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New Zealand [615/9d] defeat England [353, 197] by an innings and 65 runs to win 1st Test

Robert

Robert

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So the ENG sqaud is:

Rory Burns
Dom Sibley
Joe Denly
Joe Root (capt)
Ben Stokes
Ollie Pope
Jos Buttler (wk)
Sam Curran
Jofra Archer
Jack Leach
Stuart Broad

I like the look of this side. NZ will probably win because they are powerful at home, but England have newer batting faces and more emphasis on batting long (rather than trying to smash their way out of trouble and collapsing for 70 all out), so I hope to see some better scores on the board.

Looks like Stokes will bat at #5 which is a good place for him, as the second best batter now and with more responsibility.
 
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New Zealand will win. England is a very poor test side and NZ is very good at home these days.
 
HappyWarsFan said:
New Zealand will win. England is a very poor test side and NZ is very good at home these days.
Click to expand...

Beat Indian 4-1, swept SL 0-3 away and held the Aussies 2-2. Ranked third in the world by the ICC.

You're think of the side which got bowled out for < 100 often. I think these lads will be more resilient and less prone to collapse.
 
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Robert said:
Beat Indian 4-1, swept SL 0-3 away and held the Aussies 2-2. Ranked third in the world by the ICC.

You're think of the side which got bowled out for < 100 often. I think these lads will be more resilient and less prone to collapse.
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Why has Pakistan toyed around with England in tests this decade?

Drawing 2-2 isn't an achievement. England failed to get the ashes back from Australia.
 
Robert said:
Beat Indian 4-1, swept SL 0-3 away and held the Aussies 2-2. Ranked third in the world by the ICC.

You're think of the side which got bowled out for < 100 often. I think these lads will be more resilient and less prone to collapse.
Click to expand...

England have played significantly more tests at home than away since Jan, 2014. That partly explains the rankings. Only Saffers play a higher percentage at home.
 
HappyWarsFan said:
Why has Pakistan toyed around with England in tests this decade?

Drawing 2-2 isn't an achievement. England failed to get the ashes back from Australia.
Click to expand...

I guess England keep underestimating Pakistan (who are ranked seven in the world currently).

I think 2-2 was OK given that they played the first test a bowler down, and picked the wrong players. I htought they would lose the series but they exceeded my expectations.

Anyway that is history. The England batting is new and I think temperamentally suited to tests. Burns got a century against the powerful Aussie bowling and Denly finished the series with three consecutive fifties (one a 96). Sibley batted more time than any other batter in the CC last season by a very long way. This in turn will help Root who can stop doing repair jobs and bat on platforms instead. Stokes improved as a batter by much this year, and I think he can get even better.
 
Sibley and Pope are good picks- let’s see if they can score in a tough series.
 
HappyWarsFan said:
Why has Pakistan toyed around with England in tests this decade?

Drawing 2-2 isn't an achievement. England failed to get the ashes back from Australia.
Click to expand...
Even 2-2 flatters them. It was superhuman effort of Stokes that helped them level.
 
Robert said:
I guess England keep underestimating Pakistan (who are ranked seven in the world currently).

I think 2-2 was OK given that they played the first test a bowler down, and picked the wrong players. I htought they would lose the series but they exceeded my expectations.

Anyway that is history. The England batting is new and I think temperamentally suited to tests. Burns got a century against the powerful Aussie bowling and Denly finished the series with three consecutive fifties (one a 96). Sibley batted more time than any other batter in the CC last season by a very long way. This in turn will help Root who can stop doing repair jobs and bat on platforms instead. Stokes improved as a batter by much this year, and I think he can get even better.
Click to expand...

England are a decent side but unfortunately it's not excellent. It would be more apt to rate England a better test team than pretty much everyone bar India, Australia and perhaps New Zealand. So, No.4 it is.
 
It will be a good contest if conditions are anywhere near the usual NZ conditions as both teams like swing friendly conditions.
 
BaankeJi said:
Even 2-2 flatters them. It was superhuman effort of Stokes that helped them level.
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Well, I say it was rain on the last day of the second test that stopped then winning the series.
 
Good to see england pick fresh faces and move forward. Should be a competative series between the sides.

New zealand are strong at home but england can cause an upset.
 
The addition of Archer and leach will make this English attack much better overseas so I don't think there are favourites here. Also dom and Ollie look like really talented batsmen .
 
Englands top 3 are inexperienced at test level. Boult and Southee will be licking their lips on any track which some help.

Should be a great series to watch.
 
These 2 teams are producing classics cricket lately. Both teams have amazing talent, I mean i wish we have in pak batting lineup jos butler or ben stokes. It should be cracker.
 
