[VIDEOS] Mohammed Shami - An underrated star in all formats

[Junaids]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] anything on this one? Looks like you intentionally missed this post.

You are saying that Waqar had a worse average than Bhuvi Kumar in England and South Africa.

South Africa was banned from Tests until 1993. Pakistan played 1 Test there before Waqar played there in 97-98 when he was almost certainly around 33 years old - and he missed that 1994-95 Test.

So his performance there was meaningless.

He played 10 Tests in England. He averaged 25 in 1992 when recovering from stress fractures and 26 in 1996.

His average is distorted by playing the 2001 series as captain when he was at least 35 and averaged 35.

But Waqar was according to pretty much universal opinion the best player in county cricket in England in the 1990’s.

So the mediocre averages to which you refer are distorted by performances long after his peak.

 

[tyron_woodley]

the only reason pakistan had better records in england and new zeland was due to country cricket. Indians don't go overseas to play county. That should be factored too.

Pakistani bowlers had plenty of experience playing county whilst Indians dint.

 

[Rajdeep]

You are saying that Waqar had a worse average than Bhuvi Kumar in England and South Africa.

South Africa was banned from Tests until 1993. Pakistan played 1 Test there before Waqar played there in 97-98 when he was almost certainly around 33 years old - and he missed that 1994-95 Test.

So his performance there was meaningless.

He played 10 Tests in England. He averaged 25 in 1992 when recovering from stress fractures and 26 in 1996.

His average is distorted by playing the 2001 series as captain when he was at least 35 and averaged 35.

But Waqar was according to pretty much universal opinion the best player in county cricket in England in the 1990’s.

So the mediocre averages to which you refer are distorted by performances long after his peak.

I am not saying anything bruv, its your hatred for India that is clouting your judgement unfortunately. You claimed Fahim Ashraf is a better bowler than Mohammed Shami based on stats in Eng and Aust. @Jeetsaxena did exact same analysis as yours and found Bhuvi Kumar has better stats than Waqar, which you deliberately ignored bcoz it didnt fit your agenda. Nitpicking of stats can be misleading and I expected you of all posters to realize this considering the knowledge of cricket you potray here.

 

[Bhaijaan]

But neither McGrath nor Shami has ever performed at the business end of a World Cup. Neither has ever taken a five wicket haul in the Semis or Final.

Gary Gilmour took 6-14 in the 1975 Semi-Final and 5-48 in the Final. In an attack alongside Lillee and Thomson.

Gary Gilmour is so far ahead of any other bowler in World Cup history that I doubt that he will ever be caught up.

Sadly true but I think players who lead their respective teams campaigns till the business end should be regarded highly regardless of if they fail in the final/af. I mean unless you're part of a Chicago Bulls, Aussie 2000s, WI 1970s dynasty a semi and final like thay could well be just 1-2 matches from your entire career if 10-15 years.

I will be honest to admit however Shami is wicket taking but he is not tear away quick like Starc, Bond.

He's been terrific though. We always compare with the best there's always a guy doing better but think of all the names Shami has eclipsed? If not too 3 he's easily top 5 and still ahead of many top names

To put it in perspective, Waqar is a nobody in world cups.

 

[Rajdeep]

And btw [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION], I didnt even knew much who Faheem Ashraf is. Just checked and this dude played only 4 test matches

You were flaunting Faheem Ashraf's bowling avg of 29 in Eng.

Pandya avgs 24 in Eng with 1 5'fer.

So Pandya > Waqar, Shami, Bhuvi, Faheem etc as per your logic??

Calm down dude

 

[Junaids]

And btw [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION], I didnt even knew much who Faheem Ashraf is. Just checked and this dude played only 4 test matches

You were flaunting Faheem Ashraf's bowling avg of 29 in Eng.

Pandya avgs 24 in Eng with 1 5'fer.

So Pandya > Waqar, Shami, Bhuvi, Faheem etc as per your logic??

Calm down dude

That’s funny, I should explain that my post was a sort of encoded troll.

Faheem is the Pakistani Pandiya, except he bats worse and bowls better.

And his poor white ball performances mean that on this forum “Faheem Ashraf” is like a way of saying “garbage”. So pointing put that Shami has bowled worse than Faheem in England and South Africa is like a dog whistle.

