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Hashim Amla vs Virat Kohli in ODIs

Amla and Kohli have played in 11 ODIs together now.

Kohli: Averages 35 SR of 79 with 0 hundreds and 3 fifties

Amla: Averages 62 SR of 91 with 2 hundreds and 5 fifties
 
I'd still not back Amla to chase 350 plus scores on flat wickets.

You could argue Amla is a better player for all kinds of surfaces.

But in a serious run chase, even on a phatta wicket, Amla won't make it. And that's where Kohli will perform.
 
Inziquicksingle said:
Amla and Kohli have played in 11 ODIs together now.

Kohli: Averages 35 SR of 79 with 0 hundreds and 3 fifties

Amla: Averages 62 SR of 91 with 2 hundreds and 5 fifties
Click to expand...

Slightly unfair comparison.

One is facing the best pace bowling attack in the world and the other is facing the worst.

WC2015 will put this debate to an end once and for all, as of now both have choked on the big stage.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
I'd still not back Amla to chase 350 plus scores on flat wickets.

You could argue Amla is a better player for all kinds of surfaces.

But in a serious run chase, even on a phatta wicket, Amla won't make it. And that's where Kohli will perform.
Click to expand...

Very true.

Kohli is the best ODI batsman in the world and 2 bad games in SA won't change that.

A clear inability to look beyond statistics, I see.

Hit me up when Amla scores 50 and 60 ball hundreds chasing massive totals even on the flattest wicket in the world against the worst bowling attack.
 
Inziquicksingle said:
Amla and Kohli have played in 11 ODIs together now.

Kohli: Averages 35 SR of 79 with 0 hundreds and 3 fifties

Amla: Averages 62 SR of 91 with 2 hundreds and 5 fifties
Click to expand...

Both were taking on different bowling units so the comparison is not fair.
 
Mamoon_ said:
Very true.

Kohli is the best ODI batsman in the world and 2 bad games in SA won't change that.

A clear inability to look beyond statistics, I see.

Hit me up when Amla scores 50 and 60 ball hundreds chasing massive totals even on the flattest wicket in the world against the worst bowling attack.
Click to expand...

Australia bowling is not that bad TBH. But I agree with you, people reads too much into flat tracks. If it was so easy to chase 350 odd scores consistently on flat tracks, why cant other teams do it? Its not that India bat twice in an ODI match at home and don't allow opposition to bat at all :P

Flat track or not, Kohli is way better than Amla. Its not even a debate.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
I'd still not back Amla to chase 350 plus scores on flat wickets.

You could argue Amla is a better player for all kinds of surfaces.

But in a serious run chase, even on a phatta wicket, Amla won't make it. And that's where Kohli will perform.
Click to expand...

Lucky for Amla then, his bowlers almost never let the opposition make that much!

And talk to me when Kohli hits hundreds on non flat decks vs decent bowling.
 
Moosa said:
Australia bowling is not that bad TBH. But I agree with you, people reads too much into flat tracks. If it was so easy to chase 350 odd scores consistently on flat tracks, why cant other teams do it? Its not that India bat twice in an ODI match at home and don't allow opposition to bat at all :P

Flat track or not, Kohli is way better than Amla. Its not even a debate.
Click to expand...

I am not saying that they have the worst attack. I was making the point that Amla cannot play such knocks on the flattest of wickets against the worst bowling attack.

That is why I rate Kohli more than Amla.
 
Amla averages 42 on the flat decks of India, if you choose to ignore his hundred vs Netherlands.
 
Inziquicksingle said:
And your point is? :))
Click to expand...

My point is that scoring in a particular venue should not be discounted.

Kohli has played some astounding match winning knocks at an age Amla wasn't even good enough to debut, and he still hasn't replicated that in spite of being in the peak years of his career.

It is grossly stupid to hold Kohli's performance in India against him because of the flat decks.

Amla himself hasn't covered himself in glory on those decks.
 
And these stats savy folks are conveniently forgetting the fact that Kohli averaged 48 in South Africa the last time he toured there. Got 31 in the first game and a zero in the second this time but the average remains more than impressive.
 
