"Jasprit Bumrah is a baby bowler in front of me and I could have easily dominated him" : Abdul Razzaq

[TheSultan]

Dude seriously how many 16 year olds make Test debut and become legends? The answer is 0. Sachin was extremely talented. Someone who scored hundreds on his first tours to England, Australia, South Africa all before he turned 20. That is not giving boost, it is lack of knowledge and delusion. No one other than Razzak will say Shehzad was more talented than Sachin. Shehzad had no potential, I might agree with Umran Akmal but Shehzad was a limited batter who was ridiculed more just in this forum than praised

Age doesn’t matter - even by his own admission in the interview with Nasser he wasn’t ready at 16, he didn’t feel he belonged, he wasn’t prepared to play that kind of pace.

He was fast tracked.

Of course he had some talent, you don’t become an international player with 0 talent. But even some of his countrymen had more talent and ability than him, forget some of the heavyweights of natural talent like Lara, Saeed Anwar. He could never match VVS’ Elegance or Azharuddin’s wristy flicks. That’s great natural talent.

Tendulkar was a very mechanical player and yes he was very good at it, but it was more down to practice, hard work and playing a lot - repetition, repetition. Talent, not so much

 

[giri26]

Age doesn’t matter - even by his own admission in the interview with Nasser he wasn’t ready at 16, he didn’t feel he belonged, he wasn’t prepared to play that kind of pace.

He was fast tracked.

Of course he had some talent, you don’t become an international player with 0 talent. But even some of his countrymen had more talent and ability than him, forget some of the heavyweights of natural talent like Lara, Saeed Anwar. He could never match VVS’ Elegance or Azharuddin’s wristy flicks. That’s great natural talent.

Tendulkar was a very mechanical player and yes he was very good at it, but it was more down to practice, hard work and playing a lot - repetition, repetition. Talent, not so much

Obviously everyone needs to work hard but Sachin was one of the highly talented cricketer in world cricketer. Someone who dominated domestic cricket at the age of 14/15, was one of the best players in the world by the time he was 18. Someone who could play pace and spin with equal ease. Runs in Australia, South Africa, England, New Zealand at the age of 18. If that is not talent, not sure what is. Talent is not just about playing pretty shots. Tendulkar in the 90's was very innovative and some of the shots he used to play in ODI's were brilliant. He had great technique but in now way mechanical. People who only watched Sachin post 2005 have no clue about what an aura he had in the 90's and the kind of talent he possessed as a young player.

 

[Ab Fan]

Lol Razzaq himself is a nothing cricketer, he is basically what Pandya is today. All talks but no merit in his statements.

Imagine Pandya going out and saying that Babar is a baby batsman in front of him, I have faced better bowlers than him.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Well, Tendulkar did score a Test century in South Africa as a real teenager and that requires talent. Unlike the fake aged spinach eating gangsta that was Razzler. Was bowling 78 mph by the tender age of "24"

 

[TheSultan]

Lol Razzaq himself is a nothing cricketer, he is basically what Pandya is today. All talks but no merit in his statements.

Imagine Pandya going out and saying that Babar is a baby batsman in front of him, I have faced better bowlers than him.

Razzi can say that because he played in a different era.

Pandya can’t because he plays against babar now and hasn’t treated him like a baby batsman

 

[TheSultan]

Obviously everyone needs to work hard but Sachin was one of the highly talented cricketer in world cricketer. Someone who dominated domestic cricket at the age of 14/15, was one of the best players in the world by the time he was 18. Someone who could play pace and spin with equal ease. Runs in Australia, South Africa, England, New Zealand at the age of 18. If that is not talent, not sure what is. Talent is not just about playing pretty shots. Tendulkar in the 90's was very innovative and some of the shots he used to play in ODI's were brilliant. He had great technique but in now way mechanical. People who only watched Sachin post 2005 have no clue about what an aura he had in the 90's and the kind of talent he possessed as a young player.

I watched him in the 90s and believe me he didn’t exude the style, elegance, panache and brilliance of Lara, Saeed bhai, Carl hooper, Azharuddin, Mark Waugh, Inzi.

