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Hashim Amla vs Virat Kohli in ODIs

Bilal7 said:
Oh, you're just a troll. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
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trolling? Why is that?
_________________________
Vs Australia avg 29, in Australia avg 31.88.
Vs England avg 62.45, in England 54.33.
Vs India avg 49.88, in India avg 33.73.
Vs NZ avg 53.35, in NZ 55.23.
Vs SA avg 29.75, in SA 26.10.
Vs Sri avg 29.00, in Sri avg 33.80.
Vs WI avg 101.16, in WI 69.75.
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these are definately not world class numbers bru. Again he had a crazy 20 inning where he scored 2000 odd runs at an avg of 100, and thats it. He's a decent player nothing more, not in the same league as Amla.
 
soso_killer said:
trolling? Why is that?
_________________________
Vs Australia avg 29, in Australia avg 31.88.
Vs England avg 62.45, in England 54.33.
Vs India avg 49.88, in India avg 33.73.
Vs NZ avg 53.35, in NZ 55.23.
Vs SA avg 29.75, in SA 26.10.
Vs Sri avg 29.00, in Sri avg 33.80.
Vs WI avg 101.16, in WI 69.75.
________________________

these are definately not world class numbers bru. Again he had a crazy 20 inning where he scored 2000 odd runs at an avg of 100, and thats it. He's a decent player nothing more, not in the same league as Amla.
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How many experts would agree with you? How many would say that Mohammad Yousuf was not a great player?
 
lol @ people calling hashim a choker coz of the 2011 wc semi final...prolly these guys dint watch dat match....sure he failed in dat match technically...but he was unlucky as well....he under-edged a nathan mccullum delivery which instead of bouncing off the ground bounced off of brendon's shoe and popped up and was taken by the 1st slip....if dat isnt unlucky den i donno wat is

sure he failed thru the world t20 last year...den again how is dat a choke...its not like he was smashin everythin in the group stages and suddenly went blank in super 6...but yes he did fail in world t20 no doubt...

as for amla not being a match winner...lol whr did this logic come from...he is a great player under pressure...and is definitely a match winner...

to give one example...he literally almost carried the entire south african inning on his shoulders against eng in eng and scored a 150....sa won dat match....match winning inning...i can go on with more examples
 
Itachi said:
sehwag made 219 and broke tendu's record of 200. Does it mean sehwag > tendu?

You guys are missing the point. I am saying, when it comes to pressure situation, amla fails. He can make 500 in an odi but that even doesn't change this fact. He is not a match winner unlike kohli.
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Are you listening to yourself? Amla made 150 alone in England against a far superior bowling attack. The rest of the SA line-up only made 130 at a slower strike too.

Tell me how is a guy with a higher strike rate, and a higher average, with a better ratio of 100 per innings not a better player/"match winner"? In just 60 odd matches he already has 11 to Kohli's 13 in 90 inns. Get serious dude.
 
Bilal7 said:
How many experts would agree with you? How many would say that Mohammad Yousuf was not a great player?
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define a great player?

In my opinion his overall stats were inflated by those 20 innings. Which is why he has a poor record in most countries. He is a decent player. Anyway he is definately not better than Amla which was my main argument. People can debate among themselves whats decent/good/great or whatever.
 
soso_killer said:
define a great player?

In my opinion his overall stats were inflated by those 20 innings. Which is why he has a poor record in most countries. He is a decent player. Anyway he is definately not better than Amla which was my main argument. People can debate among themselves whats decent/good/great or whatever.
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Your opinion doesn't count, sorry to say. Former players and experts, Pakistani and non-Pakistani have all said that Yousuf was a great player. Comparing him with Amla is unfair because the latter is still playing and is in his prime years. Compare them when Amla retires.
 
Kohli is a much younger player, in only his 4th year of int'l cricket and in only the 3rd year of test cricket. He is yet to reach any where near his peak. Amla is ahead atm because he has reached his peak but Kohli will surpass him in the long run. By the time Kohli reaches Amla's age, he would have broken many records.
 
