Arsenal FC | 2024/25 Season

[Rana]

Can Haverts have a 30+ goal season? Looks like he’s found himself now

 

[topspin]

No way he's one of the best center forwards in the world. Statements like this proves you lack ball knowledge. He's more of a jack of all trades, master of none, which fits in perfectly with Kronkes and their Poodle Arteta.

Name me 10 Centre-forwards who are better than Havertz?

you don't even know about your own team. You referred to Zirkzee as the "Italian kid" and you failed to understand the following reference "eras come to an end", which is what your manager once famously said.

Eras come to an end

Arsenal FC | 2023/24 Season

Arsenal won’t sign Osimhen or any other expensive ST. Havertz will remain the starting CF next season. Sesko deal is very close to happening and he will be the perfect addition to the attack and a huge upgrade on Eddie and Jesus. The next big money signing should be a LW. Martinelli is trash...

ppforum.pakpassion.net

 

[Mamoon]

I totally agree. He is one of the best CFs in today's game. You won't find many better than him.

What guys like @aboveandbeyond don't realise is the game has changed. There is a focus on taller and bigger units playing as goal poachers. Back in the day it was different, there were more flair players playing upfront.

Havertz belongs to the top 10 CFs. My top 5 (in order) are:

Haaland
Kane
Lewandowski (even though he's past his peak)
Gykores/Lautaro Martinez
Lautaro Martinez/Gykores

I have to admit Havertz has exceeded my expectations. I didn't expect him to deliver because he was tried as a no.9 at Chelsea and his finishing was poor during his time with them.

A lot of Arsenal fans didn’t have faith in him, but that is fine. The problem are so-called fans like @Amjid Javed who have an agenda and will never give credit to the likes of Havertz and Arteta. This is why I respect your opinion because your intentions are in the right place.

Coming back to Havertz, Arsenal are blessed to have a player like him. Physical presence, technique and immense defensive work rate. He has become one of the most hard working players in the team in spite of being criticized for his laziness.

Arsenal don’t need to spend big money on a striker now. The objective should be to find a new versatile backup forward because Jesus is finished and a world class winger who is at a higher level than Martinelli.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

I totally agree. He is one of the best CFs in today's game. You won't find many better than him.

What guys like @aboveandbeyond don't realise is the game has changed. There is a focus on taller and bigger units playing as goal poachers. Back in the day it was different, there were more flair players playing upfront.

Havertz belongs to the top 10 CFs. My top 5 (in order) are:

Haaland
Kane
Lewandowski (even though he's past his peak)
Gykores/Lautaro Martinez
Lautaro Martinez/Gykores

I have to admit Havertz has exceeded my expectations. I didn't expect him to deliver because he was tried as a no.9 at Chelsea and his finishing was poor during his time with them.

I fully understand. But if you think Havertz is one of the best strikers in the world, then I'm afraid you can't be helped.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Name me 10 Centre-forwards who are better than Havertz?

you don't even know jack about your own team. You referred to Zirkzee as the "Italian kid" and you failed to understand the following reference "eras come to an end", which is what your manager once famously said.

Arsenal FC | 2023/24 Season

Arsenal won’t sign Osimhen or any other expensive ST. Havertz will remain the starting CF next season. Sesko deal is very close to happening and he will be the perfect addition to the attack and a huge upgrade on Eddie and Jesus. The next big money signing should be a LW. Martinelli is trash...

ppforum.pakpassion.net

Haaland
Kane
Isaak
Marcus Thuram
Guirassy
Openda
Watkins
Lewandonski
Osimen
Mbappe (playing as the Cf at Madrid)
Cristiano Ronaldo

And probably many more.

 

[IMMY69]

You can always talk about the game instead. Would be good to hear your thoughts.

I pretty much agree with everything you said.

Havitz is finally showing everyone why he is so highly rated in Germany.
He joined Chelsea during Covid and some pundits believe he never settled in there.

Saka has been consistently brilliant for almost three seasons and today he stepped up when mattered most.

We keep going, one game at a time

 

[Amjid Javed]

hilarious stuff from usual cheerleaders

So Arsenal beat relegation fodder in Southampton and all of sudden

You have a poster proposing his undying love for Topspin all of sudden. But but ive always like opinion. When's the wedding?

We now have a balon for winner, club legend, better than Henry, Bergkamp, Wright

Man city and Liverpool won their games, zero fuss made

One as usual acting like Arsenal won the quadruple.

 

[IMMY69]

Someone is having a complete meltdown...

 

[Amjid Javed]

Someone is having a complete meltdown...

I'm finding the bhangra feast over a team we should be beating hilarious.

Do you see man city and Liverpool getting gassed up yesterday and setting fireworks off and acting like they have won the league.

The fact certain want validation after everygame, yet end result has yield nothing.

behaviour

 

[aboveandbeyond]

I pretty much agree with everything you said.

Havitz is finally showing everyone why he is so highly rated in Germany.
He joined Chelsea during Covid and some pundits believe he never settled in there.

Saka has been consistently brilliant for almost three seasons and today he stepped up when mattered most.

We keep going, one game at a time

Havertz Audition in Germany was based on his performances as a CAM at Leverkuson.

Infact, alot of the German press questioned Havertz quality as a CF, and blamed him for the defeat to Spain at the Euros

 

[IMMY69]

I'm finding the bhangra feast over a team we should be beating hilarious.

Do you see man city and Liverpool getting gassed up yesterday and setting fireworks off and acting like they have won the league.

The fact certain want validation after everygame, yet end result has yield nothing.

behaviour

You're not making any sense.
This is an Arsenal thread, where else would we discuss yesterday's game?

 

[IMMY69]

Havertz Audition in Germany was based on his performances as a CAM at Leverkuson.

Infact, alot of the German press questioned Havertz quality as a CF, and blamed him for the defeat to Spain at the Euros

So then what you're actually saying is that Arteta's coaching is world class?

 

[aboveandbeyond]

So then what you're actually saying is that Arteta's coaching is world class?

I'm a fan of Havertz. His versatility is good. I was questioning Mamoons statement of Havertz being one of the best in the world, which is ludicrous.