Sachin made a lot of runs but it was like watching paint dry

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I watched him in the 90s and believe me he didn’t exude the style, elegance, panache and brilliance of Lara, Saeed bhai, Carl hooper, Azharuddin, Mark Waugh, Inzi.

Sachin made a lot of runs but it was like watching paint dry

Lara, yes.

Rest of the players mentioned dont hold a candle to Tendulkar in runs or crunch moments.

Tendulkar was a free flowing batsmen.

Not sure how it was watching paint dry.

 

[Mamoon]

Bumrah is better than Waqar.

 

[shaz619]

Injured and undergoing rehab . However I came here for a similar question on same lines. What is Razzaq doing these days. No way he is still playing PSL, is he?

Why would you think he is playing, how old are you

 

[Local.Dada]

Why would you think he is playing, how old are you

Well Shoaib Malik is still playing isn’t he? Never say never

 

[TheSultan]

Lara, yes.

Rest of the players mentioned dont hold a candle to Tendulkar in runs or crunch moments.

Tendulkar was a free flowing batsmen.

Not sure how it was watching paint dry.

Comes down to personal preference about the style - no-one will convince me he had more style and elegance as all of the players I mentioned . Yes you can argue he’s a better player than them, but not in for the categories I mentioned.

Crunch moments - There can be a whole thread on Sachin losing it in crunch moments, we’ll reserve that discussion for another thread.

 

[shaz619]

Well Shoaib Malik is still playing isn’t he? Never say never

Perhaps he should, it wouldn’t shock me if he was able to compete with the pace bowling “all rounders” in Pakistan

 

[RexRex]

I think it is fair to say that Bumrah is a better bowler than even the celebrated Wasim Akram because his performances came against top teams rather than minnows. Look at his stupendous record on Cricinfo.

 

[TheSultan]

I think it is fair to say that Bumrah is a better bowler than even the celebrated Wasim Akram because his performances came against top teams rather than minnows. Look at his stupendous record on Cricinfo.

Top teams in a baby era

Baby Era

Baby Pace

Baby Bowler

 

[jnaveen1980]

I watched him in the 90s and believe me he didn’t exude the style, elegance, panache and brilliance of Lara, Saeed bhai, Carl hooper, Azharuddin, Mark Waugh, Inzi.

Sachin made a lot of runs but it was like watching paint dry

Tendulkar was anything but "paint dry". Genuinely text book shot player with great power and timing. Always played in straight lines. Exaggerated high backlift may look appealing. Dravid does all the time. Ganguly is also very smooth. But Tendulkar's with hardly any backlift can execute a straight drive nobody can match.

 

[charlie007]

Don't know the context in which Razzaq said this, but this is quite dumb even as a joke. He would have won a lottery too if he had bought a ticket in the first place.

 

[RexRex]

Top teams in a baby era

Baby Era

Baby Pace

Baby Bowler

That is a convincing argument. I take back what I said.

 

[moghul]

Don't remember when was the last time Razzaq said anything sensible.

 

[MP2011]

Tendulkar didn't have talent? Or he wasn't good to watch?

You learn something new everyday!

 

[Ab Fan]

Razzi can say that because he played in a different era.

Pandya can’t because he plays against babar now and hasn’t treated him like a baby batsman

Razzi can say whatever he wants. Problem is his comments doesn't hold any legitimacy considering that he was a failure of a test cricketer himself and neither does he bring in anything worth as an analyst so that holds no value anyways.

 

[Rightarmfast]

I watched him in the 90s and believe me he didn’t exude the style, elegance, panache and brilliance of Lara, Saeed bhai, Carl hooper, Azharuddin, Mark Waugh, Inzi.

Sachin made a lot of runs but it was like watching paint dry

Grapes are sour.

 

[Devadwal]

What will He say now about bumrah ??

Bumrah is dominating against all the batters

 

[sweep_shot]

What will He say now about bumrah ??

Bumrah is dominating against all the batters

Modern day batters are technically more vulnerable compared to batters from previous eras. So, job is easier for Bumrah.

I believe guys like Kallis, Mahela, Sangakara, Lara etc. would've dealt with Bumrah easily. Even Abdul Razzaq might have taken him to clearners. Abdul Razzaq once smashed McGrath for 20 runs (5 fours). Is Bumrah better than McGrath?