Bilal7 said:
Your opinion doesn't count, sorry to say. Former players and experts, Pakistani and non-Pakistani have all said that Yousuf was a great player.
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Who are those experts? Are they the ones who said Flinttof was better than Kallis?
Comparing him with Amla is unfair because the latter is still playing and is in his prime years. Compare them when Amla retires.
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anyway i am not demeaning the guy. He is in the mold of VVS but Laxman was more consistent across countries. I would pick him before Yousuf. VVS is a good player not great but good/very good (whatever definition you wanna use). Yousuf is in between that, but he is not better than VVS IMO.
 
soso_killer said:
Who are those experts? Are they the ones who said Flinttof was better than Kallis?


anyway i am not demeaning the guy. He is in the mold of VVS but Laxman was more consistent across countries. I would pick him before Yousuf. VVS is a good player not great but good/very good (whatever definition you wanna use). Yousuf is in between that, but he is not better than VVS IMO.
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You're derailing this thread. Go create one for Amla and Yousuf and we'll continue this over there.
 
Hashim Amla Vs Virat Kohli (ODI)

Right now I would say AB, Amla and Kohli in that order. Feel free to disagree, but it is my opinion. It seems like many Indians don't handle it too well when people don't recognise their batsmen as better than everyone else,
 
Hashim Amla Vs Virat Kohli (ODI)

Itachi said:
sehwag made 219 and broke tendu's record of 200. Does it mean sehwag > tendu?

You guys are missing the point. I am saying, when it comes to pressure situation, amla fails. He can make 500 in an odi but that even doesn't change this fact. He is not a match winner unlike kohli.
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A pointless comparison, considering that it's just one innings, and not a career record which actually demonstrates consistency. In any event, I didn't say that Amla > Viv, but to beat a long term record set by probably the best ODI batsman ever, is pretty special.
 
And I don't think Kohli will be as good as he was in ODIs ever again! He's too much into tests now.. Wants to prove himself there rather than in meaningless Jamodis
 
Itachi said:
Amla can't play in pressure. A true saf. Virat is the man!
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Do you remember how Kohli fared against this bowling attack in pressure situations? And I'm not talking about the Asia cup for obvious reasons.
 
Pretty silly is this notion given that a lot of South Africa's major players have stated that Amla's temperament calms their own nerves down as well.
 
soso_killer said:
But i dont understand what level you are talking about. Amla is already a better player to Yousuf. All i know is he is just a guy who had a crazy 20 innings in Test cricket and scored 2000 odd runs at an average of 100+ second only to Bradman. Else he was another hyped up player, you can look at his record across countries if you like. He was decent nothing more, not in Amla's league, sorry.
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We certainly have acquired a new prime spouter of nonsense on PP.
 
Bilal7 said:
Pretty silly is this notion given that a lot of South Africa's major players have stated that Amla's temperament calms their own nerves down as well.
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silly logic. I feel good when i see a pretty girl. Does it mean she feels the same looking at me?
 
Itachi said:
why not?
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Possibly because the pitch was probably the flattest that we've seen in quite some time. When Hafeez scores a century and Younis strikes at more than 150, you know the pitch is a road.
 
Bilal7 said:
Pretty silly is this notion given that a lot of South Africa's major players have stated that Amla's temperament calms their own nerves down as well.
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This is a point too far, similar to the guy who tried to argue that Amla could make for a good captain because Steyn is 'inspired' by his reading of the Koran. There is support for a player and then there is just nonsense.

Have this debate by all means, but stick to serious and credible inquiry.
 
Itachi said:
silly logic. I feel good when i see a pretty girl. Does it mean she feels the same looking at me?
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LOL!! Your analogies are hilarious. Only a mentally strong player can make other batsmen feel easy at the crease.
 
I've never understood the average Pakistani fan's affiliation with Amla. Is there any other reason, aside from him being Muslim?
 
Bilal7 said:
Possibly because the pitch was probably the flattest that we've seen in quite some time. When Hafeez scores a century and Younis strikes at more than 150, you know the pitch is a road.
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the criteria i gave is pressure, nt pitch or weather or any other factor. Hence irrelevant.
 
James said:
This is a point too far, similar to the guy who tried to argue that Amla could make for a good captain because Steyn is 'inspired' by his reading of the Koran. There is support for a player and then there is just nonsense.

Have this debate by all means, but stick to serious and credible inquiry.
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So you and Itachi know more about Amla's temperament then his own teammates? Its a very valid point.
 
Marshland said:
I've never understood the average Pakistani fan's affiliation with Amla. Is there any other reason, aside from him being Muslim?
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He is one of the best out there, no doubts whatsoever! But you may be right and also considering the player with whom he's being compared to is, ahem ahem, an Indian
 
Marshland said:
I've never understood the average Pakistani fan's affiliation with Amla. Is there any other reason, aside from him being Muslim?
Click to expand...

Aside from averaging 50+ in both formats of the game, being the number one batsman in both formats of the game and being a pleasure to watch, there really is no reason.