 

[IMMY69]

I'm a fan of Havertz. His versatility is good. I was questioning Mamoons statement of Havertz being one of the best in the world, which is ludicrous.

He himself is ludicrous, which is why it's best to ignore him completely...

 

[Amjid Javed]

You're not making any sense.
This is an Arsenal thread, where else would we discuss yesterday's game?

There's discussing the game and there's gassing up and getting over hyped.

It was a routine win, nothing to get over excited about.

Yet people are using comments like club legend, world class etc...

It's hilarious and embarrassing at same time

 

[Amjid Javed]

I'm a fan of Havertz. His versatility is good. I was questioning Mamoons statement of Havertz being one of the best in the world, which is ludicrous.

So amazing he's reason Arsenal won treble last season and Germany won the Euros.

Henry statue needs to replaced

 

[IMMY69]

There's discussing the game and there's gassing up and getting over hyped.

It was a routine win, nothing to get over excited about.

Yet people are using comments like club legend, world class etc...

It's hilarious and embarrassing at same time

So ignore it...
No one in their right mind would believe this so let it go we over your head

 

[Mamoon]

Havertz Audition in Germany was based on his performances as a CAM at Leverkuson.

Infact, alot of the German press questioned Havertz quality as a CF, and blamed him for the defeat to Spain at the Euros

Arteta taught German football a lesson. Havertz was being playing as a LWB until Arteta unlocked his potential as a CF and the Germany NT mimicked him.

Germany didn’t lose to Spain because of Havertz. They had lost the midfield to Spain and both Musiala and Sane were ineffective as well. In such circumstances you can’t expect Havertz to do much.

Havertz has established himself as Germany’s first choice CF and it is because of Arteta.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Arteta taught German football a lesson. Havertz was being playing as a LWB until Arteta unlocked his potential as a CF and the Germany NT mimicked him.

Germany didn’t lose to Spain because of Havertz. They had lost the midfield to Spain and both Musiala and Sane were ineffective as well. In such circumstances you can’t expect Havertz to do much.

Havertz has established himself as Germany’s first choice CF and it is because of Arteta.

At Leverkuson, Havertz caught the eye in a CAM position. For Germany he was playing as False9/ CF position. And because he wasn't succeeding, he was utilised as a LWB in a few games.

 

[Mamoon]

At Leverkuson, Havertz caught the eye in a CAM position. For Germany he was playing as False9/ CF position. And because he wasn't succeeding, he was utilised as a LWB in a few games.

Havertz is a CAM/CF hybrid. This is where he is at his best. He was low on confidence because it is wasn’t working out for him at Chelsea and the Germany NT couldn’t revive his confidence the way Arteta has, and now the same German NT is copying Arteta he did what they failed to do.

This is what I have been saying since the first day that he was signed - Arteta signed him not for the player that he was at Chelsea but for the player that he could have become when he was at Leverkusen, and now he is living up to that potential.

Havertz would still be struggling had he stayed at Chelsea or moved to United for example.

The signings of Havertz and Raya are two of many examples of why Arteta is so highly rated and why Arsenal are blessed to him him at the helm.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Arteta taught German football a lesson. Havertz was being playing as a LWB until Arteta unlocked his potential as a CF and the Germany NT mimicked him.

Germany didn’t lose to Spain because of Havertz. They had lost the midfield to Spain and both Musiala and Sane were ineffective as well. In such circumstances you can’t expect Havertz to do much.

Havertz has established himself as Germany’s first choice CF and it is because of Arteta.

Four observations from Germany’s 2-1 defeat to Spain as hosts crash out of the EUROs

Heartbreak yet again.

www.bavarianfootballworks.com

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Havertz is a CAM/CF hybrid. This is where he is at his best. He was low on confidence because it is wasn’t working out for him at Chelsea and the Germany NT couldn’t revive his confidence the way Arteta has, and now the same German NT is copying Arteta he did what they failed to do.

This is what I have been saying since the first day that he was signed - Arteta signed him not for the player that he was at Chelsea but for the player that he could have become when he was at Leverkusen, and now he is living up to that potential.

Havertz would still be struggling had he stayed at Chelsea or moved to United for example.

The signings of Havertz and Raya are two of many examples of why Arteta is so highly rated and why Arsenal are blessed to him him at the helm.

Full credit for Arteta for giving him clarity in his role. However, he is far from being one of the best in the world like you stated. He has to be consistent season in, season out.

 

[Amjid Javed]

so missin sitter after sitter including, an open goal is because of Germany midfield vs spain

Wow yet another gem from comedy

Zero ball knowledge of full display as per usual

 

[Amjid Javed]

So when a player fails etc.. according to clown "it can happen"

Yet a player does well its down to the manage

Yet another example of overhyped meat-riding the manager nonsense

So Raya improvement is down to "arteta"

In that case was Ramsdale incompetence down to "arteta" as well, when he was at the club

 

[Amjid Javed]

Full credit for Arteta for giving him clarity in his role. However, he is far from being one of the best in the world like you stated. He has to be consistent season in, season out.

Certain fans standards are so far in the gutter that a few good games and all of sudden players are world class and club legends.

It's like united calling Hollund a legend if he scored a few goals or onana made a few saved

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Certain fans standards are so far in the gutter that a few good games and all of sudden players are world class and club legends.

It's like united calling Hollund a legend if he scored a few goals or onana made a few saved

Yep. Can't believe how certain Gooners get carried away. Then again, I can understand, a culture of failure has been instilled, where the manager is celebrating Also rans as success

 

[Amjid Javed]

Yep. Can't believe how certain Gooners get carried away. Then again, I can understand, a culture of failure has been instilled, where the manager is celebrating Also rans as success

Yep the striker who cost Arsenal FA cup tie vs liverpool, dissapeard vs Bayern in CL and cost Germany the Euros.

Is world class and a club legend

 

[topspin]

Haaland
Kane
Isaak
Marcus Thuram
Guirassy
Openda
Watkins
Lewandonski
Osimen
Mbappe (playing as the Cf at Madrid)
Cristiano Ronaldo

And probably many more.

