Draft #3 - Tests (post-1970 players)

[anikrc1]

[MENTION=134789]maddgenius[/MENTION].

 

[therealAB]

Imaginations can be wild

Please take this debate to the other thread atm comparing the clutchness of Smith to the lack thereof of Sachin

 

[therealAB]

Ok let me explain in more detail. Say sachin and Lara is 95 in 100 as batsman and Ponting is 92. I can argue that smith is better than sachin , but let's say i concede that. Even then chappel and smith will be 92 as batsman and kallis and sangakra 88. Labuscagne will be something like 70. Now add up.

Agreed. For me the rankings go

Smith=>Sachin=>Lara>Chappell>Kallis>Sanga>Ponting>>>>Labu

Even if I concede Smith after Lara, I still have 4 ATG's to your three

 

[anikrc1]

Agreed. For me the rankings go

Smith=>Sachin=>Lara>Chappell>Kallis>Sanga>Ponting>>>>Labu

Even if I concede Smith after Lara, I still have 4 ATG's to your three

Not mine, but bhaijan's, i don't have any atg in my middle order yet.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Ok let me explain in more detail. Say sachin and Lara is 95 in 100 as batsman and Ponting is 92. I can argue that smith is better than sachin , but let's say i concede that. Even then chappel and smith will be 92 as batsman and kallis and sangakra 88. Labuscagne will be something like 70. Now add up.

If you need a weird and unconvincing calculation like that to prove a point, you are already not there.

You are totally undermining stature and star power.

 

[anikrc1]

If you need a weird and unconvincing calculation like that to prove a point, you are already not there.

You are totally undermining stature and star power.

I believe in team game.

 

[therealAB]

If you need a weird and unconvincing calculation like that to prove a point, you are already not there.

You are totally undermining stature and star power.

Define Star Power. Because if that means winning key games vs good attacks I have got that in bucketloads

 

[Bhaijaan]

Agreed. For me the rankings go

Smith=>Sachin=>Lara>Chappell>Kallis>Sanga>Ponting>>>>Labu

Even if I concede Smith after Lara, I still have 4 ATG's to your three

I can give it a spin too.

I have the trio that ruled a generation in batting. 2 of my batsmen are considered greatest/best by most fans/ex cricketers/ analysts. That counts for way more than having more ATGs on paper. There are arguably 100 ATG cricketers, only about 10 players who usually are considered the best by most people.

If weight of stature is being considered, GOAT contenders outweigh ATG contenders by a long way

 

[Bhaijaan]

So it is assumed Smith will retire with a career test average of 63? but Labuschagne's average of 63 will drop to 40, Archer will retire within an year? Very fair assumptions.

 

[anikrc1]

So it is assumed Smith will retire with a career test average of 63? but Labuschagne's average of 63 will drop to 40, Archer will retire within an year? Very fair assumptions.

I am not really going by statistics but eye test. Archer is a hostile bowler no doubt but doesn't have the skill set or control of a cummins or hazlewood. As for labuscagne he is untested against spin .

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Define Star Power. Because if that means winning key games vs good attacks I have got that in bucketloads

How many GOAT bowlers has Smith faced

 

[anikrc1]

How many GOAT bowlers has Smith faced

Not overall, but ashwin in rank turner has a better record than almost every spinner. Smith handled him quite well.

 

[therealAB]

Not overall, but ashwin in rank turner has a better record than almost every spinner. Smith handled him quite well.

Ashwin, Jadeja on turners is as GOAT attack as any.

 

[therealAB]

I can give it a spin too.

I have the trio that ruled a generation in batting. 2 of my batsmen are considered greatest/best by most fans/ex cricketers/ analysts. That counts for way more than having more ATGs on paper. There are arguably 100 ATG cricketers, only about 10 players who usually are considered the best by most people.

If weight of stature is being considered, GOAT contenders outweigh ATG contenders by a long way

Only due to asthetics. Kallis was simply a more effective batsmen due to Ponting. Look on aussie forums, and they all consider Chappell, Smith >> Ponting.