Moosa said:
This should seal the debate.

/ thread.
Click to expand...

Oh so we are talking statistics now? Can you handle them?

1. Amla has a higher average and SR than Kohli.

2. Amla has a better innings/century ratio than Kohli

3. Amla has a better 50/innings ratio than Kohli

4. Amla has scored 2k, 3k, 4k runs in less innings than Kohli.

5. Amla doesn't play on the flattest decks tailor made for the ball to not bounce above knee high.

Thoughts?
 
Inziquicksingle said:
Oh so we are talking statistics now? Can you handle them?

1. Amla has a higher average and SR than Kohli.

2. Amla has a better innings/century ratio than Kohli

3. Amla has a better 50/innings ratio than Kohli

4. Amla has scored 2k, 3k, 4k runs in less innings than Kohli.

5. Amla doesn't play on the flattest decks tailor made for the ball to not bounce above knee high.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Yes thats why Kohli is Ranked 1 ODI batsman & Amla is 4th. :P
Untitled.jpg
 
Ah the ICC rankings, where Amla was ranked higher than Kohli for about 2 years I believe. Another few failures from Kohli and Amla will be back on top.

Btw, Amla and AB are ranked higher than Dhoni :)
 
Inziquicksingle said:
Ah the ICC rankings, where Amla was ranked higher than Kohli for about 2 years I believe. Another few failures from Kohli and Amla will be back on top.

Btw, Amla and AB are ranked higher than Dhoni :)
Click to expand...

What do you think of Amla's sub 30 average in ICC events?
 
It would be stupid to think a kid playing on flat tracks making a mountain load of runs same country Nohit scores a double two day later he cant play 16 balls in a row. India has a history of making competent cricketers look great. Sehwag being a good example.
Amla is the most adaptable batsman going around along AB. Plays his cricket in tough conditions too.
Kohli is not fit enough to lace his boots
 
Mamoon_ said:
What do you think of Amla's sub 30 average in ICC events?
Click to expand...

First off, stop making things ups, he averages 36 in ICC tourneys.

Too small a sample to be made a big deal of. He will most likely play another 2 world cups and other events...so there's a long way to go. He has played only 2 knockout matches or something in his entire career.

Just like Amla or Kohli careers overall for that matter. Their legacy will be decided at the end of their careers and they can be called greats/not greats after 150 matches imo.
 
soso_killer said:
Kohli is not fit enough to lace his boots
Click to expand...

For the record, I don't think this is true at all (in ODIs)

If someone believes Kohli is a better ODI player, have at it, good for you.

I do however have an issue with hypocrites saying Amla is anything but an excellent ODI batsman or Kohli is on another planet etc. Simply not true.
 
Inziquicksingle said:
First off, stop making things ups, he averages 36 in ICC tourneys.

Too small a sample to be made a big deal of. He will most likely play another 2 world cups and other events...so there's a long way to go. He has played only 2 knockout matches or something in his entire career.

Just like Amla or Kohli careers overall for that matter. Their legacy will be decided at the end of their careers and they can be called greats/not greats after 150 matches imo.
Click to expand...

Averaged 32 in the 2011 World Cup. If Kohli's superlative efforts on Indian pitches are to be ignored, why not Amla's hundred there vs Netherlands of all teams?

and, I've generously included Amla's 50 vs Bangladesh in Dhaka.

Averaged 20 in the 2009 Champions Trophy and 31.75 in the 2012 Champions Trophy.

So, 3 ICC events spread across 4 years is too small a sample, but 2 ODI games in South Africa (where Kohli averaged 48 last time around including an unbeaten 87 curtailed by rain) is big enough to dance around and come to the conclusion that Amla is much better than Kohli

Well played sir, well played :23:
 
Inziquicksingle said:
For the record, I don't think this is true at all (in ODIs)

If someone believes Kohli is a better ODI player, have at it, good for you.

I do however have an issue with hypocrites saying Amla is anything but an excellent ODI batsman or Kohli is on another planet etc. Simply not true.
Click to expand...

Look, I disagree with both extremes.