Being Muslim does help though.
 
Bilal7 said:
LOL!! Your analogies are hilarious. Only a mentally strong player can make other batsmen feel easy at the crease.
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not necessarily. Even if tendu is scratchy, low on confidence, raina wil feel confident seeing tendu at opposite end. That doesn't automaticaly implies tht x person is mentaly strong. How do i know? From the results.
 
Itachi said:
the criteria i gave is pressure, nt pitch or weather or any other factor. Hence irrelevant.
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So how is it that you discard his innings in the third ODI by claiming that it was a flat track?
 
Bilal7 said:
So you and Itachi know more about Amla's temperament then his own teammates? Its a very valid point.
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What Marshland has said is correct. There are many players out there who conduct themselves professionally, have a useful effect on their team-mates, and average 50. But when it comes to Amla, every positive point that could possibly be yanked out of the poor guy is exploited relentlessly by some of you fellas, just because he is a Muslim and wears a beard. There really is no other palpable reason for this behaviour. At least try and be objective.
 
Itachi said:
not necessarily. Even if tendu is scratchy, low on confidence, raina wil feel confident seeing tendu at opposite end. That doesn't automaticaly implies tht x person is mentaly strong. How do i know? From the results.
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Nope. If Tendu is struggling, the other batsmen will struggle too, especially the inexperienced ones. What results tell you whether or not a batsman is mentally strong?
 
Marshland said:
I've never understood the average Pakistani fan's affiliation with Amla. Is there any other reason, aside from him being Muslim?
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If he was not Muslim, he won't get half the attention he gets now at PP. Nothing against Amla, he is fantastic bat and person.
 
Bilal7 said:
So you and Itachi know more about Amla's temperament then his own teammates? Its a very valid point.
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if you have it, it wil show in field. No one can stop it.

Did it show? Nope. Which means....
 
James said:
What Marshland has said is correct. There are many players out there who conduct themselves professionally, have a useful effect on their team-mates, and average 50. But when it comes to Amla, every positive point that could possibly be yanked out of the poor guy is exploited relentlessly by some of you fellas, just because he is a Muslim and wears a beard. There really is no other palpable reason for this behaviour. At least try and be objective.
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Thats what fans are for. Plus, read the following again:
Aside from averaging 50+ in both formats of the game, being the number one batsman in both formats of the game and being a pleasure to watch, there really is no reason.
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Buffet said:
If he was not Muslim, he won't get half the attention he gets now at PP. Nothing against Amla, he is fantastic bat and person.
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Yeah, this. Maybe the same sentiments exist for the Khawajas and Tahirs of this world as well.
 
Bilal7 said:
Nope. If Tendu is struggling, the other batsmen will struggle too, especially the inexperienced ones. What results tell you whether or not a batsman is mentally strong?
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abcd, dhoni, raina, uv, virat plays and wins the pressure battle. Amla fails it. That's the criteria.
 
Marshland said:
I've never understood the average Pakistani fan's affiliation with Amla. Is there any other reason, aside from him being Muslim?
Click to expand...

No. Wanna fight about it? What affiliation? I don't get this. Amla fans have a more than legitimate claim to debate whether or not he is the best batsman in the world or whatever. What's being Muslim got to Do with anything? How do you know what affiliation any fan has with a particular player? You can't dismiss an opinion just because you think he/she is an 'Ajmalista ' or an 'Amlard'. Their records speak for themselves and their admirers, supporters.
 
Sandeep99 said:
He is one of the best out there, no doubts whatsoever! But you may be right and also considering the player with whom he's being compared to is, ahem ahem, an Indian
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Amla is also of Indian descent, is he not? That's the checkmate right there, he's the Muslim of the two.
 
AfridiRagingBull said:
No. Wanna fight about it? What affiliation? I don't get this. Amla fans have a more than legitimate claim to debate whether or not he is the best batsman in the world or whatever. What's being Muslim got to Do with anything? How do you know what affiliation any fan has with a particular player? You can't dismiss an opinion just because you think he/she is an 'Ajmalista ' or an 'Amlard'. Their records speak for themselves and their admirers, supporters.
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Relax, I mean no offense at all. I'm just trying to read between the lines, that's all.
 
convenient how we're judging batsmen on their ability to handle pressure rather than their ability to bat. In that case kohli > bradman probably too, why not?

Did anyone see kohli bat against the slightest bit of nagging movement from Jkhan? Looked like a tailender.