For an unbiased, statistics driven analysis of test batsmen

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/81266-dog-s-top-100-test-batsmen-countdown-thread.html

Having an extra ATG's is a huge advantage, especially when it is highly debatable whether Lara/Sachin are better than Chappell, Smith. The gap between ATG's is very minor, compared to the difference between Sanga and Labu for example

 

[maddgenius]

Javed Miandad

 

[maddgenius]

[MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION]

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Only due to asthetics. Kallis was simply a more effective batsmen due to Ponting. Look on aussie forums, and they all consider Chappell, Smith >> Ponting.

For an unbiased, statistics driven analysis of test batsmen

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/81266-dog-s-top-100-test-batsmen-countdown-thread.html

Having an extra ATG's is a huge advantage, especially when it is highly debatable whether Lara/Sachin are better than Chappell, Smith. The gap between ATG's is very minor, compared to the difference between Sanga and Labu for example

Its obvious that your batting order is the best, sachin, lara ponting might be better than sanga, smith, chappell by a hair's breadth but then you also have kallis, it isn't even a debate.
According to me
Sachin=smith(bcoz of longevity)
Chappell>=Ponting
Lara>Sanga

 

[Bhaijaan]

It's a weird debate.

I admire Smith, a lot.

But the guy's career is not finished and most current and ex cricketers openly put Kohli ahead of him as an overall batsman. With that in mind, why is there a hurry to put him ahead of Sachin? I mean not even ahead of Ponting, Lara and so many other greats with 150 tests but you're putting him over a guy with 200 tests. I think it's insane and rather unfair on Smith and not on Sachin.

It makes guys like me ridicule Smith just for the sake of it even though I hate to.

Sometimes it feels like rather than admiration for good batsmen like Smith, Sangakkara, Kallis etc, people just have an urge to put Sachin down by their desperate attempts.

Whether you like it or hate it, Tendulkar is not just one of the giants of the game, by all means he is The giant of the game.

Let Smith, Kohli, Babar, Root,Williamson retire. Let's see what their final numbers and accomplishments are. There is no hurry.

People ca themselves true fans of the game and yet they show no awareness of what it takes to play 150+, 200 test matches. It's 24 years if cricket at the highest level. If you can't say anything good, just stay quiet and stop embarrassing yourselves.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

The only thing i find wrong is that in a team of atgs kallis' batting won't be as useful as someone like devilliers or even inzimam ul haq . Kallis was a innings builder not a dasher and coming at no. 5 after some great atgs you"ll need him to attack but still he is thrice the batsman marnus labuschagne is.

 

[therealAB]

The only thing i find wrong is that in a team of atgs kallis' batting won't be as useful as someone like devilliers or even inzimam ul haq . Kallis was a innings builder not a dasher and coming at no. 5 after some great atgs you"ll need him to attack but still he is thrice the batsman marnus labuschagne is.

Completely understand. I feel that playing other ATG bowlers, which is what we are playing for when these teams play each other, Kallis is great at 6 in this situatiion as he can stop any collapses and build long partnerships, while also being able to undertake a bowling workload

 

[mumtaz]

I haven't seen Chappell bat but as far as the other three are concerned, for anyone who has watched them bat and is not simply going by the numbers, Ponting-Sachin-Lara >> Sanga-Smith-Kallis especially with Kallis batting way out of position. The first three used to not just blunt but dominate top quality bowling attacks and take matches away from the other team. Thats someone like KP used to do but without the kind of defensive ability of Ponting-Sachin-Lara.

For Sanga-Smith-Kallis, only Sanga has that ability. If you have to make the maximum use of that middle order, you have to bat Kallis at 3, that is where he can show his ATG ability, he will be very ordinary at 5-6. I would actually go with Kallis-Smith-Sanga-Chappell. If Sanga is not keeping, he should be at 4 and Smith should be at 5.

 

[therealAB]

I haven't seen Chappell bat but as far as the other three are concerned, for anyone who has watched them bat and is not simply going by the numbers, Ponting-Sachin-Lara >> Sanga-Smith-Kallis especially with Kallis batting way out of position. The first three used to not just blunt but dominate top quality bowling attacks and take matches away from the other team. Thats someone like KP used to do but without the kind of defensive ability of Ponting-Sachin-Lara.

For Sanga-Smith-Kallis, only Sanga has that ability. If you have to make the maximum use of that middle order, you have to bat Kallis at 3, that is where he can show his ATG ability, he will be very ordinary at 5-6. I would actually go with Kallis-Smith-Sanga-Chappell. If Sanga is not keeping, he should be at 4 and Smith should be at 5.