 

[tyron_woodley]

btw bhuvi kumar is a better test bowler than all Pakistani quicks post 2010. He also had better stats than some so called ATG bowlers. He is severly underrated. So is shami.

Hatred for india clouds the judgement of some good posters on PP.

umesh has better stats in Asia than many ATGs.

In subcontinent it's always been the subcontinent bowlers from india and Pakistan that had the best stats apart from mcgrath and steyn plus a few others from pre 90 era.

 

[Rajdeep]

That’s funny, I should explain that my post was a sort of encoded troll.

Faheem is the Pakistani Pandiya, except he bats worse and bowls better.

And his poor white ball performances mean that on this forum “Faheem Ashraf” is like a way of saying “garbage”. So pointing put that Shami has bowled worse than Faheem in England and South Africa is like a dog whistle.

Interesting. Glad I managed to made you accept it

 

[Slog]

Yeah, good that Amir played cricket and ultimately got exposed, otherwise he would have also been great by many over here. Posters here won't rate Bumrah because he has not got a lot of wickets but expect Asif, Gul and Sarfaraz to be mentioned in the list.

Amir’s tear record even before the ban wasn’t all that mind blowing. There’s no comparison between the two in that format. Besides Asif had a longer pedigree in test cricket anyway.

 

[MenInG]

For every high in Mohammad Shami’s curious career, the India pacer has also witnessed several distressing lows. Be it the recurrent career-threatening knee injuries or the domestic violence allegations that played havoc with his personal life, Shami has always been able to script a comeback on the cricket field. A crucial member of the India team in all three formats now, Shami spoke on his battle with depression and how he envisions cricket post the COVID-19 pandemic.

Excerpts:

Q: How have you coped with absolutely no cricket in the last three months?

A: Well, I have been staying at my home in Sahaspur village in Amroha (near Moradabad) the entire time. I have constructed a small academy where I have been training. My younger brother Mohammed Kaif, who is also a fast bowler like me and plays in the Bengal U-23 team, also trains with me. I have taken the fitness schedules from the team physio and doing everything I can to attain fitness standards international cricket demands. I have been lucky that way that I had my own ground to keep myself fit.

Q: Tell us about your village. How has the pandemic affected it?

A: Around 5000 people live here. And they were struggling to make a living during the lockdown. My family and I tried to help them as much as we could. We have been providing food to the poor. I think that’s the least humanity we can show in these troubled times. My grandfather (Mohammed Anis) and my father (Mohammed Taufeeq) have a legacy in this village. Our family has always served the people.

Q: You recently mentioned contemplating suicide when you were going through a difficult phase in your domestic life. Can you take us through that phase? How did you deal with it?

A: Depression is a problem that needs attention. It was unfortunate to see such a brilliant actor like Sushant Singh Rajput lose his life. He was a friend and I wish I could talk to him had I known about his mental condition. In my case, my family pulled me out of that low phase. They took care of me and made me realise that I needed to fight back. There were times I felt suicidal but my family ensured I was never alone. Someone or the other would always be around, talking to me. Spirituality also helps you seek answers. Talking to your close ones or counseling is the best way out.

Q: How difficult is it to deal with mental demons while performing at the top level? How did the team support you during that phase?

A: Mental pressure definitely interferes in your physical wellbeing. At the same time, if you seek help from others and talk about it, you can get rid of such issues off the field. I was lucky to have the team’s support staff along with Virat Kohli and other players backing me. We are like a family. My team mates always insisted I vent my anger and frustration out on the field. I am happy that phase is over.

Q: With cricket set to resume, how big a setback will be the saliva ban?

A: It is true that shining the ball with saliva does play a role in getting the ball to reverse swing. It might affect it to a certain extent. Bowlers need to prepare in a different way now. But this rule won’t be a permanent one I am sure. Everyone will have to adjust to this new rule. It remains to be seen how bowlers will practise and prepare for this. Things will be clearer when we are given guidelines by the BCCI and train accordingly before matches. Bowlers will lose out on some advantages for sure, but there is no point moping. Perhaps the pitches could be prepared to give some advantage to bowlers.

Q: India will play a Test series in Australia in December. How are you planning for it?

A: I don’t plan much for the future. I had a great Test series against Australia back in 2018-19. I enjoy bowling on Australian pitches and putting pressure on the batsmen. We will have to see what kind of pitches are prepared and then plan accordingly.