Looks like you came up with this list based on the last few years because there's no way even you would pick Cristiano Ronaldo (and some other names in that list of yours) ahead of Havertz/

In his last 24 games, Havertz has scored 15 and assisted 6. 21 G/As in 24 games warrants him a place in the top 10 strikers in the world.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Looks like you came up with this list based on the last few years because there's no way even you would pick Cristiano Ronaldo (and some other names in that list of yours) ahead of Havertz/

In his last 24 games, Havertz has scored 15 and assisted 6. 21 G/As in 24 games warrants him a place in the top 10 strikers in the world.

I seriously would pick the strikers on that list above Havertz. A easy decision.

 

[Mamoon]

Looks like you came up with this list based on the last few years because there's no way even you would pick Cristiano Ronaldo (and some other names in that list of yours) ahead of Havertz/

In his last 24 games, Havertz has scored 15 and assisted 6. 21 G/As in 24 games warrants him a place in the top 10 strikers in the world.

21 goal contributions in 24 games with immense defensive contribution. He is an absolute gem.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Looks like you came up with this list based on the last few years because there's no way even you would pick Cristiano Ronaldo (and some other names in that list of yours) ahead of Havertz/

In his last 24 games, Havertz has scored 15 and assisted 6. 21 G/As in 24 games warrants him a place in the top 10 strikers in the world.

Why is a 24 game sample all off a sudden a classification for a top striker in world position?

24 games isn't even a full season.

Like A&B said its about consistency over a long period.

For example ollie watkins has 14 goals and 7 Assists. 21 G/A in 24 games.

So is watkins now in the 10 aswell?

On top of that if we are talking about "in the world"

That includes European competition and international tournaments

Everyone in world apart from what bhangra cheerleader that havertz was reason Germany went out of the Euros (most big chances missed in tournament)

On top of that 2 goals in 12 CL games foe Arsenal is down right **** poor.

If a striker is one of best in world he should be performing in all competitions. A few goals in just the PL isn't an indicator of so called world class proven.

Yet all of sudden he's world class, elite, club legend etc... according Mr Zero ball knowledge .. so please don't get sucked into that hype train as well like him.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

21 goal contributions in 24 games with immense defensive contribution. He is an absolute gem.

with your logic of 24 games as a yard stick for a world class striker

Then Haaland no doubt has to be the GOAT. 100 goals in 100+ plus games.

Fact is you ain't got ball knowledge

 

[Amjid Javed]

with your logic of 24 games as a yard stick for a world class striker

Then Haaland no doubt has to be the GOAT. 100 goals in 100+ plus games.

Fact is you ain't got ball knowledge

24 games is yard stick for best in world strikers

8-10 games is yard stick for best keeper in world

100% dead ball knowledge. The fact he has to copy paste the same repeated nonsense every season shows how clueless he is.

World class managers are now managers who don't win anything for 4 seasons.

Like I said in the gutter, low standards

 

[Amjid Javed]

@topspin

Last 38 PL games

Havertz 17 goals 8 Assists
Nicholas jackson 17 goals 8 Assists

So is Nicholas jackson one of top 10 strikers in world as well?

 

[Mamoon]

with your logic of 24 games as a yard stick for a world class striker

Then Haaland no doubt has to be the GOAT. 100 goals in 100+ plus games.

Fact is you ain't got ball knowledge

If Haaland can keep up these numbers he will be the GOAT #9. There is no shame in admitting that.

That however has nothing to do with Kai and his status as one of the top CF in the game right now.

I don’t need lectures from a deluded United fan who thinks that Ten Hag has been more successful than Arteta.

 

[Mamoon]

So when a player fails etc.. according to clown "it can happen"

Yet a player does well its down to the manage

Yet another example of overhyped meat-riding the manager nonsense

So Raya improvement is down to "arteta"

In that case was Ramsdale incompetence down to "arteta" as well, when he was at the club

Please tell us more about how Havertz is a useless donkey and the worst signing ever

 

[Amjid Javed]

Please tells us about the the FA Cup, CL, PL and Euros that's Arsenal legend and German's greatest ever strikers won last season and during summer

 

[Mamoon]

Please tells us about the the FA Cup, CL, PL and Euros that's Arsenal legend and German's greatest ever strikers won last season and during summer

View attachment 146613

No one said Havertz is an Arsenal legend right now.

However, there’s no doubt that he will go down as Arsenal great because he is going to play a key role in the multiple league titles that Arsenal are gonna win in the coming years.

By 2030, Havertz will be 3x time PL champion with Arsenal and you will keep crying

 

[Amjid Javed]

No one said Havertz is an Arsenal legend right now.

However, there’s no doubt that he will go down as Arsenal great because he is going to play a key role in the multiple league titles that Arsenal are gonna win in the coming years.

By 2030, Havertz will be 3x time PL champion with Arsenal and you will keep crying

So basically according to you non-existent ball knowledge. Including this season, Arsenal are going to win 3 out of the next 5 PL titles atleast.

Delusion at its finest

 

[aboveandbeyond]

If Haaland can keep up these numbers he will be the GOAT #9. There is no shame in admitting that.

That however has nothing to do with Kai and his status as one of the top CF in the game right now.

I don’t need lectures from a deluded United fan who thinks that Ten Hag has been more successful than Arteta.

Ten hag has won more trophies than Arteta. Now that is a fact you won't fathom well.

 

[Mamoon]

Ten hag has won more trophies than Arteta. Now that is a fact you won't fathom well.

Finishing in the top two and challenging for the title is much better than winning the FA Cup/League Cup and not challenging for the title. It is also a fact that you can’t fathom.

Arteta has been far more successful than ETH and far more success than post 2004 Wenger.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Finishing in the top two and challenging for the title is much better than winning the FA Cup/League Cup and not challenging for the title. It is also a fact that you can’t fathom.

Arteta has been far more successful than ETH and far more success than post 2004 Wenger.

look I'm no fan of Ten hag the way things are going. But do remember. Arteta has been at Arsenal twice as long as as Ten hag has at UTD. I know it won't happen, but it could have been a strong possibility if Ten hag was to manage for six seasons he could well have 3 - 4 trophies in the bag and a top 4 finish.
Now that would really put Kronkes poodle Arteta in his place.

