno at City would not be playing like he does at united, and would be a world beater. (just by looking at how he does for Portugal)

Odegard's Norway have not made the euros and thats with him and Haaland up front. This is purely because of the support cast. Its different when you only have to play in one half of the pitch because your centre backs can cover half the pitch behind them, and the players behind you shut out the opposition down who can hardly get to your penalty area to have a shot. And you see a lot of the ball in a high possession team.

Bruno has to run like a mad man all over the pitch at united, which impacts what he does when he is on the ball too.

Nobody right now is able to say Bruno is better, but that chances created stat Mamoon shared now has bruno top with united having played one game less than arsenal. Oh and Odegard would not consider taking on the shot on his wrong foot like Bruno did.

Bruno is a brilliant player. Him vs Odegaard is an interesting one. Both are equally great players but quite different. They can play in the same team together.

Odegaard/Bruno vs Maddison are rubbish comparisons. Maddison is not at their level and never will be.

 

[Technics 1210]

I think Arsenal will win the league before you learn to spell choked.

Yes you got me - a spelling mistake.

 

[Kroll]

Now that Liverpool have chocked you supporting Arsenal or City

Have to be City otherwise I'll have to suffer 180 IQ man doing bhangra for the rest of the summer.

 

[topspin]

Deep down, you are fully aware that you fumbled big time but you don’t have the chops to admit and you don’t want to get called out for it.

He was poor:

• At the back end of 21/22 when Arsenal bottled top 4
• At the back end of last season when Arsenal bottled the title race
• First half of this season
• For Norway during the Euro qualifiers and has been terrible for them ever since he made his debut for them in national colours

One of the main reasons why we keeping falling short is because Odegaard is mental midget, just like your beloved Babar Azam. There's a reason why he is referred to as Arsenal's Babar Azam by multiple posters.

Anyone who knows anything about football can see that Odegaard is a world class attacking midfielder who was always better than the likes of Maddison and no, he is not a mental midget and Smith-Rowe never had more potential than him. "He had more penetration because he wasn’t afraid of being direct”. Is that supposed to be a dig at Odegaard, who scored 15 goals last season in spite of being one of the most creative players in the world and is in double digits again this season?

This guy is not a top tier CAM according to you. Are you even listening to yourself? At this point I am beginning to feel sorry for you. You don’t know where to hide now that your ridiculous tirade against Odegaard is coming back to haunt you.

He is not a top tier CAM. I can name 8 x CAMs better than him.

\. He has achieved more goal contribtuions in the PL ever since Ode joined Arsenal, including a relegated Leicester side. 19 G/A in 30 PL matches for a relegated PL team is far more impressive than 22 G/A in 35 PL matches for one of the two best teams in the league.

As far as Real is concerned, Odegaard moved there was when he was a teenage boy and they had Kroos and Modric in their prime.

He was never going to get enough playing time there and he was too good to stunt his growth by being on the bench. He had to leave and Arsenal gave him the platform to show why he was a wonderkid and before Arsenal, he killed it at Sociedad which earned him the move to Arsenal.

I think Odegaard is supremely talented but he's overrated. He's not world class nor is he top tier CAM.

 

[Mamoon]

Deep down, you are fully aware that you fumbled big time but you don’t have the chops to admit and you don’t want to get called out for it.

He was poor:

• At the back end of 21/22 when Arsenal bottled top 4
• At the back end of last season when Arsenal bottled the title race
• First half of this season
• For Norway during the Euro qualifiers and has been terrible for them ever since he made his debut for them in national colours

One of the main reasons why we keeping falling short is because Odegaard is mental midget, just like your beloved Babar Azam. There's a reason why he is referred to as Arsenal's Babar Azam by multiple posters.

Anyone who knows anything about football can see that Odegaard is a world class attacking midfielder who was always better than the likes of Maddison and no, he is not a mental midget and Smith-Rowe never had more potential than him. "He had more penetration because he wasn’t afraid of being direct”. Is that supposed to be a dig at Odegaard, who scored 15 goals last season in spite of being one of the most creative players in the world and is in double digits again this season?

This guy is not a top tier CAM according to you. Are you even listening to yourself? At this point I am beginning to feel sorry for you. You don’t know where to hide now that your ridiculous tirade against Odegaard is coming back to haunt you.