Kohli isn't on another level to Amla. IMO, he is just better.

Also, I disagree with the assessment that Amla is a class above Kohli.

However, Amla is definitely the number 2 batsman across all formats after de Villiers.
 
Mamoon_ said:
Very true.

Kohli is the best ODI batsman in the world and 2 bad games in SA won't change that.

A clear inability to look beyond statistics, I see.

Hit me up when Amla scores 50 and 60 ball hundreds chasing massive totals even on the flattest wicket in the world against the worst bowling attack.
Click to expand...

So, you say Kohli is best odi batsman beacause he can score 100 off 60 balls, so your criteria
is player must have a higher strike rate on flat tracks to be called as best odi batsman, well i then i think this is the criteria of being a best T20 batsman instead of best odi batsman, and besides india we rarely see flat tracks being built for 350 totals in odis, a standard odi pitch always have more for batsman but bowlers do get some assistance generally and totals are usually around 270 mark, so this way Amla> Kohli bcoz he mostly plays on standard odi pitches where bowlers get some assisstance unlike kohli who plays on T20 pitches.
 
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sohaib anwer said:
So, you say Kohli is best odi batsman beacause he can score 100 off 60 balls, so your criteria
is player must have a higher strike rate on flat tracks to be called as best odi batsman, well i then i think this is the criteria of being a best T20 batsman instead of best odi batsman, and besides india we rarely see flat tracks being built for 350 totals in odis, a standard odi pitch always have more for batsman but bowlers do get some assistance generally and totals are usually around 270 mark, so this way Amla> Kohli bcoz he mostly plays on standard odi pitches where bowlers get some assisstance unlike kohli who plays on T20 pitches.
Click to expand...

This is not my criteria.

My criteria is the frequency of match winning, match changing, memorable and magical innings which Amla hasn't played in his ODI career apart from that 150 in England in 2012.

Kohli, 183 vs Pakistan while chasing 320, his 130 from 80 balls when India had to chase 320 before 40 overs, the match winning hundreds of 50 and 60 balls chasing huge totals vs Australia.

Has Amla played such innings?
 
Mamoon_ said:
Averaged 32 in the 2011 World Cup. If Kohli's superlative efforts on Indian pitches are to be ignored, why not Amla's hundred there vs Netherlands of all teams?

and, I've generously included Amla's 50 vs Bangladesh in Dhaka.

Averaged 20 in the 2009 Champions Trophy and 31.75 in the 2012 Champions Trophy.

So, 3 ICC events spread across 4 years is too small a sample, but 2 ODI games in South Africa (where Kohli averaged 48 last time around including an unbeaten 87 curtailed by rain) is big enough to dance around and come to the conclusion that Amla is much better than Kohli
Click to expand...
This
 
Mamoon_ said:
This is not my criteria.

My criteria is the frequency of match winning, match changing, memorable and magical innings which Amla hasn't played in his ODI career apart from that 150 in England in 2012.

Kohli, 183 vs Pakistan while chasing 320, his 130 from 80 balls when India had to chase 320 before 40 overs, the match winning hundreds of 50 and 60 balls chasing huge totals vs Australia.

Has Amla played such innings?
Click to expand...

Let me say first both are wonderful players in their own ways and no comparison could be drawn out so easily.
Amla consistently plays innings which helps his team win matches, you just mentioned that 150 inning against England, 100 knock yesterday and 65 runs knock of 1st odi, yes maybe you can say he hasnt played exuberant kind of innings because he doesnt muscle the ball like kohli and dohni, thats his style of playing what he can do if he is a natural-timer but still he manages to maintain SR around 100 usually and that too being an opener when the new ball swings ,,,, make kohli open next year his average would drop to 40.

Maybe we will keep on fighting on this endless discussion, without even realising that in what conditions these guys usually play, neglecting their batting order and forgetting the dynamics of their teams of both players?
 
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Mamoon_ said:
So, 3 ICC events spread across 4 years is too small a sample, but 2 ODI games in South Africa (where Kohli averaged 48 last time around including an unbeaten 87 curtailed by rain) is big enough to dance around and come to the conclusion that Amla is much better than Kohli

Well played sir, well played :23:
Click to expand...