 

[topspin]

Why is a 24 game sample all off a sudden a classification for a top striker in world position?

24 games isn't even a full season.

Like A&B said its about consistency over a long period.

For example ollie watkins has 14 goals and 7 Assists. 21 G/A in 24 games.

So is watkins now in the 10 aswell?

On top of that if we are talking about "in the world"

That includes European competition and international tournaments

Everyone in world apart from what bhangra cheerleader that havertz was reason Germany went out of the Euros (most big chances missed in tournament)

On top of that 2 goals in 12 CL games foe Arsenal is down right **** poor.

If a striker is one of best in world he should be performing in all competitions. A few goals in just the PL isn't an indicator of so called world class proven.

Yet all of sudden he's world class, elite, club legend etc... according Mr Zero ball knowledge .. so please don't get sucked into that hype train as well like him.

@topspin

Last 38 PL games

Havertz 17 goals 8 Assists
Nicholas jackson 17 goals 8 Assists

So is Nicholas jackson one of top 10 strikers in world as well?

I didn't cherry pick the last 24 games. I stumbled across it on X when I was reading up on Havertz's injury.

This stat regarding his 21 G/As in the last 24 games has has been circulating on social media and can also be found from this article as well:

https://sports.yahoo.com/arsenal-st...y44H3ID1Ph7T7uVWNRpteVxowJ9btnRAQktzd-hvapONZ

With regards to Ollie Watkins, he's in the conversation for top 10 but one thing I will say, I'm sure Havertz would have done a much better job of those 2 x sitters that Watkins missed against Arsenal at Villa Park back in August.

Nicholas Jackson definitely isn't in the conversation for top 10. Havertz didn't play his last 38 PL games as a striker so the fact that he has the same number of goals proves he's a superior goal scorer.

Also, Jackson misses a lot of sitters. I didn't watch the whole game against Forest from today but against Brighton last weekend:



https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation...on-premier-league-post-match-reaction-ratings

Skip to 2:04

If we were to compare their output in the PL from last season in light of their xG, Havertz is well ahead.

Havertz: 13 goals from xG 13.47
Jackson: 13 goals from xG 19.86

Kai Havertz | Arsenal | xG | Shot Map | Goal stats | Understat.com

Kai Havertz football stats. xG, shot map, match history. Minutes, goals and assits by club, position, situation.

understat.com

Nicolas Jackson | Chelsea | xG | Shot Map | Goal stats | Understat.com

Nicolas Jackson football stats. xG, shot map, match history. Minutes, goals and assits by club, position, situation.

understat.com

 

[topspin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1842860020616122376

 

[Mamoon]

look I'm no fan of Ten hag the way things are going. But do remember. Arteta has been at Arsenal twice as long as as Ten hag has at UTD. I know it won't happen, but it could have been a strong possibility if Ten hag was to manage for six seasons he could well have 3 - 4 trophies in the bag and a top 4 finish.
Now that would really put Kronkes poodle Arteta in his place.

Nonsense.

Arsenal under Arteta have shown continuous progression; United under Ten Hag have showed regression.

Arsenal under Arteta:

First full season: 61 pts
Second season: 69 points
Third season: 84 points
Fourth season: 89 points

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out the direction of travel, or to understand what Arteta is doing.

He is increasing the level, he is increasing the bar. He is the reason why Arsenal fans have started dreaming of winning the league again.

Arsenal fans would have killed to be in the position they are now, and Arteta is the reason why not winning the league would feel like a disappointment.

Arteta is not Kroenke’s son. He would have been replaced by now if the owners didn’t have faith in him and faith is earned which he has.

Arteta is a fantastic manager. He has a brilliant football brain and he has done a job at Arsenal with no prior experience that a lot of experienced managers would have failed to do so.

Anyone who doesn’t rate him or is not impressed by how he has transformed Arsenal not only have 0 clue about football but they are also thick as plank.

On the other hand, United finish with 75 points in Ten Hag’s first season and 60 in his second, and he is all over the place in his third season as well. There is no progress, no direction, no improvement.

Ten Hag is a glorified cup manager. He doesn’t have the intelligence and the tactical nous to build a team that can fight for the PL title. Sooner or later, the owners of United will kick him out because he has not shown anything to suggest that he has the chops to turn things around and have United challenge again.

You can say what you want, the reality is that you would have Arteta at United in a heartbeat. Arteta is the type of manager that United need to turn things around. A manager who has the personality, tactical insight and leadership to revive United. Ten Hag is out of his depth.

 

[Mamoon]

"https://twitter.com/PureAngles?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@PureAngles</a>] <a href="https://t.co/G5eBwAaj7l">pic.twitter.com/G5eBwAaj7l</a></p>&mdash; now.arsenal (@now_arsenaI) <a href="

https://twitter.com/x/status/1842860020616122376

The funny thing is that Havertz is one of the coolest penalty takers around. He will be banging in 20+ goals in the league alone if he was the designated penalty taker.

Havertz would comfortably 25+ PL goals if he were to play up front for City and take penalties with the amount of chances City create for Haaland.

 

[topspin]

The funny thing is that Havertz is one of the coolest penalty takers around. He will be banging in 20+ goals in the league alone if he was the designated penalty taker.

Havertz would comfortably 25+ PL goals if he were to play up front for City and take penalties with the amount of chances City create for Haaland.

It also puts into perspective how bad Jesus has been not only for Arsenal but also for his old club. He didn’t even come close to scoring 20 goals in a single PL season for City.

 

[Technics 1210]

Ten hag has won more trophies than Arteta. Now that is a fact you won't fathom well.

Yet Ten Hag is the one facing the sack

 

[Mamoon]

It also puts into perspective how bad Jesus has been not only for Arsenal but also for his old club. He didn’t even come close to scoring 20 goals in a single PL season for City.

Jesus was a good signing for a club that was fighting for the top four Pakistan Arsenal were in 2021-22. He was younger and better than Lacazette.