Ponting so overrated. Bad on spin and average on swining wickets

And Chappell is every bit as dominating as the Lara/Ponting/Sachin. Basically all aus supporters believe Chappell, Smith >> Ricky 'home track bully' Ponting

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

I haven't seen Chappell bat but as far as the other three are concerned, for anyone who has watched them bat and is not simply going by the numbers, Ponting-Sachin-Lara >> Sanga-Smith-Kallis especially with Kallis batting way out of position. The first three used to not just blunt but dominate top quality bowling attacks and take matches away from the other team. Thats someone like KP used to do but without the kind of defensive ability of Ponting-Sachin-Lara.

For Sanga-Smith-Kallis, only Sanga has that ability. If you have to make the maximum use of that middle order, you have to bat Kallis at 3, that is where he can show his ATG ability, he will be very ordinary at 5-6. I would actually go with Kallis-Smith-Sanga-Chappell. If Sanga is not keeping, he should be at 4 and Smith should be at 5.

Ideally Sangakkara at 3, Kallis at 4 and Smith at 5 is the way for such a middle order. It's just unfortunate for Smith but he has to wait his time in the dressing room because only then you are maximising the capacities of Sanga and Kallis.

 

[Bhaijaan]

With 110 cricketers divided in 10 teams, there are very minute statistical yet astronomical differences in stature for some.of the players.

You can claim your players to be almost as good as all you like, but names of a lot of them will never be brought up while discussing the absolute best cricketers ever.

That little difference for you could be a matter of one player being a certain Top 10 ever vs someone struggling to even make Top 50.

It's weird but that's how rankings work

 

[Ab Fan]

I pick <B>Gordon Greenidge</B>.

My top 4

Barry Richards
Gordon Greenidge
Viv Richards
AB de Villiers

 

[therealAB]

With 110 cricketers divided in 10 teams, there are very minute statistical yet astronomical differences in stature for some.of the players.

You can claim your players to be almost as good as all you like, but names of a lot of them will never be brought up while discussing the absolute best cricketers ever.

That little difference for you could be a matter of one player being a certain Top 10 ever vs someone struggling to even make Top 50.

It's weird but that's how rankings work

The astronomical differences in stature are affected a lot by non-cricket factors. Ponting is considered above Kallis in test cricket partly because of how dominant he was in ODI cricket. Looking at how good they were and how they performed in all positions, Kallis >Ponting. No one considers ponting anyone near a top 10 in the game, same with lara to a big degree

Chappell is guaranteed above ponting in stature though, look at cricketweb or bigfooty forums.

Lara and Sachin vs Smith and Chappell is a good debate with points on both sides. The former two def have more stature due to being recent players but I believe they are all very similar level players. Sachin especially played in a huge market which helped him with stature.

basically stature is not strongly correlated with ability at this level. I wouldn't pick Lara over Chappell because he has more fans - that doesn't make him more likely to succeed

And Labuschagne has no stature anyway

 

[Bhaijaan]

I will ignore Sachin, he has a secured legacy of greatest since Bradman.

But Lara alone is leagues above G Chappell, Sanga, Kallis etc any of them.

Ricky Ponting failing in India is a reason why he will never be considered as good as SRT, Lara but despite failing in India he is comfortably ahead of Kallis, Sangakkara as a batsman.

Especially for those who hype Steve Smith , they should be real and acknowledge Ponting averaged 59.9 at the height of his peak.

Some really dodgy verdicts I am seeing.

Smith averaging 60 in 80 tests is better than Sachin but Ponting who averaged 59.9 at similar time in his career is even below Kallis, Sangakkara??

There is a poll on PP itself about which cricketer was the nearest to the elite of Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting won it comprehensively . I know because I started that poll

 

[therealAB]

[MENTION=65183]freelance_cricketer[/MENTION] http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/81266-dog-s-top-100-test-batsmen-countdown-thread.html. Very interesting, unbiased analysis that takes into account a huge amount of factors

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

With 110 cricketers divided in 10 teams, there are very minute statistical yet astronomical differences in stature for some.of the players.

You can claim your players to be almost as good as all you like, but names of a lot of them will never be brought up while discussing the absolute best cricketers ever.

That little difference for you could be a matter of one player being a certain Top 10 ever vs someone struggling to even make Top 50.