Wait what? Where did I say 2 ODIS in SA are a big enough sample to conclude Amla is "much better" than Kohli? You must be mistaking me for another poster. Or lying.

Amla and Kohli are both 2 of the best ODI batsman. Somewhere in the top 5 along with Dhoni, AB.

Maybe you are thinking of all the posts that were in ecstasy after Amla scored the 98. Words like mediocre, choker, "fugly" batsman, won't get into the Indian top order (:)))), match loser etc were being thrown around. I didn't see you asking those posters to be fair (maybe cuz you were leading the pack :)))

The hoopla since yesterday is just in response to that day of trolling. Expectedly, most of those posters have gone missing.
 
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By the way whats the record of each player in each country vs the home team? That will give us a far better indication
 
What's Kohli's record in global tournaments? His first one being champions trophy 2009
 
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Kohli averaged 35 in the 2011 WC and if you take out his 100 against Bangladesh it drops to 22.

His average in Champioms trophy is 67. Which is inflated because his only two fifties are not outs.

I guess both Amla and Kohli have something to prove on the big stage.
 
London_Lahori said:
Kohli averaged 35 in the 2011 WC and if you take out his 100 against Bangladesh it drops to 22.

His average in Champioms trophy is 67. Which is inflated because his only two fifties are not outs.

I guess both Amla and Kohli have something to prove on the big stage.
Click to expand...
And why exactly would you discount Bangladesh & not out's? :23:
 
^^^Saw the article on cricinfo yesterday as well.
Amla clearly dominates every type of bowler in any surface across different continents. Scores at over 4.5 runs an over against everyone (right/left arm fast bowler, right/left arm spinners etc). And not many bowlers have dismissed him more 3 times.

So if one player can consistently dominate attacks across the board but can't score 30 ball hundreds, and the other capable of such feat but needs specific type of conditions to perform, does it not make him limited as well? Who gets to define who is limited and who is not? And what are the parameters of the debate?
 
[MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] we had all 3 of Kohli, AB and Amla tour recently but no one scared me more than Kohli. Amla's an accumulator but without someone going at the other end he's not much of a threat, AB bats too low to have as a significant impact as Kohli. Kohli can construct an innings and then tear you a new one at the death. Phenomenal ODI player.
 
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Aman said:
[MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] we had all 3 of Kohli, AB and Amla tour recently but no one scared me more than Kohli. Amla's an accumulator but without someone going at the other end he's not much of a threat, AB bats too low to have as a significant impact as Kohli. Kohli can construct an innings and then tear you a new one at the death. Phenomenal ODI player.
Click to expand...

Its not about what/who scares you, its about who hurts (regularly I should add).
On face value Sehwag would scare you more than say Amla due to the destructive nature.
However take a glance at the surface and you see green Sehwag ain't so scary anymore.
While Amla would still not be scary, he can still hurt you even if the pitch had something for the bowlers.
Its like living in fear of a lion whilst living in a City were a car is of immediate danger to you.
Unfortunately for Kohli not every match is played on Indian airports in which case he'd have a shout of being the greatest player of all time. Not that Kohli is as useless as Sehwag but his "superpowers" are non existent outside concretes.
While Amla is racking up hundreds everywhere, the Kohli sideshow can be put on hold.
 
To be fair, Amla at Kohli's age was not even considered decent. Kohli is going through a tough period but he ain't Tailunt Sharma to keep getting worse.
 
2015 World Cup so far:

Amla bhai

Average of 16.5 at a Strike Rate of 61

Kohli

Average of 76.5 and a Strike Rate of 82

Amla bhai is in the form of his life while Kohli is struggling.

Nightmare of a start who were betting on Amla bhai having a better World Cup individually.

:uakmal
 
Mamoon said:
2015 World Cup so far:

Amla bhai

Average of 16.5 at a Strike Rate of 61

Kohli

Average of 76.5 and a Strike Rate of 82

Amla bhai is in the form of his life while Kohli is struggling.