 

[Devadwal]

modern-day batsmen are more destructive due to their aggressive approach and power hitting .

Modern day batters are technically more vulnerable compared to batters from previous eras. So, job is easier for Bumrah.

I believe guys like Kallis, Mahela, Sangakara, Lara etc. would've dealt with Bumrah easily. Even Abdul Razzaq might have taken him to clearners. Abdul Razzaq once smashed McGrath for 20 runs (5 fours). Is Bumrah better than McGrath?

 

[Cricket Warrior]

What will He say now about bumrah ??

Bumrah is dominating against all the batters

Bumrah has improved a lot as a bowler and there is no harm in accepting this fact.

 

[sweep_shot]

modern-day batsmen are more destructive due to their aggressive approach and power hitting .

They are more aggressive but not better batters than likes of Brian Lara, Ponting, Jayasuriya, Tendulkar, Dravid, Inzamam, Sangakara, Mahela, Kallis etc.

My point is Bumrah is playing in an era when batting quality has declined.

 

[Jatlahoria]

Modern day batters are technically more vulnerable compared to batters from previous eras. So, job is easier for Bumrah.

I believe guys like Kallis, Mahela, Sangakara, Lara etc. would've dealt with Bumrah easily. Even Abdul Razzaq might have taken him to clearners. Abdul Razzaq once smashed McGrath for 20 runs (5 fours). Is Bumrah better than McGrath?

Razzaq’s fearless counterattacking slog approach would have given him some success against Bumrah, but it would be like 1-2 times in 10 games.

Modern day batters are technically more vulnerable compared to batters from previous eras. So, job is easier for Bumrah.

I believe guys like Kallis, Mahela, Sangakara, Lara etc. would've dealt with Bumrah easily. Even Abdul Razzaq might have taken him to clearners. Abdul Razzaq once smashed McGrath for 20 runs (5 fours). Is Bumrah better than McGrath?

 

[Mainul]

Modern day batters are technically more vulnerable compared to batters from previous eras. So, job is easier for Bumrah.

I believe guys like Kallis, Mahela, Sangakara, Lara etc. would've dealt with Bumrah easily. Even Abdul Razzaq might have taken him to clearners. Abdul Razzaq once smashed McGrath for 20 runs (5 fours). Is Bumrah better than McGrath?

I agree . Though its all prediction and difficult to confirm. Two different era. I have seen both. All are champions in their era. Bumrah is in his own era. India has been extremely lucky to have him in the team.

 

[ace58]

They are more aggressive but not better batters than likes of Brian Lara, Ponting, Jayasuriya, Tendulkar, Dravid, Inzamam, Sangakara, Mahela, Kallis etc.

My point is Bumrah is playing in an era when batting quality has declined.

Lol bumrah would dominate white ball cricket in the 90s and 2000s. Pitches where not nearly as flat as they are now, bat technology was worse (heavier and less powerfull) no two new balls rule that make it easier to score. A batsman with an average of 50 and stike rate of 70 was considered an odi goat back then.now a batsman with those stats would get dropped.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Razzaq was not your typical Pakistani mentality player. He was more aggressive and took apart a bowler like Glen Mcgrath. Cannot predict the thing but yeah, it would have been one hell of a battle.

 

[sweep_shot]

Razzaq was not your typical Pakistani mentality player. He was more aggressive and took apart a bowler like Glen Mcgrath. Cannot predict the thing but yeah, it would have been one hell of a battle.

Abdul Razzaq toyed with McGrath

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Modern day batters are technically more vulnerable compared to batters from previous eras. So, job is easier for Bumrah.

I believe guys like Kallis, Mahela, Sangakara, Lara etc. would've dealt with Bumrah easily. Even Abdul Razzaq might have taken him to clearners. Abdul Razzaq once smashed McGrath for 20 runs (5 fours). Is Bumrah better than McGrath?

The previous era was one where 240 was considered tough to chase, today 350 is considered par.

This is Bumrah we are not talking about, not some random Bangladeshi bowler like Fizz

 

[cricketjoshila]

Abdul Razzaq toyed with McGrath

Based on what? One innings?

 

[JaDed]

Based on what? One innings?

Even Balaji can smack Shaheen, Amir if some logic is to be believed.

