[PICTURES/VIDEOS] Jasprit Bumrah is the best fast-bowler in the world right now

[KP From India]

Who were the Greats and ATG bowlers Bradman face as Sachin faced closed to 22-25. Can you mention at least 15 names with the mixture of pace and spin bowlers?

Is 55/60 = 99?

 

[KP From India]

Is 55/60 = 99?

55 does not equate to 99, that's not the point Sir.
Compare 1 Indian Player toured all over the world and averaged 50+ combined against bowlers all over the world.
Another Ranji batsman ( Somehow convince BCCI , don't ask how lol) to play only home tests, Tours against SL, Pak, WI and Bangladesh and average 57-58 with 90 odd tests.
Which batsman is more valuable?

 

[just a fan]

Seen clips of bradman's batting. The standard of bowling is atrocious to say the least.

 

[mominsaigol]

55 does not equate to 99, that's not the point Sir.
Compare 1 Indian Player toured all over the world and averaged 50+ combined against bowlers all over the world.
Another Ranji batsman ( Somehow convince BCCI , don't ask how lol) to play only home tests, Tours against SL, Pak, WI and Bangladesh and average 57-58 with 90 odd tests.
Which batsman is more valuable?

Does 50+ or 57-58 equate to 99?

 

[RexRex]

Seen clips of bradman's batting. The standard of bowling is atrocious to say the least.

It was an absolute joke. No cricket before the Packer series of 1977 should be taken seriously.

 

[KP From India]

99 avg of that era.
That equates 60 of today's era.
Again no names of greats or ATG bowlers that Bradman faced.
Certain things are almost gauranteed not to happen in today's era.
For eg., Sunil Joshi's spell of 10-6-6-5 against quality SA or Bapu Nadkarni's 21 maiden overs on trot.
No bowler today or in future will end ODI figures of 10-6-6-5 not even Bumrah .
Today's bowler will get something like 10-1-47-6 or when on song something like 5-1-19-6 etc. No bowler today will bowl 60 balls and concede 6 runs against a regular side.

 

[jnaveen1980]

99 avg of that era.
That equates 60 of today's era.
Again no names of greats or ATG bowlers that Bradman faced.
Certain things are almost gauranteed not to happen in today's era.
For eg., Sunil Joshi's spell of 10-6-6-5 against quality SA or Bapu Nadkarni's 21 maiden overs on trot.
No bowler today or in future will end ODI figures of 10-6-6-5 not even Bumrah .
Today's bowler will get something like 10-1-47-6 or when on song something like 5-1-19-6 etc. No bowler today will bowl 60 balls and concede 6 runs against a regular side.

Phil simmons once had a spell of 10-8-3-4 against pakistan i think. He was a part timer.

 

[mominsaigol]

99 avg of that era.
That equates 60 of today's era.
Again no names of greats or ATG bowlers that Bradman faced.
Certain things are almost gauranteed not to happen in today's era.
For eg., Sunil Joshi's spell of 10-6-6-5 against quality SA or Bapu Nadkarni's 21 maiden overs on trot.
No bowler today or in future will end ODI figures of 10-6-6-5 not even Bumrah .
Today's bowler will get something like 10-1-47-6 or when on song something like 5-1-19-6 etc. No bowler today will bowl 60 balls and concede 6 runs against a regular side.

You're missing the point. Typical of Indian fans who ignore everything in order to glorify Sachin.

Bradman was born in an era where their was virtually no infrastructure, no coaching, no good bat quality, Hprrific pitches that were impossible to curate, Horrible drainage systems, No safety equipment etc.

Despite this he was miles ahead of anyone in his era despite being born and I repeat BEONG BORN IN THE EXACT SAME INFRASTRUCTURE.

Sachin on the other hand is born in a country with the greatest cricketing infrastructure in the world. Richest board, Even pre IPL era. His infrastructure gave him significant advantages over many other countries like Zimbabwe for obvious reasons. Only England and Australia compare however England and Australia don't have a superior infrastructure in cricketing sense but due to their historic sports culture + genetics they compete easily.

Despite this sachin's overall record isn't miles and miles ahead of others like people claim to be, he gets points for longevity.

I'd like to see Sachin avg 99 while being born in the 1930's with no coaches, no trainers, no advantages to cultivate his cricketing career ontop of a godamn world war being held where he has to take a plathero of frustratingly 2 to 5 year long breaks before he gets to play again. Heck if Sachin was born in Zimbabwe modern era he wouldn't be great due to lacking infrastructure.

Sachin is talented no doubt, infact he's the greatest player India has ever produced and other players who go through the same infrastructure + IPL aren't anywhere close, But theirs a strark contrast between the era Bradman was born in and what Sachin was born into.

Sachin being born in the 1930's would have been a footnote just like everyone else was.

Similarly if Bradman was born in sachin's era where he has access to the exact same structure Sachin has, He'd be miles and miles superior to anyone because you've taken a player who was already the best with no infrastructure and now given him the qorlds best infrastructure.

 

[sweep_shot]

Seen clips of bradman's batting. The standard of bowling is atrocious to say the least.

How come other batters didn't average 99 like Bradman if it was that easy?

 

[Buffet]

Bradman was born in an era where their was virtually no infrastructure, no coaching, no good bat quality, Hprrific pitches that were impossible to curate, Horrible drainage systems, No safety equipment etc.

Despite this he was miles ahead of anyone in his era despite being born and I repeat BEONG BORN IN THE EXACT SAME INFRASTRUCTURE.

Sachin on the other hand is born in a country with the greatest cricketing infrastructure in the world. Richest board, Even pre IPL era. His infrastructure gave him significant advantages over many other countries like Zimbabwe for obvious reasons. Only England and Australia compare however England and Australia don't have a superior infrastructure in cricketing sense but due to their historic sports culture + genetics they compete easily.

Despite this sachin's overall record isn't miles and miles ahead of others like people claim to be, he gets points for longevity.

I'd like to see Sachin avg 99 while being born in the 1930's with no coaches, no trainers, no advantages to cultivate his cricketing career ontop of a godamn world war being held where he has to take a plathero of frustratingly 2 to 5 year long breaks before he gets to play again. Heck if Sachin was born in Zimbabwe modern era he wouldn't be great due to lacking infrastructure.

Sachin is talented no doubt, infact he's the greatest player India has ever produced and other players who go through the same infrastructure + IPL aren't anywhere close, But theirs a strark contrast between the era Bradman was born in and what Sachin was born into.

Sachin being born in the 1930's would have been a footnote just like everyone else was.

Similarly if Bradman was born in sachin's era where he has access to the exact same structure Sachin has, He'd be miles and miles superior to anyone because you've taken a player who was already the best with no infrastructure and now given him the qorlds best infrastructure.

It's 100 times easier to be outlier in sample size of 10K vs sample size of 1M.

One great cricketer among 10K world wide players will stand out by a big marign vs everyone else.

With exact same ratio, you will get 10 great players among 1M players and no one is going to stand out by a large margin.

These are not opinions but simple stats.


Sticking to facts, Bradman stood out among players a large margin when very few players were playing cricket professionally. He is an ATG in cricket and will be included in most ATG sides, but if some one choses to not include him due to not being tested against ATG bowlers then that's fine as well. I will have him in my ATG world XI.

 

[Buffet]

Bumrah is the GOAT. Confirmed today .. we won't see a bowler like him again.

Nah, plenty to do to be GOAT. You can't be GOAT without 600-700 international wickets + a huge impact.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Is 55/60 = 99?

With 10-12 teams playing test cricket with talk about only 4 batsmen as being in the league of greats.

Why its surprising that when 3-4 teams played only one guy was truly a great and made merry against amateurs.

I am not even going to talk about the different countries a batsman tours and the improvement in bowling skills.

 

[cricketjoshila]

How come other batters didn't average 99 like Bradman if it was that easy?

Why despite having 10-12 test teams there is only fab 4?

 

[RyanRyan10]

Why are we discussing Bradman on thread related to Bumrah?

 

[Buffet]

Why are we discussing Bradman on thread related to Bumrah?