Q: How has it been bowling alongside Jasprit Bumrah in different formats?

A: I am lucky to have Bumrah bowling from the other end. His accuracy and pace is just spot on. We talk a lot off the field and on the field too. We understand each other’s strengths and adjust well according to the conditions. Bowling alongside him actually works quite well for me. When the batsmen are trying to negate his pace, I come in to bowl and surprise them with my swing. Bumrah is a tremendous bowler and I learn a lot from him.

Q: Irrespective of the format, you almost always raise your game when needed. How do you do that?

A: The aim is to keep calm and just focus on bowling a correct line and length. When you do so and not take extra pressure, results come automatically. Test cricket is the most challenging. When you take wickets on the fourth or the fifth day for your team, the feeling is amazing.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...ammed-shami/story-XNuReFzVDbc9ejKJ6GGU7H.html

 

[Bhaijaan]

Sad that at the peak of his power, Mohammad Shami is not able to play enough tests cricket.

Hands down, the greatest and most complete bowler of this generation.

 

[Ab Fan]

Nope bro. From his era, he is 6th best bowler of his generation behind Rabada, Cummins, Starc, Bumrah and Boult all formats combined.

 

[MenInG]

As Kings XI Punjab skipper KL Rahul elected to field first after winning the toss on a Dubai pitch that had a tinge of grass on it, all eyes were immediately on the pace duo of Sheldon Cottrell and Mohammed Shami. Delhi Capitals have a strong batting line-up and these two men needed to be on the money to ensure their opponents were not off to a big start.


While Cottrell started well by giving just 5 runs in the opening over, Mohammed Shami looked like a man on a mission as he bowled with pace and verve. Shami’s first over produced just two runs including the run out of opener Shikhar Dhawan.

Such was the discipline with which Shami bowled that it forced the otherwise composed Prithvi Shaw to play a false shot in the next over as Shami picked up his first wicket of the match. West Indian Shimron Hetmyer dispatched Shami for a boundary on the next delivery, but the Indian paceman bowled an outstanding delivery into the body of the hard hitter, which took a leading edge of the bat and was caught at covers.

Shami’s twin strikes stunned the Delhi dressing room. DC skipper Shreyas Iyer repaired the innings along with Rishabh Pant and just when it looked that he would shift his gears and push for the big hits, Shami came back to dismiss him to peg Delhi further back.

He ended the innings with figures of 3/15, which are his best ever in IPL. Yes, Mohammed Shami produced his best ever IPL spell against his old team, beating his previous best of 3/21, which he had picked up for KXIP against Mumbai Indians last season

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...ll-at-dubai/story-t2GmKLrzE1JqpJjIghRkfJ.html

 

[tyron_woodley]

Nope bro. From his era, he is 6th best bowler of his generation behind Rabada, Cummins, Starc, Bumrah and Boult all formats combined.

he is better than boult easiy. Boult has achieved absolutely nothing in australia, sub continent etc. He is a conditions specific bowler.

he is also better than starc in tests. Starc is a fraud in subcontinent especially in india.

 

[JattMaula]

Shami in rhythm is a sight to see.

 

[Ab Fan]

he is better than boult easiy. Boult has achieved absolutely nothing in australia, sub continent etc. He is a conditions specific bowler.

he is also better than starc in tests. Starc is a fraud in subcontinent especially in india.

Brilliant bowler. 8/10.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

When on song, he is in the top 3 bowlers bracket for me. Beautiful to watch.

 

[MP2011]

Shami has lost quite a bit of weight.

 

[shamaan]

When on song, he is in the top 3 bowlers bracket for me. Beautiful to watch.

Better than bumra

 

[Ab Fan]

Hopefully, Shami bhai plays for 3-4 years more and take 300+ test wickets.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Has a good action too and not injury prone.

 

[Bhaijaan]

All formats combined, he's hands down the greatest fast bowler of this generation.


I said this two years ago and people laughed. Today some people have started acknowledging it and 5 years from now more people will say they wish they had accepted this earlier.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Hopefully, Shami bhai plays for 3-4 years more and take 300+ test wickets.

Inshah Allah.

He's a superior version of Michael Holding in this generation.

 

[Ab Fan]

Inshah Allah.

He's a superior version of Michael Holding in this generation.

