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India v England | 1st Test | Rajkot | Nov 9-13, 2016 | Day 1

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Eng should pile up 400 at least to be in the run of win.4th innings for ind would be difficult if have to chase 300.
 
Thivagar said:
Real origin like where his parents and great parents are from ?
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Can I just say that I hate the "No, where are you really from?" question. I know you didn't mean it like that but that is the classic thing that white folks ask brown people and it's another reminder that they'll never look at someone like Hameed (or myself) as being British despite being born and raised in England.
 
ENG didn't review that LBW because on lack of experience of playing spin on a turning track. I wrote this several times during last Series, that a left-arm spinner, bowling over the wicket to a left-hander, by the law of motion can't get LBW for an incoming delivery, if the batsman is playing shot. That ball will never hit stick, if it hits the batsman within the off line, or other way, if it's to touch the stick, it has to connect pad out side the line.

By default, Cook should have reviewed that without consulting, as he knew that it was not an armer.
 
MMHS said:
ENG didn't review that LBW because on lack of experience of playing spin on a turning track. I wrote this several times during last Series, that a left-arm spinner, bowling over the wicket to a left-hander, by the law of motion can't get LBW for an incoming delivery, if the batsman is playing shot. That ball will never hit stick, if it hits the batsman within the off line, or other way, if it's to touch the stick, it has to connect pad out side the line.

By default, Cook should have reviewed that without consulting, as he knew that it was not an armer.
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What do you think about this match situation?
 
Its rooting time for ROOT

Have a gut feeling that something huge is coming from him
 
MMHS said:
ENG didn't review that LBW because on lack of experience of playing spin on a turning track. I wrote this several times during last Series, that a left-arm spinner, bowling over the wicket to a left-hander, by the law of motion can't get LBW for an incoming delivery, if the batsman is playing shot. That ball will never hit stick, if it hits the batsman within the off line, or other way, if it's to touch the stick, it has to connect pad out side the line.

By default, Cook should have reviewed that without consulting, as he knew that it was not an armer.
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They did much better than Bangladesh in bd series.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
What do you think about this match situation?
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ENG slightly ahead - that LBW is covered by 3 drops, but you can't drop 3 sitters in 1st hour of a Test against a side with No. 11 having a Test highest of 168 - that too on a potential deteriorating wicket & having 5 specialist batsman, with WK averaging 31 at 6. It'll be difficult if ENG crosses 400, may be even 350 in 1st innings. I think, Pom pacers will come into play here in both innings while Moeen can choke the scoring.

But, IND can come back, either ball or bat on 1st innings; but I don't think they would like to chase 200+ here on Day 4/5.
 
Zak_Fan said:
Is that why the likes of Bishu was wrecking your batting order?
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That was a collapse. We gifted him those wickets. Anyone who watched the game knows the ball wasn't turning much. Its a big misconseption that UAE pitches help the spinners a lot. As sif mentioned, day 4 and 5 is when they start to properly turn and even then it's slow turn. You think what Rashid with the bat did in Dubai on a 5th day could've been done on a proper turning pitch?
 
Big Mac said:
Can I just say that I hate the "No, where are you really from?" question. I know you didn't mean it like that but that is the classic thing that white folks ask brown people and it's another reminder that they'll never look at someone like Hameed (or myself) as being British despite being born and raised in England.
Click to expand...

That is what Brown people ask when they see a Brown player play for UAE, Netherlands and Hong Kong. Some how when someone represents England or Australia they become "English" and "Aussie". I said that on purpose.
 
If England's spinners bowl well they will win this game. Remember this post
 
Decent start

but India would have been way on top if they didn't drop them 2 catches.
 
Nil Dhumrojal said:
They did much better than Bangladesh in bd series.
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Probably not the best bench mark, but I believe couple of times when Moeen was given of Sakib, he did review & got away with that. Here Cook was too conservative - shouldn't have asked a kid, playing 1st time in India & might not have ever played such spinners.
 
Gujarati parents - born and bred in Bolton - plays for lancs since he was a youngster beauty.
 
MMHS said:
Probably not the best bench mark, but I believe couple of times when Moeen was given of Sakib, he did review & got away with that. Here Cook was too conservative - shouldn't have asked a kid, playing 1st time in India & might not have ever played such spinners.
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Yeah,partner didn't help. Cook should have self believe here. He hadn't.
 
aliasad1998 said:
That was a collapse. We gifted him those wickets. Anyone who watched the game knows the ball wasn't turning much. Its a big misconseption that UAE pitches help the spinners a lot. As sif mentioned, day 4 and 5 is when they start to properly turn and even then it's slow turn. You think what Rashid with the bat did in Dubai on a 5th day could've been done on a proper turning pitch?
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Lol UAE does break up in the last 2 days.

