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England v India | 5th ODI | September 5, 2014 | Leeds

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Reminds me of that Misbah innings in the World Cup semi-final, this. Match lost then he starts swinging like a barn door

:)))
 
Great innings.

If only he had been a bit more aggressive before, Ashwin wouldn't have gone for some ugly slogging and got out.

I will be called negative but I have been saying this for quite a while - After Dhoni - Raina - we don't have much of a clue about scoring fast.

Innings like these from Jaddu (as awesome as they may be) are not the norm. Ashwin is useless in ODIs for most part (if slogging is involved). Good for taking singles only.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Great innings.

If only he had been a bit more aggressive before, Ashwin wouldn't have gone for some ugly slogging and got out.

I will be called negative but I have been saying this for quite a while - After Dhoni - Raina - we don't have much of a clue about scoring fast.

Innings like these from Jaddu (as awesome as they may be) are not the norm. Ashwin is useless in ODIs for most part (if slogging is involved). Good for taking singles only.
Click to expand...

I think once Dhoni was gone it was over anyway.Rayudu's knock ensured that RRR was too high.

Jaddu showed that he can do the job and bat with the tail if RR is in reach.So thats a good sign imo.This situation was out of reach for him though,he did wht he could
 
Saurav said:
I think once Dhoni was gone it was over anyway.Rayudu's knock ensured that RRR was too high.

Jaddu showed that he can do the job and bat with the tail if RR is in reach.So thats a good sign imo.This situation was out of reach for him though,he did wht he could
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Not exactly.

If that was the case, Ashwin wouldn't have been trying to slog aimlessly. There would have been more logic in his batting (we know he can bat according to the situation).

Jaddu showed serious intent after it was too late. Also this is not how Jaddu usually plays too.
 
See as a No 7 batsman you should show intent before.

No point sticking around till its too late.

Yes I agree the match was gone after Dhoni was out but his innings wasn't exactly what you would call a selfless innings.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Not exactly.

If that was the case, Ashwin wouldn't have been trying to slog aimlessly. There would have been more logic in his batting (we know he can bat according to the situation).

Jaddu showed serious intent after it was too late. Also this is not how Jaddu usually plays too.
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I'm not saying they gave up.Just that it was too tough given their abilities.

Both dont slog at same time.Maybe Ashwin was supposed to slog with Jaddu.when he was out Jaddu took over
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
See as a No 7 batsman you should show intent before.

No point sticking around till its too late.

Yes I agree the match was gone after Dhoni was out but his innings wasn't exactly what you would call a selfless innings.
Click to expand...

Even Dhoni leaves slogging to the end sometimes.you think thats bad.It works.

If Ashwin had been successful in his slogging for 2-3 more overs,we were right in it.Then both would have started to slog.

you saying its selfish?I would say iRayudu's innings was more selfish as he batted well below the required RR
 
Saurav said:
I'm not saying they gave up.Just that it was too tough given their abilities.

Both dont slog at same time.Maybe Ashwin was supposed to slog with Jaddu.when he was out Jaddu took over
Click to expand...

Yes it was too tough for them (which is another one of India's problems - if Dhoni, Raina get out - we are screwed).

Ashwin got out on 42.5 (before that I didn't see any good intent from Jaddu - the run rate was so high that somewhat both needed to be hitting - one more than the other, sure).

Then at 45.1 (after all others were out) Jaddu started slogging.
 
Saurav said:
Even Dhoni leaves slogging to the end sometimes.you think thats bad.It works.

If Ashwin had been successful in his slogging for 2-3 more overs,we were right in it.Then both would have started to slog.

you saying its selfish?I would say iRayudu's innings was more selfish as he batted well below the required RR
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I won't call it selfish. But it was not of much use. Talking about the aggressive hitting part.

In NZ, Ashwin was hitting and this guy could rotate the strike. Here Ashwin was out of touch and this guy was set.

Rayudu's innings could have helped us setup the game (even if it wasn't the best). By the time he got out, his SR was 85. If he has stayed in for awhile, it would have reached 90-100.

Once we were close to 200, Dhoni would have finished it off for us.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Yes it was too tough for them (which is another one of India's problems - if Dhoni, Raina get out - we are screwed).

Ashwin got out on 42.5 (before that I didn't see any good intent from Jaddu - the run rate was so high that somewhat both needed to be hitting - one more than the other, sure).

Then at 45.1 (after all others were out) Jaddu started slogging.
Click to expand...

Jaddu was 39 off 40 when Ashwin got out.So its not as if he was blocking like Rayudu.

As I said given his abilities its okay
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I won't call it selfish. But it was not of much use. Talking about the aggressive hitting part.

In NZ, Ashwin was hitting and this guy could rotate the strike. Here Ashwin was out of touch and this guy was set.

Rayudu's innings could have helped us setup the game (even if it wasn't the best). By the time he got out, his SR was 85. If he has stayed in for awhile, it would have reached 90-100.

Once we were close to 200, Dhoni would have finished it off for us.
Click to expand...