 

[giri26]

Razzaq was not your typical Pakistani mentality player. He was more aggressive and took apart a bowler like Glen Mcgrath. Cannot predict the thing but yeah, it would have been one hell of a battle.

Based on what? One innings?

He scored 40 of 38 balls and Pakistan lost by 81 runs. So him toying did not help much. He hit 20 of those 40 runs of just 5 balls and then ended up scoring rest of the 20 runs of 33 balls.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Even Balaji can smack Shaheen, Amir if some logic is to be believed.

Balaji smacked Akhtar once. Isn't it?

 

[pillionrider]

Balaji smacked Akhtar once. Isn't it?

Even Harbhajan smashed Akhtar in an Asia Cup final.

I can imagine this guy hitting Bumrah for a couple sixes and fours across career meetings. Doesn't mean anything, if Bumrah eventually helps his team win. Razzaq was exceptional on his day but also mediocre on other days. His bravado is based off a few showings. By that logic Ross Taylor who destroyed him in a WC (unlike Razzaq's bilateral showoffs) should be on TV shows calling him a diaper wearing baby.

 

[Unleashed]

Razzaq would have dismissed within the first ten balls he faced on Bumrah.

 

[maha3us]

'Bumrah is a baby bowler and I could have easily dominated him' tells an ex-player. Razzaq could probably hit a few boundaries and sixes in an over. But how many batsmen who are Razzaq' contemporaries tell this statement? Do we hear Waugh brothers, Ponting, Astle or Jaya Surya tell this?

 

[Romali_rotti]

I watched him in the 90s and believe me he didn’t exude the style, elegance, panache and brilliance of Lara, Saeed bhai, Carl hooper, Azharuddin, Mark Waugh, Inzi.

Sachin made a lot of runs but it was like watching paint dry

In other words.

I am a typical sour grape Pakistani..

 

[big_gamer007]

Razzaq made this comment back in 2019. At that time a lot of Pakistani so called experts on TV were not taking Bumrah seriously.
However, in last 5 years most Pakistani experts like Kamran Akmal, Basit Ali etc have recognised Bumrah’s greatness and appreciate his performances in nearly every show they do about India.

It would be interesting to hear from Razzaq what his opinion on Bumrah is in 2024, if he still maintains what he said in 2019 it will only prove a case of sour grapes/grand delusion.

 

[Adiram]

Balaji smacked Akhtar once. Isn't it?

Bumrah scored 35 runs in one over against the bowling of Stuart Broad in England in 2022 (I think in Birmingham). Does it mean Bumrah is the best batsman in the world

 

[RahulBose]

Age doesn’t matter - even by his own admission in the interview with Nasser he wasn’t ready at 16, he didn’t feel he belonged, he wasn’t prepared to play that kind of pace.

He was fast tracked.

Of course he had some talent, you don’t become an international player with 0 talent. But even some of his countrymen had more talent and ability than him, forget some of the heavyweights of natural talent like Lara, Saeed Anwar. He could never match VVS’ Elegance or Azharuddin’s wristy flicks. That’s great natural talent.

Tendulkar was a very mechanical player and yes he was very good at it, but it was more down to practice, hard work and playing a lot - repetition, repetition. Talent, not so much

There is no such thing as "talent".
When you something enough time , you become good at it.
This is how all things work.
Eventually, when somebody new looks at you( somebody who did not see your hours of practice) , they marvel at your effortless stokes and say - man you are talented.

Humans are just machines where they get better at things they do.
A few things like body structure and genetics give you an edge but nothing compares to repeated practice of the same skill.

I feel Pakistan is left behind in the world as they give more than average emphasis to "talent" and way less emphasis to Mechanical practice of your skill.

 

[RahulBose]

Modern day batters are technically more vulnerable compared to batters from previous eras. So, job is easier for Bumrah.

I believe guys like Kallis, Mahela, Sangakara, Lara etc. would've dealt with Bumrah easily. Even Abdul Razzaq might have taken him to clearners. Abdul Razzaq once smashed McGrath for 20 runs (5 fours). Is Bumrah better than McGrath

Lol... Bumrah is most accurate bowler ever. His powers are relentless accuracy, something that transcends eras.