Nightmare of a start who were betting on Amla bhai having a better World Cup individually.

:uakmal
Click to expand...


Also dropped Dhawan at 53 and he went on to score 137 :))
 
Terrible WC for bhai fan club so far. Amla bhai might pull a Dhoni and win Saffers a knockout game, who knows?
 
soso_killer said:
Its not about what/who scares you, its about who hurts (regularly I should add).
On face value Sehwag would scare you more than say Amla due to the destructive nature.
However take a glance at the surface and you see green Sehwag ain't so scary anymore.
While Amla would still not be scary, he can still hurt you even if the pitch had something for the bowlers.
Its like living in fear of a lion whilst living in a City were a car is of immediate danger to you.
Unfortunately for Kohli not every match is played on Indian airports in which case he'd have a shout of being the greatest player of all time. Not that Kohli is as useless as Sehwag but his "superpowers" are non existent outside concretes.
While Amla is racking up hundreds everywhere, the Kohli sideshow can be put on hold.
Click to expand...

No good being a player when you can't kick off when needed..

Amla and dekok shekok only good for Jo'burg and saffer phattas ...in crunch they bakwaaas
 
:amla bhai just looks a completely different player when the heat is on. The contrast with his bilateral-self is shocking.
 
If Amla/Kohli both continue performing like they have done so far in this tournament, then there will be no doubt left as to who is better.
 
Anchorman said:
If Amla/Kohli both continue performing like they have done so far in this tournament, then there will be no doubt left as to who is better.
Click to expand...

But but but but . . . but fastest to 6k runs and 413 runs in 4 games vs. West Indies. :amla
 
Kohli brigade seems to be having all the fun headed by its ring leader Mamoon ji. ;-)

Amla is bound to power up at some point of time in this WC. So Amla brigade's wrath could be mighty.
 
:amla bhai might power up against West Indies.

#413runsin4innings
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Kohli brigade seems to be having all the fun headed by its ring leader Mamoon ji. ;-)

Amla is bound to power up at some point of time in this WC. So Amla brigade's wrath could be mighty.
Click to expand...

We have our own battle of the clubs at PP :)) Should be interesting.

Btw, I think everyone is in the Kohli brigade. Who doesn't rate him?

It's only Amla who has an anti brigade headed by Mamoon :P
 
Mamoon said:
:amla bhai might power up against West Indies.

#413runsin4innings
Click to expand...

:))

I honestly thought Bhai would own us today.

Was scared of him and ABDV.

Still early days in the tourney. Let's see.
[MENTION=136108]Donal Cozzie[/MENTION] - Chip in comments bro.
 
Hawkeye said:
We have our own battle of the clubs at PP :)) Should be interesting.

Btw, I think everyone is in the Kohli brigade. Who doesn't rate him?

It's only Amla who has an anti brigade headed by Mamoon :P
Click to expand...

What anti-brigade? I'm only reviewing the performance of Bhai Association ®. :amla
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Kohli brigade seems to be having all the fun headed by its ring leader Mamoon ji. ;-)

Amla is bound to power up at some point of time in this WC. So Amla brigade's wrath could be mighty.
Click to expand...

Will that be against a top team? Last WC, his only hundred came against Netherlands. Two fifties, one against Bangla. He had a 60 against India, the only saving grace. Lots of weaker teams to bully this time - WI, UAE, Ireland. But we are interested in his match versus Pakistan and the KOs.
 
Hawkeye said:
We have our own battle of the clubs at PP :)) Should be interesting.

Btw, I think everyone is in the Kohli brigade. Who doesn't rate him?

It's only Amla who has an anti brigade headed by Mamoon :P
Click to expand...

People in both brigades rate both Kohli and Amla.

Those who feel Kohli is better are in Kohli brigade.
Those who feel Amla is better are in Amla brigade.

The clash of these 2 brigades are going to be fun. ;-)

Looks like Mamoon has charged everyone up (especially the Amla brigade). They will bide their time now and strike when the time comes.

This war is going to light up the whole of PP.

That's for sure. :))

Fun times.
 