Ofcourse he is. It would have been real pleasure watching Mohammad Shami wreck havoc in 80s and 90s era.

 

[ufcfan]

Still can't believe Kohli dropped him against NZ in all important WC SF

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

Inshah Allah.

He's a superior version of Michael Holding in this generation.

Even though Holding looked more athletic because of his body length and his Jamaican genes, he had a similar approach and action to what Shami has today.
It is also surprising how much lift Shami gets, despite being just 5'10.

Holding would have been a different beast today though, given the amount of knowledge and optimisation that athletes have compared to his time.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

Ofcourse he is. It would have been real pleasure watching Mohammad Shami wreck havoc in 80s and 90s era.

He wouldn't have been this good then.
His body strength, fitness have all been acquired over time and he has become the beast that he is only in the last 3,4 years after going through the initial grind.
Most of that is down to the knowledge and expertise that are available to him now, which weren't available to Holding and co in the 80's.

Back then, you needed to be an incredibly durable athlete, or someone lucky to just have a naturally correct action, as very rarely did players have the opportunity to optimize their mechanics, skills and lifestyles the way they can do today.
Even batsmen back then, aside from no helmets, didnt have access to bowling machines which is why they ****ed their pants when facing fast bowling, due to undertrained reflexes.

 

[JaDed]

Amazing to know he has opened an academy, love that modern Indian cricketers give back to the game hopefully Zaheer, Kumble and Shami can open one together at national level, they were the smartest Indian bowlers in the last 2 decades.

Hopefully below can continue

I am lucky to have Bumrah bowling from the other end. His accuracy and pace is just spot on. We talk a lot off the field and on the field too. We understand each other’s strengths and adjust well according to the conditions. Bowling alongside him actually works quite well for me. When the batsmen are trying to negate his pace, I come in to bowl and surprise them with my swing. Bumrah is a tremendous bowler and I learn a lot from him.

 

[Smbhayi]

Has a good action too and not injury prone.

Didn't he had couple of injuries? One i remember after world cup (2015 iirc) in which he got 1 cr due to his dedication..

 

[Smbhayi]

Didn't he had couple of injuries? One i remember after world cup (2015 iirc) in which he got 1 cr due to his dedication..

It's 2.2 cr..
Mohammed Shami's reward for dedication to India: Rs. 2.2 crore

 

[therealAB]

Inshah Allah.

He's a superior version of Michael Holding in this generation.

Why has Holding performed so much better. Shami is good but he’s not half the bowler holding was

 

[tyron_woodley]

Still can't believe Kohli dropped him against NZ in all important WC SF

biggest blunder ever by kohli. also dhawan injury**. man that killed us. dhawan and shami would have finished the job vs n.z and englund.

 

[DRsohail]

A good test bowler but age is not on his aide and a decent odi bowler.

 

[DRsohail]

All formats combined, he's hands down the greatest fast bowler of this generation.


I said this two years ago and people laughed. Today some people have started acknowledging it and 5 years from now more people will say they wish they had accepted this earlier.

waw the greatest, too much.

 

[Bhaijaan]

waw the greatest, too much.

There is Cummins, Starc, Hazzlewood, Rabada, Amir, Boult, Southee in competition.

All 3 formats combined, Shami is the best.

 

[Ab Fan]

He wouldn't have been this good then.
His body strength, fitness have all been acquired over time and he has become the beast that he is only in the last 3,4 years after going through the initial grind.
Most of that is down to the knowledge and expertise that are available to him now, which weren't available to Holding and co in the 80's.

Back then, you needed to be an incredibly durable athlete, or someone lucky to just have a naturally correct action, as very rarely did players have the opportunity to optimize their mechanics, skills and lifestyles the way they can do today.
Even batsmen back then, aside from no helmets, didnt have access to bowling machines which is why they ****ed their pants when facing fast bowling, due to undertrained reflexes.

You have greats for each era. Even after having more expertise and knowledge, there are hardly many great fast bowlers in modern era. With more expertise, batsmen know how to deal with the threat, things eventually get cancelled out.

 

[MenInG]

Purple cap holder at IPL 2020 - doing well so far

 

[Bhaijaan]

Why has Holding performed so much better. Shami is good but he’s not half the bowler holding was

Holding bowled against batsmen who had no helmets.

Shami would average 20 or below in 1970s-80s.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

He's still performing so well even for a 37 year old.