Pakistan have collapsed to Mark Craig, Herath, Silva?, Rashid, Tahir and Bishoo twice. Surely Pakistan didn't "gift their wickets" all the time..
 
Thivagar said:
That is what Brown people ask when they see a Brown player play for UAE, Netherlands and Hong Kong. Some how when someone represents England or Australia they become "English" and "Aussie". I said that on purpose.
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Except that most of those uae or Hong Kong players were born and raised in subcontinent countries, whereas the Aussie or English guys mostly are born and raised in those countries. If you are born and raised in England, you would obviously prefer people seeing you as English rather than Indian because ur parents or grandparents happen to be from some country you haven't ever went to or lived in
 
street cricketer said:
Lol UAE does break up in the last 2 days.

Pakistan have collapsed to Mark Craig, Herath, Silva?, Rashid, Tahir and Bishoo twice. Surely Pakistan didn't "gift their wickets" all the time..
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But this time we did. Even to Rashid we did. Our batsmen are solid on those tracks but they have this bad habit. It does break up but it still isn't a rank turner by any means.
 
Jadeja said on last Aus tour to India that how English batsmen were way more patient than the Aus ones and easy to get them,hope he remembers his words and continues the line and remains patient to get the English.
 
Gone. Looks like Aswhin has finally found his rhythm and we all know what that means for the English batters
 
Imagine where we would be standing right now if India didn't drop those 3 lollies.
 
Messiah said:
Except that most of those uae or Hong Kong players were born and raised in subcontinent countries, whereas the Aussie or English guys mostly are born and raised in those countries. If you are born and raised in England, you would obviously prefer people seeing you as English rather than Indian because ur parents or grandparents happen to be from some country you haven't ever went to or lived in
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They didn't have any problem with Gary Balance, Morgan, Trottt and and Fawad Ahmed.
 
Good bowling but that was poorly played by Hameed. Another young batsman is getting his technique vs spin exposed. Look how that bat was coming down. Still looks a good prospect
 
Ashwin usually takes late to take his first wicket.

Hopefully he has set into his rhythm now.
 
aliasad1998 said:
But this time we did. Even to Rashid we did. Our batsmen are solid on those tracks but they have this bad habit. It does break up but it still isn't a rank turner by any means.
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The ball definitely does assist turn in the last 2 days though. The "deadness" of UAE tracks are exaggerated. Yeah, they are a patta for the first 3 days but mostly break up towards the end. Remember Bishoo turning it in the 2nd innings of the day nighter and Sardaraz who is normally a very good player of spin getting out stumped to him.
 
Watching Duckett bat the first time. Would be interesting to see how he bats in India.
 
Ashwin still not found his rhythm. :facepalm:

That was just one good over. Buckett over was poor.

Needs to work on this.
 
street cricketer said:
The ball definitely does assist turn in the last 2 days though. The "deadness" of UAE tracks are exaggerated. Yeah, they are a patta for the first 3 days but mostly break up towards the end. Remember Bishoo turning it in the 2nd innings of the day nighter and Sardaraz who is normally a very good player of spin getting out stumped to him.
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I think, UAE wickets are "Dead" wicket.

It's not about turn, unless you have bounce with the turn & gets pace (kick) of the wicket, batsmen can play out big turns with dead bat Quick scoring might be an issue, but survival isn't, because batsmen can use dead bat & the edges won't carry, while they can almost change the shot if beaten by flight, for the slowness of the wicket. On UAE wickets, you actually cam bat for 2 days at 2.2 scoring rate, if you have players like Azhar, Pujara or Samarwera.

PAK lost lots of wickets to Bishu mainly trying to force the issue & score quickly; something similar to Adil last year; but those are the worst wickets for spinners, in fact for cricket.
 
MMHS said:
I think, UAE wickets are "Dead" wicket.

It's not about turn, unless you have bounce with the turn & gets pace (kick) of the wicket, batsmen can play out big turns with dead bat Quick scoring might be an issue, but survival isn't, because batsmen can use dead bat & the edges won't carry, while they can almost change the shot if beaten by flight, for the slowness of the wicket. On UAE wickets, you actually cam bat for 2 days at 2.2 scoring rate, if you have players like Azhar, Pujara or Samarwera.