Amla MILES and MILES ahead. When a bowler starts pushing him around like Junaid Khan did to Kohli, then I'll humbly take back this statement.

Amla dominates bowlers indiscriminately. Kohli struggles against quality bowling.
 
amla failed in this match .still i think amla is better than kohli .having said this kohli isnt that far below
 
Buffet said:
If he was not Muslim, he won't get half the attention he gets now at PP. Nothing against Amla, he is fantastic bat and person.
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Yes, I mean, that's not like Amla's averaging 58 @ SR +90 in ODIs, tops the ICC rankings right now or is the fastest to get 3000 runs in the format, a bit ahead of the best ODI bat ever, Sir Viv Richards.
All of that doing in a country like SA where it's the easiest to face the new ball for an opener, as probably all know.

Hyped, much.

(I'm not even talking of Tests, there's no competition right now, one got a 300 against the best Test bowling attack in their own backyard, but the other is still too young to judge, even if many other "legends" never crossed the +300 mark, let alone away.)
 
Itachi said:
no pressure, in came the superb innings.
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No pressure? Saffers were 2 down for 28 after the first ten overs, with the ball swinging and bouncing off the pitch.

What about his innings in the second innings of the Cape Town test? Or the one against Australia in the 47 all out one?
 
Marshland said:
Yeah, this. Maybe the same sentiments exist for the Khawajas and Tahirs of this world as well.
Click to expand...

They just need to play some good cricket then you will see them put on very high pedestal. PPers don't get opportunity to express that sentiments because those two are not playing even average cricket.

Amla is great guy and very good batsman but being a Muslim put him in different league at PP. I don't have any issue with it but that's a reality. But some time bringing religion in sports is weird.

I remember one Pakistani batsmen was apologetic to all Muslim in world after losing to India in WC or may be some other important game. That was extremely weird thing to see. If a player in national team can have such views then it's not surprising that an average PPers will put Amla on different league after he give then opportunity with his good performances.
 
Buffet said:
They just need to play some good cricket then you will see them put on very high pedestal. PPers don't get opportunity to express that sentiments because those two are not playing even average cricket.

Amla is great guy and very good batsman but being a Muslim put him in different league at PP. I don't have any issue with it but that's a reality. But some time bringing religion in sports is weird.

I remember one Pakistani batsmen was apologetic to all Muslim in world after losing to India in WC or may be some other important game. That was extremely weird thing to see. If a player in national team can have such views then it's not surprising that an average PPers will put Amla on different league after he give then opportunity with his good performances.
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disgraceful! At least he could have said sorry to his country :facepalm:
 
akheR said:
Yes, I mean, that's not like Amla's averaging 58 @ SR +90 in ODIs, tops the ICC rankings right now or is the fastest to get 3000 runs in the format, a bit ahead of the best ODI bat ever, Sir Viv Richards.
All of that doing in a country like SA where it's the easiest to face the new ball for an opener, as probably all know.

Hyped, much.

(I'm not even talking of Tests, there's no competition right now, one got a 300 against the best Test bowling attack in their own backyard, but the other is still too young to judge, even if many other "legends" never crossed the +300 mark, let alone away.)
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No one denies that but it's clear case of Amla being put on different pedestal due to being a Muslim. If he was a non Muslim then most will still appreciate his batting because he is class but we wouldn't have seen this extra support based on religion. You will notice that most non Pakistani fans rate Amla very high and like him a lot but they don't go overboard with coming up with some non existing scenarios to put him on different pedestal. Even a Paksitani fan in same page acknowledged that being Muslim helped.
 
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Buffet said:
No one denies that but it's clear case of Amla being put on different pedestal due to being a Muslim. If he was a non Muslim then most will still appreciate his batting because he is class but we wouldn't have seen this extra support based on religion.
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True.
The extra credit will always come cuz he is from non Indian team and most def cuz he is a muslim.

But Amla, as u pointed out, is indeed class.
 
Bilal7 said:
No pressure? Saffers were 2 down for 28 after the first ten overs, with the ball swinging and bouncing off the pitch.

What about his innings in the second innings of the Cape Town test? Or the one against Australia in the 47 all out one?
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i don't know what test innings doing here when the thread is about odi (see the title).
 
AfridiRagingBull said:
No. Wanna fight about it? What affiliation? I don't get this. Amla fans have a more than legitimate claim to debate whether or not he is the best batsman in the world or whatever. What's being Muslim got to Do with anything? How do you know what affiliation any fan has with a particular player? You can't dismiss an opinion just because you think he/she is an 'Ajmalista ' or an 'Amlard'. Their records speak for themselves and their admirers, supporters.
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Grrrrrrrr outrage :bumble
 
Buffet said:
They just need to play some good cricket then you will see them put on very high pedestal. PPers don't get opportunity to express that sentiments because those two are not playing even average cricket.