 

[BreadPakoda]

He's still performing so well even for a 37 year old.

Ha. I see what you did there. Shami is a youngsta beauty.

 

[Bhaijaan]

By Gawd!!!

The guy defended 5 runs in super over against a stud batting pair.

Greatest of this era, all formats combined, hands down

 

[tyron_woodley]

Hell yea. Legendary player. What a champion he is. My god. Put some respect on this name. Forget about bumrah who we know is a great bowler. Shami himself is an ATG.

If Shami had played for India in the late 90s to 2003 era then India would have been hard to beat even for the ATG Aussie side. Shami and Srinath damnn together in tandem.

 

[Ab Fan]

By Gawd!!!

The guy defended 5 runs in super over against a stud batting pair.

Greatest of this era, all formats combined, hands down

One of the finest the game has ever produced.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Please don't retire. 5 more years please legend.

Biggest blundering birdbrained decision by Kohli was to drop him for the world cup semi finals in 2019.

What's even funnier is Shami destroyed n.z in n.z the year before in the bilateral series and helped India win 4-1 ROFL.

Dumbo Kohli cost us a world cup. Better make it up in 2023.

 

[The Viper]

India pacer Mohammed Shami is unlikely to play the opening Test against England in February as a six-week rest cum rehabilitation programme awaits him after suffering a wrist fracture. The fast bowler suffered the fracture on his bowling hand during the series-opening day-night Test against Australia in Adelaide last week.

Shami was hit on the elbow by a Pat Cummins short ball during India's second innings last Saturday, which ended at a record lowest score of 36 for nine at the Adelaide Oval. He was taken to a hospital for scans, which revealed a fracture.

"He is not likely to play the first Test versus England as rest and rehab will take six weeks. Once the plaster is off, he will do his rehab at the NCA (National Cricket Academy in Bengaluru)," a BCCI source was quoted by PTI.

 

[Junaids]

So his Test career in Australia comes to an end with a bowling average there of 32.16.

Which is better than his averages of:

47.04 in England
35.60 in New Zealand.

There has been a lot of talk in recent months of him being significantly better than he actually is. The reality is that he is a 30 year old man with a mediocre record in Australia (after 8 Tests) and a terrible record in England (8 Tests) and a poor one in New Zealand (4 Tests).

Poor record in a historically weak batting era.

 

[Bewal Express]

Please don't retire. 5 more years please legend.

Biggest blundering birdbrained decision by Kohli was to drop him for the world cup semi finals in 2019.

What's even funnier is Shami destroyed n.z in n.z the year before in the bilateral series and helped India win 4-1 ROFL.

Dumbo Kohli cost us a world cup. Better make it up in 2023.

The reason Kohli never trusted him is that he is flaky.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

So his Test career in Australia comes to an end with a bowling average there of 32.16.

Which is better than his averages of:

47.04 in England
35.60 in New Zealand.

There has been a lot of talk in recent months of him being significantly better than he actually is. The reality is that he is a 30 year old man with a mediocre record in Australia (after 8 Tests) and a terrible record in England (8 Tests) and a poor one in New Zealand (4 Tests).

Poor record in a historically weak batting era.

Having never looked into shami’s statistical record, that’s pretty bad. I’ve always liked him, but...

 

[Rana]

Recently he was bowling gun barrel straight.

 

[tyron_woodley]

One of the best bowlers of the modern era.

Blasphemy by the tard Kohli to not play him in the world cup semi final.

 

[Slog]

Having never looked into shami’s statistical record, that’s pretty bad. I’ve always liked him, but...

Yea pretty shocked myself.

His home average is 21 and away record is mediocre asides from Sri Lanka which is again india type conditions.

Very interesting and curious to know how a fast bowler is killing it in seemingly difficult conditions but struggling so bad in what should be more supportive conditions

 

[Ab Fan]

Yea pretty shocked myself.

His home average is 21 and away record is mediocre asides from Sri Lanka which is again india type conditions.

Very interesting and curious to know how a fast bowler is killing it in seemingly difficult conditions but struggling so bad in what should be more supportive conditions

Because Shami averaged 35 in his first tour to Australia on some absolute pattas in the 2014/15 tour where everyone and its dog was hitting hundreds for fun and it was good stat in that country in terms of context.