It's weird but that's how rankings work

Indeed but don't you think the stature that you talk about was the work of a carefully constructed PR exercise and probably the strength of a billion people put together?

That is not ow rankings work but rather how people's opinions work. Sachin Tendulkar for all praise he gets - rightfully so - never crossed 900 points in test rankings. If you make a list based on the rating points, Sachin may not even appear in top 10.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I pick <B>Gordon Greenidge</B>.

My top 4

Barry Richards
Gordon Greenidge
Viv Richards
AB de Villiers

Probably the 2nd best batting line up in the competition after Bhaijaan XI

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

What is the use of a stature which never helped Sachin average >40 in 4th innings in general or chase down 125 against Ambrose? I would prefer a Stokes who single handedly chased down 359 when all chips were down or a Mike Hussey who bailed out Australia on numerous occasions.

 

[therealAB]

I will ignore Sachin, he has a secured legacy of greatest since Bradman.

But Lara alone is leagues above G Chappell, Sanga, Kallis etc any of them.

Ricky Ponting failing in India is a reason why he will never be considered as good as SRT, Lara but despite failing in India he is comfortably ahead of Kallis, Sangakkara as a batsman.

Especially for those who hype Steve , they should be real and acknowledge Ponting averaged 59.9 at the height of his peak.

Some really dodgy verdicts I am seeing.

Smith averaging 60 in 80 tests is better than Sachin but Ponting who averaged 59.9 at similar time in his career is even below Kallis, Sangakkara??

There is a poll on PP itself about which cricketer was the nearest to the elite of Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting won it comprehensively . I know because I started that poll

That is because they are modern and of course will have more stature. Sobers is considered by many, many people do be > Sachin as the best since Bradman. Sachin doesn't have a secured legacy. Having a poll that places Ponting > Sobers it is plain wrong. If you had a pole of Bradman vs Sachin I reckon sachin would get pretty close. This shows the modern bias

Ponting's average was built on flat tracks. Tracks in aus during those days were incredibly flat. SMith has performed in tough conditions in Eng and Ind. Looking at pure averages here would be the logic that says Barrington > Sobers, for example

Kallis played on the toughest home decks in world cricket during his time, and has done excellently in India. Saying they played in the same conditions in heinous

 

[Bhaijaan]

Indeed but don't you think the stature that you talk about was the work of a carefully constructed PR exercise and probably the strength of a billion people put together?

That is not ow rankings work but rather how people's opinions work. Sachin Tendulkar for all praise he gets - rightfully so - never crossed 900 points in test rankings. If you make a list based on the rating points, Sachin may not even appear in top 10.

Thank you. Now please stick to this.

Please pull up Ashwin's rating points. Has Warne ever touched Ashwin's rating points peak?

Let us all please join me in declaring Ashwin GOAT spinner?

 

[therealAB]

What is the use of a stature which never helped Sachin average >40 in 4th innings in general or chase down 125 against Ambrose? I would prefer a Stokes who single handedly chased down 359 when all chips were down or a Mike Hussey who bailed out Australia on numerous occasions.

agreed. Stature is a function of size of country and aesthetics, not of quality

 

[therealAB]

[MENTION=65183]freelance_cricketer[/MENTION]. One last question. If you had a to pick a batsman to score a century on a tricky pitch, would you really pick Sachin.

 

[therealAB]

Thank you. Now please stick to this.

Please pull up Ashwin's rating points. Has Warne ever touched Ashwin's rating points peak?

Let us all please join me in declaring Ashwin GOAT spinner?

Home conditions hugely advantageous.... Not a fair comparison at all

 

[anikrc1]

What is the use of a stature which never helped Sachin average >40 in 4th innings in general or chase down 125 against Ambrose? I would prefer a Stokes who single handedly chased down 359 when all chips were down or a Mike Hussey who bailed out Australia on numerous occasions.

Now now, smith vs sachin is one thing , but please don't go to sachin vs hussey or sachin vs stokes. They are laughable comparisons.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Thank you. Now please stick to this.

Please pull up Ashwin's rating points. Has Warne ever touched Ashwin's rating points peak?

Let us all please join me in declaring Ashwin GOAT spinner?