I think beause thread is - "Bumrah is the best fast bowler in world right now? "

Not much to discuss there, is it?

Joke aside, agree, no need to discuss off topic stuff. I am also guilty of talking about off topic stuff.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think beause thread is - "Bumrah is the best fast bowler in world right now? "

Not much to discuss there, is it?

Joke aside, agree, no need to discuss off topic stuff. I am also guilty of talking about off topic stuff.

Anything less than 300 test wickets and 400 white ball wickets and Bumrah may not be in the goat discussion.

 

[Buffet]

Anything less than 300 test wickets and 400 white ball wickets and Bumrah may not be in the goat discussion.

GOAT is far away.

 

[cricketjoshila]

GOAT is far away.

Yup.

I made some calculations. Bumrah will need to play double the number of matches and keep the same performance to be counted among ATGs.

 

[Buffet]

Yup.

I made some calculations. Bumrah will need to play double the number of matches and keep the same performance to be counted among ATGs.

It's extremly hard to double the matches with the same level of performance. Not more than 5-10% chance and I may be overstating it by saying even 5-10%.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It's extremly hard to double the matches with the same level of performance. Not more than 5-10% chance and I may be overstating it by saying even 5-10%.

Well that's what separates the from the rest.

 

[RexRex]

GOAT is far away.

Who are the GOATs above Bumrah ?

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Theirs a difference. Bradman was also born in the exact same era and no one in his era even averaged 50 let alone 99.

He isn't a time traveller, he's born in that era with the same infrastructure, same talent pool, same pitches, same bats and what not.

Reason he's a God of cricket is because he genuinely was superior to everyone in his era in every metric whereas Sachin was not.

Heck one trait of Bradman was that he single handidely won games without the need for any input whereas Sachin despite all his talents led India into the ground during his captaincy stint. Which clearly shows that while he's a gun batter, Ultimately he has his limitations as he alone is not capable of outbatting the opposition to the point that bowling becomes a non factor.

“Theirs a difference. Bradman was also born in the exact same era and no one in his era even averaged 50 let alone 99.”

Try Wally Hammond , George Headley and Len Hutton, to name but three — all contemporaries of Bradman’s who all averaged well above 50.
Cricket didn’t just start twenty years ago…..

 

[TheSultan]

Where are Bumrah’s devastating performances?

Where are all the 6-fers? 7-fers? Match 10-fers?

 

[Buffet]

Who are the GOATs above Bumrah ?

In test: Marshall, McGrath, Steyn, Wasim, Donald, Hadlee
In ODI: McGrath, Wasim
In T20: No one

That's individually in different formats and you can argue for more names but no need to list them. But I will rank these names ahead for sure right now. Taking two formats, McGrath and Wasim are ahead of him. It's rare to be that good in all formats and Bumrah is indeed gun in all three formats, but we can't hold T20 against McGrath and Wasim due to different era.

Currently at 400 international wickets with a very high impact. Once gets into 600-700 then can be a contender for GOAT. Not now. No way he is GOAT with 400 international wickets.

 

[dravidthewall]

Where are Bumrah’s devastating performances?

Where are all the 6-fers? 7-fers? Match 10-fers?

Because another ATG bowler Ashwin playing along side with him. He has to share wickets with him..So every match 4 fer max he can get....Ashwin usually takes 5 wickets.

 

[kron]

Theirs a difference. Bradman was also born in the exact same era and no one in his era even averaged 50 let alone 99.

He isn't a time traveller, he's born in that era with the same infrastructure, same talent pool, same pitches, same bats and what not.

Reason he's a God of cricket is because he genuinely was superior to everyone in his era in every metric whereas Sachin was not.

Heck one trait of Bradman was that he single handidely won games without the need for any input whereas Sachin despite all his talents led India into the ground during his captaincy stint. Which clearly shows that while he's a gun batter, Ultimately he has his limitations as he alone is not capable of outbatting the opposition to the point that bowling becomes a non factor.

How would he fare vs deadly shaheen rauf and naseem shah who would see fear in don's dreamy eyes?

 

[Buffet]

Where are Bumrah’s devastating performances?

Where are all the 6-fers? 7-fers? Match 10-fers?

No 7-fer.

33/6 in Melbourne - Match and series changing spell in Aus

61/6 in Cape Town - Match changing spell in SA

Also, 45/6 agaisnt Eng at home, but I don't see it that highly.

He has more impact than most bowlers have in their entire career agaisnt strong teams in their den. Having 7-fers or 8-fers is way less meanigful if it comes at home or comes against weak teams.

 

[Buffet]

Because another ATG bowler Ashwin playing along side with him. He has to share wickets with him..So every match 4 fer max he can get....Ashwin usually takes 5 wickets.

That's not true when playing away but then away Bumrah has more impact than most bowlers.

 

[kron]

No one in today's era can average 99 with the bat, no one. 99 is a face value.

Would Muralitharan have averaged 9 or 10 against today's batters with susceptible techniques. Of course not, he would have averaged 18 at best instead of 23.

There is a difference between 200 and 70 odd sample size. Players like Kapil played till their thighs were broken to 131 tests, he could have chose to play 80-90 odd tests.

Kapil's average of 29.70 is also at a face value, he was a 25-26 average bowler and certainly was at least a Gillespie level.

Murali was a chucker anyway.

And good players will find a way to smash him. He would still average 23 to 25.

Same with warnie. Drs has changed the game for spinners though.

 

[mominsaigol]

How would he fare vs deadly shaheen rauf and naseem shah who would see fear in don's dreamy eyes?

Brother, Don Bradman has played over 234 FC games averaging 94. He has the fastest century aka 100 of 22 balls, with 117 centuries and 400 scores for fun.

All this achieved with barely any safety equipment, Horrible bat quality, Horrible pitches that were damp and 90% of the time not even prepared and the games were played in a flood.

All while he had to deal with a world war and put a stop to things and go yesrs without playing games in comparison to today era where NZ after a few months of not playing international t20 looked like they'd never held a bat or ball in their life and got marked by afg and West indies.

How rubbish can the bowling reasonably be especially when Larwood was throwing chucking 170KPH baseball level throws at the batters body and head cause they weren't wearing any equipment and every bowler on that era had a habit of smashing bitten banana tampered balls at your face?

Indians need to stop gloating, the bowling wasn't rubbish, It was much much easier and unfair at said period and a few rubbish bowlers seen on tv ignoring the body line balls means nothing.

Bradman had no infrastructure and came from the same era as the rest, and had infinite more difficulties then anyone on the planet, And even if the narrative of everyone being a trundler which isn't true considering its more accurate to say that 30% were baseball throwing chuckers, a 100 of 22 balls is freakishly good in any era, especially with the horrible bat quality

Imagine Sachin playing in said era, Larwood would thrown a ball straight to his non helmet bhoota and broken his face. Yei halat thei 1920's aur 1930's mei.

Saeed ajmal, Shabbir ahmed etc would have loved that era lol

 

[RexRex]

Currently at 400 international wickets with a very high impact. Once gets into 600-700 then can be a contender for GOAT. Not now. No way he is GOAT with 400 international wickets.

Yeah I disagree, 600 is just an arbitrary number. Bumrah got to 400 with far more lethality than Wasim or Glenn.

 

[kron]

Brother, Don Bradman has played over 234 FC games averaging 94. He has the fastest century aka 100 of 22 balls, with 117 centuries and 400 scores for fun.

All this achieved with barely any safety equipment, Horrible bat quality, Horrible pitches that were damp and 90% of the time not even prepared and the games were played in a flood.

All while he had to deal with a world war and put a stop to things and go yesrs without playing games in comparison to today era where NZ after a few months of not playing international t20 looked like they'd never held a bat or ball in their life and got marked by afg and West indies.

How rubbish can the bowling reasonably be especially when Larwood was throwing chucking 170KPH baseball level throws at the batters body and head cause they weren't wearing any equipment and every bowler on that era had a habit of smashing bitten banana tampered balls at your face?

Indians need to stop gloating, the bowling wasn't rubbish, It was much much easier and unfair at said period and a few rubbish bowlers seen on tv ignoring the body line balls means nothing.