However, Arsenal have outgrown him very quickly. He is not good enough for the force that Arsenal have become and the force that City are and hence ousted him.

Same is happening with Martinelli. He is a good player for a team that is looking to get 70-80 points, but not a team looking to get 90+ points.

Some players are left behind when a team reaches a new level. That is precisely what happened with the likes of Tierney, Ramsdale, Jesus and now Martinelli.

You can throw Zinchenko in the mix too - Timber and Calafiori offer the same ability on the ball but a lot more athleticism and pace.

 

[topspin]

I agree that Jesus was a good signing at the time. He cost Arsenal 40-45m which was a cut price as he had one year left on his contract and at the end of the season, he was in really good form in front of goal. Jesus ended his City career with a flourish.

Arsenal have certainly outgrown the ex-City duo of Zinchenko and Jesus, however I disagree with you on Martinelli. The Brazilian has shown a resurgence of late. In his last 3 PL games:

City - 1 x assist
Leicester - 1 x goal and 1 x assist
Southampton - 1 x goal
Overall: 2 x goals and 2 x assists

I would have no problem with upgrading Martinelli if we can get snap up either Wirtz, Musiala or Rodrygo, otherwise I don't think you'll be getting much of an upgrade after spending a large sum of money.

The priorities this summer should be to buy a DM and a number 8 to replace Partey and Jorginho respectively. I'm not convinced that they can continue to play at this level even for another season.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I didn't cherry pick the last 24 games. I stumbled across it on X when I was reading up on Havertz's injury.

This stat regarding his 21 G/As in the last 24 games has has been circulating on social media and can also be found from this article as well:

https://sports.yahoo.com/arsenal-st...y44H3ID1Ph7T7uVWNRpteVxowJ9btnRAQktzd-hvapONZ

With regards to Ollie Watkins, he's in the conversation for top 10 but one thing I will say, I'm sure Havertz would have done a much better job of those 2 x sitters that Watkins missed against Arsenal at Villa Park back in August.

Nicholas Jackson definitely isn't in the conversation for top 10. Havertz didn't play his last 38 PL games as a striker so the fact that he has the same number of goals proves he's a superior goal scorer.

Also, Jackson misses a lot of sitters. I didn't watch the whole game against Forest from today but against Brighton last weekend:

View attachment 146617

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation...on-premier-league-post-match-reaction-ratings

Skip to 2:04

If we were to compare their output in the PL from last season in light of their xG, Havertz is well ahead.

Havertz: 13 goals from xG 13.47
Jackson: 13 goals from xG 19.86

Kai Havertz | Arsenal | xG | Shot Map | Goal stats | Understat.com

Kai Havertz football stats. xG, shot map, match history. Minutes, goals and assits by club, position, situation.

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Nicolas Jackson | Chelsea | xG | Shot Map | Goal stats | Understat.com

Nicolas Jackson football stats. xG, shot map, match history. Minutes, goals and assits by club, position, situation.

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No surprise the stats are on X, this is where most of the fan base like to selectively pick certain stats to gas up players.

Now all of sudden only when havertz plays up front the stats count and if he plays in midgield its irrelevant is the biggest load of nonsense I've ever heard. He's the club's highest paid player, so regardless of where he plays he needs to perform and those metrics should count.

There are plenty of games he plays in midfield then been moved up front or vice versa. So this this selective nonsense holds zero credibility.

Havertz played in midfield at weekend, so I take it the goal does count on the stats as he wasn't playing as a striker?

Same goes for Trossard vs Leicester? He played in midfield so it doesn't count as a goal as a striker? Are his stats now being selectively split out?

In regards to watkins missing sitters vs Arsenal, that was bad indeed. But there are numerous crucial games last season where Havertz missed sitters galore or didn't turn up in games. So to say he he would have done better than watkins is an assumption not a fact.

Have you forgot FA cup game vs liverpool, or Spain vs Germany?

Also with these silly comparisons with haaland are hilarious. Haaland has been Injured for a while during last season. Any mention of number of games havertz and haaland played in 2024?

Any mention of the performances in the CL? No! Reason why because havertz has been poor in that competition for Arsenal.

In regards to Jackson I know he's a donkey. But the fact he has same number of goals in PL in last 38 games, same as havetz shows stats can be used to be deceiving.

I don't need to see XG to tell me if a striker is doing a good job or not.

Apart of haaland non of strikers mentioned are elite or even close to world class at this moment in time.

 

[Amjid Javed]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1842860020616122376

Why no mention of the number of games played? Haaland missed quite a lot if games injured this calender?

Yet more "selective" stats with zero merit or credibility

 

[MK7Z]

I will Openly admit that I was not a fan of the Kai signing and the first few months further convinced me he was not it. However I have given him credit since he has been playing well.

I always said if Kai does well means Arsenal are doing well so I couldn't care less about agenda's and personal issues some have with some players. ( apart from zinchenko obviously)

I said Arteta would die on the Havertz sword if he failed but credit to both. They are both doing well. Kai on current form is one of the top number 9's in the world however form is temporary class is permanent. If he continues to perform like this he can solidify this statement.

Also a striker is ultimately judged on his scoring record but you have to mention his all round game has been impressive recently. Still can improve on his finishing and do better on the more slightly difficult chances but the goal on the weekend was brilliant.

On Arsenal. Its good to see Martinelli play better with a good left side behind. Just need to get some use of Gabriel Jesus cos he really is useless at the moment and offering nothing. I thought Sterling played alrite apart from being mugged for the goal but a lot happened after that.

If we can get Gabriel Jesus to make a contribution and Sterling up to a decent level then I think we will be our own worst enemy to end up empty handed this season. We are a good side. A top side. Add Odegaard and Merino then not many teams will beat us.

A few have made comments that our defense has been poor last 2 games. Granted we have not been as Solid as we can be which is very solid you have to put context on the goals conceded against Leicester and Southampton. 1 Leicester goal was a double deflection and the second one was just a cracker. Maybe poor defensive position but the dude hit that CLEAN!