You have to factor in the averages in different conditions as well. Any tom, dick, or harry will know how **** poor Ashwin is outside hom tracks. Now compare Steve Smith or a Kallis who average more than Sachin and did well outside their homes and have more ranking points as well.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Now now, smith vs sachin is one thing , but please don't go to sachin vs hussey or sachin vs stokes. They are laughable comparisons.

You can laugh all you want, I pick players who can win matches and play as a team. I know I can bank on certain people to do the job for me rather than bet on bottlers who will surely fail when chips are down. The joke's on you.

 

[therealAB]

[MENTION=65183]freelance_cricketer[/MENTION]

Refer to this poll for a comparison between Ponting and Chappell in an anglo forum. Chappell just >>>

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/45923-tests-chappell-vs-ponting.html

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Home conditions hugely advantageous.... Not a fair comparison at all

Bhaijaan got everything right but the attitude is as if some players are born to rule while the others are there to serve them with some pies.

 

[therealAB]

Bhaijaan got everything right but the attitude is as if some players are born to rule while the others are there to serve them with some pies.

Yep. Just because a player is modern and flashy doesn't mean he is any better. Sachin can be criticised without people taking it personally. He is not a god

 

[Bhaijaan]

[MENTION=65183]freelance_cricketer[/MENTION]. One last question. If you had a to pick a batsman to score a century on a tricky pitch, would you really pick Sachin.

Absolutely yes. Why do you even ask?

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

agreed. Stature is a function of size of country and aesthetics, not of quality

Many greats like Sangakkara or Kallis don't get due credit not because they lack stature - because they don't have the amazing PR teams that teams like India, Australia command. Unfortunate but hard truth.

 

[anikrc1]

[MENTION=23911]Moh@n[/MENTION]

 

[Bhaijaan]

You have to factor in the averages in different conditions as well. Any tom, dick, or harry will know how **** poor Ashwin is outside hom tracks. Now compare Steve Smith or a Kallis who average more than Sachin and did well outside their homes and have more ranking points as well.

As expected, when I bring Ashwin's rating point into the equation, you want to talk something else.

Bro make an arguement you can back up without ifs and buts.

Two posts ago, rating points was a big thing why are ifs and buts I to the equation now that Ashwin is mentioned who's rating points dwarf other great spinners.

This is good I am loving it .

 

[therealAB]

Many greats like Sangakkara or Kallis don't get due credit not because they lack stature - because they don't have the amazing PR teams that teams like India, Australia command. Unfortunate but hard truth.

Completely agree

 

[Bhaijaan]

So Sachin is a nobody, media made him a star.



Every cricketer whether white black brown or blue has him in his XI but he is a star because 1 billion people.amd Indian media )


The lengths some people can go to put down a giant of the game l

 

[therealAB]

As expected, when I bring Ashwin's rating point into the equation, you want to talk something else.

Bro make an arguement you can back up without ifs and buts.

Two posts ago, rating points was a big thing why are ifs and buts I to the equation now that Ashwin is mentioned who's rating points dwarf other great spinners.

This is good I am loving it .

No I talk about how circumstances affect the average. You have to make an educated call, and Ashwin has prospered massively while Sachin was not negatively effected at all by the conditions. Blindly reading the ICC rankings is stupidity, but I can't see why Sachin's peak was anything special

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Yep. Just because a player is modern and flashy doesn't mean he is any better. Sachin can be criticised without people taking it personally. He is not a god

Exactly. Sachin is easily one of the greatest ever produced. But he had flaws like all others. Against terrific bowlers on a tricky pitch, I may not have confidence in him to deliver the goods.

Even chasing paltry scores he somehow found a way to bottle them - https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16103/scorecard/63747/west-indies-vs-india-3rd-test-india-tour-of-west-indies-1996-97

Just a shame if you considering his aweinspiring strokeplay when on song.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Many greats like Sangakkara or Kallis don't get due credit not because they lack stature - because they don't have the amazing PR teams that teams like India, Australia command. Unfortunate but hard truth.

Theh get their due credit, both of them are among top 10 batsmen of their generation.

 

[therealAB]

Absolutely yes. Why do you even ask?

Witness' lawyer claims acquittal due to insanity defense

 

[therealAB]

Theh get their due credit, both of them are among top 10 batsmen of their generation.

hahah.

Top 5 after Sachin, Lara and Waugh in that order

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

So Sachin is a nobody, media made him a star.