But again a moot point, since there is no definite way of knowing what would have happened if Bumrah bowled in previous era.

But Abdul Razzaq had no idea what he was talking about when he said Bumrah is a baby bowler.

 

[TheSultan]

In other words.

I am a typical sour grape Pakistani..

I only mentioned one Pakistani in there.

There are mechanical greats and stylish ones. Sachin fitted in to the former

 

[TheSultan]

There is no such thing as "talent".
When you something enough time , you become good at it.
This is how all things work.
Eventually, when somebody new looks at you( somebody who did not see your hours of practice) , they marvel at your effortless stokes and say - man you are talented.

Humans are just machines where they get better at things they do.
A few things like body structure and genetics give you an edge but nothing compares to repeated practice of the same skill.

I feel Pakistan is left behind in the world as they give more than average emphasis to "talent" and way less emphasis to Mechanical practice of your skill.

Let me just break this down for you - and it’s not complicated.

There is style and there is mechanical efficiency. Mechanical efficiency normally requires hard work and precision. Style is something that just comes naturally.

Style is not enough and still requires hard work for you to develop a working product. With mechanical efficiency you can tune the mechanics to develop some sort of style, but it’s not natural style. E.g. I think Sachin took it quite personally when some commentators mentioned him not possessing that breathtaking Azharuddin flick. So he developed a flick. Now imo it was still a very mechanical flick and was still not breathtaking to watch.

It didn’t make Sachin a lesser batsman, it’s just he didn’t have that attribute.

Why can that not be accepted. There’s nothing wrong with that.

But as usual Indian fans want him to be the best statistically, the best stylistically, the best natural talent the best blah blah blah.

I agree with your last paragraph though about Pakistan. They are being left behind. I encourage our players to put in the hard work that Sachin put in.

 

[mominsaigol]

There is no such thing as "talent".
When you something enough time , you become good at it.
This is how all things work.
Eventually, when somebody new looks at you( somebody who did not see your hours of practice) , they marvel at your effortless stokes and say - man you are talented.

Humans are just machines where they get better at things they do.
A few things like body structure and genetics give you an edge but nothing compares to repeated practice of the same skill.

I feel Pakistan is left behind in the world as they give more than average emphasis to "talent" and way less emphasis to Mechanical practice of your skill.

Their is one other thing though, it's called aptitude.

Human beings are products of their environment as well as products of their genetics.

Genetically some humans are better at certain things, for example a typical black male would absolutely demolish a white male on a fight even if both of them never work out or train.

This applies to cricket as well, if we have 2 player who are trained by the same coach, put in the same effort, play on the same pitches, play at the same no in all formats, are both right handers and face the same bowlers, it's likely one of them will be better then the other simply because he had the superior genetic aptitude for it.

And the 2nd thing is environment. Environment matters, Sachin is born in India which is a cricketing country qith insane money and infrastructure, Kohli has an even bigger advantage thanks to IPL, and BCCI having most control over ICC in recent times.

If Sachin or kohli were born in France, then they wouldn't be cricket players.

Someone's environment heavily determines their success, for example

A) Who were your parents and how did they influence you?

B) Who are your friends and critics and how did they influence you.

C) Who are the other people in your life, how did they influence you, what did they teach you?

For example in Azam Khan's case his father in tv has multiple times said I can't do anything this boy loves food, so clearly his father has had a very very strong influence on his weight due to his relax attitude and never teaching him the consequence of such action that he is taking.

 

[Arajit]

They are more aggressive but not better batters than likes of Brian Lara, Ponting, Jayasuriya, Tendulkar, Dravid, Inzamam, Sangakara, Mahela, Kallis etc.

My point is Bumrah is playing in an era when batting quality has declined.

And Bumrah is also playing in an era when New Ball rules, Power Play rules, Pitches are all favouring Batsmen, Hitting and High Scores (have a look at how many batsmen are having 50 plus batting averages in this era)

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Modern day batters are technically more vulnerable compared to batters from previous eras. So, job is easier for Bumrah.

I believe guys like Kallis, Mahela, Sangakara, Lara etc. would've dealt with Bumrah easily. Even Abdul Razzaq might have taken him to clearners. Abdul Razzaq once smashed McGrath for 20 runs (5 fours). Is Bumrah better than McGrath?