Bradman had no infrastructure and came from the same era as the rest, and had infinite more difficulties then anyone on the planet, And even if the narrative of everyone being a trundler which isn't true considering its more accurate to say that 30% were baseball throwing chuckers, a 100 of 22 balls is freakishly good in any era, especially with the horrible bat quality

Imagine Sachin playing in said era, Larwood would thrown a ball straight to his non helmet bhoota and broken his face. Yei halat thei 1920's aur 1930's mei.

Saeed ajmal, Shabbir ahmed etc would have loved that era lol

Bro I was joking haha.
I do put Bradman as the goat. I guess. No choice. He was well and truly above everyone. Although me personally I don't rate anyone prior to 2000 era cause cricket wasn't played professionally. So many semi pro teams before that era.

 

[TheSultan]

Because another ATG bowler Ashwin playing along side with him. He has to share wickets with him..So every match 4 fer max he can get....Ashwin usually takes 5 wickets.

Well, wasim, Waqar had to share with each other as well as mushy and saqlain later.

Marshall had to share with the other WI quicks. McGrath had to share with Warne etc etc.

That’s a weak excuse.

 

[mominsaigol]

Bro I was joking haha.
I do put Bradman as the goat. I guess. No choice. He was well and truly above everyone. Although me personally I don't rate anyone prior to 2000 era cause cricket wasn't played professionally. So many semi pro teams before that era.

Sorry my bad, but the argument that people are using such as Bradman never had the luxury od dealing with bunrah, Warne, Ncgrath, wasim like Sachin did need to realise that the argument goes both ways.

You can't assume bradman played qith trundlers with a modern bat and an iron man suit on batting paradise pitches.

Just like bradman never played Warne, Mcgrath etc, Sachin didn't play qith a bat that looked like a 3 year old threw it in a wood chipper.

Sachin didn't play on pitches that had your feet soaking wet and were damp beyond belief and left in such pitiful states.

Sachin never had to worry about money as cricket was mainstream in his era and it was his livelihood whereas bradman had to work and play other sports and make ends meet due to the war + cricket not being a multi million dollar sport.

Sachin didn't have to worry about his life. In that era, playing pull shots, Advancing down the crease like rohit sharma and many strokes weren't possible due to lack of safety equipment, if you edged it and it hit your helmet or body like it does today, the game wouldn't stop for your concussion check or a simple thumbs up from the batter, You'd be hospitalised or worse you'd be dead.

Sachin didn't have to worry about having plays stopped for months and years due t wars or political nonsense and had access to domestic while bradman at best could only play by himself in his own garage.

Sachin didn't have to worry about half the bowlers thinking cricket is baseball and shoving things into you, Larwood in this era would be unplayable because he just threw at you? He'd be banned ofcourse but that wasn't the case back then.

Even the bodyline, After an entire series, The officials knew they had to draw the line somewhere considering they'd already allow for damp rain flooded pitches, No safety, no bat quality, infinite baseball chucking, so now deliberate throwing was life threatening and half the aussie team was hospitilised. Death could have come hence they finally banned and put their foot down.

The argument goes both ways, Not just the whole well bradman didn't play wasim or mcgrath etc.

I'd like to see Sachin score a 100 of 22 with no coaching, no infrastructure, no safety equipment, horrific bat quality, damp pitches and constantly pausing games for years due to wars? See how silly it sounds?

Bradman in his era was next level, and his records aren't a joke and people undermining him on this thread is hilarious.

 

[giri26]

Well, wasim, Waqar had to share with each other as well as mushy and saqlain later.

Marshall had to share with the other WI quicks. McGrath had to share with Warne etc etc.

That’s a weak excuse.

Marshall had 22, Wasim had 25 and Waqar had 22. all of them had an average of 3-4 Tests per 5 wicket haul. Bumrah has similar rate of 3.7 Tests. In terms of 10 fers, all the greats had one in 20-25 Tests, yeah something Bumrah lags behind and I hope he does get that as well. So no Bumrah isn't doing worse than the other great bowlers you mentioned. We have a bowler with 520 Test wickets and another one with 300, when Shami plays then we have one with 230 wickets. So it is hard for one bowler to take 5 wickets so often. Even if you look at the WI quartet, Garner only had 7, Holding had 13 and Roberts had 11. So if a strong bowling unit normally it is not easy for all of them to have equal 5 wicket hauls, it is not going to happen. Bumrah has been playing a lot at home where he has Ashwin with 37 fifers and Jadeja with 13.

You do realise that after Imran retired, Pakistan's main two bowlers were Wasim and Waqar? They hardly had a competent thrid seamer before Shoaib burst into the scene in the late 90's. Yeah Aquib Javed (just 1 fifer) etc played but they weren't good enough, so Wasim and Waqar bowled a lot of overs which meant they had opportunity to get lots of fifers as well. Even when you see the support cast of Australia during McGrath's time Gillespie had just 8 fifers, Damien Fleming just 3, Kaps had 4 etc. Only McGrath and Warne took the bulk of the wickets. That is not the case with India where we currently at least in home conditions have two legends of the game who take loads of wickets but despite that Bumrah manages to hold his own and helps us win games. 10 fifers in 37 Tests is great and not having 10fer is the only hole in his record but I am okay with that if he keeps winning us games.

 

[Buffet]

Yeah I disagree, 600 is just an arbitrary number. Bumrah got to 400 with far more lethality than Wasim or Glenn.

Far more, why? I may agree on more but even then it's not that much more to over take them with just 400 international wickets.

 

[KP From India]

You're missing the point. Typical of Indian fans who ignore everything in order to glorify Sachin.

Bradman was born in an era where their was virtually no infrastructure, no coaching, no good bat quality, Hprrific pitches that were impossible to curate, Horrible drainage systems, No safety equipment etc.

Despite this he was miles ahead of anyone in his era despite being born and I repeat BEONG BORN IN THE EXACT SAME INFRASTRUCTURE.

Sachin on the other hand is born in a country with the greatest cricketing infrastructure in the world. Richest board, Even pre IPL era. His infrastructure gave him significant advantages over many other countries like Zimbabwe for obvious reasons. Only England and Australia compare however England and Australia don't have a superior infrastructure in cricketing sense but due to their historic sports culture + genetics they compete easily.

Despite this sachin's overall record isn't miles and miles ahead of others like people claim to be, he gets points for longevity.

I'd like to see Sachin avg 99 while being born in the 1930's with no coaches, no trainers, no advantages to cultivate his cricketing career ontop of a godamn world war being held where he has to take a plathero of frustratingly 2 to 5 year long breaks before he gets to play again. Heck if Sachin was born in Zimbabwe modern era he wouldn't be great due to lacking infrastructure.

Sachin is talented no doubt, infact he's the greatest player India has ever produced and other players who go through the same infrastructure + IPL aren't anywhere close, But theirs a strark contrast between the era Bradman was born in and what Sachin was born into.

Sachin being born in the 1930's would have been a footnote just like everyone else was.

Similarly if Bradman was born in sachin's era where he has access to the exact same structure Sachin has, He'd be miles and miles superior to anyone because you've taken a player who was already the best with no infrastructure and now given him the qorlds best infrastructure.

Don't think Bradman would have averaged 99 today against Murali, Warne, Ashwin in Ind, Boult, Wagner, Southee in NZ, Rabada, Pollock, Steyn against SA, or even against Broad, Anderson. Would still have been great and about 60 odd.
Let's agree to disagree.

 

[mominsaigol]

Don't think Bradman would have averaged 99 today against Murali, Warne, Ashwin in Ind, Boult, Wagner, Southee in NZ, Rabada, Pollock, Steyn against SA, or even against Broad, Anderson. Would still have been great and about 60 odd.
Let's agree to disagree.

I already answered this here

Sorry my bad, but the argument that people are using such as Bradman never had the luxury od dealing with bunrah, Warne, Ncgrath, wasim like Sachin did need to realise that the argument goes both ways.

You can't assume bradman played qith trundlers with a modern bat and an iron man suit on batting paradise pitches.