Every cricketer whether white black brown or blue has him in his XI but he is a star because 1 billion people.amd Indian media )


The lengths some people can go to put down a giant of the game l

No one is pulling Sachion down. We're reacting when you're pulling everyone down to raise the short Sachin above them. Understand the difference

 

[therealAB]

Exactly. Sachin is easily one of the greatest ever produced. But he had flaws like all others. Against terrific bowlers on a tricky pitch, I may not have confidence in him to deliver the goods.

Even chasing paltry scores he somehow found a way to bottle them - https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16103/scorecard/63747/west-indies-vs-india-3rd-test-india-tour-of-west-indies-1996-97

Just a shame if you considering his aweinspiring strokeplay when on song.

yep beautiful batsman but doesn't have the mental game of some others

 

[therealAB]

So Sachin is a nobody, media made him a star.



Every cricketer whether white black brown or blue has him in his XI but he is a star because 1 billion people.amd Indian media )


The lengths some people can go to put down a giant of the game l

See what I mean about saying bad things about Sachin. Hell will rain upon you when you insult God. He is a great but for me not as good as Smith. I can pick apart his record without saying he is a potato

 

[Bhaijaan]

[MENTION=65183]freelance_cricketer[/MENTION]. One last question. If you had a to pick a batsman to score a century on a tricky pitch, would you really pick Sachin.

No one is pulling Sachion down. We're reacting when you're pulling everyone down to raise the short Sachin above them. Understand the difference

Clearly visible what you two are doing albeit by embarrassing yourselves to lows it's going to take some days tor weeks o get out of

1. Sachin is a hype because I billion Indians
2. Sachin cannot score runs on tricky pitches

Please get real.

Can either of you even be considered a real fan of the game after such absurd statements?

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

yep beautiful batsman but doesn't have the mental game of some others

When you're dealing with the likes of McGrath, Wasim, Marshall et al, your mental game is tested more than your becutiful batsmanship. No wonder Sachin failed against all of them even at his peak in the 90s. How can I trust him to come good against the very same bowlers now in this draft? He is guaranteed a failure

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Clearly visible what you two are doing albeit by embarrassing yourselves to lows it's going to take some days tor weeks o get out of

1. Sachin is a hype because I billion Indians
2. Sachin cannot score runs on tricky pitches

Please get real.

Can either of you even be considered a real fan of the game after such absurd statements?

Sachin is good. Real good. Easily one of the top 10 batsmen to play the game.

But but but...

1. Sachin is a hype because I billion Indians - yes it is a contributing factor
2. Sachin cannot score runs on tricky pitches - true. Not enough gutsy innings among 200 to prove this wrong.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Sachin is good. Real good. Easily one of the top 10 batsmen to play the game.

But but but...

1. Sachin is a hype because I billion Indians - yes it is a contributing factor
2. Sachin cannot score runs on tricky pitches - true. Not enough gutsy innings among 200 to prove this wrong.

You picked Shane Watson as your test opener bro )

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

You picked Shane Watson as your test opener bro )

What makes you think he will open the innings for me? I may send him lower down the order to feast on chubby Kuldeep

 

[therealAB]

Clearly visible what you two are doing albeit by embarrassing yourselves to lows it's going to take some days tor weeks o get out of

1. Sachin is a hype because I billion Indians
2. Sachin cannot score runs on tricky pitches

Please get real.

Can either of you even be considered a real fan of the game after such absurd statements?

When did I say Sachin cannot score runs on tricky pitches. He has done so many times, just slightly less so than Smith. Please stop saying I do not love the game if I have certain views. Just because I do not say Sachin is the greatest cricketer ever does not mean I am not a cricket fan

 

[therealAB]

What makes you think he will open the innings for me? I may send him lower down the order to feast on chubby Kuldeep

ahaha. Kuldeep will probably flee from the non-spinning pitch, Watson probably won't get to face him

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

When did I say Sachin cannot score runs on tricky pitches. He has done so many times, just slightly less so than Smith. Please stop saying I do not love the game if I have certain views. Just because I do not say Sachin is the greatest cricketer ever does not mean I am not a cricket fan

Sachin played some real beautiful innings in his illustrious career but none match the tenacity or skill level of Smith's Pune century against the highest rated Ashwin )))) or Ashes 2019 against Anderson, Broad, Archer.