Southampton goal on the weekend takes a nick and goes to the bottom corner. Not great goals to concede but point I am making I don't think defense is an issue... yet.

Boring international week coming up. Hopefully some can rest and recover. Odegaard, White, Timber, Merino etc and we go again after the break.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Funny how when Jesus was signed it was all gassed up

- that he would better than lacazette.
- he would be getting more game time so scoring more goals
- he's hungry to prove himself as main striker
- He's played under Arteta before he will get the best out of him

Reality is Jesus hasn't even got anywhere near the level lacazette did at Arsenal

On top of that the mediocre goal scoring and fitness record.

So whose to blame here? The manager for not getting best out of him?

Because everyone wants to set fireworks off calling the manager amazing, world class when players succeed. Or is the usual excuse. Let's blame the player

Usual unbalanced nonsense

Player does well its because of the manager

Player does ****, its nothing to do with manager, its all on the player

I wonder how many have a pair of balls to call out like it is.

 

[MK7Z]

Funny how when Jesus was signed it was all gassed up

- that he would better than lacazette.
- he would be getting more game time so scoring more goals
- he's hungry to prove himself as main striker
- He's played under Arteta before he will get the best out of him

Reality is Jesus hasn't even got anywhere near the level lacazette did at Arsenal

On top of that the mediocre goal scoring and fitness record.

So whose to blame here? The manager for not getting best out of him?

Because everyone wants to set fireworks off calling the manager amazing, world class when players succeed. Or is the usual excuse. Let's blame the player

Usual unbalanced nonsense

Player does well its because of the manager

Player does ****, its nothing to do with manager, its all on the player

I wonder how many have a pair of balls to call out like it is.

Very disingenuous post this.

Gabriel Jesus was doing very well before his big injury and has not been the same since. Not sure how you can blame a manager for a players form after injury especially when it happened in a dead rubber game internationally.

The truth is he has faded since his injury so the answer is nothing to do with having a pair to call it out, its more to do with we will never know if he would have been a success had he not got a serious knee injury.

I know you hate Arteta but you are reaching here bro....

 

[Amjid Javed]

Very disingenuous post this.

Gabriel Jesus was doing very well before his big injury and has not been the same since. Not sure how you can blame a manager for a players form after injury especially when it happened in a dead rubber game internationally.

The truth is he has faded since his injury so the answer is nothing to do with having a pair to call it out, its more to do with we will never know if he would have been a success had he not got a serious knee injury.

I know you hate Arteta but you are reaching here bro....

Not reaching at all.

Jesus injury record at Man city wasn't great either.

Neither was his goal scoring record

Yet coming to Arsenal that was going to change. Even before the injury, Jesus output was average at best. So it's no different to when he was at Man city

My point is a simple one. Everyone wants to gas up the manager when a player improves. Yet when a player fails its the player. Double standard nonsense

Another example I'd David Raya, our best player this season, supposedly again all because of the manager

Again if that's the case why did Leno, runnarson, Turner, ramsdale all fail?

It's the same manager coaching all these players.

Always an excuse or two when players fail.

Same goes for Raheem sterling. If he fails. The excuses will be its only a loan it doesn't matter...

Yet when he was signed it was "oh arteta personally wanted him"

Fabio Vieira being another one.. but again excuses are rolled out

 

[MK7Z]

Not reaching at all.

Jesus injury record at Man city wasn't great either.

Neither was his goal scoring record

Yet coming to Arsenal that was going to change. Even before the injury, Jesus output was average at best. So it's no different to when he was at Man city

My point is a simple one. Everyone wants to gas up the manager when a player improves. Yet when a player fails its the player. Double standard nonsense

Another example I'd David Raya, our best player this season, supposedly again all because of the manager

Again if that's the case why did Leno, runnarson, Turner, ramsdale all fail?

It's the same manager coaching all these players.

Always an excuse or two when players fail.

Same goes for Raheem sterling. If he fails. The excuses will be its only a loan it doesn't matter...

Yet when he was signed it was "oh arteta personally wanted him"

Fabio Vieira being another one.. but again excuses are rolled out

He was playing very well prior to his injury and was a big part of the start we had that season. His all round game was much better than what it has become now. So injury is a contributing factor rather than him not being able to be improved by the manager.

Runnarson, Turner were never going to be good enough. Those signings were made when were at our lowest so goes hand in hand with his terrible 1st 2 years.

Leno was not his preference which is fair enough tbh.

Ramsdale was alrite but he needed to upgrade and he has.

Fabio Viera is a failed signing yes.

You can have a balanced view and say some worked out some didn't. Thats OK. I could challenge you to say you are the opposite and rather than praise Arteta for anything you find things to critisize.

Why don't you mention a few things that you think Arteta has done well at the club? Or has he done absolutely nothing?

Go ahead.......

 

[IMMY69]

He was playing very well prior to his injury and was a big part of the start we had that season. His all round game was much better than what it has become now. So injury is a contributing factor rather than him not being able to be improved by the manager.

Runnarson, Turner were never going to be good enough. Those signings were made when were at our lowest so goes hand in hand with his terrible 1st 2 years.

Leno was not his preference which is fair enough tbh.

Ramsdale was alrite but he needed to upgrade and he has.

Fabio Viera is a failed signing yes.

You can have a balanced view and say some worked out some didn't. Thats OK. I could challenge you to say you are the opposite and rather than praise Arteta for anything you find things to critisize.

Why don't you mention a few things that you think Arteta has done well at the club? Or has he done absolutely nothing?

Go ahead.......

What has Arteta done well?
This is will be interesting.

Looking forward to his reply

 

[aboveandbeyond]

One trophy in 6 seasons after spending 600+ Million is pretty ordinary .

 

[MK7Z]

One trophy in 6 seasons after spending 600+ Million is pretty ordinary .

You still here?

 

[IMMY69]

One trophy in 6 seasons after spending 600+ Million is pretty ordinary .

yes we know!!
Arteta is rubbish, Ten Hag is better.

____________________________

 

[topspin]

Nothing wrong with being optimistic bro.