Just like bradman never played Warne, Mcgrath etc, Sachin didn't play qith a bat that looked like a 3 year old threw it in a wood chipper.

Sachin didn't play on pitches that had your feet soaking wet and were damp beyond belief and left in such pitiful states.

Sachin never had to worry about money as cricket was mainstream in his era and it was his livelihood whereas bradman had to work and play other sports and make ends meet due to the war + cricket not being a multi million dollar sport.

Sachin didn't have to worry about his life. In that era, playing pull shots, Advancing down the crease like rohit sharma and many strokes weren't possible due to lack of safety equipment, if you edged it and it hit your helmet or body like it does today, the game wouldn't stop for your concussion check or a simple thumbs up from the batter, You'd be hospitalised or worse you'd be dead.

Sachin didn't have to worry about having plays stopped for months and years due t wars or political nonsense and had access to domestic while bradman at best could only play by himself in his own garage.

Sachin didn't have to worry about half the bowlers thinking cricket is baseball and shoving things into you, Larwood in this era would be unplayable because he just threw at you? He'd be banned ofcourse but that wasn't the case back then.

Even the bodyline, After an entire series, The officials knew they had to draw the line somewhere considering they'd already allow for damp rain flooded pitches, No safety, no bat quality, infinite baseball chucking, so now deliberate throwing was life threatening and half the aussie team was hospitilised. Death could have come hence they finally banned and put their foot down.

The argument goes both ways, Not just the whole well bradman didn't play wasim or mcgrath etc.

I'd like to see Sachin score a 100 of 22 with no coaching, no infrastructure, no safety equipment, horrific bat quality, damp pitches and constantly pausing games for years due to wars? See how silly it sounds?

Bradman in his era was next level, and his records aren't a joke and people undermining him on this thread is hilarious.

^^ This was my response to said claim.

As I said you can't just say bradman never played wasim or mcgrath but then act like he also had perfect bat quality, and all the advantages that players later in his life had.

 

[KP From India]

It's 100 times easier to be outlier in sample size of 10K vs sample size of 1M.

One great cricketer among 10K world wide players will stand out by a big marign vs everyone else.

With exact same ratio, you will get 10 great players among 1M players and no one is going to stand out by a large margin.

These are not opinions but simple stats.


Sticking to facts, Bradman stood out among players a large margin when very few players were playing cricket professionally. He is an ATG in cricket and will be included in most ATG sides, but if some one choses to not include him due to not being tested against ATG bowlers then that's fine as well. I will have him in my ATG world XI.

No one is denying Bradman's greatness. Just that he didn't face variety of quality bowling all over the world. Not his fault though.

 

[mominsaigol]

No one is denying Bradman's greatness. Just that he didn't face variety of quality bowling all over the world. Not his fault though.

You realise Larwood is superior to Any bowler in history right? But he was understandably considered a disgraced hero turned villian and almost all his achievements are no longer considered valid?

That's because after the bodyline ban, Larwood was instructed to start bowling properly and as soon as he did his avg shot right through the roof despite the fact he averaged only 17 in nearly 300+ FC games?

The thing about Larwood was that in today's era he'd be banned instantly before he would have the chance to bowl even 1 ball, that's because he would wata throw the ball and English officials and everyone in the country allowed him to deapite many complaints.

He was literally bowling 170+kph baseball level wata throws making him the fastest × best line and length + best swing + best accuracy level bowler ever. Someone like mchrath and Bumrah were a joke to him.

However obviously it doesn't count due to the fact that his stupid bowling caused an uproar and in today's era it simply isn't possible. The line had to be drawn somewhere, During the bodyline series the issue was their was no equipment in that era.

Besides pads and gloves, No protection for your nether regions, no helmet, no padding no nothing, other bowlers were atleast bowling with a round arm action so sometimes they'd hit the body and other times not.

Larwood on the other hand was wata throwing it straight into your face, and the at that time concept of waist high no ball didn't exist.

Infact due to lack of safety and bat quality, playing wasit high delveires and pull shots was very very very difficult.

So they finally drew the line with Larwood eventually and after bpdyline he was trash as usual, because he cpuldnt bowl without throwing a wata into someone face or having that banana swing due to his deliveries.

Besides Bradman no one else could feasibly play Larwood for obvious reasons. The funny thing is, in fc his eco would have less then 5 had he began throwing wata's off the bat and not later on in his fc career where no one was averaging even 10 agaisnt him Besides bradman.

Lastly what you consider trundlers from those videos, please realise that those deliveries are mcgrath level balls considering those batters can't exactly pull , loft or time it to the boundary like they can with today's era bats, those bats don't have the power and the batters have to play with the extra element of safety and fear of their own life.

Yes Sachin can dispatch those casually, but I'd like to see him dispatch them with those specific bats, no helmet, no safety beyond his pads and gloves and pitches that are 100x worse them New York duento virtually zero curation and infinite dampness.

Even then Sachin would get wrecked by Larwood for obvious reasons if Larwood is allowed to play without getting banned.

 

[kron]

You realise Larwood is superior to Any bowler in history right? But he was understandably considered a disgraced hero turned villian and almost all his achievements are no longer considered valid?

That's because after the bodyline ban, Larwood was instructed to start bowling properly and as soon as he did his avg shot right through the roof despite the fact he averaged only 17 in nearly 300+ FC games?

The thing about Larwood was that in today's era he'd be banned instantly before he would have the chance to bowl even 1 ball, that's because he would wata throw the ball and English officials and everyone in the country allowed him to deapite many complaints.

He was literally bowling 170+kph baseball level wata throws making him the fastest × best line and length + best swing + best accuracy level bowler ever. Someone like mchrath and Bumrah were a joke to him.

However obviously it doesn't count due to the fact that his stupid bowling caused an uproar and in today's era it simply isn't possible. The line had to be drawn somewhere, During the bodyline series the issue was their was no equipment in that era.

Besides pads and gloves, No protection for your nether regions, no helmet, no padding no nothing, other bowlers were atleast bowling with a round arm action so sometimes they'd hit the body and other times not.

Larwood on the other hand was wata throwing it straight into your face, and the at that time concept of waist high no ball didn't exist.

Infact due to lack of safety and bat quality, playing wasit high delveires and pull shots was very very very difficult.

So they finally drew the line with Larwood eventually and after bpdyline he was trash as usual, because he cpuldnt bowl without throwing a wata into someone face or having that banana swing due to his deliveries.

Besides Bradman no one else could feasibly play Larwood for obvious reasons. The funny thing is, in fc his eco would have less then 5 had he began throwing wata's off the bat and not later on in his fc career where no one was averaging even 10 agaisnt him Besides bradman.

Lastly what you consider trundlers from those videos, please realise that those deliveries are mcgrath level balls considering those batters can't exactly pull , loft or time it to the boundary like they can with today's era bats, those bats don't have the power and the batters have to play with the extra element of safety and fear of their own life.

Yes Sachin can dispatch those casually, but I'd like to see him dispatch them with those specific bats, no helmet, no safety beyond his pads and gloves and pitches that are 100x worse them New York duento virtually zero curation and infinite dampness.

Even then Sachin would get wrecked by Larwood for obvious reasons if Larwood is allowed to play without getting banned.

sydney barnes i would say is goat from amateur era. larwood too yes.
semi pro era i would say amrbose etc.
pro era mcgrath and only mcgrath plus maybe steyn and wasim
in the future perhaps bumrah rabada and cummo

wildcard entry for shaheen.

 

[mominsaigol]

sydney barnes i would say is goat from amateur era. larwood too yes.
semi pro era i would say amrbose etc.
pro era mcgrath and only mcgrath plus maybe steyn and wasim
in the future perhaps bumrah rabada and cummo

wildcard entry for shaheen.

Larwood at peak is the biggest cheat and disgrace of that era. He got exposed post bodyline when he was asked to bowl properly.

I don't count his wata bowling as accurate and frankly speaking neither does icc or any cricketing nation now.

But if he was allowed to do his nonsense, then he'd be the best in any era. Even in this era where quality bats exist, the rule of no ball waist high, and proper safety gear, he'd still be bowling at 160+ with mcgrath level accuracy and no one would average more them 10-15 against him.