Oh, so if you hit five fours on MCgrath then you can dominate anyone?

Then why did your Razzaq end with and average of 30, if he dominated Mcgrath who was the best bowler of his generation, other bowlers would be piece of cake for him?

 

[BouncerGuy]

This thread is not about Sachin or Saeed Anwar. Do not derail the thread with irrelvent posts.

 

[anikrc1]

Top teams in a baby era

Baby Era

Baby Pace

Baby Bowler

Yep, time and improvement in science somehow makes a sport regress, basically zero idea how social evolution takes place.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

They are more aggressive but not better batters than likes of Brian Lara, Ponting, Jayasuriya, Tendulkar, Dravid, Inzamam, Sangakara, Mahela, Kallis etc.

My point is Bumrah is playing in an era when batting quality has declined.

Tendulkar struggled against Hansie Cronje, does that mean Stoinis will have his number now?

Picking up one instance and extrapolating it doesn’t make sense

 

[Josh]

90s bowlers would have been getting spanked all around the park if they bowl to modern day batsmen on these T20 pitches. They would have to learn how to bowl a good slower ball, off cutter etc.

 

[TheRock]

Tendulkar struggled against Hansie Cronje, does that mean Stoinis will have his number now?

Picking up one instance and extrapolating it doesn’t make sense

Couple of yrs ago, Bumrah smashed 35 runs in one over of Stuart Broad in a test match at Edgbaston. Implies Bumrah = Yuvraj in batting. (As per the logic of that poster)

 

[Romali_rotti]

I only mentioned one Pakistani in there.

There are mechanical greats and stylish ones. Sachin fitted in to the former

Yeah that's the point, you mentioned a Pakistani.

Saeed Anwar is not fit enough to be mentioned with the Lara and Tendulkars

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The person who made this statement is a selector for the national side and coach in domestic cricket.

He is responsible for identifying talent from the domestic structure and grooming the next generation of cricketers.

With such an eye for talent, delusions of grandeur and propensity to make dumb statements by the people who are running our cricket is it any wonder why we are in the plights we are?

If Mohsin Naqvi wants to carry out surgery, the first step would be to remove these cancerous tumours.

 

[Hitman]

Yeah that's the point, you mentioned a Pakistani.

Saeed Anwar is not fit enough to be mentioned with the Lara and Tendulkars

Saeed Anwar was a good batsman by Pakistani standards. That's the reason why Pakistani fans try and big him up to the level of Tendulkar. And when you bring stats and facts of both those players till the time Saeed Anwar was active in international cricket, those fans quietly walk away. The numbers are so embarrassing to Anwar in both Tests and ODI's, it's hilarious.​

 

[TheSultan]

Yeah that's the point, you mentioned a Pakistani.

Saeed Anwar is not fit enough to be mentioned with the Lara and Tendulkars

I mentioned Carl hooper too. I guess the difference in elegance vs overall greatness is lost on you. Don’t want to derail the thread, but please open up another thread so I can enlighten you and some others. It really isn’t rocket science mate, but I might draw a picture with some crayons to help you understand.

 

[TheSultan]

Indian's defend Sachin like he is both their first born and father. You can't reason with them on this matter.

So true - and I’m not even saying anything too controversial here! Very difficult

 

[anikrc1]

I mentioned Carl hooper too. I guess the difference in elegance vs overall greatness is lost on you. Don’t want to derail the thread, but please open up another thread so I can enlighten you and some others. It really isn’t rocket science mate, but I might draw a picture with some crayons to help you understand.

Tendulkar was both greater and a more stylish player than Anwar with a vastly superior array of strokes. Has Anwar even once played the upper cut?

 

[TheSultan]

Tendulkar was both greater and a more stylish player than Anwar with a vastly superior array of strokes. Has Anwar even once played the upper cut?

What a top edge, for 6? I’ll look it up.

 

[Hitman]

Tendulkar was both greater and a more stylish player than Anwar with a vastly superior array of strokes. Has Anwar even once played the upper cut?

Indians used to take pride in Zaheer Khan, trying to big him up before Bumrah arrived on the scene. Same with Pakistani fans.