So, basically Shami has done brilliant in Australia, South Africa(24), West Indies(22) and everywhere else except England and New Zealand

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

So his Test career in Australia comes to an end with a bowling average there of 32.16.

Which is better than his averages of:

47.04 in England
35.60 in New Zealand.

There has been a lot of talk in recent months of him being significantly better than he actually is. The reality is that he is a 30 year old man with a mediocre record in Australia (after 8 Tests) and a terrible record in England (8 Tests) and a poor one in New Zealand (4 Tests).

Poor record in a historically weak batting era.

An average of 32 in australia is very good considering the amount of flat pattas they serve these days.
Also what about his average of 24 in South Africa.
The reality is that he is a 30 year old bowler with an overall average of 27 in a difficult era for bowling, which puts him in the same bracket as players like Morkel,Johnson and Boult.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Yea pretty shocked myself.

His home average is 21 and away record is mediocre asides from Sri Lanka which is again india type conditions.

Very interesting and curious to know how a fast bowler is killing it in seemingly difficult conditions but struggling so bad in what should be more supportive conditions

sG ball. Bro.

Ball makes a difference.

 

[Mobashir]

He is so over-rated these days. At best a good bowler. The only good team he has a good record against is SA and we all know they are in the worst phase of their career.

I have probably watched his whole career, can't remember once he has bowled a match changing spell.

 

[DRsohail]

An average of 32 in australia is very good considering the amount of flat pattas they serve these days.
Also what about his average of 24 in South Africa.
The reality is that he is a 30 year old bowler with an overall average of 27 in a difficult era for bowling, which puts him in the same bracket as players like Morkel,Johnson and Boult.

Surely a good bowler but not one of the best.

 

[DRsohail]

Hell yea. Legendary player. What a champion he is. My god. Put some respect on this name. Forget about bumrah who we know is a great bowler. Shami himself is an ATG.

If Shami had played for India in the late 90s to 2003 era then India would have been hard to beat even for the ATG Aussie side. Shami and Srinath damnn together in tandem.

Oh man he is a good bowler but not an ATG at all.

 

[Slog]

He is so over-rated these days. At best a good bowler. The only good team he has a good record against is SA and we all know they are in the worst phase of their career.

I have probably watched his whole career, can't remember once he has bowled a match changing spell.

I guess you don’t watch Indian hone tests

 

[tyron_woodley]

He is so over-rated these days. At best a good bowler. The only good team he has a good record against is SA and we all know they are in the worst phase of their career.

I have probably watched his whole career, can't remember once he has bowled a match changing spell.

That's just pure hate talking as usual.
He is one of the best bowlers of this era. He would be good in any era.

When did Starc, Hazelwood perform in India or hell even Asia?
Yea they performed vs Bangladesh.

So all these Sena overrated bowlers are trash outside their little bubble.

Shami performs well everywhere. He only has been bad in England and n.z

He is not a swing bowler so obviously it's understandable.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Oh man he is a good bowler but not an ATG at all.

He is an AtG WHEN HE RETIRES. he is one of the best bowlers in the world. Period.

When chootys from Sena perform in India or Pakistan then they can compare themselves to being an ATG. At least Shami performed in Australia and South Africa.

South Africa weren't bad at all when he performed. They had de Villiers and co plus their best bowling attack in 2017. Shami performed exceptionally well there.

Same south Africa that obliterated and butchered Pakistani team into Tukda Tukda pieces without de Villiers and rabada who missed the second test.

 

[Slog]

He is an AtG WHEN HE RETIRES. he is one of the best bowlers in the world. Period.

When chootys from Sena perform in India or Pakistan then they can compare themselves to being an ATG. At least Shami performed in Australia and South Africa.

South Africa weren't bad at all when he performed. They had de Villiers and co plus their best bowling attack in 2017. Shami performed exceptionally well there.

Same south Africa that obliterated and butchered Pakistani team into Tukda Tukda pieces without de Villiers and rabada who missed the second test.

Lol at ATG. Shami is not an ATG right now.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Lol at ATG. Shami is not an ATG right now.

Ok.

 

[Slog]

Ok.

I hope you’re trolling man because generally you have legitimately sound views

 

[tyron_woodley]

I hope you’re trolling man because generally you have legitimately sound views

He is almost there. Well his career isn't over yet. He can get there. I just can't figure out how old he is though.