The reason why bradman managed a 40 to 50 avg against him while others avg less then 10, was because he was the only one who was willing to put his life on the line.

Larwood didn't expect that he'd play a pull shot and bradman got hit on the chest the most in that series and got injured badly but kept going, Every other batter ducked for fear that they'd break their jaw.

Similarly even when he started bowling line and length with accuracy, bradman was the only one who actually tried to beat him at his own game by disrupting his line and length, He'd sometimes walk like a quarter of the pitch and try to cross bat on the legside.

Everyone else was too fearful of their life to play him and some aussie batters deliberately just moved out of the way and let those wickets fall, because no way we're they gonna risk death.

Theirs a reason he was banned for both action and bodyline was banned altogether. Afterwards he got exposed badly, His avg from under 10 shot up all the way to 28 with every ton dick andharry butchering him left and right and he was forced tonretire.

In this era he'd get banned at gully level let alone club level.

Sydney Barnes is a goat and proper bowler. The reason I brought up Larwood is to dismiss the myth of Bradman playing crap bowlers.

He literally averaged 50+ against the biggest cheat of all time? With a toothpick bat?

 

[kron]

Harold larwood

Larwood at peak is the biggest cheat and disgrace of that era. He got exposed post bodyline when he was asked to bowl properly.

I don't count his wata bowling as accurate and frankly speaking neither does icc or any cricketing nation now.

But if he was allowed to do his nonsense, then he'd be the best in any era. Even in this era where quality bats exist, the rule of no ball waist high, and proper safety gear, he'd still be bowling at 160+ with mcgrath level accuracy and no one would average more them 10-15 against him.

The reason why bradman managed a 40 to 50 avg against him while others avg less then 10, was because he was the only one who was willing to put his life on the line.

Larwood didn't expect that he'd play a pull shot and bradman got hit on the chest the most in that series and got injured badly but kept going, Every other batter ducked for fear that they'd break their jaw.

Similarly even when he started bowling line and length with accuracy, bradman was the only one who actually tried to beat him at his own game by disrupting his line and length, He'd sometimes walk like a quarter of the pitch and try to cross bat on the legside.

Everyone else was too fearful of their life to play him and some aussie batters deliberately just moved out of the way and let those wickets fall, because no way we're they gonna risk death.

Theirs a reason he was banned for both action and bodyline was banned altogether. Afterwards he got exposed badly, His avg from under 10 shot up all the way to 28 with every ton dick andharry butchering him left and right and he was forced tonretire.

In this era he'd get banned at gully level let alone club level.

Sydney Barnes is a goat and proper bowler. The reason I brought up Larwood is to dismiss the myth of Bradman playing crap bowlers.

He literally averaged 50+ against the biggest cheat of all time? With a toothpick bat?

if you put it that way then you need to allow modern quicks to chuck and do all the dirty moves larwood did. imagine how lethal they would be. imagine if bumrah rabada cummins can chuck lmao

 

[KP From India]

Larwood at peak is the biggest cheat and disgrace of that era. He got exposed post bodyline when he was asked to bowl properly.

I don't count his wata bowling as accurate and frankly speaking neither does icc or any cricketing nation now.

But if he was allowed to do his nonsense, then he'd be the best in any era. Even in this era where quality bats exist, the rule of no ball waist high, and proper safety gear, he'd still be bowling at 160+ with mcgrath level accuracy and no one would average more them 10-15 against him.

The reason why bradman managed a 40 to 50 avg against him while others avg less then 10, was because he was the only one who was willing to put his life on the line.

Larwood didn't expect that he'd play a pull shot and bradman got hit on the chest the most in that series and got injured badly but kept going, Every other batter ducked for fear that they'd break their jaw.

Similarly even when he started bowling line and length with accuracy, bradman was the only one who actually tried to beat him at his own game by disrupting his line and length, He'd sometimes walk like a quarter of the pitch and try to cross bat on the legside.

Everyone else was too fearful of their life to play him and some aussie batters deliberately just moved out of the way and let those wickets fall, because no way we're they gonna risk death.

Theirs a reason he was banned for both action and bodyline was banned altogether. Afterwards he got exposed badly, His avg from under 10 shot up all the way to 28 with every ton dick andharry butchering him left and right and he was forced tonretire.

In this era he'd get banned at gully level let alone club level.

Sydney Barnes is a goat and proper bowler. The reason I brought up Larwood is to dismiss the myth of Bradman playing crap bowlers.

He literally averaged 50+ against the biggest cheat of all time? With a toothpick bat?

I would not call that Cricket then.

 

[Hitman]

This was my entire point.

Sachin for me is the greatest odi batter of all time. He's no 1 and besides maybe viv Richards but I do think sachin is better. And sachin is top 5 test batters of all time for me.

I just don't like calling him the God of cricket because I don't think he's massively above everyone and I believe many are in his class although he's still superior no doubt.

The term Little Master is more accurate for him.

Based of the body line footage on YouTube, not a single batter, not even sachin could have played that version of Larwood baseball throwing 170Kph deliveries to your chest and face with no helmet or safety equipment. Even when he wasnt committing to bodyline, he was bowling with mcgrath level accuracy but at the speed of 160+. And understandable cause he's virtually throwing a wata which would have been banned off the bat in this era.

Even in this era no one on the planet would average even 10 against that even with today's equipment? Let alone bradman averaging 50 and handling Larwood without too much difficulty with a toothpick Bat?

That's why the God of cricket is bradman for me. But it's still an insane feat for sachin. The fact we're talking about sachin next to the greatest superhuman batter of all time where any other comparison besides viv and a few other test greats would be seen clownworthy is a testament to how good sachin is in prime.

You haven't been watching the game for a long time, but in the mean time you have studied quite some history of the game. I too have studied a lot of history but unfortunately it doesn't go beyond the 70's. Anything beyond that doesn't interest me apart from one man, the man who is regarded as the greatest cricketer of all time, the great Sir Garfield Sobbers.​

 

[mominsaigol]

I would not call that Cricket then.

The point was that during bodyline, Not a single Aussie batter averaged 10 against him, tbh, not a single batter even averaged 6.

In fc he has an avg of 17 with an eco of 2 but the truth Is, his peak is even less then 10 because he really rode the train.

He's a massive disgrace to English cricket in general after his ban, but their isnt a single batter in any era that can play his cheat version for obvious reasons which is why none of his records are ever listed as measurements cause they were all taken down and way before icc even came around.

Bradman averaged 50 againat that? With a toothpick bat? So I don't get what you mean by he didn't face quality when he faced the biggest cheat of all time?

 

[mominsaigol]

You haven't been watching the game for a long time, but in the mean time you have studied quite some history of the game. I too have studied a lot of history but unfortunately it doesn't go beyond the 70's. Anything beyond that doesn't interest me apart from one man, the man who is regarded as the greatest cricketer of all time, the great Sir Garfield Sobbers.​

I've been watching for 13 years now but I have watched other eras 100%.

However you're right in that unlike you who was actually alive to witness that era and know about those said vibes of said era, I don't bear that luxury.

I can only know about their playing style and matches that they've played but I cannot know anything about the vibes of said era.

 

[Hitman]

I've been watching for 13 years now but I have watched other eras 100%.

However you're right in that unlike you who was actually alive to witness that era and know about those said vibes of said era, I don't bear that luxury.

I can only know about their playing style and matches that they've played but I cannot know anything about the vibes of said era.

One advise, since you like studying the game's history, try reading autobiographies of ex cricketers. Trust me, you'll learn a hell lot more than you learn by reading articles on the web. Start with one, and you'll be amazed at how quick you get addicted to reading one after the other. Try reading the one's of cricketers from the 70's, 80's and the 90's.​

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Theirs a difference. Bradman was also born in the exact same era and no one in his era even averaged 50 let alone 99.

He isn't a time traveller, he's born in that era with the same infrastructure, same talent pool, same pitches, same bats and what not.

Reason he's a God of cricket is because he genuinely was superior to everyone in his era in every metric whereas Sachin was not.