 

[Bhaijaan]

What makes you think he will open the innings for me? I may send him lower down the order to feast on chubby Kuldeep

I'm just saying.

I mean there's a guy debating on batting and he's picked Shane Watson as his opener )

Obviously there will be doubts lol

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

I'm just saying.

I mean there's a guy debating on batting and he's picked Shane Watson as his opener )

Obviously there will be doubts lol

Says a guy who picks based on promise and prays to god that they come good )

 

[Bhaijaan]

ahaha. Kuldeep will probably flee from the non-spinning pitch, Watson probably won't get to face him

If Bhaijaan XI play a 5 test series vs FDP, how many runs do you see Shane Watson. Be honest, don't be biased to your debate friend I am your friend too

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

If Bhaijaan XI play a 5 test series vs FDP, how many runs do you see Shane Watson. Be honest, don't be biased to your debate friend I am your friend too

I would love that! Let's wait before making judgements bhaijaan, I still have 139 more tests. I may bat your team out for all you know

 

[Bhaijaan]

Says a guy who picks based on promise and prays to god that they come good )

Hope is a great thing bro, it is all we have.

Always back new talent.

Do you have doubts on my young talent? Please discuss

 

[Bhaijaan]

I would love that! Let's wait before making judgements bhaijaan, I still have 139 more tests. I may bat your team out for all you know

You can take half of [MENTION=151648]therealAB[/MENTION] team on loan and they'd still be outweighed by my 3 top batsmen

Remember bro #StarPower

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

I'm a little disappointed. When you ask him about the gutsy innings of Sachin, he runs out with tails between his legs and starts a discussion about Watson. Not you bhaijaan, I expected better standards from you

 

[Bhaijaan]

ahaha. Kuldeep will probably flee from the non-spinning pitch, Watson probably won't get to face him

Kuldeep isn't a great turner of the ball. He does enough to cut batsmen's defenses, actually chinamen bowlers are safest bets on non friendly surfaces for spin.

Brad Hogg was also on my radar who is a better batsman. Strangely I went with Kuldeep because he turns more than Hogg

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Hope is a great thing bro, it is all we have.

Always back new talent.

Do you have doubts on my young talent? Please discuss

Hope is a great thing, sometimes the best of things. We all had hope on #1 Indian team to at least draw a test in New Zealand, didn't we? How many runs did the young Shaw make? Did he survive the new ball spell by Boult at least? No, right? What makes you think he can survive the likes of Johnson - let along McGraths and Marshalls?

 

[Moh@n]

David Warner

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

I can bet that bhaijaan would have bet on Umar Akmal if this draft was taking place in 2009 and said hope is a great thing. Sometimes I wish I had the guts and courage like him. Pcchh..

 

[Bhaijaan]

Hope is a great thing, sometimes the best of things. We all had hope on #1 Indian team to at least draw a test in New Zealand, didn't we? How many runs did the young Shaw make? Did he survive the new ball spell by Boult at least? No, right? What makes you think he can survive the likes of Johnson - let along McGraths and Marshalls?

How naive are you. It was a two test series the guy came back from injury I think he played kme test?

Every player goes through a patch. You have not seen the best of Shaw. He's brilliant. He's better than Pant, Shubhman,

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Kuldeep isn't a great turner of the ball. He does enough to cut batsmen's defenses, actually chinamen bowlers are safest bets on non friendly surfaces for spin.

Brad Hogg was also on my radar who is a better batsman. Strangely I went with Kuldeep because he turns more than Hogg

India vs England. Lord's 2018. Discuss Kuldeep's spell on that non turning non friendly surface. Please.

 

[maddgenius]

David Warner

Kitne openers khilayega?

 

[therealAB]

You can take half of [MENTION=151648]therealAB[/MENTION] team on loan and they'd still be outweighed by my 3 top batsmen

Remember bro #StarPower

can we move this to other thread

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

How naive are you. It was a two test series the guy came back from injury I think he played kme test?

Every player goes through a patch. You have not seen the best of Shaw. He's brilliant. He's better than Pant, Shubhman,

Unfortunately no one has. Because he hasn't played enough yet. Whatever I've seen of him was in New Zealand earlier this year. Let me trust my eyes more than your words this time. What say bhaijaan?