 

[anikrc1]

Indians used to take pride in Zaheer Khan, trying to big him up before Bumrah arrived on the scene. Same with Pakistani fans.

Yeah, I mean before the t-20 generation arrived no one had as many strokes like the upper cut, the paddle from outside the off stump, the scoop like ,sachin, not Ponting, not lara, not Anwar. The rebranding of Sachin being mechanical is basically a cope out as unlike objective facts you can just chalk it off to subjectivity, basically a coward's way out.

 

[Hitman]

Yeah, I mean before the t-20 generation arrived no one had as many strokes like the upper cut, the paddle from outside the off stump, the scoop like ,sachin, not Ponting, not lara, not Anwar. The rebranding of Sachin being mechanical is basically a cope out as unlike objective facts you can just chalk it off to subjectivity, basically a coward's way out.

What else do you expect from fans of a player known as THE RAT in the 90’s?

 

[cricketjoshila]

The person who made this statement is a selector for the national side and coach in domestic cricket.

He is responsible for identifying talent from the domestic structure and grooming the next generation of cricketers.

With such an eye for talent, delusions of grandeur and propensity to make dumb statements by the people who are running our cricket is it any wonder why we are in the plights we are?

If Mohsin Naqvi wants to carry out surgery, the first step would be to remove these cancerous tumours.

Identify talent?

Please remind me who said

" Ahmed Shehzad had more talent than Sachin Tendulkar".

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Identify talent?

Please remind me who said

" Ahmed Shehzad had more talent than Sachin Tendulkar".

It is one thing fans making these statements but another thing it coming from ex-pros. He is clearly unfit for being a selector as his past statements show.

 

[SM1989]

He couldn’t even play Munaf Patel and here he is talking about playing Bumrah.

 

[BouncerGuy]

I don't think you guys read the topic of the thread before posting. THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT ANY SACHIN OR QADIR OR SAEED ANWAR.

Can you not derail the thread with such irrelevant stuff?

 

[chinaman00]

The person who made this statement is a selector for the national side and coach in domestic cricket.

He is responsible for identifying talent from the domestic structure and grooming the next generation of cricketers.

With such an eye for talent, delusions of grandeur and propensity to make dumb statements by the people who are running our cricket is it any wonder why we are in the plights we are?

If Mohsin Naqvi wants to carry out surgery, the first step would be to remove these cancerous tumours.

Fair statement.

Most of these Pakistani players lack critical thinking and common sense. It explains the horrendous decision-making of the PCB & the absolute mental breakdown of the Pakistani team in major events. They just can’t handle pressure or think logical. It’s all about ‘passion’ and emotions.

Abdul Razaq is no different and fits this well established Pakistani pattern.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Keep this thread to Bumrah and razzaq,

 

[RidiculousMan]

Baby has grown in 5 years

 

[Hitman]

I don't think you guys read the topic of the thread before posting. THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT ANY SACHIN OR QADIR OR SAEED ANWAR.

Can you not derail the thread with such irrelevant stuff?

Sir, we Indian posters are not the ones who started derailing it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

There is no such thing as "talent".
When you something enough time , you become good at it.
This is how all things work.
Eventually, when somebody new looks at you( somebody who did not see your hours of practice) , they marvel at your effortless stokes and say - man you are talented.

Humans are just machines where they get better at things they do.
A few things like body structure and genetics give you an edge but nothing compares to repeated practice of the same skill.

I feel Pakistan is left behind in the world as they give more than average emphasis to "talent" and way less emphasis to Mechanical practice of your skill.

There is something called natural ability.

Hand eye or hand limb coordination.

Great and keen eyesight.

A keen mind.

You see when you talk about the elite sportsmen you will see that they actually excelled in different sports at junior level.

 

[RahulBose]

Let me just break this down for you - and it’s not complicated.

There is style and there is mechanical efficiency. Mechanical efficiency normally requires hard work and precision. Style is something that just comes naturally.

Style is not enough and still requires hard work for you to develop a working product. With mechanical efficiency you can tune the mechanics to develop some sort of style, but it’s not natural style. E.g. I think Sachin took it quite personally when some commentators mentioned him not possessing that breathtaking Azharuddin flick. So he developed a flick. Now imo it was still a very mechanical flick and was still not breathtaking to watch.