He is not a top tier CAM. I can name 8 x CAMs better than him.

\. He has achieved more goal contribtuions in the PL ever since Ode joined Arsenal, including a relegated Leicester side. 19 G/A in 30 PL matches for a relegated PL team is far more impressive than 22 G/A in 35 PL matches for one of the two best teams in the league.

As far as Real is concerned, Odegaard moved there was when he was a teenage boy and they had Kroos and Modric in their prime.

He was never going to get enough playing time there and he was too good to stunt his growth by being on the bench. He had to leave and Arsenal gave him the platform to show why he was a wonderkid and before Arsenal, he killed it at Sociedad which earned him the move to Arsenal.

I think Odegaard is supremely talented but he's overrated. He's not world class nor is he top tier CAM.

Took me to school?

I think it is the other way around. The fact that you compared Bellingham, Foden, Wirtz and Musiala who are all completely different footballers to Odegaard showed that you really don’t know the first thing about football.

You simply exposed yourself. I have already explained how and why those players are completely different to Odegaard and they cannot do what Odegaard does so you can’t use them as a stick to beat Odegaard with.

The only young player who has a similar profile to Odegaard is Barcelona’s Pedri.

Comparing Bellingham to Odegaard and bracketing them both as CAMs tells me that you shouldn’t even be allowed to talk about football, but I have to ask myself if that’s a bigger fumble than claiming that Maddison is better than Odegaard.

When Maddison got relegated and was up for grabs, Spurs were the only club who wanted him. If Odegaard wants to leave Arsenal now, you will have a host of top European clubs make a beeline for him.

Odegaard is a virtuoso midfielder and he has been absolutely phenomenal for two years now, if he is not world class and not a top-tier CAM, no one is.

This is one of the worst footballing opinions and hot takes I have had the displeasure of coming across.


60 million down the drain
Kai Havertz scores again
Topspin gets humiliated again

 

[Abdullah]

I'm hoping Madison can end the dream tomorrow.
One game doesn't mean anything but that will be bloody brilliant!

 

[topspin]

You have more interest in point scoring than having any real meaningful football related discussions

You're a fighting a battle that was lost a long time ago. As soon as I pulled out your gems and drove you out of this thread, you took desperate measures and went running off to a cricket forum and tagged me in some random thread because I ended you and you just couldn't get over it.

Took me to school?

I think it is the other way around. The fact that you compared Bellingham, Foden, Wirtz and Musiala who are all completely different footballers to Odegaard showed that you really don’t know the first thing about football.

You simply exposed yourself. I have already explained how and why those players are completely different to Odegaard and they cannot do what Odegaard does so you can’t use them as a stick to beat Odegaard with.

The only young player who has a similar profile to Odegaard is Barcelona’s Pedri.

Bellingham, Wirtz and Musiala all play as number 10s. Foden is a specialist right winger and I've made it clear that he can also play the number 10 role.

The fact that you don't know that they're all number 10s, or can play as number 10 in Foden's case, exposes your ignorance, not for the first time nor will it be for the last time.

Comparing Bellingham to Odegaard and bracketing them both as CAMs tells me that you shouldn’t even be allowed to talk about football, but I have to ask myself if that’s a bigger fumble than claiming that Maddison is better than Odegaard.

When Maddison got relegated and was up for grabs, Spurs were the only club who wanted him. If Odegaard wants to leave Arsenal now, you will have a host of top European clubs make a beeline for him.

Odegaard is a virtuoso midfielder and he has been absolutely phenomenal for two years now, if he is not world class and not a top-tier CAM, no one is.

This is one of the worst footballing opinions and hot takes I have had the displeasure of coming across.

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Speaking of "worst footballing opinions", can you advise which of these is the worst?

• nIcOlAs PePe Is OnE oF tHe HoTtEsT aSsEtS iN eUrOpE
• tItLe Is In ThE bAg
• ZiNcHeNkO iS aRsEnAl’s TaA
• mItoMa > mArTiNeLlI
• ArSeNaL aTtAcKeRs LiKe MaRtInElLi NeEd 40 G/a BuT hAvErTz ShOuLd Be JuDgEd On HoW mUcH sPaCe He CrEaTeS
• I wIlL bE hApPy To Go InTo NeXt SeAsOn WiTh HaVeRtZ aT cF

I have seen better LBs in League One than Zinchenko. Here you've been trying to justify his selection for Arsenal because you've got zero ball knowledge and as I said earlier, you're not here to have any meaningful discussion on football matters. You're just here to cheerlead for Arteta, just like the way Major does it for Misbah.