 

[Slog]

He is almost there. Well his career isn't over yet. He can get there. I just can't figure out how old he is though.

He has done very well for india but he also has many issues with his record right now and at this age I do not see him rectifying that to be considered an ATG. Even in India itself while he has taken a lot of wickets which have led to an ATG-level bowling stats at home; you can say he has operated and thrived on the pressure created by others on many of his best spells.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Because Shami averaged 35 in his first tour to Australia on some absolute pattas in the 2014/15 tour where everyone and its dog was hitting hundreds for fun and it was good stat in that country in terms of context.

So, basically Shami has done brilliant in Australia, South Africa(24), West Indies(22) and everywhere else except England and New Zealand

Is Kohli everyone or the dog?

 

[Ab Fan]

Is Kohli everyone or the dog?

In 2014-15 series, Shami averaged 35 but he took more wickets than any other pacer from both sides.

Shami 3 tests, 15 wickets, AVG 35
Harris 3 tests, 10 wickets, AVG 33
Johnson 3 tests, 13 wickets, AVG 35
Hazelwood 3 tests, 12 wickets, AVG 29
Starc 2 tests, 7 wickets, AVG 36

Ishant 3 matches,9 wickets, AVG 48
Yadav 3 matches, 11 wickets, AVG 50
Aaron AVG 68

These stats show that Shami was as good as any pacer from both sides in that series, those guys had support, he didn't.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Shami is definitely not 30. I think he's 36-37 and is close to retirement.

 

[Slog]

Shami’s highest Test bowling ranking is 7th. He should first break into top 5 some time in his career before coming into any such conversation.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

In 2014-15 series, Shami averaged 35 but he took more wickets than any other pacer from both sides.

Shami 3 tests, 15 wickets, AVG 35
Harris 3 tests, 10 wickets, AVG 33
Johnson 3 tests, 13 wickets, AVG 35
Hazelwood 3 tests, 12 wickets, AVG 29
Starc 2 tests, 7 wickets, AVG 36

Ishant 3 matches,9 wickets, AVG 48
Yadav 3 matches, 11 wickets, AVG 50
Aaron AVG 68

These stats show that Shami was as good as any pacer from both sides in that series, those guys had support, he didn't.

Doesn’t that just tell you that the Aussies all split up the wickets between themselves, but Shami was better than his Indian counterparts? The pure number of wickets is a little misleading, compared to the average.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

You have to take away credit from the brilliant way Kohli batted that series then, is what I’m saying. Those pitches were flat, but not so flat that Kohli doesn’t deserve respect for those fantastic totals he put up against a pretty good attack. Otherwise, if you’re blaming the pitch for the figures (especially if Shami is classed as an ATG), then you’re saying one of Kohli’s most memorable series isn’t as memorable as it’s made out to be.

 

[Ab Fan]

Doesn’t that just tell you that the Aussies all split up the wickets between themselves, but Shami was better than his Indian counterparts? The pure number of wickets is a little misleading, compared to the average.

And the averages generally don't hurt when the bowlers split up the wickets between themselves. However, in the other case, one bowler has taken more wickets than anyone else from both sides in same number of games but due to lack of support, his average is getting hurt as the opposition batsmen are making full use of no pressure from other end.

 

[Ab Fan]

You have to take away credit from the brilliant way Kohli batted that series then, is what I’m saying. Those pitches were flat, but not so flat that Kohli doesn’t deserve respect for those fantastic totals he put up against a pretty good attack. Otherwise, if you’re blaming the pitch for the figures (especially if Shami is classed as an ATG), then you’re saying one of Kohli’s most memorable series isn’t as memorable as it’s made out to be.

Kohli's performance still remains memorable because he hit four hundreds.

Shami's performance in that series was good even after he averaged 35 in that series but if he would have averaged about 25, it would have been great actually.

For the other guys who scored one century, one might argue that it was nothing special and just a decent series for them.

Now for Shami, I am not saying that 2014-15 series was memorable for him but it was a good series for him and aside of that, he has generally done well in other Aus series. So, anyone who bases his argument that Shami has failed in Australia need to understand the context.

I won't call him ATG but will put him in same tier to guys like Boult, Morkel and Johnson.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Kohli's performance still remains memorable because he hit four hundreds.

Shami's performance in that series was good even after he averaged 35 in that series but if he would have averaged about 25, it would have been great actually.