PAK lost lots of wickets to Bishu mainly trying to force the issue & score quickly; something similar to Adil last year; but those are the worst wickets for spinners, in fact for cricket.
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Thank you for conveying my message. I wasn't saying it clearly enough. Huge myth that UAE wickets are spinners paradise on day 4 and 5. If I were a spinner I'd prefer to bowl on day 1 of this wicket than day 4 of a UAE wicket. This is why when I judge our bowlers I am not too harsh on them and judge them on how they are bowling in stead if how many wickets they are getting
 
One hing ENG learned from Dhaka Test that on such wickets, you can't hang around. They have a good depth, should bat at close to 4/over & try to score as much as possible in 1st 4 sessions. ENG won't score much in 3rd innings, neither IND on 4th.
 
Ducket picking up where he left off in Bangladesh. At least with him on strike you know something is gonna happen
 
aliasad1998 said:
Thank you for conveying my message. I wasn't saying it clearly enough. Huge myth that UAE wickets are spinners paradise on day 4 and 5. If I were a spinner I'd prefer to bowl on day 1 of this wicket than day 4 of a UAE wicket. This is why when I judge our bowlers I am not too harsh on them and judge them on how they are bowling in stead if how many wickets they are getting
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Ok...let's take an objective view.

Zulfi averages 20 in 3rd and 4th innings in UAE.

He averaged 30-40 in SL.

How did that happen?

I think there are a lot of subtleties that get missed here.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Ok...let's take an objective view.

Zulfi averages 20 in 3rd and 4th innings in UAE.

He averaged 30-40 in SL.

How did that happen?

I think there are a lot of subtleties that get missed here.
Click to expand...

Scoreboard pressure. In Sri Lanka he had one chance to bowl with a good total on the board (1st Test)in the 3rd innings of a pitch that wasn't turning too much plus yasir just ran through Sri Lanka. In stead of giving stats, look at his wickets against England and Australia in the 3rd/4th innings. How many of those balls really turned a lot except maybe a few (one to James Taylor comes to mind in the 3rd test against England)
 
UAE is both dead and not dead.

Depends on how you define dead.

Spinners can't average 20 odd in dead tracks if they don't aid in 3rd and 4th innings. The same spinners average 35-40 in 1st innings.
 
Lunch ,decent effort by India should had been better though 102/3.
 
aliasad1998 said:
Scoreboard pressure. In Sri Lanka he had one chance to bowl with a good total on the board (1st Test)in the 3rd innings of a pitch that wasn't turning too much plus yasir just ran through Sri Lanka. In stead of giving stats, look at his wickets against England and Australia in the 3rd/4th innings. How many of those balls really turned a lot except maybe a few (one to James Taylor comes to mind in the 3rd test against England)
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Plus that australia team was a joke against spin
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Ok...let's take an objective view.

Zulfi averages 20 in 3rd and 4th innings in UAE.

He averaged 30-40 in SL.

How did that happen?

I think there are a lot of subtleties that get missed here.
Click to expand...

Forget about that, Abdur Rehman strike rate is 34 in the last innings lol.

Yes, better than Ashwin, Yasir and Herath.
 
aliasad1998 said:
Scoreboard pressure. In Sri Lanka he had one chance to bowl with a good total on the board (1st Test)in the 3rd innings of a pitch that wasn't turning too much plus yasir just ran through Sri Lanka. In stead of giving stats, look at his wickets against England and Australia in the 3rd/4th innings. How many of those balls really turned a lot except maybe a few (one to James Taylor comes to mind in the 3rd test against England)
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Still doesn't explain the huge trends with massive sample sets for the same bowler in different conditions. Pakistan were in good position i

Don't take a quality bowler like Yasir.

Take Zulfi.

The numbers speak volumes with large sample sets.

I think the recent WI series pitches were horrible but when Eng and Aus toured, UAE tracks turned later on.

Rashid took a 5fer on a dead Abu Dhabi track due to big turn later on.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Ok...let's take an objective view.

Zulfi averages 20 in 3rd and 4th innings in UAE.

He averaged 30-40 in SL.

How did that happen?

I think there are a lot of subtleties that get missed here.
Click to expand...

The sample is too small actually - Zulfi's average is based on 2 innings of 5 each against Aussies with 500+ at hand. These Aussies actually can't play holding game & Misbah gave his favorite bowler licence to bowl unchanged from one end. Had that been MoHa or even Azhar bowling 40 overs, I am sure they also would have got 5 or even more wickets. UAE wickets doesn't break, neither gives uneven bounce - it just dies down, lower & lower, slower & slower.
 