I didn’t just take you to school, I fried up some chicken nuggets for you and sent you packing with a lunchbox.

60 million down the drain
Kai Havertz scores again
Topspin gets humiliated again

You're acting as if Odegaard has already won Arsenal the Premier League. But the reality is it looks like City will win the title again for a 4th consecutive year. If that ends up being the case, I promise we'll revisit this discussion and this time I'll bury you by letting you know exactly where Odegaard was liable en route for Arsenal to fall short of winning the title.

 

[PakLFC]

C'mon you Spurs! Make sure Arsenal's record of never winning anything continues

 

[Mamoon]

You have more interest in point scoring than having any real meaningful football related discussions

I will keep exposing agenda

You're a fighting a battle that was lost a long time ago. As soon as I pulled out your gems and drove you out of this thread, you took desperate measures and went running off to a cricket forum and tagged me in some random thread because I ended you and you just couldn't get over it.

Fighting a battle? My friend, I have to drop 30 IQ points to even have a discussion with you. You don’t realize that it is a waste of time for me to engage with someone who thinks that Shan Masood deserves to be the captain of the Pakistan Test team and Maddison is better than Odegaard and who is not a top-tier CAM.

The fact that I still engage with you after you harbor such unintelligent and poor opinions means that you should be a little grateful to me.

Bellingham, Wirtz and Musiala all play as number 10s. Foden is a specialist right winger and I've made it clear that he can also play the number 10 role.

The fact that you don't know that they're all number 10s, or can play as number 10 in Foden's case, exposes your ignorance, not for the first time nor will it be for the last time.

The fact that you are not getting it reinforces the fact that you don’t know anything football. It is understandable though - people who don’t know anything about football struggle to understand these intricacies and nuisances.

Wirtz, Musiala and Foden are all winger/AM hybrids. They are completely different players to Odegaard. They cannot fit into the Arsenal as a like for like replacement.

Let me educate you on the difference - Wirtz, Musiala and Foden play on the wings in 4-3-3 and a number 10 in 4-2-3-1.

Odegaard plays as a number 10 in 4-2-3-1 and and an RCM in a 4-3-3. Musiala, Wirtz and Foden are too attack minded to play RCM/LCM in 4-3-3.

Odegaard cannot play on the wings in 4-3-3 just like De Bruyne cannot. Like De Bruyne, is a pure attacking midfielder, not a winger/attacking midfielder hybrid.

As far as Bellingham is coming is concerned, he is a B2B midfielder. The reason why he has been playing in a very advanced role and getting lots of goals this season is because Madrid have been playing without a proper striker.

Vini Jr and Rodrygo are wingers (I hope you know that but I wouldn’t put it past you) and Bellingham has often played as a false 9 at times and has had the space to push forward.

When Mbappe joins in the summer, Madrid will revert back to its traditional 4-3-3 which would mean that Bellingham would slot into his more natural deeper role where he will have to do a lot of defending as well.

There is a clear distinction between a player like Odegaard/De Bruyne and Bellingham and the type of midfielders that they are.

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Speaking of "worst footballing opinions", can you advise which of these is the worst?

• nIcOlAs PePe Is OnE oF tHe HoTtEsT aSsEtS iN eUrOpE
• tItLe Is In ThE bAg
• ZiNcHeNkO iS aRsEnAl’s TaA
• mItoMa > mArTiNeLlI
• ArSeNaL aTtAcKeRs LiKe MaRtInElLi NeEd 40 G/a BuT hAvErTz ShOuLd Be JuDgEd On HoW mUcH sPaCe He CrEaTeS
• I wIlL bE hApPy To Go InTo NeXt SeAsOn WiTh HaVeRtZ aT cF

I have seen better LBs in League One than Zinchenko. Here you've been trying to justify his selection for Arsenal because you've got zero ball knowledge and as I said earlier, you're not here to have any meaningful discussion on football matters. You're just here to cheerlead for Arteta, just like the way Major does it for Misbah.