IndianWillow said:
Will that be against a top team? Last WC, his only hundred came against Netherlands. Two fifties, one against Bangla. He had a 60 against India, the only saving grace. Lots of weaker teams to bully this time - WI, UAE, Ireland. But we are interested in his match versus Pakistan and the KOs.
Click to expand...

When Amla scores a century against minnows, Amla brigade will have a small smile.

But when he does against a top team, they will strike back.

With vengeance.

At the end of the WC, we will know which brigade won.
 
My brigade is growing at an alarming rate so get in because seats are limited.

Bhai Association ® not being able to acquire any new members lately.

:amla
 
Whether you love him or hate him or despise him, its astounding how one poster can change the face of a forum and the way people think.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is truly the Viv Richards of this forum.

Goes beyond stats.

He has single handedly has created a rivalry out of nothing and I am sure 100s of active PP posters are eagerly are awaiting Amla and Kohli matches in this WC.

This is what makes forums so much fun.

Rivalry.

You win some. You lose some.

But you have a lot of fun in the whole process.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Whether you love him or hate him or despise him, its astounding how one poster can change the face of a forum and the way people think.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is truly the Viv Richards of this forum.

Goes beyond stats.

He has single handedly has created a rivalry out of nothing and I am sure 100s of active PP posters are eagerly are awaiting Amla and Kohli matches in this WC.

This is what makes forums so much fun.

Rivalry.

You win some. You lose some.

But you have a lot of fun in the whole process.
Click to expand...

And when you lose you don't go into hiding, unlike Ajmal brigade that disappeared for three weeks after he failed the test. :amla
 
Indeed forum would be boring without Mamoon, [MENTION=135445]Strike Rate[/MENTION], sif etc.

No matter if they're right or wrong on a particular matter. ;-)
 
Earlier the debate used to be ABDV vs Kohli.

Now no one in this forum is giving 2 hoots about that. :)))

Its Kohli vs Amla all the way.
 
^ bhai gimmick has added extra flavour to this battle and everyone has started to relate to it.

de Villiers vs. Kohli is boring, and de Villiers' brigade isn't remotely as sensitive.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Earlier the debate used to be ABDV vs Kohli.

Now no one in this forum is giving 2 hoots about that. :)))

Its Kohli vs Amla all the way.
Click to expand...

ABD might not have performed today but imo ABD as a player that is batsmen+fielder is way better than Amla and Kohli how much ever stats they collect won't matter.
 
Mamoon said:
^ bhai gimmick has added extra flavour to this battle and everyone has started to relate to it.

de Villiers vs. Kohli is boring, and de Villiers' brigade isn't remotely as sensitive.
Click to expand...

ABD is above Kohli that's why most are not really bothered and its Amla and Kohli who are targetting their 5000 6000 7000 statistics.
 
JaDed said:
ABD might not have performed today but imo ABD as a player that is batsmen+fielder is way better than Amla and Kohli how much ever stats they collect won't matter.
Click to expand...

I am not talking about who is better.

I was talking about interest level. No one cares if ABDV or Kohli is better as of now.

Its all Amla vs Kohli. ;-)

Reg who is better - we will get an idea after this WC.

Talent wise, ABDV is a superman. In the league of Viv.
 
If Kohli is questioned on his bad form, it's likely he would hit you with an abuse or a punch. Amla on the other hand is hard to dislike guy..
 
Bhai is a phenomenal odi player however for me he hasn't played enough games to judge him properly - 109 isn't enough. Wait until he has 200+ odis and then judge him.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
:))

I honestly thought Bhai would own us today.

Was scared of him and ABDV.

Still early days in the tourney. Let's see.
[MENTION=136108]Donal Cozzie[/MENTION] - Chip in comments bro.
Click to expand...

The problem for bhai was, he was out-bhaid by Parnell today and the beard power for today was given to Parnell bhai, but Parnell bhai sucks so it was a waste and unfortunately for bhai without the beard power he just cant perform.

So, unless Amla bhai comes up against a team with a similar beard, or Parnell plays again, he will rediscover his form.

Bhai :amla:
 
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