Sibley off the mark in tests with a first ball four, like Gower, Lamb and Stewart before him.
 
Really should have reviewed that one a couple of overs ago.

The conditions at Seddon Park will be completely different to this. The pitch on day 1 over there will look like a jungle, and the pitch ages amazingly.
 
Another English batsman with a very horrible to watch stance and set-up. Whatever works for him I guess.
 
England looking to grind out the first session under the new management. Definitely more emphasis on batting time.
 
Lmao Root took 21 balls to get off the mark and then gets out the very next ball :)))

He's in horrid form.
 
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HappyWarsFan said:
Why has Pakistan toyed around with England in tests this decade?

Drawing 2-2 isn't an achievement. England failed to get the ashes back from Australia.
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Pakistan has been their bogey team in this decade but they tend to raise their game against vastly superior sides than Pakistan.

New Zealand are good at home but I hoping that England will continue to inflict misery on them this year.

241/4 on day 1 is a very strong position and there is only a small chance of New Zealand winning this particular Test.
 
Another terrific innings by the ATG Stokes. 120/3 was a precarious position and he delivered under pressure yet again. Such a high-impact cricketer.
 
Mamoon said:
Another terrific innings by the ATG Stokes. 120/3 was a precarious position and he delivered under pressure yet again. Such a high-impact cricketer.
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If England win the series in New Zealand that means they have done it all in this decade(except in. U.a.e)
 
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Danyaalr01 said:
Another English batsman with a very horrible to watch stance and set-up. Whatever works for him I guess.
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Reminds me of Trott. I don’t mind if he looks crabby as long as he stays in and grinds out runs.
 
Mamoon said:
Another terrific innings by the ATG Stokes. 120/3 was a precarious position and he delivered under pressure yet again. Such a high-impact cricketer.
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He benefitted from the top order wearing the Kiwis down, and that chance through slip that went begging. He was able to push the score on. If he can get through the first hour of day two he can crack on.
 
England are slightly ahead. If they can get to 350, they will back themselves to win.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">Erm.... <a href="https://t.co/bZcv4whLzN">pic.twitter.com/bZcv4whLzN</a></p>— James Anderson (@jimmy9) <a href="https://twitter.com/jimmy9/status/1197208510469222401?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 20, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

:))
 
Well done England, edging both days so far, keep scrapping!
 
England well on top here. New Zealand have to pull off something special to turn things around from here.
 
rofl and I was laughed at when I said England is still a quality side in SENA countries. Their depth in batting makes them formidable in England, new zealand etc. They probably won't play bounce well in australia but they would do well in s.africa since their pitches offer seam and swing movement.

Yes I don't see England winning in india but they are still a very good test team.

England may not have great prolific batsmen apart from GOAT stokes and maybe root but they have incredible dpeth that bat deep till number 9. Bowling department is quite strong in countries where the ball can swing and seam.
 
tyron_woodley said:
rofl and I was laughed at when I said England is still a quality side in SENA countries. Their depth in batting makes them formidable in England, new zealand etc. They probably won't play bounce well in australia but they would do well in s.africa since their pitches offer seam and swing movement.

Yes I don't see England winning in india but they are still a very good test team.

England may not have great prolific batsmen apart from GOAT stokes and maybe root but they have incredible dpeth that bat deep till number 9. Bowling department is quite strong in countries where the ball can swing and seam.
Click to expand...

There is a general anti-English bias here. They are severely underrated on this forum.

Had any other team won in India, Australia, South Africa, potentially New Zealand and win the World Cup in one decade, people wouldn’t stop singing praises.
 
Good stuff from us so far.

Match not in the bag yet, but a strong foundation to build upon.
 
Mamoon said:
There is a general anti-English bias here. They are severely underrated on this forum.

Had any other team won in India, Australia, South Africa, potentially New Zealand and win the World Cup in one decade, people wouldn’t stop singing praises.
Click to expand...

Swept SL 0-3 away too.

Bayliss made a lot of bad selections in tests and it’s early doors for Silverwood but a corner may have been turned, with batters who will dig in and a varied attack with a capable spin option.

Now we just need the skipper to make runs again.
 
Outside Kane's wicket which was a really good ball, those were really soft dismissals. Latham wasn't even out, but that's on him for not reviewing.

There's still a lot of batting left, so I'm not going to get ahead and say anything. Eng are ahead though 65-35.
 
If england can gain a sizeable lead here they could push themselves into a good position to win the game from here onwards.

Englands batting looks well balanced now.