Yes it was useless but thats only bcoz 9 wickets were down.If Ashwin was still batting,there was a glint of hope.He wouldnt have to refuse singles for example.

Rayudu took 65 balls for getting to SR of 85,thats too much when chasing a big score.

Dhoni and Raina failed too.

I take Jaddu's innings as a positive seeing match was over once Dhoni was out
 
Saurav said:
Jaddu was 39 off 40 when Ashwin got out.So its not as if he was blocking like Rayudu.

As I said given his abilities its okay
Click to expand...

In the other thread, you are talking about being set, bud :)

Jaddu was set. The intent was lacking when rpo was 10. If he had tried and failed, I wouldn't be saying the same thing.

Ability doesn't come into picture cos we are talking about the intent.

Rayudu - We will attack him when we discuss him.
 
Saurav said:
Yes it was useless but thats only bcoz 9 wickets were down.If Ashwin was still batting,there was a glint of hope.He wouldnt have to refuse singles for example.

Rayudu took 65 balls for getting to SR of 85,thats too much when chasing a big score.

Dhoni and Raina failed too.

I take Jaddu's innings as a positive seeing match was over once Dhoni was out
Click to expand...

That's the point you are not getting bud.

Jaddu's innings is being called not of much use because the main effort was done too late. Even after Ashwin was out, the slogging came too late. Its not about whether his innings would have given us a win. Its about the strategy and intent.

By the way, yes, Jaddu's batting is a positive from this match. I agree.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
That's the point you are not getting bud.

Jaddu's innings is being called not of much use because the main effort was done too late. Even after Ashwin was out, the slogging came too late. Its not about whether his innings would have given us a win. Its about the strategy and intent.

By the way, yes, Jaddu's batting is a positive from this match. I agree.
Click to expand...

I do not agree it was too late.Its hindsight when we say that.

see,Jaddu started slogging after 45 overs when the score was 210.84 needed off 5 overs

If Ashwin had been successful in his slogging till that point he'd got 15-20 runs extra,right?

That'd changed the equation to 65-70 off 5 overs.Tough but doable.

Our only chance was both staying while one of them slogging at that point.When Ashwin got out it was over
 
Saurav said:
I do not agree it was too late.Its hindsight when we say that.

see,Jaddu started slogging after 45 overs when the score was 210.84 needed off 5 overs

If Ashwin had been successful in his slogging till that point he'd got 15-20 runs extra,right?

That'd changed the equation to 65-70 off 5 overs.Tough but doable.

Our only chance was both staying while one of them slogging at that point.When Ashwin got out it was over
Click to expand...

When Ashwin was out, the req run rate was 13.

That was when he got OUT. So you can see the strategy being employed when they both were on crease and the run rate was 10-12.

If Ashwin was slogging and doing it well, then giving him singles is fine. But that wasn't happening and there was no planning.

If Dhoni was there, he would have turned it on. Talking about intent here.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
In the other thread, you are talking about being set, bud :)

Jaddu was set. The intent was lacking when rpo was 10. If he had tried and failed, I wouldn't be saying the same thing.

Ability doesn't come into picture cos we are talking about the intent.

Rayudu - We will attack him when we discuss him.
Click to expand...

Jaddu might have been looking to bat through?

Today 13-14 RPO is chased in 5 overs if you have wickets in the end.

Thats why teams look to take it deep.Dhoni talks about it all the time,about one guy staying till the end.

Jaddu and Ashwin had two options

1)to slog there and then : If worked could have made things easier.But if not innings would be over early.Chances of working are pretty low too

2) to take it till the end :In this one had to slog while other takes till the end.Better chances of working if slogger is successful.But need luck
 
Saurav said:
Jaddu might have been looking to bat through?

Today 13-14 RPO is chased in 5 overs if you have wickets in the end.

Thats why teams look to take it deep.Dhoni talks about it all the time,about one guy staying till the end.

Jaddu and Ashwin had two options

1)to slog there and then : If worked could have made things easier.But if not innings would be over early.Chances of working are pretty low too

2) to take it till the end :In this one had to slog while other takes till the end.Better chances of working if slogger is successful.But need luck
Click to expand...

2nd was not happening and no action was taken. That's the key.

When something doesn't work, you don't stick with it. You yourself said Ashwin looked poor and that's what he was today. He didn't look like hitting anything today.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
When Ashwin was out, the req run rate was 13.

That was when he got OUT. So you can see the strategy being employed when they both were on crease and the run rate was 10-12.

If Ashwin was slogging and doing it well, then giving him singles is fine. But that wasn't happening and there was no planning.

If Dhoni was there, he would have turned it on. Talking about intent here.
Click to expand...

no Dhoni often takes it to the end himself.Relies on other guy to slog.Read some of his interviews on that :)

Yeah I would call it lack of planning.I think they wanted to take it deep but thats just me

It could be that they couldnt handle pressure and Jaddu's slogging might have been due to less pressure

One of senior guys is needed in such situations.I didnt see some messages from dressing room either
 
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