When will you muster the courage to respond to post #928 in the Arteta thread?

You're acting as if Odegaard has already won Arsenal the Premier League. But the reality is it looks like City will win the title again for a 4th consecutive year. If that ends up being the case, I promise we'll revisit this discussion and this time I'll bury you by letting you know exactly where Odegaard was liable en route for Arsenal to fall short of winning the title.

Odegaard is the major driving force behind Arsenal’s title charge of the last two seasons. He is one of the main reasons why fans like you have started dreaming of winning the league again. Give him the respect that he deserves while you pleasure yourself to the Maddison poster in your bedroom.

Harry Kane has 35 goals in the Bundesliga this season but he won’t win the league this season. Does that mean Kane fell short?

Ronaldo scored 312 goals in La Liga in 9 seasons and didn’t win the league in 7 out of 9 occasions. Does that mean he fell short and his goals were useless barring two seasons?

Odegaard has been sensational since the start of the 2022/23 season and he is a world class player and one of the very best in his position.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Odegard is a far better player than Maddison. The same Maddison who went missing for Liecester and ended up getting relegated.

 

[Kroll]

All in for the Spuds V Woolwich

Maddison v Odegaard @topspin @Mamoon

 

[topspin]

I will keep exposing agenda

Fighting a battle? My friend, I have to drop 30 IQ pointsto even have a discussion with you. You don’t realize that it is a waste of time for me to engage with someone who thinks that Shan Masood deserves to be the captain of the Pakistan Test team and Maddison is better than Odegaard and who is not a top-tier CAM.
The fact that I still engage with you after you harbor such unintelligent and poor opinions means that you should be a little grateful to me.

I would rather have 0 footballing IQ than been known as "touched in the head" on the World Wide Web and you still haven't told me who made this remark, so why I should be grateful?

The last sentence is ironic because you're the one who pings me because I live rent free in your head. I don't blame you. All those smackdowns you've from received me have clearly taken its toll on you.

Maddison hasn't been better than Odegaard in 2024 but he's certainly achieved more goal contributions during the same time they've played in the PL.

Odegaard is not a top tier CAM because I can name 7 x CAMs who are better than him and the reason for that is because on his best days, he can't blow teams away like the way KDB, Musiala and Wirtz are able to. When he's not at his best, he ends up ghosting which can be reflected by his weak mentality.

The fact that you are not getting it reinforces the fact that you don’t know anything football. It is understandable though - people who don’t know anything about football struggle to understand these intricacies and nuisances.

Wirtz, Musiala and Foden are all winger/AM hybrids. They are completely different players to Odegaard. They cannot fit into the Arsenal as a like for like replacement.

Let me educate you on the difference - Wirtz, Musiala and Foden play on the wings in 4-3-3 and a number 10 in 4-2-3-1.

Odegaard plays as a number 10 in 4-2-3-1 and and an RCM in a 4-3-3. Musiala, Wirtz and Foden are too attack minded to play RCM/LCM in 4-3-3.

Odegaard cannot play on the wings in 4-3-3 just like De Bruyne cannot. Like De Bruyne, is a pure attacking midfielder, not a winger/attacking midfielder hybrid.

As far as Bellingham is coming is concerned, he is a B2B midfielder. The reason why he has been playing in a very advanced role and getting lots of goals this season is because Madrid have been playing without a proper striker.

Vini Jr and Rodrygo are wingers (I hope you know that but I wouldn’t put it past you) and Bellingham has often played as a false 9 at times and has had the space to push forward.

When Mbappe joins in the summer, Madrid will revert back to its traditional 4-3-3 which would mean that Bellingham would slot into his more natural deeper role where he will have to do a lot of defending as well.

There is a clear distinction between a player like Odegaard/De Bruyne and Bellingham and the type of midfielders that they are.

They are all CAMs and they are all better than Odegaard.

When will you muster the courage to respond to post #928 in the Arteta thread?

Odegaard is the major driving force behind Arsenal’s title charge of the last two seasons. He is one of the main reasons why fans like you have started dreaming of winning the league again. Give him the respect that he deserves while you pleasure yourself to the Maddison poster in your bedroom.

Reminds me of your obsession with "Johnny Sins bhai". Except I'm not the one with the premature ejaculation as we've yet win a significant trophy under Odegaard's presence in the side.