Grit early on which allows you then to be able to score runs and be attacking later on in the inns, seems the coach/captain have finally realized how you play in ODIs and Tests cant be the same.
 
Mamoon said:
There is a general anti-English bias here. They are severely underrated on this forum.

Had any other team won in India, Australia, South Africa, potentially New Zealand and win the World Cup in one decade, people wouldn’t stop singing praises.
Click to expand...
Had those teams won in the fashion England did, they'd cop it too.
 
tyron_woodley said:
rofl and I was laughed at when I said England is still a quality side in SENA countries. Their depth in batting makes them formidable in England, new zealand etc. They probably won't play bounce well in australia but they would do well in s.africa since their pitches offer seam and swing movement.

Yes I don't see England winning in india but they are still a very good test team.

England may not have great prolific batsmen apart from GOAT stokes and maybe root but they have incredible dpeth that bat deep till number 9. Bowling department is quite strong in countries where the ball can swing and seam.
Click to expand...

Ta for the comments overall.

You think someone averaging 36 is GOAT but someone averaging 48 isn’t?
 
Aman said:
Had those teams won in the fashion England did, they'd cop it too.
Click to expand...

You need to move on. The World Cup is England’s and nothing will change that fact. No one stopped New Zealand from scoring more boundaries.
 
Robert said:
Ta for the comments overall.

You think someone averaging 36 is GOAT but someone averaging 48 isn’t?
Click to expand...

Not fair to compare the averages of an all-rounder and a specialist batsman.
 
Robert said:
Swept SL 0-3 away too.

Bayliss made a lot of bad selections in tests and it’s early doors for Silverwood but a corner may have been turned, with batters who will dig in and a varied attack with a capable spin option.

Now we just need the skipper to make runs again.
Click to expand...

I like the look of this lineup, but I wonder if Anderson can still be accommodated back into the side. Archer is the new hero, Broad is undroppable and S. Curran brings a new dimension with his feisty cricket.
 
Mamoon said:
You need to move on. The World Cup is England’s and nothing will change that fact. No one stopped New Zealand from scoring more boundaries.
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I have moved on, it's you who brought up the WC and teams criticizing England :facepalm:

I swear you complain about people hating on England in every thread when no one is saying anything about them.
 
Robert said:
Ta for the comments overall.

You think someone averaging 36 is GOAT but someone averaging 48 isn’t?
Click to expand...

all rounder and match winner though. GOAT stokes is a big match player plus he gets crucial wickets too.
100% one of the greatest of all time. I think his average will hit 40s soon.
 
Robert said:
They won in India, SA and SL very well!
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They did.

My comment was to Mamoon on people taking credit away for England for winning the WC in the fashion they did. Any team who had won a WC like that would have it questioned, it's not just because they want to pick on England.

If he had won like that, we'd cop it too with people bringing up how we never won the Final. I would have claimed it but deep down I wouldn't take it as a proper win because we've been brought up on World Champions winning WC Finals and becoming champions and in that instance we did not have an actual winner in the Final. Take it being bitter, but I have moved on and am just saying how I would have taken it if it was the other way around.
 
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Aman said:
I have moved on, it's you who brought up the WC and teams criticizing England :facepalm:

I swear you complain about people hating on England in every thread when no one is saying anything about them.
Click to expand...

I only replied to the poster who stated that people underrate England. Every time the World Cup is mentioned, you do not have to remind people that the final and the super-over were tied. It makes you come across as someone who is better and does not have the capacity to accept defeat.

Besides, the anti-English sentiment here has nothing to do with the World Cup win. It has existent for many, many years. In fact, during the World Cup, people were opening bottles of champagne when England looked like missing out on the semis, but then these people got schooled big time.

All in all, winning the World Cup and winning Test series in India, Australia and South Africa in on decade is phenomenal and something that every team would dream of but very few, if any, have had the capability to replicate it.

About time England cricket gets the respect it deserves.
 
Mamoon said:
I only replied to the poster who stated that people underrate England. Every time the World Cup is mentioned, you do not have to remind people that the final and the super-over were tied. It makes you come across as someone who is better and does not have the capacity to accept defeat.

Besides, the anti-English sentiment here has nothing to do with the World Cup win. It has existent for many, many years. In fact, during the World Cup, people were opening bottles of champagne when England looked like missing out on the semis, but then these people got schooled big time.

All in all, winning the World Cup and winning Test series in India, Australia and South Africa in on decade is phenomenal and something that every team would dream of but very few, if any, have had the capability to replicate it.

About time England cricket gets the respect it deserves.
Click to expand...
Maybe it's on here, but people respected past England Test teams and respect the current LOI team which is among the top 3 teams in the world at present.