As for Ugarte, bar Rodri, he's equal to Every other CDM, and don't get your silly stats out.

 

[MK7Z]

yes we know!!
Arteta is rubbish, Ten Hag is better.

____________________________

The amount of facts this guy gets wrong but still carries on shamelessly is commendable.

Arteta joined as manager December 2019. But apparently he has been here 6 seasons?

What sort of Maths is this. OK not everybody is good at Geography and may mistake Holland with Italy but come on now

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Bro. He's come in to a shocking environment

 

[aboveandbeyond]

The amount of facts this guy gets wrong but still carries on shamelessly is commendable.

Arteta joined as manager December 2019. But apparently he has been here 6 seasons?

What sort of Maths is this. OK not everybody is good at Geography and may mistake Holland with Italy but come on now

It's his sixth season. You are now clutching at straws.

 

[MK7Z]

Never have I said UTD are back. But I do see light at the end of the tunnel, and I can see us being very competitive in the league over the next few seasons. And if we manage to sign Ugarte from PSG in this window ( who I rate above Rice) then we could really spoil the party for a few teams thus season.

 

[MK7Z]

It's his sixth season. You are now clutching at straws.

No its not his 6th Season. Please explain how. I will accept your answer if it makes sense. Thanks

 

[Amjid Javed]

@MK7Z @IMMY69

Improvements

- improvement in defence as unit in the PL
- improvement in scoring goals in PL
- going from 5th to 2nd (8th wasn't a starting point as the manager took the team backwards initially)
- improvement in away form in PL
- improvement in big 6 games
- improvement in home form vs title rivals in last 18 months
- strong starting 11 built
- Good management of starting 11
- challenged for league twice

Failures

0 cup finals in 4 seasons
0 trophies in 4 seasons
Embarrassing performances in Europe
Inability to compete on multiple fronts
Lost the league twice (bottled once, and threw away initiative in the other)
Inability to handle pressure at back end of season (including squad management)
Poor prioritising of competitors, which has lead to no trophies
Lack of trust in squad players / youth players

So yeah there have been Improvements, the end results have yielded nothing, the fact these owners only care for CL places and money. Means the manager has no pressure to win any trophies. Any other big club (apart from liverpool) would expected their club to win trophies, leagues, compete in Europe and compete on at least 2 fronts.

 

[MK7Z]

@MK7Z @IMMY69

Improvements

- improvement in defence as unit in the PL
- improvement in scoring goals in PL
- going from 5th to 2nd (8th wasn't a starting point as the manager took the team backwards initially)
- improvement in away form in PL
- improvement in big 6 games
- improvement in home form vs title rivals in last 18 months
- strong starting 11 built
- Good management of starting 11
- challenged for league twice

Failures

0 cup finals in 4 seasons
0 trophies in 4 seasons
Embarrassing performances in Europe
Inability to compete on multiple fronts
Lost the league twice (bottled once, and threw away initiative in the other)
Inability to handle pressure at back end of season (including squad management)
Poor prioritising of competitors, which has lead to no trophies
Lack of trust in squad players / youth players

So yeah there have been Improvements, the end results have yielded nothing, the fact these owners only care for CL places and money. Means the manager has no pressure to win any trophies. Any other big club (apart from liverpool) would expected their club to win trophies, leagues, compete in Europe and compete on at least 2 fronts.

Thanks and fair.

I didn't bother with the bottom bit for now as I think you may have mentioned it once or twice before

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Ugartes first season in the Premiership

 

[aboveandbeyond]

No its not his 6th Season. Please explain how. I will accept your answer if it makes sense. Thanks

Ok. You still clutching at straws, 1 trophy in almost 5 seasons.

 

[MK7Z]

Ok. You still clutching at straws, 1 trophy in almost 5 seasons.

How is it 6 seasons though? Like I said if you can explain that I am happy to accept it.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

How is it 6 seasons though? Like I said if you can explain that I am happy to accept it.

Heard it some where he was in his sixth season. Never mind, 1 trophy in almost 5 seasons is no great shakes, when you add the facts that he's spent a fortune.

 

[Mamoon]

Not reaching at all.

Jesus injury record at Man city wasn't great either.

Neither was his goal scoring record

Yet coming to Arsenal that was going to change. Even before the injury, Jesus output was average at best. So it's no different to when he was at Man city

My point is a simple one. Everyone wants to gas up the manager when a player improves. Yet when a player fails its the player. Double standard nonsense

Another example I'd David Raya, our best player this season, supposedly again all because of the manager

Again if that's the case why did Leno, runnarson, Turner, ramsdale all fail?

It's the same manager coaching all these players.

Always an excuse or two when players fail.

Same goes for Raheem sterling. If he fails. The excuses will be its only a loan it doesn't matter...

Yet when he was signed it was "oh arteta personally wanted him"

Fabio Vieira being another one.. but again excuses are rolled out

It is not that difficult to understand but perhaps it is when you’re enslaved by your hatred and toxic agenda.

Every manager in history has made several poor signings. This is inclusive of managers who have been extremely successful. It is impossible to have a 100% success rate with transfers because this is football.

Arteta has made some bad signings and he will make them in the future as well, but you judge a manager by the collective outcome not individual signings.

The collective outcome of Arteta’s business in the market is Arsenal going from being on the cusp of finding itself outside the top half to being on the cusp of winning the league.

What does this show? This shows that Arteta has a very high success rate with transfers and he has an exceptional eye for talent. Therefore, the fans should be patient with his signings because at times, he is able to see things that the common fan does not have the vision and the intelligence to do.

 

[Mamoon]

Heard it some where he was in his sixth season. Never mind, 1 trophy in almost 5 seasons is no great shakes, when you add the facts that he's spent a fortune.

Trophy count will not always reflect progression/regression. A team that has gone from struggling to stay in the top 10 to going toe to toe to win the league has done far better than certain teams who have won domestic cups but are not even close to competing for the league.

Every single United fan with some brain cells would happily swap last two seasons with Arsenal in spite of the two cups.

As far as spending a fortune is concerned, when Arteta took over, United and Chelsea finished top 4 while Arsenal finished 8th.