Heck one trait of Bradman was that he single handidely won games without the need for any input whereas Sachin despite all his talents led India into the ground during his captaincy stint. Which clearly shows that while he's a gun batter, Ultimately he has his limitations as he alone is not capable of outbatting the opposition to the point that bowling becomes a non factor.

Bradman is the real GOAT of cricket for me but the point about no other batsman averaging 50+ is wrong, quite a few averaged above 50 and some even averages above 60 in the same era.

Hammond averaged 58
Len Hutton averaged 57
Hobbs averaged 57
Headly aceraged 61
Paynter averaged 60
There are many more

 

[Hitman]

Bradman is the real GOAT of cricket for me but the point about no other batsman averaging 50+ is wrong, quite a few averaged above 50 and some even averages above 60 in the same era.

Hammond averaged 58
Len Hutton averaged 57
Hobbs averaged 57
Headly aceraged 61
Paynter averaged 60
There are many more

Jack Hobbs was another one who along with Don Bradman set the batting standards for the post war era.

 

[mominsaigol]

One advise, since you like studying the game's history, try reading autobiographies of ex cricketers. Trust me, you'll learn a hell lot more than you learn by reading articles on the web. Start with one, and you'll be amazed at how quick you get addicted to reading one after the other. Try reading the one's of cricketers from the 70's, 80's and the 90's.​

Done, I will.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

@mominsaigol where did you get this Larwood bowling watta at 160 kph tidbit?

Larwood was not a chucker, bodyline is a tactic, he bowled short targeting the body and Jardine the captain set a field to maximise the output.

He wasn’t bowling watta, also he was nowhere near 160 kph, I don’t get where you procure all this info from

 

[mominsaigol]

Bradman is the real GOAT of cricket for me but the point about no other batsman averaging 50+ is wrong, quite a few averaged above 50 and some even averages above 60 in the same era.

Hammond averaged 58
Len Hutton averaged 57
Hobbs averaged 57
Headly aceraged 61
Paynter averaged 60
There are many more

You're correct. And I retract what I said, However my main point was that Bradman was a next gen superman.

Their isnt a single batter who could even avg 10 againat Larwood during the bodyline series except Bradman, That cheat engine version of Larwood is unplayable in any era for obvious reasons.

The thing about people of the past, those born in 1900's is that they are genetically superior to the people born now.

For example an 18 year old from the 1900's looks like a 27 to 30 year old and has the body and pysique of one, whereas in today's era an 18 year old looks like a kid and looks very young, and that's because thanks to modern medicine, modern tech, we humans now age slower and it's scientifically backed.

An 18 year old from the 1900's would smack an 18 year old in today's era in a fight.

Similarly aussies from 1900's were all genetically inclined to be next level beasts cause their the direct successors to English prisoners who were sent to the land to die, but managed to single handidely turn a death sentence in an powerhouse economy and country.

It's the same people who were able to fight an entire world war with grit and resolve whereas in today's era, humans no longer have that resolve to fight to such an extent and obsessively rely on advanced weaponry.

Don Bradman and players from that era are also genetically more advanced then today's humans in general.

The better the technology and equipment and medicine the more easily our bodies adapt to such an era but we lack the grit and resolve and strength of people from the past.

In the same way a stray cat usually knocks the daylights out of a house cat because the stray cat has had to survive and hunt while a pet cat has the need to be cuddled at home with luxury we're mostly the same.

That era had advanced humans and their players despite the insane lack of resources were able to develop into beasts. But those types of players are not possible now.

Even Sachin would be a total noob had he not had an amazing infrastructure, coaching and 24 years of consistently playing + muscle memory to become great.

Sachin and no one else can just stop play for years due to a world war and then come back after years of zero practise ans just casually perform as they never left still averaging 50 and in bradman's case 99.

Those era's aren't folklore myths, it's a known fact that people of the past are genetically superior due to their harsh environment compared to our current era where we're living in air conditioning and online worlds.

 

[mominsaigol]

@mominsaigol where did you get this Larwood bowling watta at 160 kph tidbit?

Larwood was not a chucker, bodyline is a tactic, he bowled short targeting the body and Jardine the captain set a field to maximise the output.

He wasn’t bowling watta, also he was nowhere near 160 kph, I don’t get where you procure all this info from

Yes he was, but I'll answer in a bit, need to head out for a bit. He's the biggest cheat of all time.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Thread is not about Sachin or Bradman. No more irrelevant posts now. Thanks

 

[BouncerGuy]

Thread is about Bumrah

 

[kron]

@mominsaigol where did you get this Larwood bowling watta at 160 kph tidbit?

Larwood was not a chucker, bodyline is a tactic, he bowled short targeting the body and Jardine the captain set a field to maximise the output.

He wasn’t bowling watta, also he was nowhere near 160 kph, I don’t get where you procure all this info from

larwood is a midget. he would maybe bowl 150 i guess with chucking. then let bumrah cummins rabada chuck too. they will probably cross 160

 

[kron]

Thread is about Bumrah

yea if we are talking about other players, make sure we link it back to bumrah. conclusion of the paragraph should relate to bumrah.

 

[Red-Indian]

Can we build a temple to Bumrah?

Nothing of a pitch, no assistance for quicks and he takes 6 wickets actually improving his average.

 

[Unleashed]

He's easily the best in the world and a generational pace bowler.

Only idiots would deny it, so naturally there are quite a lot here who are denying it.

 

[Devadwal]

Bumrah against Bangladesh in two test matches series

2 match ,11 wickets with 12.8 AVG.

Before this series Bumrah test wickets were 159 so he has taken 170 wickets in test so far .

After this cycle he can cross 200 test wickets ( 3 test vs NZ ,5 vs Australia and one WTC final if India qualified)

 

[TheSultan]

Marshall had 22, Wasim had 25 and Waqar had 22. all of them had an average of 3-4 Tests per 5 wicket haul. Bumrah has similar rate of 3.7 Tests. In terms of 10 fers, all the greats had one in 20-25 Tests, yeah something Bumrah lags behind and I hope he does get that as well. So no Bumrah isn't doing worse than the other great bowlers you mentioned. We have a bowler with 520 Test wickets and another one with 300, when Shami plays then we have one with 230 wickets. So it is hard for one bowler to take 5 wickets so often. Even if you look at the WI quartet, Garner only had 7, Holding had 13 and Roberts had 11. So if a strong bowling unit normally it is not easy for all of them to have equal 5 wicket hauls, it is not going to happen. Bumrah has been playing a lot at home where he has Ashwin with 37 fifers and Jadeja with 13.

You do realise that after Imran retired, Pakistan's main two bowlers were Wasim and Waqar? They hardly had a competent thrid seamer before Shoaib burst into the scene in the late 90's. Yeah Aquib Javed (just 1 fifer) etc played but they weren't good enough, so Wasim and Waqar bowled a lot of overs which meant they had opportunity to get lots of fifers as well. Even when you see the support cast of Australia during McGrath's time Gillespie had just 8 fifers, Damien Fleming just 3, Kaps had 4 etc. Only McGrath and Warne took the bulk of the wickets. That is not the case with India where we currently at least in home conditions have two legends of the game who take loads of wickets but despite that Bumrah manages to hold his own and helps us win games. 10 fifers in 37 Tests is great and not having 10fer is the only hole in his record but I am okay with that if he keeps winning us games.

Bumrah’s record isn’t bad and he’s obv bowled well. I don’t have a problem with people celebrating that. But you’re the ones calling him GOAT. So please spare me that nonsense and just tell me you are happy with his bowling.

 

[Josh]

Jasprit Bumrah in India in Tests
Tests - 10
Wickets - 44
Avg - 15.47
Sr - 32.4

Unreal numbers in India where most pacers struggle.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Bumrah with the old ball in home Tests:

Overs: 103.4
Wickets: 30
Avg: 10.03
SR: 20.73
ER: 2.9
*overs 26 to 80

 

[kron]

He's easily the best in the world and a generational pace bowler.

Only idiots would deny it, so naturally there are quite a lot here who are denying it.

No 5'7 larwood is the goat.