This English Test team isn't as good as previous teams. I think the English fans and media also has a lot to do with people hating on English teams, they go overboard at times.
 
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Mamoon said:
I like the look of this lineup, but I wonder if Anderson can still be accommodated back into the side. Archer is the new hero, Broad is undroppable and S. Curran brings a new dimension with his feisty cricket.
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I doubt it. Jimmy might play a one-off home test if someone gets injured, but he is 38 and got England off to losing start in the Ashes by going down injured after four overs.

Broad is the wise old owl hitting the top of off, Archer has the pace and fire, waSam aCurran the left-arm swing, Leach is a more attacking option than Moeen and Stokes can still bowl a few overs to 'spell' the others and pinch out a wicket here and there.

This is the best England attack since Swann finished.
 
tyron_woodley said:
all rounder and match winner though. GOAT stokes is a big match player plus he gets crucial wickets too.
100% one of the greatest of all time. I think his average will hit 40s soon.
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I think he playes great innings rather than being a great batter.

He is capable of reaching 45 average by the time he finishes. His bowling was not good enough for him to be picked for it without his batting, and he will bowl less in future. Probably best to concentrate on his batting now. #5 is the right place for him in this new role.

He is a superlative fielder too, top three for England I have seen with Randall and Collingwood.
 
archer and curran should be an effective combo and they compliment one another
 
Robert said:
I doubt it. Jimmy might play a one-off home test if someone gets injured, but he is 38 and got England off to losing start in the Ashes by going down injured after four overs.

Broad is the wise old owl hitting the top of off, Archer has the pace and fire, waSam aCurran the left-arm swing, Leach is a more attacking option than Moeen and Stokes can still bowl a few overs to 'spell' the others and pinch out a wicket here and there.

This is the best England attack since Swann finished.
Click to expand...

Jimmy should take retirement if his body cannot take the pressure.
 
Test-wise, I have no concerns with the bowling and fielding which seem to both be in an excellent place. There is quality on the field and there is quality in reserve.

The batting is my main worry - although to be fair, the team’s performance at the crease in this match has been more promising than usual, with some gritty, patient and genuinely good partnerships being built.

On the last tour of New Zealand, I think we were 60 all out or so when we won the toss and chose to bat. Now just a couple of years later, we have made it to 353. There were some disappointing dismissals, Root keeps losing his head, and it was not a perfect collective demonstration of Test match batting by any means - but it looks like at least a par score on this pitch, and is a step in the right direction.
 
James said:
Test-wise, I have no concerns with the bowling and fielding which seem to both be in an excellent place. There is quality on the field and there is quality in reserve.

The batting is my main worry - although to be fair, the team’s performance at the crease in this match has been more promising than usual, with some gritty, patient and genuinely good partnerships being built.

On the last tour of New Zealand, I think we were 60 all out or so when we won the toss and chose to bat. Now just a couple of years later, we have made it to 353. There were some disappointing dismissals, Root keeps losing his head, and it was not a perfect collective demonstration of Test match batting by any means - but it looks like at least a par score on this pitch, and is a step in the right direction.
Click to expand...

Depends on the condition. Been that way in NZ for a very long time. There is always one test in every series where first day will be a nightmare for batsmen. dibbly dobbly bowlers like Tuffey, Simon Doull will be unplayable. Then from 2nd day it will become a batting beauty.
 
Robert said:
I think he playes great innings rather than being a great batter.

He is capable of reaching 45 average by the time he finishes. His bowling was not good enough for him to be picked for it without his batting, and he will bowl less in future. Probably best to concentrate on his batting now. #5 is the right place for him in this new role.

He is a superlative fielder too, top three for England I have seen with Randall and Collingwood.
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funnily enough he is a kiwi lol. Aman should be jealous.
But on serious note, his bowling is pretty impressive in helpful conditons. He often takes crucial wickets. He is a pohenomenal athlete and a wonderful player. All time great for me without a doubt.

kalis obviously is the greatest all rounder but stokes is easily top 5 now.
Stokes' batting just keeps getting better every year.
 
honestly think this England side is as good as the 2012 English team in swing friendly conditions due to the depth in batting plus the GOAT stokes factor and world class bowlers like broard and archer. I said swing friendly. Obviously 2012 team is better overall in Asia.
We haven't seen archer in australia yet so I will reserve my judgement on that for now.

People keep underrating this England side and I don't see why.

broad
archer
curran
stokes
leach

and if they add ali that's 6 bowlers. That alone makes them dangerous in SENA countries.