In spite of that, United and Chelsea have spent more money than Arsenal since then and look where Arsenal are now and where United and Chelsea are.

Funnily enough, even City have outspent Arsenal in this period even though they already had a world class team when Arteta took over Arsenal, and look at how Arsenal has closed the gap.

This was only made possible by the brilliance of Arteta. Arsenal are where United/Chelsea would have been today if they had Arteta, and United/Chelsea are where Arsenal would have been today if they had poor managers like Ole, ETH, Lampard, Potter etc.

 

[Mamoon]

At this point, it is blatantly obvious that the United and Chelsea fans who talk nonsense about Arteta are clearly jealous and why won’t they be?

Arteta is what they thought Ole/Lampard would be, their own in-house world class manager who has a deep affiliation with the club and would stay for the long-term.

Arsenal have struck gold with Arteta. The only shame is that Emery was trusted over him initially but credit to Arsenal for not making the same mistake twice.

 

[MK7Z]

Heard it some where he was in his sixth season. Never mind, 1 trophy in almost 5 seasons is no great shakes, when you add the facts that he's spent a fortune.

It may well be poor. However get your facts right pal.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

At this point, it is blatantly obvious that the United and Chelsea fans who talk nonsense about Arteta are clearly jealous and why won’t they be?

Arteta is what they thought Ole/Lampard would be, their own in-house world class manager who has a deep affiliation with the club and would stay for the long-term.

Arsenal have struck gold with Arteta. The only shame is that Emery was trusted over him initially but credit to Arsenal for not making the same mistake twice.

Can't believe the levels the Gooners have stooped to. Celebrating a bottle job

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Trophy count will not always reflect progression/regression. A team that has gone from struggling to stay in the top 10 to going toe to toe to win the league has done far better than certain teams who have won domestic cups but are not even close to competing for the league.

Every single United fan with some brain cells would happily swap last two seasons with Arsenal in spite of the two cups.

As far as spending a fortune is concerned, when Arteta took over, United and Chelsea finished top 4 while Arsenal finished 8th.

In spite of that, United and Chelsea have spent more money than Arsenal since then and look where Arsenal are now and where United and Chelsea are.

Funnily enough, even City have outspent Arsenal in this period even though they already had a world class team when Arteta took over Arsenal, and look at how Arsenal has closed the gap.

This was only made possible by the brilliance of Arteta. Arsenal are where United/Chelsea would have been today if they had Arteta, and United/Chelsea are where Arsenal would have been today if they had poor managers like Ole, ETH, Lampard, Potter etc.

Agree. But I've never championed UTD managers for constantly failing. Ole, Ten hag. Jose I respected. In his Two years at UTD, he finished second, but won Two trophies. I feel he should have been backed.

You can post all the fairy tales you want about Arteta, bottom line is the more he fails, the worst your delusional symptoms become

 

[topspin]

No surprise the stats are on X, this is where most of the fan base like to selectively pick certain stats to gas up players.

Now all of sudden only when havertz plays up front the stats count and if he plays in midgield its irrelevant is the biggest load of nonsense I've ever heard. He's the club's highest paid player, so regardless of where he plays he needs to perform and those metrics should count.

There are plenty of games he plays in midfield then been moved up front or vice versa. So this this selective nonsense holds zero credibility.

Havertz played in midfield at weekend, so I take it the goal does count on the stats as he wasn't playing as a striker?

Same goes for Trossard vs Leicester? He played in midfield so it doesn't count as a goal as a striker? Are his stats now being selectively split out?

No, we should judge his output since Jan 2024 because Arteta played him out of position in the first half of last season. His defensive work rate is great but he's not a midfielder.

In regards to watkins missing sitters vs Arsenal, that was bad indeed. But there are numerous crucial games last season where Havertz missed sitters galore or didn't turn up in games. So to say he he would have done better than watkins is an assumption not a fact.

Ollie Watkins is about to turn 29 and it's fair to say he was a late bloomer. I believe Havertz has a much higher ceiling. That's the difference.

Have you forgot FA cup game vs liverpool, or Spain vs Germany?

Who cares about how he plays for Germany. I remember the FA cup game against Liverpool very well. It was his first game where he was tried as a centre forward for Arsenal and he was awful in front of goal. But since then he's scored 13 goals from xG of 13. You can't ask for much more than that.

Also with these silly comparisons with haaland are hilarious. Haaland has been Injured for a while during last season. Any mention of number of games havertz and haaland played in 2024?

Haaland has played 23 PL games up until now in 2024. Havertz has played 26 PL games during the same period.

The Norweigan is the better goal scorer but I don't think it's silly comparison at all.

Any mention of the performances in the CL? No! Reason why because havertz has been poor in that competition for Arsenal.

Havertz played in all 10 of those games but again he started as a CF in Jan 2024. He only played the knockout games against FC Porto and Bayern Munich. Arsenal were collectively underwhelming against these two sides, where they only scored 3 goals in their 4 games.

He's played in both CL games this season and he scored a fine header against PSG. I know you'll say they're an average team but I'd still expect them to make it into the next round.

In regards to Jackson I know he's a donkey. But the fact he has same number of goals in PL in last 38 games, same as havetz shows stats can be used to be deceiving.

I don't need to see XG to tell me if a striker is doing a good job or not.

So how do you distinguish between two players who have scored the same (or similar) number of goals in the same (or similar) number of appearances?

Apart of haaland non of strikers mentioned are elite or even close to world class at this moment in time.

As I was saying earlier, the game has changed. There is a focus on taller and bigger units playing as goal poachers. Back in the day it was different, there were more flair players playing upfront, so I get if Havertz doesn't excite you. The harsh truth is modern football is relatively dull.

Look I was in the same boat as you this time last year. I was bewildered when I heard we had signed him because firstly he was a depreciating asset at Chelsea. Despite this, Arsenal paid £65m for him and made him the highest paid player, as he's on almost £300k per week. But it's time to give some credit rather than clutch at straws with all these excuses. No one is saying he's near world class, let alone world class, but he's certainly exceeded our expectations. I have no shame in admitting this.