Amla is great guy and very good batsman but being a Muslim put him in different league at PP. I don't have any issue with it but that's a reality. But some time bringing religion in sports is weird.

I remember one Pakistani batsmen was apologetic to all Muslim in world after losing to India in WC or may be some other important game. That was extremely weird thing to see. If a player in national team can have such views then it's not surprising that an average PPers will put Amla on different league after he give then opportunity with his good performances.
Click to expand...

I first started picking up the cue when some here alleged discrimination of Usman Khawaja on the lines of former nationality/religion. I hope the events of the Australian tour have shown that it is anything but. Amla is of course, the other prime example.
 
Buffet said:
No one denies that but it's clear case of Amla being put on different pedestal due to being a Muslim. If he was a non Muslim then most will still appreciate his batting because he is class but we wouldn't have seen this extra support based on religion. You will notice that most non Pakistani fans rate Amla very high and like him a lot but they go overboard with coming up with some non existing scenarios to put him on different pedestal. Even a Paksitani fan in same page acknowledged that being Muslim helped.
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Does ABD who is at least in the same league as Amla get as much attention as Amla? I don't think so. There can only be one explanation.
 
ABD is in the same league of Amla for sure, perhaps even better in ODIs... Amla's grace is unmatched though!
 
Bilal7 said:
So Amla has temperament in tests but not in ODIs, seriously?
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duh! Test and odi are two different world. Otherwise hilfenhaus, philander would have been world beater(in odi) or malinga > steyn(in test). Dravid couldn't save a spot in odi team.
 
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Bilal7 said:
So Amla has temperament in tests but not in ODIs, seriously?
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After being clearly pointed out that is ODI thread, you still have the cheek to come with that comment ?


Are you really that dumb ? Seriously ??
 
James said:
de Villiers is perhaps even better.
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Definitely ABD better player in ODIs . Amla much better in test.

btw going by the SA LO history most of the SAfrican players fails in pressure situation.

Amla is a fantastic player overall but not up to mark in pressure situation.
 
coca-cola said:
convenient how we're judging batsmen on their ability to handle pressure rather than their ability to bat. In that case kohli > bradman probably too, why not?

Did anyone see kohli bat against the slightest bit of nagging movement from Jkhan? Looked like a tailender.

Amla MILES and MILES ahead. When a bowler starts pushing him around like Junaid Khan did to Kohli, then I'll humbly take back this statement.

Amla dominates bowlers indiscriminately. Kohli struggles against quality bowling.
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Rubbish post.
It was NOT slightest bit, there was a LOT of movement, those pitches were the toughest to bat on. SA pitches were better.
Amla has struggled against Mohd. Irfan. When and how did Amla dominate him?
 
Itachi said:
duh! Test and odi are two different world. Otherwise hilfenhaus, philander would have been world beater(in odi) or malinga > steyn(in test). Dravid couldn't save a spot in odi team.
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See, when we're talking about performance in presssure situations, it doesn't matter whether its a test, ODI or even a T20. Mentally strong players will succeed in pressure situations, mentally weak ones will fail. Philander, Steyn and Dravid did not have the skill and ability to succeed in the shorter format and thus were poor. Had nothing to do with temperament.
 
:facepalm:

The slightest bit of movement and the pitches become the worst to bat on?

No, sir, those pitches were nothing against SA or england pitches.

It's not because you're used to see phatta indian wickets that those were the most favourable conditions ever.
 
Bilal7 said:
See, when we're talking about performance in presssure situations, it doesn't matter whether its a test, ODI or even a T20. Mentally strong players will succeed in pressure situations, mentally weak ones will fail. Philander, Steyn and Dravid did not have the skill and ability to succeed in the shorter format and thus were poor. Had nothing to do with temperament.
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lol. You stil didn't get it.

In test, you need to survive.

In odi, you need to survive + make runs to reach the target inside limited balls.

Amla lacks the 2nd factor.
 
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It is pretty silly to question Amla's temperament in light of what he has acheived in the last two years. Ricky Ponting himself lauded the manner in which Amla changed the gears and took the initiative in an almost Australian way in the Peth test last year. People maybe wrongly assume that Amla is mentally susceptible just because he does not show much of an attitude on the field.
 
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