For the other guys who scored one century, one might argue that it was nothing special and just a decent series for them.

Now for Shami, I am not saying that 2014-15 series was memorable for him but it was a good series for him and aside of that, he has generally done well in other Aus series. So, anyone who bases his argument that Shami has failed in Australia need to understand the context.

I won't call him ATG but will put him in same tier to guys like Boult, Morkel and Johnson.

Fair enough. It’s difficult enough for touring pacers in Australia, and to have a rivaling average in that series with Harris, Johnson is remarkable. I hope he had another 2 years in him, but it’s starting to look unlikely with his probable age and recent injury.

 

[Ab Fan]

Fair enough. It’s difficult enough for touring pacers in Australia, and to have a rivaling average in that series with Harris, Johnson is remarkable. I hope he had another 2 years in him, but it’s starting to look unlikely with his probable age and recent injury.

We have a lot of tests coming up next year so if they can save Shami just like Ishant for tests only and with Umesh as one of our strike bowlers at home, we can manage his workload through a rotation policy like England are doing. As a bowler, he is still doing a great job with the bowl and is at his peak but just need to focus on the workload part.

 

[tyron_woodley]

He has done very well for india but he also has many issues with his record right now and at this age I do not see him rectifying that to be considered an ATG. Even in India itself while he has taken a lot of wickets which have led to an ATG-level bowling stats at home; you can say he has operated and thrived on the pressure created by others on many of his best spells.

Can say the same about lot of past greats though.
He is indeed a great bowler. He will become an ATG. If Mitchell Johnson is considered an ATG and Boult etc then so can Shami.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Doesn’t that just tell you that the Aussies all split up the wickets between themselves, but Shami was better than his Indian counterparts? The pure number of wickets is a little misleading, compared to the average.

What it tells me is that Aussies had the better batting for those Condtions.

If Shami played with Clarke Smith Warner etc and the Aussies, the results would have been different.
That also needs to be accounted for.
Your batting can be a difference especially when one team din't have the fifth bowling option.

Shami is a great bowler.
If the Bowler is facing better batsman on Pattas then it's hard to compare the stats between the two set of bowlers.

 

[DRsohail]

He is an AtG WHEN HE RETIRES. he is one of the best bowlers in the world. Period.

When chootys from Sena perform in India or Pakistan then they can compare themselves to being an ATG. At least Shami performed in Australia and South Africa.

South Africa weren't bad at all when he performed. They had de Villiers and co plus their best bowling attack in 2017. Shami performed exceptionally well there.

Same south Africa that obliterated and butchered Pakistani team into Tukda Tukda pieces without de Villiers and rabada who missed the second test.

ai hope his record foes not go from bad to worse when he retirey as at the twilight of his career he will not be able to hive the same result . I can onlu say he is a good bowler who cashed on pressure created by Ashwin and Co in India. ATG is going to be redefined if he is an aTG.

 

[Ab Fan]

What it tells me is that Aussies had the better batting for those Condtions.

If Shami played with Clarke Smith Warner etc and the Aussies, the results would have been different.
That also needs to be accounted for.
Your batting can be a difference especially when one team din't have the fifth bowling option.

Shami is a great bowler.
If the Bowler is facing better batsman on Pattas then it's hard to compare the stats between the two set of bowlers.

Just to add another point,

Shami has played only 16 off his 50 matches at home while people like Hazelwood, Anderson, Boult or Johnson have played far more percentage of games at home compared to overall games they played.

If Shami had played about 50% of his total games at home like Jimmy or Boult or Hazelwood have done, then his career average would have been 25 rather than 27 as he is brilliant with the SG bowl in home conditions. It won't be wrong to say that he is actually better than what his stats suggest.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Just to add another point,

Shami has played only 16 off his 50 matches at home while people like Hazelwood, Anderson, Boult or Johnson have played far more percentage of games at home compared to overall games they played.

If Shami had played about 50% of his total games at home like Jimmy or Boult or Hazelwood have done, then his career average would have been 25 rather than 27 as he is brilliant with the SG bowl in home conditions. It won't be wrong to say that he is actually better than what his stats suggest.

Loool I din't even know that. Yea he is almost an ATG already. Doctored pitches of saffers and Australia for their height bully bowlers won't fare well in the long run when they travel to Asia more often.