Harry Kane has 35 goals in the Bundesliga this season but he won’t win the league this season. Does that mean Kane fell short?

Ronaldo scored 312 goals in La Liga in 9 seasons and didn’t win the league in 7 out of 9 occasions. Does that mean he fell short and his goals were useless barring two seasons?

Odegaard has been sensational since the start of the 2022/23 season and he is a world class player and one of the very best in his position.

As I said, if Arsenal don't win the PL, which I expect to be the case, I'll revisit this discussion. Just make sure you don't go into hiding like you did around this time last year, when "Title is in the bag" backfired spectacularly on you.

 

[topspin]

All in for the Spuds V Woolwich

Maddison v Odegaard @topspin @Mamoon

Maddison has been a bum since the turn of the year, so form wise I expect Odegaard to have the better game today, as long as he doesn't go missing like he did in the back end of 21/22 and 22/23.

 

[shaz619]

Come on Arsenal, smash these major ussy’s right in the nunt today!

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Really looking forward to this game

Easily the most entertaining derby in the league

Hopefully it's a good game, I think Arsenal win 3-1

 

[topspin]

1-0. Good start by Arsenal.

 

[Technics 1210]

Oh dear.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

A couple of warning signs for Arsenal, luckily for them Van De Ven was just offside

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Great counter from Arsenal

Lovely finish from Saka and that's game over for me

 

[Amjid Javed]

Huge turning point the disallowed goal and then punishing spurs at other end

0-2

Brilliant start

 

[Mamoon]

60 million down the drain
Kai Havertz assists again
@topspin and @Amjid Javed get humiliated again

What a great ball by Havertz to release Saka.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Huge turning point the disallowed goal and then punishing spurs at other end

0-2

Brilliant start

Surely not

History says they don't win at Spurs

But seriously, this is incredibly easy for Arsenal

Think this could be a big score

 

[Mamoon]

“Arteta cannot handle the pressure of big games in April”

@Amjid Javed

 

[Amjid Javed]

A couple of warning signs for Arsenal, luckily for them Van De Ven was just offside

Offside is offside, spurs were always going to create. But we have punished them twice.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Offside is offside, spurs were always going to create. But we have punished them twice.

I never said it wasn't offside

But when the margin is so tight it's obviously fortunate

 

[Mamoon]

Tomiyasu has been rubbish so far, but he is not Zinchenko so it is okay.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I never said it wasn't offside

But when the margin is so tight it's obviously fortunate

Not fortunate at all, its offside.

Whether it's 1cm or 1 yard it offside.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Arsenal are so good at getting back into their defensive shape

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Not fortunate at all, its offside.

Whether it's 1cm or 1 yard it offside.

Okay

 

[Mamoon]

60 million down the drain
Kai Havertz scores again
@topspin and @Amjid Javed get humiliated again

 

[Amjid Javed]

Now it's game over 3-0

Best 1st half performance from Arsenal this season

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Havertz been brilliant when it's mattered. A clutch player

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

And that's game over

Arsenal are incredible at set pieces, it's such a huge weapon

This is going to be a Rugby score, can get messy for Spurs

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Havertz been brilliant when it's mattered. A clutch player

Yeah

Credit where credits due he's been worth his fee all things considered

 

[Mamoon]

All in for the Spuds V Woolwich

Maddison v Odegaard @topspin @Mamoon

Maddison is a good player. He doesn’t deserve to be subjected to this criticism.

It is not his fault he is not as good as Odegaard because not many are. Just because a clown decided to claim that he is better doesn’t mean Maddison should be roasted for it.

If I start calling Odegaard better than Messi it won’t be Odegaard’s fault, will it.

 

[Mamoon]

Havertz's signing will be the end of Arteta.

0% ball knowledge.

 

[Rana]

Arsenal need to keep scoring

North London Derby, goals can start firing in if spurs get some momentum

 

[Amjid Javed]

And that's game over

Arsenal are incredible at set pieces, it's such a huge weapon

This is going to be a Rugby score, can get messy for Spurs

0-6 - 1935
0-5 - 1978

Hopefully match that...

 

[Rana]

That second goal by Saka was absolute class

Beautiful pass by Havertz and excellent finish by Saka