 

[kron]

S

Bumrah with the old ball in home Tests:

Overs: 103.4
Wickets: 30
Avg: 10.03
SR: 20.73
ER: 2.9
*overs 26 to 80se

Seems better with the old ball and semi old ball.
Reverse too.

But new ball his average is around 20 i believe. Higher. Something to work on at home.

 

[Sir Alex]

S


Seems better with the old ball and semi old ball.
Reverse too.

But new ball his average is around 20 i believe. Higher. Something to work on at home.

Hehe his new ball avg is still better than most around

 

[kron]

Hehe his new ball avg is still better than most around

Oh no. I wasn't being critical at all in anyway. He is the cream of the crop.
Legendary player. I mean new ball ability is literally the only thing left for him to develop really. Which itself is top tier compared to almost everyone. That's how good he is. But yea I reckon if he slightly improves with the new ball to match his old and semi ball skills then he yea it is the perfect bowler. I mean he is near perfect anyway.

 

[RyanRyan10]

S


Seems better with the old ball and semi old ball.
Reverse too.

But new ball his average is around 20 i believe. Higher. Something to work on at home.

27

 

[RyanRyan10]

Marshall had 22, Wasim had 25 and Waqar had 22. all of them had an average of 3-4 Tests per 5 wicket haul. Bumrah has similar rate of 3.7 Tests. In terms of 10 fers, all the greats had one in 20-25 Tests, yeah something Bumrah lags behind and I hope he does get that as well. So no Bumrah isn't doing worse than the other great bowlers you mentioned. We have a bowler with 520 Test wickets and another one with 300, when Shami plays then we have one with 230 wickets. So it is hard for one bowler to take 5 wickets so often. Even if you look at the WI quartet, Garner only had 7, Holding had 13 and Roberts had 11. So if a strong bowling unit normally it is not easy for all of them to have equal 5 wicket hauls, it is not going to happen. Bumrah has been playing a lot at home where he has Ashwin with 37 fifers and Jadeja with 13.

You do realise that after Imran retired, Pakistan's main two bowlers were Wasim and Waqar? They hardly had a competent thrid seamer before Shoaib burst into the scene in the late 90's. Yeah Aquib Javed (just 1 fifer) etc played but they weren't good enough, so Wasim and Waqar bowled a lot of overs which meant they had opportunity to get lots of fifers as well. Even when you see the support cast of Australia during McGrath's time Gillespie had just 8 fifers, Damien Fleming just 3, Kaps had 4 etc. Only McGrath and Warne took the bulk of the wickets. That is not the case with India where we currently at least in home conditions have two legends of the game who take loads of wickets but despite that Bumrah manages to hold his own and helps us win games. 10 fifers in 37 Tests is great and not having 10fer is the only hole in his record but I am okay with that if he keeps winning us games.

Is the same criteria of 5fers applicable for bowlers like Umesh? Or we will need some quantum mechanics equation to understand that he was greater than his numbers suggest?

 

[RyanRyan10]

Bumrah’s record isn’t bad and he’s obv bowled well. I don’t have a problem with people celebrating that. But you’re the ones calling him GOAT. So please spare me that nonsense and just tell me you are happy with his bowling.

There is only one poster user who frequently makes claims of Bumrah being the GOAT without providing any valid arguments or presenting any stats. You should chill out a bit.

 

[TheSultan]

There is only one poster user who frequently makes claims of Bumrah being the GOAT without providing any valid arguments or presenting any stats. You should chill out a bit.

I’m chilled bro - I’m just saying if someone wants to present him as a GOAT, then show me some GOAT performances.

 

[Mamoon]

Kohlis career isn't finished yet. He is likely to finish in 50s.

Sobers and Viv avgd how much in NZ?

Inzamam and Yousuf had how many centuries in SA and Australia? Yousuf avgd how many in SL or India? Kohli wipes the floor with them.

Younis Khan is a test cricket great? He didn't play in Australia and SA for 6-7 years. Still struggled in SA.

Sangakkara avgd in 30s in India SA and WI. But he is great and Kohli is struggling.

Pakistanis wrote of Tendulkar in mid 2000s, we know how that ended.

Neither Sangakkara nor Younis struggled to finish their careers with 50+ average.

Kohli is nothing special in Test cricket and nowhere near great. Great Test cricketers don’t struggle for 65-70% of their Test careers like Kohli has.

He has played 14 years of Test cricket. Out of these 14 years, he has not been great for about 9-10 years.

If he doesn’t perform anything special in the last couple of years, there is absolutely no way he has a superior Test legacy than Sangakkara and Younis or even Inzamam and Yousuf.

By 2019, he looked like someone who was going to surpass Tendulkar and Lara even in the Test format but five years later, he is not even in the same universe. That is how much his Test career has stalled.

 

[Red-Indian]

There is only one poster user who frequently makes claims of Bumrah being the GOAT without providing any valid arguments or presenting any stats. You should chill out a bit.

Agreed. Bumrah's steadily working himself into being talked about in the same breath as the top tier of bowlers all-time: Marshall, Wasim, McGrath, Ambrose. He'll move up above the next level of bowlers like Steyn, Waqar, Donald, Cummins if he keeps this up.

Fast bowling doesn't have a clear standout like Bradman in batting so it's tiers for me.

 

[Hellion]

In test: Marshall, McGrath, Steyn, Wasim, Donald, Hadlee
In ODI: McGrath, Wasim
In T20: No one

That's individually in different formats and you can argue for more names but no need to list them. But I will rank these names ahead for sure right now. Taking two formats, McGrath and Wasim are ahead of him. It's rare to be that good in all formats and Bumrah is indeed gun in all three formats, but we can't hold T20 against McGrath and Wasim due to different era.

Currently at 400 international wickets with a very high impact. Once gets into 600-700 then can be a contender for GOAT. Not now. No way he is GOAT with 400 international wickets.

I would add a few more. Ambrose as a Test bowler. Heck even Cummins may be better by the end of their careers.

In ODIs.

Lee, Starc , Donald, Garner, Holding were exceptional ODI bowlers in their respective eras and apart from Donald were all World Cup winners.

Bumrah may be the greatest 3 formats bowler though.

 

[jeetu]

Waqar's first 38 test vs Bumrah's.