Batting is deep despite having mediocre openers. The lack of a strong top 3 is well compensated by their depth in batting deep till number 10. Broad and leach can bat.

They are indeed a powerful side and are a force to be reckoned with.
 
tyron_woodley said:
honestly think this England side is as good as the 2012 English team in swing friendly conditions due to the depth in batting plus the GOAT stokes factor and world class bowlers like broard and archer. I said swing friendly. Obviously 2012 team is better overall in Asia.
We haven't seen archer in australia yet so I will reserve my judgement on that for now.

People keep underrating this England side and I don't see why.

broad
archer
curran
stokes
leach

and if they add ali that's 6 bowlers. That alone makes them dangerous in SENA countries.

Batting is deep despite having mediocre openers. The lack of a strong top 3 is well compensated by their depth in batting deep till number 10. Broad and leach can bat.

They are indeed a powerful side and are a force to be reckoned with.
Click to expand...

Archer has all the ingredients to be lethal in Australia. He has completed England’s attack. They will definitely have more bite in their bowling the next time they play in Australia.
 
Mamoon said:
Archer has all the ingredients to be lethal in Australia. He has completed England’s attack. They will definitely have more bite in their bowling the next time they play in Australia.
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absolutely. Huge fan of fast bowlers with actual ability. No use bowling fast if you dont have a searing bouncer, swing delivers or the ability to seam.
archer has no these variations. Dude is a beast unlike this naseem fraud.
 
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tyron_woodley said:
absolutely. Huge fan of fast bowlers with actual ability. No use bowling fast if you dont have a searing bouncer, swing delivers or the ability to seam.
archer has no these variations. Dude is a beast unlike this naseem fraud.
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Few days ago you were praising pakistani bowlers and now of a sudden you started calling him fraud,You are a fickle.
 
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andy0204 said:
Few days ago you were praising pakistani bowlers and now of a sudden you started calling him fraud,You are a fickle.
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I said shaheen is talented and has a high ceiling. never praised naseem. I said sameen looked ideal for Australian conditions. I never once said naseem has world class potential.

Dude just bowls like a reta*d. no skill whatsoever. I don't know if he will Improve but right now he seems pretty mediocre.
 
This test series is not a part of the ICC Test Championship.

God knows how is this allowed to happen, when two of the top teams are playing.
 
TheRock said:
This test series is not a part of the ICC Test Championship.

God knows how is this allowed to happen, when two of the top teams are playing.
Click to expand...

The series was organised before the WTC was and didn't fit in with the amount of home/away series a team plays in a cycle
 
tyron_woodley said:
honestly think this England side is as good as the 2012 English team in swing friendly conditions due to the depth in batting plus the GOAT stokes factor and world class bowlers like broard and archer. I said swing friendly. Obviously 2012 team is better overall in Asia.
We haven't seen archer in australia yet so I will reserve my judgement on that for now.

People keep underrating this England side and I don't see why.

broad
archer
curran
stokes
leach

and if they add ali that's 6 bowlers. That alone makes them dangerous in SENA countries.

Batting is deep despite having mediocre openers. The lack of a strong top 3 is well compensated by their depth in batting deep till number 10. Broad and leach can bat.

They are indeed a powerful side and are a force to be reckoned with.
Click to expand...

The 2012 side had much stronger openers, plus KP and on-form Root and Bell, a better keeper in Prior, then Swann, and a Broad at #8 who hit ten test fifties.

Of the current side Archer would get into the 2012 team, but I don’t know who would make way for Stokes.
 
Robert said:
The 2012 side had much stronger openers, plus KP and on-form Root and Bell, a better keeper in Prior, then Swann, and a Broad at #8 who hit ten test fifties.

Of the current side Archer would get into the 2012 team, but I don’t know who would make way for Stokes.
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in English conditions?
 
Robert said:
The 2012 side had much stronger openers, plus KP and on-form Root and Bell, a better keeper in Prior, then Swann, and a Broad at #8 who hit ten test fifties.

Of the current side Archer would get into the 2012 team, but I don’t know who would make way for Stokes.
Click to expand...

KP
bell
trott
prior
Strauss
cook

this is a strong batting team. They were very good for a couple of years. bowling is stronger now in my opinion.
 
tyron_woodley said:
I said shaheen is talented and has a high ceiling. never praised naseem. I said sameen looked ideal for Australian conditions. I never once said naseem has world class potential.
Dude just bowls like a reta*d. no skill whatsoever. I don't know if he will Improve but right now he seems pretty mediocre.
Click to expand...

He bowled well consistently bowling in 140’s he took the wicket of warner but unfortunately that was no ball,he need to be careful about no balls.
 
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