It didn’t make Sachin a lesser batsman, it’s just he didn’t have that attribute.

Why can that not be accepted. There’s nothing wrong with that.

But as usual Indian fans want him to be the best statistically, the best stylistically, the best natural talent the best blah blah blah.

I agree with your last paragraph though about Pakistan. They are being left behind. I encourage our players to put in the hard work that Sachin put in.

Maybe it would help if you tell me what do you mean by style???
Coz, unless two batsman are identical twins, their style (from what I understand) would always be different.
And since style is not a objective comparative quality, there is no way to know which is one better.

 

[RahulBose]

Their is one other thing though, it's called aptitude.

Human beings are products of their environment as well as products of their genetics.

Genetically some humans are better at certain things, for example a typical black male would absolutely demolish a white male on a fight even if both of them never work out or train.

This applies to cricket as well, if we have 2 player who are trained by the same coach, put in the same effort, play on the same pitches, play at the same no in all formats, are both right handers and face the same bowlers, it's likely one of them will be better then the other simply because he had the superior genetic aptitude for it.

And the 2nd thing is environment. Environment matters, Sachin is born in India which is a cricketing country qith insane money and infrastructure, Kohli has an even bigger advantage thanks to IPL, and BCCI having most control over ICC in recent times.

If Sachin or kohli were born in France, then they wouldn't be cricket players.

Someone's environment heavily determines their success, for example

A) Who were your parents and how did they influence you?

B) Who are your friends and critics and how did they influence you.

C) Who are the other people in your life, how did they influence you, what did they teach you?

For example in Azam Khan's case his father in tv has multiple times said I can't do anything this boy loves food, so clearly his father has had a very very strong influence on his weight due to his relax attitude and never teaching him the consequence of such action that he is taking.

I quite agree with everything you said. Genetics and environment are viral in designing the person you would become.

In Sachin's case, he was incredibly lucky to be in the right environment probably had the right genes.

 

[Sir Alex]

Modern day batters are technically more vulnerable compared to batters from previous eras. So, job is easier for Bumrah.

I believe guys like Kallis, Mahela, Sangakara, Lara etc. would've dealt with Bumrah easily. Even Abdul Razzaq might have taken him to clearners. Abdul Razzaq once smashed McGrath for 20 runs (5 fours). Is Bumrah better than McGrath?

Bumrah smashed Broad for 35 runs in an over. Hence Bumrah > David Warner

 

[sweep_shot]

Bumrah smashed Broad for 35 runs in an over. Hence Bumrah > David Warner

That was not the logic I was insinuating.

My point was Bumrah might not have had this amount of success against vastly superior batters from previous era.

 

[Sir Alex]

I only mentioned one Pakistani in there.

There are mechanical greats and stylish ones. Sachin fitted in to the former

The great Don Bradman was reminded of himself while watching Sachin. Guess Sir Don was also a "mechanical great". If so, I am sure Sachin won't mind at being one

 

[Sir Alex]

That was not the logic I was insinuating.

My point was Bumrah might not have had this amount of success against vastly superior batters from previous era.

What else were you insinuating by pointing out a statistical one off thing ?

Sachin Tendulkar has more ODI fifers than Shane Warne . Does that mean Warne was an inferior white ball bowler than Sachin ?

There is absolutely nothing indicating thar Bumrah won't succeed in thr 90s Era. On the contrary, there would be be so much of video analysis and other microscopic stuff to study him and hence he'd be even more potent and difficult.

 

[sweep_shot]

What else were you insinuating by pointing out a statistical one off thing ?

Sachin Tendulkar has more ODI fifers than Shane Warne . Does that mean Warne was an inferior white ball bowler than Sachin ?

There is absolutely nothing indicating thar Bumrah won't succeed in thr 90s Era. On the contrary, there would be be so much of video analysis and other microscopic stuff to study him and hence he'd be even more potent and difficult.

Those who saw cricket in 90's should know what I was insinuating.

I think Shahid Afridi and Abdul Razzaq would've taken Bumrah to cleaners. Reason behind Bumrah's success is because current batters don't like to go after him. Travis Head went after Bumrah in 2023 WC final and it worked brilliantly.