MMHS said:
The sample is too small actually - Zulfi's average is based on 2 innings of 5 each against Aussies with 500+ at hand. These Aussies actually can't play holding game & Misbah gave his favorite bowler licence to bowl unchanged from one end. Had that been MoHa or even Azhar bowling 40 overs, I am sure they also would have got 5 or even more wickets. UAE wickets doesn't break, neither gives uneven bounce - it just dies down, lower & lower, slower & slower.
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His sample set on dead UAE tracks in 3rd and 4th innings is decent.

Babar averages 40 normally.

On 3rd and 4th innings in UAE, his numbers are:

19 vs Aus
15 vs Eng
24 vs NZ
25 vs SA
27 vs WI

27 wickets in 10 innings......2.7 wickets per innings...
 
There is an overwhelming evidence that suggest otherwise.

Take Abdur Rehman too.

People are getting carried away due to garbage pitches in one series.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
UAE is both dead and not dead.

Depends on how you define dead.

Spinners can't average 20 odd in dead tracks if they don't aid in 3rd and 4th innings. The same spinners average 35-40 in 1st innings.
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In my opinion, a dead pitch is one which does absolutely nothing, neither helping the pacers and spinners. Like the one at Nottingham 2014 vs India.

UAE are pattas for most part but they become slow turners towards the end. Obviously they have a poor outfield which can't be denied.
 
I want Pakistan to play in good spin tracks too. Yasir has it harder than other Asian spinners.

But that doesn't mean we go to the other end of the spectrum.
 
33 overs bowled in the first despite a good initial 10 over burst from the seamers. We may see close to 100 overs bowled in the day lol
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I want Pakistan to play in good spin tracks too. Yasir has it harder than other Asian spinners.

But that doesn't mean we go to the other end of the spectrum.
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Hey I wasn't trying to belittle India's performance. What's that English saying about shoes and feet?
 
aliasad1998 said:
Hey I wasn't trying to belittle India's performance. What's that English saying about shoes and feet?
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I know bro.

You are a good poster man. So is MMHS. We can have a genuine discussion. :D

I was making a point to sum my view. UAE is in no way comparable to Indian spin tracks or even SL or Bang tracks in general.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
His sample set on dead UAE tracks in 3rd and 4th innings is decent.

Babar averages 40 normally.

On 3rd and 4th innings in UAE, his numbers are:

19 vs Aus
15 vs Eng
24 vs NZ
25 vs SA
27 vs WI

27 wickets in 10 innings......2.7 wickets per innings...
Click to expand...

Still, I'll say it actually proves my point.

Babar is a type of bowler who doesn't flight or turn much, he is a mean darter, who keeps pegging the batsmen & wait for them to miss one. That actually is not a spinner wicket bowling, rather dead slow wicket bowling - just keep things tight, choke runs & you miss, I hit.

Can you recall, I always say that the most difficult bowler to face in UAE will be Jaddu - he is the better version of Babar. Obviously, on a dry wicket under desert sun, without slightest of live or dead grass on it, spinners will get turn after 300 overs - but that's not sin track. It doesn't test batsman's spin playing capacity, rather it tests his patience & resistance to boredom. For spinners also, it doesn't test their bowling skills - loop, turn, drift or intelligence of setting up a batsman; rather it just tests their accuracy & endurance of bowling 35 overs in a day on tight line in desert.

Take the example of 2 wickets by Ash today - in UAE, that edge won't have ever carried to slips & that slider would have been so slow that probably Haseeb would have got the time to take his bat in line, despite beaten all end up & possibly an inside edge (even then, that bad pad won't have carried). To be honest, I like Test cricket just for the drama of it & the uncertainty of 3 results; otherwise, I probably won't have watched a single ball in UAE. You can notice that during ODI/T20 in UAE, I hardly post - just don't find any taste to watch such vulgar cricket.
 
Lol, after BCCI approved DRS, Star Sports is full on promoting it in lunch time
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I know bro.

You are a good poster man. So is MMHS. We can have a genuine discussion. :D

I was making a point to sum my view. UAE is in no way comparable to Indian spin tracks or even SL or Bang tracks in general.
Click to expand...

Yeah yeah I was just hoping you would get my inside joke about the English saying. You have the avatar but clearly havent seen the movie enough times :srt
 
Ball is not spinning much, itsa flat day 1 pitch and yet Ashwin taking wickets with his uile
 
Looking at the first session from a neutral standpoint - Runs flowing, seamers creating opportunities and spinners picking up wicket. As good a session as one can get in test cricket.

From an Indian standpoint, the dropped catches were disappointing. But if we get Root quickly, I will be happy.
 
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