Mat	Waq.Wkts	Waq.Avg	Waq.Econ	Waq.SR	Waq.5W	Bum.Wkts	Bum..Avg	Bum..Econ	Bum.SR	Bum.5W
1​	4​	22.75​	4.33​	31.5​	0​	4​	28​	3.69​	45.5​	0​
2​	6​	39.5​	4.08​	58​	0​	7​	34.57​	3.34​	62​	0​
3​	6​	55.33​	3.6​	92​	0​	14​	25.21​	3.14​	48​	1​
4​	9​	48.88​	3.33​	88​	0​	21​	22.61​	3.09​	43.8​	2​
5​	10​	46.1​	3.26​	84.6​	0​	25​	22.88​	2.97​	46.2​	2​
6​	17​	31.76​	3.02​	63​	0​	28​	25.57​	2.91​	52.6​	2​
7​	27​	23.92​	2.79​	51.4​	1​	34​	24.44​	2.83​	51.7​	2​
8​	39​	19.89​	2.71​	43.9​	3​	39​	23.66​	2.67​	53​	2​
9​	48​	18.66​	2.75​	40.5​	4​	48​	21.02​	2.65​	47.4​	3​
10​	53​	18.54​	2.81​	39.5​	5​	49​	21.89​	2.66​	49.3​	3​
11​	55​	19.49​	2.86​	40.8​	5​	55​	20.63​	2.64​	46.7​	4​
12​	62​	19.33​	2.85​	40.6​	6​	62​	19.24​	2.64​	43.7​	5​
13​	62​	19.33​	2.85​	40.6​	6​	63​	20.34​	2.67​	45.5​	5​
14​	71​	19.02​	2.94​	38.7​	7​	68​	20.33​	2.69​	45.3​	5​
15​	72​	20.09​	3​	40.1​	7​	70​	20.88​	2.69​	46.4​	5​
16​	79​	19.97​	3.05​	39.2​	8​	76​	20.68​	2.68​	46.1​	5​
17​	80​	20.92​	3.05​	41.1​	8​	79​	21.59​	2.7​	47.9​	5​
18​	87​	20.9​	3.08​	40.7​	9​	83​	21.87​	2.69​	48.6​	5​
19​	93​	20.51​	3.05​	40.2​	10​	83​	22.1​	2.7​	49​	5​
20​	102​	19.5​	2.98​	39.1​	11​	83​	23.21​	2.69​	51.7​	5​
21​	108​	19.57​	3.02​	38.8​	11​	92​	22.14​	2.69​	49.2​	6​
22​	112​	20.05​	3.09​	38.8​	11​	95​	22.62​	2.69​	50.3​	6​
23​	121​	19.61​	3.1​	37.9​	12​	97​	22.76​	2.68​	50.9​	6​
24​	134​	18.71​	3.05​	36.7​	14​	101​	22.79​	2.65​	51.4​	6​
25​	143​	18.5​	3.07​	36.1​	15​	106​	22.33​	2.65​	50.5​	6​
26​	148​	18.55​	3.06​	36.2​	16​	107​	23.24​	2.67​	52.2​	6​
27​	154​	18.35​	3.07​	35.8​	16​	113​	22.85​	2.65​	51.5​	7​
28​	159​	18.79​	3.08​	36.5​	16​	115​	22.83​	2.65​	51.6​	7​
29​	166​	18.98​	3.1​	36.6​	17​	123​	21.73​	2.65​	49.2​	8​
30​	169​	19.3​	3.14​	36.7​	17​	128​	21.99​	2.69​	48.9​	8​
31​	180​	18.78​	3.16​	35.6​	19​	132​	21.84​	2.69​	48.6​	8​
32​	187​	18.85​	3.18​	35.4​	19​	140​	21.21​	2.71​	46.8​	9​
33​	190​	19.15​	3.18​	36​	19​	146​	20.81​	2.71​	45.9​	9​
34​	191​	19.5​	3.2​	36.5​	19​	155​	20.19​	2.71​	44.5​	10​
35​	194​	19.72​	3.2​	36.8​	19​	157​	20.39​	2.72​	44.8​	10​
36​	196​	20.14​	3.21​	37.6​	19​	159​	20.69​	2.74​	45.1​	10​
37​	199​	20.04​	3.19​	37.5​	19​	164​	20.51​	2.76​	44.5​	10​
38​	200​	20.61​	3.19​	38.6​	19​	170​	20.18​	2.75​	43.9​	10​

 

[kron]

Agreed. Bumrah's steadily working himself into being talked about in the same breath as the top tier of bowlers all-time: Marshall, Wasim, McGrath, Ambrose. He'll move up above the next level of bowlers like Steyn, Waqar, Donald, Cummins if he keeps this up.

Fast bowling doesn't have a clear standout like Bradman in batting so it's tiers for me.

Steyn should be the top list tbh. But yes bumrah is that second bracket at the moment.

 

[Red-Indian]

Steyn should be the top list tbh. But yes bumrah is that second bracket at the moment.

Yes Steyn has a claim. His bowling in India is matched by very few. I think it's only in England that he really struggled.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Waqar's first 38 test vs Bumrah's.

Mat	Waq.Wkts	Waq.Avg	Waq.Econ	Waq.SR	Waq.5W	Bum.Wkts	Bum..Avg	Bum..Econ	Bum.SR	Bum.5W
1​	4​	22.75​	4.33​	31.5​	0​	4​	28​	3.69​	45.5​	0​
2​	6​	39.5​	4.08​	58​	0​	7​	34.57​	3.34​	62​	0​
3​	6​	55.33​	3.6​	92​	0​	14​	25.21​	3.14​	48​	1​
4​	9​	48.88​	3.33​	88​	0​	21​	22.61​	3.09​	43.8​	2​
5​	10​	46.1​	3.26​	84.6​	0​	25​	22.88​	2.97​	46.2​	2​
6​	17​	31.76​	3.02​	63​	0​	28​	25.57​	2.91​	52.6​	2​
7​	27​	23.92​	2.79​	51.4​	1​	34​	24.44​	2.83​	51.7​	2​
8​	39​	19.89​	2.71​	43.9​	3​	39​	23.66​	2.67​	53​	2​
9​	48​	18.66​	2.75​	40.5​	4​	48​	21.02​	2.65​	47.4​	3​
10​	53​	18.54​	2.81​	39.5​	5​	49​	21.89​	2.66​	49.3​	3​
11​	55​	19.49​	2.86​	40.8​	5​	55​	20.63​	2.64​	46.7​	4​
12​	62​	19.33​	2.85​	40.6​	6​	62​	19.24​	2.64​	43.7​	5​
13​	62​	19.33​	2.85​	40.6​	6​	63​	20.34​	2.67​	45.5​	5​
14​	71​	19.02​	2.94​	38.7​	7​	68​	20.33​	2.69​	45.3​	5​
15​	72​	20.09​	3​	40.1​	7​	70​	20.88​	2.69​	46.4​	5​
16​	79​	19.97​	3.05​	39.2​	8​	76​	20.68​	2.68​	46.1​	5​
17​	80​	20.92​	3.05​	41.1​	8​	79​	21.59​	2.7​	47.9​	5​
18​	87​	20.9​	3.08​	40.7​	9​	83​	21.87​	2.69​	48.6​	5​
19​	93​	20.51​	3.05​	40.2​	10​	83​	22.1​	2.7​	49​	5​
20​	102​	19.5​	2.98​	39.1​	11​	83​	23.21​	2.69​	51.7​	5​
21​	108​	19.57​	3.02​	38.8​	11​	92​	22.14​	2.69​	49.2​	6​
22​	112​	20.05​	3.09​	38.8​	11​	95​	22.62​	2.69​	50.3​	6​
23​	121​	19.61​	3.1​	37.9​	12​	97​	22.76​	2.68​	50.9​	6​
24​	134​	18.71​	3.05​	36.7​	14​	101​	22.79​	2.65​	51.4​	6​
25​	143​	18.5​	3.07​	36.1​	15​	106​	22.33​	2.65​	50.5​	6​
26​	148​	18.55​	3.06​	36.2​	16​	107​	23.24​	2.67​	52.2​	6​
27​	154​	18.35​	3.07​	35.8​	16​	113​	22.85​	2.65​	51.5​	7​
28​	159​	18.79​	3.08​	36.5​	16​	115​	22.83​	2.65​	51.6​	7​
29​	166​	18.98​	3.1​	36.6​	17​	123​	21.73​	2.65​	49.2​	8​
30​	169​	19.3​	3.14​	36.7​	17​	128​	21.99​	2.69​	48.9​	8​
31​	180​	18.78​	3.16​	35.6​	19​	132​	21.84​	2.69​	48.6​	8​
32​	187​	18.85​	3.18​	35.4​	19​	140​	21.21​	2.71​	46.8​	9​
33​	190​	19.15​	3.18​	36​	19​	146​	20.81​	2.71​	45.9​	9​
34​	191​	19.5​	3.2​	36.5​	19​	155​	20.19​	2.71​	44.5​	10​
35​	194​	19.72​	3.2​	36.8​	19​	157​	20.39​	2.72​	44.8​	10​
36​	196​	20.14​	3.21​	37.6​	19​	159​	20.69​	2.74​	45.1​	10​
37​	199​	20.04​	3.19​	37.5​	19​	164​	20.51​	2.76​	44.5​	10​
38​	200​	20.61​	3.19​	38.6​	19​	170​	20.18​	2.75​	43.9​	10​

crazy strike rate of waqar younis. The averages are almost the same. Look at the wickets. Waqar was a beast.

 

[kron]

Yes Steyn has a claim. His bowling in India is matched by very few. I think it's only in England that he really struggled.

Don't want to sully his rep but I heard reports of steyn tampering with the ball in rhe 2010 series.

But even still quality bowler in India. That should propel him to the top bracket list.

I do feel bunrah is the better bowler. Whether bumrah will be able to play 60 to 70 tests matches I don't know but skill wise bumrah has it all. Except new ball swing like Anderson.